what a hunk of shithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HljpWBkQbgU
>>62525498is the xm7 actually going to be used, or is it just another xm8?
>>62525792why would they use the XM8 over an AR?
>>62525796same reason for the xm7 i guess
>>62525498>making a 20 minute video about some reddit post where a self-admitted 50 year old out of shape pog officer complains that the rifle is too heavy for him
>>62525498>Rips up BMPs and BTRs
>>62526924So can my Glock 40 problem solvaNothing special
>>62526921Literally everyone who has ever used it complained about the weight.
>>62525792They only ever bought a few hundred XM8s for limited testing, it never got handed out to operational units for training, like the XM7 and XM250 are currently being issued. The US army has got confirmed orders for ~40,000 XM7 rifles and ~2,500 XM250 machine guns.And they've already accepted delivery of ~12000 XM7 rifles and ~1000 XM250 machine guns.And the FY25 and FY26 orders are expected to continue expanding order totals until about 110,000 XM7 rifles and ~13,000 by around 2030.
>>62527746>and ~13,000 by13,000 XM250'sIt should be obvious from context, but it's my fault.
>>62525498Shouldn't we be more excited about the round than the rifle?
>>62527824Finally- a caliber designed to take down a 130 pound famine victim.
>>62527661It's about as heavy as a 249 after putting everything on the xm7 and this is going to everyone not just 5'5" dude.
>>62527871Wrong, almost no one gets that version of the M249. The vast majority deploy with the 16lbs gun (before you throw any attachments on it).By the time it has attachments and ammo it's getting on towards 20lbs.XM250 is lighter than the M249.So how the fuck are you going to imply the XM7 is heavier than the M249 when we know the XM7 is lighter than the XM250?
Grunts will always be happy to get a new range toy and officials will always curate what opinions get out
>>62527932>Wrong, almost no one gets that version of the M249.Why must you make me feel old.
>>62527871I recall Garand Thumb complaining about it and that guy's 6'2 and built
Surprise surprise>recoil is only mildly more noticeable than 5.56>forward assist BTFO gl next time ARsissies lol>round has crazy penetration, can hit targets even after blowing through concrete blocks>less than or equal to 3MOA>suppressor suppresses insanely well>1-8x scope is accurate, durable, and based as fuck, they love it>same fucking barrel life as M4>rifle is indeed heavy as fuck with all that shit on it but only when you are aiming it, because of how much of the weight is placed in the front making the balance nonexistent, otherwise it is light to carry>maintenance is difficult for some reason (?)Apologize, /k/
>>62528056well, guess i'll have to buy the rifle nowits a good thing i listened to heavily filtered OPSEC reviews, its not like a govt. has ever produced propagandawait, is that...OH MY GOD RUSSIA HAS NOOKS!!!!! YOU HAVE TO TRUST WHATEVER ANYONE SAYS AT FACE VALUE!!!!!!AAAHHHHHHH
>>62527824The round is the worst part. Everything wrong with the gun is because it is designed around the compromised round.
>>62528090Not sure about the other things but GT deboonked the claims about the recoil being unmanageable @14:40https://youtu.be/tTAfS1addXU?si=2l1ZNPr3bMzafsR8&t=879>RussiaIt is probably for PLA twinks for when China attacks Taiwan, not ratniks
>>62528056Grunt input is heavily curated and literally just propaganda.
>>62528056You either watched only the first half of the video or just completely ignored any of the criticisms.
>>62528056Dude I wanna heavy ass fuck rifle that's also light carry.
>>62528131Weren't they using light loads in that video though?
Very impressive rifle saar, will redeem the contract saar SIG has no QC problems saar>Verification not required
>>62527777checked
>People acting like 6.8 sigger is some super powerful kryptonite round that can slay chinks through level 4 plates and an APC>It literally just replicates the ballistics of 7.62 NATO out of a 7" shorter barrel and adds no new capability that didn't already existThey could have just handed everyone an M110 and nothing would be different, except that they get a suppressor in a package the same length as an unsuppressed M110.
>>62528195>3061fpsNo
>>62525498>rifle in significantly larger caliber is heavier than possibly the lightest service rifle known to manngmi
>>625282476mm BCG and smaller size
>>62527824Why? All the bullshit about crazy high pressures didn't pan out in real world testing and the revised version is barely hotter than existing rounds.
>>62528195They're using hunting ammo in that video, but Sig lowered the pressure of the military ammo to "increase accuracy" (read: reduce recoil) so now it's the same as the hunting ammo.
>Task and PurposeOkay maybe it doesn't have that fucking retard>Cappy appearsPeople who link to dogshit like this must be clinically retarded. I don't even like the rifle, but I'm not dumb enough to think this is appropriate
>>62528264XM7 with suppressor is the same size as an M110 without suppressor. I don't see how the BCG is a feature, it's just a design detail.
>>62528272>now it's the same as the hunting ammo.why the fuck are they even bothering to use .277 at this pointhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwviXrOxXK4
>>62525792Best case scenario it ends up like the m14 and get relegated to being a semi auto only marksman rifle and the M4 gets replaced with the URGI
>>62525792Whenever I see this image I can only think of my friends airsoft gun from 2009
>>62528303they don't need 110,000 marksman rifles for a combat force of ~150,000
>>62528287Cartridge size not weapon size
>>62528091This. The 6.8 is a great round on it's own, but there's a reason 5.56 and 7.62 compliment each other so well and compensate for each rounds shortcomings. 6.8 and 7.62 do not compliment each other in the same way.
>>62528301Because it lets them make the gun 7" shorter >>62528247
>>62528311BFBC for me.
>>625283206.8 sig is 0.025" longer than 7.62 nato.
>>62528303It's something like a 4 MOA gun at best. Good luck using that as a DMR.
>>62528316It's 4 MOA, it's not a marksman rifle at all.
>>625283492 MOA according to GT and a little less than 3 MOA according to OP's source. Now you are just making up excuses
>>62528287>XM7 with suppressor is the same size as an M110 without suppressorNopeXM7 is 36" with a suppressor.M110 is 39.75" without a suppressor.
>>62528355maybe 4 MOA after a few thousand rounds.But it's 2-3 MOA according to user testing.
>>62528327.277 doesn't give you that. It's the 6.8 that does with specific loads.
>>62528359Sorry, it's the same size as the M110A1.
>Grunt’s opinion on anythingThey are meatbags designed to hold out long enough for the Air Force to get there.
>>62528250They're switching between loads in the video
It's an awesome rifle, I can't wait to be oppressed by 4'9" goblinas wielding it.
In the long run, the machinegun will turn out to be an even bigger piece of shit than the rifle.Source: It was designed by a w*man
Is it bad that I'm more hyped for it's potential hunting applications? Being able to get pissin hot ballistics out of a small gun would be nice. Plus being able to load with the giga nigga hybrid chink killer 9000 rounds could be interesting for larger game. Of course, everyone who posts this on /k/ is an indian MIC shill so I guess we'll never know :(
>>62528396^This, whatever guns the infantry has literally doesn't matter outside of situations where they need some guys to do CQB which this thing isn't ideal for.
>>62528413>they're switching between loads in the videoProof?
>>62528396As a giga-brain WARNO chad, and an amateur Ukraine War historian I can tell you one thing; Air support ain't fuckin' comin'The air war is the most complex battlefield, and it's the one with the largest number of threats present. Why and when aircraft dominate is through the total collapse of coordination of your enemy in a conventional military sense.Air superiority is a myth.
>>62528428It has worse terminal ballistics compared to .308
>>62528437Air support is coming if it is the U.S. we are talking about. Ukraine isn't like the U.S. at all
>>62528435Watch the video you goblinoid.
>>62528056>>recoil is only mildly more noticeable than 5.56what
>>62528394And the army switched their contract with KAC to the M110A2 which has a 20" barrel.Not to mention they only ever had like 6000 of them in total and the army has already accepted delivery of twice that many XM7s to date.
