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>>62493816

>>62493816
I want to try out out one of the heavier PRC cartridges, 7mm or 300, doesn't really matter. I need to get out to some public land nearby and see how far out I can reach.

>>62493973
Hope you can and post some results anon. What rifle do you plan to use for it? I looked them over, but decided they were just too much (in multiple respects) for any range I was reasonably likely to get to on a regular basis. Maybe a few years from now though if they pull a 6.5CM and took off enough to bring the cost down more towards normal stuff, and if that new steel really proves itself. 300PRC looks really solid though.

>>62494119
I've got a bunch of tabs open with various rifles. for 7mm I could go cheap and get a Howa 1500 and just put it in a MDT field chassis. Could also do the same for 300 prc and be around $1000 in minus optics. Or a Bergara HMR, they're always a solid choice and not really a whole lot more money than the Howa/mdt set up. I have a cheap 6.5cm rifle on the way just for some lower cost mid-long range shooting, so I'll see how that shoots. I also would like to get a low weight hunting set up in .308 or 6.5. Sig Cross looks nice, but at that price point I have quite a few options.

>>62494167
Nice, yeah those are really solid options for such a project and good value too on the first ones. And not like any of us end up married to the caliber choices with a solid gun, can just get another barrel/parts.

For mine, should be fine in the same mags and bolt too, though for smaller stuff I'd need a different bolt and mags. The long action mags/bolt are built for 338 so there's a lot of coal to work with which would be useful in getting into some of the newer higher bc stuff, it's not locked into 300wm. I did try out the swapping and it's decent as advertised, I set a timer like a nerd and did it a few times and it really did take like 37 seconds. Of course end up with something unnecessarily heavy and expensive for a small caliber but some flexibility doesn't hurt.

are the old rabbit ears still useful with a poverty build?

>>62494853
I think so. Don't have to go right to a magspeed.

>>62494167
Think about HMR Premier when you decide for 300PRC

>>62495820
I've heard a lot of folks I respect say it's every bit as smooth as a nice Tikka but haven't had a chance to try it out myself.

What should I be looking at barrel wise? DPMS pattern ar10....308...

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I have a SCAR 20s on the way. What’s a good can that can stretch between 6.5 and 30cal? Also what mag is best if I won’t be shooting past 800-1000 yards? I don’t have any longer range experience so I’m out of my depth here.

>>62497857
>What’s a good can that can stretch between 6.5 and 30cal?
6.5 basically falls under the 30cal umbrella, you use the same cans for either. Anything for 308 or 300wm is going to do even better for 6.5. In terms of what to get, you're running a short stroke gas gun there so unlike the bolts a lot of us are using you need to care about backpressure. And of course there's your budget, as well as the practical concern of how desperate you are for it given that so much stuff is out of stock 75% of the time these days (though you don't have to wait 8 months like we did in the bad old days [last year] either). I guess I'll suggest looking at the PWS BDE 762 as a nice-ish one, which punches above its weight in terms of performance while being pretty low bp. At $950 it's firmly into higher pricing, but it's not the stratospheric $1200-1500+ some places want these days.

However, even a basic bitch $500 (fuck the nfa "basic bitch" should be like $100) can is still a huge improvement over nothing. And with short wait times there's less incentive to go high end. Your call on that one.
>Also what mag is best if I won’t be shooting past 800-1000 yards? I
Depends on your eyes and preferences, and you can absolutely make do with the old days "1x per 100yd" and just have a fixed 10x SWFA. But all else being equal you won't regret having more so long as the low is low enough for you given fov considerations. Cost and other variables is the big thing.

These days though you can get 1.5-2.5x per 100yd in extremely reasonably priced stuff, so that's not a bad baseline. So like 3-15, 3-18, 4-24, 5-25, 6-24, anything in that kind of range will suit you fine and not leave you horribly narrow at 100yd either.

If you're looking at high end stuff, you really want to get behind it if at all possible. I'd still suggesting maybe getting something cheap first so you can get a feel for what you're after. You should almost certainly get a mil reticle.

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>>62498225
Thanks Anon. I’m looking for scopes not above the 3k range. I like my NF 4-16 but I’m not sure if I want a little extra power for the 6.5. I’ve heard people saying the NF 5-25 wasn’t good but it’s hard to tell what’s regurgitated memes and what’s real.

>>62498282
Razor G3 6-36 is the meta until you start paying ZCO prices.
$2500 new. If you're willing to wait AAOptics has them refurb for $2200, or buy used.

>>62498225
Wait, does that mean the added space between a 6.5mm bullet and a 30cal can wont harm the dB reduction IRL?

>>62498282
>Thanks Anon. I’m looking for scopes not above the 3k range.
OK, that's definitely into very nice territory.
>I like my NF 4-16 but I’m not sure if I want a little extra power for the 6.5.
4-16 is absolutely enough mag to get started, and of course NF makes quite nice glass. Since you already have it, already like it and are familiar with it I'd absolutely begin by just shooting with that a bit, and then consider more afterwards. Though you don't say what reticle you have, that's an area where you might want something different for prs vs in more typical battle rifle usage. I know they've got some decent trees (mil-xt, tremor3) but if you've got the mil-r or mil-c it's still fine to get going with. Or if you just don't like doing holdovers/measures and just want to use the turrets again that's taste.

The one thing you may want is a lightly canted rail to give you more adjustment while keeping within your scope's sweet spot at the upper end of your ranges.

>>62498399
>Wait, does that mean the added space between a 6.5mm bullet and a 30cal can wont harm the dB reduction IRL?
No, not in any reputable measures I've ever seen (like pew), nor heard anecdotally (basically worthless, almost none of us would be able to hear any difference between 130dB and 134dB instantaneous). Most suppression performance appears to have near zero to do with gaps, and instead is down to internal geometry and design choices (gas wants to expand instantly when it can anyway so as soon as the bullet leaves the barrel suppressor is getting to work), sheer volume of gas vs ability to handle it, and how complete the burn is. If a significant amount of powder is still burning when it gets to can/atmosphere that's going to bump noise regardless.

End of the day, 308 has 56gr H2O case capacity while 6.5CM is 52.5gr. Significant reduction in gas volume and solid burn in the same can seems to always completely drown out other details. There's tons and tons of different can styles and guns, many of which never have been objectively tested, so I wouldn't be stunned if you could find me some can where 308 was quieter then 6.5. But I haven't seen it.

Of course I'll reiterate that all this is gilding lilies on some level, the differences overall are rarely enough to make a major IRL difference vs other factors, particularly with supersonic ammo where you are never getting hollywood quiet. If there were two cans at the same price and one suppressed 6dB better no reason not to take it. If one can is 139 at $700 and the other is 133 at $1500, ehhhhh. I'd put the extra $800 into glass or other stuff myself.

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Thanks anons this was helpful

>>62498372
I glanced at ZCO but they were a bit too far out of the budget. I’ll look at the Razor
>>62498463
I’m using the mil xt reticle. I was looking at S&B but their scopes in the 3k range have shit reticles. I really like my 4-16 I just wasn’t sure if it’s enough mag

>>62498548
I'm not a huge ZCO fan myself though I know a lot of folks swear by 'em. Ultimately though I would definitely stand by really trying to get behind glass in that kind of price range. A good store will be happy to help you try a bunch of glass out and go look through it outside. It's not just mag/reticle, stuff like how the turrets run and feel, whether there's a noticeable transmissivity drop in the upper 30-20% of the mag range, how the chromatic aberration looks and so on, little things even like how stiff the zoom is, is the sort of thing where you can read a lot of reviews but learn more from 60 seconds behind the scope looking a hills then most of 'em.
>I just wasn’t sure if it’s enough mag
It's definitely "enough" mag in principle, the infographic still mentions the old SWFA 10x fix mag for good reason, but whether it gives you what you want specifically you should just find out. Then you'll know for sure.

And damn looks like you've got a helluva beautiful area to go shoot at range, wonderful shot. Looks like fun times ahead for you, enjoy anon!

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>>62498535
The suppressor u gonna run gonna be needed dor 223Rem and 6.5CM to get carbon deposit tests, because of the 223 I gonna use a 6.5 can. But those are amazing news, a autismo friend of mine gonna be happy to hear that. IDK if you're the LGS Anon, but the goods dropped yesterday and get semded out soon. Today I turned 30 so you talk to a real Boomer now ;)

What’s the apeal of ball heads vs inverted ball heads for a tripod mount?

>>62499119
inverted ball head is basically a leveling head with a much more full range of motion. it means you don't need to level the base to move with a totally level horizon. puts all the weight on the moving part tho. in photography people tend not to like em as much cuz they only are really good for ease of shooting flat panos and make motion a little harder. dont use tripods shooting myself tho just tried some at the range sometimes so other anons know more

>>62493816
Too bad they don't make the SRS chambered for rimfire cartridges. Are there any rimfire bullpups that are bolt-action?
>>62493828
>.22 LR
Wouldn't a subsonic .17 Hornady round still be more accurate due to a higher ballistic coefficient?

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>>62498548
How far are you stretching it out? I engage IPSC out to 1,000 yards with the 4-16. Depending on the conditions, sometimes you're just dialing up the mirage getting beyond 20x. I definitely get it though, 800+ yards and reduced IPSC targets start getting small in the reticle.

>>62493828
Garmin Xero is the objectively superior chronometer nowadays. The only thing it can't do is check speed 100 yards down range but if you have muzzle velocity and bullet info you shouldn't need a second speed measurement.
Good time for poorfags to pick up Magnetospeed or Labradars people are trying to dump.
>>62499341
.17 HMR match grade ammo doesn't exist.

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>>62499341
>Too bad they don't make the SRS chambered for rimfire cartridges.
Would be ludicrously overkill for 22lr and not sure what the point of any others are in that platform either. If you just want something small and zippy there's 22-250, 220 swift, 22 creedmoor etc.
>Are there any rimfire bullpups that are bolt-action?
Unfortunately I don't know of any at least in the US, though I've seen some really crazy old stuff in the past like pic related (iirc this is 220 but I know I saw 22s like it as well). The euros do a lot of interesting manuals too include bullpups, but I don't know of a single importer though richfags have sometimes gotten them over here. DT of course makes a regular semi 10/22 action bullpup now and I considered getting one if only the top rail was metal, and/or some wood options. Not gonna for all plastic though at that price.

In the US at least I guess fact is that most who want rimfire want it for 22lr and because it's cheap, which means they don't want to spend lots on a rifle, which means they won't support something that isn't popular because lack of mass manufacturing always makes things more expensive. Chicken and egg.
>>>.22 LR
>Wouldn't a subsonic .17 Hornady round still be more accurate due to a higher ballistic coefficient?
More accurate isn't the point on that one anon, 6.5 CM has a higher ballistic coefficient then 22lr too. One might learn on 22 because it's dirt cheap and you don't have really long distances nearby. It being more affected by wind and drop is good not bad, because it means you can practice those at a much shorter range. A lot of the core basics of marksmanship will be the same with 22 at 100-250yd vs 6.5 or whatever at 800-1000yd. And you could use freebie pile 4x fixed mag too. For people looking to get into PRS and intimidated by even a $1200-1300 all-in cost of entry, the point is that you can absolutely get going for really low amounts of money, then graduate up later as opportunity allows.

>>62499592
I'm working on my own beta infograph update unless some other anon does first, trying to figure out formatting and such. Everyone can modify/criticize it, I'll try to get off my ass at some point this thread. Absolutely fucking beautiful weather right now though and I finally have my new gun so kinda hard to want to spend much time inside.
>Garmin Xero is the objectively superior chronometer nowadays.
Well yeah, but also like $500-600. It'll go in upgrade pick, but it's way out of starter territory you can practically get the rifle for that much.
>Good time for poorfags to pick up Magnetospeed
Yes, this is the main advantage. The old rabbit ears you can find for like $50-80 often still remain the ultimate poor option, and are gudenuf to get started a little learning your ammo. Magspeeds and Labradars are no longer worth anything like new price imo, but with the pressure from above them and serious people upgrading you can find them at discount used with regularity. For $150-250 those are still reasonable bumps over the really old stuff without being into pricey territory. Both companies have been stubborn about MSRP though.

>>62499678
>>Too bad they don't make the SRS chambered for rimfire cartridges.
>Would be ludicrously overkill for 22lr and not sure what the point of any others are in that platform either.
It'd be nice to have a lightweight rifle for small game that you could fit in a backpack and doesn't take up much room. One that doesn't make much noise, hence a bolt-action firing a small subsonic round. A bullpup would also stick out less in the environment.

