Post what you think we have learned from the war so far in terms of weapons and vehicles.I’ll start:>Paratroopers are obsolete>Helicopters are obsolete>Expensive tanks are obsolete better to just spam them cheap for trench rush>APCs and IFVs are still super useful >Non 5’th gen aircraft are obsolete >Artillery and MLRS are kings of the battlefield alongside drones>Mines are also kings >Anti Air is a must but also has to become cheaper and more sustainable to deal with missile and drone spam
I really hope that this is a bait thread because 80% of the points are fucking retarded.
>>62497841I've learned that there are a lot of schizophrenics who do nothing but posting on the internet 24/7 also.
>>62497806>lack of air dominance loses wars even if the country is supposedly overwhelmingly more powerful>artillery reigns supreme>drone warfare is part of the future armies, can expect short range drone operators to be embedded into squads or platoons, for both recon and blowing up entrenched enemies>demining tech needs to be advanced further >Soviet stocks are trash>numerical advantages are less potent in 21st Century wars, China will likely suck dicks on the frontline>lighter vehicles in larger numbers trump tanks in larger numbers>tanks will be relegated to infantry support roles in order to facilitate breaches
>>62497851Yeah seems to be overwhelming the group I said. The insane shit they post is so far from normal human behavior even when they are trying to be normal they still come off a sociopathic psychotic insanely boring midwits.
>>62497856China agrees that numerical superiority is less and less useful and has been laying off literal hundreds of thousands of people over the past few decades.
>>62497868Yep. I think the public imageboard will die not due to AI spam or spambots in general, but due to a small number of mentally ill individuals who can't help but shit up any place they can easily ban evade on.
>>62497806PALLETS, MOTHERFUCKER. DO YOU USE THEM?
>>62497806Carry more ammo. That interview with the bearded Ukrainian saying that 120rds. is not even enough to retreat was very sobering.Early GWOT vets all carried a huge amount of mags, Korean war vets all said you needed more ammo, Vietnam vets said the same, and then the tactifags came along with their low profile carriers and minimalist load outs of 4 mags, all bullshit fantasy larp that will get you killed in real life.300rds should be a standard combat loadout.
>>62497879To be fair 300 rounds is enough when you have an Apache circling you. Meanwhile airborne on D-Day were weighing themselves down with spare clips to the point a some of them drowned when they landed in small puddles.
>>62497891>Apache circling youWe can all see how helis are faring in Ukraine. This will not be a thing for much longer. They will likely remain for quick in and out operations, but not for fire support.
>>62497921I mean hellfires work just fine, standard army doctrine for helicopters assumes that you won't have complete air superiority.
>>62497932I mean, sure, but the amount of antiair seems to be absurd, helis so far have been used against slant eyes and towelheads, but this has to be the first war where seemingly every god damn bush can fire iglas and strelas.
>>62497952Yeah, that's why Apaches are trained to sit behind cover and lob radar guided hellfires at moving targets, with laser guided ones used for non-radar-reflective targets as appropriate. Can't shoot down something behind a treeline 1,400 meters away with an SA-14.But yeah they're not gonna be doing circling around troops so Navy SEALs on the ground can get material for their books, not at all I agree with you on that anon. Just pointing out that they're 100% usable in a contested environment as long as the other side doesn't have air dominance.
>>62497891>To be fair 300 rounds is enough when you have an Apache circling you.It is not, and assuming you have air support immediately on hand is pure Hollywood fantasy.See: Battles of Takur Ghar, Wanat, Kamdesh, Red Wings, Tongo Tongo, etc. >Meanwhile airborne on D-Day were weighing themselves down with spare clips to the point a some of them drowned when they landed in small puddles.Being strapped to 90+lbs of equipment and being tangled in a parachute caused them to drown.A handful more (or less) of en bloc clips would make absolutely no difference in this situation, you would drown regardless.
