Would the Air Force have really shot down those planes if their response hadn't been generally so half-assed?
>>62488451Most likely not. Pre-9/11, terrorists hijacked planes relatively frequently. Usually they would divert the flights to Cuba, Libya, or the like and demand money or the release of prisoners. During the attacks, they gained access to the cockpit and faced minimal resistance because most people assumed it was hostage situation rather than a suicide bombing. Besides flight 93, nobody had enough time to grasp what was going and where the threats were. After flight 93 was identified as hijackers, Cheney apparently ordered a shoot down, but it had crashed by that point.
>>62488493>Cheney apparently ordered a shoot downHis bloodlust is unquenchable
>>62488886makes me kek esp since a few days ago there was a cheney anti-trump shill thread
They didt. knower
>>62488493>crashed by that pointthey 100% shot that shit down and told y'all it crashed to save face
>>62488979Totally. We were even recently asked to believe that both F-16s that were scrambled to intercept both conveniently didn't have any air-to-air missiles equipped. Sorry, not believing that. Those jets that they keep on standby have are always kept armed to the teeth for scramble intercepts. That is literally their only purpose. Keeping them unarmed would be like a cop going on on duty with no ammo in his sidearm.
>>62488451Of course. I do wonder about the conversation re:ramming because it was common to leave a load of TP in the drum and inert projectiles would effortlessly shoot down any target.
>>62488991I think you're thinking of the F-15s, which were vectored out over the Atlantic in the confusion and never had an opportunity to engage. Situational awareness was complete garbage for the entirety of the attack and didn't really get resolved until after all civilian aircraft had been grounded.>>62488979That would have shown up in the black boxes. There is no indication of anything but control inputs from the cockpit being responsible (either a deliberate crash or a failed attempt to disorient the passengers trying to break in).
>>62488451Didn't Bush change the law for these situations which required his approval and he never gave his approval to deal with the planes?
>we're now at the "enough people were born after 9/11 for completely insane conspiracy theories to pop up" stageExciting.There's recordings of NORAD giving explicit orders to shoot down any airliners seen heading towards important locations. They were not fucking around.
>>62489023I could have sworn the pilots that recently did interviews about this were F-16 pilots. And for whatever reason the F-16s miraculously didn't have any armaments installed that day, conviently. So they were tasked with a possible suicide mission of crashing their F-16s into the commercial airliners to bring them down. And we are expected to believe that. The real story is they shot them down and then came up with the lie that the passengers took the plane down to not have to deal with the fallout of admitting they shot down a jet with all those civvies aboard. https://heatherpenney.com/ang-f-16-pilots-who-were-tasked-to-ram-united-airlines-flight-93-recall-being-ready-to-sacrifice-their-lives-on-9-11#:~:text=By%20the%20time%20Penney%20and,the%20towers%20in%20New%20York.
>>62489066oh, they were weekend warrior birds lelthe majority of what these jets do is training where live ordnance would pose a needless risk
>>62489066>he thinks all ANG F-16s are armed and ready to go 24/7There was no conspiracy, you're just retarded.
>>62489078>>62489080So you are telling me that the jets that are tasked with scrambling to defend the homeland in a large-scale terrorist attack are weekend warrior jets that may or may not be armed? And that we have no jets to defend the upper east coast -- the seat of the US government and financial community? Give me a fucking break, morons. They have F-22s for this shit. Flight 93 was shot down and they will never admit it. The pilot who did it is probably already executed.
>>62489095>So you are telling me that the jets that are tasked with scrambling to defend the homeland in a large-scale terrorist attack are weekend warrior jets that may or may not be armed? And that we have no jets to defend the upper east coast -- the seat of the US government and financial community?Before September 11, 2001, yes.
>>62489098>Before September 11, 2001, yes.Incorrect. They have had jets armed to the teeth ready to scramble for terrorist attacks since like the '60s, retard. You really think before 2001 the entire seat of the US government would just be open to aerial attack? Please don't tell me you are that fucking retarded.
>>62488979>>62488991Both of the F-16s sent to intercept Flight 93 only took off AFTER the plane had already been taken down by its own passengers and would still have been 15 minutes' flight time away from Washington had the passengers not acted when they did. There was legitimately no way they could have made an intercept even if they had wanted to.
