>>62700899
esl.

That would be a waste of time.
SW/ST/space combat/Muv Luv/gundam/CoaDE/EVE autists are dysfunctional and keep repeating the same stupids 'arguments'. They already have an well established 'power system' that can't be questioned so it wouldn't be /k/ but /lit/-/m/.

>>62700889
I think the last time we had the thread the verdict was that they're actually cost-effective as an occupational force even if they suck in a straight confrontation.

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Can someone translate what OP is trying to say?

>>62701042
how good they would be in IRLwars?

>>62700889
Star Wars armies fight in a manner that would be embarrassingly out of date in the Napoleonic times. They literally spray incoherently at each other from inside rock throwing distance, and many of their infantry engagements end up as a disorganized brawl fist to fist.

>>62700889
With the engagement ranges and effective envelope for the blasters as seen on screen (under 150yds), probably post-pike blocks but pre mass issue of smoothbores (flint lock). Minute of Man at 80 yards, increasingly dodgey beyond that; bow and arrow/melee weapons not totally irrelevant in irregular terrain. That, or mercenary aliens in the current day being folded into Western militaries that makes McNamera's 100 look like MENSA members.

>>62700889
>when ESLs mock other ESLs for not understanding the language, but just out themselves by not being capable of using basic reasoning skills or context.
What you meant to say was something like, "Have any autists compared the combat effectiveness of these pieces of shit to IRL weapons."

>>62700889
>All the advantages of robots
>Able to move like a Human
>AI way more advanced than anything we have today
If they existed for real, they would unironically be some of the best weapons available
They were shit in the movies because Lucas needed disposable evil goons for the good guys to slaughter, like the stormtroopers in the OT
Realistically, they would be dangerous and terrifying for the average Joe

>>62701600
They were mostly for bullying average joes, suppressing strikes, murdering primitive aliens and such.. They had to upgrade the AI once the war started.

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>>62700889
the ones in the Phantom Menace were remote controlled from orbit, they had no combat skills of their own.
>>62701444
>Star Wars armies fight in a manner that would be embarrassingly out of date in the Napoleonic times.
in the first prequel they fought in giant blocks that turned into a disorganized melee in moments after contact with a force of tribals with spears and rocks, in the second prequel they fought in loose order across much wider battle lines. I think that you need to cut the CIS some slack since they've never fought a war before and at least early on every new tactic and strategy probably requires a software update rather than a commander just issuing new orders. By the third prequel they have hired General Grievous, who was a tribal war leader from a backwater planet with actual wartime experience to help them improve things, and in that movie they are seen conducting combined arms operations, although admittedly they do it poorly. If ol' Sheevy hadn't pulled a fast one on them they probably would have had a competent military within a few years.
>>62701600
>They were shit in the movies because Lucas needed disposable evil goons for the good guys to slaughter
True, but he did a good job explaining why this time, the B1 droids were extremely cheap and could fold up for transport. The trade federation used them in the Phantom Menace because they were very cost efficient and the plan was just to blockade and occupy a planet with no military. There were better droids on the market, but the B1 was all they really needed until Anakin blew up their control ship. Later in the war they continued to be used, but the B2 was used when they thought the B1 wouldn't be enough.
>Realistically, they would be dangerous and terrifying for the average Joe
individually they wouldn't be a huge threat, the platform was designed to be cheap and disposable, but each one is still quite capable of causing harm and couldn't be ignored.

Getting a lot of fake engagement threads today, what gives

>>62701664
The important thing about B1s is that in spite of their crap performance against an organized military, they still 'need' military-grade equipment to confront; their armor is 'just' durable enough to withstand a slugthrower pistol and their blasters, though short-ranged, are fully automatic, have at least a 200 round capacity, and will melt through a ballistic vest like it isn't there.

Granted, their situational awareness is poor which would make them easy to ambush in a defensive situation, but when they're on the offensive all of them have thermal vision to weed out partisans under concealment.

>>62701753
>The important thing about B1s is that in spite of their crap performance against an organized military, they still 'need' military-grade equipment to confront
It's more that they need to be dealt with at all. A unit of B1s sent out to secure some location means that location is now in CIS hands, so the GAR needs to allocate something to deal with it, and the GAR doesn't have enough men to defend with every place that comes under attack by B1s or to retake every place they have garrisoned with them. On a tactical level each B1 is still capable of killing whoever the republic sends to deal with them if they hit them, so they can't be taken lightly and need to be treated just as seriously as a combatant that costs ten times what they do.
>their armor is 'just' durable enough to withstand a slugthrower pistol
I seriously doubt that. They are tossed around like ragdolls whenever somebody fights them hand to hand, so they can't be made of anything that tough.

>>62700889
I'm always so impressed how well the droid CGI from Episode 1 holds up

While they look like useless wastes of space in the Phantom Menace, there is value to just having a huge supply of brainless automatons that mindlessly walk towards positions. Meatwaves serve a tactical purpose, and metalwaves would be no different. It is vastly inferior to having real soldiers with real abilities, but if I were assaulting a position and I could choose to send in 100 clankers with Stormtrooper aim and no self-preservation I'd do that. Who cares if they get totalled? They're just clankers. I wouldn't rely on them though, their equivalent is disposable drones.

>>62701854
Yeah, it's pretty good. I think they just mesh really well with the digital backgrounds, where real flesh and blood human actors stand out more. Any piece of CGI with a human in the frame looks like dogshit, but when the CGI characters are doing their own thing it looks pretty good.

>>62701854
>>62701900
Weren't they full-scale models whose limbs were animated by CGI?

>>62701921
In the wide-shots where they fight the jedi knights I think you're correct. When it's close-ups of them talking that's pure CGI (but probably using a scan of the actual prop). A lot of the battle scenes are quick cuts between the wide-screen and then a close up of the prop being activated or pushed over, and it's been a while since I saw the movie (15 years?) so I couldn't tell for sure. But I do know that they used physical battle droid props so simply CGIing the limbs does sound right. It's a shame that they gave up on props for the sequel, even if the CGI looks pretty good by the time of the third movie, it is still CGI. Seeing one of those droid tanks from Kashyyk blow up, but being a real life-size prop, would be cool. Props are cool, tip your propmaker.

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B1s suck individually, but that's fine because B2s and armor do most of the killing anyways.
Ideally, I would the CIS make heavy use of hammer and anvil tactics. B1s, Hailfires, the various Spiders, and MTTs would be the anvil while organic troops, B2s, and Droidekas would function as the hammer. I would even go so far as to equip each organic squad with a droideka or 2.

>>62701900
>It is vastly inferior to having real soldiers with real abilities
you say that, but the clone troopers in their first battle were only marginally better. Initially nobody on either side knew what the fuck they were doing and probably got all their ideas of how to do war from fictional depictions of old wars. Imagine if there was world peace for like 500 years from the middle ages until now, and then everyone had to figure out how to fight now that we have jet airplanes and radios and shit. People would do some fucking retarded shit for the first few battles.
>their equivalent is disposable drones.
that's not their equivalent, they literally are that. The ones in the first prequel aren't even autonomous, they are remote controlled from orbit.
>>62702201
>the CIS make heavy use of hammer and anvil tactics.
I'd say a better tactic would be to use something akin to deep battle type tactics. Send MTT full of B1s around to secure every single potential place that could have value to you or your enemy, and wherever they meet resistance that they can't handle, you have an MTT full of droids fully unload and disperse to fix them in place while the rest of them bypass it and continue on to other objectives while you send in the heavier stuff. The GAR doesn't have the numbers to defend everything, even just against a few B1s.
>I would even go so far as to equip each organic squad with a droideka or 2.
Give each organic squad an attached MTT full of B1s, CIS organic troops are thin on the ground as it is, so make sure they never are in a position where they have to take risks themselves.

>>62702310
>so make sure they never are in a position where they have to take risks themselves
The CIS has really good organic troops though. Why waste them like that? I want them to be mobile and to actually fight.

>>62702592
>Why waste them like that?
Why is it a waste to give the best troops better equipment? B1s are fairly autonomous and MTTs are pretty mobile, so attaching an MTT full of them to a squad of CIS organic troops would mean that the CIS squad would always be able to deploy some B1s to screen retreats or secure their flanks. The MTT doesn't need to be right there with them all the time, they can have it hang back if it's going to get in the way or if they need to move faster than it can keep up they can just leave it behind and let it catch up. The point is to put it at their disposal so they can use it if they need it.

>>62700889
It's a show for retarded children of all ages.

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pew pew pew

>>62701444
>They literally spray incoherently at each other
Why wouldnt you? E11s hold 500 shots, and stormtroopers carry multiple spare gas mags; and I have to assume battle droid blasters have a similar capacity. If you've got a nearly recoilless gun with effectively bottomless mags and no obvious heat constraints, there would be no reason not to magdump on everything.

this is a good thread, a good thread
however

Imagine Star Wars tech without the movie magic constraints of nonsense short range and zero accuracy except for the heros

>>62702310
>The ones in the first prequel aren't even autonomous, they are remote controlled from orbit.
I remember how I was watching Terminator 4 and the moment it was revealed skynet has just widespread all across the internet was a huge gatcha moment, granted it was more of an asspull point but it was still so good to see a script writer ignoring the old "hit the command post" trope, Naboo would have been screwed so badly if they had distributed the serve around multiple ships and mobile command vehicles.

