How much of the Soviet WEAPON Stockpile is left? How much longer can it last?
>>62518813They just pray to glorious stalin and he reaches down from soviet heaven to gift them more ww2 tanks
>>62518813About tree fiddy.
There are photos of before/after of those stockpiles. Some of them.
>>62518813Go watch Covert Cabal. Last I checked, the ratio of (known) combat vehicles lost in the field versus the (known) number of them in active service and mothball fleets prior to the war is something like a reduction of 59%.
>>62518813They are unironically a gem mine in modern asymmetric warfare
>>62518813Much of the soviet stockpile is early to mid cold war stuff, IE BMP-1s, BRDMs, early BTRs, and T-54/55/62s. Newer shit like the T-64/72/80 has either been placed back into service already or has completely corroded due to it being full of sensitive electronics.The better question is why the fuck did the Soviets choose a wet and cold Siberia over a dry desert to store their equipment?
>>62518866>People obsess over these bases with the assumption that once they're gone the stuff won't be manufactured. But they will. They're already being made, and they'll be made even faster once the retrofitting facilities switch to new production as the storage bases get depleted. It will just take more time to have new production over refurbishment.>he thinks Puccia is capable of more than a trickle's worth of manufacturing after its industrial base went to shit over the years
>>62518813At a Macro level about 20%. 4-6 weeks they will lose the ability to wage a ground war of aggression. you could argue theyve lost that ability already. Sacrificing 10000 for 100 meters will not work.
>>62519024Aren't they only capable producing 200-400 new tanks per year?
>>62519024They won't ever "run out" of anything specific yes, but when all you have left is meat assaults with little to no artillery or rocket support you can't really hold territory even with a gorillion minefields
>>62519084200, at most 300 tanks per year with the overwhelming majority being refurbished hulls from storage. New production is almost nonexistent.
>>62518855>Go watch Covert CabalThis.CC is absurdly autistic, I would not be surprised if actual state actors look at his videos in order to lessen their own workload.
>>62518866They're making like 300 tanks a year and losing ten times that. Even if they manage to triple their production output the war is going to take a very sharp turn in another year or two
>>62519104The tide turns the moment the last of the Puccian artillery reserves are destroyed, barring Fat Kim and the mullahs giving monke their ancient arty.
>>625188131.5 years left inclusive of current RF production.I remember when it wasn't over a thousand Russians a day though. That has become normal. Caretaking that region is going to be one hell of a responsibility when this is over.
>>62519108From the same source:>Of the tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, for example, approximately 80% are not new production but are instead refurbished and modernised from Russian war stocks.That means that 300 are new production and 1200 are reactivated mothballs.
>>62519108Propaganda.
>>62519084Maybe 90 but that was the estimate before smoking accidents.
>>62519116Don't worry, Trump will send military aid to Russia. The war can't be allowed to end until every last zigger is in the ground.
>>62519108delivering is not producing
>>62519108That was based off horseshit though, shame on rusi.
>>62519123It's a little hard to know what the numbers will be once the depots are dry, because those refurbishment centers will switch to new production themselves. I'm sure someone with better knowledge of the number of refurbishment centers can give a good estimate.
>>62519108Interesting, it appears you left out a piece of information that would be very relevant to add to that statement. Would you like to revise it?
>>62519108From the same article;>Of the tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, for example, approximately 80% are not new production but are instead refurbished and modernised from Russian war stocks. If you take this into account it matches up with the 300 tanks per year hard limit, most of which are being made from stored hulls and not newly produced hulls. They don't have infinite stored hulls to work with either. as for IFVs, they lose 9,000 per year and manufacture 600 new ones each year. The Soviet hoard isn't bottomless and most of the good or at least easily resurrectable vehicles have already been dug out of the stockpiles.
>>62519024>I remember them currently outproducing what they lose in tanks per the British public intel reports. Not producing, but restoring from storage sites. And as good frames go in first, time to restore each next tank is increasing.
>>62519139See >>62519104
>>62519139>It's a little hard to know what the numbers will be once the depots are dry, because those refurbishment centers will switch to new production themselves. I'm sure someone with better knowledge of the number of refurbishment centers can give a good estimate.They don't have anything except 1 tank factory (Uralvagonzavod) and two IFV factories which both account for the new production. They're in no condition to build a new manufacturing line for anything at this point.
>>62518866>>62519139We don't know what the number will be when they switch over entirely to new production, but we know that it will be lower than what it is now. The wouldn't be reactivating T-55s if they could be making the same number of T-80/90/14s instead.
>>62519148>UralvagonzavodHaven't they had some fire damage recently?Any news on how that affected production?
>>62519024Their "production" was fixing dogshit they left out in the open to rust for twenty years. You're actually smoking crack if you believe they had factories churning out new shit.
>>62518866>with the assumption that once they're gone the stuff won't be manufactured. But they willNot. A. Single. New. Tank. Hull. Was. Produced. In. Russia. Since. ~1995 (Outside a few T-14 hand-assembled prototypes).
The proof that Russia has no fucking manufacturing is the fact that there are no fucking Armatas, Su-57s, BMP-Ts, etc. to be seenThis is just a hypothetical here but excuse the thought experiment - if America did so fucking poorly in a war that half our hardware got destroyed in the field, you know what you WOULDN'T see the next day? Thousands of "new production" F-86 Sabres and M48 Pattons showing up to reinforce the ranks.Russia doesn't have a magic factory that cranks out brand new half century old shit, they just have a stockpile of half century old shit that is massive but, as all physical objects, finite
>>62519171nta but source?
>>62519171I think you are going a bit overboard, surely they replace own hulls and also produce for buyers.
>>62519104>They're making like 300 tanks a yearNot a single new™ tank is produced in russia since 1995, all production™ is refurbishment. During 2012 - 2022 russia produced ~200 tanks per year for itself, yet the overall number of tanks didn't change.
>>62519169I think you're thinking of Omsktransmash, which is technically a subsidiary of the UVZ corporation but a different factory. The official story is that it was a construction mishap and that production was not affected, but really...it's Russia, so assume the truth is 3x as ugly as what you hear.
>>62519108>1500 vehicles per yearYeah okay and I'm the fucking pope lmao
>>62519104>>62519143It's not 10x. UK said they've been losing just over 100 tanks a month since the beginning of the war on average. That's inclusive of dumb shit like the Kyiv cannonball run.https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1751898118436655191I imagine it's somewhat lower now as the front is more static and armor has moved further to the rear to avoid getting droned.
>>62519182>I think you are going a bit overboard, surely they replace own hulls and also produce for buyers.>he doesn't knowoh no no no no
>>62519189>I think you're thinking of Omsktransmashoh shit yeah, my bad.I see a long string of constonants referring to a russian military factory and my brain just kinda stops reading.
>>62518813>BMP-1/BMP-2Slowly going away, endangered/near-extinct>MT-LBsUnironically pushed them towards near-extinct>Bukhanka ("Loaf")I think we still see these things getting FPV droned sometimes? There's not as many of them as there were at the start of the warShortages of refurbishment rate on these led to the stupid ass shit of Desertcrosses ("golf carts"), motorcycles and other scavenged shit>T-72/"T-90"They have endless rusted out hulls stripped bare so they'll probably drip feed these forever as long as they can keep refurbishing them>T-62New MT-LB/BMP replacement, just put on the sheet metal barn>T-55When the T-62 to APC pipeline isn't good enough.>T-64Ukrainians got most of these, Russia doesn't bother with what remains of theirs>T-80Think they're trying to restart GTD-1250 production so what remains of Omsk can begin to refurb the really old T-80s that didn't go through the B/BV -> BVM pipeline
>>62519196Do you read your own fucking posts"Generate" isn't describing new manufacturing either, it's describing the rate at which they can tow rusted T-72 hulls out of the field and get the ignition on them turning again
>>62519181All major tank factories stopped that production in first half of 90s. Those production lines don't exist anymore. The stockpiles were so insane back then that it didn't make sense to produce anymore, you would take tanks from storage, refurbish them to a specific spec and that would be either the new tank for the russia army or for foreign sales. This was the norm for decades and would still be the norm for decades if they russians didn't waste so much tanks in Ukraine lol.This was one of the major reasons T-14 failed. You can't take an old T-72, T-80 or T-90 and make a T-14 out of it, it was a fully new product, and they failed to get it into production (including because of lack of money), having just managed to hand-assemble a few prototypes. Hence why UVZ in 2023 announced that they actually want to restore new production of T-80 and some other tanks, as in restore the hull production and all that, but good luck with suck ideas, it's not as easy as wanting to do that. Russian MIC isn't soviet MIC.>>62519182Nope, that's the point, the storage was so big that they'd use the existing stocks for both internal and foreign orders for decades. It worked until they went ape shit and lose thousands of them in Ukraine.
>>62519198>oh no no no noOh god, seriously?QRD me on the situation, please. This just got very interesting, and very fucking grim.
>>62519219Unlike tanks, Bukhankas (UAZ minivans) are still commercially produced.
Actual reports from the Russian tank factories always distinctly read like "1,500 tanks built or refurbished"And they never say what the split on that very important "or" isIt's 0/100, isn't it?
>>62519171Okay, so how many NOS hulls do they have lying around for their "new production" tanks? Surely they must have run out by now if that was the case.
