Is North Korea's artillery really the strongest and most threatening part of their military force?Of course, after nuclear weapons (which are probably not yet in such an advanced state...)Can they really destroy Seoul in just 1 hour with thousands of artillery pieces?
>>61973902no
>>61973902maybe
Seoul is a very poorly positioned city.
You have a lot of mrls and counter battery radars >>61973905Ypu don't >>61973909
>>61973902>Can they really destroy Seoul in just 1 hour with thousands of artillery pieces?No. Seoul is like 50km away from the DMZ putting it out of reach of most Soviet style 152/122mm guns. Some of the North Korea bigger guns can reach it but those would be prime targets for South Korean and US counter-battery fire.
>>61973902Does it really matter? Wouldn’t really any active aggression of North Korea against South Korea end up in virtually assuring that the North Korean state ceases to exist?
>>61973958When Russia invaded Ukraine, the world knew this would happen because of troops movement and the escalation of their rhetoric and propaganda.But with North Korea, this is way shadier.Their troops are ALREADY positioned at the border for many years and every week they say some shit about destroying their enemies.A preemptive strike may be possible with intel from intelligence agencies but how will you sell this story for the world if the US/ROK attack first and unprovoked to the eyes of the world?Remember what shitshow was Iraq.Even so, the border is too big for all artillery to be destroyed before a lot of innocent people die in South Korea.
>>61974025>>61974025>but how will you sell this story for the world if the US/ROK attack first and unprovoked to the eyes of the world?You answered your own question.>every week they say some shit about destroying their enemies.The real answer is that nobody really gives a shit about hermit kingdoms who want to stay on the dictatorship train and the wrong side of history.Not even other dictators.What does bestkorea do for anyone?Even China wouldn't be inconvenienced by expanding the DMZ no-man's-land right to their border.
>>61973902This propaganda piece is kinda good because it doesn't fall into the meme trap of making your enemy look cool or threatening. That said, nobody really has a right to brag about shit regarding that war. Nobody got what they really wanted.
>>61973902>Can they really destroy Seoul in just 1 hour with thousands of artillery pieces?No,The US Air Force 1. Exists2. Has TOTAL air superiority over the North Korea (which still uses jet fighters from the 1950s)3. Has had 70 years to map every gun emplacement on the Korean PeninsulaThe second hostilities start, the USAF sweeps in and starts annihilating North Korean artillery batteries before most of them even receive orders to commence firing.
>>61973902> Can they really destroy Seoul in just 1 hour with thousands of artillery pieces?No
>>61973996>counter-battery fireWe are talking about the country that to this day fields worse GBAD than Iraq did in 91'. South alone has more than enough capacity to reach complete and uncontested air dominance. In case of any hostilities nork casualties would be limited only by physical amount of how much ordinance South can drop per given unit of time, and no amount of norkshill cope would change that.>>61974025>muh spooky gooks>muh not like russia Main difference between them is that by February 2022 russia (still) had real armed forces, with heavy mechanization full of western technology (that was still sold to them well into the war) and trained personnel to man that all. Today, use of t-50s by russians causes hysterical laughs from observers, but for norks that's their main fucking platform basically, they start from a point to where russia was falling for years. Norkia is like a smaller, malnourished and limp sibling of russia, and it shows, considering they are the only ones who agreed to be buddies-buddies with each other.
>>61973902Most of North Korea's artillery can only hit the outskirts of Seoul when using RAPs, and this is if they are positioned right on the border which is unlikely.Only the M-1978 Koksan can reasonably hit Seoul with standard shells.Most of the damage will actually be done with Rockets, TBMs, and cruise missiles.
>>61974025The army isn't all sat at the DMZ training and preparing for war. The bulk is dispersed around the country being used as a labor force, some is being used as border, garrison and coast guards etc, and the rest is sitting in the general region between Pyongyang and the DMZ. They'd still need to do an obvious moving up to attack with a large force.
>>61973902If you include rocket artillery then absolutely yes.