>>62528390They're the same. 6.8 common cartridge is just .277 fury hybrid case with an EPR projectile now. Hybrid case .277 gets another ~200 ft-lbs compared to brass case from the same length barrel.
>>62528449But they have all our stuff
>>62528446New fuddlore just dropped>>62528456Yes
>>62528469>but they have all our stuffThat's a cute idea, did your /pol/ give it to you?
>>62528428It makes a lot more sense for hunting where you're only carrying 5-10 rounds of fuckheavy ammo on you.
>>62528480>>62528449Do you guys just not remember what the fuck happened in Vietnam?We Were Soldiers is my favorite war movie of all time because of how accurately it depicts US airborne tactics. Spoiler alert, they eat shit die.
>>62528508>They eat shit dieObviously I meant to say "AND die", algohol's got me loopy
>>62528428ALL YOU NEED IS A 30-06 SON ITLL TAKE DOWN ANYTHING IN THE CONTINENT AND MOST GAME IN AFRICA TOO :sunglasses: DONT FALL FOR THEM SHORT ACTION GUNS LIKE >>62528446 IF YOU CANT HANDLE A BIT LONGER BOLT THAN YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE PUTTING ON MAKEUP :laughing: HAVE A BLESSED DAY SON, REMEMBER TO RESPECT YOUR ELDERS-Dale Johnson
>>62528473>>62528520Ballistics gel tests literally prove it
>>62528541I KNOW ITS BETTER THAN THAT DAMN EUROPEAN ROUND BUT YOU AINT GONNA BEAT NO 30-06 SON! I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU MEN DONT USE SHORT ACTIONS? MAKE LIKE MY WIFE BARB (THE BALL AND CHAIN) AND GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH :crying laughing: ALEXER PLAY JOHNNY CASH-Dale Johnson
>>62528301>ball ammo is the same a tungsten tipped round
All you idiots don't realize that the whole reason the bid called for 6.8 is that the DOD boys have cooked up a fancy 6.8mm AP projectile but they didn't have a cartridge or a gun for it. This whole program was literally to get a gun for a bullet they already came up with. I know that sounds crazy, but that's how it is.
>>62528006>I need to shill my jewtuber i NEED to i NEED to
>>62528669god forbid someone to mention anybody but you
>>62525498does this fag really need a 20 minute video to review this?
>>62528685its 10 minutes if you're not retarded
>>62528662It's literally just the M80A1 bullet scaled down.
>>62528769The 6.8 tungsten penetrator is the US's first 3rd generation penetrator. It's got a new faster manufacturing method and if put into mass production could be cheaper than the 2nd gen penetrators.
>>62525792>12 inch barrel>same size as m4>heavier>plastic optics railWhat the fuck were they thinking?Fucking retarded germans
>>62528420She was on the design team and was designing shit like the charging handle and other minor shit. She even says that in the video. I am still not a big fan of the program, but if you are going to shit on the program at least have REAL reasons to like the severe lack of ammo guys are gonna be able to carry.
>>62527746>>62527777Based army, fuck the haters. They can hardly shitcan a gun that already has 40,000+ confirmed orders.
>>62528056>combat load is more than halved while carried weight is increased by 50%Range toy. What is it with the army and always wanting range toys? The M16 had to be forced down their throat and now they're going back for a range toy.
>>62528056>>recoil is about the same as 7.62>>missing features>>round has the same performance as 7.62>>shit accuracy, not suitable for long distance engagements>>suppressor suppresses about as well as the much more compact buttplug suppressor from the GD entry>>The scope that was part of a separate competition and could have been installed on any rifle is pretty good>>barrel will never be replaced because it's so expensive due to the unicorn shit they made it out of to try and hit the lifespan requirement>>weight distribution is fucked, should have gone with a bullpup design>>maintenance is difficultSounds like a real winner.
>>62528707People watch these youtuber fags unironically? half the shit in the video is just slop
>>62528812>half the shit in the video is just slopyou're gonna hate it when you hear about this website called "4chan"
>>62528780Got a source on that? I haven't seen anything talking about loads other than the standard EPR and the brass case training cartridge.
>>62525498ngsw and these experimental jew guns are fucking gaypicrel is all we ever needed.
>>62528830Sorry it was some army major jerking off about a new tungsten manufacturing method back in like 2020 before the gun was even selected.But yea the whole point was it was supposed to be easier/faster/cheaper(eventually) to produce than the existing 5.56 and 7.62 tungsten rounds so if we actually needed to fight a war against an adversary with widespread use of level 4+ plates, we could more quickly and easily scale production to keep up with demand.
>>62528835>needGet a load of this fag. It may be all we need, but we can want so much more.
>>62528798You stupid? 40k rifles at, conservatively, 5k a pop its literally a drop in the bucket for army expenditure. The rifle is a boondoggle, unless you are retiring brass in ~5 years.
>>62528886Lsat is ugly and im glad it was canceled.
>>62528798>heh, nothing personnel
>>62528853Sounds misguided. The problem with tunsten isn't manufacturing, it's acquiring the tungsten itself. It's fairly rare as elements go and used in a ton of industrial applications. With a limited supply of tungsten, do you use it in rifle bullets for grunts or to make steel for tank armor and artillery barrels and tools to make pretty much everything? If we really do need plate punchers for every infantryman, the answer isn't tungsten, it's uranium. It's far more common, isn't used in bulk, US allies control over half the world's reserves, and it has an armor penetrating effect that no other material can match.
>>62528900It was a prototype. They could have thrown a fish-shaped shell over it later on.
>>62528810>not really>good>wrong>wrong>well I guess we will never know because GD got btfo>not an argument>cope>made an even worse trigger than AUG LMAO>it's technically just another AR so it shouldn't be too hard
>>62525796Better subaquatic performance
>>62528056>rifle is indeed heavy as fuck with all that shit on it but only when you are aiming it, because of how much of the weight is placed in the front making the balance nonexistent, otherwise it is light to carryThis is what brain rot looks like. You admit it's "heavy as fuck" but it's "light to carry" kek okay dude
>>62528958>it's technically just another AR so it shouldn't be too hardIt's actually slightly easier than an AR. The barrel is QD, the wear parts are screwed in, no buffer assembly, the bolt doesn't have the fine features that the AR bolt has because it doesn't act as a piston head, and the piston itself is easily accessible from the front of the rifle.
>>62528958>made an even worse trigger than AUG LMAOmilitaries use shit triggers from the get-go, they purposefully have heavy, slow, creaky triggersthats besides bullpups's triggers already being solved anyway, and on the gun you mentioned no less
>>62528958>wrongIt literally was designed to replicate the performance of .308 from a shorter barrel and that's exactly what it does.>wrongWith 3 MOA accuracy how many people are you hitting at 800+ yards?>well I guess we will never know because GD got btfoWe do know because both suppressors are commercial products, the Sig SLX and Delta P Brevis II.>A bunch of other desperate and uninformed copingSiggers get dumber every day.
>>62529009.277 does 3k out of a 13.7" so its not even in the same leauge as 308
>>62528267>>62528272I thought the whole point of this thing was the retarded high pressure loads. Why bother if it's downloaded to normal levels?
>>62529060Where'd you see that? What bullet weight?
>>62529197They needed the high pressure to get meet the requirements of the program so they could reduce it later on because the Army's original requiremments were stupid. Meanwhile the competitors made compromises to meet the power requirement that they couldn't fix with a few grains less powder later on.
>>62529248135gr
>>62528056>maintenance is difficult for some reason (?)Fatal flaw, F see me after class
>>62528993It means it doesn't weigh that much at all overall, but it feels heavy when you point it at the enemy because it is so front-heavy.
>>62529299Sig doesn't make a hybrid case 135gr, but anyway even if they did that's about right for a 135gr .308 out of a 20" or 22" barrel.