>>62497857
I did a bunch of reading to decide what can to get for my 6.5CM AR10, I ended up settling on a Rugged SurgeX. The previous model performed pretty well, and the new one appears to just be improved in every way included HUB mount support so I can still keep my ASR mounts on everything. It's a good balance of sound reduction without crazy high backpressure, and can be run in long or short modes. Met all my criteria for a do it all rifle can.

If the current wait times are any indication, it should be approved in the next 30 days or so.

>>62499678
>DT of course makes a regular semi 10/22 action bullpup
Doesn't the 10/22 have cycling issues?

>>62499789
>It'd be nice to have a lightweight rifle for small game that you could fit in a backpack and doesn't take up much room. One that doesn't make much noise, hence a bolt-action firing a small subsonic round. A bullpup would also stick out less in the environment.
Oh yeah, agreed on your desire totally, I'm just saying the SRS specifically isn't that gun, even the covert isn't light. It's built to handle all the way up to 338lm (and people have 510whisper/12.7x48 conversions and shit with it too) so it's drastically overbuilt for being a light woods gun, it's like 9lbs empty/bare minimum. That's not insanely heavy for a 33cal capable rifle, but for a 22 it's silly. Bolt action version of the trek22 which weights 4.8lbs is way more the mark.

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Just recently qualified as a sniper and I'm currently insanely interested in long range precision shooting. You don't actually do a lot long range stuff on the course(800 meters max, focusing more on alternate positions etc.), and the opportunity to do very long range stuff is hard to get and usually short lived. So basically I need my own .308 to get good at this stuff and go and learn it, because it really really bothers me to be a sniper and suck at anything past 800m.
On a budget, so I was thinking of getting these,

Howa 1500 .308
Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50 MRAD
Harris BR2 6-9in Bipod
Nielsen Paradox 50 Suppressor (Not 100% on this)
MDT Field stock chassis and a 10rnd mag for it.

What do you guys think? Anyone care to pick it apart? I'm also not American so my options are kinda limited on choice which sucks but anyway.

>>62499882
That's a solid 'entry level' setup which is in no way a bad thing. One of my former coworkers was an 8 year USMC vet who had done sniper school and several private multi-day extreme range courses that went out to 1200m, and his personal rifle was a Remington 700 with a Leupold Mark 3. In the factory stock.

He had re-bedded it, checked float, and worked with a local gunsmith to do some other minor accurizing work and he shot right alongside guys with 5x or more expensive setups.

I much prefer Leupold to Vortex myself but Vortex is g2g. My own rifle is a Weatherby Vanguard 300WM which is just a rebranded Howa barreled action. It has been good.

>>62499846
I guess it's just as heavy as other rifles of it's caliber. But the lever arm is definitely reduced which would be less fatiguing.

>>62499913
Yep, I don't have a strap so I haven't measured the final weight of mine yet, though thinking about it if I measure the bag first, then gun in bag, can subtract and that'd be about right. But yeah while it's no fairy it's actually not terrible to hold ready, despite the 10" can I put on the end. OAL is about 43" with a lot of weight in the back, so not terrible for the caliber.

>>62499912
Glad to hear it. That 1MOA at 1000yrds series on youtube really shows up a lot of those 10k rifle guys pretty bad, and you always see some budget builds doing really well.

>>62499882
I agree everything there looks pretty darn solid, though I don't recognize that suppressor at all. Not that that means a lot, suppressors are a big market, I assume it's a non-American brand? I guess the only question I'd raise is if you've considered 6.5, 308 wouldn't be what I'd choose for a new build in 2024. However, that's from an American perspective, you mention military so if you want to practice specifically with the exact same ammo you use there and it's 308 that makes sense, or if that's locally what's practical for you to get same.

>>62500421
Yeah absolutely, particularly below 1000-1200yd you can do fantastically well with real value platforms, it's really about the shooter. Fancy equipment is only much use for someone not very good if it's literally almost shooting for them and that wasn't popular on the market. The "1moa all day" challenge also shows up a lot of expensive stuff doing so-so.

>>62499882
>I qualified as a sniper
>i dont own my own 308
what are you talking about? are you some "sniper" for a retarded hick police department, because you could hit a target at 100 yards with a scoped rifle?

>>62500446
Yeah a buddy of mine has a 6.5 and he loves it, but the biggest issue really is how expensive it is to feed here, and its not quite as common just yet. But yeah you said it, .308 is what I use at work so I kinda want to lock that down first and learn as much as I can about shooting that caliber at distance before I get moved on to the .338 stuff. And who knows, sometimes boxes of ammo get left over after a shoot and somehow accidently end up in my bag in my house.

>>62500494
Not an American, rifle ownership here is rare, expensive and hard to get if you dont own land or know people who own land that contains deer.

>>62500535
how have you qualified as a sniper. qualified by who?

>>62500540
Military?

>>62500553
and what did this qualification entail?

>>62500572
Very little shooting past 1000 meters, which is why im here trying to improve myself.
What do you think snipers do exactly?

>>62500584
own their own guns perhaps, or at the very least be provided them by their employers along with the facilities to practice their trade

>>62500601
>own their own guns perhaps
Not every country is blessed to have the right to bear arms unfortunetly. And I am provided so long as I am at work. The facilities and time to practice is the biggest issue here, which is why I need my own rifle now if I want to improve at 1000m+ shooting. Still, shooting is roughly a 7th of what a sniper is trained to do.

>>62500601
nta and he's already responded but come on anon: I don't know non-American specifics well at all (probably like most of us) but I'm plenty aware we're pretty unique for first world countries in terms of gun rights and opportunities. And at the same time we're not unusual in terms of police swat or a lot of military training stuff not always being the best. If anything plenty of forces are infamous for rarely shooting more than a handful of times per year. Plus lots of EU countries, at least since the end of the CW, have not taken their militaries very seriously either and have gutted budgets and let branches rot pretty hardcore. Germany being a particularly sad example. That's starting to change thanks to Russia's war against Ukraine but habits die hard and trickle down the ranks harder. Makes sense to me an anon who wants to get good on his own time beyond the minimum rank set by his employers would need to figure out his own training outside of work. I mean, that's true in general of most trade careers. They're not strict 9-5 jobs if you care.

>>62499913
>>62500093
don't euros have some interesting ultra compact you open from the back?

Anyone have field use with the Leupold Mark 5HD?

I want something lightweight, but can still be used for some decent ELR. I looked through a Vortex LHT and was super unimpressed with it. Any other good options yall would reccomend?

>>62501181
i wouldnt exactly call them lightweight but theyve been used to good effect in prs

>>62501181
The LHT is exceptionally light which puts it at odds with most "ELR" marketed options being half again more if not twice the weight. I think if you stay in that weight range you sacrifice mag (which can be fine depending on use) or you are really changing the class of optics you are shopping for.

>>62501181
if you ever get a chance Schmidt & Bender makes some very nice glass. I also found Kahles to be very enjoyable when i was behind one with windage on the left side.
pretty big price jump from the vortex however.

>>62501635
Price jump doesnt matter. Gun build is nearly 7k before optic. Looks like the 6-36x56 PM II is only 2oz more than the Mark 5hd. Ill have to get some eyes behind that glass.

>>62501294
I mean given most other 34mm tubes with a 50+ obj are around 40oz, being only 30oz is a huge amount of weight savings and really light for its size. Hear anything bad about them?

>>62501316
Thats why I said the LHT wouldnt do it for me. Not so much the glass quality but the reticle and fov quality was such a downgrade. Well if Leupold can make a decently lightweight 34mm, im sure theres other companies that have done it before. Like stated, the Schmidt&Bender is a great on paper scope that seems to be what Im looking for, but Im sure theres also other options out there.

>>62501802
havent heard anything bad per say but most of the good that ive heard has been from an advertising standpoint. that said tho i would also look at the MK4 HDs as well since from what i can tell is basically the same scope, only real difference being a hair less maximum magnification, and comes in at a lower price point

If you can consistently hit steel at 1,000 yards with .308 / 7.62x51mm NATO (or 6.5 and up) and a thermal scope then you can engage a government man from beyond the range of his rifle and abilities.

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>>62497857
Your spotter on the right is dressed more appropriately. Not only is it cringe to get gussied up like that, it will get you spotted and killed by government men. Dress more like an Irish Republican sniper, which is unsuspecting plainclothes.

Looking to get baby's first precision rifle (IE: literally just a half decent bolt gun I can put a thermal scope on). I was considering the Mossberg Patriot in .300 Win Mag or .30-06. My only real requirements are heavy barrel and threaded.

>>62502216
>.300 Win Mag or .30-06
I don't think Mossberg offers heavy barrels on their long actions? Also since you are considering long action, I feel like I have to recommend something at least based on a 700 so you don't get cucked on mag length.
Bergara HMR is probably where I'd start. Decently heavy barrel but not a competition only sort of contour. With the thermal I'm assuming the priority is hunting so you can still walk it in, but its not a first choice rifle to scale mountains with. 300WM is IMO the better bolt face to start with.

>>62502319
what makes you say that magnum bolt face is better? it mostly has weird/expensive stuff.

>>62502535
There isn't a whole lot the the non-magnums can do that a short action can't and to your point, with cheaper component costs. .540 really exploits what you can fit and at least in my opinion is the reason for choosing a long action.

>>62500584
based, using k to improve skills for military is a nice goal. Welcoom Anon, lets hope you do it. If you plan shooting over 1K you go with a simple 6.5Creedmoor or do you go with a 30cal Magnum?

>>62501181
>>62501802
>I want something lightweight, but can still be used for some decent ELR. I looked through a Vortex LHT and was super unimpressed with it. Any other good options yall would reccomend?
It's in the OP, but I'll go ahead and say anyway that I've been happy with March scopes (and am very happy with that one). They too make some ultra compact light ones. Their March F 3-24 is a 30mm that gets down to 24oz at 13.2" long, and their Compact is similar with a 10x ratio. Their 34mm tube FX 4.5-28 is pretty comparable to the 5HD 5-25, and still only 31oz. But it has somewhat more upper and lower, with a not insignificantly larger FOV (29.1ft@100yd low for the FX vs 20.4ft@100yd for the 5HD). All are 50+ objectives. They've always been very responsive to my emails, both with questions on their scopes I have but also even order status from a 3rd party reseller.

Anyway, nothing against Leupold or the other common suggestions people have, and highly compact scopes always have some challenges (like tighter DoF) which not everyone likes. But if weight/size are important goals and you're looking at nicer stuff I think March is worth at least taking a look at in that space.

>>62502586
The idea was to use a .308 since thats the caliber im trained on and will be using most of the time, so getting used to that and how it performs at range and calling wind with it will be something I really have to get good at. I cant get a .338 here with is our other battalion level caliber rifle, so Id much prefer to stick to .308 and try to master that. And besides, I always hated handing back leftover rounds to the CQ

>>62502319
>so you don't get cucked on mag length
Seconding this anon. If you're going to the weight/recoil/trouble/expense of getting something long action (or capable) vs just going with 6.5 or the like, make sure it'll be able to handle higher COAL loads. One of the problems with 300wm that 300prc fixed is the actual formal spec not officially handling the kind of really high BC bullets one might want to try out these days. Of course lots of modern gun makers do anyway, but it's not something you can take for granted either since a gun which didn't would still be following SAAMI fine. That's actually probably a decent test anyway when buying, just look at if anyone is using it with 7mm or 300prc or the like, if so then you have room to try other stuff down the road.

Though by the same token make sure LA is what you're really after. SA is a lot cheaper and will go to 1000+ no problem. For "baby's first precision rifle" is it really the right choice? Of course if you just like bigger boom that's 100% understandable, me too.

>>62500601
Are you simple or something? I served with plenty of snipers and designated marksmen who were never into shooting outside of their military service. Do you think military snipers own the rifles they are issued or something?

>>62501802
>Gun build is nearly 7k before optic
Care to share the build?

>>62503322
>Are you simple or something?
nta and yeah maybe it's a bit simple, but I think on /k/ (or /g/ or /o/ any other hobby subboard), where all of us are here because we enjoy firearms or at least aspects of them, it's easy to forget that for plenty of people they're just work. Lots of people are in the military who may flat out dislike guns and fighting but wanted/needed the money or direction in life. Same as anything else really, probably most people work 9-5 jobs that they're ok with but certainly form no part of their life outside of work beyond any coworkers who are friends. Plenty of people hate their jobs too unfortunately. I'm luck to be into my work personally as well, but I've come to recognize that I'm something of a weirdo in that both for worse and for better.

