I'm curious about how our soldiers and equipment would compare to WH40K average Guard regiment. Obviously just in fields that are comparable like training, military doctrine, guns, tanks, ground logistics, etc. We have no real space warfare capabilities (yet) so there is no comparison to be made in that case.
>>62515080Imp Guards are so used to taking casualties in the hundreds of thousands that they'd positively steamroll our modern westoid militaries. China would probably fare best against them unironically.
>>62515080ignoring the use of space weapons like laser guns and particle cannons that would make even the most disorganized rabble mob an extreme threat, of coursethe imperial guard have an extremely dated, WW2-esque, organization of units that would make them extremely cumbersome>12-man squad size with no fireteams>no designated special-weapons unless the squad is assigned one (ie. from the company/platoon weapons pool instead of organice to the squad)>no SAW or LMG in the squad, tripod-mounted weapons can be made available but only special forces get an automatic squad weapon>no organic FIST (only spotter units are the salamander recon vehicle/sentinel scout or the Master of artillery, they have no FO teams)>no organic JTAC or FAC, only a master of the fleets when he decides to attach himself to a company
They would be crushed because Imperium is the bestest, stronkest and coolest faction evar, let me tell you! They are so awsome and have so many weapons and tanks and men and ugh, I just can't stop gushing! Do you even know how powerful and high tier 40k is? Please now do the needful and take my setting seriously and be hyped for witcherino space marine tv show!
>>62515080>We have no real space warfare capabilities (yet) so there is no comparison to be made in that case.Well a good part of why they're so effective is that they have orbital logistics, take that away and all we have left is a run of the mill army using WW2 tactics with laser weaponsThat being said, Lasguns and their variants absolutely shit all over our modern weapons and they can sometimes deploy heavy bolters as emplacements
the issue isn't the guard or the spesh marinesit's the giant hunks of metal with magical shields that simply shunt what ever you throw at them into hell.the second problem is that they as a "state" respond to pain with more stuff, they only want to escalate. And they are an interstellar power, we are stuck on earth.
>>62515133>WW2 tacticsthat would be quite charitable to the guardeven the italians had the decency to equip one man per squad with a bipod-mounted MG to provide a base of firethe US had 2 BAR gunners so that one could maneuver while the other firedand the germans had the MG be the core of their "rifle" squadthe closest comparison the guard have would have been to 70s-era US rifle squadwho had nothing but M16s with the M60 being used by weapons teams, with a few extra to hand outbut this was recognized as inefficient, and SOP was to permanently assign an M60 to each squad
>>62515080They'd be totally fucked. Lasguns get a bad rap because they're relatively ineffective against threats that still exist in 40k, but that's because they already killed everything that was weak to lasgun fire (99% of xenos in the galaxy)
>>62515158To be fair, what really makes the lasgun the go-to weapon for the Astra Militarum is not its power, but the fact that it's dirt cheap, reliable and can be operated in a variety of situations (and can be recharged using light). As far as the actual stats go, it has much less range than modern assault rifles (300ft give or take) with a slower rate of fire. The only thing it does better than our rifles is raw damage, but a bullet would kill a human-level opponent just as well.
It depends a lot on what kind of IG regiment we're talking about. They can range from highly trained and disciplined like the Cadians/Krieg. To regiments that are just drug crazed nutjobs who only do what they are told 'cause they get more drugs. Then you get your regiments raised from worlds where they are equipped with literal muskets.So who knows?
>>62515113>12-man squad size with no fireteams10 men is the norm though, and they did have the option to split into firetams in the old Cities of Death supplement.Weapons assignment is highly variable, a lot of regiments do have the at squad level standard.>>62515175Lasguns have rifle ranges. RPG "standard" ranges are well below actual max range of the weapon - essetially the range at which snapshots with minimal aiming become effective.
>>62515193"average IG regiment" means Cadians until James Workshop says otherwise
>>6251508040k powerlevel in tactical battles is however strong the writer wants them to beIf we're going by established lore the average US army regiment with proper support would trounce a Guard regiment with proper support sans spaceships. At absolute best for the Guards you're looking at Guadalcanal or Chosin tier casualty ratios for the US. These comparisons suck because reality and 40k have completely different baselines. Sure lasguns and plasteel chestplates might be occasionally good against xenos but they're dogshit in modern warfare. Lasguns aren't even issued with optics.
>>62515216>Lasguns aren't even issued with optics.They aren't standard (as if Imperium logistics would allow for anything to be standard) but they are a thing.
>>62515203>Weapons assignment is highly variablebog standard rifle squad only gets lasguns and the squad leaders chainswordanything else is entirely handed down by orders from above, including the grenade launcher, plasma gun, heavy bolter, and autocannon
>>62515204Cadians would body most contemporary infantry in an urban setting, no-contest. People forget that IG, for all the jokes made at their expense, are the 'relative' cream of the crop military compared to the PDF or planetary defense forces, that make up the usual military presence on an Imperial world. Yes sometimes governors send their shit soldiers and keep the good ones for the PDF but most tithes pick the good ones.40k doesn't mean everyone suddenly forgot basic infantry skills and there's enough human-on-human warfare let alone xenos/daemons, that the sheer combat experience alone puts most IG regiments far above any peace-time real world infantry.
>>62515236>40k doesn't mean everyone suddenly forgot basic infantry skills and there's enough human-on-human warfare let alone xenos/daemonsfor at least 5 editions, that was the jokethe IG were a darkly humorous take on WW1 stereotypes like "lions led by donkeys"and they only started treating them like a serious faction after they had accrued a massive fanbase who demanded they be treated seriously
>>62515242But nowadays, in theory, 2000 points of AM should be 50/50 against 2000 points of any other army. Hypothetically, in an alternate universe where GW was capable of juggling 20+ factions' worth of rules effectively.
>>62515114culture war brainrot is a sad thing to see.
>>62515080Are Space Marines going to show up?If so, the real militarizes would wreck the Guard so they have to be saved by the Marines. If not, the Guard would dominate.
>>62515288>guard suffers 99% casualties and then one helmetless named Ultramarine solos every military on Earth
>>62515229>anything else is entirely handed down by orders from above, including...heavy bolter, and autocannonCrew served weapons are handed out at the platoon level and are fixed equipment in most regiments. Based on which regiment they may have up to six weapon teams pre platoon. Not saying its a great way to do things but its a bit better then you may think it is for the IG. >>62515175Lasguns are noted in a number of books as having a effective range of 600 m. >>62515080The IG would do poorly because by design most regiment do not have the needed assets to do combined arms inside of the regiment itself. Having said that ones raised on more trusted worlds ( like Cadians ) DO have such assets. Having said that I think that fighting enemies that make good use of air power would not go over well for the IG at all.
>>62515175>To be fair, what really makes the lasgun the go-to weapon for the Astra Militarum is not its power, but the fact that it's dirt cheap, reliableYeah, it's basically a space AKM
>>62515088>if your enemies kill you, you winThis is why 40k is so popular in russia
>>62515365>Crew served weapons are handed out at the platoon levelthey are available both as dedicated weapons teams, which is the sane way a tripod-mounted weapon would be used, and embedded within a squad itself, which would be a squads only organic automatic weaponit would be like if a WW2 squad had absolutely zero bren guns and had to rely entirely on vickers guns
>>62515080>Average IG regimentUnlike what some 40k wankers like to tell you the average IG regiment would be undertrained, modestly equipped conscripted hive-world infantry regiments, and frankly even Cadians would be trounced. IG tactics are stuck in the early cold war at best and even IG infantryan from cadians don't usually have NVGs or any supplemantary equipment like optics.The IG also has barely any integrated air support (they rely almost exclusively on the navy for it, and the navy doesn't want to bring more gropo shit then they have to), and the IG also tend to seperate most of their artillery into artillery regiments according to Only War.
It would probably look like a game of XCOM wherein 99% of the enemies are low level sectoids and our guys can occasionally hit an 80% accuracy shot. Also lasguns would suck to have in a fight, everytime you fire it, you have this big beam of red light advertising where you are. For that matter, look at guy in the middle of it all, shouting at the men. How could a sniper/MG/marksman/partisan etc not target him first?
>Astra Militarium used to be combined warfare doctrine army>They were killing to many space marines during the hersery>Nu Empire divide them up in pure artillery, infantry, tank armies with no direct access or communication with each otherFuck Space Marines
>>62515261>culture warIs it culture war to openly state the obvious fact that your setting is fucking cringe? No matter how you cut it, its fucking stupid purile shit about angry todler-brained guys in armor fighting other angry todler-brained guys in armor. Its fucking bionicles except with an audiance of babies who seethe and screech how actually its all super-serious and thought-provoking sci-fi cult-classic. I don't care if you jerk off to the Imperium unironically or are pretending to be profound by calling it fascist satire in a contrarian tone. Its fucking cringe shit for babies either way.
>>62515113>no designated special-weapons unless the squad is assigned one (ie. from the company/platoon weapons pool instead of organice to the squad)This feels like an over interpretation of the tabletop rules. In game guardsman don't have squad weapons by default so the player has the option of building an under equipped meat wave style regiment, but in lore the more organised guard regiments (most of them) do have organic squad weapons.
Whenever I see the IG in any sort of videogame/mini-series it always looks like they're less modern than our militaries.I understand le heckin WW1 with lasers vibe but in lore it's always told the IG relies on fire support, tanks, etc yet all you see are 10 stormtroopers whiffing their shots and getting obliberated by some enemy using melee.
