Hey /k/ I need the hive mind. I'm writing a novel that will revolve around a WW3 story where the (non-nuclear) war lasts from 1978 til 1982. The main parts of the story already exist in my brain but I cannot come up with a good reason why the Warsaw Pact would attack the west. I want something rather plausible and perhaps creative (e.g. not just "hurr we gonna sack West Berlin")The only thing I can come up with are soviet fears over the development of Trident SLBMs. Something like >Shitsky, with the Trident they will be able to deliver highly accurate decapacitation strikes with little to no warning time for us. We must sack the rest of europe before they got these missiles in Numbers and fuck up our land-based ICBMs with themBut to be quite honest I'm not sure if it sounds plausible at all. Shoot, it doesn't even sound really watertight to me. Plus the Trident I (C4) wasn't that much more accurate than the Poseidon, just longer-ranged. Only the Trident II (D5) became the CEP-beast but wasn't fielded before 1990 so way too late for my timeframe.So can you help me come up with a better causus belli? It doesn't have to be 100% true to real historic events/developments but should be plausible and believable.
>>62469263just steal from red storm rising lol
>>62469263You need a bargaining friction that cannot be resolved through diplomacy. High tech shit can be used to get the outcome of a war without going to war by negotiations, so one side should have imperfect knowledge that allows them to disregard this disparity and ensures that they feel war is preferable to settlement.
>>62469263> causus belli The Kennedy assassination. In the unfictionalized world, the Russians were forced to confirm the reality of the fake moon landing to avoid war
>>62469263Steal from MW2. An extremist terrorist cell in the WP frames their attack on American operatives to begin their desired confrontation with the west.
>>62469273Everybody knows Red Storm Rising man^^ But for a second I thought about some Terrorist detonating a nuke on top of the Moscow TV tower...>>62469281I hear ya, that's my thought too. I just can't think of a solid reason. >>62469294Nah, sounds a bit too far. How about this: Brezhnev gets assassinated by some internal Terrorists or rogue political/military circles because they want to force or prevent something. But the thing spirals out of control so they try to frame a western nation for the assassination and go to war?
>>62469294*And if you want "Warsaw Pact would attack the west." then make it a preventive strike after the US issued an ultimatum demanding recognition of the reality of the fake Moon landing.
>Carter and Brezhnev meet for something like peace talks, nuclear disarmament or something. >Some rogue hawks don't like the idea at all and blow up the entire meeting with western-made explosives>Soviets get mad as fuck because they think it was the west who took the chance to get rid of Carter too.
>>62469310>Nah, sounds a bit too far.life imitates art
A bombing in East Berlin gets pinned on British or Americans after smuggled materials from the Berlin airlift show up at the bombing site, so the USSR rolls in on West Berlin in a "Special Military Operation", forcing NATO to fight their way through East Germany to relieve the trapped Berlin forces, which spirals into a full conventional war.
>>62469316>1975 Leningrad Nuke Power Plant disaster happens a bit later and gets way worse to Chernobyl tier>Soviets don't want to be seen as incompetent>Frame western intelligence circles for an act of terror
Neither side would attack the other Monke sytle. Too much was at stake and nuclear weapons were taken as a serious means of warfare. It would most probably start as a continuous escalation from some border incident.Something like this.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict
>>62469322This sounds rather interesting. Perhaps there was clear evidence of a western submarine being close in the baltic ocean when it happened?
>Exercise Reforger [insert year of your choice] going on>US forces on exercise engaged by nervous/untrained/etc Soviet border guards across border not knowing it isnt a legit invasion >US shoots back in self defense, other units nearby get pulled into what everyone now believes is the start to a war>escalates locally before either sides commanders find out/calm things down>by the time higher command gets involved its a major incident with dozens dead and locals on both sides of the wall/border/wherever panicking thinking ww3 kicked off>escalates further from there until actual ww3 commencesJust spitballing here
>>62469322>>62469350Let's steal a bit from the Chernobyl Miniseries. As you might remember the KGB knew from the Leningrad plant that the graphite-tipped control rods were incredibly dangerous. But since soviets cannot fail they made sure the knowledge was burried even to experts, so outside the KGB really knew about this.So here would be our cause of war:>Mid 1977 another accident happens at the plant. This time it kabooms like Chernobyl and the Soviet Union's second largest city gets Pripyat'd. So it's a major strike to the SU's economical power.>After a few weeks the KGB knows exactly why it happened and fears that they will be blamed and disbanded because they censored the thing with the graphite-tipped control rods.>When it happened there was a W-German Navy submarine right off the coast just by coincidence. That would be reasonable since they operated in the baltic on a regular base.>To divert suspicion the KGB knits a story that a w-german sabotage unit made the power plant go kaboom>WP goes to war as some sort of punitive expedition against W-Germany.OP: Since you wrote about a non-nuclear war you would have a great reason now. >Soviets want to look as the good guys for all the world to see. Good guys who also just had to suffer from radioactive destruction. So they tell everybody and their mother>Look at us, we don't use nukes, we don't even threaten to use them because we're the good guys here. We also just want to take down the evil western german government.
>>62469393Teeehee sweet. One could even expand it. Perhaps there were previous terror attacks within the soviet union where the perpetrators were soviet muslims or something. KGB is under extreme pressure because they can't stop them. Then Leningrad happens but is unrelated to the terror attacks. KGB knows about the german submarine so they see it as a perfect opportunity to present themselves as the heroes who finally found out who was responsible for all those terror attacks.
>>62469414>>62469393Aaaah this is fucking golden.I just checked: The predominant wind direction for Leningrad / St. Petersburg comes straight from the west. See pic related for the power plant's location. It would be perfect. The plant explodes like Chernobyl and Leningrad gets the brunt of fallout and radiation. It'd be a complete loss for the Soviet Union. If that wouldn't be a reason to go to war then I don't know what would be one.
