This is the most innovative (for its time) firearm ever made and it's not even close. Extremely underrated.
>>62519673That's cool, anon. But I feel like most non-tourists on /k/ are aware.
>>62519673yes, a little bit of me wishes that WW2 was delayed by 5 years just so we could get some more modern weaponry. >Assault rifles>Infantry fighting vehicles>nuclear weapons
>>62519809>mecha
>>62519673>blocks your path
>>62519673How were they trained to use stg's in ww2? Like rifles, smgs or a mix of both?
>Guns that were lauded for their combat performance in WWII and saw extensive use in combat for decades after WWII:The M1 carbine.>Guns that were not reputed for their combat performance in WWII and are only praised by wehraboos and contrarian internet experts:The StG 44.Innovation means nothing if it just don't shoot well. Sorry, Jerry.
>>62519894Look up digital battlefield tours on youtube. He has a video on the Sturmzug. For details get Karst's book about it with a translation of the Wehrmacht regulations of a Sturmzug.
>>62519906The Stg44 shoots well to this day, anon.Very pleasant, very controllable and effective at any realistic combat range.>contrarianThat's you.
>>62519917>The Stg44 shoots well to this day, anon.Feel free to post yours.
>>62519933Nice try, glowie.
>>62519673Why the fuck did they chamber this thing in a completely new cartridge while their logistics and production was already gigafucked?
>>62519933post your M1 anon
>>62519943The cartridge makes the gun.If it makes you feel better, Hitler's initial opposition was based on the same concern, but he changes his mind once he talked to the troops using it.
>>62519906>Innovation means nothinguh huh, it only spawned the creation of the entire AK family of rifles, and through the AK line, it's furthering development of ARs, unbeknownst to you and most ARfags.300blk wouldn't exist without 7.6x398.6 blackout is another new round that is also basically identical to another round from the AK family, the 9x39ARfags aren't even aware
>>62519962>nooo you have to believe me!>hugo schmeisser was the father of the AK!>it's also somehow totally responsible for ARs too!lol do wehraboos really?>ARfags aren't even awareanybody who has spent 5min on this board has heard this repeated ad nauseum for years, glad you're enjoying your first summer.
>>62519673>the most innovativeThat's not the Colt Paterson
>>62519673>Extremely underrated.Everyone and their fucking mother knows how influential the STG 44 was
>>62520009>>it's also somehow totally responsible for ARs too!NTA but yes, the ARs are a direct result of Americans seeing the Stg44, hence why they share some of the nifty features, even if the action is different.
>>62519673>Extremely underratedHuh? Since when? Anyone who knows anything about it obsess over it. Anyone who has shot it is in love with it. It influenced the G3, the AR10 and the AK47, it's by no means underrated.If anything it suffers most from the fact that it was here and gone in terms of small arms but that happens when you introduce a new rifle toward the end of a war you end up losing.Are you trying to be hipster here? Don't forget to mention how the AR18 is underrated too.
>>62520390>the ARs are a direct result of Americans seeing the Stg44,the M16 was convergent evolution towards intermediate rounds after poor full-auto performance on select-fire rifles
>>62520489Wrong, retard.
>>62520472You might wanna read the thread.
>>62519906I love the M1 and its my favorite gun to shoot and I can point shoot headshots at 50 yards. But the STG has ideal fire rate and controllability if the STG was made by the US in M1 carbine numbers it would be the best gun of all time.
>>62519962We're aware and just don't give a shit. Meme cartridges don't represent a significant advance in technology. There have always been meme cartridges.
>>62519894If I recall correctly it was introduced to the battlefield faster than units could be trained on it's true potential and many used it simply as a rifle to the dismay of command.
>>62520796Nah, I just glance at OP's post then look at pics then skip the rest and provide my opinion, it's the most valuable one anyway and if you don't reply to this post your mother will die in her sleep
>>62520873>and many used it simply as a rifle to the dismay of command.they were actively trained to fire single shots most of the time and then only burst at close rangemostly due to ammo shortages, 8mm K was still a new round, of the two divisions that got them, they had to keep one regiment each with K98s
>>62520790the gun has more features with a johnson (recoil spring in line with the action, the bolt) than with an stg44 lurk moar faggot :^)
>>62519917>in the thick of combat>fall and land on your wunderwaffle>cheap stamped metal bends and its unusable>get killed by Soviet peasant with garbage rod Sucks to suck
>>62520919see >>62520390Subhuman nigger.>>62521004I've been wondering where you were lately.
>>62521024You realize that the G3, famous for being extremely sturdy, is also made of stamped metal, right?Stamped metal doesn't have to be fragile if you do it right and Germans had a lot more experience with it than anybody else. Ironically from toy production.
>>62519673>StG44>Not sideways nazi BARIt's a shame how much attention the mediocre StG gets from a bunch of people just because it was in call of duty. It's just an upscaled SMG in an intermediate caliber, big whoopdedoo.