>>62515441Terminal case, very sad.
>>62515080A single regiment gets fucked because they get virtually no artillery, air-support, or armor, since it was deemed verboten after the Heresy.
Westerners are averse to casualties, the Imperial Guard is notThey can waste millions of men to take over America
>>62515080Their lasguns are good enough to blast through any body armor you've got and then some
>>62515080Absolutely depends on the regiment. Armageddon steel legion would fuck modern militaries
ya muddah
>>62515757the armagedden steel legion are literally just ww2/early cold war mechanized dude
>>62515227>>62515216Why would you bother? It already has perfect accuracy and even near misses due to operator error are likely to blind many opponents, your typical building clearing operation would involve a single shot through each window then executing/capturing all the screaming blind dudes inside. If anything the most unrealistic thing about the IG is that although they canonically have eye protection they are never shown using it.Also: Meltaguns are pure horror if you haven't dealt with them before.
>>62516175>why would you ever bothman who has never shot a gun before.>can blind peoplenever portrayed such in the majority of works so cope?
>>62516242also meltaguns only work at literally CQB canonically they're basically irrelevant.
>>62516242They have sights dumb ass. Why bother when your weapon does the same thingas a laser sight but actually hurts them? Their typical lifespan in combat (15 hours) combined with the usual ranges makes it pointless.Yes they do do mention blinding, there are several books that mention it is why so many officers have bionic eyes although as mentioned it isn't mentioned nearly enough because brits are dumb.Please explain how a laser capable of blowing through doors and brick walls can't blind people. I'll wait kiddo.>>6251624730-50 meters max range by canon but vastly more powerful against armor the closer you get.
>>62516292perfect accuracy does not matter if you cannot properly aim your weapon, retard.>several booksI don't care if single writer or a cabal of his faggot friends autistically favor lasguns blinding people.>duurrr why doesn't it blind peoplebecause 40k isnt reality and lasguns aren't always even portrayed as firing at lightspeed.i dont know where you got those range numbers from (only war?) but anything under a few hundred meters range is literally irrelevant
>>62515088They would be using masses of people to clear our cluster bombs. I don't think China would be, but the United States only since we are really good at killing a lot of people in a short amount of time with air strikes. That being said, I don't think the imperial guard would actually have better technology than us, just raw numbers of some off rimworld nobody has ever even cared or heard about.
I find it ironic Imperial Guard on the Table top is one of the most broken/OP factions in the game.Playing combined arms is strangely enough a requirement to win as them. That and all the Bullshit stratagem combos they have.
>>62515391It's popular in Ukraine too.They literally take symbols off of 40k and use it as brigade logo.
>>62516175>even near misses due to operator error are likely to blind many opponentsPlease explain
>>62515113>no FISTing in the guardThe grimmest and darkest of futures
>>62515435Yeah. But a lasgun canonically has the effect on target of a .50 bmg. Heavy bolters are equivalent of a 30mm autocannon. The standard infantry weapons can overmatch vehicle-carried modern weapons.
>>62515080Nuke them then use all the anti Soviet horde weapons like cluster weapons and napalm against them.
>>62515113>no SAW or LMG in the squadThat's wrong
>>62515193Seconding this, there's such a wide variety of regiments available that you'd really need to explicitly say what you mean before you can make a meaningful comparison (even if you can't field them all anymore - RIP Warrior Weapons).
>>62515133>lasguns shit all over modern weapons Lol someone hasn't played Darktide.
>>62515440IIRC it was less that they were too good against SM, more that everything organizational post-Heresy is done with an eye towards "Let's not give any one commander/unit too much power in case they start acting weird and we have to purge them."
>>62518769People are bad at trying to grasp scale, the imperium is thousands upon thousands of worlds with their own variations on Imperial culture.Also some people just have a kneejerk hatred for 40k due to more recent history (which can be fair, both what they did to fantasy and 40k is garbage and GW is a shitbag company overcharging the consumer for low-quality products) and are just looking to shit on it with their secondhand knowledge of the guard.
>>62518516>lasguns are .50bmgSTOP THIS DUMB FUCKING MEME.
>>62518769Huh, never seen that version of this image
>>62515080Take a look at Russia. Now give them lasers. There you go. >Leman Russ turret toss>Chimera's getting utterly FUCKED by Bradley's >HIMARS just ctrl alt delete entire Guard artillery divisions with nothing being able to touch them>deathstrikes just get Patriot'd The Imperial Guard would legit think that we are Tau auxiliaries or technosorcerers.
Imperial Guard would punch through what they could hit but doctrinally theyd be overwhelmed.
>>62518861That'd be because I had the two pages saved separately, but didn't want to post twice so I merged them in GIMP. Deffo stealing yours, though.>>62518864Leman Russes don't have autoloaders, though...
suddenly...
>>62515743Yes but can they shoot through windows?
>>62518880No, but they have WET AMMO storage and still cook off. >gaunts ghosts >Leman Russ gets hit by AMX-10 IN SPESS>sole survivor gets legs blown off>water storage floods into crew compartment >shorts out electrical system and electrocutes/explodes survivor
Imperial guard body armour is much better than ours isn't it, like even their uniforms are weaved to be protective against bullets and shrapnel nevermind the vests and helmets.It just doesn't matter much in their home series because people they face aren't using our bullet-firing pistols and rifles, those are weapons you might see in the hands of imperial citizens and gangers.So despite being impressive by our count it kind of looks lame next to the giant monk faggot in his walking tank suit.
>>62515080Most of them would raw dog us and that’s just Astra Militarum in 40k. I would say a regiment from the Excertus Imperialis of 30k would really have no issue with present day earth unless it was completely unsupported and we used chemical weapons and nukes on them.
>>62518788Darktide makes concessions all over the place in service of gameplay. A typical mission has 4 acolytes kill ~1000 heretics.One of my favorite playstyles is to be a stealthy crackhead with a combat knife and a headhunter autogun. The autogun pops specialist enemies I can't stab, and the knife handles literally everything else from shamblers (chaff) to chaos spawn and beasts of nurgle.
>>62518516It's less about the damage they can do and more about how it gives your position away. Your standard Guardsman (katakana need not apply) will die just as quick to .556 as any other human would and they would have a harder time figuring out where those bullets came from
>>62519013>kill ~1000 heretics.
>>62515435lasguns are actually inspired by the pulse rifles from aliens. In the books they're said to seem like they fire superheated air and actually have less of a muzzle flash than a regular gun would.
>>62515391US army psyops isn't sending it's best.
>>62515158most guard regiments dont even allow them to turn the power up to LOL NO MORE ORKZ setting on their lasguns.
>>62515133The only real advantage of lasguns over modern rifles is ammunition. As far as penetration power and stopping power, all of the things that can stop rounds from an AR will stop las rounds as well in the lore.
>>62518788>someone hasn't played DarktideOr the tabletop game itselfor read any of the fluff pieces in the rulebooks or codexor Inquisitoror Dark Heresyor Necromundaor pretty much anything really.Sometimes I wonder where these power level faggots come from.
>>62519107tbf you should never use the tabletop as a source because it's so heavily compacted and makes huge concessions thanks to limited table space for armies and using 6 sided dice for its rules.
>>62519137I'm mentioning the tabletop because there's a huge amount of actual detailed fluff behind it, and that fluff is the highest tier of canon.
>>62517450Please go to youtube and search any clip involving home laser experimentation, the ones involving cheap chinese tattoo removal lasers are especially good. Anything above class IV can blind via reflection or diffusion. A 500 mV laser can permanatly damage your sight just by hitting a mildly reflective surface in the same room. A laser equal in energy to a modern rifle round is a massive blinding hazard.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety>>62518927Heh, i remember that book. Urdesh makes things that are exact T-55 and WW2 armored car copies, the Russes have better optics and can move and fire but when GW says 'RHA equavalent' they actually mean IRL RHA, a T-55 can pen a russ. Also:>Y40,000>There are still T-55s rolling around>Of course at least one T-55 is possessed by a Daemon of Khorne
>>62519197Oh I meant tabletop stats because I have seen mfs argue over the actual game stats meanwhile a combat knife can give your average guy +2 strength making him hit harder in melee than firing a bolt gun which fires .65 caliber explosive rounds.
>>62516343>That being said, I don't think the imperial guard would actually have better technology than usO I am laffin
>Hunter-Killer missile>Rare, arcane archeotech>Among the best anti-tank weapon at their disposal at that scale of combat>Only to be launched at the highest-priority targets>It's just a guided missile>It doesn't even have top attack
>>62519250I dunno man, pretty much every claim of superiority for a lot of 40k shit comes from feats against other 40k shit but I'm starting to think if you plopped an Abrams in the setting it would probably perform those same feats and then some. Maybe it has the same issue I suspect Dragon Ball of having where everything in universe looks impressive because everything in said universes is actually pretty easy to blow up (using power levels, 25 farmers with shotguns can blow up the moon in DB).
>>62519331Power levels are literal nonsense, trying to use them as some sort of science is folly.Just say dragonball z/super is shit and be done with it.
>>62519331When 3rd edition came out the writing team talked about the justifications behind the rules in White Dwarf and said, no joke, Imperial tanks are incredibly primitive and can't fire on the move because they don't know how to use the FCS on their tanks. Man, I wish I still have my copies of White Dwarf from back then.