>>62469263You can't have WW3 be started because of one thing(don't even start with those incidents where it almost started because of bad radars).Take George R.R. Martin's work for example.Who is responsible for the Red Wedding?Was it the Lannisters?Tywin and Kevan received an offer from the Freys to end a war they did not start.Was it the Freys then?The Freys were betrayed by the Starks.So it was the Starks?Robb took a maiden to bed and he followed the laws of men and honour when he took Westerlings to Riverrun.Who won the Battle of the Blackwater Bay?Was it the Imp?He just burned the ships, the cavalry was crossing upriver.Was it Tywin?He would not get there in time if not for Mace.Was it Mace?His and Tywin's forces just mopped up the rebelling mounted part of the Baratheon host.Was it Edmure?Edmure's failure to respect orders did cause Tywin to pause and not pursue Robb but Mace was already at the Blackwater Rush.Do you understand?Something as complex and large as this can not have a single inciting incident.
>>62469263Consider a hilarious coincidence
>>62469474WWII literally started for the United States because of a single dramatic inciting incident.
>>62469518From the US perspective. It wasn't that one dimensional for the Japanese.
>>62469263Make it break out by accident. Some political crisis turns into a demonstration of will (picrel). Then someone gets jumpy and shoots someone on the opposite side. Things escalate, and before cooler heads can prevail, events cross the point of no return.
>>62469263Look up Able Archer '83 and Operation RYAN. The Soviets were 90% convinced that NATO was planning an imminent first strike, and in that situation, the only logical move is to preempt them by attacking yourself.
>>62469552Wrong picture. This document covers (among other things) what the US later learned about the Soviets reaction to Able Archere 83.https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:President%E2%80%99s_Foreign_Intelligence_Advisory_Board,_%E2%80%9CThe_Soviet_%E2%80%98War_Scare,%E2%80%99%E2%80%9D_February_15,_1990.pdf
>>62469263start it off as an inter german war.there where several cases were mines from the east where washed into the west during floodsit can escalate from there, mine blows up a kid and the DDR refuses to apologize, NVA member sent to the west to recover the mines try to defect a shootout occurs. Other NATO/Warsaw pact countries get involved before the US and USSR can calm things down.The war doesn't go nuclear because the nuclear powers don't really want to war but can no longer stop it. But can still prevent nuclear and other WMD escalation.
>>62469263Terrorist attacks are retarded as casus belli, because you can use them only if you really want war (its really easy to solve these diplomatically and noone in 70s had access to homegrew nuclear bomb). And SSSR was shitting itself, because they knew non-propaganda numbers. Especially in the late 70s (End of Vietnam, US army modernizing). What would be interesting, desu, would be this.>1973, suez war leads to ME countries putting oil embargo on US, UK and several other western countries. Oil price skyrockets.>After years of decline and austerity, SSSR's oil exports pull soviet economy back on track. >1975 US sees dangerous rise in power of SSSR in Europe. Western europe is becoming strategically dependent on cheap russian oil. Support of neutrality-aligned parties is rising.>1975-8: US, economically weakened from the Vietnam war and oil crisis, cannot put economic pressure on the EU. After reports of unsucesfull attempt by CIA to elect Mitterrand (while socialist, he supported alliance and EU integration) in 1974 leaks, European politics is in upheaval and d'Estaing decides to leave NATO (again). >1976, SPD wins by a landslide in West germany., PM Kohl promises era of industrialization>Beginning of 1978: By supporting radicals in the ME countries, SSSR has prolonged embargo for several years. Agent Topaz (Rainer Rupp) sends KGB documents regarding Northern Wedding 78. KGB analyses this as a threat of an imminent nuclear war. >May 1978: Explosions in Schwedt and Wilhelmshaven cripple european oil market. While US blames lack of maintenance, European media blame CIA. SSSR gives ultimatum, no IRBMs in europe, or no oil. >June 1978: West germany facing deepened oil crisis caused by Iran revolution, gives into soviet demands. >July 1978: Warsaw pact exercise Danube 78 begins, 10 years after invasion of Czechoslovakia. >August 1978: Danube exercise is concluded, yet armies are staying in their positions. >1st September 1978: Warsaw pact invades FRG.
>>62469263steal from World War III (1998)
>>62469630maybe instead of oil pipeline attack use US invasion of Iran in 78'. This would make more sense
>>62469263>already exist in my brainRookie mistakeGet that shit down right now
>>62469313>Anonymous (He/Him)
>>62469525None of the precipitating factors before our Rubicon event couldn’t be easily explained by already heightened Cold War tension on both sides.