>>62489095Yep, I know you're like 16 but there was this thing called the peace dividend after the fall of the USSR, and that combined with Desert Storm lead to the US military being gutted beyond words. There was also simply no expectation on a governmental/policy level that civilian airliners would be used for attacks, so the first warning some NORAD/USAF staff had of the attacks was literally the CNN coverage of the North Tower burning.If it was the expected attack, bombers coming from the North over Canada or even a cruise missile attack from submarines off one of the coasts, NORAD would have flown into action immediately and done pretty well. It's just that NORAD had no policies in place to deal with this sort of threat and it came out of nowhere (or at least nowhere to NORAD, which is the same thing practically) so they had to spin up shit as it went on. It says a lot that the national airspace shutdown order (which, despite coming from the FAA, fundamentally is a NORAD thing) came at 11 am despite the attacks being over around 9ish.>>62489103Yeah, a few here and there for the expected case, which was a sanitized environment (ie no passenger aircraft) with good IFF and a bit of warning, not a complete nightmare shitshow scenario with literally every aircraft airborne around every single important location being a potential hostile.>>62489106Which is why they fixed it up after 9/11.
>>62489066A pilot did claim to see United 93 disappear from his radar (presumably from the crash) but he was almost certainly lying because the plane would have been well outside of detection range and was flying dangerously low to avoid detection.
>>62489103correct, they're theoretically supposed to be ready 24/7now say you're a national guardsman flying a couple days a week, it's 2001 and you're living in the end of history during an unprecedented era of peace after a decade long drawing down of military funding
>>62489114OBL was a fucking genius for coming up with that concept. Completely turned the USAF on its head.
>>62489106>Both of the F-16s sent to intercept Flight 93 only took off AFTER the plane had already been taken down by its own passengerThat is the story they fed us. But it's a lie. >>62489109>>62489114It's called the Air National Guard, idiots. They had dozens of armed jets that could have responded.
>>62489124Now you're just engaging in semantics. Is this a bait thread?
>>62489124>this nigga really thinks national guard units are tip top of the line professional units ready at a moment's notice
>>62489135Better yet, he thinks being trained on an F-16 and flying it in a part time homeland defense capacity in the late 90s = tip top of the line fighter pilot ready to throw down 24/7/365
>>62489124You really have no idea what this country was like from 1992 to 2001. Things were so radically different in that decade from the cold war paranoia of the past and the post 9/11 anti-terrorism of the present. 9/11 was such a shocking moment in US history precisely because nobody expected anything like that and we had no reason to believe something at that scale would ever happen at the time. If something of a similar scale happened today the cultural presence would be way less
>>62489023good thing black boxes are magic things that guarantee the clip you heard on the news is the exact recording and there's no possible way that anyone could alter it or provide a different audio recording or fuck with the evidence in aaaaaany way whatsoever.
>>62488949>>62488979>>62488991If a fighter pilot had shot it down. We would have seen a lot of attention whoring from all the fighter pilots involved in it in media over the years. Probably book out by the xmas.
Dear schizo-kun, I have a question for you. Do you believe 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government? For the record, it's an idea I'm not opposed to, but I'm also not 100% sold on either. Anyways, if you don't then continue on. If you do, then please tell me why they would orchestrate a shoot down to cover up (including the execution of a pilot apparently) instead of just telling their hijackers to plow the plane into the ground themselves. Better yet, tell me why they wouldn't want the white house hit when it's largely just a symbolic building that the president wasn't even in at the time.
>>62489109>gutted beyond wordslol whata retard
>>62489156frankly if it wasn't released with the nonsense snowden or other have thrown out there its probably bunk/standard scizo paranoia fodder
>>62489158Look up the forces used in Desert Storm for me anon. Notice anything about them?
>>62489160you're going to die on this hll obviously, but remind me with what army did the US invade raq and Afghanistan after 9/11
>>62489095I can tell you weren't alive before 9/11. Yes faggot, things were actually that chill.
>>62489165Yeah you are like 17 at most.
>>62489156>Better yet, tell me why they wouldn't want the white house hit when it's largely just a symbolic building that the president wasn't even in at the time.this alone tells you everything you need to know, why the pentagon, why shine al ight on the place supposedly stealing the money you obcess over and not distract the populace with a huge target like the Whitehouse?
>>62489165a post peace dividend military riding off a lot of cold war surplus, what's your point?
>>62489171fucking kek you cant even answer THAT?
>>62489176I'm not going to entertain some dumbass who doesn't know the differences in the forces used between 1991 and 2003. Even if you were born after 9/11 you should, being on the weapons board, have read about this shit beforehand.You're from /pol/ aren't you?
