The Vietnamese army recently green light production of their homegrown BMP-1/2 after its metallurgy was found to be sufficient. This version is slightly bigger, taller, and more angular so that ERA can be installed and because it’s easier to produce. It’s going to feature a heavier but I think more powerful engine, FCS, the 73mm Grom gun unfortunately, and other stuff.I think the Vietnamese should only produce a few to gain experience and go on to develop their own IFV but idk. The BMP is pretty lightly armored, especially the BMP 1 and 2. What do you guys think?
It's probably fine
>>62186314>AT-3No. Just no.
>>62186314Of all the IVFs to copy they picked the worst one.Good on them for not skipping 60 years of IVF evolution i guess, gotta learn what works for you.
What will they use it for in their strategy?This is the starting point in everything, if it's practically a police vehicle like many army vehicles in the Philippines are, then something better could be produced.
Well they probably need a large amount to get experience on running them on a brigade level before they can figure out their needs for a future model. They have a pretty complex terrain so I guess it makes sense to use a bmp for trial if they need something that can cross rivers and they're also small enough to navigate their dense terrain. They're not good vehicles but they're simple and cheap to make.
>>62186328> having their own domestic The Ukraine-Russian is literally causing the Vietnamese to shit themselves as we’re speaking. Vietnam can’t buy arms from Russia anymore so they’re getting desperate and creating their own military industrial complex from scratch. This is why Vietnam’s arms procurement has been so shit recently compared to their neighbors who are getting premium built arms from reliable suppliers.
>>62186314Is it also amphibious?Seems like it should since vietnam
>>62186323Newer versions are SACLOS aren't they? Probably more then enough to deal with chinese light armour, isn't it?
>>62186329> What will they use it for in their strategy?Honestly don’t know but Vietnam is seeing how badly the Philippines are getting harassed by the Chinese so they’re starting to get serious on their arms production. The issue is that they have barely any experience in manufacturing big arms so they’re just throwing anything they have at the board to see what works. I guess having something is better than having nothing. Also, this (>>62186343)
>>62186332> have a pretty complex terrain so I guess it makes sense to use a bmpYeah that’s a good point. I think the Vietnamese should probably ask for help from SK or just buy some stuff from them since there are similarities in their terrains and this likely translates to the needs for the vehicles
>>62186365I think Thailand could be a good equivalent for what Vietnam needs. They bought a lot of the old strykers now that we are upgrading to the A1 and they also use the bv206 which is a pretty ideal for dense and wet terrain. Korea is a shitshow because of all the mountains but they could also have some stuff that works in Vietnam.
>>62186348Yeah it swims pretty well
>>62186387> old strykersI think the strykers would be pretty ideal depending on how much it would cost to buy them off of Thailand’s hand. The Stryker is a couple tons heavier but it might be fine> bv206Not sure if this would be a good alternative since it features barely any armor at all. It would probably be better as an defacto APC or just a transport vehicle
>>62186314>the 73mm Grom gunI think anything would be better than this, even the north korean solution of dual 14.5mm mg's would work better than the shit-ass grom... Surely they could scrape together some kind of auto cannon, or at least produce a simple auto cannon over a fucking GROM!
>>62186397why is this water shield in the front not deployed? i saw and heard it is already dangerous even with the shield that the drivers compartment gets floated.
>>62186418>>62186314The only area the Grom is superior to even a 14.5mm MG is through its armor piercing capability, which would largely be supersedded by a better missile launcher, use a Fagot or Malyutka instead of the antique ass Sagger, having it mounted on top would be less cumbersome than the shitty reloading system for the Sagger anyways (even if it exposes the crew). I like the BMP 1-2, but Ukraine has showed that weapons designed for the wars of yesterday are not equipped to handle today's battlefield, especially the scary ass future battlefield.
>>62186314Even Indogs can produce their own local tank and IFV. So much for the great MIC that Vietnamese faggots on /k/ keep boasting about, most advanced in Southeast Asia my ass
>>62186437>the great MIC that Vietnamese faggots on /k/ keep boasting aboutwhere the hell have you even seen Vietnamese fuckers brag about their MIC, they are probably about 40-50~ years behind even some of their less known neighbors.