>>62515288>1000 glorified IFVsMuhreens would become marinadeBut they would be terrifying enemy especially in cities
>>62518795This is the actual way Soviet and Soviet-derived armies are organized today. Every decision making is centralized and no initiative is allowed at the unit level.
>>62515088china couldn't beat anyone in our reality, stop jokingthe best army we have is still the US, and they would be too busy being confused about which gender pronouns they should select on their pre-battle phone app before guardsman bombarded them and ran them through with bayonets
>>62518739squads can only take a heavy stubber on a tripod as a heavy weaponor mount heavy weapons on mountsfor some reason, bipod-mounted stubbers firing from belts are not usedsomething like the volleygun would make more sense as their automatic weapon
>>62520208Tabletop isn't the only way things work, Guardsmen have been shown carrying heavy stubbers in media.
>>62520190>>>/pol/
>>62515080They have lasersAnd a HUGE numbers advantage (Recruiting from a planet vs recruiting from a country)
>>62520241he said regiment retard not the impreium
>>62515080I want to get into 40k as i like dark fantasy/space kind of things but its just so over the top i cant take it seriously, its like what a 10 year old would think its the coolest shit ever
>>62515080From what I understand about the lore in 40k, humanity could be an absolute superpower if they'd just tone down on the edge. They have the numbers, tech, magic, camaraderie, and devotion and if utilized properly they could easily body the other races, but it's always space marine wank and every 13yr old incels wetdream.
>>62520296Its terrible nowadays, the writing of the setting has nosedived in quality since they brought back the primarchs and introduced GigaSpace MarinesWhere before it was a silly over the top setting that was absolutly sprawling in scale where you were encouraged to slot-in and create 'your guys' with your army list via creative modeling now its all about focusing much more heavily on a metaplot tied to a small amount of special characters.Basically killing off the greater potential to tell really shit ongoing stories.Same what they did to Warhammer Fantasy except there they literally killed it off just to reboot into a shit new setting entirely.
>>62520309the problem is they can't tone down the edge. the edge is built into the system and without it they collapse.
>>62515391We lost Vietnam and Afghanistan because a few thousand casualties were considered too much. A military that can take hundreds of thousands of casualties without blinking or faltering is an asset all its own.
>>62520327I mean i get that over the top is kinda the pointI dont understand how its played and honestly i dont want to paint figurinesbut are the books worth it? Like are they a intresting read, or they only make sense if you play
>>62520309>From what I understand about the lore in 40k, humanity could be an absolute superpower if they'd just tone down on the edgeThat's wrong, as much as it holds them back alot of the edge actually keeps them alive.Turning into a bunch of star trek faggots wouldn't somehow make them top dog in the galaxy, which is often as equally fucked up as the Imperium is.Also humanity was much grander in a previous golden age, where they had technology casually that the modern humanity can barely imagine.They still got fucked up by a succession of events.Finally of note; GW writers are shit and feel the need to one-up themselves when it comes to powerlevel escalation of antagonist forces constantly.To the poiny everyone is fucked from a dozen different sources in 40k, its utterly ineveitable with whats been written.
>>62520355>I dont understand how its played and honestly i dont want to paint figurinesYou certainly don't, Games Workshop models are horribly overpriced. Its all a fucking con.Maybe some of the older book series or comics are worth a read. Not the new stuff and don't even think of reading the Horus Heresy novels (the time period should have been so heavily focused on/detailed, also the novels introduce so many terrible retcons in the process)
>>62519107At least in Underhive Lasguns are way better than autoguns. Still not great but if you can get them cheap they're definitely better. Longer short range means they're more accurate at every range but charge range, and trades rapid fire for plentiful. Obvs I run all my Cawdor with autoguns and exterminators but yeah, lasguns mog the fuck out of autoguns.
>>62520329It used to be more tongue-in-cheek british sci-fi grimdark, like Judge Dredd when its well-written or Nemesis the Warlock.They got too obsessed with making it 'deep' storytelling and cinematic as a franchise.
>>62515088>>62515080There is one dedicated air regiment spread across the entire, possibly trillion-man strong Imperial Guard; what our guys would lack in ground forces would be made up tenfold in air power.
>>62520387To be of note, lasguns come in countless different (named) models and configurations across the Imperium. Thus having various different qualities like rate of fire, maximum firepower, etc.
>>62520411>There is one dedicated air regiment spread across the entireDoubtFor one thing not every single regiment in the IG is detailed, th
>>62520412
>>62520218>Tabletop isn't the only way things workthe vanilla tabletop guard are the cadians, who are explicitly the template from which a vast majority of guardsmen are based ondeviations from the standard, like catachans having as many shotguns as lasguns, are very rare
>>62519395What do you mean?
>>62520433Nah.See >>62518861Across a billion worlds you see all sorts of variety in how guard regiments are raised and sent of to do their durty for the wider imperium, so many with their own odd quirks and gimmicks.Its the same gay writing the led to writers trying to shit on the likes of the Black Templars or other 'non-codex' space marine chapters for being better off than the smurfs and curtail their successes/individuality.
>>62520400yeah im talking about the setting in the past decade or two, not the setting back in first.
>>62520346they blink and falter all the time, anon. IG deserters and defectors show up in lore all the time, both to chaos and utter shitloads of them to the tau.>>62520418it's not one regiment but one regimental founding, and yes it's true because they seperated the vast majority of air power into the imperial navy.>>62520433the EQUIPMENT is copied. the actual effectiveness is not.
>>62520416In which case, my point still stands. Compared to modern post-atomic armies, IG is severely lacking in aerial assets, which is a deliberate choice by the Imperium to ensure a general is less able to steamroll whatever government of the planet he's been assigned to and install a global junta. >>62520418Truth.https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Phantine_Air_CorpsThe Phantine Air Corps is the only imperial air force that isn't under Navy control post Great Crusade, and they only got to be that because Phantine is otherwise impractical to hold without an organic air wing due to all its habitable terrain existing on isolated mountain tops.Perhaps there might be more worlds like it with their own similar exceptions, but the net result is that the IG is extremely ground-heavy and reliant on the Imperial Navy for air support, the latter of whom spurns loading up on atmospheric fighters it might have to use if called on by the guard versus moar spacecraft.Funnily, the Imperial Guard has an organic maritime naval component... which requires the actual Imperial Navy for transporting their vessels to a planetary theater.
>>62520346we lost vietnam and afghanistan because a few thousand/tens of thousands of casualties for no apparent goal was considered too much
>>62520483There's not just one regiment world in the imperial guard that solely is the users of anti-air gear, you're retarded anon.
>>62520484There are other Imperial Guard regiments with an aerial-focus, Elysian Drop Troopers are a well-known one.
>near infinite ammo>accurate fire>user friendly>energy based so the magazine just needs to be recharged>can be chraged by placing it near a heat source>but it's ineffective against other races because having the regular guys upstage the super special snowflake spessmarines makes the neckbeards feel insecure
>>62520484Why so weird that the Imperial Guard are ground focused while the Imperial Navy handles Aerospace? In real life the Army and the Airforce are different branches, they just don't bother splitting the air force and the space force into further branches.
>>62520484>fandomBe less disgusting, please.https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Phantine_Air_CorpsAlso, still false. The Phantine may be the only pure-IG Air Force *that is known*, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been others, just that it's exceptionally rare. They also aren't "spread out across the entire...Guard", they're generally deployed as a unit the same as the rest of the regiments. Finally, as >>62520538 pointed out, there are other "air regiments" in the Guard (note that you said "air regiment", not "air force").
>>62520546>near infinite ammoshots per gun is pretty close to autoguns and stubguns, 30-50 per battery pack >can be chraged by placing it near a heat sourcedepends on the writerthough the ability to store 30MJ from a heat source within less than an hour would imply you placed it next to a steel foundrywriters who remember this fact have them only be able to charge from dedicated chargers>but it's ineffective against other races because having the regular guys upstage the super special snowflake spessmarines makes the neckbeards feel insecureon the tabletop is the definition of extremely average, its S3, rapid fire a boltgun is S4, rapid fire, but costs a few points more
>>62515080The Imperium is ridiculously inefficient. They are terrible at combined arms warfare, too. The main advantage they have is numbers and massively oversized ordnance. Lasguns are actually pretty good, though, so I’d say they have a slight edge there in a lot of situations. But we really don’t know how imperial armor stacks up against modern anti-armor munitions. We’d have to know that to really answer.
>>62520574Game mechanics are meaningless.
>>62518739>>62520208Which is lame as hell: you'd think in the dozens of millennia they'd innovate enough to make a HMG that doesn't weigh as much as a sack of bricks, especially during the DAoT.
>>62520720they did eventually add a space M240, in the form of a hotshot volleygunwith more range than a lasgun, a rate of fire of fire approximately double that of the heavy bolter or heavy stubber, and with some ridiculous punch: it penetrates space marine armor it is only used by tempestus scions and seems to be even rarer than plasma gunsguard cant even take it at all, which is surprising when they can take hotshot lasguns but not the hotshot volleygun
>>62520591At no point are lasguns ever described as having 'infinite ammunition' you trog.>>62520507I didn't say anti-air gear I said they were the only known source of native plane support for the IG.>>62520720The imperium really does not like innovating things. they DO it but are extraordinarily autistically slow
>>62520759Nothing I said had anything to do with infinite ammunition you retard, how did you even get that from the content of the post.
