>best BVR missile in the world>FrenchWhat makes French equipment superior to America?
Yeah
>>62074863>ASSRAAMer>American seeker, electronic>Meteor>commercial failure
>>62074863The AIM-260 JATM is in development so enjoy being better at something we never really needed over the past 21 years I guess.
>>62074863>Meteor>FrenchLmao
What is ITAR?France needs American approval to sell its missiles
What makes the Meteor great also makes it unsuitable for mass-adoption with a real military (ie, the U.S.). AIM-120 uses simple solid-fuel rocket motors which are super cheap to mass-manufacture. Meteor uses a highly sophisticated ramjet engine which gives it the ability to both regulate thrust and maintain thrust for longer, allowing it to prosecute a much larger no-escape envelope. But, that’s super-expensive to mass produce; not only does the Meteor cost like 9x more at current production levels, the capital cost to ramp up to meet U.S. order requirements would be astronomical compared to ramping up to the same degree using simple rocket boosters. So it’s great for a pretend-military (ie all of Europe) which has some budget, cares about performance but which won’t actually go to war. Not suitable for the U.S. which has nothing like a peer and which is focused on cost-cutting.
>>62074863But that's not AIM-174
>>62074863>best bvr in the world. It was. New standard is 400km of range.
>>62074863>The frog spammer hasn't read the news>"OH NON NON NON!" See >>62075622 (checked) Frogs BTFO almost as hard as chinkoids lmao
I love how every retard spamming "muh better missiles than MURICA" for years are *bitterly* tying to avoid even MENTIONING the AIM-174B.From chinks to vatniks to even frogs, silence is fucking deafening.
>>62074925Anon, you haven't seen the news have you?>>62075622desu, the best part is that this pic stunlocks the chinks spammers.
>>62075303>>>62075622>>>62075638>>62075622>>62075638>>62075669>>62075678Bruh it is fucking unreal how posting that picrel or even mentioning a fucking SM-6 strapped to a Super Bug utterly kills these threads holy shit lmao
>>62076273I don't know why or how it duped some of your replies, anons, my apologies for being retarded.
>>62075622>can only hit surveillance planeslollmaoPL-21 beats it in performance
>>62074863Both of those missiles come from MBDA UK
>>62074863Mogged by a2a SM-6
>>62076328>can only hit surveillance planesThis is a myth.It's a widely known fact that the SM-6 is extremely agile against moving targets even at extended range. There's a reason everyone is losing their mind over the hilariousness of this solution. It's not just beating the shit out of everyone else, it's doing it with something that is well known to be an incredible performer.>PL-21Is the missile that is probably only effective at extended ranges for sniping tankers and AWACS, which it won't get in range of because the launch platform will be designated by F-35s or other ISR assets, and then sniped by AIM-174Bs fired from Super Hornets or F-15s giggling their asses off from well over-the-horizon.
>>62076328
>>62075156Lmao have you seen the cost of your FPV drones.>cost-cuttingAbsolute horseshit, go back to dilating.
>>62076448That's not even remotely true. The SM-2 body has mediocre aerodynamic performance, with fairly small tail fins, no fore planes, no horizontal thrusters. That's why they gave it a bigger warhead than the regular SM-2. The dual stage motor isn't even vectored.Sm-6 is a decent range extension of an obsolecent missile.
>>62076581wewlad
>>62076581>That's not even remotely true.You don't even begin to know how fucking wrong you are holy shit.>>62076581>The SM-2 body>Sm-6 is a decent range extension of an obsolecent missile.Dunning-Kruger is definitely back in season lmfao
>>62076581A high-IQ white poster on /k/? You in-between bans too?Correct. SM-6, which is a SM-2 with a booster and some internal upgrades is in fact stale tech and not comparable to modern air-launched A2A missiles. This program isn’t to upgrade air-to-air engagement performance but rather to open cross-branch weapon stores. Additionally the air-launched variant doesn’t have the 1st-stage booster so the retards are greatly exaggerating its performance, ie, taking an actual SM-6 performance and blowing it up by adding air-launch to it.
>>62076581>SM-2 body has mediocre aerodynamic performance, with fairly small tail fins, no fore planeswow, this is like, entirely incorrect>The dual stage motor isn't even vectoredcorrect, because it's not a short ranged missile, the motor is burnt out by the time the missile reaches the targetAlso, funny that you don't respond to >>62076485 showing a highly difficult short ranged engagement against a high speed, ramjet powered sea-skimming target by a SM-2MR, almost like the missile is actually maneuverable
>>62076655Sorry that you thought sm-6 was anything more than an Sm2 body with larger motor, different electronics and a booster.Sm-6 has no vectored thrust and no lateral thrusters. It's therefore on the shit side of modern missile agility.