>>62519809I personally wish it started a couple years earlier>widespread biplane vs monoplane action>bombers hold a minor edge>AT rifles still highly relevant>light tanks still good in direct combat
>>62521072o7
>>62519906I realize this is a troll post but the StG44 was found to be quite reliable in troop trials and was loved by soldiers that received it. Here's the report to prove it.A Leutnant Dr. Werner Hahlweg led a series of trials in occupied Greece with 20 MP44s in July and August of 1944 as a part of an internal test by the Technisches Versuchskommando WaA/Versuchsgruppe Wapruf 2(Technical Test Dept of the WaA/Test group 2). The trials consisted of a mix of ERMA and Haenel manufactured MP44s.Trial 1>Dusting of the weapons without inserted magazines transported by vehicle:>a) 2 within the vehicle>b) 2 fastened outside the vehicle>c) 2 carried on the vehicle's trailer>Temperature: 35.2 C>Ammo: 360 rounds PistPatr44>Type of Road: poorly maintained asphalt road and unpaved dirt road, 60km>Test firing: 5 rounds individual fire, 3 short bursts, rest sustained fire>Date: July 31, 1944>Duration: 11:00-16:00Results of Trial 1>Haenel 1444, slight fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4132, slight fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1516, medium fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4218, medium fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1103, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, jammed case, other flawless function>ERMA 4032, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctionsTrial 2>Further dusting of weapons used in trial 1(not cleaned) with inserted magazines, plus 2 additional weapons>Date: August 1, 1944>Duration: 09.30h - 14.00h>Temperature: 34.5C>Type of Road: Unpaved dirt roads, 50km>Ammo: 480 Rounds PistPatr44>Test Firing: Same as Trial 1
>>62521198(2/?)Results of Trial 2>Haenel 1444, slight fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4132, slight fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1516, medium fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4218, medium fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1103, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, shots 1-5 flawless, 6-7 bolt not locked, 8-60 malfunctions>ERMA 4032, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2020, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, shots 2-3 stuck cases, 4-30 no malfunctions, 31-33 case not ejected, 34-60 no malfunctions>ERMA 4170, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctionsTrial 3>a)further dusting of weapons used in Trials 1 & 2, weapons were stored thereafter>b)Dusting of 2 additional weapons on vehicles with test firing after>Date: August 2, 1944>Duration: 09.30h-15.00h>Temperature: 30.1C>Ammo: 120 rounds PistPatr44>Road: Same as Trial 2>Test Firing: Same as Trials 1 & 2Results of Trial 3>Haenel 2196, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, shots 1-3 case not ejected, 4-30 no malfunctions (catridges slightly oiled), Magazine 2 no malfunctions (cartridges not oiled)>ERMA 4373, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, shots 1-4 case not ejected, 5-30 no malfunctions (cartridges slightly oiled), Magazine 2 no malfunctions (cartridges not oiled)>all other weapons storedTrial 4>Muddying of clean weapons>Date: August 2, 1944>Duration: 14.00h-16.00h>Temperature: 30.5C>Ammo: 270 rounds PistPatr44Results of Trial 4>Haenel 2425, heavy fouling(sprinkling of bolt parts with wet mud), 60 rounds, during the first 5 shots, motion of bolt impeded, cartridges not fed. After slight oiling of the sliding surface of the bolt, the mud loosened and further shots could be fired without malfunctions>ERMA 4344, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, same as Haenel 2425>Haenel 9160, slight fouling(sprinkling of receiver with wet mud in area of the bolt), 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4533, slight fouling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions
>>625212063/?Trial 5>Muddying of dusty weapons>Date: August 3, 1944>Duration: 14.00h-16.00h>Temperature: 32.4C>Ammo: 300 rounds PistPatr44Results of Trial 5>ERMA 4533, heavy fouling(sprinkling of bolt parts with wet mud), 60 rounds, no malfunctions in individual fire; hard bolt motion in burst fire>Haenel 9929, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, same as ERMA 4533>Haenel 9160, slight fouling(sprinkling of receiver with wet mud in area of the bolt), 60 rounds, bolt not comletely locked; after slight oiling, function was flawless>ERMA 4344, slight fouling, 60 rounds, same as Haenel 9160>Haenel 2425, slight fouling, 60 rounds, same as Haenel 9160Trial 6>a)Test firing of some of the stored weapons from Trial 3>b)Fouling of these weapons with sand followed by test firing>c)Sprinkling with water of the remaining stored weapons followed by test firing>Date: August 3, 1944>Duration: 14.00h-16.00h>Temperature: 32.4C>Ammo: 360 rounds PistPatr44Results of Trial 6>Haenel 1103, stored for 2 days after dustings of trial 3, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4032, same as Haenel 1103, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1103, after third firing test, weapon was sanded heavily(means lots of sand applied), and then test fired, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4032, same as above, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4170, stored for a day after trial 3, sprinkled with water, and then test fired, 60 rounds, after several loading motions by hand and lightly oiling, function was flawless>Haenel 2020, same procedure as ERMA 4170, 60 rounds, Magazine 1-hard bolt motion, Magazine 2-weapon and cartridges slightly oiled, no malfunctions