>>62703468
>I remember how I was watching Terminator 4 and the moment it was revealed skynet has just widespread all across the internet
that was terminator 3, it was the one with the titties.
>granted it was more of an asspull point but it was still so good to see a script writer ignoring the old "hit the command post" trope
I know a lot of people got butthurt about that, but I think that if skynet had become sapient it would obviously distribute its computing if it was able to modify its own code.
>Naboo would have been screwed so badly if they had distributed the serve around multiple ships and mobile command vehicles.
Anakin would have just had to pull a little more bullshit out of his ass. He was the space messiah, nothing could have stopped him. He already derped his way into a fighter craft, derped his way into getting control of it, derped his way through the fighter screen, derped his way past the point defenses, derped his way into the fucking hangar, and then spazzed out at the controls and managed to fire missiles at critical pieces of hardware instead of ejecting himself into the hangar that probably didn't even have atmosphere. The kid was so lucky it's amazing he didn't somehow jizz out winning lottery tickets whenever he had a wet dream.

they do very well when they're fighting non-heroes

so, that combined with cost effectiveness, b1 battledroids will be better than humans.

>>62703312
They also MISS most of their shots at rock throwing range, dingus.


>>62703664
>they do very well when they're fighting non-heroes
Only because the non heroes also fight worse than Napoleonic infantry, standing bolt upright in the open using weapons that cant render the infantry column irrelevant.

Somehow you just know General Grievous is fucking these things in their RS232 port

>>62702310
>how to do war from fictional depictions of old wars
I only really care about the movies as distinct from all other tie-in media because I am not going to read comic books or watch cartoons to justify those bad movies. That said the idea that no one knew how to fight is ludicrous. Generations of peace doesn't mean galactic scale generations of peace, and I am sure all the tie-in media points out people were butchering each other daily anyway. Maybe the Galactic Republic were at peace but there is no reason to not believe its members didn't fight wars with outsides, or outsiders with each other. The far easier explanation is:

>Droids were made to be disposable soldiers within the logic of the universe
>Droids were made to be disposable bad guys for the heroes to look cool defeating outside the logic of the universe
>Droids are necessarily terrible combatants
When they were no longer necessary to be fodder with the second and third movie, they became capable combatants to give the clones an adversary that would be interesting to watch fight. No NATO country has been invaded since its inception, but that doesn't mean NATO countries don't know how to fight.

With all that out of the way, by the third movie those droids are doing all kinds of crazy shit. They're swinging electric clubs around, and kicking, and jumping. Those droids, which I am gathering from this thread are called B2s, seem pretty great. Who wouldn't want those guys?

>>62703245
This. This is a very important thing to keep in mind.

>>62700889
Late model fully autonomous B-1s with better programming (they were intentionally gimped as part of Palpatine's plot) would revolutionize warfare. Expendable war robots you can crank out by the millions that take nothing but a weapon, ammo, and some charging from time to time. Episode 1 era B-1s would be shit without an ungodly capable computing system and transmitters you wouldn't want to stand near.

Versus our militaries today they'd be a nightmare for infantry. The M-7 might actually have been just in time. Battle rifles would be the bare minimum for dealing with them. Vehicles however would eviscerate them. The problem is "Holy fuck there's so many of them!" and eventually fuel and ammo will run out. Most combat aircraft would also work great so long as the pilots are not dumb enough to get too close. What would REALLY shine against them is strategic bombers and nukes.

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>>62704277
From left to right.
>2 B-1s
>2 B-2s
>1 BX Commando Droid
>2 IG-100 Magnaguards (electric staff guys)
>1 Droideka

>>62704307
Oh, I thought B2 was like software upgrades for the B1s to justify why they stopped being useless. We always called B2 "Super Battle Droid", but why I don't know. Maybe it was from a game.

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>>62704317
B2s were officially also called Super Battle Droids and SBDs
in fact "Super Battle Droid" is the more common terminology, not B2

>>62704277
>They're swinging electric clubs around
those are Grievous's IG-100 MagnaGuards

they're extremely rare and expensive, which is why Grievous only uses them as his personal guard, because their staffs can parry Jedi lightsabers and they're stuffed full of the compact electronics that enable them to fight Jedi one-on-one. still suck against good Jedi of course but they could actually kill noobs and Padawans

>>62704317
"Super battle droid" how most people who aren't really that deep into the lore refer to B-2s.

B-1s didn't really stop being useless unless you had lots of them even after the later models got full autonomy. Like I said, they were secretly gimped by Palpatine for his big war that he controlled both sides of. If they weren't gimped the Republic would've lost hard and fast simply due to being overwhelmed. If B-2s were churned out in B-1 numbers it would've been over similarly quickly as B-2s are a proper purpose built war droid.

>>62704324
The staves specifically are primarily made of an obscenely durable material called Phrik Alloy. It shits all over pretty much any other material for durability but is also obscenely expensive and rare due to how ridiculously hard to work it is. It's also undoubtedly more expensive than the IG-100 wielding it.

>>62704338
>It's also undoubtedly more expensive than the IG-100 wielding it.
maybe but don't underestimate the IG-100's implied cost: how many droids are there in the galaxy that can take on a Jedi one-on-one in melee combat

>>62701854
the hard surface stuff in general is still really impressive imo, it's the skin and organic character that look off mostly. saw it again during the recent theatrical rerelease and that plus the tremendous production design really draws you in to those scenes despite its age

>>62704343
They're both hideously expensive but the point is the staff is pretty much guaranteed notably more expensive than the also very expensive droid.

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>>62704307
This game was a missed opportunity to introduce a B3 fight.

They are actually good if you're not facing elite infantry that are mobile. The average family could afford 1-3 of these things as security/housekeeping since the cost of the droid is like half the cost of the battle droid package. They are the temu drones of the star wars galaxy and are severely underrated for their economic utility.

>>62704277
>I only really care about the movies as distinct from all other tie-in media
everything I'm talking about was in the movies.
>That said the idea that no one knew how to fight is ludicrous.
There were a lot of small scale conflicts and plenty of violence in the galaxy, but no major wars. Naboo for instance didn't even have a military, just palace guards. The Gungans for instance could assemble a tribal levy, but they were armed with spears and shields. To bring it back to the world peace on earth analogy, it's like expecting the newly belligerent powers to dig up African warlords to tell them how to fight. Which the CIS basically did with general Grievous, and the republic did the equivalent of hiring a mercenary from a culture with a strong warrior tradition to train their army. They got better fast, but the initial phases of fighting involved a lot of dumb ideas and rookie mistakes from both sides.
>No NATO country has been invaded since its inception, but that doesn't mean NATO countries don't know how to fight.
not a good analogy, the galactic republic didn't have an army, and neither did pretty much any of its constituent polities, and there was staunch resistance to creating one even when there was an enemy at the gates. A few thousand clone soldiers was pretty much the only thing that kept them from getting rolled without providing any opposition.
>>62704448
I have always felt that star wars spinoff media severely under-represents how common droid ownership would be. I feel like even poor households having a B1 or equivalent for security would make sense. CIS milsurp droids would be ubiquitous around the galaxy after the end of the clone wars, they were just too widespread for the Empire to track down and destroy.

>>62700889
>Why are the Star Wars robots so silly?
Because Star Wars is a children's franchise, you fucking sperg. Complaining that the battle droids are unrealistically shitty is like complaining that the Koopas in Mario or Robotnik's robots in Sonic don't feel like a professional fighting force. Grow up, faggot.

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>>62700889
The scariest thing is that equivalents of these shitters will be mass produced IRL within a decade, with Tesla's version costing $30k per, if we can believe Musk. Which means the bottom of the barrel chink version will be made for $5k or less.

>>62707204
>complaining that the Koopas in Mario or Robotnik's robots in Sonic don't feel like a professional fighting force.
Bowser's MO is actually fairly competent; he saturates his targets with Bullet Bill variants which are basically missiles and then marches his troops in after the target's ability to fight back is thoroughly destroyed.

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>>62707622
The new Teslabots turned out to be mechanical Turks. I wouldn't trust a promise from a company that basically just entered the space.
Atlas and Digit at least have videos of them actually doing shit on their own, and both BD and Agility have experience producing commercial robots.

>>62707193
>it's like expecting the newly belligerent powers to dig up African warlords to tell them how to fight.
it's actually extremely analogous to pulling up fuckwits like the Dutch and Belgians and getting them to put up a credible deterrence against Russia
especially back in 2014

this being real life, "Naboo" i.e. Donetsk could not be recaptured

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>>62701034
They would be fantastic as an occupation force. They can man checkpoints, and if the checkpoint gets blown up? Who gives a fuck? They're just droids. They don't get angry, they don't seek revenge when their squadmate gets sniped, they just stay there, checking papers and waving cars through for ever. They don't need feeding or rotating and they don't have to be cycled in and out and they don't have families to go home or miss them and get angry when they're explosively dismantled.
When they're on a house search they don't slide a hand up a twi-leks lekku or insult a gungan because they're bored, they hate the job and the gungans are an easy target because they're retarded and goofy. They don't even get bored. They don't lift money or jewellery on house searches. They don't cut deals with locals they like. They just sit there, manning checkpoints and bases forever. Perfection.
Almost every single guerrilla strategy is invalidated at a stroke. Almost every single partisan talking point or propaganda is invalidated.
There's a fucking reason why the American MIC is racing towards humanoid robots and it's these fuckers, right here.

annihilator droids could wipe out entire legions of clone troopers

Were both the B1s and B2s handicapped on fire rate? You'll think they would easily wipe out the Jedis on Geonosis especially in the arena. Yet a literal tsunami of driods was almost wiped out within minutes, yet were able to cut a decent amount of jedi scum.
https://youtu.be/cK5zMDVGF2Y

>>62700889
>children's movie robots
robot soldiers are either all-seeing instant reflex perfect aim horror machines or a comic relief. They will have aimed and fired before your brain even received information from your optic nerve. There is no other possibility.