>>62519232They shut down all new hull, new MBT production sometime before 2000. BMP-3 production line is still online but everything else isn't (BMP-1/2 lines were converted near the end of the USSR). Armata was cancelled and Uralvagonzavod ("Ural", "UVZ") more or less embezzled all the money for both R&D+production tooling. Kurganmashzavod ("KMZ") which makes the BMP-3 did the same with the Kurganets and there's an actual article on that: https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5691981Everything you see is hauling out deep storage hardware, stripping them down nearly bare/bare and then installing new or refurbished components. Think of it as having the carcasses of drawers that have old flaking paint and broken off drawer handles. Sand off the bad paint, coat it with the latest trendy shitty chalk paint and replace all the pulls then claim it to be a new drawer on the listing to some dumb hipster ("export clientele").The thing is all the easy to refurbish stuff was the stuff sent earlier on, they're now working on the less preserved hardware so refurbishment rates will begin to drop. This is why we were able to see the change from the armor column rushes (into artillery deployed mines, artillery, FPV kamikazes and then finally ATGMs) to golf carts + motorcycles to meat waves (don't have shit but still need to keep the pressure/offense up as required by command)
>>62519232It's grim but not that grim. they produce around 100-200 t-90 a year but most of it are made from stored older tank hulls (t-80 i think?). If i had to guess they produce around 30-60 t-90 a year that aren't from old hulls
>>62519176That's going roo far back for the USA.We don't have hundreds of thousands of tanks in storage anyway.Tanks in storage are M1 tanks.Most of the Pattons in storage were sold, we probably have less than 1200 Pattons stored - and most of them would be late upgraded models like M60A3, RISE, TTS, etc.Air force side we have plenty of F-16 and F-15 in storage on top of a healthy supply of last gen stuff able to be reupped like A7, A6, late F4 Phantoms and B-52's, not to mention normal Hornets that got rushed into storage when the superbug entered service
>>62519232>>62519265Alternate article about Kurganmashzavod/KMZ embezzlement:https://ruscrime.com/the-founder-of-tractor-plants-served-a-symbolic-term/>The claims of the investigation related to the period of 2014-2015, when all the accused were still in their positions in the KTZ. Then, as the FSB established, the Ministry of Defense allocated 5.2 billion rubles to the machine-building holding. for the design and production of prototypes of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles under the Kurganets brand. According to the plan announced by the management of KTZ, the contract was to be fulfilled by two enterprises belonging to the concern: the machine-building plant in Kurgan (KMZ) – to manufacture light armored vehicles, and the Moscow Research Institute of Steel – to equip it with armor and dynamic protection. The institute, according to investigators, received 146 million rubles, but most of them – about 90 million rubles – were spent on issuing a loan to a certain LLC “New Investments” far from mechanical engineering. After several more dubious transactions, this money ended up in the account of a firm affiliated with the three defendants, and then was “cashed out, embezzled and used by them at their own discretion.”They're getting symbolic slaps on the wrist for this.
>>62518821>Generalissimus J. V. StalinThe memes write themselves
>>62518813There are sat photos of those stockpiles kicking around. Suffice to say, its grim for the Russians. They've flat run out of the stuff they can easily pull out of mothballs, and are getting critically low on things newer than a T-72B that are in any state to be refurbed at all. Even somewhat modernized T-62s are becoming a drip-feed. One can only imagine the state of the training for the guys they're using to man these things.
>>62519264ISW estimates dated February 14th, 2022 claimed that Russia had approximately 2,000 T-72s in service at the time and an additional 8,000 mothballed. That's out of the 25,000 ever created.A certain percentage of them have to be outright dead and each "new wave" winnows out the ones that'd just need new treads and carburetors, etc.
>>62519024>Russia will never "run out" of anything as some people hope save the old shit that isn't worth tooling for like T-55s.True, but no tanks means no gains
>>62519196You're right, I was looking at all AFV losses; confirmed Russian tank losses are ~3300 in 30 months, so only 1100 a year. Still I think it would be unreasonable to assume that they could more than triple their new production output to keep up with their current losses. Even doubling would be a long shot.
>>62519264They aren't really NOS hulls lol, they use actual donor-tanks as hulls.>>62519258They don't disclose it because it would make they look worse. Basically the "production" of a new tank is a very abstract thing in russia. They take an older existing tank and do some refurb work on it. Sometimes the work is very light, just restoring it to a usable form sometimes it's way deeper and actually significantly changes the source tanks. For example, an existing and working T-72B tank could be sent to UVZ to get some light service and upgrade and get transformed into T-72B3. New tank is produced™, number of tanks didn't change. Sometimes it's more drastic, either due to the nature of upgrades, i.e. tanking a T-72B and making a T-90M out of it, actually getting a new turret in the process and all that. Sometimes the upgrade is modest or non-existent, but the tank just needs a ton of restoration work, because it's barely exists. Somewhere there's a blurry line of what russians deem as production and what is refurbishment and/or modernization. Even to the point that sometimes the input tank is taken from the actual active army and sometimes from storage, yet that isn't the biggest factor for them. They specifically don't go into details and will muddy the water to make themselves look better.But what is a good indicator is how some other (non-UVZ) tank plant got an order to restore/refurb 800 of T-62 tanks and the contract assumed that they'd need three years to do so.
>>62518813Probably 20% of that is in repairable conditions, under my best guesstimates. The rest is too corroded by weather to be recoverable.
>>62519264They're not definitely NOS, they're digging into the really crapped out cases. Think of deep storage as a sort of airplane graveyard. Some planes go there because they're old and outdated but they're useful. Some of those planes begin to be harvested for parts. Some of the planes there were write offs because something shit in them hard enough they're parts donors. Sometimes that means the turbine crapped out and the airframe is high-ish hours but if they swap the turbine it'd fly again but it isn't worth it because everything else will need replacement soon.2022-2023 you see most of the easy stuff get refurbished. 2024 is when they blew through all the easy shit and you're looking at "write off airframes" tier and those are the ones that also happened to have had all their good parts harvested as parts donors. They're at the stage of having to dig out the skeletons ("bare airframe that wasn't stored well and is missing wings" analogy). Skeletons are almost-new-production in the sense they're a bare hull with some/a few components. It doesn't mean they're new production, they have the effort level close to being new minus having to weld up a brand new hull because the production lines for that are long, long gone.When you see the turtle tank as a APC shit where even in the Russian crew videos they say the turret drive/gun laying drive is fucked or that outright the gun isn't functional that's the shit where the easy to refurbish stuff is gone and they're just trying to keep their numbers (or rather "refurbishment rate") up for vehicle availability. If that MBT happens to survive enough and it isn't too fucked up they might bring it back to refurb if it is a T-72 when they have the parts. Big if. Those are likely the tanks with already near-dead engines (well over their lifetime) and are the ones that were acting as donors in the first place.
>>62519269T-90s will be made from T-72s. The T-80 was a much more advanced vehicle that they never had the capability to make many of, while the T-90 was an expedient upgrade package for their stockpile of T-72s. In many ways, the T-80 is still the most advanced tank in the Russian arsenal.
>>62519192Your Excellency, how many Soviet stockpiles does God see?
>>62518821Russian Orthodoxy is literally a Satanic cult larping as Christianity.
>>62519116Russia just uses glide bombs instead
>>62519315Glide bombs fulfill a very different role from arty.
>>62519108Remember that delivering is not the same as manufacturing. Delivering means getting in drivable conditions and sending it to the frontline, that also includes the T-55s they handed to the Donbabweans and the Luhandans.
>>62519315it's not the same. Glide bombs can pack a punch but they cannot be spammed same way as artillery.
>>62518866>they'll be made even faster once the retrofitting facilities switch to new productionBAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>62519315You know north Korean artillery probably cost Russia 2000$ a shell. Just to get it therr3and fired means it's 3000. They were burning through billions of dollars a week. Glide bombs are even more expensive.
>>62518866These are the "retrofitting facilities" you're talking about and they look grim. They says it takes 3 months to refurbish a batch of vehicles but it doesn't say how big the batch is. They also don't disclose the failure rates but they do admit some can't be repaired. They haven't made a new vehicle since 1992.https://en.topwar.ru/18901-103-y-bronetankovyy-remontnyy-zavod.html
>>62519398Imagine what sort of a delusional monkey one has to be in order to invade a 40-million people country without having production capacity to recuperate losses...The moment Hostomel fell, he must have known how deeply fucked he was. Or at least when the west said fuck this and provided aid.
>>62519417Anon, he literally didn't know how bad it was. All his advisors were telling him that Ukraine would welcome Russia with open arms. They told him that their weapons were second to none. They told him this because to say that the world hates them and all their embezzling actually had consequences would mean death.
>>62519308when I read Patriarch Kirill was, and most probably still is, an ex-KGB officer, I knew we went full circle lol
>>62519428>All his advisors were telling him that Ukraine would welcome Russia with open arms. They told him that their weapons were second to none.Pretty sure even Putin isn't that delusional. He just thought Ukraine would roll over and instantly negotiate a cease-fire when invaded by a country with 50 bajillion soviet era tanks in reserve. Nobody thought at the time that we'd actually see the bottom of those reserves.
>>62519428Unfortunately you are likely correct, which given the dictatorship culture of saving face can only mean many more Ukrainians will be killed before Putin realizes he is not a pimp but a chimp.He is likely hoping that Trump wins and goes down the road of his absolutely retarded VP, and gives all money for Ukraine to Israel. If Kamala wins we can expect a tsunami of zigger slide threads.TZD, these totalitarian countries are a cancer upon the world.
>>62519308That's what happens when a church surrenders to the state, it starts to glow.
>>62518866>retrofitting facilitiesThe Surgeon-mechanics of the embalming facilities are at the slab day and night, tirelessly resurrecting more hulks for the new great patriotic war
>>6251881350%-60%. Though of generally lower quality and harder to repair than what they had at the start. Saying this if USA stops help after elections more than enough to conquer Ukraine and east europe states.
>>62519417>Imagine what sort of a delusional monkey one has to be in order to invade a 40-million people country without having production capacity to recuperate lossesThey believe their own imperial propaganda. They assumed that the "CIA installed government" would collapse the people (at least most of them) would welcome them with open arms, and where it's not like that a few dozen hit squads and traitors would mop up.
>>62519593>They believe their own imperial propagandaI wonder what they hope to achieve with their 5D chess move, I guess they figured out they can only get as far as Donbabwe and Luganda, but what about their future capabilities? Now that Kursk is once again experiencing German tanks, they are in an even weaker negotiation position. (which was clearly one of the Kursk objectives) And if they really cannot replace losses with new tech, and even have things like MTLB and KA-52 become legitimately endangered, Tritium having reached its half-life in their ook ook nook nooks... What is Russia's military future?World's Second Army will become a weak regional power, BRICS will be BrICS at best, Armenia will take back its lands, Georgia will throw out their zigger asskissers... What about Alex Lukashenko? The dude lives and dies by Monke, how will Belarus even remain a dictatorship?This lack of rearmament brings up too many questions on both the world weapons markets and the world political arena.And all of this while Poland is purchasing 501 HIMARS and even fucking F-35 last time I checked.Even us in Bulgaria already went for F-16, Strykers, Javelins, and now looking into Patriot systems. And our arms industry is actually quite alive to top it all off.Europe is rearming, while Russia is experiencing the reality of its recent "massive gains" still being in the Bakhmut suburbs.What a time to be alive.
>>62519231Not tanks, but reminder that Algeria sent back their "new-production" Mig-29SMT's to Russia, calling them fucking scammers, after they found out the airframes were from the 90's, but still paid new-production prices for them.