>>62497987>Being strapped to 90+lbs of equipment and being tangled in a parachute caused them to drown.I was under the impression that most of them drowned because the packs under them got stuck, they got tangled in the lines and drowned, yes. Just pointing out that they were loading the fuck up for isolated operations. It's not contested that they were filling themselves far beyond TOE with ammo, grenades, etc.
>>62497967Fpv drones fuck up helis hiding near trees approach we saw that in kursk
>>62497996If I point out that helicopters can mount jammers so powerful it'd fry your brain from 700 meters away, are you going to fly into home-on-jam cope?
>Any country that operates on a face culture is going to be wildly incompetent>Any country where corruption has run rampant for decades is going to be wildly incompetent >Any country that constantly beats its chest about how tough they are is going to be wildly incompetent>Any country that has annual military parades to demonstrate its "power" with elaborate rehearsals and ridiculous routines is going to be wildly incompetentThat's what I learned.
>>62497806> You need good logistics> Combined arms triumphs> Good comms are extremely important> Same with constant battlefield surveillance
>>62497806everybody saying [russian thing] is better than [american thing] is 100% proved a retarded fag
you need to learn to not over learn lessons.
>>62497921>We can all see how helis are faring in Ukraine.Ukraine v. Russia is not a modern war, it's more like Iran v. Iraq, a war with some recent systems. No one has air dominance because both air forces are shit.
>>62497806You can't assume all wars will be like this because one is. This is exactly how the French failed hard at WW2.>>62497841Also the fact that Westerners are incapable learning that turdies will consistently be unreasonable.
>>62497806That indians are the most annoying and disgusting group of ""people"" on this planet. They're simultaneously retarded and up their own ass about everything. Fuck the ziggers at this point, total brownoid death is what this planet needs.
>>62497806Trench warfare never really went anywhere, it's just that after WWII the enemies of developed nations most often preferred guerrilla warfare.
>>62497806We cant learn any lessons about fighting robotic changs from a conflict between 2 factions of slightly different soulless slavic husks
>>62497806bombing hospitals is okay, raping prisoners is okay, making propaganda torture porn is okay.the geneva convention needs to be chugged out and remade.
>>62497806If you aren't competent at maneuver war you will be condemned to trench war. Sucks to suck.
>>62499562I did like the tunneling tactic by the Russians, its just like Vietnam.
>>62497879This lesson was learned by the SOG guys over the fence where if you got into some shit, you did not have combined arms, and nobody was coming to help you, so if you were going to live you need to shoot your way out. Those guys carried like 14 mags.Tanks aren't necessarily obsolete but they require a complete redesign with drones in mind
>>62499606they need to develop light weaponry with electricity locking bullets that can target drones or something, guided missiles but small.
>>62497879>Vietnam vets said the same, and then the tactifags came along with their low profile carriers and minimalist load outs of 4 mags, all bullshit fantasy larp that will get you killed in real life.>300rds should be a standard combat loadout.Different gear for different situations. Plus, these guys aren't carrying F/A weapons. Thats where the ammo gets expended. >good surveillance>comms>mobility>concealabilityis what I aim for personally. I assume I'm going to be outnumbered in any scenario. Being weighed down with ammo I won't live long enough to use seems like a detriment. Theres a good chance I won't be wearing plates either.
>>62497806In never again complaining about being a third worlder, because at least I’m not a retard from India, china, or any other pro Russian shithole
>>62497806Weapon stocks will not last as long as they're supposed to; domestic arms production is necessary
>>62497879Wars go through phases. Post-surge GWOT, 6 mags was all you needed, and you're seeing similar circumstances in Ukraine now; units are carrying significantly less mags than they were a year ago. Its not uncommon to see 3 mags on carrier and 2-4 on belt, while in mid-2023 everybody was desperately loading up every available space on their gear with mag pouches. Whether this is due to Ukrainians getting more experience with combined arms, meaning they can rely more on vehicles and artillery for fire support; or the war is genuinely at a lower intensity now, its hard to say but the change is evident.
>>62497879You vill get your sigger meme rifle and you vill like it.