>>62520738>tempestus scionsScions were dumb shit.
>>62520799they were afraid of getting their space army men confused with the shi ar ones
>>62520794i assumed you were the same person who made the infinite ammo post responding to the guy who made the critique
>>62520806That's half the reason they killed off WHF, so they could rename all their fantasy shit in the new universe for copyright purposes.
>>62515175>As far as the actual stats go, it has much less range than modern assault rifles (300ft give or take) with a slower rate of fire.Absolutely wrong. It has the same exact range of an autogun which is just a modern rifle more or less but has more per shot power and depending on model has fire selection for full auto available. >>62515080Their armor is basically 3A for the soft parts and 4+ for the armored sections. Pretty tough stuff. Lasguns are basically as good or better than any man portable rifle. They're also lasers so dead easy to aim and come with magnified optics standard. Also the average squad can take a flame thrower or grenade launcher. Heavy weapons teams are readily available for emplacements. Their airforce is going to be competent enough, since they can manage to dogfight the tau. our fighters are probably around tau-tier in short bursts. The individual trooper is going to be inferior in skill and tactics and resources but superior in 1:1 equipment, discipline and numbers.
>>62520843
>>62520824I think this could probably get bodied by a US Army battalion going off the armor thickness stats posted earlier in the thread
>>62520190faggot ass nigga
Wouldn't the Lasgun's range be variable based on its operation environment? Atmosphere and lasers and all that. The higher the altitude and thinner the atmosphere, the higher the effective range.
>>62515080The Imperial Guard is pretty shit, a lot of them use WW1 tactics, and the good ones use WW2 tactics. Their equipment is even designed in that way, the Leman Russ is based on WW1 tank designs. They're so garbage that they routinely lose to a tiny empire with 1/1000th of the manpower because they're so easy to outmaneuver and they have almost nothing in the way of air support.
>>62521199>and they have almost nothing in the way of air support.Thgat's just outright lying
>>62521202>Thgat's just outright lyingthe only guy who can act as FAC or JTAC is the master of the fleets, who is a navy attache rather than an organic part of their companythe only air support the guard has is the valykrie for transporting
>>62521202It's not though. The Imperium has a WW2 Japan tier rivalry going on between the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy, and the Imperial Navy is responsible for like 99.9% of the air support the Imperial Guard gets. The Imperial Navy can and will routinely deny the Imperial Guard air support because they prefer to protect their ships, or even just to fuck the Guard over.
>>62521161applying logic to the imperium means it falls apart on contact with most things
>>62521223>make a pastiche of heavy metal cover albums and historical armies>set in a deliberately over the top universe thats supposed to be as grimey and depressing as possible, so that you can have black comedy like "20,000,000 casualties to take a hill because the general got tired of waiting" >all of its fans are autists who complain about logic and realismwhat makes people like this?
>>62521237its a thing that seemingly every fandom in the last 20 years has been doing, sometimes it actually makes sense but shit like this never has, but the companies that own these settings don't care and encourage it anyway
>>62519331It depends. The average lasgun is the equivalent of a high-powered automatic rifle that you get basically infinite bullets for. If you read the wiki, they recharge them with any heat or light source, so chucking them in a campfire or even laying them out in starlight is enough to keep the laser pew pew supply at 100%. That alone is a massive advantage
>>62521258Not at 100%. Charging your lasguns in such a way MASSIVELY damages the ammunition packs. Basically, you throw your lagun pack in a campfire, it'll be recharged in the morning, but you'll only be getting 40% of the ammo capacity you had before.
>>62521216>rivalryIt's separation of command, not a rivalry.>The Imperial Navy can and will routinely deny the Imperial Guard air support because they prefer to protect their ships, or even just to fuck the Guard over.[citation needed]
>>62521328>It's separation of command, not a rivalry.No, what the American military has is a separation of command. What the Imperium has are rivalries. So bad in fact that they can and will shoot at each other and engage in mini-civil wars.
>>62515444Your pic would be more effective with a picture of a, you know, custodes.
>>62515080They would get absolutely fucking destroyed, because as it stands right now Earth is exactly the kind of low-population low-tech planet that the Guard routinely knocks over, but significantly less militarised, more casualty-averse, and without even a hint of even the most mundane legacy gene-enhancement.
So at base level each guardsmen is carrying around a FAL with 50 round mags and level 4 armor across the torso and head. Some units will have and use things like modern radio equipment for each man, active camo cloaks, thermal or NVGs, advanced medical gear, all in excess of what you'd find your 11B today getting. On the other hand you could get none of that and be lucky to have a manpack radio for the whole squad. I'd say we take the middle ground.So a Regiment is roughly the size of a US Brigade and that's what I'll compare it to. A US IBCT (from 2013) is 3 Infantry Battalions, An engineering battalion, a Cav Squadron (stryker mounted , A Fire support Battalion composed of 1 heavy and 2 light batteries and a support battalion plus the HHC. Roughly 5k men on the high end iirc. No organic armored vehicles outside of limited numbers of APCs for the mounted cav units but they will have access to a lot of FMTVs and HMMWV/JLTVs for much faster tactical and strategic mobility. There is plenty of anti armor support at battalion level and light and medium mortars are organically attached everywhere. (https://files.catbox.moe/oqyhiy.png)The Guard on the other hand is just going to be straight infantry battalions all the way through. They will very MASSIVELY in size from something like the famous cadain 8th having twenty fucking four companies under its command(https://files.catbox.moe/b8fi0r.jpg) to a much more reserved 9 for a Tallarn Light Infantry Regiment (https://files.catbox.moe/xiigz8.jpg) You'll probably get some limited sustainment units folded in to keep everything fed and supplied with ammo but its going to be far more limited then the US's efforts so they'll run out of steam quickly. No fire support either outside of the company's weapon platoon's light mortars and heavy weapons teams. The unit is also mostly on foot with limited IFV support generally reserved for heavy weapons and command teams meaning they will be MUCH slower.
>>62519199>T-55'sJust wait until you see a "snub pistol".
>>62521407do you enjoy lying
>>62521216>long barrel mp5
>WH40K faggor soldiers try to shoot>Can't because their retarded firearms were designed by a self loathing British faggot>Die to a 5.56 to the face Clean up would take a while since there are so many of them
>>6252144040k fans love to cope how their universe is actually weak as piss, lasguns aren't good (Hellguns are) they are the cheapest possible option because a human is less valuable than ammo.
>>62521407Continuing were i left off, The US has a decisive edge here particularly with that fire support + Cav squad. That allows them to seek out and pour fire into the much slower guard units before they can get into range. However on the small scale like two squads running into each other or even a company I think the guard is going to come out of that fight on top. This is mainly due to manpower, US army units are nearly always under-strength unless something major is going on. Even during the height of GWOT shenanigans my Drill Sergent only had 6 men in his on paper squad of 9-13 men. Guard squads already start at 10 men and are almost always portrayed at full strength. Even if the individual solider is a better fighter you can only do so much at near 2:1 odds. Or the US in this situation could get really unlucky and go up against the elysians in a drop troop regiment and they can do fuck all against what is effectively a Air cav unit that is flying some horrible combo of a MI24 and a blackhawk carrying both infantry and a bunch of sentinels with https://files.catbox.moe/z7sles.jpg. I Feel think it would be more of a toss up if you had an ABCT and Armored regiment going at it. Artillery would probably just be a game of who managed to fire first because the US will be on target and the guard will just turn the grid square to ash
>>62521440Lasguns are pretty commonly described as equivalent to autoguns just with nearly free ammo and near zero recoil in setting and most autoguns are firing full rifle caliber rounds. Flak armor is also widely described as equivalent to modern body armor. I've catboxed literally every source for regimental sizes and structure
>>62515080>I'm curious about how our soldiers and equipment would compare to WH40K average Guard regiment.By "our" do you mean Earth in 2024 in general or a specific country in particular?>Obviously just in fields that are comparable like >training, This is such a varied topic in lore that there is no clear answer to be given>military doctrine, Due to certain events in the lore the Imperial Guard is heavily divided so that each regiment is extremely specific to just one arm of warfare. Tank regiments, infantry regiments etc. so the average regiments doctrine vs. IRL Earth is lacking and a dingle regiment sent to us would get curb stomped harder than Wagner in Donbas>guns, Ranging by deployment from WW2-era solid projectile weapons to Sci-fi energyblasters>tanks, Slow and cumbersome MBTs, featuring also supermassive tanks and extensive use of IFVs depending on the regiment>ground logistics, etc. Carried out by a different government function of the Imperium, usually not left to the regiments >We have no real space warfare capabilities (yet) so there is no comparison to be made in that case.True
>>62519106>The only real advantage of lasguns over modern rifles is ammunition.No bullet drop at range. No worries about windage. Effectively no recoil.>As far as penetration power and stopping power, all of the things that can stop rounds from an AR will stop las rounds as well in the lore.Yeah, nah. Autoguns are full-calibre battle rifles and equal to Lasguns at low settings unless you dig out specialty rounds.
>>62516292My opinion is that lasgun lore makes a lot more sense if you assume that they're some kind of particle or plasma weapon rather than actual lasers. That would neatly explain why blinding isn't more of a thing.
>>62519302>It also goes through a meters-thick concrete berm and still penetrates the armored vehicle behind it
>>62519331>picAnd meanwhile we got canon depictions of Russes shrugging off hits that would permanently wreck an Abrams through sheer kinetic energy transfer alone.