>>62489174fuckin lmao and I'm supposed to be 17?
>>62489180>>62489174lmao say hi to /chug/ for me boys those missles are comin'
>>62489156Because it wasn't orchestrated by the US government. It was orchestrated by the Israeli government.
>>62489183All the spam posters really are just cringy 15 year olds from discords who congregate on /pol/, aren't they?
>>62489188>muh jewslmao and the mask falls off>>62489189always have been
>>62488451There was a convenient NORAD training exercise scheduled that day.
>>62489183why the fuck would I post in /chug/ I hate russians
>>62489196Im sure someone believes you, now rant about jews with no self awareness
>>62489203genuinely what the fuck are you talking about and who do you think you're talking to?
>>62489215>who do you think you're talking to?Ok I actually laughed at that one,fucking got a tough guy here boyz!
>>62489218I'm not saying that in a tough guy way which poster do you think I am
>>62489223I literally do not care, but keep posting your ass pain is hilarious
>>62489191I'll stop saying it's the jews when it stops being the jews.
>>62488949Can confirm.
>>62489109>There was also simply no expectation on a governmental/policy level that civilian airliners would be used for attacksNot entirely true. The idea had been floated by the CIA for Operation Northwoods in the early 1960s, although it was considerably more complex (involving the theft of aircraft and piloting them via remote control). In 1994, Air France Flight 8969 was hijacked and later recaptured by GIGN while refueling in Marseilles. One of the factors driving the decision to assault the aircraft was the hijackers' demanding that the plane be fully refueled, despite not even needing half to reach its final destination. This led the French to conclude that they were likely going to use the plane as an improvised cruise missile against a major landmark like the Eiffel Tower and under absolutely no circumstances could it be allowed to take off again.The idea had definitely crossed the minds of some people in high places, but until September 11, 2001, it had never actually been successfully pulled off.
>>62488493And this is another reason why "If I were on those planes, brother, everything would have gone down differently." is such a cope. I still see guys say it, even on this site. Hijackings almost always played out like hostage situations, and everybody would have known this back then. The best survival strategy based on examples in public consciousness would be to sit down and wait to be offloaded.>but what about flight 93?!There were GTE airphones built into the seats, and at some points the plane was so low they could even use regular cell phones. People called their families and heard about the other planes being used as missiles. That was the trigger for the passenger revolt.Anyway, thanks to 9/11, plane hijacking is now a dead tactic, because that's enough to get everyone into survival mode
>>62489292No you wouldn't, you retards can never help yourselves, its a disease
>>62489325Has there even been a successful plane hijacking since 2001?
>>62489393maybe?China Apr 15, 2018: an airplane of Air China, Flight CA1350, was hijacked and diverted to Zhengzhou Xinzheng International Airport.[189]
>>62489411>be totalitarian state>can't prevent a plane hijacking
>>62489505>totalitarian state is shitty as actually enforcing rules that aren't shitting on civilianswho would have thought
>>62489023>That would have shown up in the black boxesUSAF would also have to account for a missing AIM-9 Sidewinder was logged in the inventory on September 10, 2001 and then was mysteriously gone on September 12.
>>62489124>That is the story they fed us. But it's a lie.The takeoffs would have been logged by ATC controllers, been picked up on civilian radars (flightradar24 its pretty notorious for being able to track movements even of classified military aircraft), and likely caught on tape since just about every airbase has loads of security cameras. Flight 93's precise moment of crash would have been logged on its black box, been noticed by civilian radars, and was even witnessed by a farmer on the ground who owned the plot of land it wound up on.
>>62489588account to who exactly, I don't believe it anon but are you seriously telling me a conspiracy that goes all the way up to the President cant disappear a couple sidewinders?
>>62489109>There was also simply no expectation on a governmental/policy level that civilian airliners would be used for attacks>>62489320>The idea had definitely crossed the minds of some people in high placesTom Clancy wrote one in '94. But I suspect it's hard to convince enough of the 'high places' that this new thing really matters and you're not making a fuss over something that will never happen.
>>62489630>account to who exactly, Ihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_OfficeSidewinders aren't M16s, one of them going missing between 9/10/01 and 9/12/01 would immediately raise suspicion
>>62488979>>62488991>>62489023There are fucking phone calls of the passengers ramming the cockpit with the drinks cart. And radar footage of it plummeting down.Honestly how fucking dumb are you people?