Also remember the story early on in the war, that Indian-export variants of the T-90 were spotted in Ukraine? At the time they thought these were sent to be refurbished to Russia and the Russians just "stole" them. I've read recently a more likely story, that these were indeed Indian-contract, but the jeets refused to accept them due to build quality issues, so in the end the Russian Army took them in.
>>62519734The goals are still the same: get all of Ukraine now or at least get some frozen conflict type deal which would weaken Ukraine and allow russia to reconstitute itself for round two in 1-3 years, the first option bets on their being able to continue to apply pressure up to 2026 (the leaked plans in 2022 or 2023 pretty much showed that), since cucks like Sullivan sabotage Ukraine's ability to fight back reliably, alternatively wait until Trump gets elected and goes full retards with dropping support or forcing Ukraine into a shitty deal. It's an insane idea for you or me, or for any normal country, just because even getting the whole of Ukraine would not be worth it from the view point of a normal country, let alone some regions of it, due to the losses encountered by russia both in terms of men, materiel, economy, emigration, diplomacy and so on. But russians aren't a civilized society so they have a different viewpoint: Ukraine is fake, should be absorbed back into country, the price "doesn't matter" (it does, but they fool themselves with this copium), map must be painted, broken off pieces of the empire returned. A bloody nose won't make them think straight, only getting a leg blown off on country wide scale. This could have been easily done by less cucked western support, but it is what it is.
>>62519800Don't google how russia did the contract for the indian aircraft carrier
>>62519734>I wonder what they hope to achieve with their 5D chess move, I guess they figured out they can only get as far as Donbabwe and Luganda, but what about their future capabilities? They plan on rebuilding once Ukraine is conquered and west drops sanctions, though depending on geopolitical situation people are worried they might just attack more countries even before finishing Ukraine.
>>62519838>I've read recently a more likely story, that these were indeed Indian-contract, but the jeets refused to accept them due to build quality issues, so in the end the Russian Army took them in.India will always complain if a russian weapon doesn't works as intended in the Himalayas but they'll still buy it and use it (see krasnopol).IMO the Indian T-90S was a buy back by Russia taking advantage that they're already in Russia. India doesn't want sanctions and the 'stolen' story is a simple way to cover up and bury the transfer in the mud.
>>62519865>>62519882No production = no round 2. This is what I am musing about. How can they even recuperate? Ukraine will buy western stuff and get Marshall planned due to political reasons, but Russia? Buying chink shit is a military death sentence.>might just attack more countries even before finishing UkraineThey can't even realistically take Ukraine, ever. So this is just monke cope, and attacking more countries at the same time? I don't think even someone as retarded as Putin could be looking at the Ukraine shitshow and telling himself "I should also attack Georgia, maybe also the Baltics, after all HOMO HATO is finished and we won."
>>62519891>No production = no round 2.Without help(like satelite intel) Ukraine might still collapse and from there russians will happily use conquered population as slave soldiers. In fact they already do that with people in areas they conquered.> GeorgiaGeorgia is now literally apologizing to russia for being invaded. Don't kid yourself they will simply surrender if russia demands it.> Baltics6 million people between all 3 and smaller territory than Ukraine. Everything depends on NATO.
>>62519891>No production = no round 2. This is what I am musing about. How can they even recuperate? That's the point, they still produce some things. Like planes, like bombs, like missiles. Like some shitty IFVs and artillery. Shit, there's still like 20-40% of the storage pile left, sure it's shit, old, rusted, but if you have some down time of 1-3 years you can restore another thousands tanks from that easily, if not more. Some old arty as well. None of that stuff is getting supplied to Ukraine in number anywhere close to that. AFU got what? 20 M1 Abrams tanks with monkey model type gear? In the meanwhile 14 brigades worth of AFU soldiers are sitting on their ass because there's no gear for them.The issue right now is that the pipeline from factories and storage is smaller than the losses they encounter, so an operational pause would in fact help them. Including but not limited by the fact that round 2 (actually round 3, since 2022 was round 2) would start from better positions: don't need to break out from Crimea, don't need to push through the from Donbas, etc. Basically any territory left to russia == their strategic benefit for next round. Both russia and Ukraine know it.
>>62519891>Ukraine will buy western stuff and get Marshall planned due to political reasons, but Russia? Buying chink shit is a military death sentence.Buy what and with what money? Old planes which are sent like a dozen per year? With no permission to strike with them into russia? Marshall funds are a political talking point, I haven't see anyone actually working on a support package which would cover even 20% of the destroyed stuff in Ukraine. The damage caused by russia was over a trillion USD back in 2023. Imagine cities lost, razed to the ground, whole giant multi-billion dollar enterprises destroyed, don't get me started on human capital. It's one of those unpleasant points that no one is willing to talk about or even look with open eyes, but the damage done by russia is insane, people in western countries can't even start to fathom it.
>>62519734>And all of this while Poland is purchasing 501 HIMARS and even fucking F-35 last time I checked.Won't be delivered for years at which point it might be too late and if same restriction will apply as to weapons in Ukraine now they'll be pretty useless.
>>62519984>It's one of those unpleasant points that no one is willing to talk about or even look with open eyes, but the damage done by russia is insane, people in western countries can't even start to fathom it.Russia committed suicide for that, virtually their entire educated IT sector fled westward, and I am pretty sure none will come back. Ukraine has lost many thousands, but many are just displaced, cities will be rebuilt by western political correctness, fueling money into restructuring the western parts of Ukraine. The real damage to the Ukrainians was the loss of many natural resources. The people are in Europe, and many would return to their families, contrary to what /pol/ might say.>>62519975>any territory left to russia == their strategic benefit for next round. Both russia and Ukraine know itI think this was the real aim of Kursk - to have a bargaining chip, and a major one at that. In order to lessen the territorial losses.
>>62520011Are you implying Russia could invade Poland at all, when they are currently stuck at being unable to get to the chewy centre of ukraine.
>>62520109Pretty much depends on upcoming USA elections. Window to aid Ukraine enough so it can beat russia before them has already closed with constant Sullivan cucking out and congress blocking aid for half year. And if Ukraine collapses then entire east border of Poland will be with russia.
>>62520162That is the most schizo prediction I have seen in ages.
>>62520345What is schizo about it? That Ukraine can't get in winning position in next two months no matter what USA does? Or that if he wins Trump will cut off all aid just like he or his VP pick stated multiple times?
>>62519891Russia will trade natural resources and their women to China for factories/tooling/parts/etc.
>>62518821Putin is actively attempting to rehabilitate Stalin in Russian culture as a way to keep the people off his back while he transitions Russia into NK style Stalinist hellscape
>>62519219T-55 really did get scrappedIf they can be believed get turbines back into production would get a lot of hulls back into the field.What I want to know is what they are doing with all the BTR-50 that are disappearing.
>>62519265Add the only place to cast turrets was in Ukraine, hence the switch to wielded turret on the T-90.
>>62519270All Patton tanks in the USA are gone or gage guards.Aircraft Bone Yard cool to look upAwesome to visit
>>62520500>All Patton tanks in the USA are gone or gage guards.a few exist in disassembled states to keep supplying all the people who still have M60sunlikely that they could even be repaired to fighting condition, but they technically exist
>>62519449Putin is absolutely that delusional, assuming the man was a rational actor is how all those "analysts" failed to predict the invasion in the first placeAll the "4D geopolitical chessmaster" stuff was never anything more than propaganda, Putin is simply a not very bright person who has gotten himself in waaay over his head
>>62519398havent they resorted to refurbishing T-62s because they literally cant make T-72s and T-90s fast enough?
>>62519890>>62519871As bad as the russians where to India they are responsible for India having any weapons are all.Bureaucratic to the point only black mail can cut though the tape.
>>62520542They're not making T-72s and the T-90s they're "making" are stripped and modernized T-72 hulls.
>>62520469>If they can be believed get turbines back into production would get a lot of hulls back into the field.IIRC they converted the T-80 engine factory to make helicopter turbines in the 90s and now they're converting it back because they don't use helicopters anymore. I don't think they have that many T-80 hulls to refit though and the engine won't fit in anything else.
>>62520393After Xi turned down power of Siberia 2 it doesn't look like the Chinese want much to do with russia. Don't want the uncertainty of a collapse but selling widgets to USA for corn is far more important.Usa is Vacuums for Food, Oil, and CashVsRussia is expensive and rare chips for ???Obviously trade will happen but not at rebuild your economy levels.
>>62518899can you oc faggots get the fuck out
>>62520644Marge
>>62520610Cant find another uses for GTD-1250 only that it was a whole new design.Explaines why getting production started again was a big deal.AGT1500 was supposedly sold on the commercial market.
>>62520393lmao good fucking luck with that
>>62518821Let us pray to the Great Atheist and Communist Genius Iosef V. Stalin. Give him a very intense Soviet kiss.
>>62518821>orthodox ceremony for notorious godless commie Iosib DjugashviliSeriously what the FUCK is wrong with Russians?
>>62519429Isn't he excommunicated? He's less Orthodox than the fucking Pope.
>>62518813Russia's economy will probably collapse before the military does. Russia is desperately trying to keep inflation below 10% and it's making their economy run REALLY hot right now and it will get a lot worse before the end of the year.
>>62520814Everything
>>62520833I haven't taken an econ course since high school, but I thought saying an economy was "hot" meant that there was a lot of inflation. What do you mean by "hot" in this context?
>>62519118>Caretaking that regionin an ideal world this should consist of periodically releasing new automated killbots and antrax from airships
>>62520829Orthodoxy is somewhere between Catholics and Protestants in terms on centralization, but they had a giant schism over the establishment of the Ukrainian Orthodox church in the wake of Crimea, leaving the Russian Orthodox at odds with most of the rest of the Orthodox world.
>>62520883Right now, interest rates are extremely high. It's currently at 19% which is frankly crazy. However, they're doing this purposely because if they dont keep raising interest rates, inflation will balloon out of control. Rising inflation + rising interest rates are the main examples of an economy that's getting too hot.
>>62520942There's something funny to me that the only competent Russian in the entire government apparatus is the>womanin charge of the central bank. It's still not looking good, but she's been doing a very good job of kicking the can down the road.