>>62527746If they're being adopted in those numbers, why do they still have the X designation? I don't really like the XM7, but I'd be kinda bummed to see the XM250 go.
>>62529438double down on making it a front heavy awkwardly handling fat fuck of a rifle by adding a bipod. and a quadrail like it's 2003.
>>62527661literally every infantryman that has ever existed has complained about carrying equipment all day
>>62525498At this rate, we'll only replace the AR platforms when we build a fucking plasma rifle.
>>62529672Ultimately, the army decides if/when to remove the X designation. It could be in active service use for a decade and the army could still call it the XM7.
>>62529904And are any of them wrong?
>>62528056>recoil is only mildly more noticeable than 5.56Lies>forward assist BTFO gl next time ARsissies lolFine>round has crazy penetration, can hit targets even after blowing through concrete blocksSo does .308. Not that impressive. >less than or equal to 3MOAOk. That’s the same as an M4>suppressor suppresses insanely wellLol wut? Compared to what? It’s an 80k psi round with a 13” barrel. You’re getting a shitload of blast and noise even with a suppressor >1-8x scope is accurate, durable, and based as fuck, they love itYeah the scope is good. The rifle has nothing to do with it >same fucking barrel life as M4Bullshit unless they are using some super steel. And they are not. It’s a faster round, at a much higher pressure, using more powder. Its creating more heat and friction which reduces barrel life. >rifle is indeed heavy as fuck with all that shit on it but only when you are aiming it, because of how much of the weight is placed in the front making the balance nonexistentYeah. I’m sure that won’t be an issue >otherwise it is light to carryLol no. Do you realize how dumb that sounds?>maintenance is difficult for some reasonSure but that’s a training issue. Probably. How convenient you didn’t mention using 5.56 lets you carry 50% more ammo for 2.8lbs less.
>>62528131>not the full power ammo>shot by an over 6ft guy on roids>with significant military training and civilian shooting experience I’m sure that’ll translate to pvt Ramirez with zero issues
>>62531857Probably, but I wouldn't know because I concluded that infantrymen aren't worth listening to quite some time ago. If infantry are really complaining that the rifle is too heavy then they're still too fucking stupid to have worked out the game - they will carry the same total weight no matter what their rifle and ammo weighs. Did infantry loads get lighter when M4 was adopted? Of course not, more weight was added elsewhere.If you listen to infantry you are wasting your time. They are literally too stupid to see the forest for all the trees they desperately need to complain about.
>>62528793Cunt probably had "Live, Laugh, Love" stamped on the charging handle.
>>62525498QRD?
>>62532416M14 2 Electric Boogaloo
Sigfolx, we need to make a tactical retreat back to SigNext™ forum and the offcial Signext™ discord group ASAP and formulate out a new narrative to promote, the XM7 is taking a beating online by the vultures and it's taking a toll on my mental health.
>>62528428No it’s not bad at all. I don’t hate the concept of an industry supported bubbas pissing hot handload. I don’t even hate the rifle inherently. As a replacement for all infantry then it sucks ass because of weight and ammo capacity. As a DMR or a civilian hunting/target shooting application it has a lot of merit. Hell even as a civilian for a combat rifle I think it has some merit, because you shouldn’t be getting into extended gunfights where ammo capacity and suppressive fire is an issue. The ballistics can be a plus. You still have an issue with weight, heavy ammo, and cost, but those are ok compromises in the right context.
>>62528446No it doesn’t. There’s plenty of real reasons to hate this. Don’t make up lies
>>62532416>heavier>smaller magazine>good optics>powerful ap round
>>62532416ARfags still crying about their raifu getting replaced by a better and sexier looking new rifle.
>>62532846Is that a problem?
So why in the absolute fuck did we not just start using AR-10s and better bullets? I really don't understand.
>>62533040We didThat's literally what this is.M110A1 is similar sized, but not purpose built for the task, XM7 is purpose built for the task.
>>62528662That’s retarded. If the projectile is so good it can be scaled to other existing rounds. Or make it 6.8x51 but with normal pressures so it’s just a barrel swap on all existing 7.62x51 guns
>>62525792fish gun was redesigned as the SCAR, so its fine.
>>62529904And they’re right. Packs shouldn’t be 80-100lbs or more
>>62532416>at least 13lbs loaded with fancy scope>80k psi round with nearly 3000 ft lbs of energy>nearly uncontrollable in FA because of this round>barrel life severely diminished because of pressures>20 round mags for a battle load of 140 rounds>33% less rounds than now (or 50% if you want to say 20 to 30 vs 30 to 20)>mags weigh 40% more which is another 2.8lbs for a battle load>army making a new rifle for the last war (Afghanistan engagement distances) rather than for the next war (sub 500 yard engagements)I don’t see where any of this could go wrong
>>62533047>That's literally what this is.>siggers don’t even know what the gun design isTypical
>>62533197What exactly do you think the XM7 if not a slightly modified AR-10 design?And what do you think the M110A1 is?The XM7 is literally just a short-barreled AR-10 chambered in 6.8x51
Why didn't they just go for a hk416 like the marines and everybody else? Also good luck assaulting a trench with that shit
>>62533319>Also good luck assaulting a trench with that shitThe new army handbook on tactics basically says they're not going to get into a trench war and will rely on highly mobile manoeuvring combat units (like the current doctrine already dictates)
>>62533367the infantry jumps in trenches, buildings, bunkers, and tree lines to shoot people in the face. they're the only part of the force that can do this and anything else that needs shooting can be shot better with any other weapon system (240, .50, mortar, bradley, tank, aircraft)
>>62533407I'm aware, i'm just letting you know what the actual newly published army tactics textbook has to say.
>>62533411that doesn't have anything to do with small unit tactics where small arms are relevant. battle drill 5, 6, and 7 are here to stay
>>62533367>The new army handbook on tactics basically says they're not going to get into a trench war and will rely on highly mobile manoeuvring combat units (like the current doctrine already dictates)lol, when will the US grow out of higschoolits been perpetually an un-endingly trying recreate desert storm, like their highschool senior homecoming or somethingits fucking overit was ~40 years agoits time to move onthe days of fighting a hapless, completely out-leagued opponent are overthere isnt EVER going to be another war where the US gets to leverage its air assets with impunity like desert storm ever again
>>62533423>that doesn't have anything to do with small unit tactics where small arms are relevantwhat part of "the US isnt designing its infantry doctrine for trench warfare" are you failing to understandthe "small unit tactics" and "Small arms" doctrine practiced by the US assumes (obviously) they will have complete air and ground superiority, to conduct high mobility manuevers wherever they chose to operatethe US will simply *airstrike* you untill you leave your fucking trenchsimple as^we could do it now in ukraine if we chose to,its that simple with US air support
>>62533423Again, i'm not saying they're NOT trained to do trench fighting at all, simply the current doctrine states they aren't going to get into a trench war in the first place and thus how good/bad the gun is at trench fighting isn't particularly relevant to the Army brass making the decisions.
>>62528420Big Yikes
>>62533465you're retarded, the parts of an infantry unit that practice high speed maneuver warfare are IFVs, and helicopters. at the terminal end of said high speed maneuver the infantry will be shooting people in the face from 100m, closing into 30 meters, and hurling grenades at themhave you ever heard the term CLOSE WITH AND DESTROY THE ENEMY before??>>62533481a positional war like ww1 or parts of ukraine has trenches, a maneuver war also has trenches. What do you think a fucking area defense has.... and if you are attacking said area defense???you're so fucking out of touchbattle positions are holes in the ground. trench warfare aka positional warfare is not about how many trenches there arego to a CTC rotation, the army is not legislating close combat out of existence dafuq
>>62533514>you're so fucking out of touchNigger, I'm not advocating for or against this doctrine approach, I'm simply telling you that's what the army is doing you dumb faggot.Go fuck yourself.