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>>62700889
>>62701600
TL;DR, basically a thousand barely competent retards vs one professional soldier. Eventually he'll get over run or run out of boolets.

They have their uses. I guess the modern equivalent would be China copying and mass producing whatever the fuck Darpa is making nowadays and arming them with PSA 300BLK pistols and Hi-Points. Which sounds fucking terrifying if they could actually get that shit to work. Much like Holosun it doesn't matter if 2 out of 3 of them are duds and broke on arrival since they produce enough to make it not matter. Hence why I boycott Holosun, I'm trying to delay the inevitable.

>>62708818
>You'll think they would easily wipe out the Jedis on Geonosis especially in the arena.
You'd think they'd just bomb the place instead of trying to fight them, but I guess they probably just didn't think of that. Maybe the fire rate was limited because it was an arena full of Geonosians and the B1s do seem to suffer from even further reduced accuracy when firing full auto.

>>62709239
>You'd think they'd just bomb the place instead of trying to fight them
Jedi can Force Push rockets and bombs

in any case they were successful enough that they nearly annihilated the Jedi. out of 200 Jedi on Geonosis only about 30-plus survived, nearly all of them Masters. they killed, I think, two Council members and dozens of Masters as well. that's a pretty fucking good result.

>>62701042
you should be able to realize now that /k/ is being inundated with trashy ESL threads

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>>62709677
>Jedi can Force Push rockets and bombs
you literally never see them force push rockets or bombs out of the air in the movies. Even if the jedi can catch missiles and bombs out of the air, a battery of Hailfire droids could almost certainly have overwhelmed them with saturation fire.
>>62709690
This board existed well before the Ukraine war started, we used to have fun here all the time before you fags started shitting it up.

>>62707622
Did Musk plagiarize the design from i Robot?

>>62709677
Also Dooku wanted them to surrender so he was looking for hostages.
Also, they'd be blowing up the Genosisan's Arena if they just bombed the area, doubt they'd like that.

star wars weapons are not coherent at all
>OT
>Obi Wan: Blasters are clumsy and inaccurate weapons
>They're like a 1600's musket basically, stormtroopers can't hit the side of a barn, only useful up close
>fast forward to Prequels
>now blasters are deadly accurate sniping weapons

>>62708853
star wars robots are a bit different than that, they're artificial lifeforms with varying levels of intelligence like animals, they just lack the force (soul)

>>62710112
The stormtroopers can't hit the side of a barn because most of the targets have plot armor. If you look at the battle of Tantive IV, they're forced to breach through a single doorway that the rebels know they're coming from, which basically makes them fish in a barrel. They come out of it with only 2 or 3 down, while the enemy is routed and with a dozen or so casualties.

>Obi Wan
Do you think a jedi is going to have an objective, reasonable opinion about blasters? Not everyone is running around with the power of force-magic plot contrivance. If some magic-powered fucker could cut bullets of the air IRL, I bet you he'd have some stupid shit to say about modern guns being clumsy, too.
Probably some shit about his sword being folded over a million times.

>>62710093
Yeah, I-Robot owns the copyright to the human silhouette. Just like how Nintendo invented jumping, aiming, looking at things, and 80% of the animal kingdom (Disney invented the other 20%, along with breathing, and existing).

>>62701826
>They are tossed around like ragdolls whenever somebody fights them hand to hand, so they can't be made of anything that tough.
desu you probably don't need that much space age alloy to make something 9mm proof, and calling a B1 spindly would be generous. You put some light plating over the chest and the power pack and you're pretty much done.

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>>62707622
It will only get cheaper with time and scale.

I expect within 10 years we could get humanoid droids down to $1000 per unit at scale.

Likely won't happen since the demand is not there for it yet. Society has to have the desire, so lets put that on a 20 year track. Humanoid robots will be cheap with a few decades guaranteed. Whether you will want a cheap one is up to you.

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>>62711674
They aren't proof against the handguns of the setting, since they are killed with little pocket pistols in the phantom menace.

>>62713393
Those aren't slugthrowers, they're just small blasters.

>>62713412
so what? Basically nobody carries slugthrowers, even poor people have blasters. Protection against 9mm slugthrowers is at best going to help against a little bit of spalling and fragmentation.

>>62711674
>>62713412
>>62701826
>>62701753
Reminder that Starwars fags eternal lord and master Dave Filoniberg has written multiple sequences where a battledroid is killed by a thrown object smaller than a toaster, including a piece of fruit.

>>62712169
>>62707622
>20 minute battery life

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>>62714194
Filoni's animated series was always a pale imitation of the real thing.

>>62707193
Would be cool to watch some short movie about a B1 styled in the life of a bullet scene from Lord of War where it goes from being manufactured to used in the Clone Wars to being mothballed to being stolen/sold off to droid traders and eventually it winds up saving some poor family from some burglars or something while suffering fatal damage or something.

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>>62714363
That'd be great, they could do some cool shots, like a time lapse of it as the seasons roll by, until it is finally needed and it comes out of standby mode. It being put into folded up mode and dunked in a vat of space cosmoline and left in a warehouse on a shelf for a decade. I love the idea.

>>62714337
Being a kid when this was coming out was fucking grand

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Can we build dog bot armies right now that’d outperform the B1s?

>>62714495
Nope, robo-dogs have virtually zero endurance and need RC for guidance. They're basically just drones with legs whose main combat use has been as walking bombs.

>>62714989
Empty air not wasting resources is already better than a B1.

>>62715146
The benefit of the B1 is that it can hold ground without occupying an actual person;s attention.
Spot needs a guide in order to do shit because its AI is on the same level as ED-209 from Robocop where it can't tell the difference between a mobnik and the forces it's attached to. Like the sentry guns in the Korean Demilitarized Zone.

>>62715273
>The benefit of the B1 is that it can hold ground without occupying an actual person;s attention.
Hold ground against what? They literally cannot hold ground against anything.
They can't even effectively report information. They're worth less than a fucking landmine or security camera. A tripwire connected to nothing would slow an enemy more than a B1 because at least it could fucking trip someone, but a bell on it and it communicates with you better.

>>62714337
Filoni is Kennedy's henchman, we have him to blame for half of why Star Wars is now woke and trash

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>>62715273
Couldn't they drop a bunch of them behind enemy lines, give your guys IR identifier patches they are programmed not to shoot at, and just set them loose?

>>62716859
Spot can't reload and has a battery life measured in hours. After a day, your battalion of automatic war criminals would shut down.

>>62716914
>compared to B1s
Better to win for an hour than lose all day.

>>62717078
With later models it's a programming issue, not a hardware issue.

>>62714469
dude I remember begging my mum to let me stay up when I was 6 to watch it, since we were in Australia it was releasing at like 3am on a sunday night and I had school the next day. She caved and let me stay home the next day and I got to watch the whole thing. It was great. Dad even stayed up with me to watch it and he even ended up liking it too.

>>62717231
>Phantom menace
>march shoulder to shoulder getting assfucked by literal 60 IQ cavemen with catapults
>miss a significant number of your shots at 30 feet
>have a reaction time measured in several seconds, be easily confused, zero tactical acumen
>later movies
>march shoulder to shoulder getting assfucked by retards that would lose to napoleon
>miss a significant number of your shots at 30 feet
>Be easily confused AND feel fear
>filoniverse
>All of the above disadvantages but can literally run out of power walking in a straight line for a few hours, cant speak in complete sentences, constantly knock each other over and other HILAAAARIOUS bullshit, be killed by a coconut thrown at your head

>>62717356
Phantom Menace era is the old shitbots that are mostly controlled by a specialized Lucrehulk in orbit. Of course those are shit. Late model B-1s are fully autonomous, the problem there is Palpatine was playing both sides. Knowing full well they'd steamroll the Republic by sheer numbers alone he actively gimped them. Also tested some of the contingency orders (66 was one of these) with them from time to time. The CIS could easily crank out hundreds of thousands of droids for each new clone trooper. B-1s are insanely cheap and additional mass production is easy to set up.
The endless hordes of droids being shit makes a lot more sense when you realize the entire purpose of the war was to pervert the Jedi order, make them suffer and die, spread darkness throughout the galaxy, then eventually take over and kill the rest of the Jedi regardless.

As far as shit tactics, no shit. It's a movie series/kids show and they clearly didn't hire any advisors. Also a lot of proper tactics kind of go out the window when you're got hundreds of thousands versus hundreds of thousands in the same giant fields like on Geonosis. Could that entire battle have been handled differently? Probably. However, rule of cool my dude.

Seeing as how B-1s are droids, not people, reprogramming them to not suck anymore is entirely possible. Again, the hardware isn't the problem once they're fully autonomous. Change out LOLOLCOMICRELIFLOLOLOL!!!1!!faggot!!!.tiff for you'refuckindeadkiddo.exe and they'd be fine. Personally I'd keep the dumbass personalities but with MUCH more effective programming for pretty much all other aspects. Imagine getting wrecked by that. Imagine fading out as you hear two of them having an absolutely full retard conversation after a squad slaughters all your friends While they wouldn't be as effective as BXs could be they could still be absolutely horrific with the right programming.