Even writing this out almost feels a little odd, because I've lived so long making my hobbies my work and my work my hobbies. PRS is actually one of the only ones that hasn't had any overlap, even cooking has come up in work sometimes.So I can feel the blindspot, even while I can also see intellectually why there could be plenty of snipers, particularly in Europe or Australia or Japan or wherever, for whom it'd just be a job they ended up in. Maybe sure "yeah it's interesting enough as work goes" but that's it, they do nothing in it on their own.

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>>62499913
>>62500093
So weighed it and yep she's chunky, full weight with loaded 8 round mag of 300wm is ~17 lbs. About 3 lbs of that is the scope, another pound or so for the suppressor, 1.7 lbs for the bipod, then misc stuff. I'm using a barrel I didn't opt to get fluted which might have saved a solid half pound to a pound, getting a short scope could have saved another 3/4, could do without a bipod etc, but still weight adds up quick particularly when starting with a 9+ lbs gun. Enough weight is to the middle and rear that's it's not awful to shoot standing but really not where I'd want to start for a truly long distance portable woods gun.

>>62503436
>join military
>dont like guns or fighting
>pick a combat MOS
are you retarded?

>>62503322
>be anon who is supposedly sniper
>have to be spoonfed about their poverty build
stay butthurt anon that you spent your entire life around retards like that anon and consider it normal. enjoy your dependapotamus and crippling alcoholism

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>>62503868
So traditional probably best for most despite my love of bullpups. Though if it existed over here something like the SR2 or one of the other yuro single shots might be interesting. The carbon one is under 6 lbs, reputed to have a superb trigger and accuracy, and can be had in any caliber. Half pound for a minimal 3x fixed mag, maybe a really minimal short light can, at another 10-13oz, entire weight around or less than 7 lbs.

>>62503895
>are you retarded?
No, but I think you might be a turbo autist anon.

>>62503895
>>have to be spoonfed about their poverty build
He asked for advice on a build already put together, in a thread about building long range guns. Unironically kill yourself you unlovable, misreble, autistic faggot

>>62501802
Have used S&B, can recommend highly.

>>62503895
grow up anon

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>>62503962
>anon asks for people to pick it apart
>get upset when people pick it apart
also how retarded are you that you think screwing in two action screws to mount a stock, a couple pins for a trigger, or four screws to mount a scope is building a precision rifle? you arent building shit, you dont have a lathe, you dont have a reamer, most people in this thread dont even have head space gauges or a torque driver other than perhaps something targeted for poors like the wheeler. given the parts that anon listed i'm quite certain he just used some L keys and hoped for the best, because why would torque specs matter

>>62502036
Keep your murder fantasies to yourself, retard. No body gives a shit about your half baked concepts.

>>62504066
PRG has proven that poorfag stuff is literally just as good as the expensive shit you waste money on retard

>>62504083
>cope
>the post

>>62504066
You didn't pick apart anything, you gave no suggestions, you just threw a hissy fit about a non-American anon liking guns and wanting to get into them on his own outside of his job in a country where apparently that is not easy. And now you're going off on this weird tangent out of nowhere. He asked for a gut check on a perfectly reasonable rifle plan he had researched. This is not /arg/, "poors" are absolutely welcome here, and we recognize that skill matters more than gun, but that's not what this was anyway.

Go outside and shoot anon, maybe share some of your own guns and groups and any ideas you have and what you like. Get in a better headspace.

>>62504066
>that you think screwing in two action screws to mount a stock, a couple pins for a trigger, or four screws to mount a scope is building a precision rifle
If the end result shoots sub-moa at 500-1000+yd, it's building a precision rifle. Full stop. /prg/ is about RESULTS anon, not how much money you spent on gadgets.
>>62504087
Many of us do have very expensive setups at least as much as whatever you're proud of, but do not believe that makes us the slightest bit superior to an absolute budget starter. We did them because we enjoyed or needed something specific about it, and others might not. Anything that lets anyone who wants to get out under the sky and have fun shooting and improving regardless of their local challenges and budget is good and on topic.

>>62504066
This has to be the saddest shit ive ever seen. I actually feel bad for you anon, I hope your just tolling

>>62504122
>lets just put any amount of torque on scope rings and hope that neither recoil will cause the scope to lose zero, nor will we crush the tube and throw the elements out of alignment
>this will certainly result in sub-moa groups

>prg
>moa
>not mil

>many of us
>but not me

>>62504126
if you really want to see something sad take another look at the pic from this "military sniper" here >>62499882. its some retard shouldering a rifle on a stream, right next to the bank, and having his gay lover decide to lean against his off hand while giving gripping his bipod like he is jacking it off

but hey keep on white knighting, maybe anon will give you a handjob too

>>62499483
Damn I like the look of that rifle anon, any other pics?

>>62504066
woah check out this master shooter. fucking hell your honestly pathetic, and Id love to know how many times you've been called that behind your back

>>62504140
You are literally the first and only person in this thread to invent this torque strawman out of nowhere. Everyone else just takes for granted that of course you take care with that. "Sub-moa" is just a common term of the art that most Americans (are you also not one?) think in terms of, even if we have mrad reticles. And yeah, me. And now suddenly you're also out of nowhere spouting off rando gay culture war stuff. Still no guns either.

Not sure why you wandered in here but feel free to leave again.

>>62504140
this is fucking hilarious, whats wrong bro? whats got you so upset? your coming off as a little bit butthurt, not gonna lie

>>62504140
>what is training for alternative positions
Life isnt a IPSC match, people train to fire from awkward positions they may or may not encounter. But I suppose I shouldnt expect you to know about anything about that other than sitting you fat gut down on a bench.

>>62504163
>of course i have a torque driver that is within its calibration period and isnt some chinkshit which cant even be sent back to the manufacturer to be recalibrated
>no i'm not going to post it though, i'm just going to take it for granted.
the torque driver and bits in my pic cost as much as the military sniper's scope. i'm quite certain he isnt torquing anything on his rifle to spec.

>>62504169
>people train to fire from awkward positions
>like having your retarded friend grab your bipod and move around your muzzle while sitting in a stream

>>62499839
>>DT of course makes a regular semi 10/22 action bullpup
>Doesn't the 10/22 have cycling issues?
Does it? Not that I've been paying close attention since I'm not interested in the current design, but I haven't noticed reports of anything systematic on various forums that are quick to complain about other problems. Though given DT's (lack of) quality control with their semi-autos it wouldn't surprise me if some did. Of course any after market stock kit is going to be subject to some vagaries of what action people try to put into it, particularly at the low end. I think I remember reading someone trying to get something in there that wouldn't fit and they just cut it up to get it all together and then worked well.

Anyway I still like the idea of some really weight focused precision manual bullpup small gun, but in America I don't think there are any contenders right now. I assume it heavily comes down to the industry just not seeing much market given the costs and what people are used to. Like, MK Machining does a super neat chassis for tikka/rem actions as well, but it's really expensive due to the cost, so it probably makes since most looking to spend that much will get a bigger caliber they can take further.

>>62504178
Are you upset that its a difficult and ineffictive position or that the image shows two people being friends and working together, which is something youve never had? Still I agree, I think all wars should be conducted on known-distance ranges from now on, much much easier.

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I see a lot of pic rails screwed into the receiver with rings mounted on top of that. Any reason not to mount rings directly onto the receiver?

>>62504178
Are you the fag that’s been buying photography tripod heads to desperately defend dropping stupid money on fucking RRS “shooting specific” stuff?

>>62504195
>MK Machining does a super neat chassis
doesnt it weigh like 6 pounds if you care about OAL, then chances are you plan on carrying it through places where OAL matters, and if that is happening then weight probably matters too

>>62504215
it shows that this military sniper is some retarded larper who thinks that pic related was a good idea, and you spergs are equally retarded for white knighting for him trying to justify this retarded position as real training

>>62504221
some actions have rails integrated in to them, see the seekins havak as an example. for your pic, that build is retarded, rings so high that you can never get a cheek weld because there isnt an adjustable comb, and if the stock did have an adjustable comb, it would never get high enough.

>>62504230
>who thinks that pic related was a good idea
point to me exactly where this claim was made in the post in question

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>>62504178
>posts nothing that has anything whatsoever to do with shooting tight groups
>omg guiz all guns will literally shoot 10 moa and then shatter into pieces if you torque to 80.6 or 79.5 instead of 80
Yeah.
>>of course i have a torque driver that is within its calibration period and isnt some chinkshit which cant even be sent back to the manufacturer to be recalibrated
Pic related is plenty good enough for my barrels and such, and good ol cheap shit Lyman is indeed plenty good enough for attaching a scope mount to a rail or red dot or whatever. I do not own a manufacturing business. I do not need more.
>the torque driver and bits in my pic cost as much as the military sniper's scope
Which is literally utterly meaningless to a single person here or to PRS in general you absolute sperg.

>>62504066
>I spend more money than you! And those stoopid snipers!
Sort your shit out anon, or you will die a lonely sad old man

>>62500601
What a massive retard

>>62504227
That shits always good for a laugh I hope he keeps buying more stuff to defend his copes kek

>>62504230
>doesnt it weigh like 6 pounds
No, weighs around 4 lbs. It's actually less than a standard one at least vs Rem 700. Maybe you're thinking of total rifle weight with barreled action? It's not unreasonable for that size, I'm just saying it'd be cool to have a "MK Mini" focused exclusively on 22cal prs cartridges, so 22-250/220swift/22CM, and try to shave off like a pound more. Or even just around 22lr/17hmr. I think it's probably unrealistic though.

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>>62504273
>fixed torque spec
>80 in/lbs
lol so that isnt for a rifle. what fucking action and stock has a torque spec that high?

>Pic related is plenty good enough for my barrels
barrels use foot pounds, not inch pounds

>good ol cheap shit Lyman
as i said, rebranded wheeler tier chinkshit

>Which is literally utterly meaningless
what it means is that anon's build was so poor you can easily assume he didnt have the proper tools to even do the work, nor did he have the budget to pay someone else to do it

>>62504316
>No, weighs around 4 lbs
not according to their website - 96 oz or 6 pounds. pic related

>>62504351
Why do poorfags always feel the need to defend buying poorfag shit ?

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>>62504351
>lol so that isnt for a rifle.
It is though.
>what fucking action and stock has a torque spec that high?
Desert Tech's. That's the torque spec for barrel retention screws, same on both MDR and SRS.
>not according to their website - 96 oz or 6 pounds. pic related
Pic related also from their website right now, so in that case I genuinely don't know. Not like I own it, would have to write and ask him which number is which. I'd do that anyway if I was going to get one and ideally he'd have far more dimensions laid out, since there's also stuff like
>For SBR or short barrel setups, most suppressors will fit inside the handguard
>most suppressors
Like, just list the diameter dude. The trend these days is fatter stuff, I've got one at 1.8" now, and handguards haven't seemed to keep up even brand new.

>>62504383
>It is though.
so it is

>>62503896
>sr2
Looks hard to get. Is there at least a bolt-action .22 that has a folding stock?

>>62504358
Being a poorfag is a way of life

>>62504447
>Looks hard to get.
In the states for sure, fucking one-size-fits-all protectionism expensive import/export regulation bullshit. If someone wants to import an ATGM or MANPAD by all means feds, take a look at that. If someone wants to import a manual action hunting rifle that passes EU regs it shouldn't be any different then importing a fucking coffee grinder beyond running the 4473 like any domestic purchase. There's no "omg national security" thing there either given it's coming in not going out. Ah well.
>Is there at least a bolt-action .22 that has a folding stock?
I've seen folding stock models for both savage mk2s and (better) cz 457s, so yeah that's definitely a thing. From a prg perspective the 457 is probably going to be more reliably accurate, at least the mk2 I used to have could do ok but it was really picky. I've got zero personal experience, but I've seen folding stocks for CZs say they also supported Tikka T1x if you preferred to go that way.

Maybe other anons could help you more with suggestions on a wider range then I know, sorry anon.

>>62497857
Look at the radical defense ls3, sort of flow through so lower back pressure for gas guns. Performed pretty well at tbac this year too

>>62504550
>cz 457 carbon + folding stock
cum

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>>62504152

>>62504642
nta but beautiful stuff, thanks for sharing.