>>62533519you are out of touch because you completely misunderstand said doctrine
>>62533520So go read it and tell me how you interpret it.
>>62533481>simply the current doctrine states they aren't going to get into a trench war in the first placeexactly this^thirdies here cant imagine what its like having air superiority, so they automatically assume the US will adopt thirdie tactics like 'trench warfare', completely forgetting a little thing called CloseAirSupport, (something the US does better than any other country)lmfao, if Putin mouths off 2 or 3 more times, US A-10's are going to start strafing runs on Russian positions across the front, and ukraine will storm miles into their lines before the brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt stops.The US COULD be doing that right this instantheck, we already might be doing it ;)but one thing i know for certain, is the US IS DEFINITELY NOT doing 'trench warfare' or any other thirdie form of war
>>62533514>wordswordswordswordsyou simply dont get itthe US*clap*HAS*clap*AIR*clap*SUPERIORITY*clapwere going to send A-10s one after the other to the 'trench/forest line' and only when it is ash, will a US infantry grunt step of the pile and *shrug* meh*>"shoulda called in one more sortie, just for the brrrrrrrrrrt**baka* retarded ziggers never had the chance
>>62533546>>62533569There won't be any A-10s left by the next time the US gets into a shooting war
>>62533546>>62533569>dude, just become fat and lazy, air is doing everything anyway, don't try to adapt and be versatile at all. No need for that. At this rate, your average US soldier will look more "thirdy" than any other thirdy save for his shitty google glass and giant shitass electronic optic thats going to break the moment some sand touches it. So much for muh infantry specialist. Marines going for hk416 is just another evidence that they are the only real infantry in the US military.
>>62533569>wordswordswordswordsQuite trying to enforce twitter's character limit here you oxygen thief.
>>62533185>80k psi roundnot anymore lol
>>62533607>There won't be any A-10s left by the next time the US gets into a shooting waryah, no kidding it will be f35 sorties, one after the other, dropping laser guided bombs directly into the trench pits itself>>62533618>zigger seething at US air superiority, teeth chattering that A10s will soon be covering unstoppable US advances MILES into Russian salients, whenever, wherever
>>62533654We honestly don't know, for all you know the Tungstend penetrator rounds do have 80k PSI still.Also, even the 113-grain ball rounds are likely in the 65-75k PSI range, even if not 80k.
>>62528316You will need it whenever they go to war and conscript people for it.
Every time a thread about this rifle pops up it's just filled with absolute retardation. Anyone who says the xm7 is muh M14 is just modern day fudd lore at best and rampant retardation at worst.
>>62533215>The XM7 is literally just a short-barreled AR-10 chambered in 6.8x51No lol. Identify the piston location on each rifle, then get back to us.
>>62533825They're both gas pistons anonJust slightly different styles> The original AR-10 action designed by Eugene Stoner is commonly called a direct impingement system, but it does not utilize a conventional direct impingement system.
>>62528780>he thinks the Army is going to generally issue 80kpsi tungsten ammoBuddy, I've got some oceanfront properties in Idaho to sell you.
>>625338009mm Glocks and 5.56 AR-15s are all you'll ever need, sonny!>sent from my based Christian tiktok while flossing
>>62533903Lol, you're right, they're producing millions of tungsten rounds for shits and giggles.At the moment the Army is accepting ~53,000 tungsten 6.8 rounds per month. With over 2 million ordered and on the way.
>>62533966>>62533903and we go up to almost 100,000 delivered per month starting in early 2025.
>>62533972DELETE THIS! POSITIVE INFORMATION ON THE PROGRAM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED REEEEEEEEEEE!
>>62533966>>625339721.2 million rounds a year is less than nothing thats a rounding error. like a week of full scale conflict. US in iraq and Afghanistan had to lean on commercial 5.56 factories because of shortages. The amount of brass, copper, and gun powder per bullet is also significantly more.
>>62534003No one said it was going to fully replace the ball ammo.Simply the US IS producing a new Tungsten penetrator, and the whole point of the new penetrator is to be easier/faster to manufacture if needed.The 6.8 tungsten rounds will likely be procured until we have a war reserve of at least ~10 million rounds, but I wouldn't be shocked if they 10x or 20x that number. It's classified exactly what quantity is in the "war reserve".
>>62533966>>62533972US forces fired almost 2 BILLION rounds per YEAR in Iraq and Afghanistan. 2 million rounds isn't nothing, but they won't be used any more than M995.
>>62534047>but they won't be used any more than M995The whole point is that they're easier to manufacture than M995. We also haven't produced M995 in like a decade.
>>62532229>liesMike proves it. Most vids when it was in development had it on adverse >so does 308Not out of a carbine barrel>you're getting a shitload of blastYou are getting assblasted, see pic-related>noiseQuieter than a suppressed AK-74>the rifle has nothing to do with itThey go together, deal with it>bullshit unless they are using some super steelAnd they are>sure that won't be an issueHistory shows grunts always complain about weight no matter what you give them. And the guy complaining he wasn't as fast was an obese 50+ year old>light to carryYes>training issueNew rifle, new training>>62533185Everything you said has been debunked as fuddlore several times in the thread and yet you keep spewing it. Sad
>>62533215For starters it’s a AR-18 derivative. Meaning it’s a short stroke piston and not DI. You dumb nigger.
>>62534091Again, the AR-10 is a gas piston too technically and not DI.Deny this if you want, but you're disagreeing directly with the AR-10 patent.> In U.S. patent 2,951,424, the designer states:> This invention is a true expanding gas system instead of the conventional impinging gas system.
>>62534060Easier to manufacture might save a couple of dollars but it doesn't solve the issue of the rarity of the material itself. It's good for limited use where you know your forces will encounter body armor and you need them to do something important. Trying to fight a full-on war with tungsten bullets is retarded though, that's throwing away thousands of tons of an extremely important strategic material that's used to some extent in practically everything.I don't know why you think it's strange that no one's making more M995 right now, it's been a decade since we've been in a war and we already have a stockpile.
>>62525498I'm sick of people acting like we can't have more than 1 front line gun. We did it in WW2 just fine. The M7 is probably insanely good for outdoors shit with long ranges. The M4 is going to be your go to for close quarters, urban warfare. Why can't we use both?
>>62527661isn't it only 1 or 2 lbs heavier than a kitted out M4 with a suppressor? are people that fucking weak?
>>62534114For outdoors and long ranges, .308 already exists. The point of the XM7 is to shrink the M110 down to something you can kick doors with.
>>62534106The US and Canada has plenty of Tungsten reserves, it's just not worth mining because we can get the shit cheaper from thirdies who run slave labor mining operations.Also a tungsten penetrator is not the entire bullet, just a piece inside, probably less than 50-grains. Or a little over 3 grams. A single ton of tungsten can likely produce almost 350,000 rounds. The US has at LEAST 215 million metric tons of Tungsten ore deposits. So without importing ANY tungsten, the US could theoretically produce ~75,250,000,000,000 rounds. That's a little over 75 trillion rounds.
>>62534120Should have been heavier imo. Any soldier that complains about its weight should have a lead block with a rail attachment screwed into it attached to the rifle. Weak little bitches need to lift.
>>62534158Your math is off simply because raw ore doesn't = processed tungsten. But the US should still be fully capable of producing 10's of billions of Tungsten rounds if push came to shove.
>>62534047>2 million rounds isn't nothingIt also obviously doesn't include FY26 and beyond.it's not like we're gonna stop making them after the FY25 order.it's 2 million through FY25, but it could be 10 million through FY30.