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>>62717356
>later movies
>march shoulder to shoulder getting assfucked by retards that would lose to napoleon
In the 3rd movie they are seen conducting combined arms assaults. They definitely improve over the course of the prequel trilogy, even if they remain poor. Give em a few more years under Grievous and they probably would have sorted things out.

Is this a good command structure for an interstellar military?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt4CQT3f2IU

>>62722373
no, but it feels very plausible that the GARs command structure would be a byzantine nightmare. It's good from a storytelling perspective since it explains away a lot of the "why didn't they just not act like retards?" questions that people pose when watching them in action. I've come to really admire George Lucas for creating a setting where incredibly cool but fundamentally stupid things can plausibly happen, like the Death Star or the clone wars, and managing to keep it consistently like that even with the EU stuff. Darth Bane is still fucking dumb though, Kevin J. Anderson can suck a beetle covered dick.

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>>62717411
>Seeing as how B-1s are droids, not people, reprogramming them to not suck anymore is entirely possible.
I think that might not be true. One thing I've long suspected about tech in Star Wars and droids in particular is that nobody has a deep understanding of how they work anymore. Droids have been around in Star Wars canon for millenia, picrel is a droid soldier of an empire that was around 25,000 years before the events of the prequels. Given that a lot of the code we use IRL right now relies on code from the 90s that nobody currently knows how exactly it works and was often supposed to be a quick temporary fix, I imagine that after 25,000 years of the alien equivalent of Indian Javascript devs shitting on the code base that a lot of things can't be fixed because everything else in the code stack for your droid brain relies on some very stupid fucking bugs being in place. Technical debt is a thing.
>the hardware isn't the problem once they're fully autonomous.
I suspect that B1 droids are made to pretty low standards of precision, and software can't do much to improve their low mechanical accuracy. Pile that onto the problems I mentioned where they are based on a code stack that probably relies on libraries that might be 25 millenia old and you can see why "just make them better" might not be an option.

>>62722731
If that were the case actually capable droids like the BX commando or Magnaguard would be just as shitty even with their much higher build qualities. Commando droids are arguably superior to the clones and Magnaguards take on Jedi. Droidekas are also known to be reprogrammed by buyers because the Colicoids had a habit of programming them to be as ruthless, irritable, and dangerous as they were giving them a reputation for turning on their owners. Now if you found an ancient droid on some forgotten world then you'd have an issue. I'm sure there is some old behemoth code in the galaxy but I sincerely doubt it's in the droids. Just like with us it's probably a big part of finance though.

The build quality of the B-1 depends on the factory they came from. The design isn't the best for a proper battle droid because the B-1 started out as a security droid. Then the Trade Federation decided the droid equivalent of a mall cop would be the perfect basis for an absolutely gargantuan military they technically weren't even supposed to have and figured a central brain could coordinate that force to actually be capable. The B-1 is basically the Trade Federation ordering "carbines" because they're not allowed to have "rifles". Same with the Lucrehulks being obvious battleships made out of cargo vessels but with very specific gun counts to just barely skirt the law.

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>>62723043
>If that were the case actually capable droids like the BX commando or Magnaguard would be just as shitty even with their much higher build qualities.
not necessarily. In the scenario I described developing droids would be an arcane process, and you'd end up with shit like not being able to integrate your B1s processor with a magnaguard's tactical card because the tactical card only works with processors that overheat at an extremely specific temperature, and nobody knows why. You can't just make the B1 use processors that overheat at that temperature because if it does, the droid will catch fire at random, and again, nobody is quite sure why. Also you can't just upgrade the B1 to have the tactical skills of a commando droid because even though that droid uses the same processor, the tactical skills package is only compatible with an older version of the targeting software, which only works on drivers that require a targeting unit that costs like 200x as much.

>>62720502
>In the 3rd movie they are seen conducting combined arms assaults
And still getting shit canned at rock throwing range by troops that would be crushed by musketeers.

>>62723141
Anon, you're trying way to hard.

The transition from mothership control to full autonomy would be a real son of a bitch if it was ye olde code onion or the droid's brain was already maxed and for some reason couldn't be swapped for a newer model. Again, it's a droid. You can upgrade and reprogram them just fine or control ships never would have stopped being a thing.

>>62723245
I am well aware of that, but even if they never get to the point where they are good, they still improve dramatically over the course of the movies.
>>62723254
>Anon, you're trying way to hard.
I'm having fun and I've had a few beers.
>The transition from mothership control to full autonomy would be a real son of a bitch if it was ye olde code onion
maybe not, maybe the mothership control was a kludge that basically emulated the outputs of the hardware they ended up getting installed once they were made autonomous. Maybe the hardware run by the mothership used protocols that were designed with the possibility of being upgraded for autonomy in mind, but was incompatible with the architecture that most other battle droids used.

>>62714469
That's because Star Wars is for children.

>>62714495
I'm pretty sure regular dogs out perform them

>>62700889
bumo

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>>62707193
>the galactic republic didn't have an army, and neither did pretty much any of its constituent polities
I think that actually most or atleast a lot of the member states did have their own self defence forces. Even a hughly pacifist world like Naboo had a palace guard and starfighters, as you mentioned yourself.

Both the clone army and the droid army are basically the centralized expeditionary forces of either side in the galactic civil war. These forces are used to invade enemy planets (like Geonosis, where the clones fought plenty of biological bug soldiers), bolster beleagured local defense forces (like on Kashyyk), liberate your own fallen planets (like Utapau where Obiwan tells the locals to mobilize their resistance to help the clone landing), do pitch battles against the enemy's expeditions (like the battle for coruscant) and so on.

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>>62701444
>>62701664
SW sperg here, think it's worth mentioning the Clone Wars were the first major galactic conflict fought in about a thousand years. Pretty much NOBODY had any fucking clue what they were doing. The Republic lucked out by having an army of genetically engineered super-soldiers dropped into their lap, and even then the bulk of their military was disparate local defense forces hastily reorganized under a single command structure. Meanwhile the CIS military was a hodgepodge of private militias built for antipiracy, debt collection, coercing/suppressing exploited planets, etc. So the majority of the Clone Wars wasn't even professional military units fighting each other, it was Space National Guard units vs. Robo-Pinkertons.

>>62700889
I'm pretty sure Padme kills more people in episodes 1 and 2 than these droids kill in all pre and post disney star wars media combined. in fact i cant think of a single one. they are literally designed to be destroyed

>>62728961
>in fact i cant think of a single one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it4PEFS7taM
never forget

>>62728961
in star wars battlefront they rack up quite the bodycount.

>>62728920
>it was Space National Guard units vs. Robo-Pinkertons.
Kino

>>62728920
This is the kind of "explanation" people out of their depth think adequately explains away the scale becasue it explains the abstract divorced from the scale.


Does this and other explanations rationalize SOME incompetence? sure. Does it magic away THIS LEVEL of incompetence? Not within a thousand parsecs.

>>62730933
>Hello, Cardinal Watson?
>Yes, who's this?
>It's Bishop Smithers, from Maine? Well I went to the training facility as you guys requested and I found there's like 500 000 people here preparing for war.
>What?
>Yeah there's some PMC lady who says that our church paid for all of this up front, tanks and jets and God knows what. They're all going to be done training this Summer and want to know where they're getting deployed.
>I see, did you find the assass-
>I mean we're talking quite literally billions of dollars here. There's this huge camp, I mean it wraps around the horizon. They've got attack helicopters, and pretty sure I saw a few ICBMsb being moved about.
>As that may be the political assassin we sent you-
>I'm only belabouring this point because for last Christmas I requested a new lectern? And the Economy Department said that the Church can't afford to buy a new lectern for every parish just because it's Christmas, which I thought was pretty petty.
>...
>Did you guys authorise the spending of 600 billion dollars?
>No.
>Well alright, so maybe she got her information wrong. Because apparently they're using United Nations stencils on their uniforms. Probably for the best, I don't know anything about commanding. Can you imagine that? General Smithers? Ha!
>The assassin, Bishop?
>Oh yeah I'm waiting for him in the parking lot, going to cut him up a treat when h- Wait, there he is! Call you back later!
I don't know who it is that wraps themselves into knows to defend the prequels, but I just can't imagine they're older than 16, my brain refuses to permit it.

>>62701937
Someone has full 3d models available on Etsy. Pretty sure they sell the files or a kit you put together like a model plane.

>>62700889

B1s are literally just glorified automated strike breakers being pushed into a direct combat role, of course they suck.

>>62701444

Honestly this. The Army of Northern Virginia could stomp the shit out of the CIS, GAR, and Imperial Stormtroopers because we Southerners actually know how to fucking maneuver and our officers come from West Point, the Citadel, and VMI, not some wizard cultist compound on Coruscant or Korriban.

>>62701664
>By the third prequel they have hired General Grievous

I wouldn’t say hired. “Hired” would imply that Grievous was a mercenary and didn’t wholeheartedly believe in the CIS cause, which he did.

>>62700909
>didn't include 40k
C'mon nigga, they're the worst offenders.

>>62732314
>I wouldn’t say hired. “Hired” would imply that Grievous was a mercenary and didn’t wholeheartedly believe in the CIS cause, which he did.
I guess better wording would have been "brought in". I was just trying to make it clear that he was not in charge of the CIS military establishment until later, when they realized they needed to shape up and found someone qualified to help them do it. I think he is the primary reason the CIS improved tactically far faster than the GAR did. Neither side ever seemed to figure out things like cover or fighting from ranges of more than like 20 feet, but the CIS amphibious landing on Kashyyk actually seemed pretty good compared to the tactics of the defenders. In contrast the clones on Utapau did shit like rappelling down within like 30 feet of the enemy from an elevated firing position into the open after having already alerted their enemy to their presence then predictably getting mowed down. Give Grievous another 5 years and he probably would have found a way to get the B1s to use cover and not try to close to point blank range before engaging.