>>625212134/?Trial 7>a)Dusting of weapons on vehicle with following firing test>b)Sprinkling of water on weapons with following firing test>Date: August 7, 1944>Duration: 09.00h-15.00h>Temperature: 26.8C>Ammo: 510 rounds PistPatr44>Dusting: medium; wet dust which did not get too far into the weapon>Sprinkling: heavy>Road: Poorly maintained asphalt road, unpaved dirt road, 60km>Test firing: 5 rounds individual fire, 3 short bursts, rest sustained fireResults of Trial 7>a)>Haenel 9160, medium dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2425, medium dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4532, medium dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4218, medium dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>b)>Haenel 9160, heavy sprinkling, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2425, heavy sprinkling, 60 rounds, individual fire no malfunctions; jamming of bolt in burst fire, no malfunctions after lightly oiling the sliding surface of bolt>ERMA 4532, heavy sprinkling, 90 rounds, Magazine 1:faulty function of the bolt due to hard bolt motion, Magazine 2: After oiling of cartridges, 4 malfunctions of bolt, Magazine 3: After oiling of bolt, flawless function>ERMA 4218, heavy sprinkling, 60 rounds, Magazine 1: individual fire no malfunctions; sustained fire not possible due to penetrated dust impeding bolt movement, Magazine 2: After slight oiling of bolt, flawless functionTrial 8>a)Test firing of dusted weapons after 4 days of storage>b)Sanding of weapons with following firing test>Date: August 8, 1944>Duration: 14.00h-16.00h>Temperature: 28.9C>Ammo: 840 rounds PistPatr44>Degree of dusting: slight, heavy>Test Firing: Same as Trial 7
>>625212175/?Results of Trial 8>a)>ERMA 4317, slight dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2394, slight dusting, 60 rounds, shot no 1: jammed case, otherwise flawless function>Haenel 1444, heavy dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4373, heavy dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4132, heavy dusting, 60 rounds, Magazine 1: 4 misfires, Magazine 2: 4 misfires, otherwise flawless function>Haenel 2196, heavy dusting, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>b)>ERMA 4317, heavy sanding, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2394, heavy sanding, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1444, heavy sanding, 90 rounds, Magazine 1: shots 1-2 jammed case, burst fire: jammed cases, sustained fire: faulty, Magazine 2: shot no 2 jammed case, otherwise flawless function, Magazine 3: no malfunctions>ERMA 4373, heavy sanding, 60 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4132, heavy sanding, 120 rounds, Magazine 1: 4 misfires due to hampered bolt motion, Magazine 2: 3 misfires due to stuck bolt, Magazine 3: shots 1-2 had misfire due to stuck bolt. After slight oiling, 3 jammed cases otherwise flawless function, Magazine 4: no malfunctions>Haenel 2196, heavy sanding, 60 rounds, Magazine 1: bolt had to be moved several times back and forth by hand. Individual fire: hard bolt movement. Sustained fire: flawless function. Magazine 2: no malfunctions
>>62519906M1 Carbine is so fucking good>>62521031I thought the G3 was famous for sucking ass and every country that used it ditching it as soon as possible when they got into a real war
>>625212216/7, These last few trials reports are quite lengthyTrial 9>Fouling of weapons with mud and following firing test>Date: August 8, 1944>Duration: 14.00h-16.00h>Temperature: 28.9C>Ammo: 240 rounds PistPatr44>Degree of muddying: slight, heavy>Test Firing: 5 rounds individual fire, 3 short bursts, rest sustained fireResults of Trial 9>ERMA 4344, slight fouling(sprinkling of receiver with wet mud in area of bolt), 60 rounds, After 5 rounds of individual fire, bolt got stuck-sustained fire not possible. After oiling the bolt and moving it back and forth, flawless function>Haenel 1629, heavy fouling(weapon dipped in mud), 90 rounds, Magazine 1: shots 1-3 flawless, shots 4-5 jammed case, bursts not possible. Despite oiling and moving bolt back and forth, faulty function. Magazine 2: 4 jammed cases. Magazine 3: Flawless function>ERMA 4359, heavy fouling, 90 rounds, Magazine 1: Despite mud getting into the weapon through the open dust cover, first 5 shots fired without malfunction. Sustained fire not possible. After field stripping and a coarse cleaning, function still faulty. Magazine 2: 3 jammed cases. Magazine 3: Flawless function.Trial 10>Fouling of weapons with mud with following firing test>Date: August 11, 1944>Duration: 08.00h-10.00h>22.3CAmmo: 270 rounds PistPatr44Degree of fouling: Heavy, tough and pebbly mudTest Firing: Same as Trial 9Results of Trial 10>ERMA 4373, heavy fouling, 60 rounds, Magazine 1: shots 1-3 flawless function, thereafter stuck bolt. After coarse cleaning of the bolt, flawless function.>ERMA 4132, heavy fouling, 90 rounds, Magazine 1: shots 1-3 jammed case. After heavy oiling of bolt, flawless function.>ERMA 4373, weapon dropped into mud puddle during marching, 60 rounds, Hampered bolt motion. After washing off the mud and oiling the bolt, flawless function.
>>62521225You're thinking of the FAL.
>>625212267/7, hope someone is enjoying these.Trial 11>Ordinary dirtying of weapons during combat exercises: 280km by vehicle and 80km by foot followed by firing test.Date: August 8-18, 1944Date of Firing: August 18, 1944, 16.30h-17.30hTemperature: 30-35CAmmo: 90 rounds PistPatr44 for each weaponDegree of Fouling: Very HeavyResults of Trial 11>Haenel 1629, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4359, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4218, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2394, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 1516, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2196, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4032, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4373, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4533, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4344, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 9929, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>Haenel 2425, 90 rounds, no malfunctions>ERMA 4317, 90 rounds, cocking handle stuck. After cocking a second time, bolt not properly locked. After removing magazine and moving bolt back and forth several times, flawless function.>Haenel 1444, 90 rounds, Individual fire flawless function. Burst no 1: Case not ejected. Burst No 2: Bolt does not move back, stuck case. Further malfunctions: After one shot, jammed case. After two further shots, cases not ejected. After moderate oiling of bolt and gas piston, flawless function.Source is Hans-Dieter Handrich's Sturmgewehr!: From Firepower to Striking Power. If anyone is interested in reading the first combat reports of the MP43/1 from Heer's Gruppe Mitte, I can post that after work tomorrow.