>>62469263>February 2nd 1978, 0600: A pair of Luftwaffe F-104s on a training mission over the Baltic break off from their planned route and cross into East German airspace. Poor weather hampers Warsaw pact attempts to intercept the unidentified aircraft. The two aircraft split off, with one attempting to attack the headquarters of the Soviet 814th Independent Air Defence Missile Regiment at Rechlin but instead crashes into an apartment block due to poor visibility. The other drops a pair of 500lb bombs on Trollenhagen Air Base, destroying three East German Mig-21UMs and killing several ground crew before being shot down by a Soviet SAM>These attacks send Soviet and East German command into a panic, and all forces are placed on high alert, with close to 100 fighters scrambling towards the inner-German border, forcing a similar response from NATO. >The severity of the situation is compounded by the fact that the Luftwaffe fails to disclose the disappearance of two of their aircraft for several hours>At 0745 a firefight breaks out along a section of the Berlin wall. US security forces already on high alert mistakenly fire on a group of roughly twenty civilians attempting to cross the border. East German border guards believe that they are being attacked and return fire, with both sides taking casualties. Nervous officers exaggerate the severity of the situation to their superiors, leading to the deployment of additional troops and light armored vehicles to the site, which only intensifies the fighting. >0830:Commander of Group of Soviet Forces in Germany Yevgeny Ivanovsky, erroneously believing that NATO forces are attempting to assault into East Berlin orders 90th Guards Tank Division to take up blocking positions along routes into West Berlin>The 6th Separate Guards Motor Rifle Brigade is ordered to defend all routes into East Berlin at any cost until they can be reinforced>Listen I know things are scary right now, but it's gonna get way worse
>>62469518Retard alert
OP here. What do you guys think about >>62469393>>62469414I really like the concept of the Soviet Union having their own 1970s terrorist problems without being able to stop them for good. Imagine the political pressure that lasts on the KGB. Then the Leningrad Power Plant explodes, irradiates the second most important city of the Soviet Union and if the politicians find out that the KGB knew exactly that RBMK reactors could explode that way, they might behead the entire upper KGB echelon. But since the KGB has intel about that West German submarine that was in the baltics that very day, they try to save their own asses by blaming the germans for the exploded power plant.Is it just my fantasy or does that indeed sound believable and rather nice?
>>62469835Weird I wrote out an entire thing for anon and it didn't post.... But that post did.
>>62469474I think that's decent advice. Worldbuilding/history isn't A then B then C (and if it is it's fucking boring), it's A, and so B, which both led to C, or something like that. You shouldn't just be showing what happened, you should be showing why the people involved made the decisions they did.
>>62469839It's all too convienient and relies on post 9/11 mentality.>>62469630 this one sounds much better and believable but indeed it lacks grandoise plot line which might be more suitable for your book.
>>62469263When we are at it, how was especially your country prepared for WW3? I dont mean fallout shelters, but hardened command posts (everybody knows Cheyenne Mountain Base, but did you know here in Czechia we had a former underground nazi factory converted to hardened command post and military hospital? Picrel). I target this especially at east germans and poles. Do you know about former nuclear weapons storages? Underground complexes? Backup communication posts? We have quite a few here and I would like a fanfic regarding the WW3 from the view of warsaw pact without the soviets. To explain, there was not that many Soviet soldiers on the western flank of WP. German, Polish and Czech armies would be used for the primary push and soviets would replace them after they would be wiped out. What have I heard, most of the soldiers here had no hopes of making it just a few km over border, because they knew they were hopelessly underequipped. Would be interesting to ponder if they would even comply with orders.
>>62469294>>62469313fake - anon thinks the Soviets wouldn't immediately call out a fake moon landinggay - anon's a pronoun boy
>>62469873Rarely anything in our world happens in a vacuum and just because of one reason.The MW2's excuse for the WW3, which is quite relevant to this thread, has been ridiculed for more than a decade now.>terrorists killed 300-ish people and one American was found, oh well, of we go to invade America, I guessIt just doesn't work and when you find examples of something grand happening out of nothing in history, it is almost always because of events and needs of characters that are quite complex.Just look at the current Russo-Ukraine War and witness the absolute amount of theories and conspiracy theories that have formed around it.
>>62469941>relies on post 9/11 mentalityThinking terrorism is a post-9/11 phenomenon is itself an example of post 9/11 mentality, or at least zoomer nothing-happened-before-the-internet mentality. Besides the IRA's assassination of Lord Mountbatten in 1979 and Anwar Sadat in 1981 as well as a number of airplane hijackings, there was the PLO attempt to overthrow the Jordanian government. Going back even further there was the terrorist assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that started WW fucking 1.
>>62470348No. I meant full scale invasion as a response to terrorist act. I guess you are correct with WW1. Sort of. But even that was just a convinient opportunity to do something that was brewing for various reason for a long time.
>>62470372You mean like the cold war had been brewing for a long time by the 1970's?
>>62469941>causus belliIt's spelled "casus", propter linguam latinam.>relies on post 9/11 mentality.Which the readers of his novel will conveniently have. The casus doesn't need to be realistic and believable for 1970's readers, it needs to be realistic and believable for 2030's readers, which is a very different audience. At least if he wants to have a chance in hell of the thing being successful and turning into an after school special (do they even have those anymore? fuck but I'm old.)
>>62470348>assassination of Archduke Ferdinand that started WW fucking 1This is not true.Austria started a war against Serbia, what happened after that is purely human.
>>62470372>No. I meant full scale invasion as a response to terrorist actIt's not a simple terrorist act. What's listed here >>62469839 is an alleged terrorist act that turned the second largest/important city of the soviets into a radioactive wasteland.I like this approach because it plays with the stark differences and goals of the politbureau and the KGB and the Soviet's tendency to keep shit under the rug even if it will probably lead into a giant shitshow.
>>62470569>>62470372>Soviets have internal terror problems and KGB cant suppress them -> polit bureau puts KGB under pressure to deliver results "or else">After the first Leningrad accident in 1975 KGB has put a lid on all the facts around the graphite tipped control rods. Means nobody in the Soviet Union knows what could happen under extreme circumstances -> KGB would be to blame IF something happened>1977 Leningrad plant does the Chernobyl and irradiates the entire city because KGB has kept the lid on the most important informations on how to prevent such an accident -> If the Polit Bureau knew at least the heads of KGB would be cut off, perhaps even the entire KGB disbanded.KGB gets wind that a - completely unrelated to the accident - german submarine was in the vicinity when it happened -> KGB tells the Polit Bureau "It was the Germans, they sabotaged the plant. No, it wasnt a faulty design we made sure nobody in the Soviet Union knew about">Soviet Union goes to war because the civilian leaders believe the Germans actually caused the accident on purpose. -> KGB has a nice and clean vest because he found out "who really did it"
>>62470589>>62470569So the KGB would already be under massive pressure due to the terrorist acts. If it came to light that he was also sorta responsible for the explosion of the power plant then Brezhnev and his buddies would fucking kill every head in the KGB. So they do everything for a good Maskirovka including allowing their own country to start a war. Imho that's a fucking blast that deserves its own fucking novel. Perhaps some secret agent buddy stuff where a CIA and a KGB operative work togehter to prevent a fucking nuclear holocaust. But it WILL 1000% be a perfect cause of war for what OP wants to write.