>>62074925It's already developed and in limited production. It's expected to overtake AIM-120 production by 2026.
>>62076675>correct, because it's not a short ranged missile,Have fun turning your missile at high altitude mate.
>>62076674>open cross-branch weapon stores>navy missile on a navy jet is cross branch now
>>62076675Because at short range an SM-2/6 is still within it’s powered engagement envelope, and modern CPUs can crunch approach vectors much more accurately then you seem to believe — a ramjet at Mach 4 is severely limited by its own velocity, thrust capacity, mass / gravity / friction etc so the range of its potential movement is very restricted and easy to predict by modern systems. The short range helps the interceptor in this case, not hinder it.
>>62076485>>62076675That's absolutely not a difficult engagement. It's a simple sea skimming target crossing at short range. It's well within NEZ. Missiles could do that in the 80's.Ever ask why two missiles are fired to intercept if its so accurate?
>>62075622Guys don't fight. There is a simple wayy to find out which missile is best.Ductape a couple of those under some Ukraine Migs (or eventually F16s) and lets find out by kill count.(I also always wondered if you could make a ground launched version, by ductaping them, on a small booster solid stage)Either of those have their own radar seeker for when they are close to their targets.The main problem I guess is how you put them close enough if they are not fully integrated with the launch aircraft. However, dont fully quote me on that but I believe both of them can receive mid cource updates and the way they do is by signals encoded in the launch aircraft's radar emissions.However (I think) there is no particular reason it can be any other radar given that capabilit (such as, say, a friendly, super neutral AWACs far away)(Aka I am basically proposing having the Ukranian aircraft just act as a "firsdt stage" to bring them to altitude and fire them towards the somewhat correct direction)
>They've finally found a cope to pound>It's pretending SM-6s aren't *well known* for their maneuverabilityIt's an improvement but damn is it pathetic.
>>62074863>What makes French equipment superior to America?Their planning and rational thinking has always been superior. Just as German engineering and manufacturing has always had the edge. Just as Italian design has always been ahead of the curve. All 3 have 2 gigantic flaws.
>>62076692Do you see those big ass strakes? Do you understand that fore planes are not necessary for maneuverability with a modern understanding of aerodynamics? Look at a modern AIM-9X, for example, it has fixed forward fins and fairly small tail fins, yet it's universally accepted as being extremely maneuverable even after motor burn out. Keep deluding yourself with your retardation.>>62076706>>62076707I'm very familiar with missile guidance and engagement mechanics thank you very much, that is a challenging engagement due to the short timescale the missile has to maneuver into an intercept trajectory, particularly since both missiles were fired from VLS cells. And to the second anon, because it was an exercise, the missiles were fired by two separate ships, they're training cooperative engagements you ignorant retard.
>>62076724They aren't, they are well known for having range and being one of the few weapons the US navy has that can engage below the radar horizon or behind terrain,. Most of the arsenal is semi-active.Feel free to explain how a missile without thrust vextoring or horizontal thrusters is somehow more agile than a missile that has those features.Or do physics not apply to your favourite weapons? It's better just because? Baby tier argument, you'll get no further reply.
>>62076722Funny enough, there's an easier pathway to integrate AIM-174B into F-16 than with Meteor.Not to mention Burgers have many of AIM-174B in stocks. I don't think it likely, but it would be very funny.
>>62076745>you'll get no further reply.But I want more wall of pseud cope, c'mon anon give us more.
>>62076745Here's a question. Do you think the AIM-120 is not a maneuverable missile? And I love how your arguments have gone from>SM-6 IS NOT MANEUVERABLEto>SM-6 is uh less agile than a missile with thrust vectoring and horizontal thrustershahahaha you got called out on your bullshit and now you're trying to move the goalposts. So tell me, what long ranged air-to-air missile has these features? Go ahead. Name them. Certainly not Meteor. No air-to-air missile has horizontal thrusters even, that's almost exclusively found on BMD missiles which have to deal with exo-atmospheric targets, like PAC-3. Just admit you're out of your depth.
>>62076745>the AIM-174B can't be manuverable because I say soPlease explain why the AIM-120 is manuverable then. It doesn't have thrusters either.
>>62076779He knows, but they need to find *SOMETHING* to cling to for cope.
