Why couldn’t Saddam pull out a Faluja/Grozny/Gaza/Aleppo/Rafah/Raqqa/Mariupol/Bakhmut in Baghdad? He had relatively better equipments and far more men.
>>62521860He was fighting the western armed forces in open battleAre you sincere in asking this question
>>62521860it is illegal to hide among civilians, dumbass
>>62521860Because he was a shitty military commander who was already hiding in a hole in the ground when the ground forces showed up.
>>62521860Because it was over anon and everyone knew it. Most soldiers are not die hard fanatics willing to throw their lives away in a last stand.
>>62521915>>62521919Saddam was on his way out too, unlike in the 80s and 1991. Didn't help that a lot of Iraqi military at that time were around or knew people who were around in 1991 and knew just how different the US was to Iran.
They did try that. Americans didn't roll into the city freely. Iraqis were dug in the rpgs and machine guns all over the city.
>>62521957Then how come fallujah lasted four times longer than Baghdad?
>>62521972religous fanatism
>>62521972One fought for a paycheck, the other fought for their god. It's easier to surrender when you're fighting for a paycheck.
>>62521972the insurgents at Fallujah had ideological motivation to fight unlike Iraqi troops.
>>62521957They had all types of weapons hidden all over the city. The insurgency fought with the weapons America didn't find.
>>62522004>>62522010>>62522014Where'd you find these? DVIDS?
>>62522018Official Army website. I know because of the file name.
>>62521860Nobody wanted to fight for Saddam.
>>62521997From the podcasts I've heard, ISIS gave up pretty quickly without a fight when SOF knocked on their door. You can find outliers where they did fight back, but most of them were just local bullies until America showed up.
>>62522104>2 am>SOF "knocks on your door" (aka blows open a wall and begins spraying into the place with LMGs while an AC-130 orbits overhead">you're somehow "giving up" when you surrenderThis is the same mental distortion the Russians had prior to 2022 anon. Giving up when overpowered and ambushed, if the enemy is willing to accept your surrender, isn't cowardice.
>>62522010>>62522014>>62522017>>62522019>>62522021>>62522026All these controlled det photos remind me of is the girl with the massive boobs straddling the bomb in one photo. I miss the 2000's
>>62522117My point is they weren't suicidal fanatics like the insurgent in Fallujah, even though both fought for their god.
>>62521932>Saddam was on his way out tooI do wonder how things would have turned out if the Americans didn’t invade in 2003, sooner or later Saddam would have passed and no way in hell was Uday getting the big seat.>>62522125>I miss the 2000'sDon’t we all :(
>>62522000>>62521997>>62521993>>62521972I disagree with the assessment. The main difference was that the US didn't want to cause fighters in Fallujah to surrender with the greatest economy of time and force possible like they did Bagdad, they wanted precisely the opposite. Fallujah was intended to be more like Vedun than the Battle of France - the US did everything they could to get as many enemy fighters into the city as they could and as many non-combatants out of the city as they could - they literally announced their intentions well in advance and then literally let fighters (fighting age males) through the IDP checkpoints to enter the city while women and children were exiting. Then they went block by block and killed them, capturing others but not making an effort to trigger surrenders.The goal of Phantom Fury was always to have a pitched battle at the place of the insurgent's choosing that would bleed the insurgency dry and break resistance in the city by giving everyone who was offering it a chance to die so that order could be restored.
>>62522500>they literally announced their intentions well in advanceThey do that in most operations. You never heard about how they drop fliers telling the enemy that Americans were coming and had instructions on how to surrender? They would rather the enemy surrender than risk American lives.
>>62521972They just rolled through Baghdad on a series of thunder runs. Iraqis had no idea what was going on or Americans would do such a crazy thing. Insurgents popped up using saddams weapons. The insurgents were saddams army who gave fell back. Their plan was to wait the American military out then take back over. Fallujah was set up as a kill box to drawl in as many insurgents as possible. The official numbers are like 6000 dead insurgents 600 dead Americans In reality is was probably closer to 50000-60000 insurgents. We know because of books, stats, census, eye witnesses, ammo spent.Some delta force were killing 100-200 a day and just not even keeping count. They'll eventually let it out but Fallujah was a full on slaughter.