>>62469263It's the rain fall season. There is a situation of unrest in Hungary. NATO has exercise in Austria to stabilise the region. Show of face.The situation worsening there is a attempted Putsch that gets blown out of proportion. Planes get shot down by friendly fire/unknown actors. Chaos and blinded leadership. NATO sends up spyplanes to get intel of what the fug is happening.The USSR assumes the troops in Austria are meant to help the putsch and capture Hungary under a fake referendum and new impose a new pro western government. After the Prague spring scare and " liberation". Once is a coincidence twice means war. Meant to create fake break away republics. The USSR uses it's power to take over Yugoslavia as neutral socialist republic. Combined with the peacekeeping troops left in Czechoslovakia form the previous liberation they pincer Austria in a preventative strike against the NATO troops there on exercise.
>>62469263Cuban missile crisis with autism involved>Swedes manage to build a batch of tactical nukes with French help>Emboldened by this the Scandinavian countries quickly form their military alliance after decades of waiting>Including Finland>Diplomatic shitshow starts and both USA and Soviets denounce the act as disrupting European stability>Tactical nukes are placed into Finland to halt possible invasion>Soviets place a naval blockade on Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark (some still NATO members)>Soviet general Namarov in meeting with Brezhnev, anticipating that any military action would escalate into ww3:Namarov: ... we would be prepared to immediately attack the United States in the event that Finland made any offensive move against this country.>Brezhnev: Attack who? Namarov: The United States. >(altered from https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1961-63v11/d21)>Finns shoot down two Soviet spy planes (Cuba shot down only one but shooting down two would have made USA invade IIRC)>Tanks start rolling all across Europe
>>62469263>AND THEN, SOMETHING HAPPENED!>continue with war story without mentioned what caused it
>>62470608 To add to that have people mass at the boarder and NATO troops move to control the situation. Into all this... This happens https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Pushkin_Tu-104_crash
>>62470589I really dig this plotline. Here are my thoughts for what could be fun additions: >Some big meeting of important communist party members or military leader takes place at the time of the accident (Not that improbable in St Pete). >Some important people die. >The KGB wants to shift the blame on HATO and also see the accident as a way to gain more power. >They succeed but it kind of blows in their faces, because some more radical elements come into power and demand war against Wectern terrorism.Also, the submarine does not have to be there by accident. Maybe some kind of reverse "Future War 198X" scenerio?>Important scientist or whatever decided to defect and to take some sekrit documints with him.>Uses the big meeting as a way to disappear (everyone else is blackout drunk).>The operation would go smoothly, but the NPP exploding means increased military presence in the area.>The sub was sunk or something, validating the KGBs accusations and also causing concern for Western powers that also try to conceal the truth about what really happened.
>>62469263Don't think about weapons, think about Politics.Give a Western leader who is very aggressive and scares the Soviets into doing something stupid (say a German leader who genuinely wants to reunify, by force if necessary, or a American President even more right wing than Reagan), or a Soviet leader who sees the coming collapse of the SU and decides to strike first, while the East is still strong or stronger than the West.Remember, amateurs study tactics, professionals stud logistics (and politics).Or have a key country collapse from internal strife and get everybody involved greedy. Italy or France, maybe (WW1 scenario), or a United States that is worse off after the Vietnam War.You don't have to cover it in depth, just use it to set the stage (like the opening roll from Red Dawn)
Take a page from Vonnegut. Make it something seemingly inconsequential and a little silly done by an incompetent present via nepotism, and it spirals into global disaster through a comedy of errors. Obviously turn down the comedic elements. His books are about the hubris and absurdity of the 20th century, he has a deep insight into that.
>>62469263Just make shit happen in the Balkans with Yugoslavia or something. Italy was going through The Years of Lead so maybe something spreading through that from the Balkans to Southern Europe.
>>62469263They could fight over:1. The arctic region2. Preventing the west from colonizing the moon3. Fighting over some resource thats only found in a 3rd world country (this one is the most realistic)4. Cold war spy has a grudge and tries to escalate the conflict
>>62469263There's an okayish story by a limey on Deviantart called the October War and is about the Cuban Missile crisis going hot after that one soviet submarines launches its nuclear torpedo at the US blockade that was mock-depth charging itI've wondered about a European war scenario over German reunification, which was opposed by a lot of the rest of Europe at the time as they expected a resurgence of Duetsch nationalism
>>62471055>right wing>Reaganlol
>>62469263A falseflag (or real) terrorist attack on East Germany made by a cell housed in West Germany, maybe an explosion in the Berlin Wall. Russia demands NATO to give up the terrorists, which NATO refuses as either they don't really exist and it's just East Germany blaming random civilians, or they are actually very important CIA assets that if given up reveals bigger fuckery caused by the USHonestly something between East and West Germany that escalates sounds the most logic one that wouldn't blow into all out nuclear war
>>62469263Push it a year further and make Afghanistan go hot with further and less covert Western involvement? Maybe make the U.S.S.R. sabotage the Camp David Accords (1978) to reignite Arab-Israeli hostilities?
>>62472562Nobody would go to war over a hole in the Berlin wall bro.