>>62503896
why is the trigger backwards?

>>62504642
After I get a 1301 (my old Ithaca is getting tired) I want to get a longer range gun but I don’t know if I should go for an ar-10, scar20, or a tikka bolt gun to start. I have a “spr” upper with a 1-8 atacr but I want to tap into 6.5 or .308. My only fullsize calibers are milsurp 7.5swiss and 7.62x54r guns

Imagine unironically thinking there's anything wrong with a Howa 1500 and a mid-range Vortex optic. God you miserable flexfaggots really need to touch grass. Absolutely buckbroken.

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>>62493816
Question combined with statement: I live in a fairly heavily forested area but do have access to a field, however the max distance is 198 yds. This applies to most of the area due to terrain and trees. What the fuck do I do when trying to "get into" precision inside that distance? Do I just read instruments? Tiny targets or what?

>>62504818
>Tiny targets
This, and being limited to 200 yards means you have a lot of options when it comes to what you shoot that aren't viable at more extended ranges. Any sort of 'varmint round' is now a great option. Less recoil, less powder. Unironically, build an ultra precise 5.56 or whatever alternative meme round you like and start making 1" ten shot groups at 200.

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>>62504837
Very well. Gun was not really the issue due to pile of AR's and a couple 10's. Kinda pointless that I have a 6.5cm upper, guess I will just keep it around incase everything goes to hell.

>>62504706
>but I don’t know if I should go for an ar-10, scar20, or a tikka bolt gun to start
Do you have anything manual right now? Already have a BR of some kind? Do you plan to suppress? Not like you can't do solid accuracy with all of those, though of course you're covering a pretty massive price spectrum there encompassing basically the entire normal firearms market. So to some extent kinda comes down to whether you want something different and if so how, and taste. Personally for prs I just really LIKE manual operation, it's almost, I dunno, sorta "meditative"? The motion of actively running through the cycle, a forced breath between each shot and in turn each shot feeling more meaningful whether it actually is or not, for me it's an enjoyable part of the experience and being out there.

But it'd be totally understandable if some folks were the opposite and found it took them out of their zone rather then bringing them into it. If you have no bolts so far I'd suggest the Tikka maybe just for trying it out. Conversely if you have zero BRs an AR10 (or even the 20S if it's a dream gun) would of course be lots of fun at all sorts of ranges too. If you already have a can you want to use maybe that's a factor.

>>62504818
>What the fuck do I do when trying to "get into" precision inside that distance?
22lr (and small targets), seriously. The experience of shooting 22lr at those kind of ranges has a lot in common with shooting bigger stuff at 3-5x the range. Bonus, it's cheap as fuck. You can also do the opposite of the normal of picking less windy days and specifically pick more windy days. 22lr at 150-200yd with a lot of wind will give plenty of reading and windage holds practice opportunity.

>>62502006
Ill check into the MK4. A sales men was telling me how the glass glare lens is superb on the MK5, not sure if sales pitch or truth so figured id get some other opinions.

>>62502762
Thats a HUGE fov difference. Thanks for bringing that up, I dont check pastebins as most are terribly outdated. The FX might be a very worthwhile candidate. Yup I dont mind shitting on any brand. A good product is a good product period. Weight is the most important quality after good FOV/reticle/glass clarity.

>>62503415
Defiance Anti X 300wm
Custom barrel that is going to be shaped to the reciever than contoured down
PSE E Tac UL stock
Custom Nitride for the rec
Than all the attachments like Atlasworx dbm, MDT Elite rings, than trigger (havent decided yet)

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>>62504706
Pretty personal choice, all of them would be good fun. Gas guns have gotten extremely accurate over the years if you're concerned about maximum accuracy. Rock Creek's OEM LMT 5R barrels have proven to be good enough that it eats 95% of my long distance precision shooting. Unfortunately very rarely get to stretch further than 1,000 yards and the MWS can stitch groups tighter than I'm capable of outshining. Plays great with FGMM 175gr SMKs which is relatively cheap as far as factory match ammo goes. Still thinking about giving Bergara a shot in a more niche caliber. All of my current bolt guns are old and basic deer rifles in shit like 7mm and 30-06.

>>62504884
20s would probably be a bit overkill for a noob, but the scar is kinda a dream gun for me. I really like my k-31 but I don’t really feel like blowing through the rest of my gp11 and new ammo is getting expensive. My mosin is still kinda fun but I have no other bolt actions (I don’t count my inherited arisaka because I don’t shoot it). I’d probably be more likely to grab a 16” scar desu. I’ve always wanted a tikka bolt action for some reason too. I have no 7.62x51 guns so logistically I think a 6.5 might make more sense. I have 3 ar uppers and 2 lowers so I could skip an ar-10 unless it makes the most sense. I guess a tikka kinda makes sense then unless bergara or someone else makes a better rifle these days

>>62505180
Looks like a super sweet build you've put some real thought into, hope you'll share it and impressions once you get it together.
>Custom barrel that is going to be shaped to the reciever than contoured down
It's definitely fun to be able to customize a barrel just as you like. The 300wm I got for op is a 1:8 twist so I can play with some of the new very high bc heavy 30cal load options, and since I knew I wanted to use a hyperion with it guy was happy to do a specific sig 25 deg taper shoulder so that it'd direct thread perfectly vs the normal 90deg. Being able to pick the exact contour for your goals, fluting and so on and have it all tested by someone who really knows what they're doing isn't required by any means but a nice luxury.

>>62505272
lol I spent 5 years planning then saving up a few hundred a month for my dream, not gonna criticize you in the slightest if you really want to go for it, overkill or not. Just don't go into debt for it.
>I have no 7.62x51 guns so logistically I think a 6.5 might make more sense.
If you have no existing ties in terms of ammo, reloading dies etc, and don't want some specific guns in it, yeah makes sense to go right to 6.5 at this point (or for some folks something more exotic, but not 308 in any case).
>I guess a tikka kinda makes sense then unless bergara or someone else makes a better rifle these days
Tikka, Bergara and Rem are all excellent. Bergara's premier matches Tikka's in smoothness feel now, so you can just get into the nitty gritty on pricing and features. If you enjoy your mosin alright still but have no other bolts, then this I think would be a good first step. Unless you're ready to run out the door and get that 20S, but if you just want to nice long range gun for awhile and see whether you end up doing a lot of it, a T3X or HMR premier in 6.5 would go a long ways.
>I have 3 ar uppers and 2 lowers so I could skip an ar-10 unless it makes the most sense
It's a free (or minimal priced) way to get into it if that's what you already have got, but if you don't specifically want the battlerifle aspects and are considering something else anyway yeah not where I'd invest more from the sound of it.

>>62504795
>mid-range Vortex optic
Anon, the diamond back isnt a mid range optic, or even mid range for vortex's line, it is in their low end offerings and priced accordingly. Razor > Viper > Strike Eagle > Venom > Diamondback > Crossfire.

> Absolutely buckbroken
that projection from a poor who thinks $400 diamond backs are mid range. do you have any idea how expensive ammo is? Thats like 260 rounds of match .308. Thats how little that scope is worth. If you can't afford better glass, you certainly can't afford to feed the gun. And if you're looking at more specialized cartridges like 6.5 PRC, it is like 160 rounds of ammo. The Howa 1500 didnt cost that much more than the scope either.

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since we have a real deal rifle builder here and not just someone who screws parts together can you tell me what it means when my reamer is only cutting with 3/6 flutes?

>>62505663
That you bought a chinese reamer.

>>62505663
have you tried measuring it and making sure the flutes are the same length? that is the most obvious cause. considering you're asking us and not whoever you bought the reamer from, and that you're using some tape as a depth stop, gives the impression you're also someone who just screws parts together and somehow got access to a lathe.

>>62505691
>length
height

>>62505663
lol you’re to poor to get reamers that work ?

>>62505289
Im sure I will share it once its all done. I have some other elr guns, but I really want one I can hunt with without beating myself up with recoil nor weight. I think this one will be the perfect balance of target shooting and hunting. Hopefully it comes out looking as good as I am hoping. Just need to wait for it to get finished up and pick an optic.

I think 300wm is the best bolt gun cartidge. Easy to find, cheap as hell and you can customize the round if you reload to basically oblivion and back.

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>>62505678
>>62505705
I didn't buy it it was provided by the customer I was building the rifle for. it ended up shooting 1/3 moa so I guess it was fine but I was worried I had totally fucked the chamber.

>>62505691
>not using tape
I bet you buy roughing reamers and no-go gauges

>>62505841
so what kind of lathe would i need to be able to chamber and thread my own barrels
also any recs for where to learn how?

>>62505926
It would be difficult to chamber a barrel on a lathe alone. Threading would be much simpler so long as you have a sufficiently long enough bed & boring tool. Good places to learn would be YT and CCs.

>>62505998
what are you talking about what else would you use to chamber a barrel besides a lathe?

>>62505926
you need one with a spindle bore big enough to fit the barrel through. the one I used there is 14x40 which is a common size for gunsmithing.

>>62506157
>what else would you use to chamber a barrel besides a lathe?
Probably a mill

>>62506199
why would you need a mill to chamber a barrel?

>>62506218
My bad. I was thinking of the older barrels where the breach is part of the barrel.

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>>62505841
>no-go gauges
field reject too
>>62505841
>I was worried I had totally fucked the chamber.
you have a lathe but not cerrosafe?

>>62505720
>I think 300wm is the best bolt gun cartidge. Easy to find, cheap as hell and you can customize the round if you reload to basically oblivion and back.
Yeah I chose it too for another go-around this time. It's been solid for ages and still is despite plenty of attempted replacements put up over the decades. That said 300 PRC is the first one that I could see actually changing to if it follows the path of 6.5 and catches on enough to about match the price. Compared to previous ones and other aggressive modern cartridges in the class it seems to have no asterisks and relatively practical to me. Barrel life seems about the same as 300wm for example which is important in a replacement imo. It is more reload friendly, since belted brass doesn't last as long and is somewhat harder to size, and the longer neck lets take full advantage of the entire case capacity and use longer stuff without backing into the powder chamber or going out of spec. Though if you're throated for heavies anyway I think they're pretty identical, but defaults are nice. Headspaces at the shoulder of course instead of belt, throat slop is literally like an order of magnitude less.

None of which is enough to get me to pay 2.5x the price off the shelf, I like to play with loads too but I also like having cheaper (for long action anyway) factory available everywhere and I do plenty of shooting where the differences don't matter much. But I was completely wrong in my expectations for how 6.5CM would go and how fucking fast it'd get cheap vs 308 once the tipping point happened. When 6.5 was 2-4x the price the advantages were debatable. When it's 1.1x the price, or the same even for equivalent performance, then why not? Similar thing with 300prc, if it got popular enough no reason it couldn't end up with 10% or so the price. Not like it uses radically more brass, powder, bigger primers or whatever. Just a matter of mass production, or not. Plus you get to directly recycle a lot of 30cal stuff.

>>62506291
tbf once your brass is fireformed you can just bump the shoulder to headspace there like any other bottleneck and kind of ignore the belt which sort of removes that concern from 300wm as well.

>>62506332
True, and this is all written by someone who was wrong already lol so might be over correcting. But looking at the very few more modern (last decade or two) cartridges that actually managed to take off and make it mainstream, 300bo and 6.5CM being the major ones, they seem characterized by being kinda modest? Not doing anything radical, the sort of stuff reloaders and enthusiasts consider boring, but taking that and making it accessible to everyone without any significant tradeoffs. Yeah there was whisper first. Yeah serious 300wm people are already doing all that and have been for ages. But I've kinda come around to it still being nice if some refinements make it out to everyone, so you can recommend it to your buddies and people just getting started. Not changing the world, just kinda being a little improvement? And then that gets to be a new baseline people play with. If my dad wants to try out some of my out of spec 300wm reloads I have to pay attention to his gun. If we both had 300prc just wouldn't need to think about it, if that makes any sense?

I dunno. Anyway certainly not something I'd ever rebarrel to but in another few years when I got to buy a new one anyway and the switching cost is 0, I'll be taking a look. If the price was down to like 0-15% more than 300wm at that point, I think I might switch and start suggesting others consider it for new builds.