>>62515113>>12-man squad size with no fireteamsNot necessarily needed in the massive wave tactics used by the Guard>>no designated special-weapons unless the squad is assigned one (ie. from the company/platoon weapons pool instead of organice to the squad)Depends on the guard regiment>>no SAW or LMG in the squad, tripod-mounted weapons can be made available but only special forces get an automatic squad weaponHeavy weapons are platoon level elements in the Guard plus as you said it's mostly based on WW1 WW2 era aesthetics so massive fucking team operated guns>>no organic FIST (only spotter units are the salamander recon vehicle/sentinel scout or the Master of artillery, they have no FO teams)See above for era they're based on>>no organic JTAC or FAC, only a master of the fleets when he decides to attach himself to a company
>>62521503And absolutely useless at range. Smoke, fog, and other particulates would make lasguns virtually useless never mind getting through ceramic plates. Lasguns are a sub 200 meter weapon, which is why longlas are a thing.
>>62521523>yet gets killed by WW2 techWhy the fuck you lying, why you always lying, why the fuck you lying?
>>62521523GW has also gone and stated that the armor on a Russ is 200cm and all that fucking bullshit before they got their shit together in the late 2000s, before they let it all go to hell in 2014For a few years we had solid, consistent writing
So many faggots looking for an excuse to bitch about 40k jump to one regiment vs all of earth combined, when OP didn't even mention any kind of vs battle faggotry and just asked how real life earth soldiers/forces would compare to imperial troops.
>>62521532last i checked ATGMs and Lascannons weren't a part of a panzerjager battalion T&E in 1944
>>62521560Pretty poorly, see pretty much any Tau vs Imperium matchup.
>>62521560OP specifically asked how the vague "our" troops would fare against the very specific "average imperial guard regiment"
>>62519331no wonder Arkhan Land didn't want his name associated with that POS
>>62515080Coftyrans solo all no diff
>>62521570>ATGM's>just casually ignores the WW2 infantry rocket launchers >lascannon Lascannons would get completely fucking noselled by ceramic composite armor.
>>62521661Crusaders ftw.
>>62521678>Anti-Tank-GUIDED-MISSILE>M1 bazooka ROCKET LAUNCHER>Panzerfaust ROCKET LAUNCHERAre you naturally this retarded?
>>62521570>Kinetic energy>ATGM and lascannonsPick one.
>>62521678>Lascannons would get completely fucking noselled by ceramic composite armorThis is an entirely irrelevant statement out of nowhere.Its not like space shuttles are known for their battlefield applications.
>>62521692>tanks get destroyed by ww2 tech >but they use ATGM's!>calls others retarded Wew
>>62521698What the fuck are you talking about by this point
>>62521706>composite armor>the same as reentry tilesYou have to be memeing because you can't be this stupid.
>>62521681>crusaders ftw
>>62521716Its about as sensible as what you claim with your statement. Ceramics aren't entirely immune to all thermal energy.
>>62521216>scpThat shitty oc circlejerk website is a plague on the internet.
>>62521723this may shock you, but we have no idea by what mechanism that lascannons operate on
>>62521729And yet you want to just come in and say it would be nosold because you've got a chip on your shoulder about this particular series of sci-fi bullshit.
>>62521493>So at base level each guardsmen is carrying around a FAL with 50 round mags and level 4 armor across the torso and head. Some units will have and use things like modern radio equipment for each man, active camo cloaks, thermal or NVGs, advanced medical gear, all in excess of what you'd find your 11B today getting. On the other hand you could get none of that and be lucky to have a manpack radio for the whole squad. I'd say we take the middle ground.the vast majority of art and media (as well as quite a few of the books), along with the literal models, portray the average IG infantryman as being equipped along the line of a WW2 infantryman barring the laser gun and the flak armor.'Modern radio equipment for each man' is complete hogwash. Sometimes they have commbeads but they're VERY short range.>Thermal or NVGsAre around but rarely show even in top of the barrel cadian regiments, and most aren't really portrayed as having either.>advanced medical gearlol? imperial soldiers are lucky if their medic doesn't just shoot them or pump them full of suicide drugs to rush a trench with.
>>62521737No, Imperial guard medics are actual medics trying to save their lives.Suicide drugs are generally a penal legion gimmick.
>>62519302Huh. I guess modern AI would be basically magic for the Imperial Guard, wouldn't it? Forbidden dark magic. They would have no self-guided weapons, except what they've inherited from the Dark Age of Technology.
>>62521523Russ has solid turret and frontal armor that is capable of withstanding a Battle Cannon, but its rear is so poorly armored that a Heavy Stubber can disable it. The real mystery is how well its sides measure up.
>>62521779>AIAbominable Intelligence is highly illegal heretical tech
>>62515080Imperial Guard are elite troops by normal human standards. They mog every PDF by an order of magnitude. The reason they seem so hapless is because what's thrown at them is simply too powerful for regular humans.
>>62521895>The real mystery is how well its sides measure up.in-game, side armor is(was) AV13 compared to the front armors AV14, meaning hilariously thick side armor but this didnt really make much sense lore-wise, since the side armor has doors on and cutouts for the gun sponsonsand physically measuring the distance from the edge of the tracks to the bulge on the front where the driver sits means that the sides have to be relatively thin for there to be any space left inside the vehicle
>>62521903Not really. Yes, the Imperial Guard are elite compared to the PDF, but the PDF just sucks, most of the time they're African militia tier, whereas the Imperial Guard is more like Maoist Chinese human waves tier.
>>62521913PDF runs the gamut; even if it ends up full of people who have little practical field experience, they more often have functional combined arms including an air force and the home field advantage. In oceanic worlds, a PDF is 9/10 going to be better than a Guard regiment at defending.
>>62521923The biggest problem is that Imperium worlds just plain aren't designed to be self-sustainable, instead they tend to be highly specialized. An agri-world or a mining world will produce a whole lot of food and very little else, so whatever PDF they can manage to scrounge will have very poor equipment. Hive Worlds are the best at making PDFs because they have a large population and lots of factories, but their population consists of hivers which are malnourished starving illiterates.
>>62521947Running a post-apocalyptic galactic empire comprised of various rediscovered colonies (with a form of FTL that is extremely danger-prone due to involving jumps through hell) is a complicated affair. If anything the Imperium are miracle workers to be able to keep it running while constantly fighting a war on all fronts against countless different antagonistic horrors.
>>62521958>If anything the Imperium are miracle workers to be able to keep it running while constantly fighting a war on all fronts against countless different antagonistic horrors.the old canon was that the empire was on its last legs, only sheer inertia was keeping it going, the massive beuracracies they set in place kept going even without the emperor or any real higher command just from its sizeit might take 10,000 years more, big things die slowly, but it was inevitable thats changed quite a bit due to the need to sell more plastic and constant complaints that the story never went anywhere, resulting in a significant shift towards 41K
>>62521963The destruction of Cadia forming the infected axewound across the entire galacy and bringing back rowboat girlyman and his new breed of marine wank was a mistake.
>>62521898Exactly. We're not particularly impressed by, for example, a quadcopter drone that can maintain its own balance by adjusting the power to its rotors, but how would the Adeptus Mechanicus build that? They don't have programmable computers. They'd either have to rig up an analog balancing mechanism to, or include a living brain, or use some kind of antigrav propulsion that doesn't require active balancing. Any one of those would make the platform a lot less disposable. That's a critical technological deficiency that they can't even try to overcome, because trying to understand it is heresy.
>>62521898If it has an aquila on it, it's just a machine spirit and totally fine. Or maybe there's a human brain in there somewhere.
>>62521999The Adeptus Mechanicus does have programmable computers; a good chunk of their forces are drones and robots, but that stuff along with autoloaders is reserved for Tech Marines, Imperial Knights, and themselves. The rest of the Imperium can go eat a dick.
>>62521999>servo skulls with lasgun eyes are cannon >servo skulls with drop explosives could be real any time we want
>>62522001>Or maybe there's a human brain in there somewhere.Exactly so. In WH40K, humanity has a tiny problem with real AI. Real AI 100% always comes to the conclusion that humans will, somehow, destroy the universe and must be eradicated.A living robot, that is to say a lobotomized or otherwise impaired human (best case they're actually lobotomized, worst case their brains are just disconnected from their legs or whateve but they're completely aware of what happens around them), vat grown people with loudspeakers attached to their jaws, or whatever else man made horrors are completely fine as long as there is a human brain somehow involvedMachine spirits aren't AI because they're not really intelligent or capable of independent, prolonged action. Sure, a powerful machine spirit can keep going without human input for a limited amount of time, but generally they require maintenance and orders from people>>62521999The AdMech don't really innovate as much as they collect, hoarde and reproduce standard template constructs from 10k+ years ago. STCs aren't even blueprints for the final product, but instead blueprints for a assembly line that pumps out the finished product.
>>62515080>I'm curious about how our soldiers and equipment would compare to WH40K average Guard regiment.It would get absolutely shredded. Imperium is incredibly technologically advanced in spite of all the candles and rosaries.Lasgun would be able to tear through our tanks, it has incredibly high capacity and you reload it with sunlight or fire, which is fucking insane. It's just that in 40k everything is a walking tank so it just looks like a 'flashlight' in comparison.A couple of Mechanicus guys would be able to cripple our entire defense system.