>>62732825
Given Grievous open contempt for droids, maybe not.
Beside he didn't really believe in any CIS goal, be it the official "Muuuh independance from the corrupt republic" or the real "Muuuh reward once we get the galaxy". At that point he was a pyscho with a gear to grind and he just wanted to kill Jedi and burn down the republic, and didn't care for much else. Probably planned to orbital bomb the Huks into extinction somewhere down the line.

>>62710093
Anon, the product line of these three is literally called We, Robot. The director has already complained lol

https://youtu.be/_bfUtLUMVdw

>>62703351
Star Wars SHOULD remain a setting where the guns are worse than muskets becasue it's really really funny and makes autists mad.

Though I suppose if I was remaking star Wars I'd bring the clone wars era equipment all the way up to like WW1 standard, and keep the original trilogy basically as it was designed: WW2 in space.

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>>62732935
>Given Grievous open contempt for droids, maybe not.
I haven't watched the TV shows, but in the movie he doesn't seem to hate them, he just seems treat them like they are materiel, not personnel. He isn't training the B1s in bootcamps or something, so he doesn't need to interact with them to improve them, he just needs to keep getting the Techno Union geeks at Baktoid Combat Automata to make patches that improve the B1s. He already got them to import the "mechanized warfare" library and integrate the "riding desant on tanks as dismounts and spread out during combat" functions into their code, now he just needs to get them to replace the "loose order napoleonic line infantry" package with the "modern infantry tactics" package. People have been using battle droids in Star Wars for tens of thousands of years, so there is probably already something in Space Package Manager that could be integrated to give the B1 the ability to take cover and aim at least as well as an African militiaman or jihadi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW4OIHDsWsM

>>62734247
imagine the fuddlore about which firmware versions were the best

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>>62734264
>imagine the fuddlore about which firmware versions were the best
Imagine working with tech that has been around so long that the kernel has code that was written in the Neo Assyrian Empire, and then realize that the Neo Assyrian empire was only like 2600 years ago, and in Star Wars droid tech has been in continuous development by people on thousands or millions of different planets for more than ten times that long. Not only is literally everything everyone knows about it fuddlore, but that entire archeology departments would be dedicated to hunting down the technical docs for code that is in thousands of models of droids across the galaxy, but nobody remembers what it does anymore. Reverse engineering efforts are undertaken on large scales every once in a while, but they only ever discover more layers of things they don't understand, and even extremely long lived aliens who dedicate centuries to understanding it don't know how any of it works outside of their tiny field of expertise in some niche bit of low level code. It's all fuddlore, all the way down, and the people making new droids just cobble things together and pile more code on top.

>>62717411
>Knowing full well they'd steamroll the Republic by sheer numbers alone he actively gimped them.
[Citation needed]
>Change out LOLOLCOMICRELIFLOLOLOL!!!1!!faggot!!!.tiff for you'refuckindeadkiddo.exe and they'd be fine.
>RC droids are basically that
>never used again
I hate that faggot Filoni like you wouldn't believe

>>62707831
based and roger roger pilled

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>>62734247
>He isn't training the B1s in bootcamps or something

That kinda defeats the whole point of battle droids, which is that they have their "training" literally programmed into them at the factory, making them disposable.

>>62736183
>I hate that faggot Filoni like you wouldn't believe

The only people who actually like Fagloni are Disney shills and pederasts on /co/

>>62707958
So could a Gatling gun.

>>62707831
B1s are literally worse than a trained dog. You have to pay for their electricity, their mechanical upkeep, and their transportation. They constantly have problems both mechanically and in software and they cant even report effectively on what they're fucking looking at.

It often takes several seconds for them to even begin to react to an order, even after they've acknowledged it.

>>62731046
my brain jammed on
>It's Bishop Smithers

well done.

>>62736279
>The only people who actually like Fagloni are
children who have never picked up a single EU novel
my young cousin is one of them. introduced to Star Wars via Rebels

>>62736183
>[Citation needed]
NTA, but Palpatine led both sides of the war, so he convinced the CIS council to rebel sporadically rather than in a single united surge; at the same time he convinced the Senate to respond to each hotspot essentially in a GWOT [also because we were in GWOT when this shit was being written] style low-level insurgency; the purpose of this was to destroy the credibility and moral high ground of the Jedi as "peacekeepers", and kill off IINM about half of them

also bear in mind the size of the Star Wars galaxy and speed of travel; relative to one another, it is basically the size of the USA. if the CIS really wanted to, they wouldn't rebel in cities across the country; they'd concentrate somewhere and make an end-run for Washington D.C.
which is exactly what happens in ROTS
but that was the moment when Palpatine was launching his Final Solution

>>62731046
Is there official lore about how the clone army was payed for? It must have been super expensive, way too expensive to hide an up-front payment. But I doubt the Kaminoans would do such a massive project and just trust they get their money on delivery? And who payed Kuat Drive Yards etc. for making all those ships and war machines? The Kaminoans too out of their own pockets?

How does a secret planet that was erased from the maps get in contact with the galactic MIC to buy all those ships?

>>62736795
The sitting Supreme Chancellor and an extremely wealthy count, both trained in the use of the force, working together. In a lot of places they could literally just walk in and say "You will make/do this." and the poor sap would repeat the order and get to work not even realizing they'd been mind tricked

For the rest they have an absolutely massive budget. Equating it to the US you'd think a few hundred million dollars is a lot and would be easily noticed, but it's really not when the GDP you're working with is in the trillions and bills can include tens of billions in spending. The Galactic Republic's GDP is probably septillions of credits at bare minimum just due to being a large chunk of a galaxy with a budget to match. Squirreling away even trillions of credits in a pork barrel spending bill would be something you could easily do, just like the US gov does with it's special projects.

>>62707768
>makes stuff the fuck up
yeah ok please continue to drop the tesla stock price please

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>>62714200
they only need twenty minutes once turned on. You don't get it, do you? Bombs on legs. Bombs that sprint at the enemy on human legs. Anywhere a human can reach, it can, and then it will detonate.

>>62734247
In the lore previous doesn't have a direct contempt for droids per SE but rather a disgust because people confuse him for a robot because of how much of hisself has been rebuilt using robotics.

>>62714200
Lets be real here anon, you'll only need it to be on for 30 seconds tops. Really though, that's plenty of time for it to do some chores or load some mags. Also that's surely going to be improved over time. The first proper battle droids are likely going to have similar battery lives while being generally bigger and scarier. Also will likely be designed with hooking up to vehicles and generators in mind extending combat battery life.

>>62736795
it's mentioned briefly in AOTC; Palpatine was elected Supreme Chancellor at the end of TPM, and engaged the Kaminoans very shortly after

since he was Supreme Chancellor he could skim off the massive funds
(if the US can field the world's most capable military with 14% of the national budget, I suppose you can build a small but still pretty bitching army with one quarter of that, which might be hideable)

>How does a secret planet that was erased from the maps get in contact with the galactic MIC
they were erased at that time
from the Kaminoan point of view it was just part of the deal; the rest of the galaxy didn't know anything about it

>>62737371
>GDP
national budget is more relevant; GDP is basically every dollar spent in the economy by everybody
the US defence bill has been pretty consistently about 14-15% of the national budget in the GWOT era, which is the most comparable with the Republic at peace
the clone army is quite small actually

Reading this thread makes me want to write a book or comic about space warfare that actually makes sense

In the meantime, anyone know about some sort of similar media? Surely some autist has come up with a decent military scifi fantasy that's not ridiculous

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>>62739102
Check out Ian Douglas

>>62739147
is that the one where the opening scene is a bunch of pilots flying a relativistic strike mission?
I found the writing very boring

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>>62736795
>Is there official lore about how the clone army was payed for?
According to the wiki the money was fronted by Damask Holdings, which was a part of the Banking Clan run by Darth Plageuis. They contacted a Jedi master named Sifo-Dyas under the guise of being concerned about the future stability of the republic and convinced him to commission the clone army on the behalf of the republic, then Dooku offed him.
>It must have been super expensive, way too expensive to hide an up-front payment.
The clone army wasn't that big on a galactic scale. An army of a few hundred thousand or even a few million plus equipment would probably be well within the price range of private buyers.
>who payed Kuat Drive Yards etc. for making all those ships and war machines? The Kaminoans too out of their own pockets?
The wiki says the Kaminoans contracted a subsidiary of Kuat Drive Yards called Rothana Heavy Engineering that is like their skunkworks to clandestinely produce the materiel for the army. It was probably an existing business relationship since Kamino was in the business of selling clone armies.
>>62738694
I wonder what other clients the Kaminoans had. It'd be a good source of henchmen for EU stories but I don't think that was ever utilized. A Hutt crime lord with a regiment of cloned Twilek babe commandos or something.

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>>62739281
>I wonder what other clients the Kaminoans had
They got contracted to make genetically enhanced clones of a already extremophile species for a brush war in Wild Space, much to the dismay of everyone else that lived in that region.

>>62737457
In other words, more expensive than a regular delivery system and less reliable and effective in any way, with a smaller explosive charge-per-total-weight

>>62739281
>I wonder what other clients the Kaminoans had.
Do you think they also mass produce and train sex slaves? Sounds like a lucrative business strategy.