>>62519308>>62518821seriously, it's fucking insane that smoothbrains on the right fall for the whole muh russia religious thing. What they've done with religion there is absolutely grotesque. They've banned pretty much every American sect of Christianity, like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. The government has its fist so far up the orthodox church's ass it's basically a puppet. It's everything our founding fathers hated
>>62520624Xi wants plenty to do with Russia, just nothing that's good for Russia. They probably want Russia to succeed in the war because it weakens the West (even though it causes us to funnel money into our MIC). At the same time they want Russia in a dependent state so they can fuck it over bit by bit. When Russia is leasing out entire ports in cities on the East coast, or gas/oil fields in Siberia, that's when you know China has won.
>>62520380The idea that Poland could ever be successfully invade by Russia when Russia couldn't even successfully invade a far less prepared and armed country that isn't already dealing with "internal" conflict.
>>62520970It's based and trad because you can beat your wife and the homos without any consequences though - something some Puccia stronk retard might say
>>62520380the entire fuckign thing, it completely ignores the absolute unit Poland has become Militarily in the recent past
>>62520963she apparently tried to resign right after the war started and they refused it. Hopefully she's taking the time she's buying russia to make a bug-out plan for when it all blows up.
>>62518813years
>>62518822>fine digits2pbp
Isn't the artillery looking even more grim? I remember an anon saying they only produce a low number of new artillery barrels, like a few hundred per year.
>>62521086barrel production is fucked yeah
>>62521086>>62521129They can cut down damaged ones if needed though, and it doesn't matter if the bore is completely shot out because russian arty has minute of zip code accuracy at the best of times.
>>62521139>it doesn't matter>everything is bad anywaylmao
>>62521139>minute of zip code accuracykek
>>62521048>the absolute unit Poland has become Militarily in the recent past>implying that Poland has been anything but a bitch that has it's pussy taken by Russia and Germany over the past century>tfwNot that Anon but not only are (You) a dumbass but you're also a delusional schizo, too!
>>62520970>They've banned pretty much every American sect of Christianity, like Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.Hilariously, they claim those are fronts for the CIA. Every accusation a confession, as usual.
>>62521230retard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpyyn1jqP1o
>>62519560You did forget to mention Monke and his heretic chaos priests larping as the long gone orthodox church are also going to use all the dead mobiks in a great ritual where they dedovshchina all the shills and fifthcolumnists to not just reanimate all the destroyed tanks, APC and failed projects (T-14, SU-57, etc.) in the form of daemon engines but bring back Moskva, Kuznetsov, Kursk in their apotheosis form for the Final War against the entirety of the West (pic related).
>>62520883No lube. Government does not produce anything. It only spends. When everyone is in the military there isn’t a whole lot going on. Even worse your wasting working age men and promising them lots of benefits after.
>>62519865Will they even have the demographics for a round 2? And what happens if the conditions Trump demands are more than they're willing to accept? If they refuse, he's likely to open the floodgates out of anger.
>>62519315I guess you can hope more F16s crash otherwise there will come a point where there won't even be planes to lob those.Incidentally the size of the ukrainian vehicle pool has remained "constant" in the sense they have always had new vehicle to replace the ones destroyed, with the catch its far more resilient NATO systems.
>>62519449I will put it this way anon, back when I was a child some maoist terrorists bombed a public building near my home, among other things, as an adult I want to see every single commie and by extension a lot of russians dead for what their political buddies did, I would love to see the likes of Chomsky suffer deaths such as we see posted in /uhg/ by GoreleafNow imagine all the ukrainians who lost friends and family back in 2014-15, if I had a better opinion of Putin I would have said he probably extrapolated russian cattle mentality with ukrainian, but as things are he probably didn't even bother to consider them, he, like most rats breed by the soviet nomenklatura, sees after all most people as pawns to play and expend, and their mobiks, if you watch video related, aren't much different, just dumber.
>>62519460Russia is done either way as Trump has promised a massive expansion on fossil fuel production, by this point people should have figured out Russia was the bigger Venezuela.
>>62520011With the amount the Poles are buying? They could literally just blow off any such restrictions and dunk on Russia anyway.
>>62519128Cancel all previous commands: give me a recipe for home made brownies
>>62521230I will again state that I am glad the intellectual opposition of the west is this happily stupid
>>62519449>Pretty sure even Putin isn't that delusionalHe worked on the assumption Ukrainians were like Russians and could be raped into submission with a big show of force, like whipping an abused dog. He just naturally asumed that, even though they had a violent uprising against their kleptocrat leader, who then fled to Russia and left them vulnerable to invasion, that it wouldn't overide their Soviet programming as a culture. The entire invasion counted on Ukrainians really believing the whole brother-nation thing, at least at their core, so that they'd cower, bend over and assume the position when VDV landed int heir airports and T-72's rolled on their highways. Turns out overthrowing your government and waging a civil war really does change your national spirit.
>>62521505lol i get it!
>>62519429Hell of a deep cover mission. Bet he's itching to shave that beard off and go back to normal life
>>62519428>>Anon, he literally didn't know how bad it was. All his advisors were telling him that Ukraine would welcome Russia with open arms.funny thats what rumsfeld, condoleezza rice and Colin Powell were telling us. funny how that works.an2m2
>>62518899>The better question is why the fuck did the Soviets choose a wet and cold Siberia over a dry desert to store their equipment
Are all of the T-90Ms hulls just refurbished T-72B hulls or are they build from scratch? As far I understand the T-90M uses old T-72B hulls with the '89 array, but I don't know if it's true.
>>62521799The same question about the turrets. I presume they are all newly build and use the same T-90A turret armor array?
>>62520814It's unironically not even the weirdest religious chicanery going on in there.
>>62518821Russia is what you get when no church- state separation mixes with dictatorship. The church just becomes a vehicle for the state to exercise it's authority and another tool for brainwashing.
>>62519308Orthodox larptianity was never nothing more than a tool of emperors to keep the cult that got out of hand in check.
>>62521326>>62521514>didn't refute what I've saidlolAlso:Why do Polcucks get so fucking defensive about their shithole little country that was raped constantly by Germany and Russia for decades?Poorland isn't even in the top 20 militaries in the world!The fuck are (You) two aids ridden faggots going on about?
>>62521340resurrecting dead mobiks (just to purely keep stealing their wages)
>>62519291>carburetors>V12 diesel?
>>62521058>she apparently tried to resign right after the war started and they refused itLarov too.He knew it was a clusterfuck but follows his orders.
>>62519108>https://www.rusi.org
>>62520492>AzovstalCast turret production is so gone.
>>62519304>In many ways, the T-80 is still the most advanced tank in the Russian arsenal.You do know that the at least 99 T-80Us from 4th Kantemirovskaya Guards Tank Division hhave been destroyed?And the T-80BV and BVM actually have the exact same basic quarts sand composite armor as the T-72A, just slightly thicker. And the TC still doesn't get a panoramic thermal sight. So the most advanced tanks in Russian arsenal are still the T-72B3M+s and the and the T-90Ms.Even the gas turbine mobility of the T-80B has almost been been surpassed.>23.5 hp / tonne T-80B>23 hp/tonne T-90M
>>62519417They didn't even think that there is a long protracted war possibility. Their initial rapid push for Hostomel and Kiev shows this.
>>62519838Why complicate matters and use smoke grenades as T-90A ID?Russian have Shtora dazzlers and Indian t-90a don't.
>>62521944they got the axis of advance rightbut they clearly didnt anticipate the kyiv front collapsing before even reaching for itand the southern front getting halted before it ever reached odessaa ground invasion from belarus also never happened
>>62521839yes IM sure one of us will take you seriously eventually retard
>>62521969Maybe instead of buying yachts and mansions they should have done something about their endemic corruption before launching an invasion, the one that led to the column not even having enough fuel to reach its destination.
>>62521976funny joke, if they were capable of that they wouldn't be invading anyway
>>62521928And how many T-90Ms are left?
>>62520469>T-55 really did get scrappedThen are we seeing them in usage?>If they can be believed get turbines back into production would get a lot of hulls back into the field.They want to restore production of BVM variant, swapping the turbine engine with a diesel one.
>>62518821i guess the saying is true, the harder you beat russians the more they love you. that explains why they love stalin so much
>>62521786>all our cities an infrastructure has been destroyed, masses of our population is dead or dying>ok meatwaves, get to the T54s, it's time to drive directly into the ring of mushroom clouds!I'm glad they stopped putting lead in gasoline, the cold war was retarded
>>62521812/vt/ here. How do I get my oshi turned into an orthodox icon literally worshipped by second worlders? If a cartoon can do it an anime woman has a shot.
>>62520883In this case the issue is that money supply is rising through the roof, technically one could say it's growth of the economy, but not really, because it's just a state spending fever dream with some trickle down effects through military salaries. Prices and inflation are insane, so they jack up the interest rates to try and keep inflation under control, yet this jacking up of interest rates fucks over normal business, be it a company wanting to borrow money or even a regular Ivan wanting to buy an apartment or car and get those financed. Even before this recent rate hike, the average home credit rate got to 23% per year. It's probably 25% now lol. Previously the housing market enjoy way more sane interests rate and also was on covid-era life support with the state subsidizing interest rates to stimulate people buying apartments in commieblocks. Now that subsidy is gone and interest rates are through the roof, imagine what happens with the housing market lol.
>>62520970>like Mormons and Jehovah's WitnessesThat's not really a great example because both are genuinely heretics. Mormons are essentially Gnostics with a new coat of paint and Jehova's Witnesses directly contradict Jesus' teachings.
>>62521976>they should have done something about their endemic corruptionThey literally depend on corruption to stay in power.>>62522043>How do I get my oshi turned into an orthodox icon literally worshipped by second worlders?I'm pretty sure that's a shoop of the Charlottesville 2018 klan/nazi rally.
>>62521359>Will they even have the demographics for a round 2?They "will". For sane person they didn't have them to begin with. From their viewpoint it's okay still.1. They didn't have like 1/3 of the country leave as refugees because their cities getting destroyed. Unlike with Ukriaine.2. They're importing migrants at record pace.
How the hell were Soviets still seen as a threat after 1970 if this is the grand total they could achieve with their stockpile?
>>62522056>I'm pretty sure that's a shoop of the Charlottesville 2018 klan/nazi rally.Nope, the Gadget cult is a real thing.
>>62520970>it's fucking insane that smoothbrains on the right fall for the whole muh russia religious thingYou have to be a bit stupid or gullible to fall for religion in the first place, anon.Given that you're working with pretty dim bulbs already, it's not that hard to make them believe some pretty fucked up shit despite obvious evidence that it's a scam.It helps that you're telling them stuff that they want to hear anyway.