>>62497841Kek
>>62497806i learnt war is buttfuckin gay
>>62497806modern warfare is gay. not even a russian deserves to die alone in a fox hole with 24/7 threat of bleeding out from being just a bit too far from a grenade
>>62497806>Western / American weapons critically need a revision. Defending against $2,000 drones with $2 million missiles has to be the biggest military fiasco of the 21st century>shell production rate is most important. Lack if any other weapon can be mitigated with asymmetric tactics>western uptightness about selling only downgraded stuff to other clients will cause their industry to collapse >having a balance between cheap “spam” weapons and sophisticated expensive precision weapons is better than having an all modern equipment army
>>62500410Can't tell if this is a thirdie concern troll post or someone who genuinely fell for thirdie concern troll posting.
>>62497879desu anon I would have thought as much just from running antistasi shit in arma 3, despite the little relevance vidya has.
>>62497806Bruh none of those things are borne out by this war. Are you fucking stupid?
None of that is obsolete. However: paratroopers, helicopters, tanks, infantry are only as useful as th battle plan made for them by their commanders. If the commanders forget about quadcopter grenades, manpads, modern military airpower, and patriot missile batteries then they're gonna have a bad time.Paratroopers especially work well in a lot of cases for Ukraine but you don't hear about it because it's all undercover, secret covert operations helping regular people and not actual war fighting. This is the part the CIA helps a lot with, because the CIA is good at it. You know what the CIA doesn't do? Dump 3,000 men into an airport, let them be surrounded and die uselessly.
>>62497806>Non 5’th gen aircraft are obsoleteBullshit, those monke tantrums on Kyiv and Kharkiv would have had 10 times more casualties without AF doing air defense.
That small nations can prevail over imperial powers given the means and will to defend themselves. Also that getting and maintaining the means is a pain in the ass.
>>62497806>Paratroopers are obsolete>Helicopters are obsoleteonly if you don't have an air force.
>>62497879>>62501515shit in arma 3 I do not carry less than 14 mags. I also shoot alot, but its better to shoot a bush than not shoot an enemy
>>62497806>Helicopters are obsoleteAttack helicopters are obsolete. Very fast light weight helicopters could still be optimized to drop troops off and outrun slower drones.
>>62501705only felt like I needed that much when it was 5.56 and I was getting into extreme 600m distance engagements and relying on tracers to see how the wind was throwing my shots off.better than facing an entire NATO platoon within 300m though.
>>62498202>turdies will consistently be unreasonableIt's more that they're so stupid that they can't imagine how stupid they look to anyone with a 3-digit IQ. The power of their stupid is so intense that it gives them Dunning-Kruger levels of egotistical confidence in their subhuman stupidity.
>>62497806>we have learned from the war somonke will never have banan
>>62497806>You're safe from neighbours if you have atomic arsenal
>>62497806>Post what you think we have learned from the war so far"Appeasement doesn't work"Can't fucking wait to learn this lesson again in another 80 years or so
>>62497806There is currently a huge gap in anti drone capability. I hope every western DOD are scrambling on this subject because china can produce a ton more than us and I can already see hundreds of autonomous deathbot ruining an assault or a defensive position in a blink.My instinct tell me something like a land ciws at company or platoon level but smarter people will probably come with a better solution.
>>62497806>Gayrapean GDP is fake>Guns are useless without shells
>>62497806>relying on the US is unreliable
>>62497806aluminum hull = death
>>62497806>Paratroopers are obsoletenot until we develop a better way to insert troops into an area as quicklyair assault troops are maybe the closest in use-case, but they are more to give ground troops more tactical mobility and lack the same weight of a real airborne unit>Helicopters are obsoletenot until we have a new way to get aircraft to hover>Expensive tanks are obsolete better to just spam them cheap for trench rushthe biggest territorial gains of the war were done by mech unitsand mech units are still tasked with the hardest fighting on both sides of the war>Mines are also kingsthey are useful in their niche of denying mobility over specific terrain, but they arent even close in utility to anything that can move
>>62497841>Indians, bengladeshi, paki and Malaysians are subhumaninclude all the eduardos from south america knowing "OTAN" will collapse hard this month
>>62502636>picthe original "nothing ever happens"?