>>62186441You must have missed the buttmad Viet here who keeps screaming about how Vietnam is the only country in the region to produce its own ammunition (false) and hyping up its shitty Kh-35/Neptune knockoff VCM-01
>>62186413Well obviously the bv206 even the armored variants aren't ifvs but they're pretty good for deploying troops in rough terrain and fording rivers. Just saying it seems like a smart choice to supplement recce or marine units with all the rivers and long coast line
>>62186449>shitty Kh-35/Neptune knockoff VCM-01I have seen the thread(s) about this, it is a piece of garbage, but as far as I know they didn't even have any real (non-cold war) guided missiles. I dont really think he was boasting about it like they did something cool, for a 'cong building a domestic missile (even if it is a copy) is a massive achievement, allow the military autist to celebrate his own country's developments (even if they are admittedly shit.
>>62186387>>62186453>Bv206Thailand also uses the much more heavily armored Warthog which was used by the Brits in Afghanistan and the Ukrainians
>>62186454If it was just remarking on it, but the cunt was claiming it is the first cruise missile built in the region (again, false) and using it as the basis to pretend the Vietnamese military was superior to its neighbors and was not in actual fact a PLA-tier mass of 1970s Slavshit and captured American equipment manned by conscripts still wearing pith helmets
>>62186314What other weapons could come from Vietnam?, will we see some more oddball vehicles, or will they play it super safe with their initial procurement and development? I want to see them do some cool shit like Cuba's SPG BMP's or the BMPT-62's that Algeria was tricked into buying.How long will it take to even build a robust MIC? 20 years?
>>62186343>>62186355to add on this, previously vietnam imported plenty of tech and shits from israel too. both wars fucked their chance to link back to old arms buddies, so they considered even korean and various european partners for imports
>>62186470LOL, I guess he is 'special' just like their new BMP clone. We can only hope an improved version will be quickly drafted and put into production (Preferably with an autocannon and some internal layout changes.) I want to see a strong Vietnam simply because both them and I despise the Chinese, and this mutual hatred makes us closer.
>>62186352"What" chinese light armor?
>>62186418>>62186436the Grom is literally one of the worst guns ever, literally anything else would be betterIn the Ukraine war videos I don't think I've ever even seen an actual video where it's fired in combat, thats how bad it is
>>62186490Given that a clash between China and SEA countries is likely to take place on the disputed islands or in mountainous jungle, its more likely you will see the PLA use their amphibious IFVs and light tanks rather than the MBTs
>>62186490>"What" chinese light armor?APC's, their various APC's, and the Type 15 light tank (if it is used in the AO I guess, its meant for mountains.). There are lots of potential targets for such a 'humble' miss-ile.
>>62186508This is what China-Vietnam border looks like
>>62186517>their various APC'sI meant AFV's
>>62186518Urbanized terrain doesn't automatically mean a heavy armor playground especially when it comes to tropical third world countries with crappy infrastructure. Plenty of unreinforced bridges not designed for heavy cargo traffic and can't take more than 30 tons. This is a problem even in more developed Asian countries like Taiwan, Japan and South Korea, hence why the Type 10 etc exists
>>62186429No clue dude but I hope the driver is doing fine. The Vietnamese version has a few alternations so maybe one of these alterations is that the drivers hatch is water proof. Maybe
>>62186518The last time the PLA attacked Vietnam from this same crossing even their lighter Type 62s had trouble getting bogged down
>>62186490Do you mean what as in they are all Fugazi or do you ask for the designation?I mean the Type 63A and the Type 15.
>>62186437>>62186449You’re really gonna base the entire opinion of the Vietnamese population off of one guy. Go talk to a Vietnamese conscript or something. Even they know that their military is shitty and want nothing to do with it. The only one bragging about the Vietnamese military are ultranationalists out trolls. You sound like you’re getting baited
>>62186551Go suck a Viet ladyboy off if you like them so much. Faggot
>>62186453Yeah that actually sounds like a pretty good choice. Vietnam should buy a few to suffice and maybe reverse engineer like they do with everything they receive
>>62186551All of Asia should really just be its own internet hellscape of their own creation. North America, Japan, South Korea, Australia+NZ, Taiwan and Singapore I guess, and Europe can all be in one section. Everyone else can stay in their own box. There is nothing you'll want from the 3rd world anyway online.
