>>61978120
proof?

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>>61978120
You posted the wrong photo

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all ya need sonny

>>61978120
luv me shotguns, but survival situations aren't actually very realistic unless you are a bush pilot or something. even then your plane will have an ELT and you'll have a secondary one with food enough to hold you out until rescue.
so what series of events have to happen for you to need a survival gun? Getting lost on a hike/backpacking? you don't have a map and compass? you can't use the GPS/GLONASS/ETC on your phone or secondary nav device? Short of you getting lost, AND not having ayt map and compass AND something making your secondary nav devices inoperable I don't see a rational situation where a survival gun makes sense for practically anyone.

>>61978120
JTS shotties

>>61978120
Short shucking is a thing. The recoil with any non birdshot load is insane for most people and has produced years of funny video content.

>>61978178
>fake keymod slots
what are the Turks smoking when designing these shit shotguns?

>>61978471

Ironically their domestic market. Turkey has basically shall-issue shotgun permits, but it's much harder to get handgun and rifle licenses, especially the latter. Naturally, there's massive domestic demand for shotguns that look and operate like tactical rifles of all kinds, so the local gun companies churn these out by the hundreds of thousands. Another irony is that they tend to keep the best of these for domestic sale and dump QC failures/factory seconds onto the export market, with many shittier examples ending up in the US and Russia.

>>61978120
Because buckshot is fucking worthless past 50yds and slugs make your gun inferior to an AR10 in every way fucking imaginable.

>>61978120
I use a handgun for home defense. Most of the time a bump in the night is nothing, and if it is something, most of the time a handgun would suffice. Is a rifle or shotgun more effective than a pistol? Yes… but so is a 240B and some sandbags aimed down my hallway. Pick yer poison

>>61978484
>Another irony is that they tend to keep the best of these for domestic sale and dump QC failures/factory seconds onto the export market
it's actually the contrary. look at the turkish gun youtube videos. the shit you get in the states will jam a lot and shit the bed, but here most of the lower end stuff literally explodes. The creme of the crop is send to europe to manage to pass CIP testing which is why you'll see yuros recommend hatsans etc for poorfags as italian shotguns are expensives and mossbergs get a additional price hike due to importation

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>>61978178
>Longcat-tier carry handle with adjustable rear AND front sight
That’s actually kinda rad and I like it.

>>61978381
Put down the meth.
>>61978505
>>61978557
>Duck, goose
Shotgun
>Turkey
Shotgun
>Rabbits
Shotgun
>Deer, elk, moose
Shotgun with foster/brenneke slugs
>Wild cattle
Shotgun
>Home defense 10-30 yards
Shotgun
>Field/yard defense out to 70 yards
Shotgun w/ slugs
>Wolf, cougar, other predators lurking around your home
Shotgun

There is NO situation where you'll need to lay down suppressive fire as a citizen. NONE. No, large groups of feds or Chinese troops will be single file marching down your hallway so you can mow them down. No, you won't survive a ruby ridge tier attack.

One could argue the j frame is nice to have because you always have it in you, and in this sense I agree. But it should be a backup, something you carry because concealing a full size shotgun isn't happening. As far as out of the home while in the city, sure they work wonders.

>>61978120
>on /k/?
There's your answer right there. Luv me M3, simple as.

>>61978120
/k/ loves shotguns, I'm not sure what you're on about. There's always a SGG thread, the Maverick 88 is a very common recommendation for anyone looking for a cost-effective HD gun, Remingtons and Mossbergs are ever-popular. Tommy Tactical types drool over the M4.

Personally I think it's annoying when people talk up the versatility of shotgun but don't actually hunt, shoot clays, or do anything with it other than larp. It's a bit like those people who have 4x4s but don't actually drive off-road, or those with pickup trucks who don't haul cargo or tow trailers. But in all those cases the problem is the user, not the gun or the vehicle.