>>62076854NTA but AMRAAM isn't regarded as agile, it's regarded as accurate due to mid course guidence via data link and active terminal guidence. Agility is a measurement of the amount of energy you can expend in the terminal phase while still having energy to reach the target. No missile that is gliding in the terminal phase will be exceptionally agile.
>>62076680Mark my words, thirdies are going to start coping by posting videos of their missiles doing cobra maneuvers
>>62074911>commercial failureHonestly that is a fucking stupid metric when talking about arms, procurement is driven by politics more than efficiency.The US has spent trillions on nukes and hasn't sold one.
>>62080615The Meteor isn't a strategic weapon regulated by international treaties...
>>62075622>ameritards when r-37m<wahhh only good for awacs, cant hit a fighter jet, too large and heavy>ameritards when aim-174b<OHMYFAUCI! 400KM RANGE IS THE NEW NORMAL!Total meteor supremacy.
>>62074863Memes aside they are both pretty impressive missiles. Meteor's propulsion by itself is a piece of engineering, giving it a better kinetic performance and a larger NEZ compared to AMRAAM. US didn't feel to need to develop missiles with similar performance as they could simply rely on stealth planes and sensors to get closer to targets and fire without being seen. Of course as other countries develop their own stealth fighters, USAF and USN now feel the need to field similar weapons
>>62076328Are you thinking of the Phoenix? Sm6 are air defense missiles that can shoot down just about anything
>>62076745You don't need thrust vectoring or attitude control motors for a long range radar missile retard. The point of those on modern IR missiles is so you can fire them at high off boresight angles which is irrelevant for radar missiles, and so you can fire them at extremely close range and they will still have time to hit. A long range missile doesn't need to pull 60G because by the time the target is being fired on, the missile will have plenty of time to maneuver into an intercept vector. Even if it can only pull max 25G that would be more than enough for any manned aircraft intercept. Especially with the warhead being 140lb
>>62074863>warriortard thread with false flag bait OP and filled with samefagsNot even once.
>>62076972>No missile that is gliding in the terminal phase will be exceptionally agile.The thing is that the missile isn't deadsticking its way to the target, that's borked DCS missile logic. The loft algorithm actually attempts to maximize the glide in thinner atmosphere so that the terminal maneuver is more of a dive than a glide to regain speed and thus control authority.>>62081174Yes, because the R-37 is a fat fuck of a missile. Simple as.
>>62076722>Guys you should give us MORE free stuff haha don’t you want to wing the online argument hahaPost nose you fucking Canaanite
>>62081174>Fires missile with LPI GaN AESA from a super hornet >fighter can't dodge because it doesn't know it's being fired on until the AIM174 goes pitbull 5 seconds before it hits Nothin personnel kid
Yeah I'm convinced the AIM-174B broke a lot of people's minds and it's bizarre to imagine why they thought America of all places would never pull wildly ahead.
the cope is tantamount.i can bet right now there are multiple shill tanks devoting all their resources to finding an anti-AIM-174B cope that actually might seem plausible to the average joe.it is imperative to their narrative that this missile DOES NOT exist in the form it currently does, it would crush so many years of built up hopium in dozens of thirdie countries.
AIPAC bribing politicians for Israeli interests will result in less sales and less funds and more lower qualitiesAmerican arms industry is done for
>>62083316>incoherent /pol/ noisesIt's okay, thirdie. Let it all out.
>>62074863They only have to build five since they know they will never use it.
>>62083436You are furnished mutts it's fucking overEven Thailand preferred underdog Swedish jets over yours
>>62083035Based
>>62083682>You are furnishedWe are indeed well-furnished, it pays to be firsties.>Even Thailandlmao, even
>>62083725If only you were as good at having sovereignty and not being Jew slaves as you are at being "witty" and "badass" on the internet
>>62083725>>62083436When was the last war you won on your own?
>>62083779Jews didn't kill 14 million Americans to take power and go on to kill dozens of millions more. That's Russians.
>>62076328probably this, PL-21 is purpose made for long rang A-Aadapting a SAM for air launch always comes with shortfalls
>>62083874>believing a chink missile is superior to an SMThirdies. Not even once.
>>62076328>helmettard shilling for the chinks again
>>62075090>France needs American approval to sell its missilesLol no
>>62083917Well, if they used US components. Yes.However, MBDA is probably more advanced than any single US missile manufacturer, so they don't need to.
>>62084050>MBDA is probably more advanced than any single US missile manufacturerLmao
>>62084242MBDA as a whole.Only direct competition is Raytheon.