>>62534158>just dig up the country's entire tungsten reserve during a war and convert it all into consumables for small armsDo you understand how stupid this sounds? Yes, I understand that it's not something you're actually advocating. But I don't think you understand how important tungsten is outside of bullets. It's used in practically all high strength alloys, and used for the tooling to machine those alloys. It's used in much larger amounts for much bigger projectiles that shoot at things much more important to destroy than bugs in l4 plates. You think digging up all (or at least a substantial portion of) the country's tungsten reserve is feasible? How many millions of those tons go into the mining industry to make that happen, how much of that is recoverable afterwards? How many man hours and quintillions of gallons of fuel would it take? The fact of the matter is that we are shackled to roughly current production levels, which can maybe in increased 2 or 3 times, and the vast majority of production will be sent to making ships and planes and tanks and artillery and bombs and shells and APFSDS and literally everything that isn't small arms.
>>62534250Again, we haven't even touched the 215 metric tons in the US because it's not economically feasible. We'll just keep buying it from africa/asia/south America for half te cost.And this isn't going to change anytime soon.I'm just saying your fear mongering about tungsten not being plentiful enough to use in a war is hilariously wrong.Even if we only touched 5% of our Tungsten reserves, that's still 10s of billions of rounds.
>>62534287>215 metricsorry, 215 million metric tons
>>62534287>How long do you think it takes to mine 10 million tons of tungsten ore?>How long do you think it takes just to develop the infrastructure for mining and processing 10 million tons of tungsten ore?>How many man hours do you think it takes to mine and process 10 million tons of tungsten ore, and how do you think that affects the rest of the war effort?>How long do you think tooling up to begin production of millions of tons of tungsten affects production of war materiel?>How much of the resulting tungsten do you think goes to projectiles compared to high strength alloys and ceramics for ships, planes, artillery, trucks, and tanks?>How much of the tungsten allotted for projectiles goes to 6.8 compared to missile, bomb and shell casings, 120mm APFSDS, 20-40mm autocannon penetrators, and .50/.338 AP cartridges?
>>62533433>the days of fighting a hapless, completely out-leagued opponent are over>there isnt EVER going to be another war where the US gets to leverage its air assets with impunity like desert storm ever againCurrently there is Cold War leftovers kicking the shit out of Russia. Fighting them would be a completely out-leagued opponent
>>62533654Lol you got me there. It’s hilarious that they made it to shoehorn into army requirements, then the army is having them scale it down so it’s more manageable to shoot. Exactly like everyone predicted.
>>62534386Again, you're being retarded.We don't NEED to touch that reserve, and we NEVER will.But fear-mongering about our lack of Tungsten is stupid because we HAVE a fuck ton of it we're not using.To imply we can NEVER use tungsten bullets in a war is just fucking hilariously out of touch it shouldn't even be taken seriously by anyone. Sure if China decides to invade taiwan tomorrow we aren't going to be outfitting everyone with tungsten penetrators, but if we felt we needed more tungsten rounds in 5-10 years, the US fully has the capability to make that happen without importing tungsten (which is obviously what they would do because it's cheaper/easier)
>>62534421I never said that, what I said is that they won't be used more than M995, which does get used.
>>62534437Again, that's delusional.In the event china DOES start issuing actual level 4+ plates, the US will ramp up production and it wont even blink thinking about our tungsten reserves.
>>62533880>doubling down on the retardery Godspeed anon.
>>62534474Even if you were right (and demonstrably, you're not). It's still an AR-10. Since the AR-15 and AR-10 BOTH utilize either DI (not actually DI), or short-stroke gas pistons.
>>62534447Again, thinking that the US will ever make enough AP bullets to make them general issue in a war against CHINA of all countries is absolutely retarded. We fired 2 billion bullets per year in IRAQ. A war with China would easily use 5-10x that number. Even replacing 10% of that with tungsten (at 3gr per penetrator) would require the entire yearly output of China, the US, and Canada, currently the top 3 exporters of tungsten. Obviously buying from China (the top exporter by a huge margin) isn't an option, so we're talking about using roughly the entire rest of the world's current tungsten production just for small arms.And don't forget, the world is currently using ~100% of that production. If the world doubled tungsten production we could theoretically make enough bullets to replace 10% with tungsten, as long as we weren't making literally anything else that we aren't currently.
>>62534561The US imports raw tungsten ore, processes it into workable tungsten, then exports it.We could easily import more ore, and stop exporting the processed tungsten.
So they just give up on cqb and trench and shitty situations because they got traumatized by talibans (eventhough /k/ told me that they won)? Isn't infantry one of the core elements of the US army?
>>62534580>At a time when China is doing the same thing>And the rest of the world still needs tungsten for all the things they currently need it forFirst off, if you think war with China is a real possibility, invest in tungsten futures. Second off, this will absolutely happen, but very little of that additional tungsten supply will go into bullets for small arms. Production will probably never top 10 million per year even faced with a third world war, while total expenditure of bullets would easily meet or exceed 10 billion per year.
>>62533682>You will need it whenever they go to war and conscript people for it."you"?lol, poland, finland and sweeden are in nato for a reason>100% LEGAL draft/conscription on 100% of the populationthese 3 countries were brought into nato SOLELY because of their existing legal framework for conscription and draftingnato allies will get to field the rifle for us however,hopefully they like itif not>no refunds!
>>62534706So DU bullets it is.
>>62533966>>62533972lmfao, doesnt like all of modern war stats show its like ~50k bullets fired per actual man-killed by small arms?wouldnt training alone deplete virtually all of that in like a few days?im not so sure EVER posting western production figures is a *good* thing..
>>62533980>The US, at industrial capacity, is producing basically boutique amounts of ammunition for its next "general service rifle"the absolute state the utterly gun-illiterate polish posters on this board is surreal
>>62534095conventional impinging gas systems means the gas just hitting the piston face in this context, anonIt's not refering to direct impingement.See Collector Grade Publications 'U.S. Rifle M14 - From John Garand to the M21" by Blake Stevens for reference
>>62534736>trainingWhy the fuck would they regularly train with tungsten ammo?I could see a single range day with it just to give you the chance, but there is no point in giving it out regularly for training, they have specific training ammo that's a hell of a lot cheaper.
>>62534393>Currently there is Cold War leftovers kicking the shit out of Russiano, those are state of the art systems that have to be fucking wrestled out of the hands of european nations who have nothing elsewhy insult ukraine like that?^ukraine isnt receiving garbage, as if we dont care about themthey have the most advanced cruise missiles, AD/AA systems, tanks, MLRS and SPG guns europe can offerthere is literally nothing else more advanced to be provided, outside of continent destabilizing missile systems
>>62534728DU is good shit but there's not much of it, either. Natural uranium is the way.
>>62528349>>62528358>>62528303GT never got to shoot the Army's EPR ammo, he has no idea what its accuracy is.
>>62529588>>62529299>>62529248the 6.8 steel EPR is 120gr
>>62533215>The XM7 is literally just a short-barreled AR-10 chambered in 6.8x51Look at this retard and laugh.
>>62534132>The point of the XM7 is to shrink the M110 down to something you can kick doors with.Formerly "Shooting armed Chinese robodogs"Formerly formerly "Punching through Russian body armor"Formerly formerly formerly "More range to shoot mountaintop to mountaintop in Afghanistan"Formerly formerly formerly formerly "More stoppin powah to drop drugged up Iraqis"
>>62534077>Mike proves it. Most vids when it was in development had it on adverseMike wasn’t using full power loads. You can’t fight physics. >you are getting assblasted, see pic-relatedIt’s a flow through suppressor. Of course the gas at the ejection port is less. Why did you purposely ignore the muzzle, where blast is far more noticeable. >noise>Quieter than a suppressed AK-74Proof. Also why are you comparing to a AK-74 and shitty Russian suppressors rather than modern US made ones. That’s a retarded comparison. >They go together, deal with itNo, they don’t have to. You can put that same scope on any rifle. Do you disagree? Did ACOGs make the M4 design better?>bullshit unless they are using some super steel>And they areReally? What steel? Post the specifics.>History shows grunts always complain about weight no matter what you give themAre they wrong? Are the 90-100lbs packs from GWOT acceptable? Is adding weight to that amount smart?>light to carryDoubling down on the retardation. Bold strategy cotton. It’s objectively heavier and you can’t even use the bullpup excuse of weight being towards the rear. >Everything you said has been debunked as fuddlore Really? Be specific. The only opinion piece was the last line. Are you disputing the weights or capacity?
