Are immobile shitty towed howitzers obsolete in a peer conflict where both sides can do accurate counter battery?
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>>61985562>Are immobile shitty towed howitzers
>>61985562They are still great for forward operating bases in the mountains and can be dropped by heli
>>61985562Why can't puccia make a howitzer half as good as the shitty western stuff?
>>61985562Unironically no towed entire batteries of arty being flown around the battlefield by hellis in hard to reach spots (including the rear lines of an enemy) has its value, not to mention in an island hoping campaign that the US might get into in the case of a war with the Chinese.It's always good to ask questions OP doesn't matter how stupid it sounds I applaud you.
>>61985586>It's always good to ask questions OP doesn't matter how stupid it sounds I applaud you.Thanks. I just wanted to know because I fucking hate these things. Pulling through with a giant fucking rod is tiring work. Had them go off once or twice without my hearing protection on.
>>61985562>a peer conflict where both sides can do accurate counter batteryWhy would NATO countries fight each other?
>>61985562If you produce lots of ammunition nothing in ground forces is uselessIt’s not like air force where it’s all about qualityWe have seen it in ukraine
>>61985569Sliding what?
>>61985683Yeah but couldn't you replace them with SPGs?
>>61985562Just tow it away bro
>>61985725You'd get a lot fewer SPGs for the price.
>>61985562Towed arty still works because you can dig in pretty deep and nothing but a direct hit would kill the gun. And direct hits are unlikely in sporadic counter-battery.Well that's assuming you aren't a fucking retard who still uses artillery in dense mass formations, that's a kill regardless what you do. On the other hand wheeled guns kinda suck because in today's environment hitting unarmored moving target isn't particularly hard.But heavily armored SPGs is a king.
>>61985965Well, ack-shually, SPGs are pretty light on armour. PzH gets knocked out by any light cannon, Caesars get penned by HMGs
>>61985638Greek and Turk chimpout
>>61985562Yes probably.However towed arty does offer a significant numbers advantage which does mitigate their vulnerability. If you ccan owerwhelm the enemy with your artillery fire and keep the front moving maybe they wont have the opportunity to conduct effective counter battery fire.
>>61985965You cannot dig in. It's too slow. A drone will still hit right on the gun.
>>61985562You’d be surprised how quickly a well trained artillery unit can drop the guns, fire a volley, and roll out.
>>61986086>PzH gets knocked out by any light cannonYeah anything gets cooked on a direct hit from fairly low calibers, but direct hits aren't what you will get 90% of the times.What you will get most often are near hit shrapnel that Pzh holds pretty well and some loitering stuff, like lancet, that Pzh shrugs off like mosquito bitesat the same time>Ceasars would get utterly fucked by any of those >>61986174>You cannot dig in. It's too slow.What do you mean it's too slow? How do you think artillery warfare looks like? It takes about maybe 6 hours to dig enclosed firing position, and you can prepare them before gun even arrives. Drones are non-issue because you can fortify static position however much you like and drones can carry only so much ordinance, assuming they can even reach your position at all.And but off course you have to properly camo it, that's half of the job, leaving your gun in the open is just out of question.
>>61986254>loitering stuff, like lancet, that Pzh shrugs off like mosquito bites
>>61986351You probably just wanted to post la edgy lancet footage, but it actually good to illustrate my point. >direct hit>damaged trucks >keeps moving even though lost control>no secondaries >crew perfectly survived and can run on their own>can be recovered and fully repaired depending on how close to the frontline it was hityou have to use artillery in war either way, and that's probably just as good as it gets. If it was Ceasar rolling, drone could just go for the cabin or ammo and gun would've been a total kill with no survivors.
>>61985562>shitty towed howitzersYeah man, being able to do this is really fucking bad. Shitty!
>>61986423Fun fact: russia only has about 20 helicopters that can lift an artillery piece larger than the D-30 and the first time they demonstrated air transporting a D-30 with a Mi-8 was in 2019.
>>61986414>mosquito bites>damaged trucks (ignoring the engine fire)>crew ran home to their families >didn't toss its turret immediately (ammunition is stored ~10 meters from the point of impact) so it's likely been towed to poland for repairsIt's a bingo.
>>61986455>riding into tree-line did more damage than drone>BUT IT'S TOTALLY A WRITE OFF MKEY?>RUSSIAN DRONES STRONK MKEY?
>>61986472>>RUSSIAN DRONES STRONK MKEY?Yeh they're good enough.
>61986455>61986486It amazes me how effortlessly low IQs can live in imaginary realities
>>61985562works in ukraine as heavy hitters and that is as peer to peer as you get in this day
>>61986486>nike sockslmao puccians
>>61985562>obsoleteUseless. Without shells they are useless
>>61986513Simple-minded folks are easily amazed.
I don't really care how effective it is, it just looks cool
>>61986351>jump cut to super-low-res footage>no real aftermathClassic vatniggery. 99.999% chance that PzH survived just fine.
>>61986912Puccians are crying the hardest about CAESARs more than anything else
>>61986486Good enough to achieve pic relevant, that is.
>>61986940You forgot to add the popped chally 2, which haven't been seen or heard about for a whole year since. Have UK MoD updated their page to amend the part that claimed it's never been lost in combat yet?