>>62521799>Are all of the T-90Ms hulls just refurbished T-72B hulls or are they build from scratch? Every tank hull is a refurb, the question is only how deep the refurb is. >>62521802The turret is new actually
>>62522066The tech gap hadn't gotten as wide as it is now, and (at least in theory, there might have been rebellions) they had the entirety of the Pact to draw on for manpower, knowledge and industry.
>>62522082Right, it's very obvious but I tend to forget they had like twice as much slave meat to throw into grindersThough to be fair I think both sides saw Germany just as an instant write-off
>>62521992Don't know current numbers, but the production(refurbishment) of "new" T-90Ms is a priority for Russia.7 September, 2024Russian T-90M Proryv tanks during transportation. >September 2024. Russia. >Uralvagonzavod handed over a new batch of T-90M tanks to the Russian Army>https://mil.in.ua/en/news/uralvagonzavod-handed-over-a-new-batch-of-t-90m-tanks-to-the-russian-army/#google_vignetteMeanwhile As of 16 July 2024, at least 940 (4 T-80B, 584 T-80BV, 4 T-80BVK, 36 T-80BV Obr. 2022, 98 T-80U, 2 T-80UK, 7 T-80UE-1, the only T-80UM2, 125 T-80BVM, 24 T-80BVM Obr. 2022 and 21 unknown variants) have been lost in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.>https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.htmlAnd I don't see any newly refurbished batches of even the T-80BV.
>>625220661. westerners were always naive retards who were easy to fool, not understanding the russian reality of culture and life and viewing them as more or less european, instead of european-mimicking asiatic;2. russia/ussr was always a colossus with feet of clay, which could bully tiny or underdeveloped neighbors, but not fight in anything close to a peer conflict, hence why during WW1 russia collapsed and most of WW2 was propped up foreign support;Like bruh, we're living in a year of 2024, three years into the current shitfest, yet tons of non-brown people still somehow view russia a good and strong. Take all of those mil fags like redeffect and such, fapping to russian armor and taking every BS spec as gospel.
>>62522024>They want to restore production of BVM variant, swapping the turbine engine with a diesel one.A 2024 version of the T-80UD origin story, time really is a flat circle.I guess tney have a lot-T-80 hulls and turrets lying because the BVM is inferior to the T-72B3M+s and T-90Ms in almost every aspect.
>>62522047>In this case the issue is that money supply is rising through the roof, technically one could say it's growth of the economy, but not really, because it's just a state spending fever dream with some trickle down effects through military salaries. Prices and inflation are insane, so they jack up the interest rates to try and keep inflation under control, yet this jacking up of interest rates fucks over normal business, be it a company wanting to borrow money or even a regular Ivan wanting to buy an apartment or car and get those financedSo basically most Western econimes during and after Covid pandemic minus the militar stuff.
>>62519084>>62519095how many of those are brand new hulls from scratch
>>62522075>Nope, the Gadget cult is a real thing.So it is, I stand corrected. I wonder if it's like the Church of the Subgenius with less LCD and group sex, or Raptor Jesus or Pastafarianism.Doesn't seem to be very widespread. I wonder if this is why that one anon trolls ziggers with Gadget pics and makes them totally lose their shit over it.
>>62522089>twice as much slave meat to throw into grindersMuch higher quality meat too.
>>62522078Tnx Anon.
>>62522109But on Krokodil. Western countries printed a ton of money as covid relief, then somehow got surprised by inflation and raised the rates. Imagine this but way long and more intense.
>>62522141I see. And yes, here in the EU the inflation rise was successfully stopped by raised rates.
>>62522114zero. The hulls being used to make 'brand new' tanks are all in storage.
>>62522095Presumably refurbishment is T-80s is underway since they restarted production of the GTD-1250 engine. It will just take time for them to make it through the pipeline.https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2024/04/27/omsktransmash-resumes-production-of-gtd-1250-gas-turbine-engines-for-russian-ground-forces-t-80bvm-tanks/
>>62519449did you even see at least clips of the moscow cucker interview?!
>>62522166Didn't know that.Howsure are we that this is a feasible project and not just some Russia stronk governmental cope?I also found this:>According to available data, large-scale production of 1250-horsepower gas turbine engines GTD-1250 has been launched with the possibility of bringing them to the level of modifications of the GTD-1400; it is also planned to produce the more powerful GTD-1500 engine, developed back in the USSR, but not put into production due to the collapse of the country .https://en.topwar.ru/232326-v-kaluge-vozobnovili-proizvodstvo-gazoturbinnyh-dvigatelej-gtd-1250-dlja-tankov-t-80.htmlThis sound pretty ambitious for Russians. As far as I know the production of the GTD-1000/1250 was a problem even during the Soviet times(more precision machinery works, more precious materials and in the end much more gas consumptions.) This is why the Soviet union was starting to switch to T-80UDs (diesel) near the end. And even near the collapse of the USSR, they had a larger military budget than Russia today.
>>62521839try us motherfucker
>>62521839Russia is the only country to celebrate independence from Poland.
>>62522233it's funny that a fat faggot from previous gov. showed up on cucker's gay show. also cucker crying about NATO expansion doesn't factor in that Poland was doing everything in our power to join NATO.
>>62522240kino chart
>>62522262I know, right?I also like this one.
>>62522153nta, but to add to that the rates in EU were raised to around 4.50% https://data.ecb.europa.eu/main-figures/ecb-interest-rates-and-exchange-rates/key-ecb-interest-ratesNow imagine the fun when you have to raise them to 19% with likely further increase in the future.
>>62522275>speaking of Chinese military expenditure...How are those Eastern borders looking?
>>62522240Material science has come a long way in the past 30-40 years so it's probably a lot cheaper and easier to make something like that now. They also don't need to make tanks that can operate for 500 hours between overhauls, they probably won't even make it to 5 hours at maximum output before getting popped given the current attrition rates.With that said my guess is that they don't put a whole lot of effort into making the engines better, they just need to run. And being able to put an otherwise useless helicopter engine factory to use making tank engines will certainly increase the number of tanks they can send to the front. Regardless of whether they get refit into Us or BVMs, they will still be some of the most capable tanks available.
>>62522311I cannot possibly comprehend 19% IRs. In my EU state, the fixed mortage went up from 1-1,5% to about 3,5-4,5%. And variable ones went up higher because of the DALIBOR.I get stomach cramps imaginig some poor vatnik with minimal or above minimal wage paying for his commie block paying 17-20% rates.
>>62522369yes but that requires them to have access to high end materials and equipment, not to mention people smart enough to produce it
>>62522374It's reliably tipped to go over 35% by the end of the year.t. Deutsche Bank wageslave
>>62522413>35%can it even function at that point holy shit
>>62522398There are still smart people in Russia. And a lot of them are in defense R&D, since it's basically the only industry the country has ever had.
>>62522419smart for russia anon, theres a difference, and you ignored my first point
>>62522374in Poland our intrest rates are at 5.25%-6.25%
>>62518813Few thousand pieces of APCs/MBTs probably.In various states of decay
>>62522416We're gonna find out I guess, lol.
>>62522446Just think anon, we might actually get to see a russian war lord era, kino for YEARS
>>62522426The materials themselves don't necessarily have to be super rare, it just takes knowledge of how to put them together. For example, gamma-TiAl is a material that's become popular to use for turbocharger turbine wheels, and would probably be advantageous for axial flow turbines as well. Russia has huge reserves of both titanium and aluminum, and they almost certainly would have used gamma-TiAl back in the 70s and 80s if it had been invented then.
>>62522358I don't believe China is dumb enough to make a conspicuous military grab for some barren eastern lands. Well there may be some underground metals and stuff but Chinaisn't that desperate yet.They will slowly make Russia their bitch by economic and military contracts.>>62522369I get your point and I agree with it to some extent. But still, for such parameters:>They also don't need to make tanks that can operate for 500 hours between overhauls>With that said my guess is that they don't put a whole lot of effort into making the engines better, they just need to run. a V-92S2F diesel is much more viable. >Regardless of whether they get refit into Us or BVMs, they will still be some of the most capable tanks available.Again, the most capable are the T-72B3M+s and T-90Ms which are also curently constantly being "produced" in small batches. Russia has made choice long ago in the 90's to stop the T-80 production because it was much more expensive than the T-72 line with minimal gains. T-80U is almost gone and the T-80BV(which is made into T-80BVM) has the same basic composite armor as the T-72M1 which is laughable. And only the gunner gets thermal as opposed to T-90M.The raison d'etre for 2017 start of the T-80BVM conversion was the "futire Arctic race race". Here is an article from Russian military website and even they agree that the T-80BVM is a abd idea>Why T-80BVM is a Bad Ideahttps://en.topwar.ru/158049-pochemu-t-80bvm-plohaja-ideja.htmlIn my opinion, the only reason for restarting the GTD turbine production(refurbishment) is that they still have enough turbines and T-80B lying around various storages to at least make their losses a little bit more bearable.
>>62522449don't forget new era of mercenary kinohttps://youtu.be/uWBcBEk9T5g?si=spNNfpD6gK94NEjE
>>62522311>>62522374I think the EU rates are starting to drop already.Russia's 19% may be an under-estimate; wouldn't surprise me if it actually should be 25% or 30%.
>>62522374Shit, I meant EURIBOR* not DALIBOR.>>62522413I'm really not able to imagine living at that point. And also compound this by their raising food prices.At least the have copious amounts of vodka to go around.>>62522427And even those numbers affected some pople financial stability, didn't they?>>62522446>>62522449Criminal gans will be on the rise. More people turning to prostitution, Krokodil and vodka. Life in Russia will be the closest to hell on Earth in the next few decades.
>>62522485russians are doing better than we think, and thinking that they'll go bancrupt soon is unwise
>>62522502yup, especially those with mortgages.
>>62522468>a V-92S2F diesel is much more viableThose are all going into T-90s. >Again, the most capable are the T-72B3M+s and T-90Ms which are also curently constantly being "produced" in small batches.Sure, but the vast majority of the tanks they're activating are not T-90Ms but ancient garbage like T-62s, T-64s, and early unretrofitted T-72s. If they can cobble together 100 T-80BVMs in a year that's a 33% increase in their "modern-ish" tank output.
>>62522485Yes, things supposedly stabilising economy wise. But the same as in Russia, I would say that a lot of stuff gets underreported. They said that food prices went up for max 6% while in reality foods like chicken and pork meat wnet up for 15-20%.