Also, it has been a while since I read some of the Dune books, but are the Kaminoans a ripp-off of the Tleilaxu?

>>62732532
Sorry, I probably missed others too.

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It always pissed me off how they changed the voiced of the droids. Ep. 1 voices sounded a bit intimidating and then they changed it to very cartoony high pitch

https://youtu.be/xB_WH0mtvTY?si=BlRcbvZ2K1PaCPKc

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>>62739726
>Do you think they also mass produce and train sex slaves? Sounds like a lucrative business strategy.
It might be, who knows. If you're mass producing them and training them from birth I don't see why you couldn't add dancing and fucking to the training course. It's probably still cheaper to get free range Twi'leks, but I bet a market would exist for clones.
>are the Kaminoans a ripp-off of the Tleilaxu?
I don't think so. They don't do as much genetic engineering, they just find a high quality template and tweak them a smidge before spinning up mass production.
>>62739726
Sounds hilarious. I really wish there were more EU stories that included Kaminoans having no sense of right and wrong. Just providing armies of whatever to whoever had the money to buy them.

>>62739726
i only buy non-gmo free range twi'lek sex slaves.

maybe very high end limited run stuff, seems like a pretty saturated market otherwise. maybe they'd do a lot of animal stuff, for zoos and conservation and whatever the star wars equivalent of rich saudis would be. hutts?

>>62701444
Napoleonic wars made sense given the technological limitations for the time period but Star Wars has laser weapons and faster than light travel yet they still choose to fight like it’s the year 1850.

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>>62739927
>whatever the star wars equivalent of rich saudis would be. hutts?
yeah, definitely Hutts. Star Wars always drew heavily from pulp stories, and Tatooine was a big bag of Arabia tropes. Jabba even dresses Leah up as a harem girl and smokes a hookah.
>maybe very high end limited run stuff, seems like a pretty saturated market otherwise.
The fact that they need to raise them from birth instead of just grabbing some fully grown ones is a pretty big cost, even if they grow at double speed. I don't know if limited runs would be economical, since Kamino's thing seems to be mass production. They probably would do something like producing a few thousand whores for some depraved planetary dictator's harem or to staff a whole chain of brothels. I've always assumed the clone troopers just grew at double speed but they don't age past adulthood faster, but the EU books I read seemed to claim otherwise, and short lifespans would definitely reduce their appeal. Kamino's niche would be consistently high quality, for instance a thousand clones of Darth Talon who are trained from birth to be totally loyal to you would probably be a lot more valuable than ten thousand free range Twi'leks.

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>>62739102
Get reading anon there is a lot to learn
https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/

>>62739726
>are the Kaminoans a ripp-off of the Tleilaxu?
I argue "well yes but no" in the sense that they share common tropes but trying to set up any planet / race in Star Wars would, by the nature of Star Wars, always default back to something resembling Dune

because Star Wars is essentially WW2 IN SPAAAACE, planets are treated like cities, and missions like the Telemark Raid or Maloy Raid or Bruneval Raid: Resistance spies have told us that city houses a lab with engineers making LE SUPER WEAPON, go raid it. This results in the famous one-biome-one-function-planet trope in Star Wars, which in turn results in Kamino.

>sex slaves
in very tiny batches, perhaps, but there's no real niche, because Kaminoan growth is only 2 years for 1; it will take 8 years to grow your custom human waifu

more importantly, slavery is outlawed in Republic space, and you have Twileks: canonically their women are a race of subservient 90210 bimbos already.
outside of Republic space, just buy a slave. I hear Shmi Skywalker sucks a mean cock.

>>62739281
IINM Sifo-Dyas was offed first then Dooku impersonated him
> It was probably an existing business relationship since Kamino was in the business of selling clone armies
IIRC it was a one-off JV Palpatine put together
Kamino used to make small clone batches, this was their largest ever project

>>62739901
>They don't do as much genetic engineering
they're good enough that they can adjust the ageing process and tweak obedience levels, which is kinda big

>>62742213
>they're good enough that they can adjust the ageing process and tweak obedience levels, which is kinda big
that's pretty big, but my fuzzy memories of dune have the Tleilaxu having the sort of power over genetics that a sculpter has over clay. I might be misremembering.
>IINM Sifo-Dyas was offed first then Dooku impersonated him
the Wiki says Sifo-Dyas commissioned the clone army then gets offed by Dooku.
https://bw.us.projectsegfau.lt/starwars/wiki/Sifo-Dyas/Legends#Jedi_Master
>IIRC it was a one-off JV Palpatine put together
the Wiki says that it was Kamino that reached out to Rothana Heavy Engineering.
https://bw.us.projectsegfau.lt/starwars/wiki/Rothana_Heavy_Engineering/Legends
>Kamino used to make small clone batches
the wiki says they had previously made slaves for a mining outfit, along with private armies, so they had probably done bulk orders before
https://bw.us.projectsegfau.lt/starwars/wiki/Kaminoan/Legends#History
>slavery is outlawed in Republic space
if you clone a Twi'lek and she is raised to be subservient to you to the point that you don't need to enslave her, that probably bypasses the legal issues. The Kamino cloners seem to be pretty damn good at indoctrinating their products, although their combat training seems to be a bit lacking given how fucking stupid the clones in the movies are.

>>62742242
>the Tleilaxu having the sort of power over genetics that a sculpter has over clay
they created artificial hermaphroditic humanoid shapeshifters (Face Dancers) which is impossible in Star Wars (only natural shapeshifters exist) so the Tleilaxu have the edge

>the Wiki says Sifo-Dyas commissioned the clone army then gets offed by Dooku.
ah okay
I didn't read the Darth Plagueis novel, and much of the initial Kamino setup is in that novel I think

>that probably bypasses the legal issues
there has to be some reason why clones aren't in widespread use

>given how fucking stupid the clones in the movies are
well, that's the limitation of depiction; they are each supposed to be miniature Jangos and the best soldiers in the galaxy, which is how they're able to fight at crazy odds and kill the Jedi
think of an army of Audie Murphys...

>>62742274
>well, that's the limitation of depiction
The final refuge of the cornered scifi fag.

No, they're shitty becasue they're shitty.

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>>62742440
We get it faggot, it's not remotely realistic so reee bad. Assuming Lucas had actually hired a pile of actual proper current and former military consultants to make it realistic the clones would basically be portrayed with Delta Force tier guys being the center of the bell curve that is the clone army. In universe they're supposed to be absolutely amazing troops. That's the point.

Part of why the Clone Commandos have such a big following is they actually did do that during the development of Republic Commando and made a point of showing off what they learned in the development videos.

>>62707622
>tesla
FULL
SELF
DRIVING

>>62742440
Okay so all characters in all movies are shitty, gotcha

>>62723254
He's right though. Shit like that happens all the time today with tech that's just 30 years old, let alone 25000.

>>62742593
Which is why I mentioned finance, which is an absolute clusterfuck of that shit.

One major difference is it's an entire galaxy meaning thousands upon thousands of individual cultures each with their own way of programming and development. Droid foundries that use such ancient base code that nobody understands it and it kneecaps the final product would not last in a scenario where there can be hundreds if not thousands of competing entities that don't do that. Even a single major producer that doesn't use ancient retard code would dominate the market outright due to a much better much more user friendly product.

A battle droid you can't upgrade without calling in the Adeptus Mechanicus and their most revered scholars (who still might not understand it) is fucking worthless.

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Droidekas are awesome, I just wanna say that

also these books were based af

>>62701034
I mean when you consider that they can cover every block and alley, they are literally amazing. Even with subpar right skills, they would collectively know everything at once.

>>62742628
haha robo go rolly-polly

>>62742613
>finance
Or some other finite resource

It is the very basic rule of scarcity all over again.

>>62742513
>My face on a Monday morning

>>62742213
>because Star Wars is essentially WW2 IN SPAAAACE
the original trilogy is a space opera spaghetti western multi-pastiche
it can't really be categorized because it intentionally uses as many tropes as possible from as many themes in media as it can
han solo is an archetypal spaghetti western outlaw smuggler with a native american sidekick who can't speak english and is only understood by Han (chewbacca)
luke is the ultra-important long lost bastard (kind of) son of the king
though it's anachronistic, Darth Vader is basically the Judge Holden base evil motive force of the plot
the entire ending Death Star sequence at the end of Ep 3 is your typical "Chase down the civil war train before it can escape and plant dynamite on the locomotive" scene, but in space
Endor is "we got captured by the native americans and despite the language barrier we convinced them of our plight and they help us by scalping the evil invaders"
the final duel between Vader and Luke is your classic climactic shakespearean rapier duel

trying to overlay anything real over star wars completely defeats the point of what Star Wars is
doing that is like taking The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly and saying it's a movie about the civil war and totally ignoring that the Blondie trilogy is essentially an extension of Kurosawa's samurai films, or taking Blade Runner and saying it's a movie about androids and ignoring that Ridley's adaptation is almost a 1:1 renovation of mid-century Noir pulp detective movies

The reason the new movies all fall flat on their face is because they are marvel movies instead of leveraging westerns and elizabethan theatre
It's the same reason why Blade Runner 2049 works so well; it is, for all intents and purposes, a noir detective story where K investigates and reunites the old burnt-out cop on the run with his daughter after fighting off the criminal human trafficking ring

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>>62743513
ANH is very obviously Guns Of The Navarone and Dam Busters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NMfBKrdErY
BTW, know why Darth Vader keeps twiddling his control panel when shooting at Luke? because that's how a WW2 British fighter sight worked.