>>61974103>This propaganda piece is kinda good because it doesn't fall into the meme trap of making your enemy look cool or threatening.This had me thinking... Why this happens? And what examples there is of this?
>>61973902>Is North Korea's artillery really the strongest and most threatening part of their military force?yes
BEST KOREAN ARTILLERY IS LED BY GODTHE HIGH SPEED KPOP CARGO CULTIST FEARS THE KOKSAN
>>61973902>average gook when lost shitload of people, resources and few km of land in ground invasion of neighbor county >average mutt when killed shitload of gooks and securing your ally across the ocean more territory than they started with in defensive war, but stupid hippie gay pacifist communist politicians didn't let you use nukes (aka fun bombs)
>>61974142>The US Air Force>1. ExistsLost hard and I dont know why. Best Koreans stay seething
>>61974142You would have to conduct a SEAD campaign first desu; even if you didn't, North Korea has enough gun emplacements that it would take a while. And even if you could wipe them out in a few days, that's enough time for them to lob a lot of shells out into highly populated areas.
>>61974774… and defacto ending NK. There’s no scenario where they start shooting and aren’t immediately fucked.
>>61974351Worst Koreans will tell you they don't want a visit from the mighty Nork Kok, HOWEVER:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiJd_d8I-iE
>>61974774>SEADSay that to the f117s that bombed baghdad. 1 b2 bomber would be able to take out 80 targets in a single run and be completely untouched.
>>61973902what's the time on target for MLRS?
>>61974142The question isn't still North Korea survive, it's how much damage will they do before they're killed.
>>61974774The Norks literally have NOTHING that will stop South Korea from conducting SEAD, let alone America.
>>61975195Besides the many thousands of missiles that can hit every airbase in the south and all the way to guam? Aircraft don't work so good when their bases are exploding anon.
>>61973902>Can they really destroy Seoul in just 1 hour with thousands of artillery pieces?No. Stop believing this bullshit. I'll explain it to you right now.This meme that North Korea could level all of Seoul with thousands of artillery is a lie. Out of all the artillery pieces that North Korea has, only a fraction can reach Seoul city centre. The rest hit 'Seoul' as in the outskirts. If North Korea, right now, launched an unprovoked and surprise artillery attack, the estimated casualties would 30,000-50,000. Huge, but not massive. Why wouldn't it be? Because, as said, the vast majority of the population is in the centre, not outskirts. Now, after a few salvos, South Korean and American forces return fire, on pre-sighted and pre-known positions of Nork artillery. Aircraft are launched etc etc. Any sustained barrage is finished quickly. Now, the Norks know this, so much so they only give each piece around 5 rounds, because they assume they'll be dead before they fire a 6th.So, why doesn't North Korea do it? Well ignoring it would do very little as the South Koreans have military drills and hundreds of bunkers for this exact reason... Chances are Norks would hit Chinese civilians in Seoul and that really wouldn't be a good idea for Norks.>w-w-well they're allied with Russia now!And they'd kill Russians too. I doubt Russia would want to get involved if Norks did this unprovoked.Therefore, Norks not only can't but won't. This is why they want nukes*. Now in a situation where South Korea (and USA) attack North Korea first, 90% of the artillery will be neutralised before they fired and chances are the civilians of Seoul will be in bunkers under guise of a 'mass drill'. Russia might get involved then.*They have dumb bomb nukes, but no missile nukes, so no point using conventional artillery when you can just suicide drop a nuke on Seoul. You cease to exist after but sure.
I was going to criticize the accuracy of this image but this guy wouldn't stop looking at me so i decided otherwise. It's kinda a neat trick, even if you know it's bullshit the viewer will automatically hesitate to point it out by thinking of retaliation. Even if you personally don't worry about it you know on some level a huge number of people who saw this painting in person just kept their mouths shut.
>>61975352I love reading these retarded takes that pretend that the DPRK's artillery force isn't at least half rockets and that MLRS just don't exist. In your own way you are dumber than the 'Paris in three weeks' Vatniks.