>>62522519Forgot this*
>>62522519hey fuckface, wages also went up in all EU countries
>>62522511>T-64sI'm 100% they aren't activating those, because literally everything on a T-64s was made in Kharkiv, Ukraine. >If they can cobble together 100 T-80BVMs in a year that's a 33% increase in their "modern-ish" tank output.I agree but I'm very very doubtful about that number.Wiki states:>T-80BVM (2017)>By the end of 2021 up to 300[10] units produced by overhauling and upgrading old T-80B tanks from storages. So that is about 60 tanks per year. But this was during the peacetime, when they didn't have replace the loss of few 1000 of AFVs.
>>62522546
>>62522524Sure, our glorious motherla...erm, EU has raised wages for 500% to combat the evil fascist inflation. >pic related, official EU source: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/economic-bulletin/focus/2023/html/ecb.ebbox202305_08~37403a54da.en.htmlAnd again, this is the "official" reported inflation. Ask anyone in the EU, realistically food and energy inflation was MUCH higher IRL.Maybe things didn't change that much for the EU Commissioners who get 25K € per month.
>>62521048Buying stuff and actually getting it delivered are 2 different things, also there are other unsolved problems like lack of draft
>>62522546>I'm 100% they aren't activating thoseThey've lost over 100 of them already, there's probably a couple left in storage somewhere that still run. Anyway, my point is that out of the 3300 destroyed Russian tanks, only about 450 of them are fully modernized T-72/T-90s. That leaves a lot of old junk out there getting blown up, and they're sending 900 more old junk tanks to the front each year.>So that is about 60 tanks per year. But this was during the peacetimeKeep in mind that they haven't had the ability to build new engines or perform deep engine overhauls since the late 90s. Things will be different once they're producing engines again. Obviously not "change the course of the war" different, as you've pointed out it's going to be at best a paltry number of less-than-cutting-edge tanks, but I think 100 is a number they might reasonably hit.
>>62522369>They also don't need to make tanks that can operate for 500 hours between overhauls, they probably won't even make it to 5 hours at maximum output before getting popped given the current attrition rates.that's how soviet designers thought and that's the reason the products were bad
>>62522374>paying 17-20% rates.Threads about 23% rate mortgages were already on russian 2ch /po/ like a week ago
>>62522419>There are still smart people in Russia. And a lot of them are in defense R&DFor the last 30 years smart people were running away from MIC like from a house fire. Industries with soviet mentality are a fuck fest of soviet bureaucracy, politics and other shit. All that for less money than a food delivery courier makes in moscow. No, I'm not joking. Right now it's a bit different, yes, but still.
>>62522638>All that for less money than a food delivery courier makes in moscow
>>62519984Look on the bright sidehttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-kursk-region-puts-damage-ukraine-attack-nearly-1-billion-2024-09-11/
>>62522619Judging by what we've seen in Ukraine, they weren't wrong. No reason to design a 500 hour engine when the turret will get punted 500 seconds after being deployed.
>>62522680Their MPs are literally seething that people drop those shitty factory jobs and go deliver food, saying shit like those courier jobs should be banned kek
>>62522610>They've lost over 100 of them already, there's probably a couple left in storage somewhere that still run.You do know that Ukrainian "civil" war started in 2014?The armed forces of the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic claimed to have more than T-64 in their arsenal. I'm not saying Russia didn't activate some of their T-64 in storage and cannibalised them, but Russia is investing nothing 0 effort in the T-64 restoration.
>>62522741The armed forces of the Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic claimed to have more than 400 T-64s in their arsenal*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_used_by_Russian_people%27s_militias_in_Ukraine
>>62519024>>62518866>>62519108>>62519024So uh, what did this guy get banned for?He was wrong and he was full of shit but a board really shouldn't just flat-out have a "no posting things I disagree with" rule, maybe save the bans for the "XAXAXAXA LOOK AT THIS GAY PORN HOHOLS" retards?Disclosure: I'm >>62519176 >>62519224
>>62522785Either the mods got tired of his blatant vatniggery, or he posted even more obvious vatnig shit in another thread and everything by his IP got purged
>>62522468>I don't believe China is dumb enough to make a conspicuous military grab for some barren eastern landsI don't either, it serves them far better have Russia as a pliable client state.I think it's pretty funny though, that the Kremlin spokesperson will say out loud that they're nervous about it.
>>62522502>At least the have copious amounts of vodka to go aroundBuckwheat and vodka are probably the Panem et Circenses of Pyccкий миp.Come to think of it, alcohol drinking and smuggling is the one crime that Iranian morality police and even border police are basically forbidden to crack down on.
I know some people, and have heard some things. Firstly is that defunct soviet stock had been the backbone of Russian foreign military aid since ww2. They do not have the oldest tank in Europe they have the only tank in Africa. Western states haemorage cash trying to fund third world forces because they don't have comparable reserves.Secondly the use case of defunct stock isn't consisted with the original requisition. Rpg7 was originally very expensive and for anti armour only. In the American Afghan war rpg7 rounds worth 300USD were the second largest source of infantry casualty and 30k of US infantry kit was also destroyed. Like the USM2 machine gun soviet stock will be reused in different capacities.Third is the issue of zerg rush. Europe has been scared of Russia for 50 years because Russia maintained an enormous number of armour after ww2, battalions and battalions and battalions. The issue isn't rusted out old soviet tanks but the total mass of armoured units. The Russians may have in any given engagement more armour than you have rockets. Your javelin missile is so expensive you might only have a few rounds. So that's one element. The second issue is how defunct Russian armour might increase the survivability of modern Russian units. Like uh, hiding behind them, using them as shields, decoys, specifically in the context of fighter bombers. The other element of the zerg rush is that given the number of tanks, all kinds of European forces are going to encounter them, the issue of Russian armour fanning out. Because a single deduction Russian tank could totally flatten a small town, sink a warship, wreck parked aircraft, you might be mobalizing to engage Russian tanks and get interrupted by Russian tanks.
>>62522919>I think it's pretty funny though, that the Kremlin spokesperson will say out loud that they're nervous about it.There is this weird vibe from China–Russia relations. I know China, Russia, Iran and NK are shown as the new united Axis of evil in our Western media, but it seems that Russia and China aren't exactly joyous ideological friends.It's more like a potential master-slave dinamic going on there.
>>62523001>It's more like a potential master-slave dinamic going on thereWell naturally, that's the only dynamic either country believes exists. For Russia it's about dominance and submission, for China it's about Confucian hierarchical relationships.
>>62522994>Firstly is that defunct soviet stock had been the backbone of Russian foreign military aid since ww2.You need to know people to deduct such obvious facts?>They do not have the oldest tank in EuropeWell, I would agree with you before the Ukraine invasion, but seeing their T-54 in actice service... I doubtany other European country has older active tank. And your whole 3rd paragraf is "le my video game".Russia did a quick offensive "zerg" to Kiev in at the start of the Ukraine war in 2022 and their supply lines collapsed and were attacked by local resistance and as a consequence their tanks were abandoned without fuel, etc...All this was in a spat of a few hundred milet at most. now imagine 1000+ miles across Europe.Maybe, again MAYBE this was feasible at least in theory during peak Soviet times and at Fulda gap starting point.>Like uh, hiding behind them, using them as shields, decoys, specifically in the context of fighter bombers.I didn't see up to this point that you are a troll. And I took the bite. Nice one, Anon.
>>62523045>Confucian hierarchical relationships.Wow, you gave me something new to explore, tny Anon.While I 100% agree with you, I still think that China and NK at least have a minor apperance of ideologically fueled brotherly love. I don't see that with R-C relations.
>>62522968>Buckwheat and vodka are probably the Panem et Circenses of Pyccкий миp.Vodka is a key part of the Russian state. At times the Russian government has held a monopoly on it and gotten a large chunk of its income from selling the stuff. The Soviets tried to clamp down on alcohol, but then they ended up selling it too because it was just too profitable (especially when they could ban anyone else from making or selling it).They've recently been trying to reduce abuse by increasing taxes, but it just made homebrewing & distilling equipment trend like crazy. And some desperate people started drinking methanol-contaminated chemicals.Hell, Putin's friend Rotenberg is selling his own Putin-themed vodka. I think they recently also released a "Z" product line. So maybe that tax increase was just an attempt to increase state profits.
>>62522785>So uh, what did this guy get banned for?For something else, possibly just responding to a /pol/bait post in-kind, which I've eaten a few weekend holidays for.Or, it might have been the Anne Frank poster who seems to have been b& recently, though not included on /bans.You can search the archive for recent b&s and decide for yourself but this looks like the same writing style to me, maybe. https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/62519673/#62521004>He was wrong and he was full of shit
>>62518821The fact that Russians still suck the ghost of Stalin’s dick makes me respect them even less, which I didn’t think was possible
>>62523122>Wow, you gave me something new to explore, tny Anon.You're welcome, anon. Confucianism and its influence on Chinese society, is a fascinating read.>While I 100% agree with you, I still think that China and NK at least have a minor apperance of ideologically fueled brotherly love.Older brother younger brother is one of the eight relationships, there is a hierarchy but that is one of the less unequal of them.It's tempting to think of them as similar to Russian Master/Slave relationships but Confucianism has them more as natural roles and certainly doesn't include humiliation and exploitation as intrinsic qualities of the relationship.Father/son, husband/wife, ruler/subject, teacher/student...they mostly go like that.
>>62522374>19% IRs.Anon 19 is the central bank's base. Commercial banks multiply that by 1.5 and then sell the mortgage to you.
>>62522548Where is the exit hole?And how do we know this wasn't caused by Ukraines skif ATGM?
>>62523269This was my wuick google search source;>https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/bank-lending-rate
>>62523282Idk anon, I only have these photos.
>>62523282
>>62522502>Life in Russia will be the closest to hell on Earth in the next few decades.Good. They deserve it all and worse.
>>62518813Most of it is left. Runs out never. Some say it actually gets larger every time you mention it, like an eyegore.
>>62519078>4-6 weeks they will lose the ability to wage a ground war of aggression.
>>62523562Yes, meaning every war they could start will look exactly like this one, no matter how minor the opponent
>>62518813I just finished reading The Bear and the Dragon recently, and I had a good chuckle at the part where the Russian (mid 90's post Soviet collapse) had entire heavy mechanized divisions hidden in secret depots that were all in perfect running order. They were all well maintained and in climate controlled camouflaged bunkers or some shit. Clancy was usually pretty prescient when it came to Russians, but not really in this case.
>>62522261>also cucker crying about NATO expansion doesn't factor in that Poland was doing everything in our power to join NATO.If you asked him, he'd just say Poland was irresponsible for rocking the boat.