>>62084050>saying this when the only reason you say it is because of the solid ramjet on the meteoranon the GQM-163 uses a SM-2 sized ramjet. The 'nam era Soviet 2K12 Kub uses a solid ramjet. Don't kid yourself into thinking this is some great technological leap nobody else can achieve.
>>62084050>MBDA is probably more advanced than any single US missile manufacturerYou got a source on that one?
>>62082933>fat fuck of a missileIt's not her fault she pressed the fatass button, it was an accident.
Is BVR missile threads the new warriortard spam thread.
The fuck's up with the French getting worked up over American weapons lately? I'm seeing a lot of this shit on Youtube, too. It's not like we're ever gonna use them against you guys. You can even buy them if you want.
>>62083799AhemLet's skip this one
>>62080615Commercial success is "fucking stupid metric"Then name 5 incidents where Meteor were successfully used against another plane
>>62075622>New standard is 400km of range.Modern warfare is so gay. I guess dogfighting kino is truly over.Just replace the planes with drones at this point.
>>62084601The gaul seethes over the eternal Anglo.
>>62084736You know, that's exactly the plan
>>62074863> What makes French equipment superior...Enthusiasm, at a guess
>>62075622>newyeah welcome to where everyone else was 5 years ago
>>62084736>I guess dogfighting kino is truly over.You do still have to see the enemy with yer radarhard when there are R-37Ms and AIM-174bs popping AWACS left and right so nobody wants to turn the big homing beacon on
>>62083218>pull wildly ahead>acquire a capability the chinks, russians and the fucking french have all had for years
>>62083820Is this b8? Or are you truly ignorant?
>>62085058>AIM-174B range: 400km>Meteor Range: 200km>PL-21 Range: 300km>R-37M Range: 200km
>>62074911>>commercial failurenigga what?
>>62075090Never did.
>>62085249>>PL-21 Range: 300km>>R-37M Range: 200km
>>62085058>"have all had for years"May we see the chinkoid, russoid, and frogoid a2a missiles with 400km range?>they still haven't come up with an acceptable cope.
>>62084601They're shitting on American weapons because of all the positive play they're getting, partially because of Ukraine and partially because one "competitor" has been exposed as potemkin feces and now suspicion and doubt's been cast on chinkoid export slop.The frog thinks shitting on burger weapons and implying frog weapons are better will allow them to capture more of the international arms market, even to places burgers were never selling, in the first place (frogs are notoriously ambivalent as to *who* you use their weapons on once they sold them, as long as it's not frog interests).They're just being typical shitbag """allies""" and talking shit about us as a marketing gimmick so people want to buy their shit.
>>62084050>Well, if they used US componentsBruh the French are the only one in the world able to build SLBMs without sourcing a single screw from the US, their stuff being free from ITARdation is like their main selling point.
>>62075669Can you explain this topic to me?I am not a /k/ regular, I came from /pol/ when I got fed up with the conspuracy-brained retardation thereDid the 174 provide some groundbreaking capabilities?Is the 174 the missile used in that animation the the j-20 chinkdoo being hit?Was that animation I am seeing part of some sort of virtual excercise?
>>62074863>Meteornice that it's appreciated I worked (and still work) on the inertial navigation system used for the Meteor>>62075156>cost like 9xno it does not>Meteor~1,8million from latest orders>AIM-120~1,2million from latest orders
>>62086094>Did the 174 provide some groundbreaking capabilities?They've essentially doubled the range at which US Navy jets can attack aircraft, and "muh range" has been the central argument for all the shilling about new chinese weapons.It's now shut down this major talking point for the forseeable future, all while being already available in numbers due to being a modification of an existing missile.
>>62086253>AIM-174i mean it's a great missilebut for compared to for example Meteorit's like 4x the size, 3x the price, 5x bigger warheadabove this it's slower and has a smaller No Escape Zone with considerably less maneuverability it's used as AAM toobut it was mainly developed as SAM for shipsor even as anti ballistic or anti ship missile before they thought mounting it to an aircraft
>>62086334>smaller NEZ>slowerRETARD ALERT RETARD ALERTThe ramjet does not have magical capabilities. Yes, the missile is likely under thrust for longer, but at a lower thrust, sustaining airspeed for a larger distance, hence a likely larger NEZ than AIM-120, BUT you can't compete against a missile the size of AIM-174. That heavier weight also means it sustains energy better over longer ranges. It is unlikely to be slower, and the strakes make it more not less maneuverable than Meteor. You've got no fucking idea what you're talking about and your mental image of Meteor is akin to clarke-tech.