>>62469273fpbp
>>62469263>but I cannot come up with a good reason why the Warsaw Pact would attack the west.How about a grain war?Soviets were so incompetent with their land that at the sunset of their existence they had to buy grain from USA or face famines. So in your fictional world instead of trading they would go for a fertile land grab and shit spirals from there.
>>62479289Wasn't the issue with Soviet famines more that they were producing enough wheat to feed their union but their logistics were so shit and inefficient that they were incapable of properly distributing across the vast expanse of territory?
>>62469263go back
>>62469294Flat earthers should be lobotomized and turned into living mineclearers. You don't belong on /k/. We believe in ICBMs and orbital mechanics.
>>62471365>Take a page from Vonnegut.Here you go, OP. Delve into a dozen or so of Vonnegut's books from the early & mid 70s. You'll find all sorts of inspiration that can be adapted.Otherwise, you got some pretty decent feedback in general from the thread. Read it all, digest it, throw out the retarded shit and make a bullet list of points that are the least retarded. Use several points instead of just one or two. You're writing about a very complex set of circumstances, don't over-simplify. Also, don't over-explain. Leave gaps that the reader has to fill in (without getting a degree in 1970s political history).In big, general terms, I suggest going with a couple accidents and misunderstandings over the course of a couple months. Let time play a role, because a single event almost never sparks a war in one day. It's always an entire game board filled with moving pieces that spirals out of control over the course of months or years. At some point, someone starts shooting, probably because they think they're defending themselves, but something or someone important gets whacked. Attempts at diplomacy seem to be working, then something else happens that destroys everyone's confidence in any good faith. In the toxic environment that follows, more shooting blows up important stuff and diplomatic channels are terminated long enough for the war to take on its own momentum.Remember there was a worldwide fuel "crisis" at the time. Nobody could see a solution, so a resources grab is still a highly valuable plot point. But, perhaps more of an opportunistic grab during a critical moment in world tension and diplomacy breakdown.
Honnestly, try a "no russian". A false flag operation done by terrorist that dupes the KGB into thinking that they are funded and staffed by CIA agents.
>>62482753Oh, yeah. Nixon. that child was into some nasty shit, like treason against the U.S. by scuttling peace talks to shut down the Vietnam War. Try to imagine the embarrassing shit that could have been revealed in the 1970s rather than post-2000 that would have enraged several countries around the world, including the United States if it had been found out he fucked over peace talks to extend the war so he could win his re-election. Russians might well have fed that info into the world media just for giggles, which could have easily led to other embarrassing information war exchanges regarding just how active Russia was in Vietnam and other skullfuckery the CIA was involved in.You don't even have to be specific. "Everybody knows" the CIA was fucking the world over in the 70s, as well as the KGB. Let a couple of their operations accidentally intersect and the proxy war in Vietnam could have turned into a hot, direct war with numerous countries taking sides very quickly. This pre-dates the Iranian revolution during Carter, so Iran would be one likely ally to the U.S. against China & Russia ... with Cambodia thrown in, and maybe destabilizing Indonesia or Bangladesh for a general Asian landwar shitshow.The tensions and conflict would have drawn Europe into seriously heightened hostilities. There were already several very close calls that didn't escalate into WW III during the 1970s. Had SouthEast Asia been generally at war (from Yemen to the Philippines), there are dozens of triggers and events in Europe that could have tipped everything into a shooting war. Select carefully which countries are actually shooting at each other and which countries are using them as proxies to win the war without it escalating into a full-on nuclear WW III. Look at the current Ukraine & Gaza situation for examples of how some conventional war is preferable to escalating into something larger & worse.
>>62469263>til 1982Soviets saw a first strike opportunity during NATO Able Archer '83 excercises, but utltimately didn't go through with it because Brezhnev was terminally ill, and the Party & Security elements didn't trust that they wouldn't be coup'd in the fallout bunkers. Have some of this internal tension on the Russian side.
OP if you are looking for a spark to come from the west.Most of Western Europes student population where left leaning. But there where still a decent number of right wing and far right student movements. From more lose groupings in France, some fraternities in the low countries to some Crop and Burschenschaften that where very far right (and some still are). Being a few sane people in a sea of at times very aggressive leftists made them quite combative. A few of them deciding to do something stupid wasn't out of the question.It would be a state action, but those groups often had ties to right wing politics, secret services, the armed forces ect. So the soviets would probably take half a dozen armed rightwing students storming an embassy or breaching the iron curtain as an act of war.
>>62482808>Able Archer '83It's 83 not '83 for the name of the exercises. If you were trying to abbreviate 1983 you're a retard and you should go back.
>>62469552>Soviets were 90% convinced that NATO was planning an imminent first strikeThey never fundamentally believed the West had the nut for a first strike, whereas they did not clutch pearls over cracking a few gorillion eggs. It was an opportunity that tempted them enough to bet the Zero Sum Farm potentially. The rest is theater to cover their postwar asses or play stupid rather than trigger happy being found out after the fact.
>>62482822Retard alert
>>62469263do something about a miscommunication, either an accident during an exercice, an automous drone homing on some radar array, the other side thinking it is a strike to prepare invasion and lack of communication between them
>>62482855So all the things that have been done before?
>>62469263Have the US believe JFK was assassinated by the Soviets (the guy that shot him spent a lot of time in Russia anyway) and retailiate by ordering an assassination of the Soviet leadership as well as moving large amounts of missiles near the border. Than just have it escalate from there like Soviets trying to retailiate further, nukes in Cuba and south America and have the spark being a NATO fleet trying to push Russian subs out of the Kaliningrad area dropping depth charges at a safe distance and Russian subs sinking part of the fleet with nuclear torpedoes, some nukes fly and the Soviet decide they need to take over Europe before the US can move enough equipment in it to stop them. By doing this story you can touch on many historical events (jfk, Cuba missile crysis, the submarine standoff, etc...)