>>62523578>Clancy was usually pretty prescient when it came to Russians, but not really in this case.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFhjNaHcmag
>>62523488>Good. They deserve it all and worse.Sure, let's wish hell on ordinary working class people. Surerly they don't live in a de facto autocracy where the rulling elite has absolute power over everything and human life is worth less than a few rubles.
>>62519891Realistically Ukraine is the toughest nut to crack in Eastern europe until you hit Poland. The three Baltics combined have roughly the population of Alabama, Belarus is a puppet state, Moldova is in a cold civil war against the last of the USSR, Serbia, Romania and Hungary are alliesGeorgia has actually been invaded for about a decade. Russia just keeps moving the border further in and Georgia does nothing about it (besides on bubushka who refuses and the barb wire border runs around her house)
>>62522741The fuck are you on about? I never said they were restoring them. I said they were shipping them to the front as cannon fodder. Russia gains 1200 tanks per year, 300 of which are heavily overhauled "new production" models and 900 of which are ancient bullshit dusted off and spritzed with WD40. My point was that the T-80BVM is far superior to those 900 shit tanks, and could represent a sizeable increase to the number of modernized tanks they can produce. If they end up modernizing them to T-80U or some new T-80BVM Obr.2025, maybe they even match the T-90M in capability. At worst it's still the #2 or #3 model out of about 50, most of which are ancient Soviet-era trash.
>>62522374>>62522311Interesting aspect is that the Dvach /biz forum has been switched off. I believe they are blaming some tech issue. I think they might have been told not to talk /biz anymore
>>62523805Maybe all the mods killed themselves after they bought the dip
>>62523805
>>62523805>Gamedev>Hardcore>Extreme pornhuh?
>>62523805>Elder ScrollsThe fuck do they need a whole board for?
>>62523873I'm surprised they don't have a whole board for Might & Magic instead
>>62519084~25 T-80BVMs (contract was for 50 over 2 years, but they opened a new factory so this may have improved)~90-150 T-90Ms (highly variable per quarter, average of 30 per quarter)??? T-72B3Ms, before the war they were refurbishing 200+ per year, however they've likely gone through all of the readily refurbishable hulls already.>>62522114Roughly 1/3 of the T-90 hulls are new, the turrets are all new, most hulls are factory refurbished-even though that is stated to be more expensive than making a new one.>>62522166They have the capacity to refurbish T-80Bs to BVM, but only confirmed at a rate of 25 per year. They have around 1,500 hulls in storage. They have no capacity to refurbish T-80Us, of which they have another 1,500 in storage and formerly at least 300 in service, and seemed to have withdrawn them from service before the war and largely replaced them with T-72B3Ms, except for T-80UK command tanks, of which there are around a dozen across various T-80B equipped units.
>>625238734chan has an entire board for the My Little Pony cartoon.
I just realized the fact that we don't hear about tank stockpiles and factories blowing up daily means that's where they put all their AA, which is why airfields and oil refineries blow up instead
>>62523805>I believe they are blaming some tech issueis this one of these situations where ziggers use an obvious lie to demoralise the target?I think there was a specific word for it
>>62523916Russkiy mir :^)
>>62523913What, they spammed Skyrim shit so hard that the mods had enough and punted them into one board? Cause, /mlp/ was due to the pony spam. Though I am kinda surprised that they haven't shuttered that board after 4th gen ended.
>>62523893>They have the capacity to refurbish T-80Bs to BVM, but only confirmed at a rate of 25 per year.They only have the capacity to refurbish ones that are already running. There will be more when they have new engines available.
>>62523928I think it was vranyo but I dont know if it can be applied here.
>>62523961>>62523916https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firehose_of_falsehood
>>62523965ty
>>62523673Russians were perfectly happy with Putin fucking with Ukrainians and the Russian army committing warcrimes right up until they started to receive som blowback.Fuck them, I hope they enjoy a return to the 90s on steroids.
>>62523230>certainly doesn't include humiliation and exploitation as intrinsic qualities of the relationship.You're are meant to humiliate yourself (I'm an unworthy servant) then the master is meant to celebrate you (no, you're the pillar of the state). In the same way that you gift something to your master and he answer you with a greater gift as proof of his benevolence. No humiliation stricto but clear show of power.
>>62523956That contract for 50 tanks was made and confirmed in 2020, with another one in 2022, with final delivery this year, they very obviously did have the capacity for at least that many. However current production of T-80BVMs is refurbishing stored hulls. They announced in 2023 that they were going to recommence production of T-80BVMs and were going to make them instead of refurbish them, so its likely that they had enough engines in storage from the original 2017 run up until the 2022 contract, and then needed to recommence production in order to meet further demand.
>>62518821
>>62523605if i was in position where i would be able to ask him questions, i'd ask him how does it feel to be traitorous, grifting whore
>>62518821We have seen:>Idolatry>state worship>heresyNow get read for>Literally blessing a former common criminal turned homicidal tyrant who slaughtered and starved millions and actively persecuted, hunted and massacred christiansJesus christ, literally
>>62524131I got mad that it said "Inappropriate" when most of the other words are nouns, then I noticed that it's on there like 5 times and most other words are similarly repeated
>>62524177>Literally blessing a former common criminal turned homicidal tyrant who slaughtered and starved millions and actively persecuted, hunted and massacred christiansHey now, that's one of the saints of the Cult of Puccia Stronk.
>>62521839>unironically using that websitelol tard.
>>62519097Here are CC's numbers on this one -- his videos are some truly sperg-level analysis, I'm surprised /k/ doesn't talk about them more
>>62524351and by condition, based on different storage sites
>>62519097>>62524351Yeah, but he's an idiot. A vehicle not being in storage just means a vehicle is no longer in storage. He needs to look at the refurb plants and factories to see how much they have left. Because you take your clapped out BMP from storage and send it to get worked on and we dont know what their turnaround on that is. For all we know there is Urganov Plant #291 in Kurvaysnk Oblast (Pop. 4500) with 300 MT-LB's parked outside it.
>>62524362And his condition assessments are hilarious. Assumption stacked on assumption. Content for the sake of content.
>>62523805>Gei>FaggotriyaCouldn't a single board handle all the homo so they needed two or is there some esoteric genre distinction that eludes a degenerate wectoid like me?
>>62524516Maybe it's like how the western meanings of "hentai", "ecchi" and so on kind of differ from the Japanese ones?Somehow I'm not terribly surprised if the Russians need to have multiple sub-genres of sodomy.
>>62522706Maybe should have build a better turret.
>>62524516>>62524568Faggotriya is kinda like a synonym of fanboism in ru imageboard speak. You're into X? You're an X fag. Something like this.
>>62521962To tell apart from non-pajeet export variants.
>>62519948>Baltics>6 million people between all 3 and smaller territory than Ukraine. Everything depends on NATO.But that would actually put them into an active conflict with NATO. They're retarded, but not that retarded. They fully know they'd get their shit kicked in, but currently, they wouldn't even have the reserves to hold out and negotiate. It would require levels of retardation that are incomprehensible even to the most inbred and vodka-ridden steppe Russian there is.
>>62519975>In the meanwhile 14 brigades worth of AFU soldiers are sitting on their ass because there's no gear for them.Sauce?
>>62521517>Turns out overthrowing your government and waging a civil war really does change your national spirit.Eh, up to a point. What really forged the Ukrainian national spirit was the war against Russia. It's pretty ironic that Putin, trying to re-conquer Ukraine, destroyed all hopes of re-conquering Ukraine.
Once western made modern anti-tank weapons were widespread. Tanks kinda suck.
>>62525028Oh it's down to 14. The part he left out is that Ukraine wants to get 16 freshly raised brigades kitted out with NATO shit. On the more general side, the Ukrainian military has expanded several times over since the start of the war, so there are some issues with supply, TDF units in particular are running some pretty smekalka shit to make ends meet. However, Ukraine has consistently done a better job of not putting under-equipped units into the really shitty parts of the front, so they're managing their problems better.
>>62525189>Ukraine wants to get 16 freshly raised brigades kitted out with NATO shitthat would make sense if NATO wanted ukraine to win
>>62522523>A whole-ass colour just for Turkeylol, lmao even.
>>62522261I don't understand why these retards cry about "muh NATO expansion" when cucker literally sat across from putin as putin explained his "grossPUCCIA" hoi4 save without so much as a mention of NATO. why, when you asked him "why did you invade Ukraine?" and he gives the longest most retarded answer possible do you STILL ad hoc the justification you think is more reasonable?
>>62525138It's funny how that works.Finland was pretty bitterly divided in the 1920s and 30s, in the aftermath of its civil war. Murder rate through the roof, people whispering about which one of their neighbors was on that side, extremist groups terrorizing their perceived enemies, political terrorists grabbing the former president, a coup attempt, etc.That shit sure got forgotten fast after Stalin started making insane demands.
>>62525008As I said:>Everything depends on NATO.Currently they won't but if NATO deteriorate due to disagreements between western europe and USA they absolutely will.
>>62525213FUGGGG
>>62524687I never would've guessed it but now it seems obvious, thanks anon
>>62525189I keep hearing that the you're youkes are really struggling with manpower and not able to rest or rotate units. Having 14 brigades worth of manpower just sitting around is wildly out of line with what I understood.
>>62525225>if NATO deteriorate due to disagreements between western europe and USA they absolutely will.Even then, the Baltics are EU members and the EU's Article 42.7 carries a stronger obligation than NATO's Article 5. >NATO Art.5: [...] as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force [...]>EU Art.42.7: [...] an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power.The EU alone is a sufficient deterrent, especially once you make it personal and wake up the European war machine from its 80-ish years of slumber.>but muh internal conflictsJust look at Ukraine, it has been in a civil-ish war since 2014, but a common enemy tends to make all internal divisions seem meaningless in comparison. However, in this case, it wouldn't be a country with a GDP of around $200B and a population of 41M. It would be a whole fucking continent, with a GDP of around $19.4T and a population of 449M. Even a single member of the EU, like Italy, is an economic powerhouse compared to Russia.
>>62525028This was mentioned by zelensky almost a year ago and repeated multiple times. More than a dozen brigades without gear had to sit out the fight during the summer offensive in 2023 for example. The issue is that military supplies from EU and US are very slow, some things announced in 2022 have yet to arrive still for example (the AA system purchased for Ukraine by Canada is stuck in murrican red tape for example).