They were obsolete in WW2. truck mounted rocket artillery could shoot and runThe only time it made sense to use immobile artillery was near the end of the war when the nazis could do nothing about it
>>61985562>obsoleteKinda of. The losses of these don't paint a nice picture.>>61985570>Be the idiot who tries to heli transport something 10-20kms behind enemy lines>With a 100 drones watching the fucking sky likely half of them being FPVs and the other half being able to guide artillery at the poor sods you just dropped off with some HE firestarterNot to say you can't actually move it fast after it's deployed or even carry ammo for it without another vehicle.>inb4 cope about air superiority having already destroyed the enemy army so it's just recreational shooting at arabs
>>61987528>AA dronesAre laughably terrible wastes of money with performance comparable to WWI aircraft. A gunship would dust them en-masse.
>>61985562yes.bohdana and caesar spgs r the future>>61985576artillery is inherently shit>>61985586a b52 carpet bombing does the same thing for the same price
>>61985562>immobile[Note shown: prime mover slightly off camera]
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>>61987528>100 dronesOh yeah?! Well I'll just get 101 drones and then I can do anything I want! And my dad can beat up your dad!
>>61985562>peer conflictlmao
>>61985562Towed howitzers are completely unnecessary provided you can somehow guarantee you will only ever fight in areas accessible by 15+ ton ground vehicles.
>>61985562towed howitzers are still plenty worth it. SPG's are much more expensive, and can be more difficult to maintain, and in some cases, potentially less accurate. however, drilling your crews on packing up your equipment and moving quickly has proven more important than ever. it has a place it shines over SPG's, but SPG's have things that they are inherently better at as well.
>>61985562“The future is not bright for towed artillery. I personally believe that we have witnessed the end of the effectiveness of towed artillery,” U.S. Army Futures Command head Gen. James Rainey said at the AUSA Global Force conference March 27 2024.
>>61985562They're for "offensive," defensive installations. A "fuck you, try it," measure when in their perceived territory. Especially for COIN ops. Otherwise, we'd just drop a missile on them by any of our numerous avenues of air assets.Just look at what happened to ISIS. Our guys fired so many rounds that the TBIs made them see ghosts IRL and made suicide rates higher than enemy kill counts.
>>61987214has it been confirmed yet?
>>61985562How does counter battery even work? As in, how do you know where the enemy battery is firing from?I always hear the US basically wrote the book on it in WWII but I'm curious how it actually worked
>>61985562They are drone bait unless they are hid well in mountains and hidey holes.
>>61990202Several ways. 1) for most armies, counterbattery radar. it's good enough to track shells back to within 50m of the origin point.2) audiovisual flash/sound spotting3) crater analysis4) map recon aka they have X range radius with Y guns so here are Z good spots they can hit us from so let's drop a few shells on each
>>61985562When in danger of counter battery they can still scoot if the crews haul ass to put it back on the tow hitch and then jump in an apc. Not as slow if the gun bunnies are motivated.But yes, self propelled has some advantages.
>>61990202These days, counter battery radar.Basically just tracks the shell back by observing it for a second or two.However, CBRs are not a be-all-end-all solution in an age of shoot-and-scoop SPGs.
>>61990143>suicide rates higher than enemy kill counts.Setting aside that a rate and a count are not comparable measures, they killed orders of magnitude more than were even deployed, so it's hard to see how that could be true.
>>61989527>b52 carpet bombing does the same thing for the same priceGuns are cheaper and B52s are transient. Air, missiles and bombs reign supreme for strike and interdiction, but they can't hold a candle to tubes for volume or duration.
>>61990281You're next.
>>61990143That was one marine battery firing something like 1k rounds max charge per gun in two months; highest round counts per gun were >10k. Supposedly they were the on tap resource for delta and they called in grid sweeps. That cadence of fire is the highest recorded since nam. Highly highly nontypical
>>61990395They should get goddamn awards that put their children fastracked through military institutions.Either way, fucked 'em up. And I mean ISIS and that Wagner batallion.
>>61990344Who was last? What are you even talking about? Should I even buy a dog?
>>61990202The other guys saying >these days it's counter battery radar are actually talking about yesterday.Today radar just gives you a general direction, and other half of the job is done by drone recon. Because however precise your radar might be, you'll still need a live feed for artillery crew, that's simply a standard now, whoever doesn't do that might as well be shooting cannon balls.
>>61986101The chances for that a close to zero now.
>>61985562In current war Ukrainians rate survivability: Heavy SPG>towed gun>light SPGWith drones you would get hit anyway and light SPGs explode in fireball.Towed guns while easier to hit but are most survivable against hits. This is just piece of metal with no explosives it can tank some hits, shrapnel etc, and if damaged it can be repaired unlike burned down SPG.Heavy SPG can tank some hits with armor.P.S. clearly artillery need organic drone defenses. Something like 7.62 minigun AAA RWS on the SPG, or separate support vehicle. Boomer warfare doesn't work anymore.
>>61989527>artillery is shitIt's the most successful weapon ever devised
>>61990176No, it sustained minimal damage to its tea set and has been towed to Poland for repairs. This older article confirms the extent of the damage is unknown so we all know it's fine now.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/09/05/british-challenger-tank-destroyed-video-ukraine-robotyne/
Idk but it looks cool
>>61989609This. People are extrapolating lessons from Ukraine to every single possible combat environment which is clearly retarded. Ukraine is flatter than your waifu, temperate and mostly agricultural fields with some urban areas. Try using SPGs for shoot and scoot in a mountainous jungle region and see how that works for you.
>>61991431shoot and scoot is a requirement for survival now that the enemy can have drones virtually everywhere on the battlefield, and if it isn't drones it's satellites.regardless of where you're fighting, if you can't stay mobile your odds of surviving are much smaller.
