>Philip McBride, managing director of Thales Belfast, the company responsible for manufacturing the weapon, explains what makes Starstreak and Martlet so effective.>Starstreakhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1LPOPeM-Y>Martlethttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoJwU3QnExYIntriguing
Should have been named McBribe
Have you apologised yet?
Is starstreak effective? I only know of one chopper kill which makes Stugna-P a more effective anti-air system.I get not every attack is recorded so do we even have wreckage with dart holes?
>>62673297There is zero chance our resident autist doesn't drown this thread in a sea of his samefagging.
>>62673297>develop good, but kind of odd, missile with Starstreak>follow it up with another Blowpipe derivative and continue using those retarded non folding finsYou're not leveraging existing stocks of Blowpipes or components to save money, since production ended 31 years ago, or saving your customers money by making it usable with launchers they already had, since Blowpipe was shoulder fired and Martlet is vehicle mounted.Why does Thales continue to iterate on one of the worst guided missiles in history.
>>62673937>Blowpipe was shoulder fired and Martlet is vehicle mountedMartlet (LMM) can be launched from anything that launches Starstreak, including the MANPAD launcher
>>62673937Because it's a cheap multi-purpose missile in an era where cheap multi-purpose missiles are looking increasingly necessary. Fast attack craft, drones, light armor etc. They're like 50k USD a shot, you can afford to throw them at pretty much anything. A single Wildcat helicopter can carry like 20 of the things too.
>>62673937Martlet fins fold.
>>62674103Front and rear.
Martlet's a solid idea. Russia are copying it for their TKB-1055 anti-drone missile for Pantsir since the guns are ineffective.
>>62674103>>62674125It still uses the slide through rear fin mechanism that requires the use of the bulky tube.
>>62674281 No, it reduces tube width, otherwise the whole tube would be a larger diameter.
>>62674361Just like the Blowpipe did?
>>62673937Because it's one of the best guided missiles in history.
>>62674404Yes, that's why the tube changes length, it's a very clever way to maximise missile volume while still keeping it it man portable, which is why LMM and starstreak have a monstrous range/NEZ advantage over their competitors to the point where they are still viable weapons when they equipepd to vehicles/aircaft/vessels
>>62673937Just because the blowpipe sucked ass doesn't mean every design decision that went into it does. As far as I'm aware the main limitation of the blowpipe was that it was manually guided and hard to maintain sights on target through the launch process (like the M47 dragoon).
>>62677605Blowpipe didn't even suck, it was designed to meet a specific problem and it only saw combat much later (technologically speaking) in an environment it wasn't meant for.Blowpipe was designed to give infantry a way to engage slow moving, heavily armoured gunships and attack aircaft from the front while not getting spoofed.There was nothing that could do that because things like redeye were rear aspect only and ate flares for fun while having a smallest warhead.Instead of being used by experienced AA teams against hinds and frogfoots over Europe where engagement ranges were shorter, it was used in the Falklands against fast jets in wide open terrain by troops that hasn't even trained on them, and frankly by people who were shooting them off for fun from the decks of ships.Anyway, technology moved on, small IR seekers became all aspect (although still like eating flares or getting dazzled to an extent) and MCLOS was no longer the right solution. In its ultimate evolution we ended up with starstreak which is a superb missile bug not as important as Martlet as Ariel threats get cheaper and more numerous.
>>62673334Why?
>>62674042Such a blissful expression
>>62678125A man who knows where his missile is
>>62677939Presumably he thinks that Thales Belfast may be giving the arms industry a bad name for corruption.
I'm an absolute brainlet. How exactly does Starstreak work? Do the separate arrows have their own motors?pls explain it to me like I'm 12
>>62678972No motors, pure inertia after reaching +1000 m/s.They're similar to tank darts but with a tiny lens in the base to home in the center of a laser beam with a special pattern (like a grid). It's a "2/3rd gen" beam ridding
>>62678972
>>62679205This sounds highly prone to failure.
>>62679271It's immune to jamming and countermesures. It also has a larger no escape zone than any other man portable missile.
Do British own anything these days?