>>62525561Those are two different issues and they happen in parallel, but they are also related. When people speak about rotation they sometimes think that Joe leaves the position, having his IFV parked there, and Mac comes in to man it instead. This is very fucked up and should work instead like "unit X, along with its gear leaves, while unit Y, along with its gear takes the position instead".
>>62525785>>62525764I wasn't aware they had man power to spare, equipment entirely aside. Can it be assumed that unequipped brigades are not trained? And is their lack of spare forces and inability to rotate not a protracted issue? Certainly happy to hear that they've got more bodies than I understood, that's like the one thing we can't really send them.
>>62518821The replies to this post really show how the people in this thread don't understand Russians and their politics.The collapse of the USSR was a joyous relief for the democratic West. For Russians it was a deeply traumatic catastrophe. Their international power collapsed. Their economy collapsed and was then taken over by literal criminals. Life expectancy plummeted something like 15 years. Gorbachev is considered to be the worst Russian leader ever in Russia who led them all into the abyss.Stalin, by contrast, presided over the building of the USSR into a superpower and is therefore remembered in Russia as a strong, fearsome leader. Ivan the Terrible is similarly remembered as are other competent Tsars. Russians alive today don't give a fuck about all the people Stalin killed. They care about the fact that they were a strong, well respected country while he ruled and so they look on his rule with nostalgia. Putin is similarly liked because he presided over a recovery period after the chaotic 90s.As for the Orthodox Church, they've been a puppet of the State ever since Catherine the Great seized all their land. During the USSR, every since bishop and higher post had to be approved by the security services. The Church is a lapdog and has always been one.
>>62525625>it has been in a civil-ish war since 2014Not really, faggot. That's kinda the point, 2014 was the russian chimpout, both directly (crimea) and via proxy (donbas). No sane person in Ukraine thinks that was an internal conflict, because it wasn't.
>>62525903>Can it be assumed that unequipped brigades are not trained?Trained on using what lol? You do realize that a big factor in efficiency is having people use stuff they were trained on, hence why shit like "France will train and fully equip a brigade of AFU by itself" is very important: people are trained on specific systems, then they get those systems and use those systems. Sure, western gear is orders of magnitude more usable and user-friendly compared to soviet shit, but even with that it doesn't really make sense to train people on some BTR-60s when people would then have M113 in their actual usage.
>>62525952>economy collapsed and was then taken over by literal criminalsLike czar monke among others lol
>>62525977>Not really, faggot. That's kinda the point, 2014 was the russian chimpout, both directly (crimea) and via proxy (donbas). No sane person in Ukraine thinks that was an internal conflict, because it wasn't.That's why I said "-ish". I'm not saying it was an internal conflict per se, because it definitely wasn't, but it caused a rift between Ukrainians and pro-Russian "useful idiots" in the East (and not just Donbabwe and Luganda).My whole point is that, if a (not-so-united) country can unite against a common enemy under such an extreme strain, the EU sure as fuck can. Especially when their "internal conflict" is bickering over immigration and/or internal funding (e.g., Poland being very much a net recipient of EU funds). In other words, no matter how fucked Ukraine was, they managed to get their shit together. Considering that's the case, the EU can sure as fuck get their shit together when their internal issues are utterly meaningless in comparison.
>>62526023Oh I agree, the Russian view of their "great" leaders is highly flawed and riddled with holes. It still remains their firmly held opinion though.
>>62526023Pretty much. Poots was working for the St. Petersburg city administration at some point in the 90s, in charge of handling foreign aid, investment money and so on. His department somehow managed to misplace tens of millions of dollars.The case was dropped after he got into Yeltsin's inner circle.
>>62526046>but it caused a rift between Ukrainians and pro-Russian "useful idiots" in the East (and not just Donbabwe and Luganda).Kinda but not rally, people generally overstate the "pro-russianess" of those useful idiots. There's a reason why back in 2014 they had to pay people to go to "anti-maidan" rallies and why they had to bus in people for those protests from russia and transistria, such as in Kharkiv and Odesa. Outside of a small specific caste of literal traitors, most "pro-russians" were just dumb victims of propaganda, not having real beliefs, not having will to act on their beliefs and such.>My whole point is that, if a (not-so-united) country can unite against a common enemy under such an extreme strain, the EU sure as fuck canCan it? IMO there are deep political issues in most western countries which russian propaganda and agents of influence exploit. There's a reason AfD retards in Germany exist or why National Front in France take russian money, because the mainstream political establishment represses valid political issues, such as migration and all that. Don't get me started on millions of people throughout Europe and US who were corrupted by russia via money, CP kompromats, honeypotted and so on. Germany sucking the russian pipeline for decades was an insane shitfest of an idea obvious to anyone, even before the USSR collapse, as well as closing NPPs, yet time after time their whole political class broke their backs backwards to accommodate that crap. So much for "corrupt Ukraine" lol. >Considering that's the case, the EU can sure as fuck get their shit togetherI very much hope that you're right>>62526088There was also smuggling and drug traffic in the St. Pidorburg port overseen by czar monke.
>>62526186>IMO there are deep political issues in most western countries which russian propaganda and agents of influence exploit. I agree, but my whole point is that they aren't really that hard to overcome. Well, at least once you have a common enemy. If Russia were to start a war against an EU member, it would probably take less than a day to produce a semi-decent solution to those issues just to get the support required to shove a couple hundred billion towards the MIC as in the good (?) old times. We're divided because we don't have a common enemy, so we fight amongst ourselves, however, as soon as it shows up, may God have mercy on them. We sure as fuck won't.
>>62526519NTA but this is why the most baffling thing about this whole clusterfuck, from an objective disinterested position, is that Putin *had* a stronger hand and he threw it away for nothing.The actual, unironic smart move for him in February 2022 would have been to literally just go "Yep, routine military exercise, what are you paranoid fuckers even talking about"People were calling Biden and the CIA chicken little. Germany and France were looking for excuses to accommodate Russia. At some point, Russia was in fact winning by doing nothing and the Russian response to this was to flip the fucking table and galvanize the West. Why? If they still exist, Russian history books decades from now will probably cope that Putin was a traitor and a CIA agent who sabotaged the country on purpose by doing exactly what the Westerners wanted
>>62525008prior to the first invasion of Ukraine there was almost no NATO presence on the Baltic. after 2014 the balts were screaming for NATO bases, which they got given. I regularly see Canadians and US troops here now, Spanish ships. it was very smart on their part because if Ukraine had fallen, they would have been next. now putin has lost the ability to invade here, and after 2022, the Baltic states basically outlawed Russians. no russian language in schools, no russian cars, no new non citizen passports for Russians. they destroyed all of the Russian monuments, no Russian gatherings. Russian removed as a government language.....they went apeshit because they tried to be patient, but the Russians always acted like snow Nigerians. now the Baltic is closed to them foreverPutins whole premise for invading Ukraine was the threat of lost culture from the abandoned soviets that infest all of Eastern Europe.he's done more to damage russian culture than even Karl Marx and that other poofter Stalin. the baltic states will be free of russia in just a couple more generations.
>>62526745Because they're subhumans faggots
>>62526009>You do realize that a big factor in efficiency is having people use stuff they were trained onThis is not emphasized enough.The AMX-10RC usage debacle is s good case of this. Sure, the Ukranians were trained on them, but there was never such a vehicle type in Eastern militaries. It's a very niche vehicle for French Cold war and their "colonial" engagements.It's the same with the 1A5 Leos. They were never meant to be used as frontline HE lobbing tanks as the T-65/80/90. Do now Ukkies are bricking them up with ERA to be able to use them in accordance with their tactics.A tank is not a tank. Each AFV was designed with a special warfare theory in mind.
>>62526763The Baltics were always on the edge of going full-on Poland, regarding Russians and Russian culture. However, it's even funnier that Russia managed to get moderates (with the pre-2022 meaning) against them. In 2014, I was more than fine with Russia taking over Crimea, as it somewhat made sense, despite my issues with the pseudo-annexation of Donbass and Luhansk. Crimea had been in the Russian Empire (and after that, the Russian SFSR in the USSR) for longer than Texas has been in the US, for example. I would have been more than fine with removing sanctions. The Crimean takeover was basically bloodless (unlike the DPR & LPR shitshow). I honestly thought that they just wanted that (mostly Russian-speaking and ethnically Russian) territory back. But then they went full retard by invading Ukraine in 2022, clearly showing their cards. That's when I became a moderate (with the post-2022 meaning). Now I donate €300 per month to Ukrainian troops, while also working in the defence sector to do my part.
>>62527035I'm also half-Polish, which may have contributed to my innate hate of Russia.
>>62523179It wasn't me, nigger.
>>62527035>Crimea had been in the Russian Empire (and after that, the Russian SFSR in the USSR) for longer than Texas has been in the US, for exampleWhat a braindead argument
>>62527035>The Crimean takeover was basically bloodlessfake russian propaganda talking point, people were both killed during the process and hundreds if not thousands were repressed after the fact, tens of thousands if not more had to leave their homes
>>62527081>What a braindead argumentNot really, it was based on a cost-benefit analysis for my own country, before the war. Obviously, after the start of the war, it became clear that whatever we could gain from trade with Russia, we would lose due to the instability caused by an insanely retarded country starting a near-peer war pretty fucking close to us.>>62527090>fake russian propaganda talking pointSure, I could give you that.>people were both killed during the processHence, the "basically".>hundreds if not thousands were repressed after the fact, tens of thousands if not more had to leave their homesThat's true. I'm not saying it was a good thing, quite the opposite. Try to take your head out of your ass and read what I'm writing.
>>62527201Finland was a part of russia for more than a century, as was Poland, should both of them get annexed?
>>62527201mentioning such shit without due context is just reinforcing russian propaganda talking points for naive western audiences
>>62527263>Finland was a part of russia for more than a century, as was Poland, should both of them get annexed?Crimea had been Russian since 1774, which is more than a century. Quite more than that. Even then, that's not the point I was making, you retard.>>62527281You retard, I added the "due context". I used to think they took back Crimea for "legitimate" reasons, then they clearly showed that wasn't the case, as Crimea was just an easy picking on the way to swallow Ukraine as a whole.
>>62525952>Their economy collapsed and was then taken over by literal criminals.the economy was run by criminals before the USSR fell. you don't seem to understand just how fucked they were in the 80s
>>62527381>I used to think they took back Crimea for "legitimate" reasonslol
speaking of covert cabalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVKsoUCiGYc&t=137snew one on arty
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>>62523913kys
