>>62507558
You know you can just vefriend the cop and ask them to let you use their Gun?

>>62507558
>trusting politicians
>trusting women

Whatever the law looks like today or tomorrow is irrelevant when there are no legal safeguards in place to stop the next cabinet from arbitrarily re-imposing whatever rules they wish. You can't not be cucked when your executive branch can make you a law-abiding felon effectively by decree (cough cough Canada).

>>62507571
The new government is abusing the same powers the previous government did to change laws under urgency and without months of consultation from gun control groups. This has the police union seething and putting out a bunch of articles as usual.

>>62507558
When that manlet was in the news I was looking at their gun laws and they were surprisingly liberal, I think the Leafs still have them beat despite the current government though, they're even arguably less cucked than we are with stuff like Chinese shit

>>62507587
Our gun laws were looser than Canada but thats because they were horribly written and a gimped stock changed it from a "military weapon" to a hunting rifle

>>62507587
People always forget that the best part about american gun laws isn't the toys you can own, it's the nigh-ubiquitous recognizance of the concept of self-defense, justifiable homicide and ease of use/carry.

People from the UK or australand or the eurozone always go
>See we aren't cucked! We can own [insert thing here]

but you can't USE it

>>62507623
NZ has had some pretty interesting self defence cases lately.
>tldr; Drug dealer with illegal AR shoots 3 Drug dealers attempting a home invasion on his house, got away by saying he was scared for his wife/kids
>https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122993878/no-cowboys-warning-after-selfdefence-verdict-on-kwhia-shooting

>>62507623
Mostly agreed, except
>it's the nigh-ubiquitous recognizance of the concept of self-defense, justifiable homicide and ease of use/carry.
There are plenty of states as well as a ton of counties, not just CA/NY, where this is absolutely not true.
Plenty of DAs will go out of their way to crucify gun owners just because they can and juries made up of absolutely retarded liberals are more common than not.

>>62507558
You can already get ARs on collectors and pest licenses, that basically never changed. Personally I don't think this will pass, but it would be cool if it did.
>If this actually happens would that make them the least cucked anglosphere nation gun wise behind the US?
No. Canada can have certain guns in a completely stock format, while pre-2018 a-cats could have basically any rifle as long as it could be fitted with a thumbhole stock. Its apples and oranges but I think canadas setup is more free. Pistols are also among the most regulated guns in NZ, while even after their big ban people who already own pistols in canada can keep them.

>>62507623
Yeah, no argument here. Theres an apocryphal tale of a gunstore that was being robbed in Auckland in the 2000s, so the owner takes a gun off the rack and uses it to scare off the burglars; then got done for attempted murder. The idea being if you have time to get a gun from a safe and the ammo/bolt in a separate safe, you have time to call the police and hide; and also the act of retrieving the gun is both premeditation and willful escalation. Naive bullshit then, especially naive now with our current crimewave.

>>62507761
That's just scaremongering

>>62507761
these kinds of hot takes from cuddled and hostile prosecutors always amuse me. If the entire system, including the judges, are so hostile to weapon owners using them to self defense then why not get it over with and wipe out all legal weapons. most of these bleeding hearts are multi gen urbanites anyway who are absolutely clueless about wildlife or hunting in the county to protect livestock/property/your life etc

>>62507623
you can use them probably more so than in US even, but the big difference and barrier in rights is that self defense is not valid reason to acquire a gun for 99,999% of people t. non brit, non czech euro

>>62507623
> it's the nigh-ubiquitous recognizance of the concept of self-defense, justifiable homicide and ease of use/carry.
>nigh-ubiquitous recognizance of the concept of self-defense
Most nations populated by humans have this anon.
They might not have a "see, it's written in this book here I specifically can kill this person under this circumstance", but a true self-defense case with no control of the situation will almost always get passed off as understandable (discounting the chances of fucking up on testimony, a cop being absolutely sure it's you, or some murphy's law shit). It's where control is gained, before the aggressor is dead, where eyebrows get raised.
The difference is in the UK or Auz/NZ you need to store guns safely in a home, you can't just leave them lying around for kids to pick up, pose with, and then shoot each other with (we've all seen the webm's), so you don't really get SD homicide with guns.
>Carry.
I don't remember the precise rules, but open carry in an urban environment has always been cringe, and 90% of cops will let you off if you've got a good reason why you've got guns on you/in the truck.
>>62507761
>>62508524
This is a "prosecutors grasp at straws" situation.
Criminal lawyers are trained to be removed from moral implications of their actions, and to find any method by which their client might be perceived as in the right, or unjustly treated.
>>62507567
No, they're station firearms, and the amount of time available to ask is basically when they're in uniform, and have decided to actually wear one.