>>62534095You can argue AR-10s and AR-15s aren’t true DI. Fine. But you can’t argue they have the same operating system as an AR-18 which is what the XM7 uses. And that’s what you said, which is flat out wrong. Quit changing the topic.
>>62534114This. I hate the XM7 as a gun for everyone. Make the barrel a few inches longer and keep it as a DMR rifle or for SF and I’m good with it. I think it as a DMR and the new MG would be a good pairing.Assuming they pull their heads of our their asses and add a quick change barrel to the MG.
>>62535200Are you fucking retarded?There are plenty of short stroke gas piston AR-15s.
>>62534120It’s 13lb minimum. Kitted out M4s are what 9.5? That’s significant when holding and aiming. Also it’s 2.8lbs heavier for 140 rounds vs 210 rounds. If you want equal ammo capacity it’ll weigh even more. You’re added 6+ lbs to an already overburdened soldier.
>>62534772>those are state of the art systems that have to be fucking wrestled out of the hands of european nations who have nothing elseHIMARS is as old ass system and halted their advance. It crippled storage depots. Patriot batteries are old too and have performed admirably. None of their stuff is state of the art. At least not from the US.
>>62535205That’s a piston AR, not a traditional. Nor a traditional AR-10. Are you such a gorilla nigger you think AR-10 means “any .308 length cartridge” in a semi auto rifle. You are wrong. Multiple people have called you out. Just learn from it.
>>62535148Punching through body armor was always cope and never a stated goal of the program. The rest of that stuff is covered by swapping to a .308 analog.
>>62532919This is literally everything there is to this seethe. Just larpers crying their collection of 50 "different" half a century old lowest-bidder rifles is now outdated.
>>62533126U wot?
>>62535222Wow, it's almost like the XM7 is a MODIFIED AR-10fuck yourself you dumb gorilla nigger.
>>62535227The point of the XM7 was just a precursor of what is to come. USAxit of NATO
>>62534120crazy that we let people who aren't even 18 yet post on here on here
>>62535268No it isn’t. It’s a completely different operating system. You are wrong. Learn from it.
>>62535283You're right, thats why PWS sells gas piston AR-10s.
>>62525498The XM7 isn't the first mistake the US Army made>UCP camouflage>M16A2, which was heavier and more complicated than the M16A1>The original M16 not being issued with cleaning kits and having bad ammo>M14>Stubbornly not fielding magazine-fed M1 Garands>Krag-Jorgensen>Fielding trapdoor Springfields (glorified muskets) in fucking 1890The real mistake is the DOD and taxpayers letting the army make countless fuckups for well over 100 years
>>62535283He's really not wrong as far as marketing for guns goes.Almost no one is selling "AR-18's", but there are plenty of piston-driven "AR-10s" on the market. Even if he isn't technically correct, colloquially he is.
>>62535268>the XM7 is a MODIFIED AR-10Never go full retard.
>>62535346Yes generic gun marketing calls every AR in an intermediate cartridge an AR-15 and every AR in a full cartridge an AR-10 regardless of whether they have an AR-15 or AR-10's operating system.
>>62528131This is basically the same as back in the day when they got a bunch of swole guys that would train constantly with the M14 on full auto to "prove" that the average infantryman can handle it.
>>62532327As long as you don't have to use it yourself right? Typical.
>>62535368He's not entirely wrong though, it's just that it's been modified to the point where calling it an AR-10 is stretching the definition of an AR-10.
>>62535194I remember back when SIG actually had the specifics on barrel materials listed on their site which revealed that at least the Spear used the same material that is standard across the industry.
>>62534077>Everything you said has been debunked as fuddloreFucking how? Half of this shit has been listed by SIG and the army themselves.
>>62535621The spear barrel is different, pretty sure it's not QD and civvie ammo is only like 68ksi.
>>62535637>civvie ammo is only like 68ksiSo is the military ammo now
>>62535637That's only 2ksi off from the currently loads they're going with when they discovered the extra 10ksi didn't add much velocity and was negatively impacting accuracy. Either way i'm still skeptical about any claims about the barrel material especially since that time people were saying it was made out of the same material as SpaceX rocket bells. Which for the record are built to deal with heat and not so much pressure.
>>62526921He's generally positive about it in the video and he has to as he's basically a DoD mouthpiece at this point.
>>62535596Well obviously, rifles are for proles.
>>62525498Not interested, call me once we finally have lasguns.
>>62535670Prove it
>>62535695He can't.Especially since the tungsten-tipped stuff is sure as fuck not in civilian hands yet.
>>62525498>>62534114>The M7 is probably insanely good for outdoors shit with long ranges.It is LITERALLY just 270 winchester because the barrel is so short. If that doesn't tell you that fudds ran this program, nothing will.They should have hybridized .284win if anything. Starting from .308 case geometry was the first mistake, and it's the same kind of retarded thinking which lead to the .308's creation in the first place:>"we have to make exactly the same thing do more" This is the thinking behind the move from 30-06 to 308, and the thinking behind hybridizing the .308 case...and it's completely untrue. It's one of those statements which is only linguistically sound, the worst kind of sound.And really they shouldn't hybridize anything, because it's completely uneconomical. Things which aren't economical will not sustain, eventually reality bites and components stop being made. They should have gone with the ceramic/plastic cases, this hybrid shit is a losing play.
>>62534736>doesnt like all of modern war stats show its like ~50k bullets fired per actual man-killed by small arms?It's actually 250,000 rounds per kill.
>>62535695https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmaLnMg6dSw&t=1033s>We're taking that pressure a little bit from the original 80,000 down to closer to a 70,000 which balances the performance gain with the accuracy.
>>62535983That includes all ammo expended during those years, including training. 50,000 is probably about right for combat, maybe a bit low.>>62534736Obviously no one would be training with tungsten, they won't even be training with the hybrid case EPR ammo. The XM7 contract includes a ton of brass case ball training ammo.
>>62535983with the adoption of a battle rifle it'll drop right back to 25,000 rounds per kill
>>62536052Wouldn't be surprised if it's still something like 72ksi, which is still a bit hotter than the hybrid hunting loads.
>>62536070In his video he's talking about a 140-grain bullet but we know recently the ball round they're using for the army is only 113-grains.
>>62535729No one is going to be using tungsten thoughever. See >>62534047.
>>62536091Just because it wont be issued to everyone doesn't mean NO ONE gets it.Further, even if it's NOT issued it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and doesn't mean it doesn't have higher PSI.
>>62536079Source? I've heard that the EPR bullet is 130gr, >>62535041 says 120gr, I haven't heard anything about training ammo.
>>62536117https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M89gykkvrJg
>>62536110Yeah, I didn't mean literally zero rounds would ever be fired, I meant that its existence is mostly just academic since it won't see use beyond a handful of Ranger operations. It's entirely possible that it's 80ksi or even higher, since it doesn't matter if it burns out a barrel in 500 rounds; no single barrel will ever fire that much of it.
>>62536128Neat, thanks. Weird that it's hybrid case, I'd heard that the training ammo was all brass.
>>62536154That isn't training ammo. As far as I can tell, that's the standard ball combat ammo.
>>62536172Look again at 6:12. The combat ammo has an exposed steel penetrator like M80A1.
