.30 Carbine is a good round. It should be adopted for more PDW-type roles
>>62508171Don't the Israelis use it for urban combat in areas they don't want to shoot through too many walls in still?I'd personally buy an AR upper in one if there was also an m1 carbine mag adapter like exists for Glock mags.
>>62508195>Don't the Israelis use it for urban combat in areas they don't want to shoot through too many walls in still?They basically use modernized versions of the M1 Carbine
>>6250817110mm is easily able to outperform it, and 9x25mm dillon is even betterit was great for its time, and now its antiquated after the 82 years its existed
>>62508226Pretty sure they also have some weird Galil variants that shoot .30carbine.
My dad killed a shit load od South Koreans with this and then got sent to Japan for the rest of his time in. Best round ever because it resulted in me.
>>62509055Kim's top guy.
>>62508253>Source >My unshaven asshole
>>62508171>.30 Carbine is a good round.>110gr>1990fpsEh. It's an old one that long since fell into awkward middle territory. It doesn't remotely reach the category of 5.56 or 7.62 rifle performance. It also isn't significantly better then handgun rounds out of an SMG or PCC, which is already a rapidly shrinking niche anyway because other guns do almost all the jobs better, and is a mediocre handgun round itself. It just doesn't fill any hole.If you've got an 80+ year old round that doesn't see much use anymore outside of surp/replicas OP, there's a reason for it.>It should be adopted for more PDW-type roles"PDW" was always a marketing meme and still is.
>>62509302you wanna suck my asshole, buddy?10mm can be easily loaded to .30 carbine specs, and thats just out of a pistol's barrel, not a rifle.30 carbine is an outdated round
>>62508195and what kind of walls do israelis encounter
>>62508195>they don't want to shoot through too many walls in still?That doesn't make sense; that would overpen worse than a 556 would. Even a lowly 9mm hollowpoint out of a pistol is a bigger overpen risk than a 556 out of a rifle.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSP0uZ61QDo
Ammo companies need to start cranking out more 30 carbine for $399/case. >but anon nobody will buy it! Fuck off theres millions of carbines in this country the ammo would sell.
>>62509592no one cares about your dumb fuddround grandpa you'll pay your 57cpr with your social security check and like it
>>62509696You are the blackest gorilla nigger I’ve ever seen
>>62508195the israelis use all kinds of outdated trash because they're a bunch of cheapass jews. the fact that it still works more often than not against untrained retards in flip flops is not exactly a ringing endorsement
>>62509055>south Koreans
>>62509325>It doesn't remotely reach the category of 5.56 or 7.62 rifle performance.the weapon is also 2 to 4 lbs lighter when loaded.Its perfect for its intended use PDWgo hiking with an m1 vs an m16 or AKthe benefits will be apparent immediately
>>62509337Complete crackhead idea but what about a longer casing 10mm and put it in a 30 carbine platform?
>>62509808>Its perfect for its intended use PDWWhich is a meme.>go hiking withThanks, I think I'll just go hiking with a handgun though. Also, lol:>an m1 vs an m16 or AKDo you actually have, or have ever even held, an M1 Garand anon? The LIGHT version was 9.5 lbs and 43.5" oal. If I really wanted a specific light hiking rifle, there are lots of <7 lbs, hell <6lbs, <30" better options in 5.56. Hell, people have managed to make AR15s that clock in under FOUR (4) pounds. Look at the OIP.Like come man, an M1 as a PDW, really?
>>62508253>muh modern bullet technology makes my pistol round outperform this 80+ year old carbine round>n-no, you can't use this same technology to make the carbine round stronger because... BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T, OKAY?!?
>>62509981>>an m1 vs an m16 or AK>Do you actually have, or have ever even held, an M1 Garand anon?Are you retarded? He meant an M1carbine.
>>62509696>-oomer logical fallacyOpinion discarded.
>>62510188nta but>>n-no, you can't use this same technology to make the carbine round stronger because... BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T, OKAY?!?Uh, yeah? Cartridges have specs, and guns are built with that in mind. There's some wiggle room, but if you go way outside the spec the guns either won't work at all or get potentially dangerous or have other issues. Endless cartridges are based on "improving an old round with newer ideas/capabilities", but then it's something else. Like 22 spitfire was indeed based on 30 carbine, decades later.So sure you could come up with a 30 super carbine and bump the pressure up from 40k to 55k or whatever and so on, but then you just end up into the exact same place as more modern rounds already are and with something nobody has guns for. Wildcatting can be fun for sure but that's not really OP's premise.