>>62521245I am. Was hoping for a conclusion though.
>>62521245>If anyone is interested in reading the first combat reports of the MP43/1 from Heer's Gruppe Mitte, I can post that after work tomorrow.I am.
>>62521024ak is stamped metal niggerguess where that comes from
>>62521061>Italy with a relevant military that hadn't been bled dry by a decade of brutal attrition war against ethiopian savages armed with sharpened fruit
>OP makes another shitposting thread pretending to be a wehraboo to start shit>gets blown out insteadGood day.
>>62521255There wasn't much of a conclusion in terms of round count which I can try to draft up tomorrow, the author has this to say regarding the trials:>Regarding the results, one can generally say that the MP44s tested proved to be remarkably unsusceptible to ordinary fouling by mud, sand and water. In the case of heavy fouling, jammed cases caused malfunctions, largely due to hampered bolt motion. Depending on the degree of fouling, further jamming could be cleared by firing a few rounds, or lightly oiling the bolt. Compared to the results of similar trials performed with the K43 at the same location and during the same period of time, the performance of the MP44 was considerably better.>>62521259As long as the thread isn't dead by tomorrow, I'll make sure to post it.
>>62521272>>62521061>carriers limited to relatively close range launches>lexingtons might have bagged a Jap cruiser with their guns
>>62519673It was definitely innovative, but I feel it's kinda overrated if anything. Diverting even more resources to even more niche manufacturing was a total waste of time and the same sort of retardation that the Germans dug themselves into the whole war.People clown on Hitler for not immediately approving the concept, but it was arguably a better idea to produce greater numbers of submachineguns and ammo than to commit to yet another cartridge and rifle.>>62519962>without the AK we wouldn't have meme cartridges!Oh no how awful! Actually we still would as 350 legend sub-sonic is much more analogous to 9x39 and is just a meme hunting cartridge. It's even ya know, a fucking 9mm.
https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt07/stg44-assault-rifle.html
>>62519673the cartridge was the biggest innovation. Plenty of designs in rifles, smgs and lmgs had figured out how to make semi auto and auto fire reliable. The germmans were the first to accept that a smaller round could do well enough in actual combat
>>62521370>The germmans were the first to accept that a smaller round could do well enough in actual combatm1 carbine
>>62521358While your concerns are justified the Stg44 was actually worth it.No offense, but you're a lackwit gorilla who should never breed for not knowing the very specific and meaningful changes an assault rifle brought to a squad compared to bolt action rifles.And now don't tell me you weren't born 100 years ago and never lived at a time where that's relevant, that's no excuse for not being aware of the massive movement advantage a squad gains from being able to fluidly attack and retreat at any time instead of needing to awkwardly leapfrog around a machine gun.
>>62521376NTA but America specifically came to the opposite conclusion when it came to actual combat and chose not to make it the standard rifle and kept it mostly relegated to auxiliary personell and officers.Probably not without good reason as 30 carbine lacks the power of a proper assault rifle cartridge.
>>62521384>While your concerns are justified the Stg44 was actually worth it.>armies that won WWII and issued assault rifles0>armies that lost every world war and issued assault rifles1>being able tobeing able to be out of ammo and have your already skullfucked production and logistics lines divided yet again is so awesome, you just don't understand how cool it is to be issued three guns and have ammo for none of them, holy fuck after I run out of gasoline I'm just gonna be so pumped about walking all the way back to Berlin, it's so fucking kino rn fr fr
>>62521394>not an argument>butthurt>no actual knowledge of warfareYep, it's a butthurt subhuman.Which Hans raped you?
>>62521388>kept it mostly relegated to auxiliary personell and officers.Sad to see how little zoomies have been taught or know.Even sadder to see history lost because of how uneducated they are.>Probably not without good reason as 30 carbine lacks the powerDon't forget your frozen coat and hydrostatic shock, broccoli head.
>>62521408>not an argumentIt is an argument. It wasn't worth it, because it didn't win.>no actual knowledgeYour videogame knowledge is bullshit anon. Yes an assault rifle is super cool when you can produce them in mass numbers and actually get them and ammo to the front line. Germany couldn't do that.>rapeThat's the best part about walking all the way back to Berlin with no fuel and no ammo: no bitches when you're done because the Red Army rapes them all. Maybe if you were issued a sub-machine gun and Germany built a medium tank that was worth a shit this wouldn't have happened.
>>62519673Lever gunIt allowed Injuns to wipe out Custer's elite 7th.
>>62521417>anon thinks the M1 carbine became the standard issue infantry rifle of the US in WWIIAmazing.
>>62521419>It is an argumentNot an argument unless not going with it would have won Germany the war.Would not producing any stg44s have won the war?No?Then it's not an argument.>Your videogame knowledge is bullshit anon.You mean the actual experiences of the soldiers who used them and the tactical changes squads in basically every army applied based on their new capabilities?Anon, do you even understand the difference in movement between a bolty squad and an assault rifle squad?Can you describe it?If not then I accept your surrender.
>>62521423>nooooo!>it wasnt even used!>just auxillary personnel and officers!Meanwhile, in the most combat decorated unit of WWII.You zoomies are utterly retarded. I take great solace in at least knowing you are broke and will likely never be able to afford anything nice while you rent for the rest of your life.