>>62469263What about Soviets give money, weapons and nukes to Egypt in exchange for exclusive access to Suez, Egypt nukes Israel and invade along the Arab league, Israel nukes back but they only gave a few nukes available by than, Israeli lobby convinces the US to come and save them Soviets massively increase their military support to the Arabs and send in a million volunteers, Egypt struggling to stop the American landings and almost losing Cairo panicking nukes the US, Nato gets called in and nukes fly towards the Arab countries killing hundreds of thousands of Russian volunteers as well as the locals, Russia calls in Warsaw pact, ww3 is on.
>>62469281Hi Spaniel when is the next vid I am really hooked
>>62482857yeah, all the things that nearly caused a warthe nearly part removejust make it more "intense", more problematic or stuff
Instead of going the obvious route of "crisis happens but it gets worse" do something different.have a crisis end up with both nations more or less agreeing that the nuclear arms race is too dangerous, mirror the real world arms treaties just make them more restrictive and have both nations actually get along a bit better for a while, have pretty much all of the medium and large scale events be proxy wars and have both the soviets and US focus more heavily on ideology and stopping the other expanding influence.The US agrees to these treaties and the slowing down of the arms race as they firmly believe they are well ahead and already capable of wiping the world out multiple times, they also believe the Soviets will collapse anyway and want to focus on not letting communism spread.The Soviets agree as they see the signs of stagnation and want to spend more on non millitary industry and keeping the warsaw pact together.after 5 or 10 years of this situation have both sides come out like this.
>>62483111US still obviously very anti soviet and has been constantly working to stop the spread of communism, money spent on the nuclear arms race is a lot lower but most of that money was funneled in to conventional millitary stuff.Soviet Union: Have the economy of the Warsaw pact be decently improved, all if not more (due to a stronger economy) of the saved money has gone back in to conventional arms, some have gone to insurgents and standard cold war stuff. Have the political situation differ greatly though, have the situation that happened at the end of the soviet union happen quite a bit earlier, have the army and other hardliners accuse leadership of leaving the country in great danger by 'working with' the USA and being so receptive to nuclear arms regulation, but since in this timeline the conventional millitary forces are much stronger and more influential you either get a coup or they just straight up get in to power, have them take a much much much more hardline approach to the cold war.From here you could either have this new hardline government take more extreme measures that lead to war, or you could have rumblings of a civil war that the US tries to help mediate but ends up angering the hardliners even more to the point where war happens.Some catalysts to this could be a successful afghan war, tensions over Germany and the now stronger and more hardline soviets refusing to back down, Suez 2.0, maybe one of the warsaw pact nations breaks away and the soviets fully go in on keeping it, leading to massive tensions and war.
>>62469263Just copy every historical casus belli: "We want your stuff"
>>62469263USSR's economic collapse starts a few years earlier and they decide to gamble everything on an invasion of NATO
>>62483120this
>>62470160Výpustek is based. Went there when I was 10.I wonder if the shafts where nukes were supposed to be placed in the event of war still exist.
>>62469263commies r badsimple as
>>62469263Have nukes gone off?
>kekkonen gets ill and dies>a new president rises to power>he is unable to keep balance between the west and the east>soviet premier pushes joint exercises in finland in the spirit of the YYA>after the exercises the soviet army doesn't leave>commies start to riot as they are reassured that now is the time for revolution>soviet army gives them weapons>finland falls into brutal guerilla war>shit spills over to sweden, orphanage or something is bombed in haaparanta>west backs sweden as sweden sends some love from bofors to the soviets>escalation escalates and soon NATO takes some hits>article five and UN peacekeeping operation>china backs usa in UN and puts preassure on ussr in siberia>soviets shit their beds and start a full scale war "in order to protect the rodina and international socialism"Rest you can imagine yourself.
>>62469294>He/HimYWNBAM
Just type "Nigger jew pajeet shitskin tranny" over and over again, for 248 pages, like Jack Nicholson in the overlook motel typing all work and no play makes jack a dull boy. It won't be any worse (or different) than what you might other wise write, and /pol/ will buy 10,000 copies.
>>62469263Because it is fun
>>62469281Based book recommendation
>>62469263>I want something rather plausible and perhaps creativeSoviet Permanent Representative to the UN is rushed to hospital with a broken bottle wedged in his rectum. He claims that he had been attacked by two masked Anglo-Saxon diplomats while he was working in his embassy quarters. The case is met with a flood of internationalist and anti-NATO statements in the Warsaw Pact press. The Premier of the Soviet Union cannot afford to ignore the incident and is forced to escalate.
Direct confrontation over Afghanistan shenanigans + Iranian revolution fails and America installs even more troops on the border with Soviet Union + African cia rebels sink some Soviet shippping + some military junta in South America goes full retard and kills Soviet ´advisors’
>>62502940kek
>>62469273FPBP, just make up whatever you want as long as it leads to your desired outcome. It doesn't even have to be logical; you could have a series of fuckups on both sides of the Iron Curtain that spiral out of control even though nobody actually wants to go to war
>>62505517After reading the thread I retract my last statement: use >>62469393 's idea instead, it's absolutely kino
>>62469263Here, have six>World in Conflict Strategy USSR’s economic decline starts much sooner than it did in reality. Facing economic ruin and near-certain collapse, but with the Soviet military still very much in it’s pre-Afghanistan prime, Brezhnev and the hard-liners decide to gamble everything on an all-out attack on Western Europe to plunder it of its industrial and human capital.>Sum Ting Wong Strategy This one’s technically outside your timeframe but I’ll throw it in anyway.United States/South Korea retaliates for the shootdown of KAL Flight 007 with limited airstrikes on Soviet airbases (should have happened, unironically), but rather than sit there and take the punishment, the USSR responds in kind, escalating into a general war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact.>Rambo III Strategy Reagan isn’t a spineless pussy and responds to the Soviets’ committing blatant genocide in Central Asia with throwing total military support behind the Brave Mujahideen Fighters of Afghanistan. Things escalate further and the USSR launches an invasion of Western Europe to try and catch NATO off-balance>Red Scorpion Strategy Ditto, but in Angola>Bottle in the Ass Strategy Yugoslavia collapses right after Tito’s death instead of limping on for another decade, NATO and the Warsaw Pact go to war over its carcass.>Second Berlin Blockade Strategy USSR cuts off Berlin again and starts shooting down US airlifters flying in supplies, prompting NATO to respond with air strikes and things just get worse from there
>>62469263Soviet submarine detected and sank during Northern wedding 78. Spiral out of control?Direct link is found between USSR and the red brigades after they kidnapped and killed Italian prime minister? Meanwhile Able Archer 78 is modified and high pressure make the soviets think NATO is really going in this time.