>>62508171Friendly reminder to all detractors that the M1 Carbine is the official anti-negro riot gun.
>>62510205>Are you retarded?Yep.>He meant an M1carbine.Duh. And that's only 5 lbs so yeah makes more sense.
>>62510244Lol I was gonna say this thing's like 6 lbs. max even when loaded.
>>62509981>He doesn't know you can get a Ruger blackhawk in 30 carbine
>>62510297Yeah no idea what the fuck I was thinking, been on the internet too long while doing brain rot work, rain is gone need to call it a day and get out and shoot. In north america at least I still see zero need for anything more than a handgun for self defense innawoods, and for a woods rifle m1 carbine still wouldn't be my pick. But if someone liked it yeah 100% reasonable weight.
>>62510357No big, blue-light mental fog can get to everyone. If I'm perfectly honest with myself, I know that, for all but the most unusual situations, I probably only really (((need))) a handgun. That being said, at least on my end, it's more of a desire to larp sort of thing. Shit feels cool.
>>62510409>That being said, at least on my end, it's more of a desire to larp sort of thing. Shit feels cool.Unironically and serious anon: in my opinion that is an absolutely solid and great reason. No free man needs any more justification than that.
>>625081715.56 does everything 30 carbine does but better. Funny because it’s going to be used in a similar manner.Infantry, cav scouts and combat engineers are getting the 6.8 Sig. Everyone else will have the 5.56 M4’s.
>>62508171You're several decades late to that idea.
>>62510231It's really not that far off considering OP's premise is "adopt this round for a PDW"There's presumably not a PDW in line waiting for this cartridge, so if something based on .30 carbine was adopted, the contenders would be built to a certain spec, like most military trials do.Also, considering 10 milimeme and 9x25 were brought up, I'd say there being no guns for the round would be a moot point. At the least, there'd be an AR upper. 10mm hardly has guns for it and I've never heard of a single gun chambered in 9x25 Dillon. I'm assuming there's a couple, but I've never heard of them.
>>62510665Cope. Everyone will have a 6.8 in 10 years. NGSW was a replacement, not supplemental weapon. ARs will never be on mars.
>>62510879>Xhe thinks one branch is "everyone"2 more weeks xig xisters!
>>62510879>shitty cases breaking>stupid fucking meme gun breaking>literally worse than 7.62 NATO by every metric possible>Nig's last entry is STILL going off when holstered and dropped, and the frames are still snapping in half for no reasonIf the US military keeps giving money and awarding contracts to Sig, there won't be a US in 10 years. The rest of the world will continue using 5.56 and ARs as the government shoots itself in both feet and turns America into Brazil.
>>62510790Despite being almost the same size, 5.7 is significantly less powerful than .22spitfire..22 spitfire is ballistically identical to .22hornet. It would actually be fucking cool if someone made a modern rimless 60kPSI Hornet, it would shit on 5.7.
>>62510967As a rifle round yeah but in the role of "smg that can sorta be squeezed into a handgun too so we can convince nato to give us gigabucks to replace 9mm" can see why it's lighter.>modern hornetNot exactly what you're after but from a PRS perspective 22 creedmoor looks pretty interesting.
>>62509337Why do none of you faggots ever cut your nails
>>62509337>.30 carbine is an outdated roundOnly because of the head design and the rifles it's chambered in. There's no such thing as an outdated case capacity, or outdated bore diameter, or outdated case length.A modern 30 carbine would be more powerful than 10mm.
>>62510983.22hornet performance absolutely could be squeezed into a pistol/PDW. The base diameter is .298, it has a dumb shoulder taking up height, and it's a 44kPSI casehead.5.7 as a loaded cartridge isn't optimized for projectile energy, it's optimized for penetrating soft armor, which is why it's powder column is sacrificed for more pointed bullets. A rimless (.300 rim) .22hornet with "K-hornet" geometry would be both a smaller case diameter and more powerful than 5.7, and it would fit double-stacked in handguns. It would also fit in the X+Z axes in receivers designed for rimfires, the rim is the same as .22wmr.
>>62508258Those got shitcanned due to reliability issues.
>>62510236What a legend
5.45x39 is objectively better than 7.62x39 and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
>>62510879Unless something has changed, the army said they’re rolling these out to combat MOS only. Maybe it’ll change in the future.
>>62511339That's the way it always goes. 75th, 82d and the top units get the new stuff for their infantry battalions first, then deploying units that need it. National Guard gets it last after all the active support units have upgraded.