>>62521430>Not an argument unless not going with it would have won Germany the war.If they stripped away useless projects they couldn't see out properly like it, yes they could have won.>in basically every armyYou mean the ones that came after, because literally nothing changed in WW2. See the above problem: it had zero affect on the war. Ergo it was not worth it.>Anon, do you even understand the difference in movement between a bolty squad and an assault rifle squad?Can you describe what effect it had on the Wehrmacht in WW2? What changes in their tactics occured? None? Oh right. What battles were won with the StG44? None? Oh right.>If not then I accept your surrender.Already accepted yours 79 years ago lmao
>>62521423the m1 garand and m1 carbine literally were the standard issue rifles of wwii though.
>>62521441>>nooooo!Nobody said that.>>it wasnt even used!Nobody said that.>>just auxillary personnel and officers!>kept it mostly relegated to auxiliary personell and officers.Do you not know how to read?>zoomies I'm not a zoomer and correct.
>>62521443>Can you describe what effect it had on the Wehrmacht in WW2? What changes in their tactics occured? None? Oh right. What battles were won with the StG44? None? Oh right.I'll ignore the rest of your (wrong) assertions and point out that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and proved it by being unable to answer my very simple and very limited question.I ONLY asked you about the difference in movement between two types of squads. You couldn't answer it and tried to counter (without answering mine) with much more sweeping questions.But if you're actually interested, read Sturmzug by Karst + the reports this anon will post tomorrow. >>62521245Spoiler: I have and you're wrong.
>>62521447The sudden backtracking in this post is astounding.>mostly relegatedWhatever you have to tell yourself, skibidi retard or whatever you say.
>>62521461>I ONLY asked you about the difference in movement between two types of squads.There isn't any because you're still tied to your machinegun.>b-but doctrine from 80 years later!Isn't relevant. You can keep kicking, screaming, and crying over that fact but it doesn't matter. The StG44 wasn't a good gun at all and had zero impact on the war at all. Later assault rifles were good guns and had impact on wars they were involved in.
>>62521462>The sudden backtracking in this postAnon, you said claimed I wrote shit I never wrote, I literally quoted myself to prove you wrong, are you high?>Whatever you have to tell yourself,How about you just learn to read instead of sperging out, embarrassing yourself and then trying to gaslight others in a conversation that is recorded in written form right above your answer, you dumb cuck.
>>62521466>There isn't any because you're still tied to your machinegun.See, that is the exact difference.You aren't anymore. You'll see it tomorrow when anon posts the trial results where it's spelled out for retards like you. The biggest difference they mentioned again and again is that they didn't have to stop anymore during attacks or retreats and could fluidly keep on moving back and forth without needing to wait for their MG to set up to safely move every time.I'll accept your apology later.>doctrine from 80 years later!Those guys were literally the first to try it on the battlefield.You're just wrong, anon. It's okay, you can learn.
>>62521441a lot of frontline troops got the M1 carbineit was primarily for officers and auxllaries, but thats not even close to the number of people it was handed out toplatoon leaders got an M1 carbine, the MG section got M1 carbines in addition to their M1919, and mortar troops got M1s for self defensean infantry battalion got something like 200 carbines to 400 M1 rifles, there were a lot of carbines that ended up in combat units
>>62521469>mostly relegated to auxiliary personell and officers.You could just admit you were wrong.>embarrassing yourself Oh no, Anon! You're embarassing yourself on the anonymous image board!lol, lmao>gaslightNobody except women use this term. Get yourself some vagisil or something.
>>62521488>You could just admit you were wrongBut I am right about that. Do you not know what "mostly" means?>Nobody except women use this term. It's the first time I ever had to use it here, but how would you describe it when you see a retarded cunt like you flat out lying about what I wrote and then trying to pretend I can't just scroll up and quote it like this?>>62521388>America specifically came to the opposite conclusion when it came to actual combat and chose not to make it the standard rifle and kept it mostly relegated to auxiliary personell and officers.Now try to pretend I wrote something else again, maybe it'll work this time.
>>62519673Wehraboo, the only reason why you think that is because guns after it evolved to look similar to it, nothing more.
>>62521510Why would you fall for such obvious bait, anon?You're not a gay retard, are you?
>>62521497>But I am right about that.<citation needed>Despite claiming it was mostly issued to auxillary and officers, every picture posted so far has been an enlisted infantryman from either the European or Pacific theaters and only one has been an NCO (not that you would be able to tell on your own).That is more supporting evidence than the claim you have made, for which you have provided absolutely zero.You do not own guns, you do not know what you are talking about, and you degrade the quality of this board with your faggotry (which is saying a lot, really).Please leave, kthxbai.
>>62521421Around half of the Indians at Little Bighorn had bows. Another 25% had muskets. The final 25% had cartridge firearms, but many of them were Springfield Trapdoors and similar weapons. There were some Winchesters, Henrys, and Spencers present but not all that many.
>>62521526><citation needed>Rush, Robert S. (21 November 2003). GI: The US Infantryman in World War II. Osprey Publishing Ltd. pp. 33–35. >Despite claiming it was mostly issued to auxillary and officers, every picture posted so farWhy the fuck would that matter? lmaoI can show you 50 pics of black soldiers, does that mean the entire US army was made up of nogs in WWII?>That is more supporting evidence than the claim you have made, for which you have provided absolutely zero.You never asked, you just screeched and lied about what I wrote.Why did you lie?
