The proposed M1299 Howitzer was canceled this year and most countries have ditched the M109 for things like the K9 or PzH2000. What will it be replaced with in US service?
>>62495902why did they cancel the long nigga wtf
>>62495902The US is in the very cozy position to have more than enough air power so they can take their sweet time to find out which kind of howitzer fits best. Sure, the 109 is dated but then again the US got so much "flying artillery" that they could easily fight without newer arty systems. Pretty sure they're also taking a very good look at all the electronic warfare changes brought by the ukraine war. As far as I know fastest possible shoot 'n scoot is king now b/c counter-battery-fire became ultra quick. So they might wanna see where this goes before they decide on a new arty system.
>>62495929Just buy Caesar
>>62495917because buying over priced ammunition brings more money
>>62495917Barrel life issues. Couldn't figure out how to make them last a satisfactory time.
>>62495902I designed a replacement butt this gay site wont let me post pics. :(
>>62495917Probably because the ukraine war and its trends in artillery / counter artillery warfare showed that contemporary and future high intensity conflicts need a different approach than what the 1299 would have provided. Just my sorta educated guess.The ukraine war is very important to show the whole world what a 21st century high intensity conflict looks like. Keep in mind that we only saw low intensity stuff during the last 30 years. Balcans, Afghanistan, Iraq were far from being near peer conflicts. So it might be a good idea to seek lessons from a modern PvP war. >inb4 Russia ain't no near-peer
>>62495902Probably something a lot like the M1299, just less ambitious. Like with an L/52 barrel, instead of the L/58 it had.
>>62495956It had nothing to do with the capabilities it offered (Ukraine vindicated the need) it was all engineering challenges with barrel life.https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a60232049/army-long-range-howitzer/https://www.defensenews.com/land/2024/03/11/us-army-scraps-extended-range-cannon-artillery-prototype-effort/
>>62495902>What will it be replaced with in US service?Nothing. The army will cancel anything that gets past milestone B.
>>62496032I still never understand it, the army spends literal billions on a project thats almost complete then just cancels it.
>>62495902useless without shells
>>62495917they didn't, OP is lying
>>62495902apparently KNDS and Rheinmetall want to market the artillery gun module to the US army. The Swiss have evaluated it mounted on a General Dynamics platform (competing against the regular RCH 155 on Boxer and against Archer) and will decide on the procurement in a while
>>62496325?https://www.defensenews.com/land/2024/03/11/us-army-scraps-extended-range-cannon-artillery-prototype-effort/
>>62495970Never understood why they overshot with the L/58, when they could've gone for an L/52, which we know works, because everybody else is using it. Besides, the L/58 wasn't even some sort of revolutionary paradigm. It was gun, but long. Instead of trying to jump rungs, they would've been better served by adopting a regular L/52 as an interim solution, then grabbing Bull's scratchpad sketches and developing those (as a longer-term overmatch solution).
>>62495902Nothing, they've cancelled 109 upgrades/replacements like 5 times alreadyAlways aiming for the uber mega solution rather than going with iterative upgrades
>>62495917It got smashed by one train thats why
>>62501894I mean the m109s are extremely old, seems like a replacement is needed
>>62504007They're not quite as old as they seem. It's a Ship of Theseus situation. Both the turrets and the chassis have been completely swapped out for new tech. They've been incremetnalyl upgraded longer than the Abrams has. I think the army got just tired of incremental improvements: they know the meta is changing with drones, and tried to keep the old stuff relevant by super-upgrading it instead of just modernizing it, keeping it, and buying something separate for the drone meta.
>>62496096Keeps engineers busy I guess.
>>62495917Setting aside the bureaucratic, financial, political, or engineering reasons and focusing on the military perspective; 155mm is the meta for groups of guns accurately firing salvos to medium ranges against small to mid size area targets. If you're optimizing for range, and you have precision ammunition, and the enemy doesn't group up the way they used to, then 155mm ain't it. Rockets are the new meta.
>>62501910I am demoralized.
>>62504028M109A7 isn't that old either. It was fielded in 2015.
>>62496409Would be cool, can't wait to see them in action in ukraine.
