>we could've had this kino>instead we got a shitty boing that crashes every other day and became worse over time somehowI don't care how impractical it is just modernize it somehow
>>62495686Dart arrow lookin motherfucker
>>62495695I present to you the HV-33. Some artist just gave it a paint job and external tanks but I went a little further. It would've been fucking rad
>>62495686you know how loud it was?
>>62495686>Reaches well beyond what the tech/construction of the time can realistically handle>Takes far too long and costs too much>Questionably useful even if it somehow managed to exceed the capabilities in the design proposal>Many such cases.It's still a cute plane though OP.
>>62495758>at the timeThat's my point, what's stopping them from making a jet vtol with modern tech?
>>62495790Given that literally nobody has - despite it being a lot easier to handle today - I'd assume that the answer there is in the third point in the post you're responding to there. >Questionably useful even if it somehow managed to exceed the capabilities in the design proposal. Actually, let's add a 'cost effective' into that sentence to, just to cover all the bases.
>>62495807But surely there would be a commercial version? I could see rich people shilling out some shekels for these, just like the concord
>>62495686thank god that wasn't adopted, seems absolutely retardedI just wish West Germany had used the Mirage III (or, even better, a domestic fighter) instead of the F-104
>>62495843
>>62495843>I could see rich people shilling out some shekels for these, just like the concordYou mean the cool thing that got canned because it was too expensive and impractical?
>>62496465
>>62496465Pretty sure it got canned because it was "Unsafe"
>>62496891Pretty sure that they released a statement that could be summarised as "Yeah, there aren't enough people who'd be able to afford and willing to buy tickets it if we charged in line with what it takes us to actually operate these aircraft". You're thinking of the reason they were restricted to entirely transatlantic routes. People didn't want sonic booms rattling their windows at home several times a day, so most countries passed laws forbidding civilian supersonic flight over their land.
>>62496455Why are the seats bakwards?
>>62498836Safety. It's much easier to catch someone under sudden deceleration with the seat back than it is with a lap belt.
>>62495686imagine plane jousting
>>62498867The take of must have been vomit inducing.
>>62495686https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmGklYffaNU
>>62500672Honestly, I get more of this sort of vibe from it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45NtEXv7DZs
>>62498867>sudden deceleration of a supersonic airlinernobody's going to live if that thing crashes, so what's the point?
>>62495686Well said. Now get in.
>>62495865Poor plane, standing around with a stick in its ass.
>>62495686>>62495700what could have been
What is this nazi nonsense
>>62502622
>>62504977A shame this never went anywhere. The US was genuinely interested in it but it kept being delayed for further improvements so they just went with the Death Trappier
>>62504960I was almost thinking the nacelles contained the soldiers.
>>62502622>nazi
>>62502610>Fourteen fucking enginesAre you really questioning why this thing wasn't chosen?
>>62508441Don't forget that ten of those fourteen fucking engines are lift-jets, and just pure dead weight in forwards flight. >Tail-sitter supremacy confirmed.
>>62505484>you VILL get in ze pod
>>62504967From the country that brought you "The Lawn Dart" and "The Widow Maker," prepare yourself for a design even less safe.
>>62509438What could have been.
>>62509850and we only missed it because the flyboys started complaining that they'd have to do a little extra training to land them properly. >pic unrelated, but it is another "This is what they took from us" moment in aviation history.
>>62509850The Convair 200 would have actually worked. That thing was based around a system that didn't actually work in practice. The full-scale demonstrator was only able to get like 70% of the thrust it needed for takeoff.
>>62495686>>62495700It was honestly really cool seeing these things show every now and again up in the last 2 seasons of Man in the High Castle. That show honestly did a fairly good job at doing their homework and thinking about weapons and equipment a *very* victorious Axis might have by 1962.Seeing MP5s/G3s in the hands of Wehrmacht and SS, or Type 64s with the Japs was a neat touch. Even the dogshit last seasons had AKs among the ""rebels"" (read: black commies), and it would've been cool to see some more about the Soviets going down that might've illuminated how they churned that design out.My depressed rant about a show ruined by modern writing is over.
>>62509997There have been so many goddamn failed vtol/stol programs its crazy. The fact that any succeeded is a miracle.
>>62495686>I don't care how impractical it isthis is why you answer emails for a living.
>>62504960>>62504967cool
>>62510037all that research and they didn't figure out that all ten engines were Rolls Royce and the two main onese were Pegasus directly lifted from the Harrier.
>>62495790I think a better candidate to revisit for creating a jet powered VTOL transport with modern tech would be the avrocar. We've gotten a lot better at making jet engines since then, and many of the problems from what I understand were related to being crazy hard to control even for experienced pilots. I think that revisiting the idea of using the Coandă effect to generate lift from a single big jet engine in the middle of an aircraft, but with the benefit of modern computer simulations and fly by wire systems, could lead to some very capable VTOL craft.
>>62495807As I understand it the idea around the time that the do31 was being envisioned was that all of the airfields in west germany would be destroyed pretty quickly during ww3, so they were trying to make literally everything VTOL or STOVL. They were doing stuff like using rockets to launch starfighters from stationary ramps, and have them land on the autobahn with aircraft carrier arrestor wires. In that sort of context I could see something like the do31 being basically their only option for a transport plane.