>>61978120
Because all this talk of "versatility" is mostly nonsense. 99% of /k/ doesn't hunt. they don't shoot clays. They don't shoot 3-gun. The "versatility" of the shotgun doesn't actually matter, except when they need justification for their larp purchase on social media. They can't just admit the shotgun is cool, or that it was the poorfag or cuckstate legal option, so they focus on the versatility argument instead. They'd have a point if they knew what they are talking about, but when they don't even know how many targets are in a round of skeet or talk about "birdshot" as though a goose and a dove load were the same thing...well, then you can tell it's just virgins talking about sex again, and everybody hates that.

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>>61978120
A shotgun for home defense is dumb boomer tier logic, a better option would be a suppressed handgun.

>>61978177
>>61978154
Why did the taurus judge get so popular with people who don't know much about guns? 410 is uncommon and expensive and underpowered out of a stub revolver and 45 colt is just expensive 44 special

>>61979890
It's a handgun that fires a shotgun shell, so in the minds of nogunz idiots it instantly gains all the powers they associate with shotguns from movie and vidyda BS:
>you don't have to aim, just point it in the general direction of the guy
>it's super powerful, a shotgun totally blows people away
>it's super versatile, you could even hunt with it!

While in reality, you are correct: .410 is not exactly a powerhouse out a short barrel. It patterns like shit because of the rifling and the fact that the barrel bore is .45 instead of .410. They kinda suck for .45 Colt because of the massive amount of freebore before the bullet his the forcing cone. They're impractically large and heavy for CCW. IMHO they're really fun range toys but they're pretty far down the list of optimum HD or CCW guns.

>>61979828
I hunt and shoot clays, and I can 100% tell you that me shooting clays during the apocalypse won't be a very beneficial use of ammo. Shooting clays and hunting game birds is a world of difference by the way. Almost not comparable in many aspects.

>>61979948
He's talking about virgins and sex as if he has any idea why a shotgun is versatile. I never heard anyone but him bring up competition shooting when describing a shotgun's versatility.

>>61978462
>recoil
I'm a manlet, with strong arms, but a manlet anyway, with low mass and can takethe recoil without any problems. What are you, a small girl?

>>61979973
>if he has any idea why a shotgun is versatile
Yeah, he totally forgot to mention posting pictures of it on Instagram, he just focused on the boomer shit like hunting and clays.

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>>61978462
>The recoil with any non birdshot load
Where do shotgun virgins get the idea that birdshot = low recoil from?

>>61978505
Shotguns are a jack of all trades. Buckshot is honestly not ideal (unless choked) past 20yds, and slugs kick like a mule if you aren't constantly beating yourself up with them to desensitize. However, if I had to fuck off into the woods and camp for a few months, I'd only make room for 1 carry gun and 1 long gun. The rest would be fishing supplies, water cleansing supplies, cooking supplies, tent, tarp, bag, bug spray, etc. The weight would add up, and even my 2 seater truck would almost instantly fill up in the cab with shit I don't want in the bed while fucking off. Hoofing it to the woods from where I am (as if gas instantly became unavailable) would be even worse. So if I was asked which of my long guns I'd take with me on some sort of survival expedition, or even which I'd keep if I could only own or supply one with ammo, my mossberg is really my only viable choice.
>ar15
Cool and capable of hunting deer, but birds you can forget about. It also isn't great for rabbits, I prefer my .22 mag over my AR for hares.
>carry gun
Always and forever, keep a pistol on you. But it isn't a long gun and will never hunt like one. I can take steel plates at 50-75 yards almost 100% of the time with my mossberg, chances are slim at 75 yards with even my full sized pistols though.
>AK
See AR but even worse meat destruction.
>30-06
I'd sooner use this for any large game from deer to moose, but unless I move significantly further north, I'll never see elk/moose. Would be nice for wild horses though.
>Marlin .44 mag
Love feeding this gun, but it can't take the abuse my mossberg could.