>>61975436Yeah man, retarded takes like.https://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/mind-the-gap-between-rhetoric-and-reality/Fuck off retard. Don't fucking reply to me again when you're clueless.
>>61973902>>61975398Just so you guys know, this is the real photo of the signing of the armistice in 1953...
>>61975278nta>turd-wurld MRBM /k/ope amerikkka is finishedI was hoping this had died after Iran's impotent chimpout, but I see we've just transitioned to something else. Pro-tip: just say drones, biplanes, trash balloons, etc something like that will destroy all airbases. There is at least meme-evidence this might work.
>>61975486Oh look, a 15 year old outdated fantasy by literly no one who also pretends rockets don't exist. Literly delusional. Actually worse because the guy who wrote that explicitly states it is unrealistic fantasy scenario due to him not considering rocket artillery but obviously you didn't even bother to read it before you shat out the first garbage you could find on google. >hur hur we gonna beat them with counterfire cus dem Norks can't use MLRS to target alled artillery only tubes, dems da rulezFucking idiots. >>61975550If you don't know the diffrence between Iran making a fake attack with over a week of warning and hours to intercept the attack once it's pre announced launch time began and a real war you need to leave, you need to be 18 to use this site.
>>61975510Hah, the glaring Nork actually was the only accurate part.
>>61974025They don't have all the assets needed for full scale invasion positioned at the border always that's fucking absurdAlso although they may well have a lot of shells prepositioned at the battery sites, that many guns firing as fast as possible will use a brondignanian volume of shells, they would chew through literal fucking mountains of the things in hours. Nork would have to have to wind up an equally massive logistical effort to keep the guns speaking, and you can't just start up that sort of thing like pushing the power button on a PC. It would be very active and very visible long before the first gun fired.
>mass artillery on border>get nuked by American stealth aircraftGood idea ping.
>>61975684This guy's rightIf it's one thing we've learned over the past couple of years, it's that third world non-western shitholer miltech always works perfectly and performs to the specs they claim it does, whilst western khokhol failtech do nothing it say
>>61975684>>61975768The KN-09 would probably be the workhorse MLRS for a Nork first strike, but so little is known about them that I can't find good figures on (1.) demonstrated accuracy, and (2.) how many units are in service. I've seen the stated range as 100-200km, which is a bit of a spread. If you've got reputable sources I'm all ears, but didn't the Yeonpyeong Island firing in 2010 show real problems with Nork accuracy and dud rounds? If they couldn't get arty to work reliably then I'm skeptical that they've got NATO-tier accuracy on missile launches. My best guess is that in a sneak attack the KN-09 would wind up looking a lot like the projected use of those 170mm Koksan SPGs:>have enough range to hit Seoul>don't have enough accuracy to nail high value targets reliably>North Korean units stay housed in mine entrances and caves, using indirect fire from the far side of protective hills, etc.>opening surprise salvos probably deal a few hundred civilian casualties in a chimpout before civvies are all in bunkers>Norks peek out just long enough to shoot and then hunker right back down, hope that they built enough decoy entrances to prolong the inevitable>coordinated counterbattery and networked fires from the South kick in the teeth of anything the DPRK has within 155mm range very soon after>retaliatory air and missile campaign of ROK + USAF is a predictably one-sided thrashing>Xi now has to decide if the Kim dynasty just became more trouble than they're worth
>>61975195The point of my post is that SEAD isn't magic, you actually have to do it. It's not like you have SEAD and therefore you just have free reign immediately, you have to actually do the suppression of the enemy air defense, and this is a time-consuming process that, given the sheer density of NK's SAM network, will take several weeks.>>61974957Sure, and there's gonna be like 20-30K targets.
>>61973996>Seoul is like 50km away from the DMZSeoul is a big ass city. Some parts are like 15km from the border
>>61974142You forgot the part where U.S. foreign policy incompetence just resulted in NK and Russia entering into a military alliance. A U.S. attack on NK means that the U.S. and Russia are in an open hot war. Also, a U.S. war on NK would almost certainly draw the Chinese in. If shit is getting that bad and hot and heavy, the Iranians are going to do whatever the fuck they feel like doing as well. In other words, the U.S. airforce is going to be kind of busy with other stuff.