>>62495758>Oh no comrade, there is a small wave>BLLAAAYYYTTTTTTTTT* dies in a fiery crash.
>>62509963This thing would have been an amazing Troop transport. I wonder if you could eliminate the tiny rocket engines in the large blade by just redirected the exhaust from the 2 engines into a pseudo turbine that spins the prop just to give it enough speed to generate the initial lift it needs to get off the ground.
>>62495790>>62495807>That's my point, what's stopping them from making a jet vtol with modern tech?We have, it's called the F-35, and that was a replacement for the Harrier. Jet VTOL and hovering consumes a tremendous amount of fuel and usually requires tremendous sacrifices in payload, so practically most jet fighters just go for shortened takeoffs and maybe land vertically (after stores/fuel are expended). If you're building a jet aircraft that also means you want a plane that goes fast and probably isn't spending a lot of time doing a slow hover - there are much better configurations for this than the very mechanically complex, heavy, and draggy tiltrotor setup. If the mission demands lift capacity, loitering around in hover, or lower speed bands (which will likely be imposed by the drag of the tiltrotor setup) then you're better off with turboprops. Ducted fans have a similar problem - you gain efficiencies by enshrouding the rotor, but that adds more material and weight, which robs the advantages you gain. If you make the rotor bigger to provide more lift, that also means a bigger duct, which cuts more into the performance improvement, and so forth.
>>62510037didn't they use russian helicopters for the japanese though
>>62495700Fuckin dope son. Looks like a HH-3 or HH-53 on steroids>yfw you'll never ride a HV-31 deep behind Warsaw Pact lines to rescue some downed Phantom Phlyers
VGH...
>>62510059A huge part of it comes down to the broader program they're being developed for getting cancelled. Stuff like the Dornier 31 in OP's pic was part of the broader NBMR-3 program, where it was supposed to support a whole network of VTOL aircraft distributed across a bunch of small bases. The idea was to have a high-subsonic nuclear strike fighter (what became the VFW VAK 191B) a supersonic fighter, and a transport that could supply bases operating these aircraft by air. But politics and changing doctrine ended up killing the whole program:>Frogs get buttblasted that NATO thinks the Hawker design is a better option than a Mirage III with eight lift jets and pull out>"nuke everything" doctrine falls out of favor, VAK 191B isn't capable of carrying a useful conventional payload>improving engines, systems like swing-wings mean tactical aircraft are less dependent on a handful of huge airstrips
>>62515106>I wonder if you could eliminate the tiny rocket engines in the large blade by just redirected the exhaust from the 2 engines into a pseudo turbine that spins the prop just to give it enough speed to generate the initial lift it needs to get off the ground.IIRC they're tiny jets, rather than rockets, and for the rest of that post . . . . probably not, sorry. >>62515197Pretty sure he means a VTOL jet transport, not the F-35.
>>62516225The NBMR-3 requirements led to some of the most awesome and stupid shit. Some other cool things they made were pre fabricated airfield kits that were just assembled on site called SATS (picrel), and the ZELMAL program, which this quote from wikipedia sums up nicely: "The ZELMAL program investigated the possibility of a zero-length landing. The program was conducted 1953 and 1954. It involved a Republic F-84 aircraft and an inflatable rubber mat. The aircraft would perform a zero-length landing by catching an arrester cable with a tailhook, similar to an aircraft carrier landing. The aircraft would then drop onto the rubber mat. A number of unmanned tests were performed before two piloted ZELMAL tests in 1954. In both cases the pilots suffered spinal injuries. The program was not continued after that."
>>62495758>UNKNOWN TECHNOLOGY (BLAYT)
>>62516225>Frogs get buttblasted that NATO thinks the Hawker design is a better option than a Mirage III with eight lift jets and pull outClassic fraunch
>>62509963why hasn't anyone bring back this baby :((
>>62505335lift engines are dumb beyond belief
>>62505335>Death Trappier>Dude this shit box which is a straight up worse harrier would be so much safer it has two extra dead weight engines to suck up fuel and consume maintenance time!
>>62521727>'Real' Answer"AAAAGH! IT TOO LOUD!!!! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILLUNS!!!!!!!">The actual reason whyBecause God hates us and won't let us have nice things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmjWAObqrFA
>>62521918The lift engines weren't as bad as they're made out to be so long as the design properly accounts for the dead weight. The bigger problem was that the VAK191B was hyper-optimized around the VTOL nuclear strike role and wasn't really salvageable for anything else. They looked at enlarging the wings to give space for hardpoints, but payload would always be very limited in size and mass. And while experiments with the early Harrier prototypes was showing that STOVL was the way to go, the VAK191B's wide-set bicycle landing gear and tiny wings meant that it really couldn't practically do a rolling takeoff. Making it a practical platform for conventional strike would have required so much of a reworking it wouldn't have been worth it.
>>62521971>proceeds to literally buy Yakolev's Yak 141's technical data afterwards
>>62523467yes, it's important to know how NOT to do thingshard-earned lessons, etc.
>>62495686wowzers