>>62489124>That is the story they fed us. But it's a lie.I'm sure you have proof of this.
>>62488451>Sure sucks down there!
>>62490419The plane was flying so low that it was actually able to pick up cell service. Airfone was also a thing until 2007.
>>62488979>they 100% shot that shit down and told y'all it crashed to save facethere's no reason to cover up a shootdown.it honestly would've been less embarrassing for the us gov/mil if they managed to successfully intercept one of the planes before it reached the target instead of completely failing to respond in time for all of them.
>>62488451no because it was all planned
>>62490605I guess they forgot to tell W about the plan
>>62490488Except for the fact that the Air Force just killed dozens of US citizens
>>62488979>>62488991>>62489066>>62489095>>62489114post skin color>>62489023>>62489066The F-15s were from Langely, scrambled by NEADS and vectored out east by mistake. The unarmed F-16s were from Andrews.
>>62491362>Except for the fact that the Air Force just killed dozens of US citizensyou mean the people who would've died anyways when the plane crashes into a building?it's now standard procedure to shoot down hijacked passenger aircraft before they can get close to population centers, no matter how many civilians are on board.why would they cover up such an act and then state they would do it again in the future if necessary?
>>62493607I'm not saying that there was a coverup, but that having to shoot down one of your own airliners, even if the circumstances militarily and legally justified it, was going to be a hard sell no matter what.The pilots of the F-16s pursuing United 93 apparently realized this too because they agreed to ram the plane together and not eject, ensuring that they would have died along with the passengers.
Give it to me straight /k/.Was there any possibility of the passengers successfully retaking United 93 or was it little more than a brave but ultimately doomed last desperate attempt at survival
>>62488451why's this nigga carrying AGM88's?
>>62490426>>62489124I guess not.
>>62488923I hate women so much it's unreal
>>624940030 chance, the hijackers had already determined they were going to simply crash the plane if the plan was at risk of failure. And getting a plane into an unrecoverable stall is the simplest thing there is for the one piloting it.>There is disagreement among some family members of the passengers and the investigative officials as to whether the passengers managed to breach the cockpit or even break the cockpit door. The 9/11 Commission Report concluded that "the hijackers remained at the controls but must have judged that the passengers were only seconds from overcoming them".[31]The passengers fought to the very end, and that is all that matters. Eternal examples of the best that humanity can be, fighting the examples of the worst that humanity can be. No matter how futile, no matter how certain defeat, you must fight 'till your very last breath, 'till your very last heartbeat.
>>62488451Shooting down the plane and killing 200-300 of your own citizens is a really bad look, and then you also can't play victim very well.The only situation where they could have gotten away with shooting it down and surviving politically would be if the plane was explicitly targeting the Superbowl or a World Series game, and it was taken down at the last minute so people could see what they avoided.
>>62494091He's going to take out the NASAMS battery closest to the White House and clear the way for President Harris to be... "unseated".
>>62494181well said AnonThat's Americans for you. Say what you will about us, we don't take adversity lying down.
>>62488451before 9/11 why would anyone think to shoot down a plane? it was unprecedented.
>>62489320>>62489701I want to clarify what I said, when I typed "no expectation on a governmental/policy level", I didn't mean that people weren't aware of the fact you could use planes for attacks. I'm sure they were. What I mean is that the entire governmental and military structure in the US, at the time, wasn't built with I guess you could call it a "flowchart" or "trigger" for someone randomly hijacking an airliner and trying to hit something with it. A Russian attack on the US or Canada? Easy. NSA or USAF or NRO warns of unscheduled launches of bombers from the USSR, a few hours later contacts coming from the North Pole that don't correlate with civilian or known traffic pop up, NORAD assumes it's hostile activity, interceptors are launched, bases are set on appropriate alert, everything happens as planned.There wasn't something like that built in and ready to go for hijackings attacking civilian targets on 9/11. If you listen to the ATC audio you can tell that even the center controller knew something was up after the "we have some planes" announcement was sent on the radio accidentally. They were not stupid.
>>62488949This /thread
>>62494091Those are Sparrows. Which is an unusual weapon for Vipers.