>>62506403
Agreed, standardization is overall a good thing. I also agree that recent cartridges that "made it" versus very similar competition did so by being generalists. 6.5CM vs 260 Rem doesn't really matter a whole lot when you are getting a barrel turned and throated to support your projectiles of choice, however 260 Rem commercial offerings being pigeonholed into slow twist hunting loads whereas 6.5CM could both do that and run factory heavy target loads in factory guns really set it apart. Similarly the fast twist 6mm space is still being fought over, but no one brings up 243 despite its long term hunting popularity since it only matters in a target shooting context to guys building custom rifles and loading for them.

>>62500494
/prg/ is not for insecure cunts, you are looking for /arg/

>>62503895
The projection is strong.
t. fellow Alcoholic

>>62493816
Is it wrong to use a muzzle brake when sorting from the bench at the range?

*when shooting

>>62502036
Didn't the IRA often crossdress to avoid initial detection?

>>62504066
>>62504087
Post groups

>>62504140
>sees gay sex in everything
Are you russian by chance?

>>62506504
Use your common sense and try to be reasonable in terms of not giving anyone else a terrible time I guess? Like if you pull into your booth and get out your 50bmg or other bigboolet with huge brake right next to some dad trying to teach his kid maybe shoot something else a bit first and give 'em a chance to finish up. Or just check in, "hey I want to shoot something big/loud in a bit". Or ask the RO to see if you can go to the end when an opening comes up, or a place empty on each side if there is one.

You don't have to care about the young dude mag dumping his 8" sbr fireball launcher though.

>>62506559
Biggest i have is 6.5 creed

>>62506582
Kinda have to judge by the range and what people are doing then. I'm in a rural area but actually with very few ranges, because most people just shoot on their own land or public land. People who go are usually trying to do something specific, newguns, or members bringing out of town friends/family and stuff like that, and it's not easy for them to go anywhere else. In that sort of case it's usually polite to check in on those next to you, or try to sort. Like often everyone with brakes or big guns or the like just group themselves to be off to the right, leaves one space to the other side. Works fine and friendly.

I guess if it's half deserted just go get some space. If it's not but lots are using brakes, go be with the brakes and that's easy. If nobody is using brakes but you for whatever coincidence check. There's endless ranges out there and they're all different, some are easy going some have rules a mile long. Just try to fit in. If it's a crap range hopefully there is something else around.

>>62506504
>>62506582
Just try to take a stall on the end or one without someone on each side, especially kids. I wouldn't have a problem with you setting up next to me that is what ranges and ear pro are for.

>>62506504
My local KD range self segregates due to how the berms are laid out and in general the long range guys are pretty tolerant of brakes since they are probably using them as well if they don't have a suppressor.

>>62504659
>>62504642
I am that anon, and goddamn, I like it. Nice one man

>>62505610
>that projection from a poor
The founding fathers would spit on you for putting down a man who was interested in owing a personal firearm because hes a 'poor'. Get a life man for real

>>62506930
the founding fathers were wealthy men and would laugh at poors like you as well for thinking a $400 scope was mid range you retarded faggot

>>62507098
Youre an absolute disgrace.

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>>62507183
you do realize the founding fathers owned slaves? your retarded idea that they were all for freedom, and that all classes were equal was some retarded fantasy you learned from your 3rd grade teacher which you never grew out of

>>62507267
>>62507183
real Americans arm each other

>>62493973
Picked up a begara B14 squared in 7prc recently and have been loving it. Taking it elk hunting in NM next month.

>>62507445
real americans enslave the poors

>>62506291
Couldnt have said it better myself. The pricepoint for 300prc doesnt make sense, yet.

I hope it becomes more popular and prices drop, but 300wm has such a strong foothold I dont see it happening any time soon because 300wm has so many "legacy" rifles I couldnt imagine anyone wanting to risk making 300wm obsolete.

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Can't shoot this weekend so I'll bump with a picture.

>>62507589
purchasing slaves is not enslaving people, it's buying products available on the free market

>>62507726
>I hope it becomes more popular and prices drop, but 300wm has such a strong foothold I dont see it happening any time soon because 300wm has so many "legacy" rifles I couldnt imagine anyone wanting to risk making 300wm obsolete.
Eh, that's how I felt about 308 too and there are way WAY more 308 rifles than 300wm right? Yet that didn't prevent 6.5CM from becoming mainstream. I certainly don't think 300wm is going to go away at all, it just might be that for new builds it becomes less of a default.

And it also "helps" and shouldn't be forgotten that 300wm is still pretty hard on barrels too. Even when used on a lighter schedule (like hunting with some shooting for practice) barrel life is generally around 2000 rounds, +/- a few hundred, and using it for prs can easily end up more like 1300-1600. Nothing like 308 which can last 10k+ and for a lot of people might well be a single barrel per life of a given rifle. With 300wm if you shoot much (and thus care) you're going to be used to new barrels on a not super infrequent basis, and for a lot of new bolt guns 300prc would be a drop in replacement or close to it. I could see that juicing things by making the effective replacement cost zero (had to buy a new barrel anyway).

But it might well be it doesn't get critical mass and ends up niche like so many before it, which would be fine too.

do you guys who get stainless barrels cerakote them or anything?

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>>62499483
I won’t shoot past 1000 at all for the most part. Do you feel like you still have a good ability to spot the targets at 16x or are they getting a little too small at that point?

Anyone have any favorite range diary software or the like you use? Or do you just have a spreadsheet or something? I know there's 50 billion apps, but I hate how every single last one of them demands a subscription. Wouldn't be the end of the world to just make a spread sheet, but if there's something fairly smooth that has some nice quality of life features in terms of tracking bullet counts, loads and so on I'd be interested. Bonus points if it ties into any common chronos or whatever. I'm fine paying, so long as it's a one time purchase (if they want a paid upgrade a few years later that's fine too so long as I have a choice).

>>62509999
the fake bokeh from portrait mode on phones is absolutely disgusting

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Hey /prg/ I'm M110 curious and sort of thinking about maybe getting one in a year or two. I know the legacy KAC (and new Griffin armament) cans mount to the gasblock and has pins not dissimilar to the current crop of QDC cans for indexing and to make sure other gas block mounting cans can't be used accidentally.

Knowing that, are there other muzzle devices that are compatible with the M110 that allow the use of muzzle mounted suppressors (for example the QDC cans) and the legacy style gas block mount cans? Or do the traditional M110 cans also index off the flash suppressor preventing compatibility with other muzzle devices?

This is financially a ways off because I bought my first house last month but I've lusted after the M110 for a long time since getting some time with one in the Marine Corps. What I would like to have is a legacy KAC can, one of the new production griffin M110 cans and a traditional muzzle mounted suppressor for it. I'm not necessarily going to be autistic about it being "clone correct" except for where it really matters, I want to shoot the gun and not feel bad or worried about putting rounds through it.

>>62509999
Nice digits. nta but yeah I think 16x does ok under most conditions, even given some margin for practicalities, assuming decent vision. You have nice glass which also gives you a little more margin, less chromatic aberration etc means you get more full use of your whole range.

Lne of the funny things is 20/20 vision itself is literally defined as 1 moa. Makes it easy to roughly reason, at 1000 yd someone with 20/20 vision should (on a flat grass plane with spherical cows) be able to resolve down to ~10.4" with their naked eyes (in reality there's complexities around contrast and angles but close enough). So 10x mag would let them get to ~1.04", and 16x mag down to 0.65". Since for those kinds of ranges most of us are exclusively aiming at reasonably high contrast targets vs the environment it works ok. If you have 20/30 or 20/15 adjust accordingly.

>>62510973
interested to hear any opinions on that one myself

>>62512099
The vision thing is very interesting never knew or thought about that

>>62510973
I'll start with the question, is it really worth it to swap devices like that? I fuck up my zero offset enough between suppressed/unsuppressed let alone with additional suppressors to add to the mix.
Considering neither KAC nor GA make cross compatible muzzle devices even for their own muzzle mount offerings you'd probably have to start with either getting a technical drawing or pulling measurements from one then go shopping around to see what muzzle mount style would work or could have non-critical areas turned down to register on the reflex can but still work with its intended muzzle mount style. I know my dealer would be fine with me playing with calipers and whatever they have on hand, so maybe yours will too.

Ron Paul /prg/!

What opinion eventually formed in the precision shooting community about the RPR and other "entry level" but feature rich precision rifles? Not an area or disciplines I follow, but everyone seemed excited about them a few years ago, but now I hear nothing about them and I'm curious.

>>62513965
I always thought they were a good off the shelf PRS style rifle. The "everything is included" approach is great as long as the everything you are paying for is what you want. If you buy one and are looking to rebarrel it, swap the handguard, replace the stock portion of the chassis, etc then the value proposition falls off quickly.

>>62513922
I mean you raise a really good point, it isn't. Maybe having that sort of flexibility is something I see as being a holdover to use a can I already own or an easier to buy can than the KAC M110 or the Griffin MGL-110 are. The muzzle device doesn't necessarily need to be from GA or KAC. It could be surefire or rearden for all I really care.

I'm not too far down the road from Wright Armory so maybe they could take that on if it really came down to it but for now I just need to save my money.

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Are there any 3 lug long actions that don’t cost like $3000?

>>62514246
If you expect a significant gap between when you purchase the rifle and the reflex suppressor then just pay what it takes to mount the supressor you have in the meantime. On a build that is likely several thousand even when not built off an SR25, the cost of an extra muzzle device somewhere in the process seems trivial.

>>62514522
Terminus?

>>62514522
ruger american
browning x bolt
tikka I think

>>62512099
How does being farsighted affect this? It's not exactly clear because the scope is something close, but you're looking at something off in the distance.

>>62515187
Not farsighted myself, but while the scope is close it's not like the scope is a display. The physical light rays are still coming from the far object collected and bent through the lenses, far sight just means the eye focus to the back of the retina is off, but scopes have enormous focus capability for distant light. So I'd assume it'd at most just change how someone farsighted focused it, same as someone near sighted. It's not like it's astigmatism where there's blur at any distance. The reticle of course is close, but that's why scopes always have an eyepiece where you can adjust the diopter a fair amount and first step with a new one is getting that clear for your own eyes right? If someone was so far sighted it exceeded how much adjustment was available onboard though might need additional glasses, just enough to see the reticle.

Though I said "not a display" but then there are those digital scopes now like those ATN ones, or thermals that go in front of a regular scope. Honestly I've never got behind a digital scope, I assume it must be like VR where it's a small high res screen with some lens system to extend the focus for comfortable normal 20/20 viewers? But of course everything will be flat on a single plane. Dunno. Maybe at some point when wearable retina scanning MR displays get good enough that'll be an option, dispense with any complex eyepiece and just have it pumped right into your eyes, no need to get behind the gun at all, infinite eyebox, eye lens geometry and defects would no longer matter so long as the retina worked.

>>62515187
nta, but tangentially related it's a good idea to wear your corrective lenses even if your scope has enough diopter adjustment to cater to your needs viewing through it since rarely does shooting require only looking through the scope. contacts will follow your eye and better keep the correction inline with different head positions, but I have heard of guys also getting upsidedown bifocals made for sighting through the top of the lens when your face is on the stock.

>>62514608
>>62515143
>terminus
$1600 for a the action alone, nah
>american
They don’t make long action americans, the .300 win mags are some weird 3.34” medium action that only takes proprietary 3 round mags
>tikka, browning
I’ll look into these

should be able to squeeze in a little lunch shooting today, maybe a few dozen rounds. will try to get some chrono numbers up for a few copper 300wm rounds been curious about. numbers wont be perfect but will be interested to see how different price ranges (below real nice) do

>>62515187
some scopes have an adjustment on the eye piece which lets you focus it like wearing glasses

>>62515912
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/rifles/ruger-american-30-06-springfield-black-bolt-action-rifle-22in/p/1291029
this isn't long action?

>>62517786
It isn't an actual magnum length long action, no. It's also got essentially zero aftermarket compared to the short action american rifles.

>>62514608
I expect a gap only because the two M110 compatible cans are hard to come by or very expensive. You're right, it is a trivial amount but this is a long term saving thing for me so if I can save $500 it's something I would consider.

Want me some Horizon's Lord in 14,5

>>62493828
>.22 lr rifle is the best way to learn long range on a budget
I want to do this but it's surprisingly difficult to find .22s in left hand bolt. Are Savage and CZ my only options? Should I just get a 10/22 instead?

>>62518504
Bergara makes the B14R in a left hand barreled action and as a complete rifle

>>62518634
I had already dismissed it after seeing the price. Is it actually worth considering at twice the price of the CZ?

