>it was le bad because ummmm our pilots suckedLiterally a skill issue. USAF required pilots have 1500 jet hours before they could sit in one while europoors put people with less than 500 who had only flown P-80s, which is like putting a 16 year old in a supercharged challenger with nitrous, and then made them fly 10 meters above the ground in bad weather
>>62130866Here’s your first (you), anon.
>>62130866>europoorsit was just the germans who were clinically retarded. italians loved it and the spanish never lost a single one>t. italian
>>62130866>germans using these things as cas planesfucking why
>>62130991they were also just shit pilots since they got rid of all the hecking natzees and the ones they brought back were super out of practice
>>62130991It's funny yo
>>62130991US: "Technically we can put bombs on it so we'll market it as multi-role (which was a big buzzword at the time) for more money."Germans: "They said it can do CAS so we will."If you've had to work with Germans you'll understand.
>>62130866>leading distributor of Indian air force parts
>>62130991Go fast meta.
>>62130991Literally bribes
>>62131069https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_bribery_scandals#West_Germanyconservatives have always liked fucking people over for money
>>62130866the smaller wings helped with turbulent ground air currents but the plane wasnt as advertised
>>62130866Everyone always talks about German F-104 losses, but surprisingly Canada had even worse attrition rates.
>>62131379not really surprising, canadians are retarded, emasculated and run their airframes into the ground, its cold there too
>>62131119"conservatives"Why are you here with this words Are you AI or just a retard? Go back.
>>62131551ESL
>>62131119>CSUI hate them so much. They do nothing aside from pumping money into Bavaria while the rest of the country falls apart.The CDU/CSU spent fuck all on infrastructure which is why so many roads and rail lines are fucked now.
>>62131551foreigners have no clue what cdu means, but they understand "conservatives".
>>62130866>>62130991Daily reminder that F-104s with the USAF had 30.63 accidents per 100.000 flight hours while Luftwaffe F-104s had 20 per 100.000
>>62130972>italians loved it and the spanish never lost a single one>>t. italianbecause you used it as an interceptor. the germans used it as a tactical bomber as well. most german crashes occured in low altitude flight at low velocities.
>have high speed lawndart interceptor>decide to use it in a low velocity high maneuver role>dieD:
>>62131027"multirole" aircraft didn't really exist until Panavia Tornado was introduced. In US service the first true multirole aircraft was F/A-18 hornet (hence why the F/A designation)You're conflating "fighter-bomber" with "multirole
>>62131857That's a nice Sukhoi you got there, would be a shame if something happened to it?
>>62130866>if you hit 15 deg AOA it pitches up to 60 deg AOA>you bleed all speed and enter a flat stallIt was a fast jet before anyone was good at making fast jets, sure you can adjust training and tactics to reduce the danger but a partial stall causing a full stall is not something anyone would field today.
>>62132101If
>>62132122>12.5 deg on speed AOAThat is a very narrow window you enter every time you try to land.
So much mindlessly regurgitated, ignorant bullshit itt. Stop sourcing all your thoughts about everything from shit you saw online.
>>62132101>>if you hit 15 deg AOA it pitches up to 60 deg AOA>>you bleed all speed and enter a flat stall>During the early stall tests, the aircraft demonstrated the tendency to suddenly "pitch up" once it reached an angle of attack of approximately 15 degrees. This "pitch up" would result in a rapid increase in angle of attack to approximately 60 degrees, accompanied by lateral and directional oscillation, and followed by sudden uncontrolled yaw and roll. At this point the aircraft would be essentially tumbling, descending at a rate of 12,000–15,000 feet per minute...It's even worse than that. Note the F-104 has a T-tail and these are notorious for causing unrecoverable stalls. It did have a stickshaker and a stick pusher but pilots often filter out alarm sounds etc. in busy situations.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YffmapFxt0M
>>62131379>>62131741everyone will ignore this and will keep talking about Germany.the only Nation without any fatalities were the Spaniards iirc and that only because they had strict good weather and ultra high altitude restrictions. Virtually all other nations went "Yolo"
>>62132347the pilots in that video are retarded>you would do it tooNo i wouldn't
>>62131857>>62132033>Airlines hate this machine, find out how in 7 easy steps you too can turn a civilian airliner into a mass grave
>>62132473Isnt the record like 2 (airlines) to 1 (manuevering kill)
>>62132378Yeah, also Spain operated only 21 aircraft for a like 7 years, compared to e.g. Germany with 916 for decades. The F-104 was just a piece of shit, there's no defending it
>>62132452>No i wouldn'tSays man who has never flown any plane in his entire life.So, correct, you wouldn't because you'd never even be in a position to do anything.
>>62132538It has nothing to do with having flown a plane, it's simply a matter of intelligence. Those pilots were probably midwits, I have a tested IQ of 137
>>62132547And yet, they are pilots and you have achieved nothing at all in your life. Curious.