>>62679288But it requires the operator to keep the tube pointed *exactly* at a target the whole way, which may in turn be maneuvering. Any flinch, and it's a miss.
>>62679377Do you not know what country Belfast is in?
>>62679447>the whole wayAt maximum range it has a flight time of like 5 seconds. That being the worst case scenario.>which may in turn be maneuveringPotentially. Unlike other MANPADs Starstreak doesn't provide early warning to enemy aircraft though, so you're not likely to be dealing with evasive actions on their part. The pedestal and vehicle mounts have automatic targeting of course.
>>62679447No it doesn't, the operator points in the general direction, selects the specific target with the joystick and then the base unit tracks it and steers the laser grid.
>>62679652>Unlike other MANPADs Starstreak doesn't provide early warning to enemy aircraft thoughDo fighters not have laser warning receivers?Helos would, wouldn't they?
>>62679969What is the countermeasure to a laser beam riding weapon?
>>62680368Attacking the laser projector and its crew. Beam riders are considered antiques for good reason; but British cope is a cut above the Russian kind so midwits fall over each other justifying how HESH is relevant, rifled tank cannons make sense, or Starstreak is great.
>>62673297>What makes Starstreak and Martlet so effectiveThe missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
>>62680395>Attacking the laser projectorHow easy is that to manage in the five seconds or so before impact?
>>62680395explosives ain't relevant?rifling doesn't make sense?a missle going mach 3 isn't great?
>>62679532>Do you not know what country Belfast is in?hell?
>>62680431nta but HESH is an extremely poor anti armor round against any sort of spaced or composite armor and rifled MBT guns do not make sense in the modern day
>>62680411Look at where the laser warning is pointing and spray bullets or launch bombs/missiles at it. This is why non fire and forget missiles became obsolete as ATGMs in the 1960s.>>62680431>a sharp stick won't kill you?
>>62680487>This is why non fire and forget missiles became obsolete as ATGMs in the 1960s.are you trolling or just retarded I can't tell
>>62680515You're unaware of military missile or tank history so even entry-level knowledge is too much for you, leading you to laugh at it. A common symptom of ignorance. Start here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_Warhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
>>62679969>Do fighters not have laser warning receivers?Starstreak paints a 2d matrix rather than beaming the target directly with a laser designator. It's hypothetically possible it could be detected, but the instruments would have to be significantly more sensitive than they are at present to do so.
>>62680487>Look at where the laser warning is pointing and spray bullets or launch bombs/missiles at itIf this isn't the dumbest thing I read all day I'll disappointed. 1. you're almost certainly NOT going to get an early warning from a Starstreak targeting you. 2. Even if you did, the amount of time it takes to identify, range and target the source is absolutely going to take longer than 5 seconds (which is your best case scenario, in all likelihood you're looking at sub 3 seconds). That's time that would be better spent evading, for what good it'd do you.
>>62680559you're right, dune coons couldn't use them so they're obsolete, that's why the TOW has never once been used to any success
>>62680451I mean, 'Norn Iron' is part of the UK, and it is definitely doing its best, but basically, yes.
>>62679969Because starstreak paints a grid that the missiles look back at rather than a very bright laser that reflects off the target detection is very unlikely. And at mach 4.5 you're not getting away, it's like trying to dodge a guided tank sabot x 3
>>62680487>Look at where the laser warning is pointing and spray bullets or launch bombs/missiles at it.All of which travel slower than starstreak btw, so even a simultaneous launch with a perfect reaction means the target loses. It's almost like starstreak was designed for dealing with pop up targets head on.
>>62681664It paints the laser grid on the target.
>>62681681At the target, not on it. Most other laser guided weapons require the laser to reflect off the target, starstreak etc look back to see where in the grid they are. As the base unit predicts impact point that grid would be ply overlap at the last moments for a crossing target.
If you don't like starstreak there's a 90% chance you're either a vatnick or sniff farts and had your house destroyed by a hurricane last night.
>>62679652No MANPADS provides radar warning though
>>62680368>What is the countermeasure to a laser beam riding weapon?Smoke or dodge, I suppose. The comment was in reference to the being no warning, I'm not sure that's necessarily true though.