>>62509491You have violated North Dakota antisemitism™laws. Please refrain from engaging in hate speech.
>>62509853that would basically be .44 AMP
>>62508171It's a god damn shame. 9x19 should be boxed down to a better form, a smaller caliber can do better. Aside from armor piercing. How is a shit shot with a 9x19 going to do better with a 32. acp. I can see using semi remiless. It's a waste of material. It's not like people are manufacturing for the elite of some society. Why they settled on 9x19 fucking confounds me. A small 30 cal pistol round that can fit more rounds makes a lot more sense.
>>62514516The semi rim failed, I can see why a .25 acp wasn't enough. There is nothing between that that is commercially available. I just don't get why people like to have their shit pushed in instead by this stuff and not like taking the fucking fight to someone else.
>>62514532You fight with what you have. People try to tie your hands. What kind of fucking fight do they want? Who wants a fair fight? Let's line up and do things fair. When has this ever happened? Fucking children think this shit like fair fucking I am going to have to go back to world war one tier fucking truncheons to club fucking to death while you make up theories about how people get shot.
>>62514540Everyone else on this planet should learn off a 5.56x54. I learned off it. Aint nobody else can't neither. If someone wants to teach 'em better they should. Learning you don't settle differences with these things is a completely different conversation.
>>62508171The case is, I think, a good parent for an MP7-type PDW chambering. The short OAL shouldn’t be wasted on a magazine that sits outside the grip. Neck it down to .224 or 6mm,, use a hybrid case and crank up the pressure, and you’d have something of a facsimile of m193 from a tiny, holsterable rifle. If OAL is a concern, 1.75” can be done conformance (IIRC India’s 5.56MINSAS is 1.75” long), and the grip circumference decreases with every degree of grip angle.Another idea. Make a 5.56 FABRL out of it. The one from the 70s was only 40kpsi and was duplicating m193 in BC and velocity with a 37gr bullet. Same can be achieved with the smaller 30 carbine case at normal pressure. This would allow slightly higher mag capacity, a smaller action cause less bolt thrust, and much lighter ammo.
>>625093377.5 FK is almost a ballistic clone of 30 carbine.
>>62509794Too based for /k/
>>62509853Here’s something that was tried some time ago. It’s the cartridge 2nd from the right. 10mm case head, necked to 9mm. OAL is, I estimate, around 1.8”The cartridge 4th from the left is the 5.56 MARS I referenced in an earlier post. 5.56 to its left and 5.7x28mm to its right for scale. Something to note though. If you retrofit a rifle designed from the ground up to accommodate a 30 carbine with 10mm (larger case head), you have to either drop the pressure or increase the size of the action (hard to do) thus increasing weight.
>>62509853>>62514673Dammit I forgot the picture.
>>62510188Id be curious to know how 10mm out of a PCC compares to 30 carbeen, but PCC is a four letter word on /k/
>>62514516That has been done, and incidentally, using the 30 carbine as a parent case7.92x24 VBR.https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/7.92%C3%9724mm30 carbine with the case taper reduced to accomodate a 7.92mm bullet, and the OAL reduce to that of 10mm. But it’s not better than 9mm by a significant enough margin to warrant a shift.
>>62514540>children think in terms of fairDude you’d be surprised. Most people think fairness is a property of the universe. I watched a news video recently about Putin threatening war should ukraine strike Russia with NATO-supplied weapons, and the commenters are talking about how it’s only fair for Russia to be hit, if they don’t want to get missiled they shouldn’t have invaded, and so on.
>>62510790They were ahead of their time. It would work nowadays though. Shorten the case a bit, fit a bullet in with decent drag characteristics, and run that bitch at 80kpsi. Chamber in an mp7. It’s gotta be the whole package. Will be stupid as an ar15 rechambering.
I should also add to this thread that picrel exists. 19 Calhoon Badger. 30 carbine necked to what I’m assuming is .197. Cartridge is short enough to fit in a mag-in-grip platform.
>>62510790>5.7 JohnsonI guess it never caught on in the '60s because .30 Carbines and their ammo were so cheap then.Too bad, the 5.7 Johnson would have been perfect for tiny bolt-actions - basically a rimless .22 Hornet.
>>62509807Black Marketers who tried robbing his supply depot. He shot them then got sent back to Japan to avoid a fuss.
>>62510236>I got rid of all my gunsFaggot.
5.56 is a much better round in most ways.