>>62508468Oh, and 78 is when the Moscow tangier Washington hotline is cut for an upgrade with satellites. It could have some technical issue at the worst possible time? Maybe a solar flare that the Soviet interprets as a new EW weapon.
>>62507973Test
>>62507973>KAL Flight 007Was a conspiracy between the US intelligence services and the Soviets to kill Larry McDonald.
>>62469263This dude crashes his Lada on the way to his post on 26 September 1983 and can't perform his duties due to femoral fractureNow comes Vladislav Vladimirovich Ustinov as a new duty officer, a zealous communist, Marxist, Leninist, and a firm believer in the righteousness and infallibility of the Soviet Union and that the capitalism should be brought down to its kneesHe reports the handful of launches, this puzzles the strategic high command with no idea how to adequately react without an all-out strike, chaos and panic spreads, then the conventional brass takes over the missile-heads and throws all the meat and metal over the borders to retaliate
>>62508543Oh shit, I missed the "1978 til 1982" partJust turn it into another false alarm incident and you're good to go
>>62469263 In 1978 Israel invaded South Lebanon, could have it that the Soviets Attempt to shore up their Arab allies and the US deploys a large force to counter Soviet attempts to reinforce Syria this leads to another Cuban missile crisis but since nukes aren't involved, both sides are more willing to play a game of chicken.It goes wrong and the US sinks a Soviet Freighter, could serve as another flashpoint to >>62469393
>>62469263Jimmy Carter was inept in Foreign policy. I would center it around a diplomatic mistake, a grain embargo consequence, or Jimmy making Americans drive 55 mph which leads to Americans going to Warsaw pact and running over kids with their 6.6L Firebirds with the Polish Chicken on the hood, mistaken by commie subjects as a secret military weapon.
>>62509161this
>>62469263The Soviet Endgame series of books takes place in an alternate timeline where Eagle Claw succeeded, consequently making the Iranian revolution peter out and winning carter a second term, so the Soviets scheme to involve the US in Nicaragua as a distraction for their invasion of Europe.Pretty well written books, I actually prefer them to RSR because the characters aren't all cliché caricatures and it uses actual historical figures as characters.So far the books aren't finished but they've been moving in an interesting angle.
>>62470183>fake>gayGo back. This is entirely a youtube/reddit phenomenon.
>>62469263Possible SALT violation accusations being thrown around while congress and Nixon/Ford are in a dispute. Followed by Carter's administration lacking some degree of knowledge of a previous handshake deal behind closed doors, or not honoring it(depending on perspective).Yugoslavia begins to crack and fracture a little early, along with a possible disagreement with Albiana, with some 'sudden' terror attacks that kick off ethnic conflicts early(maybe Tito got hit like the Archduke in one of them). Turkey, Italy, and Greece start getting nervous and put some troops close to the border without consulting the rest of NATO. Albania, technically a Warsaw pact member protests, encourages it's troops to defend their soil.At the same time, third world escalations in Africa go wrong, an American shows up, and the CIA gets blamed. Rumors sprout in Yugoslavia that the CIA is behind part of the plot that kicked off all the ethnic shit happening, Italy and Greek border guards and regular army are getting stretched thing and overworked, and an ethnic attack there results in Greek soldiers fighting with one of the factions in Yugoslavia with some refugees caught in the middle. Albania is demanding the USSR send troops to ensure it's own safety, and finally NATO calls a meeting to figure out what it's supposed to do.Carter the whole while is trying to placate the Russians, figure out what the fuck they're upset with them about or what handshake deal happened(or didn't), and why the CIA is/isn't where people are thinking it is. He's still trying to talk them into a SALT 2, which now looks like a way to ensure the USSR can never catch up to them in weapons. KGB hardliners send troops to Albania, and damn the consequences of rolling through Yugoslavia to do it(maybe someone thinks there's a nuke in the troops being sent as well).Berlin the whole time is deteriorating, and you've suddenly got thousands of possible places shooting could start.
>>62508543Or alternatively, an identical incident occurs in 1978 and Stanislaw just isn't on duty
>>62469263Why not Soviets/Americans getting dragged into a Pakistan/Indian War? Would be highly unusual, but a good platform for parallels with WW1, and also a good reason to not have a full nuclear exchange (India had nukes by 74, and Pakistan probably could have had them sooner than 78 if they got American backing). Maybe Pakistan develops a nuke and uses it first, India retaliates, and a war ensues, with US backing Pakistan and Soviets backing India.