>>62522527>You never heard about how they drop fliers telling the enemy that Americans were coming and had instructions on how to surrender?They didn't drop any surrender materials for Phantom Fury. Also, in general they didn't (don't) declare operational intent (who, what, when, where, why) like they did for Phantom Fury. Phantom Fury was deliberately very unusual and a great departure from how the US usually does shit - it was always an infantry centric operation (not fires centric) where infantry would go house to house to kill insurgents rather than use artillery or air support to do it, it was intended to have maximum insurgents participate in the battle rather than as few as possible, it was intended to have a cleared city without non-combatants.Phantom Fury was always, from the very start, about throwing down a gauntlet to the insurgency and saying "Your propaganda says the Iraqi Army surrendered without a fight, that you can fight us on even terms, that we're nothing without planes dropping bombs on you, that we won't fight man to man on your ground. Well, let's test that in Fallujah. We'll give you every chance you need to to assemble every fighter you can into the city and then our infantry will come to every house on every block so you can see the whites of their eyes while you bleed to death from gunshot wounds they inflicted."And then they did, but the insurgent leaders fled the city before it started and carried on the insurgency to new heights afterwards, but never, not even once, accepted open battle against coalition infantry again and never let themselves repeat the delusion that they could outfight their occupiers. Fallujah was a total failure, but definitely not because the defenders fought too well, inflicted too much loss for what they took or even proved a point.
>>62522585>They just rolled through Baghdad on a series of thunder runs. Iraqis had no idea what was going on or Americans would do such a crazy thingThe problem with fighting americans is american commanders don't feel compelled to follow American doctrines.
>>62522590>it was always an infantry centric operation (not fires centric)What are you talking about? Americans dropped more ordnance on Fallujah than they did the entire battle of the bulge or tet offensive.
>>62522585>600 dead AmericansNo one believes that.
>>62522592That is very true. Tyrannys' aren't used to ground commanders having free will. Ukrainians are still fucking Russians up by letting the ukrainians make fast calls on the ground.I think everyone who studies war even as a hobby needs to watch or play "foxhole" the game. First game in decades I've seen that kind of captures what actual war is like. The logistics, tactics, it's pretty spot on
>>62522606From the direct actual Fallujah battles I think it's officially around 200
>>62522030Were battlefield trophies a common thing back then? How many small arms came back in the early 00s? Any notable captures?
>>62522590>They didn't drop any surrender materials for Phantom Fury.I'm pretty sure I've read it a few times and saw it on documentaries.
>>62522622I think they stopped allowing spoils of war after WW2.
>>62522622>>62522643The SEALs that participated in the OBL raid took his AKS-74U and have it hanging in their club house. Supposedly OBL took it from a dead Spetsnaz soldier in Afghanistan.
>>62522597The fuck did you hear that? In a month long urban offensive the US employed only about 6000 rounds of 155 and a few hundred bombs. The US expended more tonnes of offensive support munitions on _each day_ of the Battle of the Bulge than it did in the entire Second Battle of Fallujah.
>>62522643They don't allow it anymore, but there are stories of guys taking stuff. I've heard about guys taking furniture from Saddam's palace.
>>62522622Very uncommon. A couple of pistols made it back. I know a story of one guy who managed to get back some bigger items and got busted. Kept them in his garage iirc. Personal story is my brother found an AK bayonet, just the bent rusted blade and tang in the sand while he was in Kuwait. His command got pissed when they saw it and made him toss it.
>>62522628I've heard a lot of whacky psyops stuff from Fallujah, like blasting Team America on full volume, but never surrender pamphlets.
>>62521860Because, as much as americans like to jerk themselves off regarding their AMAZING invasion of Iraq, the truth is that arabs can't fight in general and in this specific case they didn't even have the will to fight (and no, it wasn't because the americans 'broke' them with air-attacks beforehand).
Saddam was not actually popular and nobody wanted to die to defend him. Also there was some belief that America might actually improve things. It took about a month for the incompetence of the occupation authorities to shit all over that goodwill and only then did the insurgency start picking up steam.
>>62521860>He had relatively better equipments
>>62522721Small arms were allowed to be shipped back via mail at the start as long as they were disassembled/no explosives, but it got progressively more restricted/stupider as the war went on.
>>62522906Not able to fight EFFECTIVELY, not unwilling to fight.Read "Thunder Run" by Zucko or watch Ops Room's episode about that on YouTube to see what 3rd ID ran into when they rolled into Baghdad.
>>62521860In 2003 Iraq was a failed state with basically no army and offered no coherent resistance.
>>62522590>Fallujah was a total failureWhy?
>>62523184It didn't break the back of the insurgency. The situation in the province continued to deteriorate, being both the region with the most insurgent attacks and one of the main lines of communication through which foreign materiel and reinforcements were supplied to the insurgents. Al Anbar didn't settle down until after the Awakening in 2007.
>>62522622One guy in my company found a kukri in Afghanistan and brought it through customs on the way home and got it confiscated. The dumbass should’ve mailed it back.
>>62521860He was retarded. There was an interview with the commanding officer of the Republican Guard who said that prior to the American attack, he had his med dug in around the bridges towards the south where the Americans were coming from. Then he got an order from Saddam that he was certain that the Americans would come from the north and he better pack up and head north, so he does. Halfway through Baghdad he gets news that the Americans have taken the now unguarded bridges in the south west of Baghdad and he better go get them back right now, so he has to order his troops to assault now American held bridges and they all get fucking slaughtered. An interview with an American about that battle said they have blasted so many Iraqies during that counter attack that the whole area smelled like BBQ.On a tangentual note. Same interview the Republican Guard commander also said he was sick of hearing about WMDs because he'd have fucking used them if he had them.