>>62518727
if you want the massive after market available for remington 700 short actions it is. also i'm not sure how it is twice the price. eurooptic has the cz 457 for $597 and the B14R $952

>>62518883
>B14R $952
other places have it for $890
https://lockedloaded.com/product-details?id=346500

>>62504066
I like those Wiha prostate knobs

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>>62493816
When did those guys start making green again.
All that was available when I got mine was black and baby-shit-brown.

>>62518883
>>62518921
Okay, so as a poorfag with only $1000 to spend on a .22 my options are:
>Savage MkII + trigger + stock + bipod + optic
>CZ 457 + bipod + optic
>Bergara B14 + bipod + shoot like shit because 20/30 vision
What's my play here?

>>62518227
magnum length is different from long action. short action is .308 size, long action is 30-06 size.

>>62519528
Oh

>>62519528
They're the same length, the difference is the bolt face.

>>62497857
b and t flow through for scar.If you are keeping your barrel 20 inches you may not need to change your jets. the atacr 7-35 is really nice and its about the same weight and size as the 5-25 but its a better scope.

>>62519723
no they're not. the original rigby magnums built on military actions had to mill out the magazine well to fit the longer cartridges in.

>>62519759
The Remington 700, which 90% of custom actions are also based on, comes in two action lengths and two diameters, although the short magnum action might as well not exist.

>>62519175
>When did those guys start making green again.
It seems to be something they do in spurts once in awhile. St Patrick's day they did it this year. I was glad, I like green a lot better than flat shit brown. Guess I could have done a hydrocoat or skin or something if it came down to it though.

But black works too, looking good anon on both kat and gat there.

>>62519410
The NRL22 "meta" if you will is a 457 + the best glass they can afford with the offset of the specific CZ model choice to make base division <$1300 MSRP limit. The common splits seem to fall to a 457 Synthetic SR + Bushnell Match Pro ED (favors optic) or a 457 Varmint MTR + Arken EP5 (favors rifle).
Starting with the cheaper CZ is a cheaper path to Open division assuming replacement of barrel, stock, etc while keeping the optic for a bit. Starting with the MTR suggests the shooter is planning to keep the rifle itself in stock form/Base division longer.
You can of course buy whatever you want but following the unofficial competition playbook is a decent start.

>>62521302
damn is there really a price limit? how does that work for second hand purchases and stuff?

>>62521302
CZ it is. Appreciate it, anon.

>>62521515
The price limit is specifically for their Base division since its intended to attract new competitors. They use current MSRP for the model of the rifle + optic to determine the spending towards cap. How much was paid for them street price or on the secondary market is irrelevant.

>>62521573
what if you use a gun that isn't in current production? do they go off blue book value?

>>62521597
MSRP of last production of that model plugged into the bis.gov inflation calculator. Here next year's rules if you are interested in digging into them. Looks like the MSRP limit is being increased to $1500 (I assume to adjust for inflation).

https://nrl22.com/nrl22-rules-2025/

>>62521609
I'm not sure what it would work out to but now I really regret not buying that winchester 52 I saw in a gun store for $400.

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>>62521626
52 Sporter with Gold Bead and Lyman rear was $197.25 in this 1960 print ad. That's $2119.23 adjusted to today. Considering some of the used prices I saw looking for that ad, $400 would have been a decent deal if you wanted a 52. If you actually wanted a 10/22 though its not going to satisfy at any price.

>>62521302
Don't suppose you have thoughts on Arken SH-4J vs EP5?

>>62521680
Not in comparison to each other, and I've only had minimal time looking through other's Arkens most of which I think have been EP models. In general I can say I would be happy with an Arken considering their prices. In that like $300-500 range they blow stuff from a decade ago out of the water and in features they are more appropriate for precision work than some old NFs, Trijs, and Leupolds I have at many times less the price.
Its easy to grandstand about optic brands, but especially for smallbore where absolute resolution and image control matter less I personally would be happy with a good many of the modern chinese scopes I've seen.

>>62521680
>>62521794
also unable to comment on both pitted against each other but i will say that im very happy with my sh4j 6-24, only 2 complaints being i wish it wasnt so damn heavy for my ar and damn the caps are massive and tall

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Are any of these spotters be a good buy for zeroing optics from 0-200? Won't be using it for anything else, so these prices seem like overkill.

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So, Is a Ruger Precision in 300 PRC, a Vortex Rzr Gen 3 6-36 in a (30 MOA) Spuhr Mount, a CSG Hyperion Screw on Can, A Arca Bipod and Monopod, and 600 Rounds of 225 Gr ELDM @ 2780 a good start?

Rifle Cartridge, 225.0 gr
# Speed (FPS) Δ AVG (FPS) KE (FT-LBS) Power Factor (kgr⋅ft/s) Time
1 2762.5 -19.3 3812.0 621.6 14:42:39
2 2781.9 0.1 3865.7 625.9 14:44:31
3 2791.2 9.4 3891.7 628.0 14:45:17
4 2786.0 4.1 3877.0 626.8 14:46:21
5 2787.6 5.8 3881.6 627.2 14:46:54
-
AVERAGE SPEED 2781.8
AVERAGE POWER FACTOR 625.9
STD DEV 10.1
SPREAD 28.7
Projectile Weight (GRAINS) 225.0

>>62521885
I'd take a bag over the mono, but sounds like fun.

>>62521885
Definitely looks like a really serious setup. Though with that 5 shot, remember standard barrels will speed up a little bit for the first ~100-200 rounds as they wear in. Serious comp guys generally put that through (also verifying it of course) before taking a barrel out. Early on in particular that can spread out your std-dev a bit.
>>62521927
Can't comment on that one but I've been surprisingly happy with the built-in mono on the SRS so far along with a quality bipod. It can do both rough and fine adjustment fairly well. I think a good bag at the range still beats it, you can just make fine changes so smoothly, but the convenience factor and having something always with you in the woods or wherever is real. I don't think a mono is a bad call anymore.

Not a proper precision rifle but has anyone here used a Benelli R1? Was very interested in getting one but have heard poor reports on the accuracy of the rifle and was just looking for more information on it.

>>62522849
Not used personally, but know of a couple being used as an alternative to the BAR for deer slaying. Never heard complaints about accuracy, which to me says it's at least a ~2 MOA rifle with the requisite decent ammo. I would not grab one to try to stitch together tight groups at 800+ yards.

Any canadians in here? Im thinking of building a custom bolt gun but id like to keep the costs down a little.

Just looking for a good action and i see that prophet river has i think new production remington 700 actuons for around 1k....worth it? Or are there any other suggestions?

>>62524461
$1000 for a new production remshit action sounds like a terrible deal but I have no idea what the exchange rate is. Is it possible to import an action from the US or would that double the price?

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>>62524569
I think its pretty close to double once the exchange rate goes through and import fees are paid...

Pic related is what we're up against. Northlandshootersupply (as a quick comparison) has this same action for $1k USD but up here its $1.6k CAD.

ive already got a 6.5creedmoor that i send out to 1k yards and beyond, but id like to step up to the 300 prc for further shoots...

>>62524716
>60%
In that case the Defiance Classic should be like 1100 CAD, get that instead.

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>>62526185
Ehh...

>>62526326
Maybe better off getting a compete gun, then? How much is a Ruger Precision Rifle or Tikka T3x?

>>62506559
>You don't have to care about the young dude mag dumping his 8" sbr fireball launcher though.

i have a 12" AK 47 thats loud as fuck and the RO's always put me at the end now after me doing CQB drills with it. i need to get a suppressor for it

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>>62523332
Thanks, I appreciate it. I did some more research and from what I am reading (given the source is random forums to be taken with a healthy dose of salt) early production ones didn't have a spring in the fore end follower which negatively affected accuracy. (easy enough to replace with a new one too)

>>62526663
rpr is like 2k-3k depending on caliber, t3x is like 1k and up, t3x tac is 3k

>>62493828
Is there any breakdown of good range finders?

>>62527496
I know it would fuck the budget up but have you considered just getting something from PGW?

>>62526888
>i need to get a suppressor for it
The triple 8s have spoken anon. Get off that lazy butt and go pick out a can.
>>62528190
Nothing up to date, that'd be a good thing to do some research on. Though ultra roughly last I checked there was
- "rated for 1000yd, gets 450 in practice, LCD display"
- "rated for 800-2000yd, actually tells you whether the rating is for a reflective target or not, fancier modes, maybe illuminated display"
- "rated for 2000-4000yd, even more modes, illuminated, has bluetooth link for feeding data into ballistics apps"
Some features mixed and matched but more money basically was more powerful laser/sensor, more features, and tying into other calculators was considered a bonus feature. That as a year ago though, with how fast things change would be good to look at again. Would be nice if data integration and shit made it down market into cheap ones so you didn't have to pay more money for range you didn't need.

>>62527496
Sounds like they'll fit your budget considering you were looking at a $1000 action. Does one of them meet your requirements?

>>62528190
I’d keep an eye out for a cheap Terrapin with Vectronix‘s new bino’s hitting the market

>>62529000
>>62529211
>solution. dont be poor.
give your head a shake holy fuck

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>>62522838
Seems pretty stable as I am about 300 rounds in.
Rifle Cartridge, 225.0 gr 300 prc hornady eldm 26"
# Speed (FPS) Δ AVG (FPS) KE (FT-LBS) Power Factor (kgr⋅ft/s) Time
1 2811.2 27.7 3947.5 632.5 13:00:16
2 2787.1 3.6 3880.1 627.1 13:01:11
3 2780.9 -2.5 3863.1 625.7 13:02:30
4 2749.4 -34.1 3775.9 618.6 13:02:53
5 2763.3 -20.2 3814.1 621.7 13:03:39
6 2776.2 -7.2 3850.0 624.7 13:05:50
7 2781.7 -1.7 3865.3 625.9 13:06:52
8 2771.8 -11.7 3837.6 623.6 13:07:51
9 2802.4 18.9 3922.9 630.5 13:08:07
10 2810.6 27.1 3945.9 632.4 13:12:20
-
AVERAGE SPEED 2783.5
STD DEV 19.1
SPREAD 61.8

# Speed (FPS) Δ AVG (FPS) KE (FT-LBS) Power Factor (kgr⋅ft/s) Time
1 2811.5 27.0 3948.6 632.6 13:16:46
2 2768.6 -15.9 3829.0 622.9 13:18:18
3 2764.7 -19.8 3818.0 622.1 13:18:40
4 2771.3 -13.2 3836.4 623.5 13:24:10
5 2789.6 5.1 3887.3 627.7 13:25:24
6 2759.9 -24.6 3804.9 621.0 13:26:12
7 2730.0 -54.6 3722.7 614.2 13:27:17
8 2812.7 28.1 3951.7 632.8 13:27:30
9 2795.0 10.5 3902.3 628.9 13:28:01
10 2808.9 24.4 3941.3 632.0 13:28:57
11 2794.7 10.2 3901.3 628.8 13:34:47
12 2787.4 2.8 3881.0 627.2 13:35:10
13 2801.6 17.0 3920.6 630.4 13:35:31
14 2764.7 -19.8 3818.1 622.1 13:36:00
15 2807.3 22.8 3936.7 631.6 13:36:42

AVERAGE SPEED 2784.5
STD DEV 23.1
SPREAD 82.7

# Speed (FPS) Δ AVG (FPS) KE (FT-LBS) Power Factor (kgr⋅ft/s) Time
1 2777.6 7.1 3853.9 625.0 14:20:07
2 2757.3 -13.2 3797.7 620.4 14:20:40
3 2789.3 18.9 3886.5 627.6 14:22:18
4 2782.6 12.1 3867.6 626.1 14:23:27
5 2764.6 -5.9 3817.7 622.0 14:24:16
6 2784.7 14.2 3873.6 626.6 14:26:45
7 2790.3 19.8 3889.0 627.8 14:27:05
8 2746.7 -23.8 3768.6 618.0 14:27:34
9 2749.4 -21.1 3775.9 618.6 14:28:16
10 2768.8 -1.6 3829.5 623.0 14:28:48
11 2805.1 34.7 3930.6 631.2 14:31:11
12 2746.6 -23.9 3768.3 618.0 14:31:45
13 2756.8 -13.7 3796.3 620.3 14:32:11
14 2781.8 11.3 3865.5 625.9 14:32:34
15 2755.6 -14.9 3792.9 620.0 14:33:39

AVERAGE SPEED 2770.5
AVERAGE POWER FACTOR 623.4
STD DEV 17.7
SPREAD 58.5

>>62530400
Nice, yeah that should be well through barrel wear in, thanks for sharing the numbers anon. I'm still getting going with mine so it'll be awhile but if anything looks interesting I'll post em anyway. Only 300wm not prc this time around and I'm probably not going to try my go-to fancy ammo until it seems stable but that's still a good point of reference.