State of the art technology and cutting edge performance doesn't necessarily come easy. Most countries thought it was worth it to field the best interceptor in the world.
>>62132019>until Panavia TornadoLol.multirole combat aircraft arrived in the 1960s with the F-4 Phantom II.the F-105 Thunderchief was intended to be 'multirole' but wasn't much air-to-air or dogfight capable, as was the F-111
>>62132185This.>saw onlineor (especially) in video games
>>62130866Well, "yes" that is why the Luftwaffe had a number of training facilities at Luke AFB in Arizona til '83. Better weather meant more flying hours and more training.
>>62131741Neat. Now understand that those accidents with the USAF were the foundation that kept the Luftwaffe losses lower.Flight Manuals for high performance aircraft are often penned with pilot's blood.
>>62131811>because you used it as an interceptorIt was designed as an interceptor, and intended to be used as one. Huh. Get back to me when you stop thinking a hammer can be used as a wrench, you obtuse mong.
The Starfighter was objectively an excellent fighter. Incredible performance and a significant technological leap.Project Feather Duster I and II found it was a better dogfighter than F-86, F-100, and even F-4. Erich Hartmann in his last interview called it a good plane, just not something Germany needed. The Lockheed scandal was only part of the debacle. It wasn't just Lockheed bribing their aircraft where it shouldn't go, but bribing for their aircraft to get the contract germany wanted: nuke capable supersonic strike package, a mission that requires moving very fast at low altitude. Combine that with German pilots only having 1/3rd the training time that American pilots had and you have a disaster.Look at accident rates of other 1st gen Mach 2 fighters/interceptors, namely EE Lightning and Mig-21, you'll be surprised.>Witness me Johnson
>>62132952Starfighters are the pinnacle of skill issue.Just fly better lmao
>>62132952Also if you call it an interceptor you have terminal retardation
>>62130866>be germans>use what is basically a rocket as an as a low ground bomber and CAS plane>wonder why your pilots are dying en masse>be italians>use it as an interceptor as the manual says>not a single problemYeah, it was the plane fault
>>62132994How is it not? Isn’t that what it was intended to do first? Doesn’t seem like it can do anything else besides zoom up to high altitude as fast as possible and blast bombers.>>62133201To be fair Lockheed kinda misled the krauts into thinking it could do CAS, though they really should have known better.
>>62131049jej
>>62132033the only plane ever to get an air to air kill on an astronaut
>>62132495>>62133444QRD?
>>62133463It shot down 2 airlines and a swede draken did a low manuever that the ruskie tried to follow and he lawn darted
>>62131049>>62133443I don't get it?
>>62133463>hit one South Korean airliner in 1978, killing two and forcing an emergency landing>crashed into an Argentinian airliner with no survivors, pilot claims he did it on purpose>Shot down a second South Korean airliner in 1983 (KAL 007) with no survivors. The airliner was positively identified as civilian and still deliberately shot down. As for the astronaut, an Su-15 is thought to have been implicated in the training incident that killed Yuri Gagarin.
In the Netherlands, the scandal was even worse because literal prince-consort was caught accepting bribes.
>>62133463actually just a theory about the crash of yuri gargarin's mig 15, that it was caused by a low flying flagon that passed within 10 ft of his plane.
>>62131020It was Luftwaffe Starfighters that did an inauthorized flyby at the funeral of the greatests Stuka ace ever, Hans Rudel.
>>62133528>>Shot down a second South Korean airliner in 1983 (KAL 007) with no survivors. The airliner was positively identified as civilian and still deliberately shot down.The ID is considered murky but regardless, this incident caused GPS to be made available to civilians world wide.
>>62133407Nope, it was intended as a daytime air superiority fighter. The interception role was something the F-102/6 was intended for. The starfighter does have the characteristics of a good interceptor though
>>62133681- From the national Museum of the United States Air Force.Lockheed F-104C StarfighterDesigned as a supersonic superiority fighter, the F-104 was produced in two major versions. Armed with a six-barrel M-61 20mm Vulcan cannon, it served as a tactical fighter, and when equipped additionally with heat-seeking Sidewinder missiles, as a day-night interceptor.>as a day-night interceptor.You have been corrected.
>>62133715nigger, are you retarded? the question was "what was it intended to do first" not "what did it do later"By that logic you think the F-4 was designed as a dogfighter because that's what it eventually did
>>62133765>>62133765>Nope, it was intended as a daytime air superiority fighter>Nope, it was intended as a daytime air superiority fighter>Nope, it was intended as a daytime air superiority fighterAww, you mad the USAF's own museum said you were a witless nonce?
>>62133779get better bait. not my fault you cant read
>>62133808Say the demonstrated illiterate.Well done, you utter mong.
The German F-104G is/was super fun to fly WT.