>>62507571
Thats why the are trying to loosen the registry and other shenanigans. Another counterpoint is its much easier for progun groups to repeal restrictions much faster than the states ever could.

Like if the current administration was sneaky enough they could probably make full autos available to collectors instead of just whatever the restricted category is. Or just hand out more 'pest control' or restrictive permits out.

>>62507623
Speaking as a bong, we do have self defence and justified homicide in this country, it may just be how it interacts with getting your gun. A few years ago, a pensioner stabbed a burglar to death with the burglar’s screwdriver, and he never faced any charges for it. There’s Tony Martin, but as I understand it, he shot one of the guys in the back as they were fleeing his property, and then went to the pub rather than phone the cops

>>62507716
Example?

>>62507623
No, you got that wrong, most euro countries have the Napoleonic code as a base and it explicitly allows the use of lethal force especially against home intrusions at night.

The big difference is that Americans can go hike in the vast wilderness and bring their guns along, carry them openly and just shoot for fun and hunt freely. We Europeans just don't have the open space / culture for that.

>>62507716
>Plenty of DAs will go out of their way to crucify gun owners just because they can and juries made up of absolutely retarded liberals are more common than not.

Exception not the rule

Lol, they ain't giving you your freedoms back m8

>>62507558
Australians can have AR's for pest-control, primary producer licences

>>62507558
You know they can just stage another massacre like they always do.

>>62509588
europeans also have many more natural reserves as we try to rebuild what we destroyed millennia ago, and hunting permits are harder to get and laws more restrictive. america has still plenty to plunder before they'll do the same

>>62509436
>They might not have a "see, it's written in this book here I specifically can kill this person under this circumstance"
>but a true self-defense case
That's literally the point he was making. You don't have any guarantees. Your country's definition of what constitutes self-defense and permits it is not constitutionally enshrined or defined, and will change every time based on the prosecutor's whim in that case.
That's bad.
>The difference is in the UK or Auz/NZ you need to store guns safely in a home
The types of security containers these countries mandate are barely more secure than a locked pantry door.
It is nothing more than an additional hurdle and financial burden to dissuade people from owning firearms, which is the real point of these policies.
>>62509573
Harold Fish
>Carry 10mm pistol
>Shoot homeless man charging you
>Jury convicts you because they convince people 10mm is only used by evil men intending to kill

>>62509626
name one (1) massacre that was proven to be staged by a government in order to legitimize gun laws. preferably without your usual tinfoil ramblings

>>62509639
It certainly happens in America so why not New Zealand

>>62509639
Not a massacre but weve had high profile assassination attempts on governors that were 100% glownigger honeypots

>>62507716
This is a very popular meme that nobody ever provides any fucking examples of or numbers for.

>>62509642
>it certainly happens!!!!!
>no I won't show it
yeah
>>62509638
oh great the retarded fudd fishfags have turned up once again

>>62509649
Zimmerman, Rittenhouse.
Both cases where Democrat DAs had absolutely no case to press charges, but did so anyways purely out of spite and the gamble that they would get a conviction because they are vehemently anti-gun.
>>62509659
The fact he was exonerated only proves my point further.
Cry about it, fag.

>>62509672
>Zimmerman, Rittenhouse.
>innocent, innocent
Wow it's fucking nothing.
>The fact he was exonerated only proves my point further.
No, it literally doesn't.
>appeals courts correct ultra rare exceptions exactly as designed and then the law itself getting changed to further back that up doesn't count!!
>noooooo you have to believe my doomerism and be demooooralized ;_;
Nah.