>>62504211it's still just a L/39 gun with limited range though
>>62499714okay well the US isn't ditching the M109RIP long nigga though
>>62495987>>62495929Americans fail to make new SPG. 3 Rd time in the row.Crusader FCS NLOS-CM1299Should've just buy Panzerhaubitze
>>62495956>Probably because >Just my sorta educated guess.Please stop doing this. The correct answer, backed up by actual US army statements, is only a few posts away from yours. While your post is far from the worst, /k/ in general has a massive cancer of wannabe nerd types coming up with plausible suppositions every time someone asks a technical question, and just running with their suppositions as fact. Often, other anons will internalize the pseudo-answer and then repeat it in other threads, making a kind of 4chan canon that was all ultimately based on some kid's shitty guesspost.
>>62505589The way US procurement sometimes goes full "neurons fried DURR" retardation is infuriating. It happened several times, and it went something like this: >notice we're lagging behind in some random area; >ridiculously overshoot the current meta with requirements, with no conservative plan B; >current tech level is not up to par for proper implementation, project eventually gets shitcanned. Just as bad is the case when a promising tech gets snuffed because it doesn't fit US doctrine. Like, who the fuck cares if *you* can't use it, there's always a nigra who can make it work with their different military doctrine. What, no, I'm not salty about the ADATS and MMEV.
>>62505573M109 with Polish barrel?
>>62505659Shut the fuck up faggot.
>>62495902US should just adopt the K9 at this point
>>62505659Hey anon I'm drunk and wanna know why they aren't using anything but 155 I know logistics and what not not but maybe the answers a different projectile instead? Go nuts and go 175 or whatever the Koksan and the 107 is.
>>62506869Best balance between size, range and boom. The frogs were on to something when they originally designed the GPF.
>>62506574Rheinmetall L/52 barrel from the PzH 2000 and RCH 155.
>>62508044Thank you anon.
>>62495943Then how about using an actual howitzer barrel instead of slapping them with M777 barrel?Gerard Bull design is THE industry standard used everywhere from Canada and Germany to China
>>62508260Because the tards at Watervliet still sneed and cope about that time he made giganigga superguns for Saddam.
>>62506239Why would you adopt a new system if it didn't fulfill a doctrinal need you stupid piece of--->ADATSOk, fair.
>>62495902Just go with the Archer. USMC already trialed it and loved the hell out of it
>>62506239then when they actually do buy something it's hilariously risk averse and low capability like the MPF or NGSW-R.
>>62495956slavshithole warfare has nothing to do with civilised country warfare
>>62508908The CCP ain't civilized, thoughever.
>>62508044>Best balance between size, range and boom.>The frogs were on to something when they originally designed the GPF.No it is primarily because of NATO standardization and refusal to invest in new infrastructure for making larger shells.
>>62495902K9 thunder because it does what a modern army needs and the production lines are operational at full capacity.Since money is not an issue, the Pzh. 2000 would be the better choice, but I don't know how fast they could make new ones.
>>62509903even if the US army adopts a foreign system they will heavily modify it and produce it locally, they won't just buy K9 or PzH 2k
>>62509903>Pzh. 2000Old gun on an old platform. AGM is modern and can be mounted on anything, including american-built platforms.
>>62509979PzH 2k and AGM use the exact same gun, which is still among the best, if not the best, on the market.
>>62509991Same barrel maybe. AGM has fully automatic reloads, PZH2K is only partially automatic.
>>62495917BAE needed more time and money to build a barrel with the lifespan that US wanted. It wasn't worth it. Might as well just get new missiles.
>>62509977M109 is made by BAE. It is a foreign system.
>>62506869155 is the physical meta for the goal (area fires between 15km-40km) and it's also the biggest shell a man can reasonably move (100lb). In the early Vietnam War the US Army almost considered making 8" (203mm) guns the standard (they'd have about 200lb shells btw, but only about 30lb HE in one) but the barrel wear problems in their 8" tubes convinced them to drop it.
>>62510700you don't know what you're talking about. M109 was designed and made in the US, BAE is an international corporation that bought up US defense companies and has a huge US foothold too. Just because the company hq of the holding is now registered in London doesn't make the M109 any less American.
>>62495917Because all the good graft for Generals is in development, not deployment.
>>62495902I don't think tube is going to be much more than very specialized deployment in future. Something like NLOS fires with disgustingly minmaxed transportation flexibility pic related the modern version of those crates.
>>62515069Artillery rockets lose in terms of cost/explosion to shells in the <50 km zone.