>>62133817I think you mean "said the demonstrated illiterate" ;)
>>62131119>>62131672>>62131675you guys too huhcan't wait for all my fellow 20-something bongs to forget the utter incompetence we have witnessed after 14 years of conservatives who know the price of everything and the value of nothingit's gotten so bad that to avoid scaring the boomers into voting for more obvious and visible decline, the Labour party basically has transformed itself into what the Conservatives were at the start of those 14 years. Now we wait and see if they were just pretending to be retarded or if they actually believe the same policies that got us into this shit are what will get us out of it.
>>62133989>labour will fuck up in the next 10 years so hard, that no one wants to vote them anymore>the memory of Tories is still in so they aren't an option either>LibDems winning by doing nothingimagine that scenario
>>62134006Definitely not gonna be thisthe two party system of the UK is extremely hard to crack. Consider how the Conservatives have done an indefensibly shit job at literally everything and yet they still got the 2nd most seats, twice as many as the lib dems. So many people just don't pay attention and vote red/blue based on what they've always done. My granddad straight up told me he was voting Conservative in 2024 because of the taxes in the fucking 70s, not even the last Labour government which ended in 2010, but the 1970s. Millions of people have already decided how they will vote in the next three elections, right now, no matter what actually happens to them, how the parties change, or what the UK's situation is.Anyway this is definitely off-topic so I'm stopping here.
>>62133481Pakistani f104s shot down a lot of Indian air force planes
>>62131811>>62132893not really, both the F-104S and F-104ASA came in two different configurations, CBO (All weather fighter/bomber) and CIO (All weather fighter/interceptor)we also suffered a quite high accident rate, granted not as high as Germany’s, but still significant nonetheless
>>62130972hnnnnng sexo
>>62130866>b-but she killed the valkyrie>implying ICBMs didn't render the concept of a supersonic, high altitude nuclear bomber obsolete>Implying the Valk didn't deserve it for being uglyI love this stupid little lawn dart more than you can ever know, the only thing she did wrong was not kill more krauts
>>62134044Sometimes I wonder if it's just our politics that are especially retarded but then I read a thing or two of what's happening in Europe and realize nah we're averagely retarded
>>62131741I think the main reason for this was that the USAF mostly operates over north american desert. Whereas whenever a German crashed a F104 it would hit someone's house, or at least near it. So the publicity levels were different
>>62135003>but then I read a thing or two of what's happening in Europe and realize nah we're averagely retardedThe worst red state corruption doesn't compare to Hungary and the rural ignorance is just about the same.
>>62133808she looks like sh'd like strawberries with wiped cream
>>62131379>>62131396Canadians were actually using them in West Germany for the exact same low-level strike role and ran into the exact same problems of trying to use the Mach 2 high altitude interceptor in a terrain-hugging strike role in West German weather conditions and ran into the exact same accident causes. No CF-104 was ever meant for use in the air defence role of continental Canada (that was the CF-101's job).
At Mach 0.8 at sea level the F-104 is no less agile than other jets.At that speed in thick air it is limited by pilot/airframe Gs, not by lift.The Mirage III that they were competing against would have likely been more dangerous in that role, since they suffered much more from ground turbulence buffet, which would have made the workload of low visibility navigation and strike even more difficult for the pilot.What made the F-104 dangerous in that regime was the absence of modern avionics like moving map displays, HUD and automatic terrain radar.Pilots back then would have to compare raw radar returns against special maps in order to navigate at low level in low visibility conditions.Later aircraft designed for that specific mission, like the Jaguar and the Tornado had similarly high wing loading, but they had specific avionics designed to make life much easier for the pilot.The F-104 also suffered from unfavourable landing characteristics, with high approach speeds, that were even higher if the blown flap system was not operating correctly.Dead stick landings would have to be very fast, although this was not that common due to the poor glide ratio.The aircraft also suffered from the same engine reliability issues that plagued basically all jets of the era, at least compared to today.
>>62136784Based ratThe F-104 was too fast for its time, it wasn't until boomers that planes could let ot rip
>>62131741What's the comparative number of fatal accidents?
>>62132875I'm pretty sure there's still a Luftwaffe squadron out in Goodyear, Arizona.
>>62133765>the F-4 was designed as a dogfighter because that's what it eventually didThe F-4 was designed to do everything, with fuckloads of power, armament load and decent maneuverability because the original program was for a common basis platform for all navy planes. But that didn't go through so they sold it as an interceptor. However, the original design goal is exactly what it ended up becoming. The main reason it's remembered poorly is the USAF's dogshit pilot training. The navy and the kikes used it to great effect even as a dogfighter.
>>62131020Hartmann (best WW2 fighter ace) was literally discharged from the Bundeswehr for opposing the Starfighter you dumb moron. Defence minister Strauss got a fat bribe from Lockheed and forced the Starfighter through while silencing any criticism or concerns.
>>62131672>meanwhile Greens literally blocking repairs of the Autobahn because cars are le bad At this point every party seems to hate infrastructure. Unless it’s in East Germany. There we have to keep pumping money to cuddle our beloved snowflakes.
>>62142287Hartmann was a retard who didn't fight in Korea and understand the new meta