>>62536249Looks like it isn't the training rounds either.could just be a civilian offered roundSIG is currently selling cases of it
>>62536117>>62536128Every youtuber uses a different bullet weight for the hybrid, from 115 all the way to 140, just wait for it to be finalized
>>62536310>from 115113
>>62536310well they're currently actively selling 113-grain solid copper 6.8x51 rounds that supposedly hit ~3100-3200fps from a 16" barrel. >>62536300So that's more finalized than anything else we've seen.
>>62536322They are also selling 150gr though. Like I said, wait and see what the military uses
>>62536300Probably ammo that failed QC for whatever reason but is still good enough for commercial sale. There's also been tons of primed cases and pulled bullets popping up for sale.
>>62536373The 113gr is the only one they're calling 6.8x51, the others are listed as .277 fury. 150gr is the civvie hunting ammo.
>>62536300RIP, the crate is out of stock
>>62535606He is wrong because he originally meant it’s the same and it’s clear in how in phrased it. Then he coped out of it
>>62535217>HIMARS is as old ass system and halted their advance. It crippled storage depots. Patriot batteries are old too and have performed admirably. None of their stuff is state of the art. At least not from the US.GMLRS is state of the art. PAC-3 is state of the art.
>>62525792xm8 was actually cool
>>62537711Both are conveniently getting big upgrades next year. Gotta get rid of that old stock to make space for the shiny new ones.
>>62532919>>62535228no one is going to change their minds on your giant hunk of shit rifle you sigger kikes
>>62535333it's weird how the army is always the ones making retarded decisions and the marines and airforce are always making smart ones
I love how the Army had a contest for their brand new, state of the art, game changing rifle for the 21st century and Sig just walked in with a plastic m14 and walked out with a contract. I can just imagine how the pitch went:>*slaps barrel* You can murder so many slant-eyed villagers with this bad boy!
>>62537880nah, the pitch went: "hey if you choose our rifle we'll line your pockets with millions of dollars"
>>62537884I don't know, I hear this but it doesn't really make sense to me that Textron and General Dynamics couldn't afford to bribe the Army brass. On the other hand, it goes a long way towards explaining how Sig was able to beat out the Army's own rifle that they spent decades and millions of dollars developing.
>>62535680>as he's basically a DoD mouthpiece at this pointDoD's version of a commentary channel.
>>62535621Exactly. Which is why it can’t have the same barrel life with the same steel and a bigger, faster round. Or they are accepting a lower level of accuracy
>>62536052Kek. Get rekt Siggers
>>62537711>state of the artNot to the US
>>62534077Hey where did you go? You were so confident calling my post fuddlore, so why didnt prove it? It couldn’t because you are a pajeet shilling for Sig. No that can’t be it.
>>62539803They're still making the guns and ammo, how are siggers being "rekt" by this?They're still the prime contractor and will make hundreds of millions of dollars off of it.But yea it's not 80k PSI, we "won" be siggers "lost".LolLmao even
>people think that a different round magically allows you to shorten the barrel and keep good ballistics when sig themselves said that the crazy high pressures were what allowed them to drop the barrel lengththey'll announce 3.5-5.5" increased barrel length for XM7 Mk2 to compensate for the pressure drop and to increase accuracy furthermaybe a new muzzle device if the recoil has been too fucky
>>62539991Nope, the dropped the bullet weight from ~135-140 grain to 113 grain >>62536953 >>62536300
>>62540002even if they make a better, lighter bullet they'll still have to compensate for the kinetic energy loss with speed gain via barrel length
>>62539991Longer barrels don't increase accuracy. If anything they reduce it, since a longer spring of the same material and diameter has a lower spring rate. Apply that axiom to a barrel and it informs you that a longer barrel with the same profile and material has more flex. Shouldn't *really* make a difference, but who knows. Anyway, the purpose of a long barrel is to get more velocity and therefore more range, the XM7 already has a longer effective range than you can realistically put to use with an 8x scope and 3MOA accuracy.
>>62540023Well SIG is claiming 3100-3200 FPS from the 16" SIG Spear, which is roughly equal to the 15.7" total length of the XM7 (13" barrel + suppressor length) using that 113 grain bullet.
>>62540002The 135 and 140gr loads are .277 fury hunting and match. Those 113s are the only 6.8 CC military ammo we've seen and they're solid copper so they must be the training ammo. The combat ammo has a 3 piece EPR bullet with an exposed penetrator, everything seems to agree that they're between 120 and 130gr.
>>62528541Ballistic gel only models penetration and expansion. It does not and has never modeled wound size.
>>62534132>The point of the XM7 is to shrink the M110 down to something you can kick doors with.At which point the person carrying it will be at a severe disadvantage to anyone with an AK who can just spam 5.45 around a corner, with the stock folded, on full auto, controllably, as has been demonstrated thousands of times in Ukraine ON VIDEO. First one to get a hit wins, that's how it works, that's why the army rightfully ditched the M14.It is a FOOL'S ERRAND trying to turn a battle rifle into a CQB weapon. It is a complete fucking waste of time and money, and if you deploy men with that in their heads, lives too. There are things you do not do because even the BEST outcome is a BAD one, this is one of them.Even if they had done the sensible thing and gone with the bullpup and a 22" barrel, you STILL wouldn't want to make it standard issue, and the guy carrying it should STILL be last through any door.
>>62539907By shilling for a 80k psi wonder cartridge that got significantly tapered back due to all the issues we initially pointed out with it. I was referring specifically to the Sigger shill that was immediately proven wrong. Sig as a company is making a ton of shekels. They’ve bribed very well to get all the contracts. I wasn’t talking about them and I don’t know why you even brought that up.
>>62540064You’re correct but longer barrels mean higher velocity which means less drop and better practical accuracy. Which is what actually matters.
>>62540182Yeah i'm sure an anon REALLY cares that it's 70k instead of 80kYou sure showed himlmao
>>62540219If “he” didn’t care why did he ask to prove it. And it was proven. Nice attempt at deflection though.
>>62525792vgh my late 2000s military FPS wife
>>62540667No, he "proved" a single unclassified combat round has been lowered from 80k to "around" 70k PSI.We know nothing about the still unknown/classified tungsten round.
>>62537743>next yearAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAAH^ stop dont do this today plz>>62539808>Not to the USlmfao, may we see the state of the art hidden burgerwaffe?
>>62540704So you changed from >why do you even care broBack to>nu uh the super secret round is still awesomeThe tungsten round is the mass issued one regardless. We weren’t talking about that one. You’re showing exactly why everyone hates on Siggers. You can’t take any valid criticism. Your whole identity is tied up in things you didn’t do and around a shitty brand, or you are literally a shill who can’t acknowledge that Sig can do anything wrong.
>>62536117>>62536079>>62536128>>62536322>>62540002the 113gr rounds are copper training ammo for the shoot houseshttps://americanreloading.com/product/270-113gr-solid-copper-fb-pulled-250ct/The Army EPR is just under 120gr.
the only fact that is 100% guaranteed for certain is that more smaller bullets beats fewer bigger bullets every.single.time. full stopno debatedont repost medont respond to me or my post ever againm4's on marsAR's on jupiter556's on Keppler 22bsomethings airmen just 'dont get' and this is one of them
>>62533569>>62533546jfc, what the actual fuck is wrong with you to be talking like this
>>62540910>jfc, what the actual fuck is wrong with you to be talking like thisnothing you retarded zigger^and if you keep acting uppity, youre going to find out why the US gives free health care to illegal immigrants
Will ARfags livestream their suicides when the XM7 becomes the M7?
>>62540883>dont respond to me or my post ever againWhat now bitch?
>>62525796because it looks like the starship troopers rifle
>>62541116>What now bitch?im about to revoke your airmen wings
>>62533126Its became the acr not scar
>>62541689and the SCAR is the xm7 of the GWOTand xm7 will end up exactly precisely like the SCAR
>>62541719The Army never tried to replace the M4 with the SCAR.
>>62541763did they try with the xm7?
>>62541765The Army is literally buying hundreds of thousands of M7 and replacing the M4 in frontline units with them, so yes.