>>61974850>you have cock?>please give me cockJesus why does she keep saying it, I can only get so hard.
>>61976403Nork don't have AD. They don't even have manpads. It's to the point that a helicopter fleet is a serious problem that they don't have a real answer for. There might be 10's of thousands of mortar tubes and towed artillery pieces, but there aren't 10's of thousands of guns that can reach well past the DMZ. You aren't going to be popping a koksan in and out of spiderholes to take potshots. It might take weeks to eradicate a force like that but it's not going to take weeks to neuter it. Their artillery force is going to take parabolic losses and cease being anything more than a nuisance within the first day.>>61976467Yeah just like they held up their alliance with Armenia. Russia can't even stand up to Azerbaijan, but sure they'll definitely go to war with the US over NK.
>>61974103>That said, nobody really has a right to brag about shit regarding that war. Nobody got what they really wanted.South Korea and America got what they really wanted, an independent South Korea.>noo America actually wanted to annex North Korea!!!Congress never made that an official directive in their war. They pushed north because they were able to do so at favourable casualty rates. Would they have annexed North Korea into the South if they took the whole thing? Likely. But it was not their actual goal. Their goal was to defend South Korea, which they did successfully.North Korea lost, China lost, South Korea won, America won.
>>61976043>Xi now has to decide if the Kim dynasty just became more trouble than they're worthI'm pretty sure that Xi would much prefer a simple and corrupt junta like Burma.They just don't an obvious way to do it without direct action that they'd be very nervous about for lots of reasons, nukes being one.
>>61976579>Nork don't have AD. They don't even have manpadsHuh?They have manpads bolted onto everything with wheels.It's clearly a doctrine to have vast, distributed shorad that's impractical to exterminate.
>>61975684>fake attack>Iran depleted their modern MRBM stockpile and exposed the limits of their strike capacities for an "just a prank bro" strikethat's completely fucking retardedWhich means 100% true. Iranian mudpeople be like that.>with over a week of warningwell yeah, it took them about that long to move and prepare assets. Oh, did you think moving the drone and TBM platforms into place for the mass launch of hundred of units, in a near-simultaneous window, is something they did quietly in an afternoon? lol noBut, apparently you think North Korea can do something an order of magnitude more complex than that, and do so more quickly, without notice.That's an lol&lamo.
>>61974196Hey, now, Iraq had the best GBAD outside of the Red Army at the time. They just *looked* bad because the US military (along with the IDF) was about the only force that had the gear, training, and doctrine to perform large-scale SEAD/EW at the time. Yes, most European air forces had *some* capability, but it was limited, and not a core part of their doctrine.The key was smashing Iraq's key GBAD C3I nodes on the first night, then baiting out a lot of SAMs with a mass TIALD launch with Wild Weasels coming in behind the drones to pick off radars. It sounds obvious *now*, but it was new-fangled at the time, using stealth, drones, and EW in a very large pre-planned campaign; something that Russia itself hasn't really been able to duplicate in the last couple of years.>>61974212This is the correct answer. Yes, *technically* there is a small number of guns that can hit Seoul's suburbs. But it's pretty insignificant, and that only serious threat to the capitol is from tactical missiles (e.g., Frogs) and SRBMs. How effective those might be is generally unknown, since solid rocket motors degrade over time, accuracy is pretty poor unless they figure out how to adapt commercial satnav to kit-bashed guidance systems, and effectiveness would depend on what targets were hit and whether they committed to using WMDs in a surprise attack.
>>61976579>Nork don't have AD. They don't even have manpadsfactually wronghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Korean_People%27s_Army_Ground_Force#Anti-aircraft_weapons
>>61976733>Iraq had the best GBAD outside of the Red Army at the timeNo they fucking DIDN'T you fucking retard, where did this bullshit come from?