>>62494836I figured that's what you meant, but I thought it would good to clarify that the idea of using a hijacked airliner as a guided missile isn't actually all that new. 27 years before 9/11, Samuel Byck had tried to hijack a plane out of Baltimore International Airport with the intent of ramming it into the White House but was killed by police before it even left the gate. In 1994, Frank Corder stole a Cessna and attempted to ram the White House but only succeeded in crashing into the lawn and killing himself (in fact it was this incident that revealed to the public that the White House was equipped with SAM batteries specifically for shooting down would-be Kamikazes). In 1999, the Columbine shooters initially entertained the idea of hijacking a plane and crashing it in New York City before settling on carrying out a massacre of there school.It's probably also worth noting that the "do we shoot down a hijacked airliner and kill 50 to save 1000" dilemma was a fairly common trope in action movies in the 1990s (the 1996 film Executive Decision probably being the most noteworthy).But yeah, as you said, the fact that this had never been successfully pulled off before 2001 meant that this idea wasn't taken seriously enough to warrant developing contingencies for it. As a result America was completely blindsided (to the point where a substantial number of people are to this day convinced that it had to be a false flag attack) when it actually did happen.
>>62488451>HARMs and bags in an intercept roleLMAO
>>62494131Sour Grapes.
>>62494255>>62494315Orders were given to shoot down United 93 after the first three planes had already hit their targets, but the passengers' revolting and bringing down the plane made that unnecessary. As mentioned earlier, United 93 crashed before the Air Force was even aware that it had been hijacked.
>>62488923Built for STDs.
>>62497877exceptionally unlikely you'd be allowed to hit it, anon.
>>62494255Given what the general tenor was in the country during and immediately after the attacks, I think it would have been a difficult thing to accept, but Americans would have accepted it as necessary with time, maybe even immediately. Not only that, but I can almost guarantee nearly everyone on that plane would have been okay making that sacrifice.
>>62488991>Those jets that they keep on standby have are always kept armed to the teeth for scramble intercepts.Which jets? What standby? Which "they"? The general USAF Alert commitment came AFTER 9/11. Name the unit you served in where that was different. Most acft in any squadron were ready to fly next days goes or spares, but live missiles were only loaded where the mission required them for example deploying to the Middle East. That's open knowledge since forever. When the first news hit our units at SW were in exercise. The flyers immediately RTB where we reconfigured them with lives after which all our squadrons were ready to launch (having everyone at work made that easy), but there was no previous Alert commitment because like most bases we had no standing air defense mission and never did.
>>62493742Where did they confirm not ejecting? Sounds like an afterthought to look good. They didn't mention having TP loaded but even if not ramming using a wing instead of radome first would permit ejection.
>>62490753I did?
>>62489156There is actually some reporting coming out about the Saudis but the conspiracy theorists ignore it because it doesn't fit their theories. It's also less "Saudi Arabia did it" but Islamic schizos who got into the religious affairs ministry and could travel around with diplomatic passports. KSA back then was even more of a feudal society where the House of Saud *ruled* but didn't really govern. Except for a select few things like ARAMCO. They gave the religious establishment a bunch of stuff to play with like the religious ministry, the courts, the mutaween (the morality police), and the World Muslim League which is a NGO that spreads Wahhabism. This was a compact they made after another group of Islamic schizos seized control of the Grand Mosque in 1979 which turned into a bloody battle.So, within that, there were guys who shared Bin Laden's ideology and helped out the hijackers while in the U.S. operating under diplomatic cover. The government started cracking down later and MBS has really chopped the whole religious establishment's balls off. He *hates* the Muslim Brotherhood which is like the more mainstream, smiley-faced version of what Bin Laden believed in.Also the reason for the attacks was pretty simple, they convinced themselves that striking the U.S. would cause the U.S. to withdraw support from apostate regimes in the Middle East which they wanted to overthrow. They had some basis to believe this following the pullout of U.S. troops from Lebanon in the 80s following the bombing of a Marine barracks, and again in the 90s in Somalia after the battle of Mogadishu. Also there were debates within the Salafist-jihadist movement about strategy and whether they should focus on the "near enemy" or "far enemy" and Bin Laden's people wanted to focus on the latter, so doing this was also about making a play for leadership and uniting the whole Dar Al-Islam against the American imperialists.