>>61980009
>hunting
Sure
>clays
How does target shooting make a shotgun versatile? It's akin to saying paper.

>>61980078
>How does target shooting make a shotgun versatile?
If you have a shotgun you can now participate in Skeet, Trap, 5-Stand, and Sporting Clays disciplines. You can't do those things with a rifle or a handgun.

>>61980098
>If you purchase a bird gun with barrel over 20 or 22 inches and no tactical items on the gun
Ftfy. Try doing any of those at a range with a home defense or 1301 tactical and not allowed on range.

>>61978462
>What is low recoil buckshot
Dog...

>>61978557
A further benefit of a pistol is that you can store it in condition-1 and know it's not going to randomly discharge. When cops carried shotguns they learned through experience not to keep a round in the chamber.

>>61979596
how come shotgun and revolver stans have to draw lines in the sand like this? its always "THIS SITUATION WHERE RIFLES ARE BETTER WILL NEVER HAPPEN STOP LARPING"

>>61980098
>you can now participate in target shooting
Again not explaining how target shooting makes a shotgun versatile outside target shooting. Again akin to saying you can shoot paper.

>>61979882
>suppressed
why? They're not that loud. I get that firing an AR indoors is going to result in hearing damage, but a 9mm should be fine.

>>61980151
Because outside of hunting, it truly will never happen.

>>61980155
>why? They're not that loud.

while i also have a suppressed handgun on my nightstand (mostly cause its just cool) i agree that firing a pistol indoors is not the end of the world. anons are way too concerned with hearing loss sustained from home defense situations. a situation that, if it ever happens, will probably only occur once in their lifetime

>>61980117
On most shotguns it's an inexpensive barrel swap to fix that problem if, it exists.

I shoot clays a lot for fun but I love shottys in general so I also have tactical models and even a couple SBSes (M4 entry model & a Serbu Super Shorty). I've asked if I can shoot them at my local skeet range and they've never had any problem with it. I'm sure I'd get shit if I tried to enter a tournament with a gun like that, but just shooting a round of skeet or trap with a tactical shotty? I do that all the time, it's a hell of a lot more fun than shooting paper.

>>61980152
>makes a shotgun versatile outside target shooting.
Lol, of course it's not versatile outside of that. you might as well as how does hunting make a shotgun versatile outside of hunting? Clay sports are just one of several data points on the list of shotgun applications. There's quite a lot really: many forms of hunting, 4 major clay sports (Skeet, Trap, 5-stand, Sporting Clays), at least two action type sports (2-gun, 3-gun), signalling with flares, crowd-control or less lethal deterrent like tear gas or bean bags, breaching, etc.

>>61980171
With a lot of the Europeans like Benelli - Beretta spare barrel pricing, might as well just buy a new shotgun.

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>>61978154
>>61978177
You’re half right

I fucking love shotguns. My store brand mossberg 500 is what I use to hunt deer in the brush of South Alabama. Longest shot has been 30 yards. That 3inch 00 spread tk the size of a large pizza, one flyer obliterated the front right leg, passed through, and sent bone chunks flying out of the front left leg. Fat doe dropped like a rock.
>tldr: luv me shotgun

>>61981013
Based zombie green enjoyer.

>>61980155
>why?
why not?

What does a shotgun do that a Ruger Mkiv with a can and an AR10 can't do, or even do better? I guess it's dirt cheap and
Oh
I get it now, it's all poorfag McDonald's wagie cope. It's the new M91/30

>>61981544
Hunt Ducks. Shoot skeet & trap. Engage rioters with less-lethal ammo. Breach doors. Get better range from flares than a tiny plastic shitpistol.

And don't forget the best part: flex on the poors. Nothing says classy like a nice sidelock.