>>62497806The future is drones, and it is gay as FUCK
>>62497806Your "lessons" are retarded, as others have pointed out. The only true lesson to be learned is what we've already known for decades: air superiority and combined warfare is the name of the game and if you can't manage that you're in for a bad time
>>62497806>1/ Wrong>2/ True>3/ Wrong>4/ True>5/ Wrong >6/ True>7/ True>8/ TrueVerification not required
>>62497806cope cages work
>small drone spam is a band-aid fix for nations that don't have functional long range kill chains and competent EW, and don't have an enemy that will actually hunt and kill your drone operators with radiation seeking missiles in any real number>light infantry should be almost entirely replaced with mechanized infantry>ballistic coverage matters infinitely more than slick, light gear
>>62497806>The Shilka/Gepard concept was meta all along>The Brigade is outdated. It's the worst of both worlds when you lack division-scale integrated logistics and diversity of units but still have too many men to put in the field all at once lest they get murked by massed arty>MGs and anti-tank weapons need to be deployed at the squad level>NODs and thermal optics are a must if you want to leave your emplacements at night (to be fair this was already kinda obvious to anyone in the west)>Sustainment matters less and ammo/medical matter alot more when it comes to carried kit. If your men are being forced to pitch tents and unroll sleeping bags while on the march you've already overextended yourself.>Improvised weaponry should under no circumstances be underestimated
>>62502636I can't believe Poland was the aggressor in WW2.
>>62505055Poland and Czechoslovakia had ourselves a little kerfuffle following WWI, where the freshly-returned Czechoslovak Legionnaires went out for blood in the disputed territories near Cieszyn.The Poles (outnumbered, outskilled and outgunned) were getting their shit pushed in pretty bad, so bad that the Entente had to step in and tell Masaryk to call his bloodhounds off.He did, but it still resulted in territorial gains for the newborn Czechoslovakia.When the Czechoslovaks got backstabbed by France and the UK in 1938 and carved up, the Poles smelled blood in the water and took the disputed land back... for about a year.>captcha 88RAW
>>62497806Nothing because they're fighting like it's the 80's-90's but with drones from the 2000's
>>62497806every single lesson you've learned applies exclusively to poor countries without EW, PGMs, LO aircraft, and no dedicated SEAD/DEAD mission. you might as well replace the entire list with "don't be poor."
>>Anti Air is a must but also has to become cheaper and more sustainable to deal with missile and drone spamI think the problem is software. The "foe" in IFF should be able to be a little more granular in determining what in their area is worth shooting at, what targets are priorities, etc. There's a lot of these air defense systems that just go OH SHIT OH FUCK STUFF IN THE AIR NOT OURS and then it gets all worked up an cums all of its buckets worth of AA at everything that moves.
>>62505026EW doesn't work if drones are autonomous
>you can do all kinds of bad stuff, fail, and then get away with it just by threatening to nook
>>62497806drones are replacing everything
>>62505949I don't think any country that currently plays the 500 dollar drone game is anywhere even remotely close to autonomous drone fleets
>>62497806Drones are the future
That tactics haven't changed since WW1 if you don't have effective airpower
>>62508257Right now, no.Give it a decade, and we'll start to see a lot of optionally man-in-the-loop stuff, at which point EW is much less useful (not useless, but limited on its own).
Drones are really important. Many of my acquaintances were injured because there were not enough drones for reconnaissance troops.