>>62488451>>62488493Go listen to the FAA tapes on Youtube. Airboyd still has them up, and there are other channels that overlay it with FS04 to show what the planes' positions were at the time. Long story short, no. The entire plot of 9/11, the thing that OBL realized, was that America's air defense network was not set up to handle a hijacked airliner being used as a missile. The basic software used to track the aircraft was woefully out of date, the controllers not competent enough (versus older ones fired by Reagan) to do it without computers, and ultimately there was no SOP or decisionmaking chain of command to request a shoot-down, or even create the necessary conditions to make that request.Much of this can be seen in AA77 and U93's tapes, which was about the time the AF got involved and confusion began. tldr AA and UAL didn't talk to each other, and the military people they were talking to were different and also different talk to each other. The FBI officers talking to the victims onboard (U93's hijackers didn't disable the airphones) were unsure how to proceed until the Secret Service called them .. because they visually identified an unidentified aircraft approaching the white house, from the white house roof.All of the communications problems were figured out about 30 seconds before AA77 hit the Pentagon. U93 was the only plane that the AF could have *maybe* intercepted, but before the intercept arrival occurred passengers stormed the cockpit and hijacked intentionally crashed the plane. Their target was the US Capitol.>pic very related
>>62501177After 9/11 one of the most important things Congress did was use NASA to standardize aircraft transponder/Mode 3 reporting software. Because of this, in a future hijack the airline, FBI, ANG, AF and chain of command will at least know where the airplane is unless the hijackers are smart enough to hotwire the plane in flight, which is unlikely because it'd cause a nasty electrical fire (see the recalled 787s over this specific problem lol).https://www.faa.gov/nextgenhttps://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-turns-over-next-generation-air-traffic-management-tool-to-federal-aviation-administration/https://www.nasa.gov/aeronautics/8-questions-about-nextgen-part-1-how-well-get-where-were-going-tomorrow/https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA568283.pdfhttps://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2004/PAPERS/562.PDFhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Air_Transportation_SystemThis is one of the most consequential outcomes of 9/11, at least from a gov't policy perspective. It's one of the things that enabled UAVs.
>>62501195> Because of this, in a future hijack the airline, FBI, ANG, AF and chain of command will at least know where the airplane is unless the hijackers are smart enough to hotwire the plane in flight, Well, all you REALLY need to do is turn the transponder off, which is perfectly possible in most aircraft. I don't know how it REALLY is in the background but there might be better SOPs now to handle anything, though. The real biggest thing after 9/11 is the massive expansion of the intelligence community and tearing down walls around intel sharing, so that most attacks get stopped well before they're executed. ISIS is coming back so we're seeing some more of that in action, there was just recently a big Taylor Swift concert canceled over actionable intel about a planned attack (that also lead to arrests)https://apnews.com/article/austria-extremism-arrests-security-taylor-swift-7ece0b264f6e4152b8214c9fba8c425b
>>62494181
>>62490397Motherfucker the US has lost NUKES and you think a sidewinder disappearing means shit?>>62494003Slim to none. Though they absolutely made the right decision to go down fighting despite the outcome. They prevented a complete paralysis of the US military.
>>62498467Yeah that seems like a bit of a meme. The more sensible approach would be like, go a couple hundred feet off towards the back of the airliner (so the hijackers can't see you), turn 90 degrees towards it, pull hard as fuck, then a second or so before you hit rotate maybe another 30 degrees and eject. If you do it right you, and your seat, should fly below the airliner as your plane hits it.
>>62501234NTA but that's the funny part: even though IIRC ADS-B isn't a formal 100% requirement for all aircraft in the US yet (it is in other areas like Europe etc), it basically is for all airliners and planes larger than a Cessna, so any airliner suddenly turning their ADS-B off and not responding to radio hails is both extremely obvious (the one plane on primary radar that isn't correlated with an ADS-B track) and really fucking weird (every other plane, barring mechanical issues, WILL have ADS-B on). IIRC during 9/11 controllers were asking other planes to keep an eye out for the hijacked ones. Doesn't mean that they didn't know where they were (I believe they had them on radar most if not all of the time, bar right before they hit their targets) but it does mean that they weren't 100% sure on the positions and deconfliction. >>62501334Which nukes did they lose?
>>62501334>>62501931The only (publicly known) cases of the United States losing nuclear weapons have been accidents where the warheads in question were lost in environments where it was physically impossible to retrieve them, such as the loss of USS Thresher and USS Scorpion or the 1958 B-47 crash in Mars Bluff, SC. In all cases, the approximate location of the lost warheads was identified and sealed off from the public to mitigate health risks.That's not the same as a Sidewinder missile mysteriously disappearing from inventory on the day of the largest terrorist attack in world history.
>>62494181>There is disagreement among some family members of the passengers and the investigative officials as to whether the passengers managed to breach the cockpit or even break the cockpit door.>last known words recorded on the black box were an unknown voice shouting "pull it up"Sounds to me like they actually managed to get into the cockpit and were in the process of/had already managed to overcome the pilot. If they hadn't, the last recorded words would have been the hijackers speaking in Arabic.