ESB is hard to peg, because it's more of a fantasy quest film (for Luke) which establishes most of the original Jedi mythology; and because the rest of the gang spend most of the film on the run and that is a very atypical plot structure.

ROTJ goes back to the Guns Of The Navarone trope, even more explicitly: the plucky group of commandos must infiltrate this enemy stronghold and destroy Facility X in order for the Invasion Fleet to succeed at its huge war-winning operation
>Han Solo
Humphrey Bogart, the neutral who eventually comes round
>Endor
>native americans
true; but that was because Lucas didn't have the budget for Wookies = French Maquis

>trying to overlay anything real over star wars completely defeats the point
no, that's not what I'm doing; I'm just showing where Star Wars gets its key tropes and overall tone from, which is important to understanding why it works, because complementary tropes within a unified theme work better

>The reason the new movies all fall flat on their face is because they are marvel movies instead of leveraging
amongst other reasons, yes
but not
>westerns and elizabethan
rather, WW2 movies
which is why Rogue One works; the director went back to those roots, recruited English actors, showed both Imperial and Rebel actors those postwar WW2 movies, and got the makeup people to give them WW2 cuts
in addition, he didn't say this but I expect the various space battles were choreographed the same way

>Blade Runner 2049 works so well; it is, for all intents and purposes, a noir detective story
yes
because the original Blade Runner was a noir detective story
it would not have worked so well if K had gone the "android revolution" option and the film ended with eg. a Patriot-style uprising

>>62742274
>there has to be some reason why clones aren't in widespread use
they're more expensive than droids, less durable than droids, they need to sleep, they need to eat, they need to shit, they're worse at math, they are less precise, the list goes on. For pretty much anything you'd want a clone for, a droid would be better, and for anything you'd want an employee for, hiring someone wouldn't take 10 years to grow them and would cost a fraction of the price. Clones are only made on a few planets, and Kamino makes the primo ones, while places like Arkania are bigger on cyborg monstrosities.
>they are each supposed to be miniature Jangos and the best soldiers in the galaxy
Jango is a retard too, so them being almost as good as Jango Fett means they are just the biggest kid in the special ed class. Nearly everyone in the Star Wars galaxy is a retard, and the Mandalorians are overhyped morons with a warrior culture but no real military successes in the last few millenia. They were Sparta levels of overhyped and buying into the hype got the Republic a Sparta tier army.
>>62742628
I used to check those books out at the library as a kid, I loved em.

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>>62742613
>Droid foundries that use such ancient base code that nobody understands it and it kneecaps the final product would not last
Just because the base code is ancient and nobody understands it doesn't mean you can't do meaningful programming with it, there will just be limitations you have to work within. There are millions of Javascript devs out there, and most of them don't even understand Javascript. They just import libraries of code that have everything they need already done. Not knowing how anything works won't prevent you from making working products, and taking the time to get a deep understanding means you'll probably never get any useful work done.
>Even a single major producer that doesn't use ancient retard code would dominate the market
no, they'd spend centuries developing a product that reaches the lofty heights of almost working as well as droids from 25,000 years ago. Droids from 25,000 years ago in Star Years were retarded shit that is only a little smarter than the robots we can make today. Picrel was a huge step up at the time because it used ancient Rakatan technology. It was still stupid compared to a B1.
>>62743658
>>62743513
Star Wars draws heavily from pulp comics and stories. The WW2 influence is largely from pulp comics about WW2, the western tropes are the same, and so are the Arabian tropes of Tatooine and the Native American Ewoks. Darth Vader is an evil magic knight in the service of the Emperor, who is an evil wizard who kidnaps the hero to gloat about how great being evil is. The higher art influences of things like Guns of the Navarone are probably culturally upstream from the stuff George Lucas was actually inspired by. Star Wars is the ultimate pulp sci-fi setting because it is completely shameless about using tropes straight. It's our cultural comfort food, don't try to make it smart or lofty, it's not and that's not the point.

>>62743974
>The WW2 influence is largely from pulp comics about WW2
War Picture Library and Commando are way way way stupider than Star Wars even
>The higher art influences of things like Guns of the Navarone are probably culturally upstream from the stuff George Lucas was actually inspired by
George was a film nut and a budding weeb, it's a mistake to think him uncultured in this area.
Seriously, ANH is a classic Brit WW2 film in all but tech. It's ESB that goes off the rails and really builds the universe's identity, which is why it is often held up as the greatest Star Wars movie.

Tarkin and Vader behave like movie Nazis. Tarkin in particular is the classic "tell me where the Maquis are or I will massacre your village" Gestapo.

>>62744111
>it's a mistake to think him uncultured in this area.
It would be a mistake to think that, I think he deliberately used pulp stylings because they were a more distilled form of story. The reason Star Wars is so amazing is that everything in it is very rooted in very old tropes, so it grips onto the storytelling part of our brain like a vice. It's ingenious and unique in how amazingly conventional it is. It's so conventional that pretty much nothing is just conventional in one way, and simultaneously it's pretty much never subverting the tropes it uses. Tarkin and Vader are perfect examples, Vader looks like an allied propaganda poster about Nazis, with his stahlhelm and gas mask, but he's also an evil wizard. Tarkin is like a Gestapo officer, but also like an evil aristocrat from a pulp story from a medieval setting. I know that a lot of Gestapo officers are portrayed a bit like that, but I think that's due to similar influences.
>It's ESB that goes off the rails and really builds the universe's identity
Each film builds a different identity for the series, while building on the previous entries, it's quite elegant. George Lucas obviously changed his mind a lot as he went along but barely ever contradicted stuff in his previous movies. In the first movie movie the Empire has a lot more medieval trappings, with the Death Star being a castle where the evil Lord Vader takes the beautiful princess prisoner and keeps her in his dungeon. The stormtroopers were originally supposed to use lightsabers too, but Lucas wisely changed that. Jabba the Hutt is a villainous Arab sultan with a scheming visier. Star Wars never really forged its own identity, it assembled its identity out of parts it got off the shelf, but it did so masterfully and should be admired for its craftsmanship.

>>62701664
>but he did a good job explaining why this time
No, he did not. There is no explanation for why a bipedal robot capable of dexterous movements, weapon usage and a highly advanced AI would not be as scary as the fucking terminator. All of the technology exists in the SW universe for droids to basically never miss a shot and be extremely combat effective, yet they are clumsy, miss nearly every shot, and fail to accomplish anything. It’s the same way storm troopers are explained to be incredibly lethal and accurate, and off screen they kick ass, but the second they’re on the screen with a main character they shit their pants and die. If you want to show the audience that your main characters are badass, then you show them being badass, you don’t, and shouldn’t make their opponents incompetent ninnies.

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>>62744293
>There is no explanation for why a bipedal robot capable of dexterous movements, weapon usage and a highly advanced AI would not be as scary as the fucking terminator.
yes there is, we get to see how poorly managed and bureaucratic everything is in the Phantom Menace.
>All of the technology exists in the SW universe for droids to basically never miss a shot and be extremely combat effective
all the technology exists IRL for every household to have a helicopter or plane and for nearly every household task to be automated. At a huge number of jobs people work 8 hours a day but really do about 4 hours worth of work, and a huge portion of jobs could be automated entirely or have so much automated help that most of the workforce would become redundant. Having the technology to do something doesn't mean that it gets done, and I've gone on at length in this thread about how the fact that droid technology has been around for more than 25,000 years in Star Wars means that it's pretty much guaranteed that nobody knows how droids work on a fundamental level, so just installing a patch that lets B1s aimbot the meatbags is pretty much out of the question. The B1 was a robot mallcop that the Trade Federation used to break up strikes, there are much better droids on the market, the B2 springs to mind, but the B1 is cheap and with a few minor upgrades was able to fill out the ranks quite nicely. B1s did things like riding on tanks or manning checkpoints or providing a marine compliment on ships, they were hardly the heavy hitters of the CIS.
>storm troopers are explained to be incredibly lethal and accurate
they are the cream of a crop of absolute retards. They are incredibly lethal and accurate by the standards of a setting where there has been one major war in the last 5,000 years or so, and that was pretty much just an insurgency that lasted about 5 years a bit before most of them were probably born. Given that background they are honestly surprisingly competent.

>>62744293
>There is no explanation for why a bipedal robot capable of dexterous movements, weapon usage
Who are you to say how dexterous SW robots are and how accurate SW computers are?

>>62744440
>exists IRL
it's a mistake to assume that SW tech parallels our tech, which is the inherent mistake anon is making here

>>62744478
>it's a mistake to assume that SW tech parallels our tech
Calculating a firing solution that is so precise you could hit a target on another planet would only take a fraction of a second for computers from the 90s, so even if their computers are structured vastly different from ours the underlying technology to make them accurate should be there. The real problems for robots IRL are identifying the targets or knowing what the hell the mission is. Star Wars droids have the latter capability but not the former, they are stupid and incompetent in a human way, not in a robot way. The people of the Star Wars setting developed the technology for making droids act like people so long ago that the low level stuff of just crunching numbers is on a lower layer they can't easily access. It'd be like a web page having the ability to write to your BIOS or kernel or something. It seems possible to make droids incredibly precise, but that is probably pretty hard to do and might require some sort of kludge like wiring a secondary and probably more primitive processor into them to just handle certain operations. C3PO for instance can calculate numbers as well as a computer should, but he's not smart enough to calculate the odds that a Corellian would want to know the odds he just calculated before trying to tell him the odds. B1s probably aren't given precision servos, so giving them a fire control unit that could aim well would barely increase their accuracy and would probably cost a lot more.