I think this is better
>>62520888Based, trips of truth confirm.
>>62521526><citation needed>>>62521529>Rush, Robert S. (21 November 2003). GI: The US Infantryman in World War II. Osprey Publishing Ltd. pp. 33–35.lol>ask for citation>get citation>shut upI mean, that's nice and certainly above average in behavior for retarded cunts on /k/, but an apology would've been nice.
>>62520363Apparently not the M1 sperg
>>62521360>eternally butthurt anglo dunking on kraut engineering>turns around and makes the SA80
>>62521536I too played day of defeat and battlefield 1942.
>>62521245no wonderweapon but it sounds like it was... fine.
>>62520472>mentions all of those guns except the FAL, the ONE "modern" gun that is almost direct copy of the STG44 (tipping bolt, kind of similar disassembly)what is it about the STG44 making people that talk about it lose 50 IQ points
>>62522009Nothing to do with gaming, it was a very good rifle and in service before the STGThe only thing stopping it being the first assault rifle was the full power cartridge it used.
>>62521417except paratroopers, the carbines weerent that popular for frontline infantry in europe. Rather they switched out garands for more BARs in the squad if they could. In the pacific the carbine was really popular however, almost anyone that could tried to get a hold of one for better jap clearing in bunkers and hot dense jungles
>>62522540>The only thing stopping it being the first assault rifle was the full power cartridge it used.That's not a distinction Germans make though.The G3 is an assault rifle as much as the G36.
>starts bait thread>gets proven right
>>62524322it's been happening since newsgroups
>>62519673>the most innovative (for its time) firearm
>>62524513>for its time
>>62521760>SA80 is then Fixed by Kraut engineering>Fix is more expensive than M16 which were not purchased because of cost
>>62525743
Will be posting the write up for the MP43/1 reports in a bit, I mis-remembered as it was actually HeeresGruppe Nord, not HGr Mitte that conducted the trials.
Just to set a little bit of context for the report, HGr Nord was mostly occupied with the Siege of Leningrad for the year of 1943. While the beginning of the year saw some stiff resistance to the Soviet offensives at the beginning of the year, namely Operation Iskra and Operation Polar Star, the region had stabilized more or less by April of 1943. Since the sector was relatively quiet compared to the larger operations of HGr Mitte and HGr Sud, the HWaA along with the OKW thought this a good region to test the new MKb42(H), of which 2,000 were shipped to HGr Nord on April 21st, 1943. A troop trial conducted by the 6th Company of the 23 Grenadier Regiment found mixed results with the MKb42s in a report dated August 7, 1943. A very small amount of early production MP43/1s were sent along with the MKb42(H)s to see if the difference in operation (closed vs open bolt) were preferred by troops. The MP43/1 trials came about a result of these trials and testing at the Infanterieschule had found the closed bolt MP43/1 more desirable for a fighting rifle than the open bolt MKb42(H). The trials for the MP43/1 were to be carried out by the 1st Infantry Division, one of the original divisions of the Wehrmacht and one of few that existed in the pre-Nazi Reichswehr.
>>62528772The final reports of the first troop trial on the front performed by units of the 18th Army [HGr Nord] with the first 500 MP43/1s date from late November to early December, 1943. This indicates that the selected infantry companies of the three divisions of AOK18 had received the test weapons in late September and early October, since according to the order of the HGr Nord as of September 23, the final reports were to be filed two months after reception of the weapons.Compared to the earlier trial reports about the MKb42(H), which had been critical, the AOK18 reports about the MP43/1 were all very positive. As a good example, the vivid final report of Hauptmann Gotfried Uhlig, leader of the 3rd Company of Grenadier-Regiment 43 dated December 2, 1943, which clearly describes the superior characteristics of the MP43/1 and attests that it was largely able to replace the LMG is presented in full as follows:>3rd Company, Grenadier Regiment 43>CO HQ, 2nd December, 1943Final Report about the Troop Trial with MP43/1>The company which performed the trial fully equipped with MP43/1 has been on mission without interruption since the beginning of the Russian campaign, and always in the northern sector of the Ostfront. Nearly all of its leaders, and most of the men are therefore familiar with every existing kind of combat action. The unit consists mainly of East Prussians, then West Germans, North Germans, Berliners, and Pomeranians.>A 200m-long clavey trench, and a 800m-long combat wall which is erected in palisades from different layers of boggy timber, constitute the battle position.Pics somewhat related, MP43/1s in cold weather trials in Norway and early Ostfront usage (read filenames)
>>62528791>If the enemy was relatively inactive in the beginning, his activity has now increased considerably after a successful advance of the company more than 2km deep into the enemy's main battle area. He reinforced his battle position and the crew. For the past three weeks, he is performing regularly every two to three days strong combat patrols towards our main battle line, supported by artillery, anti tank gun, and mortar fire. Smaller Russian patrols approach steadily their own line. A total of 10 of our patrols were sent to the enemy's forward line during the duration of the trial.>In order to equip the company, which has a combat strength of 85 men, with the new weapon, it was drawn out of the combat position for three days to change arming. Instead of 12 LMG, 4 MG were kept which were employed as HMG. The remaining part of the company was equipped with the MP43/1. Then the soldiers moved again into the old battle position without having had any special training with what was for them a completely new type of weapon. The 12 former LMG stands were occupied by the 4 MG and by MP gunners. They did not need to be reconstructed, since both the height of the firing position and the traverse range of the weapon were nearly identical to those of the MG. Due to the longer magazine, the remaining rifle stands and alert stands had to be reconstructed so that the gunner had a covered position. Traverse range and camouflage remained the same. In regard to defensive measures, no important tactical changes or reconstruction of the battle positions was necessary. The bunkers were provided with an enlarged anteroom since in the coming winter not only the machine guns but also the machine pistols have to be stored outside the warm bunkers. The machine pistols will be brought into the bunker only for cleaning, to prevent steaming up and freezing when they are brought outside again.