>>62509659
You're a reddit tourist if you don't think gun ownership isn't seen as radical and that the government isn't willing to use underhanded methods to outlaw it

>>62509693
>doesn't own guns
>repeats doomer antiguns memes
>y-your le leddit >:(
yeah

>>62509693
you're arguing with aus/nz shitposter who doesn't own any guns and is probably only 19.
his arguments have run out and now it's time to just spam, samefag and try to play it off as a troll lol.

>>62507558
>lobbyist
Mercenary

Just because she used to shill for gun manufacturers doesn't mean she's pro-gun. She could just as easily (and probably is) work for an anti-gun organization. Lobbyists are mercenaries, they have no principles or loyalties.

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>>62509689
>Wow it's fucking nothing.
Hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in attorney fees, months to years of a trial being the central fixture of your life, and forced relocation aren't "nothing."
Thank you for your conceding to my point, though.
>No
>Nah
Awww, lol, what's the matter?
Nigger brain can't formulate an argument so you just stamp your feet now and say no?

>>62509638
>Your country's definition of what constitutes self-defense and permits it is not constitutionally enshrined or defined, and will change every time based on the prosecutor's whim in that case.
Except self-defense is a well understood and well defined concept, in Section 48 of the Crimes Act 1961.
It also enshrines defense-of-another in the exact same article.
The only difference is that it specifically states that you must use forces that, in the present circumstances, you deem are reasonable instead of the american "aww yeah, shoot the bugger it's all good".
>barely more secure than a locked pantry door.
Exactly. It's a child and retard filter.
Gun deaths in the home are by vast majority from children and toddlers who get access to improperly stored guns and shoot their parents or themselves by accident because they're exploring, or they're trying to look cool. This is a basic filter to both children and retards.
It also encourages gun maintenance imo. You take it out and assemble it, you use it, you take it apart, clean down, and store it again.
>additional hurdle and financial burden
Sure buddy. You can afford a gun and ammo, but not storage and a couple locks?

>>62509869
>Hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in attorney fees
nope, probono+covered by donations. super rare one offs are like that. glad you agree with me though!
>p-please guiz please stop owning guns and accessories and don't use them on criminals you'll go to le prisons!!! the juries? the science!??!
mmm. Nah :^)

>>62509562
>There’s Tony Martin, but as I understand it, he shot one of the guys in the back as they were fleeing his property, and then went to the pub rather than phone the cops
Based

>>62509562
UK law amounts for self-defense to essentially:
> Did you own or acquire the X that killed the thief legitimately
> Did you have a legitimate non-weapon purpose for having it to hand
> Were they still a threat (i.e. not fleeing for example) and you didn't initiate the incident
All yes, you're fine, otherwise you get charged.

To give an example; John Wick killing a man with a pencil would be OK if it was his pencil, he owned a pencil in case he wanted to write something, and the other guy was threatening him. But if he was carrying a pencil solely for the purposes of killing people, it could be treated as a weapon under law.

Tony Martin had a gun ready with the intent of shooting burglars, and shot one who wasn't a threat, hence the original judgement against him.

>>62507606
>>62507623
New Zealand has an outback culture and shooting on public land is legal, and even encouraged due to Boar, possum and Deer being invasive species.

>>62510014
>You can afford a gun and ammo, but not storage and a couple locks?

Go on the UK shooting reddit and 90% of the questions are people asking about the licensing and storage requirements. Just having any sort of hurdle is enough to put people off because they are lazy idiots.

>>62509562
yea shooting a fleeing assailant will get you charged pretty much everywhere including the US
the best thing you can do in that case is a temporary insanity (or what ever it's called in your local legal speak), the experience of getting mugged fucked you so bad you temporarily lost it and didn't act and think logically. You'd still need a sympathetic jury or judge to walk free but it can still knock years off your sentence.
>>62507623
while other western nations don't have it as good as the US. They still have it loads better than thurdies.
>>62511525
>UK
>reddit
I wonder why 90% bitch but do jack shit

>>62509633
>plunder
>have preserves the size of Europeon countries
COPE

>>62509638
>Harold Fish
https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetail.aspx?caseid=4266
You forgot that he was exonerated completely and that case completely torpedoed that DA's reputation.