>>61981625
>Shoot them on the ground/water.
>Literally nobody cares and we've established multiple times that a gun meant for that will be DOGSHIT at the other stuff so you're now buying multiple long guns anyway. I thought the shotgun was all versatile and shit.
>Commission of felony assault with a deadly weapon and intentionally leaving everyone involved alive to press charges.
>Nigger you're gonna breach a door with a 30" barrel gun you won't have adequate ammo to use on the other side of the suicide portal?
>Are you fucking retarded?
>Your $150 Mav88 isn't flexing on shit.

I prefer .308 for home defense so that I can also defend my neighbors homes from through my own walls :^)

>>61981544
>What does a shotgun do that a Ruger Mkiv with a can and an AR10 can't do, or even do better
>needing 2 guns to compensate for one
I laugh.
>hunt birds
>shoot down drones according to US military doctrine
>have a pump to play with

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>>61980155
itt: anon has permanent hearing damage but can't admit it.

>>61981680
>>Shoot them on the ground/water.
It's not that simple and you know it.
>>Literally nobody cares
Tactical Timmies like yourself might not care, but many people do care.
>times that a gun meant for that will be DOGSHIT at the other stuff
I'm talking about shotguns in general, many of them even come with two barrel sets for both tactical larperating and practical stuff.
>>Nigger you're gonna breach a door with a 30" barrel gun
I'm not assuming 30" barrels. Barrels can be swapped, shorter barrels can be used. Personally I don't think I'd ever be breaching a door, but if we're listing shotgun applications that's a well established one.
>>Your $150 Mav88 isn't flexing on shit.
Yes, that's why I mentioned sidelocks specifically. If you want to flex on poorfags then it's fucking easy to spend 6 figures on a shotgun.

>>61981680
>Shoot them on the ground/water
You might get one, sure. That's it though. You're also fucking up the meat using fragmenting ammo or 308 on birds. You could argue that a punt gun would do it better, but for those of us without them, shotguns work best at taking out more than one single bird at a time. I'll also argue shotguns are better for snakes, rabbits, and other small, fast moving game. Wild hares also aren't like deer, you can get somewhat close to pop them, and if they run it's easy (and fun) to hunt with a shotgun.

You can argue whatever you want about home defense. Nobody is reaching past a gun for a different gun in a real instant home defense scenario, you grab whatever is closest and loaded. I wouldn't go running past my 870 to grab my ar just to see it go into an evidence locker for years to rust out, I'm grabbing whatever is closest to defend myself and my family.

The real poorfag cope is saying you can't have all of the above. I wouldn't take an ar10 duck hunting just like I wouldn't take a shotgun buffalo hunting.

>>61981696
>needing 2 guns to compensate for one
You need multiple barrels that are heavier and more cumbersome than an entire second gun to make a shotgun even usable for all the shit you claim. Yet a rifle and a sidearm does all that stuff better.
>hunt birds
Only matters for birds you would shoot as sport, which further reinforces the obvious fact that shotguns are a toy, not a weapon
>shoot down drones according to US military doctrine
They use M4's twice as much as shotguns in training for that
>have a pump to play with
Again, it's a toy, not a weapon

>>61981749
>You need multiple barrels that are heavier and more cumbersome
Double-barrel shottys are no heavier than pumps or semis, and their ergonomics is far superior.
>Yet a rifle and a sidearm does all that stuff better.
No question a rifle is a better fighting weapon, I'm not sure why that's even part of the discussion. But they're worse for everything else, which is the whole fucking point of the versatility claim.
>Only matters for birds you would shoot as sport
Yes.
>which further reinforces the obvious fact that shotguns are a toy, not a weapon
It sounds like you're trying to shift the goalposts from the versatility of a shotgun to what pronoun we should use when talking about shotguns? Why?

>Again, it's a toy, not a weapon
It's both. Just like people posting their retro AR builds on Instagram.