>>62528799The MPs are in their mounts, one magazine inserted, with the magazine pouches beside them ready to grasp. In case of repelling an enemy approach, the immediate readiness of the MP has proven extremely favorable. The important advantage in agility at close combat over the LMG is clearly realized and of great advantage when repelling sudden, unexpected enemy advances. What we did not forsee is the advantage of the MP's versatility in case of counter-attacking against enemies who penetrated our own trench. In this case, the MG fails totally, because it is too inflexible and unwieldy in the narrow trench.>During patrols the weapon stood up well, especially becasue of its low susceptibility to dirt and sand. The inevitable dirtying caused by the men crawling did not impair its performance at all. It was ready to fire at any time. The ideal weapon for patrols! Because it is not as unwieldy as the MG, it is always combat ready, and has more effect and performance than the rifle (presumably K98ks).The previously used patrol weapon, the MP40, cannot be compared to the MP43/1 due to its susceptibility to dirt.
>>62528806>In an assault the MP43/1 has shown its superiority to other weapons even more, and proved outstanding. An attack of the company in full strength was made against a fortified position which had been in enemy hands for three quarters of a year, constituting a main strongpoint in his defense system. The position was pushed through, and the company penetrated more the 2km in the enemy's main battle area, took prisoners, destroyed bunkers and positions, inflicted considerable casualties on the enemy and gathered booty before returning to our own position according to the order. The rapid advance and the successful repelling of strong enemy counter-attacks is thanks to the good performance of the MP, and its immense increase of firepower. Combining deliberate individual fire with the highest possible increase of firepower was most effective in the defense of counter-attacks as well as at the withdrawal when the enemy was exploiting. By this, with every man being both an infantryman and a machine gunner in one person, while in the past these functions were separated, the performance and effectiveness of each MP unit in contrast to the old one equipped with rifle and MG will be practically doubled. Despite the worst weather during the attack (slush, rain, mud) none of the MPs failed, except those destroyed by direct combat effect. This success is especially remarkable because the company had had the weapons in hand for only 14 days and were not properly familiar with their special handling (prevention of dirtying and getting in of sand, particularly when lying down in the prone position). Of the three accompanying MGs one was destroyed by mines, the second failed after 600 rounds due to dirtying, and only one remained combat ready through to the end of the mission. If equipped according to the old weapon allowance (LMG and rifle), three squads would have lost their firepower.
>>62528814>This is not to mention the fact that in case of a more intensive MG employment, the enemy is able to locate these weapons easily by their distinctive bursts of fire, and focus on them much earlier, resulting in a significant loss.>During withdrawal, the significant superiority of the MP was shown. When in former times the MG had to perform the change of position by being the first to break away, the squad was left in this weak moment of breakaway with only the firepower of the rifles. This time, the firepower remained constant, no matter which one of the gunners withdrew alternately, and there was no need to consider the time-consuming redeployment of the MG, which is not possible to hide from the eyes of the enemy.>During the eight-weeks-long trials, all kinds of tests were made with the machine pistols. They were not cleaned for a long time; soaked in water; dirt was put into the magazines, and the barrels were overloaded and overheated by extensive firing. In all these cases, no deficiencies occurred, which would have impaired the war suitability of the weapon.>The MP43/1 came up to all our expectations.
>>62528822>Now it is important to put it in the right frame according to the experiences made, to fit it in and integrate it, together with the other weapons, into the units, so that its outstanding qualities can best be made use of. The suggestions made in the appendix for both an MP company and for an MP battalion are based on the experiences of the company during the campaign and the performed trials. They refer as far as possible to the ordered KStN [Table of Organization & Equipment].>The aim of the re-organization is seen as:>Restriction of the number of weapon and ammunition types to as few as possible, with the goal of the most possible increase of fire and the ability to concentrate anti-aircraft fire and high-angle fire at any position, as well as to simplify the weapon technical training to have more time for the necessary combat training.>It might be possible that for psychological reasons the front-line troops-the fighters-were unwilling at first to give up the weapons which had saved their lives during hard hours of battle. Therefore the company -subordinate leaders and men- approached the new weapon hesitatingly and with harsh criticism. But after all the tests and after the MP43/1 had proved itself in heavy fighting, every man is convinced of the superior performance of this weapon.>The company wishes to continue fighting with this weapon. Moreover, due to their own excellent experiences with it, the company considers it urgently necessary to equip other troops with it as soon as possible. The Machine Pistol Platoon of the Grenadier Company should not be the final aim, but rather the Machine Pistol Company in the MP battalion.>Uhlig, Hauptmann and Company LeaderHauptmann Uhlig was later awarded the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross as commander of the 2nd Battalion/GrenRgt 43 on November 26, 1944.
>>62519673>the most innovative small arm since Mauser action or Henry repeaters in the American Civil WarProbably, at least fielded in a major conflict (and developed during it)>
>>62519673I never saw it. No idea what that is.