>>62509562
>>62511006
>>62511451
Tony Martin scenarios happen all the time and they usually get away with it too because most farmers are smart enough not to blast the gyppos in the back while they're running away with an illicitly acquired gun after your license has already been revoked, or at least to not miss twice first.
Complete travesty he got done for murder originally though, should have just been diminished responsibly manslaughter in the first place, but it's for the best he didn't just away with it entirely or we'd get asshole landowners birdshotting their neighbours even more often than they do already.
The trick really is to just not have a nigga moment, not that big of an expectation.

>>62511658
the second most important thing in a self defense shooting is a good lawyer.
preferably a lawyer that has given you council beforehand as to what is and isn't legal, what will make you look more or less innocent and in general how to take your shot and not get 30 years.
here's a free one, if you know you are alone. Try calling out to the runner. If he turns to look around and you get him in the front it will look a lot better in court. Even if it's clear he was just turning to look "you honor I was sure I saw a gun and that he was turning to shot" does wonders.

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Remember the great shitposting campaign we organized after that law was passed? The police chief seething about international trolls was glorious. They got tens of thousands of legitimately-looking gun registration requests on top of pure SHALL and posh, a heck of a shotgun forms and had to go door-to-door checking them all.

>>62511722
The police chief was right.

Gun rights have been a hot button issue for Russian trolls and influence campaigns to spread malign influence in other countries.

In Australia, it was the "No" campaign in October 2023, where Russia successfully bolstered efforts to deny first peoples a voice.

In the US, it was the NRA, tenet media, and countless others, where Russians encouraged an anti social aspect of gun ownership and piggybacked their malign influence operations.

The UK gun control has largely been a nothingburger. Besides a few demoralized yanks embarrassing themselves, and russians screeching, sportsmen can largely get their needed tools.

Don't let this become a platform for malign influence in NZ.

>>62512219
The hell you talking about? The cunt prime minister said she's going to ban scary black guns and created a registration form to give up your weapons after. We filled it with tons of fake data and made the cuck Zealand police seethe about swatting random business owners on National TV. That's it, no KGB involvement needed. I think it was even before the donbabwe secession.

>>62512219
Go back predditor

>>62507558
Dios mios….

>>62512219
"muh NRA bad" is a Russian talking point iirc
them and the extremely racist pro-gun accounts

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>>62512219
Pretending everything nice that ever happens is the result of a Russian plot is the real Russian psyop.

>>62507558
If they are doing this (which is very unlikely) the only reason is because they knew the turn in rate was absolutely abysmal and want to save face before it starts becoming public how many AR's are still floating around in the public

>>62512810
yes in reality, everything that happens is a Russian psyop, not just the good or bad

>62512219
No.

>>62512219
see>>62512810


redditors are trying to convince me russia is actually based instead of an frozen AIDS shitthole with worse gun laws than most of europe.

>>62507558
>ex-gun lobbyist
>revising NZ gun laws
>ex

>>62513670
The problem being?

>>62507571
>>trusting politicians
>>trusting women
I know, /k/ is slipping. It's all the war tourists

>>62510029
you sound like an utter fag >>>reddit

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>>62512219
Post your guns

>>62509639
Waco, Ruby Ridge
>n-no, I meant a massacre like—
Shut up, tourist faggot.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

>>62507623
In the US you have overzealous district attorneys who make your life a living hell by dragging you through the court system until you plead to lesser charges or have to go in front of a jury (Judges are all prosecutor nannies) and hope they aren’t braindead and understand Self Defense law.
US law is good on paper, but in practice Prosecutorial Discretion is too broad and leads to miscarriages in justice.

>>62507558
If New Zealand became progun, it would btfo out of the argument that mental healthcare isn't needed and that only banning guns would suffice.

>>62516490
That's why it's just easier to become a felon and fuck women and deal drugs. You're already going to be fucked regardless, might as well just take it.

>>62507571
>women
Looks like a dude, dude.

>>62512219
Is this a bot, redditor or bait?
I genuinely can't tell.

>>62516498
Switzerland is the ultimate argument that its not down to gun rights, its just that Americans are fucking insane.

>>62516607
>americans
*niggers

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>>62512219