>>62186470https://desuarchive.org/k/search/text/VCM/page/1/Negro. Just move on already. You’re still complaining about some dude you argued with 4 months ago
>>62186418>>62186436>>62186493Huh. I was just talking to someone about how since Vietnam can't use chinese designs that they should produce liscenced variants of North Korean light armor with as many western add on as they could get, we even talked about how a verison of the VTT-323 would be a much better choice than the BMP. Since the Norks insist on high amphibious mobility (waterjets errywhere) they would serve Vietnam's needs nicely.
>>62186630I think it’s going to be a bad idea to cooperate with NK with what’s going on right now. Just work with SK and see what they can give. Plus, Norks have such bad quality control that I see a thread or two every week about Russians getting screwed over by them
>>62186649>>62186649The way to avoid political issues is to make it a defacto joint US/DPRK/RoK project with Vietnam acting as the middlemen. Liscence produce the hull designs themselves but replace the 14.5mm turrets with Bushmasters, usse cummins engines and transmissions and smack a South Korean ATGM on it. That way all Vietnam would have to build is the hulls.I am quite aware of the political issues but the Nork designs having such universal amphibious capability as well as the diversity of designs seem like a very good fit for Vietnam and it would reinforce their neutral status. Besides, this thing would look fucking awesome with a Bushmaster on it:
>>62186697> defacto joint US/DPRK/RoK project with Vietnam acting as the middlemenCraziest plan I’ve ever heard but it might actually work. > Vietnam would have to build is the hullsAnybody else should build the hull. That thing looks as lightly armored as a food truck
>>62186735It's actually reasonably well armored, it's based off of a light tank.
>>62186735It's a scout APC/IFV version of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_1981_%22Shin%27heung%22#
>>62186314>>62186323>>62186328>Modified BMP>AT-3They probably have the Soviet era production package (blueprints for the factory and machinery) which is the reason why they're making them in the first place. Designing a new IFV and new ATGM would require a domestic industry to exist along with the human talent behind it.
>>62186397>>62186429Real pucker moment since if there's any mild wave/turbulence then the shape of a BMP's hull can plow down nose first into the water. The engine being in the front already makes them front heavy and their center of buoyancy is offset to the rear too. The nose diving tendency of BMP-1/2s is part of the reason why the BMP-3 was adopted off the weird light tank chassis which is rear engined for center of mass purposes.
>>62186493They get used as kind of shitty inaccurate howitzers from what I've read. There's a video of some Ukrainian slapping rounds in through one with the gun elevated and he's using the wooden mallet that comes with the BMP-1 to help seat rounds that don't ram in too well or when the breech doesn't want to close up on its own (sticky breech being not that abnormal).>>62186436But yeah the Grom is a piece of shit, you'd be real lucky to hit a MBT sized target past 500m (yes they're that shitty) and even then it was so shit it couldn't do jack shit to a T-55.>proofs>A BMP-1 was to fire against an obsolete T-55 tank at 800 meters (the target was not moving). And the result of the trials? Of 50 shots, only 17 did hit the tank - others were carried off their trajectory by the wind. The shells that did hit made their impacts under different angles – some ricocheted, some did not, but in the end, not a single shell managed to penetrate the vehicle. After the trials, a driver just drove off with the undamaged tank – a fitting testament to the inefficiency of the Grom gun.
>>62186531Bridges have always been the first infrastructure that will be blown up hence why any military worth their salt invested heavily on their own bridge, pontoons, etc>type 10Type 10 was conceived mainly because japanese rail infrastructure (that isn't shinkansen) is mostly of the narrow gauge variety (cape gauge, or 1067mm) and it cannot transport the larger, heavier Type 90 due to bridge weight limit, tunnel size, etc. Taiwan and South Korea didn't really need to transport their tanks using trains hence why theyve no qualms getting heavier tanks (M1A2, K2, etc)Even vietnam bought T-90S which isn't exactly "lightweight">>62186387>bv206 which is a pretty ideal for dense and wet terrain.No they're not
>>62186323>AT-3It is possible to make them semi-useful, examples being the RAAD and Susong Po. Both upgrade them to use fiber optic lines, SACLOS and a vastly upgraded warhead. Since both are offered as upgrade kits (half a dozen nations offer upgrade kits) for existing missiles Vietnam might be using something like that as a intrim solution using their existing stocks. Since the designators the upgrades use are used with several other more modern missiles upgrading to a more modern system after they use up their existing AT-3 stocks should be simple.