>>62518898ELEVEN BARRELS OF HELL>>62519056>redditbuddy
>>62521779No. Modern day AI is not self-aware. The kind of AI that is illegal in the Imperium is self-aware AI, due to the ancient war against the Men of Iron. Our AI is just programming, algorithms and very basic machine learning, without self-awareness. The Imperium has more advanced technology than that, along with "cogitators", which are just 40k speak for computers, which are not heretical and are more advanced than our computers.Our weapons, including drones, would only be heretical because the Imperium shuns foreign or newly invented technology, with very few exceptions.Having said that, maybe the Machine Spirit they keep kvetching about is actually something akin to our version of AI.
>>62522037They venerate computers. Instead of giving a computer commands, they perform rituals to appease or compel the spirit they think dwells inside it. They're a cargo cult. How the fuck are they also developing robotics? How do people this ignorant understand any part of building one?
>>62515080Well, Imperial Guard tanks probably would be a lot slower than ours because they tend to drive at WW2 speeds.Being able to penetrate Imperial Armor would likely be hit and miss because our stuff isn't purpose built to knock out whatever their stuff is made from, so probably some cold war stuff wouldn't do too well. Their engagement ranges might also be lower than ours with some features that give them advantage on other areas, such as for example, maybe being better at pushing through minefields, resisting unguided artillery fire and taking ground thanks to being cheap and tough, but being worse at laying ambushes and on occasion, navigating through our infrastructure due to some of them going over weight limit. Our drone technology would probably be better than theirs to an extent, meaning that while Imperial Servitor based systems might be more sophisticated in performing autonomous operations, they don't have any proper cheap drones.Imperial service rifle is obviously better and flak armor probably is on par with ballistic plates, but they would have disadvantage of optics.Imperial aircraft probably shrug off anything except direct hits from anti-aircraft fire, but I would assume they get picked on radar so you can see them coming. Anything that's not an anti-aircraft missile probably struggles a bit and it's really flip of a coin whether or not their auspex picks up our stealth aircraft. Imperial Navy fighters probably have better success given advantages of being able to strike from and return to space as needed, but this is question of the guard.Overall, I would expect them to suffer hard in many battles, mostly due to cheap drones and guided munitions and other high tech stuff, but it all comes down to the grand battle plan. As much as its fun to think US cutting edge tech and cheap drones could win some battles, once scale of the conflict becomes too large, that becomes unsustainable.
>>62522210You're an idiot secondary.The imperium is incredibly ritualistic about technology (due to the Adeptus Mechanicus) yes. Before the fall humanity had ridiculously advanced tech, the AM are the most knowledgable on that lost treasure and jealously hoard the best of it for themselves.
>>62522228Overall, if Imperial Guard sent the number of regiments to match total number of armed forces on earth, the average quality of the troops and equipment would probably be on their side due to roided up troops, relatively good training and relatively good equipment.Imperial Guard would enjoy benefit of better global force projection than anyone else, which would rattle the global supply chain and thus the morale.Many countries who have beef with Russia and China would probably flip, given their government was allowed positions in the new order, which probably would mean its NATO + China + DPRK who might want to fight it out.Africa and Middle-east would probably flip and Russia would too, if only because Ukraine war has sorta left them in a place where its going to be a pretty harsh future for them either way.
>>62522248This is edited from the original image isn't it
>>62516175Night Vision is biggest flaw in Imperial lack of optics
>>62518810To be fair, much of advantage of 50 BMG is being able to penetrate while having pretty fast rate of fire.Lasgun blows chunks off due to physics of the weapon, so even if it felt like being hit by one, it's really not the same because you can't go through cover in same way.
>>62522257in the original, the good guys were wearing eggshells and wielding bananassupposedly, it was to make fun of how overly round and non-threatening good guys arethough obviously also an implicit support of the aesthetics of fascism
Poor guys get absolutely slaughtered going up against a first world force. Guard does have some logistical miracle kit, but that's just it, it's all simple, easy enough to make and ship to almost anywhere in the galaxy in ungodly quantity, and easy enough for any feudal world retard to work out at least the basics, a lot like futuristic slavshit in that regard. That also means that they're lacking in every single thing that isn't basic personal equipment. No amount of Hydras are gonna stop the PGMs and accurate counter-battery raining down on the poor guys day and night, NVGs and thermal optics would be an absolute terror, etc. If we bring in the Imperial Navy, that'd change the calculus a fair bit, but that's also cheating since orbital supremacy is pretty much an 'I win' button for most sci-fi militaries against our Earth.
>>62522285>cheatingThat's two-faced bitch-speak.If they'd be at a disadvantage because of lacking certain things we have then its not cheating if they bring in things they have that we don't.
>>62522204It's my understanding of the lore that machine spirits are indeed a 'dumb' AI that they forgot how to input prompts into; with all the pomp and circumstance overshadowing the direct manner in which we use it. They don't properly understand it, they haven't taken the control panel off in 400 years, they're afraid to turn it off because they don't know how to turn it on, and 10 seconds of vocal input is extrapolated into 6 hours of chanting and waving smoke at it. Also, wasn't there at least one Man of Iron still alive? Featured in the Blackstone Fortress, according to the fluff, he lived because humans literally forgot what Men of Iron looked like and he 'played dumb' by acting like a servitor on a mission by some Mechanicus priest and was allowed to do as he pleased. So who's to say that Machine Spirits have come to the same conclusion? They just let the humans do their thing and spit out the proper prompts when they know they're supposed to, so as to not tip their hand to the Toaster Enthusiaists. Also lore about MBT's Machine Spirit continuing to operate the tank long after the human crew was dead, running suicidal attacks at the enemy. Not speaking about daemon engines, these are loyalists humans... such an act of recklessness heavily implies a form of intelligence that is being misrepresented as patriotism.
>>62522285Orbital Supremacy means that all IG needs to do is wait until your fancy munitions and machines run out due to being spent or lack of maintenance because you won't be able to ship them anywhere except by submarine, and you won't be able able to make them anywhere except underground.Given how microprocessor production is highly centralized, if IG targets those first, either seizing them or nuking them and putting all ocean traffic under embargo, just within few decades, Earth won't have its smart weapon systems anymore and you need to turn to Imperium in event of famine.
>>62522231>You're an idiot secondary.Yes.>the AM are the most knowledgableIs that a high bar? Who are the second most knowledgeable? >jealously hoardYeah, that's pretty much what a post-apocalyptic cargo cult would do. Do they innovate? Do they demonstrably understand the operating principles of the machines they build and maintain? What do they have that they developed themselves?
>>62522320>Who are the second most knowledgeableuh, space marines I guess>Do they innovateOccationally yes, memes aside>do they demonstrate understaingmemes aside, many do, but not alot of them>what have they developednew patterns of las guns amongst other shit
>>62521723>stops most of the energy >dosen't penetrate Holy fuck your mom shouldn't have farted after getting fucked up the ass.
>>62522300'Macro-cannon shots fall, you lose to an untouchable asset' is a pretty bitchass way to end a battle. It's also pretty much the only relevant thing since Imperial Navy aircraft are all designed to dogfight above all else. Sure, they do have missiles, but the non-tabletop stats on them are pretty much non-existent.>>62522315Like I said, Imperial Navy's more or less an 'I win' button. Can't even throw ICBMs their way since it's all just going to zapped into the Warp.
>>62522334Physical projectiles aren't stopped by void shields.
>>62522320Advancements happen, the cogboys proceed to debate strenuously amongst themselves if those advancements are within the will of the cogboy god and worthy of joining the lists of accepted technology.
>>62522340I thought it was lances that couldn't be stopped by void shields, with the physical projectiles taking an express ticket to hell.
>>62522340Yes they are, what are you smoking.
>>62522340
>>62522349>>62522352No energy weapons get dumped into the warp, or else lance batteries would dominate void combat and macrocannon, torpedoes, and boarding torpedoes wouldn't fucking work.
>>62522365>energy weapon hits Anon you do know that you can WALK through Titan void shields right?
>>62522377macrocannons get stopped by void shields as do other physical impactors.bombers and torpedos pull a Dune to bypass the shielding.
>>62522377Wouldn't boarding torpedoes need a Gellar field to work?
>>62522392>purposefully ignores the obvious rockets hitting the lower portion
>>62522399nta, but if you're using boarding torpedoes in the middle of Warp travel you're either insane or the ballsiest spehss marine to ever live.
>>62522399>those were rocketsHuh, didn't look too closely. But aren't conversion fields supposed to block physical projectiles?
>>62522399No, and they aren't big enough to mount them anyway.
>>62522412Conversion fields work by converting the energy from various forms of incoming attack into bright flashes of light
>>62522409I bet the Orks do.
>>62522424in one mechanicus book I think they do actually
>>62522424Orks enjoy travelling through the warp to new battlegrounds by colonizing space hulks and waiting until they get pulled through the warp again.Fighting daemons and genestealers on the journey is what they consider keeping match-fit.
>>62522423>40k terminology Fuck I hate how muddy and convoluted 40k shit is.
>>62522445In that case it does exactly what it says on the tin.
>>62522455The Lex also has them listed as "power fields" "reflector fields" and "conversion fields".