>>61978120
>versatile survival/home defense gun
And followed by
>Breaching doors and fighting rioters
Turns into
>It's for ducks and clays dumbass! You're just a tactical timmy! Just carry two barrels! Mine only holds two shells but it's VERSITILE
Under the premises of the thread, a .22 pistol and a 30cal mag fed rifle would blow a shotgun the fuck out

Shotguns are toys and/or a desperate selection by poor people, and should be treated as such.

>>61981749
>You need multiple barrels that are heavier and more cumbersome than an entire second gun to make a shotgun even usable for all the shit you claim
??
I shoot skeet and trap with a pump, most people hunt with pumps. Drop the meth dude.

>>61981929
I use a 20" barrel for everything from trap shooting to 100yd swingers, hogs at 50 yards and other hunting. Also, once one duck gets off the water, they all do. Better not miss that shot on the water because you won't hit them in the air with an ar, and if you do it'll either clip a wing or you'll ruin the meat.

>>61978505
shoot your ar10 in your house and let me know how that goes you fucking retard

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>>61978557
Based. I use a "pistol" for home defense as well.

>>61978120
they dont have the dexterity in their fat ypr 2 diabetes swollen fingers to speedload a shotgun

>>61978120
Fudd 2A minimalist pronouncments, like from Corn Pop mostly. And a plethora of shoddy QA options even at the mid-range.

>>61979596
>Bonobos
Shotgun

>>61979890
boomers can't just get a sawed off, but they can buy a judge.

>>61979890
They're just neato

>>61981544
>What does a shotgun do that a Ruger Mkiv with a can and an AR10
Puts more holes in Jamal with less trigger pulls.
>rugee mkiv
A shotgun can actually put someone down in a reasonable amount of shots when you're under stress. Yes muh shot placement is king but you're going to be less accurate and you'll probably be magdumping anyway, which takes time.
>AR of any kind
A shotgun doesn't make you automatically look like a LARPer when it's time to go to court for shooting Jamal.
>inb4 I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 harumph harumph
Unfortunately women will be included in the jury of your "peers" and they view tacticool salt rifles negatively.
To recap, you can put 8 or more holes in Jamal with one trigger press and your weapon isn't seen as le scary in court.
Win win.

>>61979882
Getting hit by a whole 00 buckshot in 1 shot vs a few 9mms over many shots is a rare time that muh stoppin powah actually is real

This >>61984882
Plus the slight spread at HD distances might help you hit the sweet spot when pull your shot off the bullseye under stress.
Long guns are always better than handguns at putting people down anyway.

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why does a home defense gun need to be versatile? are you expecting a no knock raid by quail? defend your home with the same kind of weapon that the people invading it will be using.

>>61984917
How many mags are on your HD rifle?
Because unlike those pic related invaders, you don't have time to don kit
Everything you need has to be on the gun itself.

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>>61984929
I'm saving up money to buy one of these things to park in the hallway pointing at my front door. only one shot but I think it will be enough.

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>>61978462
Just dont be female and you're fine
Here is a guy tanking the recoil of a whole tube of full power slugs with his fucking face

>>61978868
>longcat
take me back...

>>61980161
You can literally just buy all the food you need, am year round. If you want to play with shotguns, then you can go to a safe range and rent one from a proper licensed official for an hour.

Honestly, it would be so much safer if the government would just gently take your shotguns. Since the time where you will truly need them for "hunting" will never come.

>>61978120
It's a mediocre shotgun
>>61980014
Oh my nigger
That fiocchi is another light game load
3 inch BB is when you start to compare to hot loads

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>>61980151
>how come shotgun and revolver stans have to draw lines in the sand like this?
I know that some people do that, but for me the fundamental question is, "if a burglar kicks in my front door, which gun do I grab" - there's really only time to get one.

I think people should own rifles, shotguns, pistols, knifes, etc. Own them all at some point in your life if only so that you're educated by experience in how they work.

But if you have to defend yourself and your family, realistically, you have time to grab one weapon. For me, the best jack-of-all-trades is a pistol. It's more reliable than a shotgun, easier to store, can be stored in condition-1, and it easier to handle while moving toward the threat.