>>62497806AI drones are the future of warfare, once they're able to operate indenpendetly without a direct operator input while also being immune to jamming, we might start seeing wars that are fought entirely by robots
>>62498003>home-on-jamNTA, but why wouldn't that work? It's the same idea behind anti-radiation missiles
>>62500454He may have mostly retarded takes, but one of them is actually correct>Defending against $2,000 drones with $2 million missiles has to be the biggest military fiasco of the 21st centuryThis is not really an issue when blasting dune coons in the middle east, but it becomes pretty relevant in LSCO, as it becomes pretty unsustainable to down drones with AA missiles. I'd wager we'll see a return of SPAAGs like a Gepard III or, hopefully, the OTOMATIC 2: Electric Boogaloo.
>>62497831name 5
>>62502662>My instinct tell me something like a land ciws at company or platoon level but smarter people will probably come with a better solutionSkynex and similar systems?
>>62500454Not everyone posting here is from US or the West, even some european nations may have a hard time without it, consider the Falklands war, argentinians weren't particularly bright by any standard yet they still gave UK a run for their money, France was ousted from Niger just by Monke paying nogs some propaganda and gibs, and considering the amount of isolationist faggots and leftoid subhumans within your government there is no warrant the rest of the West and assorted friends would still count on US support in the coming decades.
>>62501716It really depends on the situation, alligators, crocodiles and mice were a major factor for grinding down ukie counteroffensive when combined with minefields and arty, and provided you keep doing hit-and-run attacks comboed with marauder drones your enemy will have a hard time bringing enough AA to take them down.
>>62509054meh you don't need chat gpt 584556 to run a drone network. The tech and algorithms have been researched for decades and nothing came out of it.
>>62511509Question, how possible is for a tank to have a EMP generator? So whenever the radar detect there is some UFO within say, 20 meters of distance it automatically shutsdown any of the tank electronics and fires an EMP, then a mechanical system reboots all the systems 2 seconds later starting with the EMPT system.
reeeeeeee stop calling a few shitty C lines and simple algorithms ai
>>62497806>Paratroopers obsoleteMaybe out of generic cargo planes, I'd agree 100%. But we might get people being loaded into low troop number glide vehicles still like in ww2, so not entirely gone.Helicopters are viable just not how Russia uses them.Expensive tanks only exist because the west likes to push the technological envelope and the unit price civers the RND, not particularly because they are inherantly more expensive to mass produce than cheap ones in bulk.>Non 5th gen aircraft obsoleteWe have seen fucking monoprop world war yaks shooting down drones, and shitty bomb carriers lobbing missiles and glide bombs, what do you mean obsolete.Artillery has always been nasty, aircraft are nastier.Mines are expensive, Russo-Ukraine war is pretty much 70 years of production.Antiair has been a must for 100 years. Cheap anti air too.
>>62512006that sounds like a bad idea because 1) the same reason the kikes don't use APS in Gaza: birds and 2) if you're facing a drone or missile that has home-on-jamming capabilities your fancy EMP system would if anything only assist the drone
Killing leaders is more important than battles of annihilation or destroying infra. If the ukies would have just killed the oligarchs and their families the Russians would have sued for peace. Israel is showing how effective eliminating leaders is.
>>62497806>noguns yuros are really fucking annoying and their demented brains cannot handle political discourse that isn't on their level of mental retardation about whatever they believe>tons of hard ass epic truther patriots are actually more easily subvertable and easily brainwashable than they think>/k/ should cram any current war into a general thread otherwise the board is forfeit>yurop should be range banned since they don't own guns anyways
>>62497806I think the information warfare stuff is fascinating.The US is acting like it's Vietnam and we need to pullout. Not a single American soldier has died. I thought the reason we got out of Vietnam and Iraq was the deaths?Then Russia takes countless deaths and the Russian people just... roll with it.Then we find out Russia is just straight up paying minor American media personalities millions of dollars. Who knows what they're paying the bigger ones. And who knows what they were paying them in Vietnam.So yea, casualties don't matter for morale at least on the larger scale. Information warfare is key and most people are sheep. Or maybe not even most people, it's just that it feels like most people and that's half the point
>>62500410these are all fair points but sadly it's in a war tourist thread so you will just get hated on by legitimate schizos