>>62680739>Starstreak paints a 2d matrix rather than beaming the target directly with a laser designator.That matrix is going to be on the actual target though isn't it?For the darts to ride the beam, the beam has to point at the target.If you're lasing the target then it seems like it would be detectable and an aircraft sensor ought to be more sensitive than a missile sensor.
>>62680759>Even if you did, the amount of time it takes to identify, range and target the source is absolutely going to take longer than 5 secondsDon't LWR systems on tanks automatically detect and target the laser instantly?
>>62681814You're confusing LWR with APS. Also tank don't fly.
>>62681813Kinda talking out of my ass here, but I don't think most aircraft have dedicated LWRs in the same way that ground systems do. Given that there are only a handful of SAMs that use laser guidance it would be kinda pointless. Their receivers seem more tuned to missile launch warning by picking up on a plume than detecting a guidance beam.
>>62681813>That matrix is going to be on the actual target though isn't it?NTA but a child could figure out how to use a grid coordinate system to plot a target position without requiring the X and Y axes to intersect the target>>62679447how hard is it to point a tube at an airplane? if a guy with a camcorder can do it, it's not rocket surgery for a MANPADS operator
>>62680559Fire and forget missiles for ground systems are a comparatively recent introduction and didn't start seriously proliferating until after 2000. Most ATGMs, especially heavier ones, were and still are wire guided. TOW, MILAN, fagot and kornet, swingfire, HOT, eryx... They all use MCLOS, or later SACLOS guidance.
>>62673297I love using these on the Stormer in Wargame red dragon, two of them can slaughter entire BMP rushes
>>62682013>the Stormer in Wargame red dragonthey're a reliable helicopter killer for meI don't like wasting their ammo on light armoured vehicles
>>62681715>>62681889See: >>62679205Stop being retarded.
>>62682143>if I paint a net the laser warning receivers don't triggeridiot childclearly the laser beams bracket the target, they don't go ON it
>>62682143Cry about it
>>62682154>>62682179Are you 2 brown or just pretending to be stupid?
>>62682211>brownspeak for yourself, retardI repeat:>a child could figure out how to use a grid coordinate system to plot a target position without requiring the X and Y axes to intersect the target
>>62682211Are you clutching at straws or can you name a single system that's designed to to warn - and then do something effective - against non reflected illumination?
>>62682231>>62682242>they still can't figure out how light worksNice to see you pakis enjoying british technology for once but please stop polluting the board.
>>62682257Nice freak out. Just to be clear you think a LWR will alert if a laser passes by it's sensor and doesn't hit it? You also think that light of any intensity sets of a LWR? Have you heard of false positives by any chance?I note with glee that you can't name this magical system that will counter starstreak.
>>62682272Just to be clear you think starstreak will notice if a laser passes by it's sensor and doesn't hit it? That is the problem, I don't care about LWRs.
>>62682295Lol you still don't get it. Starstreak steers to correct it's course depending on where in the grid is it is, if you're in the middle of the grid - on target - you don't need course corrections, you just keep flying straight.Go play some games of operation and you might figure out it out.
>>62682307>they still can't figure out how light works Sad.
>>62682314>t. doesn't understand how an X-Y graph works
>>62682104It's not a waste to shoot light vehicles because their pen value is so assAlthough that does make it risky to keep them in the frontline too
>>62682314Just cone out and say you think a LWR is triggered regardless of of light intensity.
>>62673297Starstreak seems like a meme to me.>what if instead of single explody missile we put three non explody ones in here>dude awesome! that's triple crit chance!It actually hitting anything amazes me
>>62682373They are explody
>>62682330they're also better than Rapier so they really shouldn't be riskedbut yeah they're occasionally useful if any IFVs happen to get behind the front line
>>62681889>how hard is it to point a tube at an airplane?Hang on I have data on this, let me just convert an mp4 from Telegram.You really need to hear the TONE.https://files.catbox.moe/734wcq.mp4Source: https://t.me/noel_reports/18673
>>62682403gorgeousit's so fast though. seems like hardly any time elapsed between launch and hit.
>>62673297Why did the frogs name their defense industry conglomerate after an ancient Greek philosopher?