...and I also have a shotgun, because if I got into a Katrina situation, a shotgun would be the more appropriate weapon - I'd be sitting on my porch with a shotgun and a pitbull and sure, I'd also have a pistol OWB

But if someone asks me for advice on the one thing they should buy, my answer is a pistol.

>>61978120
I'd say the Shotgun is appropriately rated. Just about everyone I meet has a positive opinion of them.

>>61979890
45 colt is more common than 44 spl
45 colt can also be loaded to pass 44 mag in energy.

>>61978381
Niggers

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>>61978120
Why are shotguns the best?
Because it's what I already have.
First comes the end result.
Second comes reasoning as to why it's the best decision.

Get your head out of your own ass.
12.7x99 mk 211 Raufoss is best for home defense because I saw it in a movie and it was badass.
Pic related.
Over penetration is for poorfags that don't have good enough walls.
All my walls are reinforced with kevlar and epoxy.

Whats a better first shotgun a Shockwave shorty or a300?

>>61988160
Are planning on putting a brace or stock (after paying the King's tax of course :^) on the shockwave?
Your first shotgun needs a buttstock.
You're also comparing apples to oranges with the whole semi vs pump.
I'd say get a 500 field/security combo as a first shotgun.
>18.5 inch cylinder bore barrel
>28 inch barrel with chokes
>pistol grip if you want to experiment with no buttstock, it's only 4.something inches longer than a shockwave in this configuration

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>>61988250
Good points I'll look into that one. Yea was just looking at cheapo options under 1k still researching

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>>61988422
Here's a comparison of the shockwave vs the 18.5 barrel with pistol grip.
It's not as ideal as the birds head grip let's you reach the tang saftey UT you can buy one for 20 bucks if you really want it.
Field/security combo is the best deal in shotguns besides the Maverick.

>>61979596
>There is NO situation where you'll need to lay down suppressive fire as a citizen. NONE. No, large groups of feds or Chinese troops will be single file marching down your hallway so you can mow them down. No, you won't survive a ruby ridge tier attack.
what if another nigger ODs while getting arrested and future doctors and astronauts riot and start burning down neighborhoods again?

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>>61988422
>>61988503
Also keep in mind if you buy a mossberg with a short tube (shockwave) or the 7 shot tube you won't be able to swap barrels.
Just quit being indecisive and get pic related already. It's your first shotty and it covers all the bases. You can get a fully semiautomatic tacticool SBS later if you find that you really love shotguns. If not you still have a solid do it all pump shotgun which every gun owner should already have.

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>>61978120
Because zoomies can’t handle a bit of 12ga recoil, have bad taste and would rather a .300 Memeout Shart’nFart Arms “pistol” with the latest foot-and-a-half-tall Holosun mount because the internet told them they NEED to consume current thing or they WILL DIE IN THE HECCIN BOOGARINO.

>>61988750
Will do. Yea I don't care about semi. Mainly wanted a short barrel to add a Salvo can later

>>61979828
>>61979773
It's still versatile, even if you don't use that versatility. You still have the freedom to do so

>>61981929
Neither can hunt flying things, breach doors, shoot skeet or trap, nor load specialty ammo. Stop the b8

Because most /k/ommandos have an autistic need to justify their every purchase and can never admit to themselves that they just like guns and want to buy more of them. Shotguns are especially heinous here because they can cover multiple roles at once, flying in the face of the aforementioned obsession with justifying purchases.

>>61978120
a solid semi auto shotgun is the single most useful gun there is yes, dunno about survival but most actually useful on a farm, hunting, perstcontrol, self defense, small game, flying birds, deer with slugs it's the most useful single gun yup, after that a side by side with hammers and ejectors

>>61978120
Because admitting that shotguns are all you really need, and are in fact the superior choice in the most common scenarios, is agreeing with a common talking point used by anti gunners, which must be avoided at all cost.