>>62086400>over longer rangesyeah that's one of the argument of AIM-174the longer range, never argued aboutbecause it's not primarily developed as an AAMand post ~250km is pretty useless for BVRAAM>It is unlikely to be slowerwhat??it's literally in the specsMeteor accelerates slower but to higher max speedAIM-120 has a similar speed but at the expense of range and kinematic performance
>>62086253ThanksThat is funnyThey over-exaggerate and sensationalize but that dide laowhy and serpentza made me despise the CCP stillRusnigerias attack permanently buckbroke my contrarianism but I am left to feel somewhat hopeless about the future of civil society and cohesion in "the west" as I see all the mindless shilling and retardation by my own countrymen and the jeets and other such opportunistic jingoist lowlifes.Trump coming in to fuck it all up is a whole extra blackpill.But enough despondent whining - do you have any info on that animation of the j-20 being hit by a missile?I saw it posted here and dont know the context.
>>62086400another thing that you can't fight is the reality that a smaller missile with higher ISP like the meteor means you can carry a larger amount of them on the same aircraft.where a superhorny might be able to carry 2 AIM-174's, it could (hypothetically) carry a much much greater amount of meteors that can still touch an enemy at great distance, with the exact same or an even lighter combat load.i think jap F35's are going to benefit from this especially since they will be able to have this extremely long range while keeping their stealth profile, since these missiles are small enough to carry internally.
>>62086553the animation is a meme response to the constant boasting and sabre rattling that chinks do, where they dump clip after clip of "theoretical" animations where chinese forces sink a US carrier, basically if they can do it we can do it as well, even if it's stupid to begin with.
>>62076722>Ductape a couple of those under some Ukraine MigsNice fucking way to waste all the potential this missile has
>>62076328>>62083874>probably this>adapting a SAM for air launch always comes with shortfallsLazy, hand-waving hopium for chinkoid slopware with fudged specs is a new choice. Still dogshit cope lol.
>>62086334>but for compared to for example MeteorUnabashed, pure cope.>it's like 4x the sizeNot at all a bad thing if you're trying to get a missile with good kinematics out to 400km, which it does and Meteor cannot.> 3x the priceDoubtful, but even assuming it is, who cares when it's a modification of an existing missile with deep inventory and a well-established production line?>5x bigger warheadThis is very, very much so a positive lmao>above this it's slowerNow we're getting into "Tornado has more wheels, therefore better than HIMARS" territory.>has a smaller No Escape ZoneWildly false.>with considerably less maneuverabilityEXTREMELY false, and officially entering bitter cope territory.>but it was mainly developed as SAM for ships>or even as anti ballistic or anti ship missile>"The multi-domain Burger weapon is inferior because the burgers realized they made something so fucking good they can use it to kill everything."That's a novel approach lmao.>before they thought mounting it to an aircraftYou can even detect a sense of almost betrayal that they never expected Americans to "cheat" like this holy shit.
>>62087016Why do people who run this cope steadfastly ignore the fact that>F-18s can carry two, but F-15s can probably carry up to 4 (four) of these, PLUS a compliment of AMRAAMS and Sidewinders, and in the future replace AMRAAMS for AIM-260>F-35s can get closer to targets and feed targeting information to AIM-174B equipped assets to fire the missile from well beyond even the most optimistically stated ranges of any chinkoid or vatnoid (or frogoid) missileIf you think Japanese F-35s will ever be in a position to fire off BVR missiles in anger that isn't going to involve F-15s or Raptors from Kadena, you're high. Those F-15s will probably have at least 4 AIM-174Bs onboard for Jap F-35s to call in like fucking killstreaks from way the fuck over the horizon.
>>62086553>do you have any info on that animation of the j-20 being hit by a missile?Don't know the origins but that missile is an AIM-54 Phoenix from the 1980s mogging a J-20.It's DCS because it's a known fact that a lot of chinsect """simulations""" they use to tout the primacy of their slop is just them fucking about in DCS.
>French thread tries to be relevant>American missiles are the main body of discussionFrogs irrelevant in their own threads is almost hurtfully poetic.
>>62087549>copedon't see howmeteor still outranges the fast majority of the chinese stocks and it's better efficiency means you can ice way more chinks before you need to return home. i never said anything bad about the AIM-174 lol you need to calm down.
>>62087870>i never said anything bad about the AIM-174>"3x the price">"it's slower and has a smaller No Escape Zone with considerably less maneuverability"You specifically mention AIM-174Bs in comparison to Meteors, now you're saying all you were pointing out is how the Meteor is considerably better than anything chinkoids have on offer (which is true).