>>61973902Apart from the fact that Seoul is out of range of all but the largest Soviet-era artillery, allow me to play devil's advocate for the North Koreans here (I know I shouldn't) and argue that they would not, at least not initially. The reason for this is quite simple, conflict escalation.If the North Koreans turn one of the world's largest and most opulent cities into the surface of the moon, they can expect three things.1. Operation Meetinghouse II: Pyongyang Boogaloo2. North Korean leadership are all considered free game3. Any attempt negotiate an end to the war (a war where from the very outset, they will already be at an extreme disadvantage) that's anything short of an unconditional surrender will fall on deaf ears.I could see the North Koreans threatening to shell Seoul as retaliation for the USAF launching airstrikes on Pyongyang, attempts to kill Kim Jong Un, or crossing the DMZ and launching an invasion of North Korea, absolutely. Maybe they fire a few limited barrages at South Korean government buildings to serve as both a disruption and a demonstration that they are capable of making good on their threats. But the moment they actually start blasting away at apartment buildings and malls like the Russians did Mariupol, they lose ALL of that potential leverage and for both America and South Korea, it becomes a war to exterminate the North Korean state.tl;dr the THREAT of Seoul being shelled gives the North Koreans great leverage, actually doing it does not.
>>61976865Baghdad had more AA around it than Moscow in 1991
>>61973902>Can they really destroy Seoul in just 1 hour with thousands of artillery pieces?sure they can. Like Puccia can take Kyiv in three days and whole of ukraine in less then a week Or chyna can take taiwan in less then 20 minutes South Korea will wipe north korea off the map in the second war. That is not even up to date with how overwhelmingly lopsided the balance is between those two in favor of the normal state.
>>61976737I was going to point out that I don’t see any long range SAMs listed. But then I remembered that North Korea does the thing where their big missiles don’t belong to the army.Anyway, it doesn’t much matter. Even if their SAMs were as good as or better than what Russia claims the S-300 is, North Korea suffered the exact same glaring weakness that Iraq and really any Soviet-type military does and did: the average Nork soldier isn’t willing to take a parasite infested dump without instructions from NORKKOM. And the US is very, very good at dismantling command and control systems.
>>61977794>THREAT of Seoul being shelled gives the North Koreans great leverage, actually doing it does not.This doesn't make any sense.
>>61978062If you shoot your hostage you lose the leverage.
>>61978065But if the US know this, North Korea is completely harmless.
>>61976605>>Xi now has to decide if the Kim dynasty just became more trouble than they're worthXi also has to consider the fact that the DPRK has enough atomic weapons to delete over half the PRCs population. Bejing to Pyongyang isn't very far, the DPRK could creditably threaten a nuclear first strike against the PRC.
>>61978143That's probably why Norks kill a few southies every few years. Just to keep them on their toes and make the point that they're too irrational to apply game theory too.It's a valid strategy ubder game theory, ironically and does well in ai tournements on prisoner's dillema>>61978603>enough atomic weapons to delete over half the PRCs populationlolNot even close. Maybe they could get to 1% because PLA air defense is focused on US bombers and fighters rather than TBMs. Nork doesn't have many nukes but even 1-2 impacts is a big deal obviously.Not sure what your point is anyway because ooking nooks was explicitely mentioned as a factor.
>>61978632Are you retarded? The DPRK has at least 90 atomic weapons. The PRC has no means to stop any of them from being delivered.
>>61978731>90 atomic weapons>Somehow these will kill 700 million people.
>>61978833Look at a map of China and it's major population centers, the number of people who live there, their distance from the DPRK then start doing math like you were David Mustaine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXF-RNqmKOo
>>61978833Three gorges dam and sheeet
>>61977794> game theory This is exactly it; NK is more powerful making threats than doing any actual military action. It’s the reason russia invading UKR was such a bad move. The threat of invasion was much more powerful than an actual invasion, and cost much less. Actually doing the invasion is both expensive and risky, and gives your enemy the chance to bury you.