>>62523922Officer was just covering his own ass
>>62523765I smuggled a sword back in my weapons case and nobody even looked at it. Maybe I just got lucky
>>62525412No you didn’t.
>>62525013They never found any WMDs tho
>>62525518They never found any yet*
>>62521868fpbpFighting Americans may as well be fighting aliens for russians and sand people
>>62521906lol, he was getting hung either way.
>>62522674It's more likely he had it taken from a Soviet helicopter or IFV/Tank crew. That was the assumption made among jihadists, anyway, and was a way to build credibility.
>>62525518Even the NYT has admitted (well after Bush was out of office) that they found lots of chemical weapons.
>>62522611Can you go into further details? I've watched a few videos but they're always so cut up that I can't get a real feel of the game. There's never a comprehensive vieo that actually breaks down a campaign and all the strategies that were used. Just meme videos
>>62522098Nobody wanted to die for Saddam.
>>62523150>Not able to fight EFFECTIVELY, not unwilling to fight.This. Arab soldiers will fight. It's the organization, the system, that fails.
>>62526173It's a top-down game that has seasonal wars between two major powers that runs the gamut from WW1 to late WW2 in technology. Every bullet and shell has to be dug out of the ground by a player far behind the actual fighting as raw resources, then fed into the MIC to produce weapons, ammunition, and vehicles for the front line. Every artillery platform has to be built, aimed, and fired by hand. Every tank has to go through a process of being assembled that's exponentially more expensive as technology advances. It has a lot of problems with players being fucking faggots about the logistics of war, and they will never be able to solve the issue of people making alts on the other faction for the express purpose of spying and sabotage. But it does show how important supply chains are.
>>62526000bruh, the Poles (or was it Spanish troops? I forget) found some ancient empty mustard gas shells in the desert, that doesn’t count as finding WMD’s
>>62522622>>62522622the US is gay now and not worth fighting for, the last bring backs were vietnam see>>62523765>>62522750
>>62521860what was the motivation of an average us soldier invading iraq, like 99% of americans have never heard of iraq before the invasion
>>62521860His men ran and hid.
>>62522010>>62522017love the random 7 series
>>62522585>>62522590and all that didnt matter in the end
>>62522985Better than the ruskies do now, simpleton.
>>62528702M version too. ME dictators love cars.
>>62521906He was one of the good ones
>>62522500The republican guard are pussies but the objectively moral Muslims were not.
>>62528551Where do you think the Gulf War was fought anon
>>62532356Kuwait
>>62532437Iraq as well
>>62522621I think you missed his point. The global south mind refuses to believe that it would be impossible to hide the deaths of more than a handful of American soldiers. To this day, they think America suffered 10x the casualties in Afghanistan but the American government just hides it, somehow.
>>62528723>>62530213It mattered a lot for the thousands of drug-addicted, pedarist scum that the Americans killed or maimed and captured in Fallujah. You love to talk big about how brave and moral your fighters are, but they are the most cowardly and immoral human filth on this planet. The immoralities and indecencies they commit against one another, other muslims and heathens alike, the haram sins of the flesh and mind they routinely commit, the tears, bawling, begging and babbling they neverendingly issue when captured...As God is my witness, those footsoldiers, the people you hold up as the first among you have overwhelmingly been the most pathetic, sinful and disgusting of God's creations when I or those I know have met them in the flesh. They brought great shame on your people and your faith.
>>62533100That's nice. Now can you please ring me up a McDouble and a keg of soda? I'm sure your 'insurgent days' were quite exciting.
>>62521860Because the US didn't allow him to do it. Everything was tailored to stop Saddam from pulling a Stalingrad.
>>62526676NYC National Guard found a warehouse full of chemical weapons, it's in their unit history.
>>62522125>the girl with the massive boobs straddling the bomb in one photo.Uhh... link?
>>62526000I was pissed when the media said “there were no WMDs” the unit I was apart of found shipping containers full of chemical weapons and documents stating what chemicals how and when they were supposed to be used the people in the unit every showed us the injectiors they were issued.
>>62525518The meme is the US invaded Iraq for oil (for the US markets) and that there were no WMDs.https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/14/world/middleeast/us-casualties-of-iraq-chemical-weapons.htmlhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/iraq-s-hidden-chemical-weapons-us-covered-up-discovery-of-chemical-weapons-after-2003-invasion-and-many-are-now-in-isis-s-hands-9795485.htmlhttps://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/10/chemical-weapons-iraq-u-s-covered-up-evidence-of-defunct-sarin-mustard-gas-manufacturing.htmlThe US didn't need Iraqi oil because it didn't import it in the first place and there were definitely WMDs, just not the very sophisticated program that the invasion was "sold on."