>>62515080>I'm curious about how our soldiers and equipment would compare to WH40K average Guard regiment. Assuming the average Imperial Guard regiment is Cadians but not trained and motivated to the actual Cadian standard...I think that the Imperial Guard´s main strengths are the rough equivalent of America´s in WWII. Their equipment is solid and capable of being transported across the galaxy. It is rough around the edges in many ways, but it is solid, dependable, can be maintained easily... all important qualities for anything from comms to guns. And in some ways, it is more advanced than the tech we have on Earth: lasguns and lascannons, the sheer power of their transmissions equipment and the durability of their armor is probably superior to ours, among other things.On the other hand, their equipment and doctrines are BLUNT. Even tactically proficient Cadians, who probably are on par with the best we´ve got except they also know how to fight demons and freaking space elves, are not really equipped to leverage the "soft side" of war the way we are. Our military uses some pieces of tech that give clear advantages but you have to go up to Space Marines to find, like Blufor tracker and GPS. We also have more varied equipment, and our use of drones and guided weapons is much more prevalent. I am not sure that face to face, an Earth regiment versus an IG regiment would be a dunk on either by the other. Both have their ways to give the other a headache. Note that at the end of the day, 40k writers basically take from real life and split the content among factions. They took real life technologies, tactics and equipment, gave them a thick layer of grimdark paint, and cut it into different parcels: the IG get this, Space Marines get that, Tau get this other stuff... so it can be interesting to argue about this topic, but at the end of the day it´s figuring out a weird puzzle.
>>62515080does the IG even train or do they just get executed by the commissar as motivation before they're even given orders to die in place?
>>62522466Those are different things. The Imperium inherited alot of different field technologies from the golden age of man.Power fields are the things generated by power weapons that let them effortlessly disrupt and tear through shit.Refractor fields are standard sci-fi personal force fields, appear as blurry energy barriers around the wearer and disperse the destructive force of incoming attacks.Conversion fields are the aforementioned walking light shows that can dazzle and blind people as a side-effect.
>>62515113what's funny is when you compare to the blue aliens who have drones and mech suits and laser spotting.
>>6252123740k stopped being a parody during middlehammer
>>62520346Vietnam was lost because it was high casualties for nothing and then drawdown and peace for two years before total south Vietnam collapse.Afghanistan was almost no casualties at all and then made a deal with the Taliban to leave, Joe doesn't leave and ANA collapses without a fight and Taliban literally pulls security around the Kabul airport protecting the withdrawal from AQ.both were offensive wars that were quit. compare Ukraine or Gaza for a defensive war.
>>62518801>uponWhat does that mean?
>>62522340Macro-cannons are very much stopped by void shields, otherwise every imperial ship would dominate in naval combat since it's their primary armament
>>62515080Pretty well. IG regiments are intentionally gimped into being super specialized ever since the Horus Heresy. Some might have a tech advantage over modern armies but many IG regiments are raised from primative or developing worlds. Some Guardsmen have trained all their life to be soldiers but quite a few are just conscripts given a lasgun and a uniform and told to kill the enemy or be shot by the Commissar. The big thing the IG has is better logistics. Lasguns run on batteries, every vehicle is multifuel capable, and the super specialized nature of the IG Regiment system makes them easy to supply.
>>62515193This. >To regiments that are just drug crazed nutjobs who only do what they are told 'cause they get more drugsSalavar Chem Dogs, right?>Then you get your regiments raised from worlds where they are equipped with literal muskets.They'd at least be armed with lasguns but yes, the tactics would be positively Napoleonic.
>>62522501Depends on the regiment. Some Hiveworlds will just sweep every criminal they can find and force them into the Guard.Some Feral Worlds don't understand enough Low Gothic for anything more complex than "Go there, kill the Enemy". Some worlds have Guardsmen train literally their entire life to be soldiers. It's really all over the place.
>>62515080Wed smoke them because our tech is unironically leagues better than their trash besides body armour and small armsOn the other hand guard regiments are like fighting armies or Arnie in predator or Rico or cloned WW1 insane stormtroopersEvery man is an insane killing machine
>>62521216The imperial navy are the unironic heroes of the settingLiterally humanities only hope, fuck space MUHRINES, fuck guard, the navy is where it's at>Some may question my right to destroy a planet of ten billion souls, but those who truly understand realize I have no right to let them live.>No sacrifice is too great, and no treachery is too small.
>>62524121Pretty sure you're referring to PDF for the most part, you do get penal battalions as wellFor the most part though the guard is pretty well drilled and trained
>>62521431.45 Apostate Cleansing Pattern
>>62522377No, both macro and lance weapons are stopped by shields. Macros aren't even always ballistics (somtimes they're lasers) but the difference is that macros fire faster to batter down shields while lances fire slow (so are less effective against shields, but do more against hull).
>>62515080Completely depends on the the regiment and homeworld>Cadians, Krieg, Catachans, TanithReligious zealots who's entire life is spent either training or in active combat. Used to the worst deprivations and environments. Armed to the teeth with overscaled bullshit weapons. Commanders that are born and bred for their role and only care for victory at any cost>Some backwater PDF conscript force Commanded by local oligarch family members.Haven't been see training since the horus heresy. Armed with autoguns that any ork would throw away. Probably infiltrated by both slaaneshi cultists and genestealers.
>>62518930>It just doesn't matter much in their home series because people they face aren't using our bullet-firing pistols and rifles,Cultists with a 50% chance of using autoguns are among the 4 things you are most likely to fight as a guardsman in 40k
>>62515080They suck lmao. Even in The Fall of Cadia the best gaurd units got their assessment handed to them and threw away their airforce in like 5 minutes.
>>62515080Lasguns are FALs with 10x ammo.Heavy stubbers are M2sPlasma cannons are recoilless rifles without backblastBasilisks are WW2 howitzers40k IG is based on WW2 as the unifying influence with in-setting stupidity at WW1 and elite units up to the Vietnam War era.
>>62521709Wow, the principle behind shaped charges and EFP still work 40k years later
>>62521407>>62521475Holy shit that's a lot of manpower in a guard unit. But yeah this anon's mostly on point. Your average infantry regiment is going to get run circles around it by a ICBT. They just don't have the mobility being almost entirely on foot. I do however think the more armored a guard unit gets with mechanized and armored units absolutely tearing the US equivalent a new asshole mostly though sheer weight of numbers. They'd inflict losses, probably heavy losses but I don't think any BCT would be able to take on an armored or mechanized regiment. They're fucked if they're up against an air mobile regiment. We simply don't have enough SPAA and AAA integrated at a low enough level to combat something like that.
>>62522300>>62522315You’re assuming that the Imperial Navy will actually help the Imperial Guard which they probably won’t. The only thing the Imperial Navy loves more than seeing heretics and xenos die, is fucking over the Imperial Army.
>>62524701Depends on the guard. Some of the guard is trained, some of them are just conscripts from a medieval world that have never heard of a lasgun before in their life before being handed one. The Guard likes to claim it takes the best of the PDF, but that’s almost impossible to enforce and the PDF’s are dogshit most of the time anyways.Overall I’d put the average Imperial Guardsman as about being on par with a Russian conscript. Not the worst, but certainly not good either.
>>62521728And somehow 40k slurpers aren't? They are literally the same brand of autism except 40k charges you tons of money.
>>6252660240k has books, and arts and crafts, and in-person social interaction
>>62521728It had its moments. Delta Green always was the superior glowies vs eldritch horrors. Shame about the people running it, but I suppose that's the norm these days.
Truth be told they will be lacklusting aside from elite units because IG are more often than not the upper 10 percent of the average imperial world PDF forces which are equivalent to what we got worldwide.>What about US airforceThat's a different matter, they will have to be compared to the Imperial Navy since they are the defacto airforce branch of the Imperium, I suppose no one will try to argue about the futility of sending atmospheric fighters against spaceborne capital ships equipped with voidshields capable to endure travel near a star corona.
>>62527227>because IG are more often than not the upper 10 percent of the average imperial world PDF forces which are equivalent to what we got worldwideMost PDF forces are closer to the sort of shit you'd see in Africa instead of the wider world.
>>62526033The issue is whether the Imperium has the numbers to outmass the US. Of course if we are seen as a threat they'll send a lot of units but the Siege of Vraks had 14mil~ dead on the Imperiums side over 17 years of combat. The initial invasion involved around 200k kriegers, so their scouts are on fucking horses and they've got fewer people involved than the US had to kick Iraq out of Kuwait. To go a bit farther on how outclassed they are an Earthshaker canon is a 132mm howitzer with 15km range and 812mph muzzle velocity. You can compare that to either the m109 self propelled 155mm howitzer, range of 18-40km depending on the round, not sure on muzzle velocityOr the M777 towed 155mm artillery, which has a range of 21-40km and a muzzle velocity of 1800mph
>>62520190lmao
>>62521737Prosthetics are incredibly cheap in the Imperium given how many servitors there are just walking around. They can also grow organs in vats if they can be bothered, but usually its just some budget cybernetics.
>>62528103>Prosthetics are incredibly cheap in the Imperium given how many servitors there are just walking around.Also how there's an entire Space Marine legion whose identity revolves around giving themselves iron hands in memory of their primarch whose name meant iron hands because he had iron hands and named his legion the Iron Hands because
>>62528103They're common if you're lucky. Plenty of planets without cybernetics at all.
The rest of the world can kill millions of them but the IG will have a million more.Doesn't matter if Raptors shoot down 1000 Marauders, there will be 1000 more to take their place.