Does the Army still have the retarded idea to lose lower power training ammo? What happened to "train as you fight, fight as your train"? When in a combat zone and given the "real deal" ammo for the first time a of guys wont be shooting as well as they did back stateside using the low power stuff? Army failing to remember basic lessons learned during the course of its history.
>>62541765>>62541780While they're not outright fully replacing the M4, they're certainly replacing a large chunk of the M4s being used by frontline combat troops.You don't buy 110,000 rifles if you're not planning to issue them at a fairly wide scale.
>Korean war happens>Long distance shooting in barren mountainous terrain>US Mil adopts M14, a rifle decent at that kind of combat but utter shit at anything else>US gets involved in vietnam war, close distance jungle fighting where the M14 sucks ass>Afghan war happens>Long distance shooting in barren mountainous terrain>US Mil adopts XM7 (M14-2 Electric Boogaloo), a rifle decent at that kind of combat but utter shit at anything else>WWIII kicks off, it's Verdun-style trench raiding warfare where the XM7 sucks assIt's like poetry, it rhymes.Time is a flat circle. Cycles.
>>62540865>lmfao, may we see the state of the art hidden burgerwaffe?the greatest newest GMLRS is an extended range variant that lockheed are just now testing in White SandsUkraine definitely haven't been getting the newest ATACMS replacement, PrSM
>>62541874they should supplement the XM7 with an M4 in .300 AAC or whatever their latest meme is (6.8 SPC?) and a barrel with a pencil profilemaybe a lightweight freefloat handguardcontract out a full auto cassette trigger to larue or somebody I dunnoM4A2 carbine lol
>>62540189XM157 compensates for drop anyway, an extra 50 or 60 FPS isn't going to make much of a difference.>>62541808The training bullet is only 7gr lighter and it seems like it's still high pressure because it also has the hybrid case. Probably won't make a big difference, on the other hand it probably won't actually save that much money.
>>62541825Do you know how long it took the Army to replace the M16 with the M4? They don't buy every rifle in the first procurement year, as more M7 get procured more M4 will get sorted to secondary and tertiary roles.
>>62541874Anon we used a rifle in .30-06 in Korea.The M14 got replaced by the M16 in Vietnam in large part because the M14 was a shitty rifle.
>>62541874>Army adopts .30-40 krag as a replacement for .45-70 government>Army adopts .30-03 Springfield as a replacement for .30-40 krag>Army adopts .30-06 Springfield as a replacement for .30-03 Springfield>Army adopts .308 Winchester as a replacement for .30-06 Springfield>Army adopts an intermediate cartridge, .223 Remington, for the first time ever, as a replacement for .308 Winchester>Army goes back in time to the 1950s and adopts a full power cartridge, 6.8 Common Cartridge, as a replacement for .223 Remington
>>62542096At that point why not just make it the same pressure and bullet weight but just make it a simple solid projectile instead of whatever fancy steel core setup the real deal ammo must have?The whole program to me seems like a mishmash of questionable requirements that delute some other fundamentally good ideas and improvements.
>>62542122M14 was a fine rifle by early 1950s standards. The development of an M1 Garand successor dragged on a long time despite some promising 30-06 prototypes existing by the end of WWII.
>>62542220Because production lines for the 113gr copper projectile already existed.
>>62542250>M14 was a fine rifle by early 1950s standards.It really wasn't though, the T48 was a much better rifle and ordinance would have been in service years earlier than 1957.
>>62541017>this is the best Siggers can come up withIf it was truly that much better you’d be rubbing all the advantages in their faces, and clearly showing why those advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Instead you’re saying their will be seething over a decision that people don’t like. ARfags want to keep them rifles and they can. Why would they be upset?
>>62541902>the yooookraine isnt getting stuff that the US doesnt even have yetwow what news!but outside this burgerwaffe mlrs upgrade, they got literally every state of the art weapon system the west has to offer, save continent destabilizing missiles
>>62541874>trying to get the army to make wise decisions
>>62542345they're just a disposal house for shit we're replacing lolso we're replacing everything!!!!!
>>62542305T48 production could have been fucked up for several years like M14 production was. The FAL is easier to build sure, but they would still try the idea they had to decentralize production like with the M14.As for their actual qualities as a rifle I'd say they were pretty equivalent. FAL has some more "modern" features but the entire US military was very familiar with the M1 Garand by that time and most of the basics of how to shoot and maintain were the same or close enough. Same manual of arms pretty much.An M14 after they got the quality issues sorted out is probably a tad more accurate than the FAL, similar weight, maybe harder to strip and clean but no worse than the M1 which is the rifle many American soldiers would have trained on. The wooden furniture was a problem in jungle conditions but they were testing composite/plastic furniture. The same issue was a problem back in the Pacific in WWII so its not like it was unique to the M14.The M16 offered a fundamental improvement to the nfantry squad (once the problems that caused an awful introduction to Army-wide service were corrected). The FAL really was generally the same where not much would have changed.
>>62542096>XM157 compensates for drop anyway,Yeah good point. You’re right. Kinda changing topic but that’s why I hate when people argue the scope as some massive advantage for the XM7. Any rifle can use that scope. It is great and I’m glad the military is adding it. But you could use it for 5.56 or whatever.
>>62542345>they got literally every state of the art weapon system the west has to offerVatnik cope is always amusing.
>>62542198Does this mean in 50-60 years we’re back to fuckhuge bullets in single shots? I like that timeline
>>62542345So you finally agree the US is sending our leftovers. Like I originally said at the beginning of this
>>62542360with what?and when?>>62542380what didnt they get that I missed?>>62542388i fundamentally disagreeukraine has demonstrably received the best and only weapons the west producesnone of it is "leftover" as the vast majority comes from european nations who literally have nothing else, who are sending the only copies of whatever system they sent, they ownednone of it is "surplus" there is no "surplus" of anything, anywhere in the west, especially not europe
>>62542384>2086>US Space force adopts new trapdoor Springfield made of advanced carbon nano tube polymers, Iridium alloys, metallic glass, and synthetic sapphire, shooting caseless .50/70gov
>>62542388You have to understand, when the vatniks say "Patriot" or "GMLRS" they are viewing them like Russia systems which are static due to their nature of being Soviet era handmedowns, the idea that "Patriot" refers to a wide family of radar and missile systems spanning decades is a foreign concept.
>>62542105The army only plans (at the moment) to buy 111,000 M7's over a 10 year period.The NEXT 10 years they might buy more, but that's gonna be 2031+.
>>62542431>demonstrably received the best and only weapons the west produces>none of it is "leftover">in reply to a post showing it’s US leftoversJust because they’re getting Abrams and Leopards doesn’t mean it’s the newest model of either. You can disagree all you want. You’re still wrong.
>>62542490Europe seems to be partially demilitarizing by sending some their stuff to the front but then they're buying F-35 from the US so I dunno
>>62542250The SKS had existed for over 10 years at that point already so no. The M14 was not "fine" in the 50's. It was outdated.
>>62542448haha yah, because the one thing Russia doesnt have in huge varieties is AA systems>>62542490lmfao i love when you dipshits call it "leftovers"leftovers from what?europe literally dismantled its defense capabilities to send everything they had to ukraine because >"its made to fight Russians anyway"without having anything but promises of f35s in the 2030's
>>62542579>the one thing Russia doesnt have in huge varieties is AA systemsWhich are almost universally Soviet era handmedowns, static and unchanging over the last 30+ years. Hence the vatniks inability to comprehend the difference between a new Patriot missile in 1991 and 2024
>>62542579What do you keep saying Europe when I’m specifically talking about the US? Also it’s not like Europe would fight Russia without the US. Nor would the US intervene if say France and Germany went to war.
>>62542250The M14 was a dumpster fire and is soundly outperformed by an M1 and a shoe string.