>>62502582You forgot the one where a warhead burnt up (or exploded, I forget) in Spain/Portugal and they covered it up for a few decades to avoid releasing info about plutonium contamination. And the one from a few years ago where a B-52 was loaded with a live missile by mistake, flown somewhere on a ferry flight, and the live missile (along with several inert missiles) was left on the B-52 on the tarmac until the next morning when it was discovered it was live. Or the Titan II explosion where, in the mess of figuring out how to deal with several thousand tons of hypergolics everywhere BUT in the missile (there's also a huge conflagration btw lmao) they left the RV sitting in a field a few hundred yards away for like 5 hours until they found it and put it on a pickup truck.But yeah otherwise a very good record. It's surprising we haven't seen an accidental detonation or completely missing warhead yet.
>>62489095Up until 9/11 hijacked airplanes meant an unscheduled flight to cuba and terorist demands for a million dollars and a selfie with madonna. Before the morning of 9/11 the only people who died were the terrorists and hostages killed when competent or even incompetent anti-terrorist teams assault hijacked airplanes on the ground (egyptian team killed a third of the hostages during an assault on a grounded airplane Malta, Egyptian Eir flight 648, or nearly starting a war with Cyprus as Larnaca in 1978).No-one expected to have to shoot down a plane full of passengers over the US mainland, that was something the soviets did (KAL-007).
>>62489155They would keep it top secret
I really wished they got the white houseAlthough it's pretty suss that they didn't
>>62504865>They would keep it top secretCan't hide a jet RTB minus a missile, and missile hits do distinctive damage.
>>62489118He stole the idea from Tom Clancy.
>>62504881I wish they had hit the Washington monument by accident on final approach and everyone just mistakenly assumes that it was the target.
>>62488949my understanding is there is a significant chance it was shot down.
>>62489048>now
>>62488886Cheney is unfathomably based.
>>62488979To save face for what? Multiple planes hit the WTC, and one the fucking Pentagon, had the DoD said "there was a fourth plane heading to do the same, we had to shoot it down" no one would have questioned it.
>>62494131
>>62495725>the Columbine shooters initially entertained the idea of hijacking a plane and crashing it in New York CityAmbitious little fuckers, weren't they?
>>62500784Fascinating stuff. Do you have any recommended reading materials on this subject, anon?
>>62489149>>62489114>>62489078>>62488979>Improper capitalization means poster is using translator app for hindi/cyrillic to latin alphabet.
>>62509885If he had actually served in a war, he would be.
>>62503950There's never been a case of an accident nuclear explosion. There have been cases of the explosive lens on weapons detonating accidentally, but the PAL has successfully prevented warhead activation every time.
>>62488451Yes, orders came straight from President Bush after the Pentagon got hit to shoot down any more hijacked airliners without warning. They weren't taking any more chances.
>>62489226Nah, I think you're being unreasonableTo me ut seems this anon was simy making a point of how the US military/politics wasn't on-the-edge in any significant way at the time and maybe somwehat wrongfully asserting this jad a lot to do with funding rather than focus
>>62488493Flights 11 and 175 probably wouldn't have been shot down in any case because the Air Force didn't know what was going on. Once the North and South towers were hit though, I imagine orders would have changed to "shoot down any hijacked plane immediately"
>>62497882Speak english brownie.
>>62494003>>62494181>>62502595Accounting for physics of the plane being rocked all about, the passengers would have been bouncing off the ceiling and walls like cartoon characters, so reaching the door would be a big struggle. Since the revolt was a short 6 minutes they reached the cockpit door pretty quickly, so it was probably just Al-haznawi outside with a fake bomb, with Al-ghamdi, Al-nami and Jarrah, which would have made it easier to defend a narrow doorway, even against a dozen other guys. If the door was broken down (likely) the adrenaline would probably have led to the cockpit getting crammed from untrained civies rushing inside, and ones getting stabbed (undoubtedly happened) trying to retreat out in fiight/flight mode, probably unable to get Jarrah away from the controls. It's likely then that the last moments were both sides struggling over the controls, the passengers maybe grabbing hold of the free wheel.Of course, I could be wrongOn a tangent, since the passenger right in front of Al-Haznawi was stabbed at the start of the hijacking, then it's very likely that IDF guy on flight 11 was killed before he could have intervened (was sitting right in front of a hijacker and was stabbed at the start of the hijacking).>>62497873It wasn't technically a shootdown order since it would have taken an hour to equip weapons to the available jets; it was a "crash your plane into their plane; we'll weep for you, in the press" order.