>>62529000
Yeah im >>62524461

It just isnt in the books...thats a lot of coin for my recreational hobby.

I may go the tikka t3x varmint rount

>>62532754
Totally fair. Budget builds are beloved on /prg/ anyway.

Will 6mm ARC ever get down to 6.5 Grendel prices?

Rifle: 22.5" 300 winmag
Cartridge: S&B TXRG 180gr
# Speed (FPS) Δ AVG (FPS)
1. 2752.6 -29.3
2. 2767.7 -14.2
3. 2821.3 39.4
4. 2785.4 3.4
5. 2768.4 -13.5
6. 2781.7 -0.2
7. 2778.6 -3.3
8. 2790.0 8.1
9. 2775.7 -6.2
10. 2785.2 13.3
11. 2771.3 -10.6
12. 2795.2 13.3

AVG: 2781.9
SPREAD: 68.8
STD DEV: 16.8

This is a brand new barrel only just getting going playing with. Honestly could be worse for my absolute cheapest ammo I got on sale for 133 cpr awhile back. Shot #3 was the major outlier, without that std dev would have been 11.4 and the spread 42.6. Certainly not handload level but for 300wm cheap factory that's ok to be practicing with. Looking forward to comparing it to some other stuff including really nice factory later.

Which of the following is the best long range cartridge?

243 winchester
270 winchester
270 wsm
30-06
7mm rem mag
300 win mag

>>62536418
of those the 300 winmag

>>62536418
Depends on what you're doing. The magnums will have more power than the non-magnums so they will go further, the .270 WSM will fit a much longer ogive length into the same magazine as the long magnums and doesn't have the dumb belt, but isn't as powerful as .300 WM.

I still think 300 fudd belt is the most overrated cartridge of all time. what does it even have going for it besides velocity? the belt sucks and it has coal issues with heavy bullets. there are way better more modern options for 30 cal.

>>62538429
>besides velocity
its cheap compared to similarly performing cartridges
>the belt sucks
can be completely ignored loading for a single rifle
>has coal issues with heavy bullets
shoot a remington based action and enjoy 3.85 detachable or 4.0 internal mags. Leave the 3.34 SAAMI loads for Savage and Tikka shooters.
>better more modern options
I don't disagree, but 300wm still fucks

>>62538540
is it really that much cheaper? I'm on ammo seek and hornady 200 grain 300 win mag and 212 grain 300 prc are both around $2 per round. I can't find 300 win mag from berger with over 200gr bullets, but the 185s are around $3.20 per round compared to $3.45 for 205s for 300 prc. surely you guys aren't building expensive target rifles and then shooting aguila through them.

>>62538429
This is like saying the same about 308, 5.56 or 9mm, it's tiresome anon. And honestly at this point almost anytime I see someone use the word "overrated" on the internet these days I think less of them because it's such a stupid term, it's not like they've surveyed people, they're using it as a way to whine about something being "popular on the commercial market" and implying it's because everyone is stupid. But things stay popular on the market all the time for reasons of practicality that come with previous mass adoption, even if it's not ideal. Something new can't just be a little bit better, it's got to be good enough to justify switching costs. And even then adoption will be slow unless there is pressing need.

300wm is a perfectly decent "308, but a bit more". It's popular and highly available, works with the infinite amount of 30cal stuff people already have, and replacement contenders have all been flawed in one way or another. Most people don't shoot far enough often enough for it to be pressing. Those who DO, serious PRS folks, either reload and/or did indeed all move on a long time ago duh. If you reloaded anon you'd know you can just have your chamber bored for longer COAL beyond 300wm specs and adjust accordingly, and in that case it's frankly still pretty competitive.

I actually do think at this point 300prc is looking pretty promising as a direct upgrade in every respect that might also get market adoption, like 6.5 CM vs 308. But if it happens it'll be gradual, as people shoot through their existing ammo and barrels and it appears on the shelf at the same price.
>>62539158
see >>62535752

>>62539373
but when you're buying a new rifle there's basically zero cost unless you already bought reloading dies. recommending it to someone buying his first rifle or first target rifle doesn't have any merit over any other option. also es of 68 isn't that great?

>>62539158
>Hornady's darling new magnum has factory Hornady ammo priced competitively with the ammo they sell for the gold standard magnum in the space.
No one is surprised about that. I will also stress that 300 PRC is really attractive and SHOULD be considered if purchasing a new magnum specifically for long range precision shooting.
Back to costs though, new 300WM brass is easy to find under $1 since its legacy as heck and going to save at least ~$0.15 there or if you want to shoot cheap factory stuff to fireform a batch you can do that for not much more than ~$1 which is going to save ~$0.80 per. Stepping away from reloading though not many folks asking online "is X chambering right for me?" are looking for a competition only rifle. The vast majority are looking for something dual use and in that case factory hunting and plinking ammo is going to save at least $0.50/round since the floor for 300 PRC are the ~$1.94 Hornady loads online. Buying ammo on they way out to a hunt or to plink ? In rural areas or even just in areas without a public long range attracting target shooters WM is going to be on the shelves, PRC is a gamble and going to be $10-20 more for a box of 20 if you do find it. That sticker shock is real for a lot of guys when you try to sell them on a hot new cartridge. Knowing that they'll have to spend $60 a box instead of $40 for just basic ammo is a huge turn off. It doesn't matter if the $60 ammo is better ballistically, it's still 50% more expensive.

>>62539458
If that's the context then sure. If you're buying brand new right this moment, and you have no existing investment in ammo and aren't doing custom length reloading already (and/or you care about factory options and new spec flexibility too), that's a good time to reevaluate. Same as when a barrel burns through.
>recommending it to someone buying his first rifle or first target rifle doesn't have any merit over any other option
OK sure, but who does that? Who are you replying to? Certainly not prg, which recommends 6.5 (or 308), just using a decent AR15, or 22lr. I mean, that's not a 300wm thing at all, I'd never recommend ANY bigger cartridge for a "first rifle", significantly raises the chance of developing bad habits like a flinch.
>also es of 68 isn't that great?
As I said numbers from a brand new barrel aren't really reliable yet. But for 133cpr I wasn't expecting much and it's nicely made lead free ammo too. I'd never used that brand before either or seen it but turns out to be big in Europe, so honestly had no idea. Just posted it as a point of interest is all since some 300prc was also posted (with bigger spreads than that too).

A lot of my shooting is under 500yd, and of course all hunting massively under. I went with 300wm again for the times I've got a mile, because I could still get a bunch of cheap ammo for lesser range while having nice ammo for longer, know the reloading by heart already, and just for the fun of "bigger boom on a budget". Next time around may be different.

>>62539570
Yeah all this too. And on top:
>Buying ammo on they way out to a hunt or to plink?
As a note on the sort of super bubble I myself am in, didn't even consider that. I haven't contemplated buying ammo in the moment for a very long time, I'm so used already to ordering in bulk online to my door. But yeah not everyone can do that, so local availability is a whole extra consideration.

>>62536418
whats the context here? would not pick any of those normally on a new rifle.

>>62540493
looks like the used rifle rack at most shops if you ignore the sewer pipe surp and ten different oddball WCF chamberings from the 1800s.

>>62540493
>>62540766
I want a long range semi auto rifle that is under $2000. Only one Ive found so far is a Browning BAR; those are the calibers it is offered in.

>>62541183
How long is "long range" for you in the context of target shooting? Does it need to take meat as well, and if so what class of animal and how far out? I suspect a large frame AR is probably the answer as even a cheap one is likely to be as if not more precise than a BAR/FNAR and your indecision on chambering leads me to believe a common short action option would cover your needs.

>>62541183
Yeah, like >>62541345 says, you can go to 1000-1100yd with a quality accurate AR10 just fine. 308 or 6.5 will both take you there. If you want truly submoa though without a significant amount of work yourself it'll still get fairly expensive in semiauto. LMT, JP Enterprises, and KAC are the most common recs I think? All are quite pricey. I just use a bolt.
>>62541345
>FNAR
On paper that should be an ok option, and used ones are available quite cheap. Asterisk when I last checked though was barrel replacement being a humongous hassle and expense, so you have to really care about round count if buying used and are stuck with a given length (and caliber of course).

>>62541610
>FNAR
Buddy had one that shot fine for a non-premium semi. 1-2moaish with factory match. At some point he had to send it in for some sort of factory service that was roundcount based and he sold it after. I forget what the service was for but remember him being miffed about the whole process.

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How can I build an R700 clone to look like the CS5?

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How do I adjust the length of pull on my 17HMR for my little guy?

>>62541995
Yep, that sounds like what I heard too. Actually it's a pretty good low pass filter when evaluating a new gun for me at least. First thing I do is run a search for "abc gun barrel replacement". If it's "do it yourself in 40 seconds the first time you get the gun out of the box" awesome, gold standard. If it's "takes a few minutes at the bench and following simple instructions" eh, totally fine. If it's "kind of a pain, need to follow a tutorial and multiple tools" that's a demerit, but at least can still be done yourself, or you can pay a gunsmith if you can't be bothered but your call. If it's "need to send it back or to a good gunsmith, but if you sent it back it's $500 and they'll customize the barrel to whatever specs you want, great customer service and it's quite quality" getting bad but can maybe live with that for the right gun and an established company.

But if there's any sort of fuckery or "it was a huge pain and they wanted $1000+ and replacement only" or whatever nope. Barrels are consumables too particularly with some of the newer fun rounds. Being able to maintain it yourself, replace as desired even if the company goes to hell, is table stakes imo for a nice rifle. FN has a mediocre reputation for regular people on that one (I assume if you're a government customer or similar size it's different just like other bigger corps).

>>62541610
I definitely want it to have some power at distance. It would be for during TEOTWAWKI for AA.

Shoulda mentioned Im currently in a communist dictatorship (exaggeration) hellhole and AR10s are not allowed. No pistol grips on rifles.

>>62543005
>Shoulda mentioned Im currently in a communist dictatorship (exaggeration) hellhole and AR10s are not allowed. No pistol grips on rifles.
Ouch. So you want:
- 30cal
- sub-moa accurate
- semi-auto
- commieapproved compliant
- cheap
Damn on the venn diagram of those circles the intersection is going to be pretty fucking tiny, afraid I got not magical one for that.

So yeah if you got a rifle that fits and >>62536418 is what you have to go with so be it. I'd say your situation is unique enough you should head over to a ballistic calculator and run the numbers yourself, see what will deliver the energy you want at the ranges you want. A bunch of those could work well depending, bigger isn't always better if one of the others will let you use higher BC bullets. And given your location I assume you have to consider local ammo availability too, so figure out how you plan to feed it. That may be a deciding factor.

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>>62493816
Is a good quality 18x enough for 6.5 PRC

>>62544560
Is this in the context of using what you've got vs replacing, or a new purchase? How much mag you need depends on what range you're going for and under what conditions, not the cartridge (beyond that dictating your reasonable max range of course). IIRC 6.5 PRC is effectively 6.5 CM Magnum, a standardization/commercialization of 6.5-284. Should be able to push it nearly a mile in principle, lots of mountain hunters seemed pretty positive about it. At that kind of range I think 18x would leave you wanting more. On the other hand if you got it more for the flatter shooting and less drift at shorter ranges, like 700-1k, 18x is certainly ok if you've got it (or have a good deal lined up).

However if this is a new purchase either way, then you won't go wrong with more mag particularly for a build with legs like that. You don't really want to be spending all your time in the top 1/4 mag of your scope, where fov shrinks and sometimes transmission, you want that to be just when you need it. I'd go with something in the 20s upper end.

>>62544560
It's not enough for a .22.

>>62544892
22-what? -250, -0, -creedmoor? Because if you can't possibly have meant lr. If you did
>18x not enough for 300yd
might want to schedule a visit to the eye doc anon.

>>62544962
If you're not aiming at the cross inside the circle inside the cross inside the circle inside the cross inside the bullseye, are you even aiming?

Yes, it's a thing. You'd know if you had a proper optic.