>>62469414>>62469393>>62469839While this approach might be really complicated I still like it best because it adds several layers to what would be a perhaps too simple storyline otherwise. The KGB was indeed a "state within the state" which was both needed and hated by the politbureau, hated because incredibly powerful. The idea itself is believable. Especially if OP manages to give the part with the terrorist attacks a believable twist. Like: You must build a plot where the Soviet Head Honchos are already giving the west the stink eye because of these terrorist attacks. There might not be any clear evidence, the west might not even be involved in the slightest, but the politbureau must have some solid suspicions that go beyond the usual>something bad happened, must have been western agentsSo instead of muslim terrorists why not make these terrorists some sort of freedom fighters. Perhaps a group of ex red army dudes who want to destabilize their own country as to crush communism and replace it with Freedom(tm)?!Perhaps they could leave some sort of "death cards" at their crime scenes so the KGB knows who did it. Out of my ass perhaps postcards of the statue of liberty for that freedom twist. So here's the approach:1) These internal freedom fighters are giving the KGB the biggest headaches since 1917. They strike all over the entire soviet union and the KGB can't find out shit. Even worse, their usual concept of dragging people into torture rooms leads to a popular support for those fighters.2) Politbureau gives the KGB the stink eye "do something you stupid fuckers give us results or else". Both KGB and politbureau suspect western intelligence to be behind the thing but they don't even have semi-solid evidence because the freedom fighters are really not connected to any western player. (1/2)
>>62469263There's a pretty good youtube war mapper who mapped out this exact scenario.From how I understand it he just used what we know of cold war era plans from the Warsaw Pact and NATO and ran them against eachother:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FveyYH7tHloFor a casus belli I have no idea. It doesn't seem to have been a time of particularly high tensions. Maybe Reagan wins in '76?
>>625148233) Anyways, the Politbureau and the KGB are getting angry. The former even at the latter because first and foremost they want some solid evidence whos behind the attacks. Tons of pressure. Then Leningrad happens.4) KGB knows exactly that they are fucked if the politbureau finds out about the control rod tips and that the KGB had burried this knowledge.At this point the Soviet heads would be out for blood. First the terror attacks then Leningrad. They NEEEEED someone to blame, someone to show to the soviet public like "Here, here are the bastards who did it" because the longer it takes the more the entire country will get destabilized even more. Think about it: The Soviet Union who was known to be in charge of everything and anything since 1917 can't do shit against these attacks, can't do shit against Leningrad, cannot even present suspects. This would look weak to the soviet people and, even worse, the soviet/WP satellites. So as of now we got a completely internal situation that's the biggest problem the soviet union ever had to face. It could have the power to destroy the SU as we know it. Then the KGB - FINALLY - presents some solid evidence. "There, this w-german submarine, WE KNEW IT! THOSE FUCKING CAPITALIST BASTARDS!!!! Politbureau, see?! Go get em and save the Soviet Union".I don't know about you guys but in my head I can already feel the sheer pressure and the hate when they finally get the idea that they found who's behind these shameful blows to the SU. So the KGB, to save their own asses and to keep the Soviet Union from crumbling, basically leads its own nation into a war.That's some Clancy-tier stuff here.
>>62514855This would not be the usual communism vs. capitalism war. The Soviets would be just pissed beyond recognition. It wouldn't be a war for soil or ressources, it would be a punitive expedition against who allegedly was behind all these painful strikes against the Motherland - the Eternal German.
>>62514709I don't see either the USA or the USSR as seeing Indo-Pakistani chimp outs as worth going to war over unless someone used a nuke
>>62514823I like your idea of events, I would change it to an organized domestic terrorist movement to something the SU was already dealing with at the time, underground youth culture. The Soviet Union had a pretty strong underground punk scene in it's Moscow and Leningrad built off trading contraband music and watching live, non-state-sanctioned acts. This movement that had an anti-communist, anti-Soviet bent, thought mostly out of contrarianism. A lot of it's notable members would walk back on these positions after the fall of the Union, but that's neither here nor there in this scenario. It's the exact opposite of organized and never a threat to the nation, but that's exactly why they could never stomp it out and one of the reasons why Gorbachev felt Glasnost was necessary. Most of the material circulating the scene is either domestically produced, any western media is crudely pirated. Because of this, the KGB cannot prove the movement is western backed.All it would take would be one notable clash between police and the youth, say a botched KGB raid of an underground show, to draw the greater public's attention. The fact that the ones getting dragged into the torture chambers are kids is what leads to popular support. The KGB are on the Politbureau's shit list, they both suspect western support but cannot prove it. Then >>62469393 happens.
>>62514855>That's some Clancy-tier stuff here.Because it's identical to the plot for Red Storm Rising
>>62469310>Everybody knows Red Storm Rising man>(bunch of schoolkids) assassinated by some internal Terrorists or rogue political/military circles because they want to force (an invasion of the Middle East)>they try to frame a western nationRedStormRising.
>>62469393This is great.You could dramatize the nuclear event really well describing it as technically accurate as possible with a minute by minute description of the events in the reactor ending with something like:"10:05 AM. Detonation in reactor 2."Then the Rote Armee Fraktion in West Germany could be involved somehow, as a retalatiory strike could blow up something, they escape to West Berlin and during the chase shit goes hot on the border and Checkpoint Charlie gets lit up from both sides.It will be glorious, good luck OP!
>>62507973>Sum Ting Wong Strategykek
>>62469273this
>>62469263The hamburglar steals East Germany's rationed burger reserves and blames Jewish Nazi western capitalists.
>>62482814Some of the biggest ones were in Italy, i could see them potentially trying to outdo the red brigades killing the prime minister>inb4 the terrorist operation is named after something from Lord of The Rings because they were really into that
>/k/ writefag brainstorm threadWhat about scifi?What kind of mil scifi plot would you fellas like?
>>62469263just chart a course from real life, it's what all the greatest novelists do, and they end up looking like prophets having predicted a future we all knew we were headed toinclude israeli warmongers in the us government