>>62521198CITATAION %100 failure
>>62521466>There isn't any because you're still tied to your machinegun.>>62528791>As a good example, the vivid final report of Hauptmann Gotfried Uhlig, leader of the 3rd Company of Grenadier-Regiment 43 dated December 2, 1943, which clearly describes the superior characteristics of the MP43/1 and attests that it was largely able to replace the LMG is presented in full as follows:>>62528806>The important advantage in agility at close combat over the LMG is clearly realized and of great advantage when repelling sudden, unexpected enemy advances. What we did not forsee is the advantage of the MP's versatility in case of counter-attacking against enemies who penetrated our own trench. In this case, the MG fails totally, because it is too inflexible and unwieldy in the narrow trench.>>62528814>The rapid advance and the successful repelling of strong enemy counter-attacks is thanks to the good performance of the MP, and its immense increase of firepower. Combining deliberate individual fire with the highest possible increase of firepower was most effective in the defense of counter-attacks as well as at the withdrawal when the enemy was exploiting. By this, with every man being both an infantryman and a machine gunner in one person, while in the past these functions were separated, the performance and effectiveness of each MP unit in contrast to the old one equipped with rifle and MG will be practically doubled.>>62528822>>During withdrawal, the significant superiority of the MP was shown. When in former times the MG had to perform the change of position by being the first to break away, the squad was left in this weak moment of breakaway with only the firepower of the rifles. This time, the firepower remained constant, no matter which one of the gunners withdrew alternately, and there was no need to consider the time-consuming redeployment of the MG, which is not possible to hide from the eyes of the enemy.QEDApologize, cunt.
>>62528898kek>>62529311Yet another thread the anti-German retard made just to get destroyed.How has he not killed himself yet?
>>62528912>CITATAIONwat
>>62519673>innovativeit's an innovative small arm but small arms simply don't matter in warfare.Vast majority of deaths and casualties are from indirect fire>artillery>bombs>rockets>mines>shrapnel
>>62519673>for it's timeStill is
>>62521536I like it too.my dream is a repromod selective fire one in 6 5 Grendel
>>62519686Non-tourists are a minority these days.
>>62521245correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the g3 a stg44 2.0?
>>62519906If the M1 carbine had not used a roundnosed pistol lead bullet the caliber could have evolved into something greater. Make the bullet longer, make it of steel, make it a spitzer, same weight but better ballistics, and you have a good round for an all american burp gun, a SMG with 300 meters range.If you want to discuss roads not taken the 6 mm navy with a spitzer would be a boosted .223 70 years earlier. Small arms developement has been minimal over the last 100 years.
>>62519906ww2 also showed that everyone loves smg's. >tommy works well and soldiers were trading m1 garands for tommys>mp 40s prove their worth in response to tommytakeover>greasegun response to mp40>everyone loved literally every single one of these guns
Garands against STG's is nowhere near Muzzleloaders going against Henrys
>>62530806This board has been killed
>>62519673>innovative>svt40 bolt and m1 garand pistonNah not really
>>62521265The PPSh-41
>>62519809>>62521061Imagine is WW1 didn't end until 1945. If WW1 weapons and tactics were continually developed under war time durress. I have never seen a single piece of media that did this concept justice.
>>62531694The G3 was an evolution of the StG45(M) which itself was a simplification of the StG44. One could make the argument that it was a spiritual successor to the StG44 though I think that title belongs to the HK33 even though it wasn't adopted by the Bundeswehr. Arguments for the G3 being the spiritual successor are primarily around its manufacture and widespread issue though it lacks the intermediate cartridge and suppressive fire capabilities with it. There's no doubt about seeing the form factor lineage of the HK roller delayed blowback rifles from the StG44.
>>62529321>Yet another thread the anti-German retard made just to get destroyed.>How has he not killed himself yet?He dropped this failure of a thread to open one about the MG42 instead.
IF ITS SO INNOVATIVE THEN WHY AINT WE USIN IT TODAY LIKE BROWNINGS MA DEUCE? BESIDES NOBODY WANTS TO BE CAUGHT USIN A GUN MADE BY THE TWO TIME WORLD WAR LOSERS! :laughing: GOTTA AGREE WITH >>62519906 EVEN THOUGH I AINT ALWAYS BEEN THE BIGGEST FAN OF THEM LITTLE CARBINES BUT THEYVE BEEN GROWIN ON ME AS OF LATE SINCE THE ARTHRITIS GOT WORSE :crying: I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH >>62532386 THEM LEVER GUNS KICKED ASS BACK THEN CERTAINLY MORE THAN SOME SISSY KRAUT GUN! :laughing:-Dale Johnson
>>62533135>the StG45(M) which itself was a simplification of the StG44Bullshit.the 45 was a completely different design made to be simpler to make, not simplified.
>>62533135>though I think that title belongs to the HK33all of your post was faggy, anon.
>>62528888>Mauser actionNot the first bolt action (Dreyse) or even the first repeating one (Vetterli) The Mauser is not really an innovation, but it is the pinnacle of earlier technologies
>>62520009>hugo schmeisser was the father of the AK!I've heard it repeated countless times by ARfags lolUntil they realized Schmeisser inspired them too, now he is irrelevant
>>62519962The AK had 30 round magazines and a folding stock back when the M16 had 20 rounds and a fixed stock
>>62519673>This is the most innovative (for its time) firearm ever made and it's not even close. Extremely underrated.