>>62538429
I have to check my notes but ive got a 212gr hornady eld-x load zipping along at 2830fps. I had a 1 grain spread in load development with gave me the same velocity, no pressure signs, and same accuracy (1 moa) for both groups. Im thinking it might be 3.6" coal? Ill grab a pic in the morning and post the notes.

Fyi Its a browning x bolt pro..

>>62493816
It's pure masculine instinct to hate bullpups.

>>62543005
M1A/M14 allowable? They may not be as precise or have magnum power, but they have a broad pool of replacement parts and accessories. A scoped battle rifle is still a formidable tool beyond carbine ranges.

>>62545093
>still using a scope and mag
>not using a compact wormhole generator so that a 1000yd target becomes a 1yd target
ngmi

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I know I had asked about this in the last thread but I want to ask one final question. I’ve decided on 4-20mag for my 6.5 SCAR20. Is the night force 4-20 a good option or should I splurge and get the ZCO 4-20? I

>>62546574
There is a TON of super nice glass in that price range (I assume when you say "night force" you are talking about "atacr" since you say zco also, NF has multiple brands at different tiers and it's irritating when people just talk a company vs specific products). Admittedly I've never really understood the hype about ZCO vs a bunch of other top tier offerings, but if you're looking to drop that kind of money on that fancy a gun, I'd really be trying to get behind some glass in person and consider a full range. Like, why 4-20 specifically, but not 4.5-27 or 3-27 or 5-25 or 4-40 or whatever?

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>>62546699
Correct. I’m referring to the ATACR.
4-20 since I don’t need anything much past that. At most I will shoot out to 1k on occasion and inside that for the vast majority of times shooting so I don’t want too much mag. I like my 4-16 but want just a bit more mag on the top end

>>62546772
>so I don’t want too much mag
I guess I've never really considered it possible to have too much upper mag. There can be too little low end, too much weight, not enough fov, too tight dof, too small exit pupil/eye relief, etc, but all that is only semi connected to upper mag. Improving manufacturing has increased the useful multiplier range over the years.

I mean for sure, not like 20 and spending most of your time no higher than 15 would be terrible for those ranges, just if you're spending so much you have options is all. I guess mainly I'll not for the atacr they are known to be pretty stiff on the zoom, I have one as well and it's that way.

>>62546772
I like to pick my mag ranges where it will allow me to stay out of the top end of the erector and not "stress" what the glass can do. Over the years I've learned I personally hover in the 15-18 mag range at 1k so I like scopes with 25xish top end for that. If 1k is a rarity though I could see taking "less" scope.

>>62546167
>Not using a microscope to aim at the 1" target through the portal

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>>62547158
Can you explain that more? Are you saying scopes look better at their intermediate ranges? I also assumed they were best at the outer ranges.

>>62547023
What options would you suggest ?

What are y’all using for “open range” hunting? I’m mostly a brush hunter, so I’ve mostly just used a lever rifle, but I’ve gotten permission to hunt somebody’s corn field. Potential range up to about 500 yards, but being so close to opening day it’ll have to wait til next year to have a rifle ready. I’m pretty sure I wanna go with something in 7mm and hand-load for it, but I’m a bit torn between the rem mag, PRC, or Winchester AI. The PRC and Ackley probably have the best potential for good high BC bullets, the rem mag would probably be cheapest overall, but I could make and fire-form brass for the Ackley cheaper than the PRC by a decent margin. So it’s pretty must Cost vs Work vs Practicality.

What’re your thoughts?

>>62547607
>Can you explain that more?
nta, I'm the other anon and that's what I've been referring to as well. A lot of optics have an optimal transmission range of 0 to 70-80% or so, give or take a bit, with a noticeable drop off above that. The fov also starts getting extremely narrow for everything, and other aspects can also get more finnicky. So general advice is that you should be staying within that range for most of your usage, with ducking into the top 25% being occasional. If you think you'd end up spending most of your time in the top 20-30%, then you definitely want more mag if you're buying new (if you've got something existing that works and don't feel like/can't replace it just then that's different, you can certainly make do with whatever, but for a greenfield purchase should consider it). However, 0-75% would be 4-15x for a 4-20x optic, which for <1000yd is certainly workable. If your heart is set on it and that's what you think would be best your call.
>What options would you suggest ?
Unironically, and not the fun easy answer, but I'd suggest a spreadsheet. Take your ideal mag, whatever you want per 100yd (1.5? 2?), divide by 0.75, then go to eurooptic or wherever with a good search and select everything around that range. Ie, 20x through 30x or whatever. Order by prices, then make notes of models in your budget target, and do a comparison with size, fov and so on. Everything is going to have good glass. Consider the reticles as well. You can then search on sniper's hide or similar sites for ones that seem to match your feature list.

This is all more work but I think for that class of purchase worth it. That said, if you already have an atacr, and you're happy with it and its good parts and quirks, the narrower fov and so on, "same thing but a bit more" is going to be fine and easy.

>>62547694
>winchester AI
I did mean to say Remington. But whatever.

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>>62547789
This is good to know. You guys have been very helpful. I’m a high power optic noob so I never knew that you don’t want to top out your max mag. Looks like it’s time to get autistic with the spreadsheets and really get analytical with this.

>>62547861
>that you don’t want to top out your max mag
I mean, it is there to be used, fine to top out sometimes it's not like it's bad. But the goal is more like
>oh normally I'm at 1000 but this one time I get a chance to go to 1200
or
>man normally 15/18/20x is fine at this range but the lighting conditions are really bad today and lowering the contrast and I need a bit more
or
>can see my impacts just fine normally but in these conditions/that ground I can't
where the top end is your margin for surprises. It's there when you need it, but it's not the sweet spot. And if you need it all the time under normal conditions, what happens when you run into abnormal? Like yeah, realistically it's fine for 99% of us to say "eh, I just pack up and call it a day in that case" or "looked at the weather forecast, saw it'd be overcast, didn't go at all", and I'm not telling you to buy 60x lol. But having some margin doesn't hurt when there's no real downside, not like going from 4-20 to 4.5-27 means tripling the weight or the like.

>>62547861
>>62548049
also don't forget the eternal advice: try to get behind some glass irl. Friends or range buddies with something, or after you do your research see if any LGS carry any of those models. It's worth paying a small local premium for a nice place that'll put a half dozen on a test platform for you and take you outside to go look through them. If that's not possible where you are not the end of the world, but we all have somewhat different eyes. And while optical is the obvious thing for an optic, there are other considerations too, like how the turrets feel and operate. Do they have good clicks you can easily control and count? Stuff like that.

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>>62547607
>>62547158
>>62547789 is bang on. I was going to write a book but the hard work was already done. I'll just add to the new discussion that when you do look at some optics there are still good ones with bad aspects, but those aspects may not matter at all, or they could matter a lot completely depending on how you use the rifle.

Prime example the venerable S&B 5-25 tunneling below 7x (one of the ATACRs tunnels as well but I forget which). On one side of the discussion does the low end really matter on your precision rifle? It may not. Or you could need it to also perform in first/last light, with a clip-on, or some other consideration where the bottom mag being the bottom mag and offering the most FOV and light matters.

>>62548138
I believe it’s the 5-25 ATACR that tunnels a bit on the low end, 5-7ish.

>>62547694
Out to 500 yards they're basically all identical. Pick whichever one you like best. The deer won't care what kills it.

>>62547694
I'm not familiar enough with the newer 7mm class stuff beyond knowing there are some fantastic bullet options. I will say that from friends and what I've read online, 7mm PRC is a serious barrel burner, like serious serious not just "yeah much less then 308" serious. People talking 700-900 rounds, and that was enough to dissuade me. Whereas 7mm RM, like 300wm or 300prc or other bigger but not hyper aggressive rounds is more like in the 1600-2800 range, still much less then normal short action but downright reasonable compared to <1k. Maybe you already factored that into cost but woof.

At 500yd you could use anything from a simple hunting pov (and that's like 2.5x the max range I've ever felt comfortable hunting myself in normal circumstances). Since you're doing this in part for handload fun from the sound of it pick whatever you think will give you the most experimentation enjoyment, just make sure you have factored in all costs/availability I guess.

>>62520423
I've been asking DT if they'll ever sell the skins on their own, but thus far they haven't.
I'd get a set of green skins and have a green+black combo.

>>62548484
It'd be nice if they did a precut, but cheap generic skins are not that expensive, I got a couple a few years ago to play with and it was like $40 for a 24"x50" roll. So can afford to screw up a bit while you experiment, and can play with waxpaper or something to get close before cutting any actual skin. Granted, cutting all the little holes and details is annoying. Hydrodip is cool and professional, and can do any pattern, but pretty pricey particularly if you just want a given flat color. I'm never gonna rattle something that high end.

Thinking about it, with a bit of artistic experimentation you could probably be both lazier and have something that looks cool. Rather than all odg pick some long strips and add in some curves and such so that it looks purposeful to have a mix of green and black, but saving you the trouble of worrying about trickier bits like trigger guard.

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Am I retarded for wanting one of these bad boys over building an AR10? I’m left handed so it would save gas to the face.

>>62549897
Not at all, M1A are great rifles. Very aesthetic too. Military used them as DMRs for a while.

>>62549909
Thanks anon. I want it to be an heirloom too. Great rifle

>>62549897
No way, M1A is pure soul. Though given the thread topic fwiw, a few places like Springfield armory have made variations focused really specifically around consistent accuracy and more typical prs qol things like highly adjustable cheek rests, think they called it the "m1a loaded precision". Though sadly they don't do both that and wood otherwise. Either way though people have done 0.5moa through them no problem.

>>62550207
there's no way you're getting .5moa out of a m1a without doing significant work to it. they are like 2moa guns out of the box at best.

>>62547607
how try hard do you have to be to get fully kitten up to go to the range, but too lazy to put a magazine in your side arm? or be the queer on the side all grey man, but still rocking a helmet

>>62547694
Ammo cost for hunting doesn't matter at all unless you plan on missing. PRC is the best out of those cartridges, pointless to build for a fudd caliber if you aren't going to be buying ammo at walmart.

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>>62497857
I have a CAT ODB 718 on mine and I like it.
Not as big a fan of the Razor 3-18, been thinking about switching to an ATACR or Mk5 5-25, mostly just because the Razor is such a fucking heavy pig.

>>62504860
folsom carbine... snoy please let insomniac remaster or remake resistance...

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>>62551043
Atacr good

>>62551043
That's supposed to be a real nice can, pretty sweet anon.
>>62550695
>there's no way you're getting .5moa out of a m1a without doing significant work to it. they are like 2moa guns out of the box at best.
I was talking about models like these anon:
>https://www.springfield-armory.com/m1a-series-rifles/m1a-loaded-rifles/
Which admittedly I haven't gotten to take for a test drive myself, but guys I trust have said they can do as advertised. Like I said though the precision ones aren't the classic wood look either and modified somewhat, so not quite the same.

>>62550726
kittens are a big responsibility you do have to try somewhat hard

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>>62547694
I run a 6.5prc. 156 berger eol's at saami spec lengrh (2.955" i believe) and theyre zipping along at 2930 fps.
New lapua brass, necks mandreled, fed 210m primers behind 57.2gr? of N565. (Ignore the written part of the pic, i was a grain off)


X bolt pro fyi, im also >>62545450

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>>62552419
Another BC mountain range bump.

>>62498548
You could try a PA 3-18 or 5-25 and not be out that much money if you end up not liking it.

>>62552419
>my best 3 shot group
bruh

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>>62552500
Yeah i know right?

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>>62552500
NTA but sometimes wish I could convince myself a 3-5 shot group meant anything. I'm determined to not even switch to 10 shot groups until I can get my 20 shot groups under 1moa consistently.

Thanks for the fun thread everyone. Hope all you anons either have or get a chance to get your own dream builds. And a great fall for some shooting.

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>>62509999
Don't have issues with anything IPSC sized. The reduced IPSC or otherwise small plates can be tougher to see, but if you have a general idea where they are they are easy enough to pick out. If you like the ATACR, I would use and if you find it's not enough, then go shopping for more mag. To me, 16x is a 1000yd magnification range all day.

The ELR guys reaching out to 1400+ yards are a different story. Would absolutely want 25x or more at that point. I'm in the mid-Atlantic though, I can't count on two hands the number of times in my life I've had the opportunity to spend a day shooting past 1,000 yards. Sometimes I'm glad I'm not out in the open land or up in Montana/Idaho/etc, my bank account would be reeling from the beating I put on it if I could consistently engage in ELR shooting.

fugg, back to hibernation, love prg simple as