>>62528026>earthshaker>only 132mmThere is no fucking way that thing is smaller then a 8inch gun. I'm looking at my basilisk right now and i could probably drop a guardsman's head down the barrel
>>62529286>The rest of the world can kill millions of them but the IG will have a million more.Theoretically, yes.In reality, no. The Imperial Guard often loses wars having only suffered casualties in the mere millions, or even in the mere hundreds of thousands, sometimes even just tens of thousands.The simple fact is the Imperium just doesn't have the logistical capability to actually transport that many troops to any given campaign.
>>62529406>the Imperium dosen't have the logistical capability https://youtu.be/l7U93YjucD0?si=OcMqtM6iyXM8M6FVAnd that's only ONE world.
they have no qualms about using gas, nuclear, and sometimes biological weapons. their armor can stop small arms barring their own weaponry and uses what we consider advanced and expensive materials. weapons are capable of blowing away anyone in one shot or severing bod parts off.generally speaking, the advantages they have are down to the fundamentals of being able to use literally anything we'd consider immoral in conjunction to their superior equipment.
>>62518864>The Imperial Guard would legit think that we are Tau auxiliaries or technosorcerers.Thats all nice and fun until the first Titan Legion shows up.
>>62529513as other anons have pointed out, the guard suffers from a critical lack of tactical/strategic maneuverability, sustainment, and support. An infantry regiment is going to have some light mortars and a couple sentinals or chimeras while an equivalent unit on earth is going to be fully motor or mechinzed with organic fire support. It doesn't matter that in a man on man situation the guardman outguns and out armor's a russian or german or american when they can't catch up and are getting hit with medium and heavy artillery while foot marching towards a suspected position they can't be sure they are at
>>62529638then throw the fucking water out the window if we're going for a single infantry regiment of the setting because it doesnt matter
>>62529483>fan animationand?>>62529513and we have weapons today capable of blowing body parts off they're not special.>durr no qualm about using gas, nuclear, biologicalthen they will be used on them too? you know that nations that matter have those right, and can make more.
>>62515080It depends on the regiment. The average lasgun would blow us to pieces. Heavy bolters would demolish modern tanks. Guard infantry weapons are all superior to modern tools.Guard vehicles and doctrine are designed like dogshit but canonically a Leman Russ is so kind of retard-strong tank that any of our modern anti armor solutions would have trouble penetrating.Guard have space support too so orbital bombardments would likely decimate anything we bring. The fucked shit is that the Guard would probably experience enormous causalities even crippling because their doctrine is like Napoleonic and WWII warfare rolled into a retard sandwich. In one book, some Catachan is shocked that Tau have over-the-horizon weapons, like he just never imagined those could exist.
>>62522101Retard
>>62529788Russes are even more vulnerable to top attack than modern tanks given their rears are at best 8mm worth of protection.
>>625300038mm of bongs-dont-know-anything-nesium "RHA" is probably equivalent to a couple feet of steel.
>>62522392>touching an energy field that shunts off what it absorbs directly into the fucking warpyeah you have fucking fun with that anon
>>62522340Do you want me to start reading from Titianicus about titians brawling? How one Princeps prays his void shields hold as he eats massed missile fire from three other titians?
>>62522310>>62522204Machine Spirit is either the Void Dragon influence or rogue Cogitators dreamingBoth are horrible conclusions
>>62529721This is the most famous Imperial Guard artwork, now go away.
>>62530348god damn thats a lot of men coming off that transport
>>62529483>battalion sized blocks marching>can't even count how many blocksThere's probably more then an entire army group in that scene down there.On a separate note dear god i would fucking hate to be those bastards standing in formation at attention for hours waiting to board in full kit all while in promasks. It sucks wearing them for 20 minutes.
>>62530464The Tyrok Fields were a bit of a party.https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_for_Tyrok_Fields
>>62529483The Siege of Vraks had 14 million dead on the Imperium's side.The USSR suffered about 9 million combat deaths during WW2. And that was one FRONT. Not the fight for an entire planet. So...the Imperium is pretty weak in this regard. Their 'huge' battles are just...plain small.
>>62529585>Thats all nice and fun until the first Titan Legion shows up.You mean the ones the Tau was taking down with fighter-bombers that had railguns strapped to them?
>>62530464first time seeing a Tactical Genius at work?
>>62528026lmao, 40K fans and writers have no sense of scale. You're impressed by these numbers? Also who cares how big your numbers are when your supply bases get blown up and your supply lines get interdicted because you have no air support and you think autocannons are adequate for air defense (lol).
>>62530780I mean, that's why Imperium would win. They would do to you, what you did to Iraq with Imperial navy before starting out any land invasion.Also your satellites would probably go down day 1.Biggest advantage you got against Imperium is probably Drones, but you need to detach the production from global supply chain to rely on it. I am not sure US and it's armed forces can maintain the standard and capabilites they have without their global trade network, and by the time Imperium arrives, it's a question of Imperial incompetence whether you have the time to try and set up a defense on national level because it cannot be done globally.
>>62531434>Imperial navyI mean they can obviously bomb Earth from the orbit until it can no longer sustain life, and then land a single Guardsman to plant a flag in the wasteland, but I'm not sure if that gives us a fair estimation of the Guard's capabilities.
>>62520136Case in point the current war going on
>>62520355Gaunt's Ghosts is a pretty good series of novels focused on the IG.
>>62519331This image is the definition of dunning,Kruger lol. You can't compare RHAe to actual armour thickness.
>>62532348Retard
>>62515080>Postive.>Logistics.Guard are retardedly good at logistics. Their standard weapons are (by our standards) capable of penetrating most forms of light to medium armour (concrete, Lasguns apparently would do well on, but I forget the study), require no ammo, and can be recharged faster than your phone by throwing them in a fucking fire pit.These can be modified on the frontline, into versions with higher power shots, given feed packs for high power and rapid fire, they work without recoil and no bullet drop.Their vehicles and armour can be maintained relatively easily, and can run off of, or be made to run off of, practically anything (coal, old boots, wood fires etc).>Tough as shit.Frankly IG aren't regular army. Some are, but most are top half of their planet (the smart ones in the service, not the retards), and they see a crazy amount of battle by our standards. They're zealously religious, are unironically used to death, comfortable with the idea of their own death, and have lengths of experience against far harder foes than 90% of what Earth can throw at them.>Cons.>Vehicles are shit.Vehicles are designed for policework, and make mostly poor actual battlefield weapons. They've got better shit in some places than us, but a lot of their armour is unironically ww2 tier, despite carrying shit like laser cannons or cannons the width of torpedo tubes.>Lack of combined arms.This is a deliberate setting bit of lore, that regiments can't have combined arms (prevents rebellion as this makes renegade regiments vulnerable) so they're not going to be good at working together, or might lack what we consider as critical resources.Ultimately, they'd probably win with the Russian method, unironically. Because they've actually got that type of manly martyr trooper, and even those that don't use meat wave tactics (unironically the cheapest resource-wise for the Imperium), will probably be used to a higher intensity of action than irl armies are
>>62521168Mega based. Which one would be Kane?
>>62532297I loved them the only problem is that it went on so long that it eventually felt like it was losing focus as major characters were eventually killed off
It looks like the guard needs a JLTV/HMMWV equivalent. They basically don't do motorized operations at all.
>>62535185They do have units getting around by trucks and bikes, they just don't show up on the tabletop like the mechanised infantry do.
>>62533995>Their standard weapons are (by our standards) capable of penetrating most forms of light to medium armour (concrete, Lasguns apparently would do well on, but I forget the study), require no ammo, and can be recharged faster than your phone by throwing them in a fucking fire pit.Tbf a 5.56 can penetrate concrete, the lasgun DOES require power, and if you recharge it by throwing it into a fire, you both drastically reduce its lifespan and its ammo capacity and that's reserved for last ditch emergencies.>but most are top half of their planet (the smart ones in the service, not the retards), and they see a crazy amount of battle by our standards.The thing is, it's the top half of an Imperium planet...which is very, very retarded by our standards. Like, we're talking starving, illiterate, worm-ridden hivers, feudal worlders, death worlders, etc.Basically your average Guardsman looks more like pic related than a proper first world army. Also they don't see a crazy amount of battle, their average lifespan on the battlefield is 15 minutes, they see a very brief amount of battle and then they die. The ability of our weapons to reach over the horizon is considered literal fucking dark magic to the Imperium. An invasion would not go well for them.
>>62522365A FUCKING TITAN CARL!
>>62515080has anyone mentioned combat pyskers yet? cause that would make shit interesting.
imperial guard storm troopers are the coolest motherfuckers in the empire and I'm tired of pretending they're not
>>62537030Biggest and really only advantage that would give them his potentially uninterceptable comm network. There's just too few of them to really give any other large advantage
>>62520720It's just one writer, but there's a whole series of books where several regiments have 30.cal 'autocannons' (I think he means stubbers) that are basically M1919s. Standard two-person team, one humper and shooter, one ammo carrier and feeder.They seem to have around one or two per platoon.The problem with the Guard is that one of their things is that different regiments are equipped differently in order to sell toys. So you have one regt that's entirely armoured fist mechanized, one that's entirely stealth recon with every tenth guy being a sniper, one that's an entire air wing where every 'trooper' is flight crew, one which is entirely horse-mounted with grenade-tipped lances. etc etc
>>62520574>on the tabletopyou should kill yourself in real life.