>>62186314Better than a BMD and the new engine should make a difference. Use tanks for assaults pls
>>62187022They should just use a Cummins and call it done, they seem to be rapidly becoming the global leader in putiing good engines into bad armor.
>>62186314Do they have the funny bunda fuel tanks?
>>62186470dont fucking argue with Viet Tankies, most of Viet shit on the absolute state of our Army on daily basis. They will fucking move their goal post whenever you point out anything wrong with the VNPA
So how fucked is Vietnam in a conventional war with China?Tbh can they even pull off guerrilla warfare nowadays? Decades of counter insurgency equipment such as drones and thermals have been developed since then.
>>62187111They still have a Red Guard type mass mobilization system so they can pull off hueg swarms of infantry if need be and the ground between them is terrible.
>>62187111It all depends on china's objective. I doubt they wanted full scale invasion of vietnam but they do want the EEZIt will be a naval war and any incursion into Vietnam would be to neutralize their air force and shore defences
>>62187111I think vietnam prefers to rumble in the jungle instead of fighting conventional wars
>>62186314Lmaoo reversed copied both russian and chink(a Russian copy) into a single retarded design,lmaoo this jungle riceniggers sure are retarded, Vietnamese chink riceniggers need to stick to their old strategy of guerrilla warfare(nigger warfare) to win against the chink.developing(ironic desu) 70yo crap won't win them any war.
>>62186314>What do you guys think?waste of resources, Vietnam is rich enough now to build a proper IFV that's not a death trap
>>62186314Doesn't seem like it would compare well to Chinese IFVs. Why can't we license them our own stuff?
SEA is looking at the Israeli back Philippine military and are seeing the new metaLight tanks (Sabrah OC donut steel) and IFVs (Guarani and Pandur 2)
>>62186323>>62186352>>62186971>>62187008wikipedia says they're producing serbian upgraded variants under license in vietnam
>>62189414its this one i guess
>>62189414>>62189427Makes sense, the upgrade kits are suspiciously identical although how you would rebuild it into soming useful is pretty obvious. Serbia is a decent choice since they are Axis of Evil adjacent but not actual members, just grumpy.
>>62186314Makes sense. They probably figured out they will be able to sell them to Russia. North Korea is doing the deal of the century by selling Russians parts for T-62/T-55 tanks. Also - the real question is: are those BMPs GOOD ENOUGH for Vietnam - or not? If the answer is positive - they chose well.
>>62187259I don’t know why Vietnam doesn’t do this. I recently heard a Central Asian nation was able to make their own APC/IFV. Vietnam likely has a bigger and more developed industry so they definitely can make their own IFV but chooses not to do so. I hope the Vietnamese only makes a couple of these BMPs and realize how shitty they are and then start to draft new plans for a better IFV that’s more suited for their doctrine and environment>>62189144Do you think it would be viable for Vietnam to just pump out heavily armored APCs and IFVs instead of tanks? They definitely cost less than tanks and are probably more sufficient for the terrain
>>62186314Heavy APC do not suit the terrain, which the Vietnamese might have a more accurate understanding of then some tweeny retard on 4chan.There is no reason to develop yet another new APC when the format is long perfected. The terrain doesn't favor IFV level armor which is why they still use M113 FOV too. The dinks need light tracked mobility to carry stuff and shoot now and then.
>>62189414>>62189427>>62190029Vietnam needs to let go of the past. There are better things in the future
>>62190655> Heavy APC do not suit the terrainWhy don’t they just make the tracks more wider or use wheels for the APCs instead?
>>62190666Listen Satan, we don't care how much you love Xi we ain't listening to you.
>>62188955> Why can't we license them our own stuff?Because of China and probably because the US and Vietnam aren’t close enough but it’s not like the Stryker or Bradley are top secret arms.The Philippines invited the US to their land and now they’re getting constantly harassed by China as they don’t want the US to be anywhere near them
>>62187050I think they have a mini version of it. You can kind of see a log on the back of the BMP
>>62186483I mean, it's not like the west isn't looking for anti Chinese allies right now.