>>62682428ackshually, they named it after a Jew
>>62682424>it's so fast though. seems like hardly any time elapsed between launch and hit.FYI These are Stingers, not Starstreak. Starstreak is somewhat faster at Mach 3 vs mach 2.2.
>>62682443Mach 4+ at burnout
>>62682428No joke, they thought it would sound cooler to young people than Thomson-CSF
>>62682474>burnoutisn't that before it leaves the tube?
>>62682501No, it's two stage, one smaller motor to get it a safe distance away from the operator and then an almighty one to get it up to speed. On burnout the weapon releases the three explosive tungsten darts and they'll be doing around mach 3.7 at around 9km which is enough energy to beat a target pulling 9g and still have energy for a kinetic armour penetration.
>>62682322>you can detect light even when it doesn't reach your sensors What an amazing technology.
>>62683055Light does reach the missile sensor. It reaches the LWR sensor as well.However, many other natural and man-made sources of light and secondary reflections of lasers away from the point of origin also reach these sensors - that's why LWRs need to filter out light sources that aren't a threat and only look for light sources of particular bandwidths and intensities, and SAL-seekers and rangefinders need to operate on these signals that stand out significantly from background sources.Beam-riders don't need to stand out from background so much, because the seeker is always facing the emitter - so long as it doesn't loose sight of that completely, it's unlikely to confuse its target for another light source
>>62683151NTA but >Beam-ridersSome beam riders, not all. For some reason it's a minority of laser guided weapons that look backwards not forwards.
>>62683591Different kind of laser-guided weapon.SAL-seekers like Hellfire, Brimstone 2, AGM-65E look forward and look for reflected laser radiation painted on a target.Laser beam-riders such as Starstreak, Vikhr, RBS 70, Refleks have rear-facing sensors
>>62673826>There is zero chance our resident autist doesn't drown this thread in a sea of his samefagging.I think he may be having 'issues' lately. His trolling has become half hearted.Low in frequency and low in quality.I honestly hope he's turned a corner.
>>62684162His house probably got flattened by the hurricane
>>62684197We can only hope. Maybe it will at least make him realise how he's wasting his life on stuff that will never matter.
>>62684570>Maybe it will at least make him realise how he's wasting his life on stuff that will never matter.None of it matters.But that doesn't mean you should become a griefer. Live life doing the things that make you and those you care about happy or proud.
>bong engineeringLOLt. germanic engineer
>>62683055>you HAVE to travel exactly along the axis of a laser instead of offset because YOU JUST HAVE TO MMKAYA child could figure out how to use a grid coordinate system to plot a target position without requiring the X and Y axes to intersect the target
>>62685175Anon I like your enthusiasm but you are too dumb for this discussion.
>>62686448alright, I'll give you this one chancehere's how I think Starstreak (which, if you remember, was designed from the start to avoid anti-MANPADS countermeasures) avoids triggering aircraft defensive suitesthe system is described as having two tracking lasers, one scanning vertically, one scanning horizontally, and the operator is required to bracket the targetwhat I would do is have Laser X scan horizontally, have Laser Y scan vertically, and program the missile to ride the lasers OFFSET; e.g. to the "right" of laser X and "above" laser Y, as shown in the image below assuming that this is what the operator seesthus the lasers are not on the target at all and should hopefully not trigger any laser countermeasures receivers, but still effectively guides the beam-riding missiletell me why it wouldn't work
>>62673806>starstreakUkies claimed its not very.
there it isthere's the fartsniffing faggot
>>62686724>how I thinkSo you don't know. See >>62683055 and try to think about what you are missing.
>>62687647>So you don't knowNeither do you>Seeyour speculation? I've seen it. I don't think it's convincing.
>>62687650>speculation?That isn't a speculation. Wtf are you talking about?
>>62687750>That isn't a speculationYes, it isYou don't know how Starstreak works, you're just speculating based on the description released to the public.
they silently removed the starstreak from service entirely in favor of the marrlet. there never was a single star streak missile in ukraine
>>62688223What aren't you getting you esl? You think I was speculating that it can detect light without it reaching the sensor? I was mocking you. I will stop replying to you, it is pointless.
>62688637BRAAAPPPPPP