>>62519260>On a tangent, since the passenger right in front of Al-Haznawi was stabbed at the start of the hijacking, then it's very likely that IDF guy on flight 11 was killed before he could have intervened (was sitting right in front of a hijacker and was stabbed at the start of the hijacking).Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if an Air Marshal just happened to be on one of those flights. Then I realize that literally the first thing the hijackers did was stab the passengers sitting at the front of the plane, and that's where an Air Marshal would have been sitting.
>>62489048>enough people were born after 9/11 for completely insane conspiracy theories to pop upThey came up on day one, anon.
>>62489411>>62489505>>62489545Chinese mass transit systems actually have pretty high security.I wouldn't call that one successful either, some guy put a fountain pen to the throat of a stewardess, I don't even know what he's demands were but it's said to be mental illness, though China says that about most dissidents and would-be rebels. The flight was diverted to the nearest airport and rushed by guys.The passengers didn't even know that there was an attempted hijacking until they were offloaded.
>>62506428>Can't hide a jet RTB minus a missile, and missile hits do distinctive damage.I don't really have an opinion on the topic but I think these are easily enough concealed. The missile is the easy part; just tell the ordinance chief to sign it back on return, then invent a live-fire exercise two weeks later where it gets expended.Fudging the crash report is much more complicated but probably also doable it's still just takes some authorities flashing a badge and telling crash investigators what to write.The only problem is convincing these people to lie and on a 9/11 scale event they're absolutely going to obey.
>>62509885>Cheney is unfathomably based.He was a corrupt piece of shit. He just wasn't afraid to have the US throw its weight around.
>>62513501>At the time of the accident, the B-52G was carrying four B28FI Mod 2 Y1 thermonuclear (hydrogen) bombs,[2][3][4] all of which fell to the surface. Three were found on land near the small fishing village of Palomares in Almería, Spain. The non-nuclear explosives in two of the weapons detonated upon impact with the ground, causing the dispersal of radioactive plutonium, which contaminated a 0.77-square-mile (2 km2) area. The fourth, which fell into the Mediterranean Sea, was recovered intact after a search lasting two and a half months.[5]
>>62521320Yeah but there's a difference between "the Pentagon was hit with cruise missiles instead of planes" or "the planes were actually empty and remote controlled" and some of the absolutely bonkers shit we see now.
>>62521372>as always someone has to come in and dick suck chinalmao
>>62489048>>62521320>>62521483The one most slept on is "some of the muscle hijackers didn't know it was a suicide mission".
>>62522170what would that change anon?
>>62522273Nothing, but in hindsight it's surprisingly dark to think about, even with everything else that happened.Much like the more realistic "who knew it was coming and let it happen?" ones.
>>62521481What did I just say?
>>62510966When you shoot a man in the face and the man apologizes to you, you’re based, end of.
>>62510966How does he do it?
>>62528114By dodging the draft!
>>62519260>it was a "crash your plane into their plane; we'll weep for you, in the press" order.Retard question, what if the pilots chickened out?
>>62530841depends on the damage done if he doesnt honestly
>>62488451No
>>62488886Least homicidal neocon
>>62489588based missile enjoyer
>>62530841>The pilot could have stopped the capitol/WH being destroyed. They were too scared to do it.Even if they evacuated in time, the public would ensure they'd be driven to an assisted suicide if they're names were leaked. Especially if shortly after it happened.
>>62495340Not for F-16 ADFs, which would have been in ANG inventory at the time.
>>62540894I could definitely see a pilot hesitating to shoot down an airliner, it’s not something they normally train for
>>62527734To be really realistic with the ABC people. Much like December 7th Pearl Harbor, they knew an attack was coming they just didn't know it would be Pearl.
>>62497872Keep putting pussy on a pedestal, anon. I'm sure that will get you some.
>>62509885>Cheney is unfathomably based.t.
>>62545611I like how the Punisher TV series made Eric Prince into a comic book villain.
>>62545611>blackwater>visible NOPD logosu wot m8?
>>62545995QRD?
>>62547348Punisher Netflix series has an expy of Blackwater and Eric Prince (but way sexier).https://youtube.com/watch?v=3i_jGOomloY