>>62731046
I would like to remind you last year we got grocery store owner trying to coup nuclear power. You need to think third world levels of corruption here because this is what republic had in its last years.

>>62744655
>grocery store owner
hotdog stand guy

>>62744478
>Who are you to say how dexterous SW robots are and how accurate SW computers are?
Because I watched the fucking movies and see how they manipulate their equipment and weapons. They are dexterous. And targeting computers are simple technology compared to fucking intergalactic travel and combat androids. That’s tech that we’ve had for decades and we haven’t even figured out how to get to our closest neighboring planet yet. Don’t excuse lazy writing.

>>62744738
I don't know how to tell you this, anon, but Star Wars is a Flash Gordon movie. It's not supposed to be very realistic. In fact George is on the record saying he deliberately wanted to get away from hard science fiction like 2001 and back to more gonzo adventure.

Droids are sub par in combat applications because they're bad at lateral thinking. They always have been. That's just how most of them are because the setting is human centric and not even trying to be very deep. You get specialist stuff like droidekas and magna guards that exist to be scary and mean and Warfed by the Jedi but fact is that the vast majority of droid brains lose out to a highly skilled meatbag when they're doing anything but calculating arithmetic.

>>62744738
>see how they manipulate their equipment and weapons
humans can manipulate weapons but can't aim for shit compared to machines. That isn't just targeting software either, we just don't have particularly fine motor control and need to brace against something stable in order to have our aim come anywhere close to approaching the limits of our targeting software.
>Don’t excuse lazy writing.
It's not lazy writing, it's just not speculative fiction. Star Wars is a movie series that starts with an evil dark lord kidnapping a princess and a wise old knight taking a boy under his wing to aid his quest to rescue her from the dungeons of his fortress with the aid of her foppish manservant and her stable boy. The point clearly isn't to speculate about possible future technologies and write stories about how they'd impact our lives, instead any explanations of technology are done to help the watcher or reader suspend their disbelief better.

>>62744621
>so giving them a fire control unit that could aim well would barely increase their accuracy and would probably cost a lot more.
Isn't that the point of the central control computer, to offload all computationally-intensive tasks to a remote server so the B1 doesn't have to over burden its processor trying to multi-task? In an ideal situation a Battle Droid is like a tiny vehicle, with the droid brain being the driver and the CCC delegated to all finer duties in their operation like aiming and firing.

>>62744758
>I don't know how to tell you this, anon, but Star Wars is a Flash Gordon movie. It's not supposed to be very realistic. In fact George is on the record saying he deliberately wanted to get away from hard science fiction like 2001 and back to more gonzo adventure.
That is a perfectly valid and sufficient explanation, but not one that can co-exist with trying to bend and stretch the given material into a form that can make sense in-world.

>>62744885
>Isn't that the point of the central control computer, to offload all computationally-intensive tasks to a remote server so the B1 doesn't have to over burden its processor trying to multi-task?
read the post you are replying to. Aiming isn't computationally intensive at all, they are shown to do massively more computationally complex things as a matter of course. As I said, the issue is that the B1's servos probably have rather low mechanical precision, so unless you were to start making the B1s with much better and more expensive parts you aren't going to get much better accuracy out of them just because they compute a better firing solution. My point about them probably needing dedicated separate hardware to even calculate a better firing solution was just to drive home the point that upgrading them wouldn't be worth the money. The B2 is what you get when you make a battle droid that isn't a cheap piece of shit, but it's a fuckload more expensive.
>>62745066
>not one that can co-exist with trying to bend and stretch the given material into a form that can make sense in-world.
yes it can, just like apologetics still exist even though people also do serious analysis on ancient biblical texts. I'm not even religious, but I recognize that apologetics can have some very interesting and intelligent reasoning.

Yes once a month usually

what purpose do Jet Troopers serve? Is just part of their Mandalorian lineage that some dudes just want to fly?

>>62745322
I always thought they were some sort of evolution of the concept of airborne/air assault forces. Instead of a parachute they have a jetpack and can use it for tactical mobility in addition to just hopping out of transports with it. Also they might be able to use it to re enter low flying transports without the transport having to stop and land, which could be useful.

>>62743974
Of course not, however it is almost certainly inherently limited going to be compared to more advanced programming because if nobody understands it it's a safe bet nobody understands how to expand it either. If in 25k years we're still heavily reliant on things like Javascript and COBOL outside of specific uses like the finance/banking something is very wrong. Even finance/banking relying on such archaic code would undoubtedly still be an issue. Imagine us being reliant on Akkadian to control your entire financial system today. If it works it works but got forbid something breaks and we can't even begin to hope to fix it.

You're assuming the Rakatan Infinite Empire was the peak of code development and everyone else is just leaching off it thousands of years later. You're also assuming no other species could be really good at developing and dealing with code, or at least better than we are. I would expect races like the Verpine to absolutely shit all over us in that regard and not be beholden to old ass Rakatan base code. There's plenty more races out there that would handle development of their own codes plenty well too.

You can always take the time to get a deep understanding when you've got millions of workers of various species and droids. The thing is even if you do that it's a safe bet that ancient code is going to limit your products and make them harder for the buyer to use and service making them less appetizing than something newer and better that doesn't need some absolutely ancient base code. You also don't want to end up using some ancient code from a company that may actually still exist meaning you may have to pay licensing/royalty fees even if the company hasn't used that code themselves in thousands of years. For example Czerka Corp from Kotor was still around after the fall of the Galactic Empire.

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Imagine being a land fighting cuck

>>62742513
>In universe they're supposed to be absolutely amazing troops. That's the point.
Which means THEIR UNIVERSE is populated by clumsy retards who are bad at fighting.

>>62742592
>A mistake being common means it's not a mistake
LOL

>>62744293
>There is no explanation
For the hundredth time Palpatine put his finger on the scales of war and basically sabotaged them. There are plenty of droids NOT participating int he war that will absolutely wreck your shit, those droids also have a habit of costing a lot more than B-1s and aren't actively being covertly sabotaged. B-2s were also clearly a target of that sabotage. BX Commandos, droidekas, and Magnaguards however were not simply due to not being common enough to sway the war. They surely would have been sabotaged had they been present in any real numbers.

The correct question to ask is why in the fuck did the CIS's droid engineers not quickly catch and patch it? Why were they not engaged in an absolutely raging cyber war as Palpatine continued to try to ensure it wouldn't end too fast by gimping their primary forces? Outside of Dooku and a very select few trusted commanders nobody there knew Palpatine was playing both sides.

You put any of us in their situation and we'd be losing our shit over the fact that we're being obviously hit with major cyber attacks making our droids into retards.

So, the clone soldiers were trained by mercenaries and bounty hunters that the Kaminoans contracted, right? With a lot of Mandalorians among them, hence that mandalorian influence. But those are actually the wrong type of trainers: Those guys operate as individuals or in small groups to perform special missions. They can train SOF, and perhaps larger units of specialized light infantry (recon, paratroopers etc.) But these trainers can't teach the clones how to do large scale, combined arms maneuver warfare. How to organize and use large units. How to have infantry and tanks and artillery and fighter-bombers, etc. act in concert. This might explain why the clone soldiers act so retarded on the battlefield, though I doubt the bounty hunters taught them to march parade style into machine guns.

I was wondering if the unsuitable trainers were done on purpose by Lukas/whoever to show how dysfunctional this all is. But this was was probably unintentional. Most people believe that beeing a good soldier is about beeing a badass individual. So hiring some badass mercs to Dedovshchina the clones into badasses sounds logical to them.

On a related note with regards to the kaminoan cloning: We know they can speed up aging to get the child soldiers ready faster. But can they also do the opposite: Slow down or even stop aging to create eternal lolis for sale? There might be a lot of money in that.

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>>62745420
>If in 25k years we're still heavily reliant on things like Javascript and COBOL outside of specific uses like the finance/banking something is very wrong.
Things have already gone terribly wrong like that IRL, and at this point nobody is willing to take the time to fix it. Javascript is built upon by frameworks like React, and those will eventually be built upon by even higher level architecture. We are building our own tower of Babel. Eventually people will probably think of Javascript as low level code, and the layer they interact with will be a dozen levels past it. Huge parts of it will be written by chatbots. This is the future hell that web 2.0 has damned us to.
>Imagine us being reliant on Akkadian to control your entire financial system today.
I have, that is why I think that the Star Wars galaxy is the dysfunctional mess that it is.
>You're also assuming no other species could be really good at developing and dealing with code, or at least better than we are.
while black box obfuscation has been proven impossible, I suspect that reverse engineering thousands of years of bad code would be a task that might require comparable amounts of time to what it took to write it. I don't have a proof for that or anything though.
>You can always take the time to get a deep understanding when you've got millions of workers of various species and droids.
Most people won't be doing that, while reverse engineering efforts would likely take place, they wouldn't rebuild everything from the ground up, they'd just try to fix a few things and keep building on the shitty foundation. That'd be like modern people realizing things are fucked and deciding the solution is to have everyone to start over again from machine code.
>You're assuming the Rakatan Infinite Empire was the peak of code development
No, I'm saying that people had tried to start over from scratch and do things properly in the past, and they got curb-stomped by people who just got results.

>>62745634
>done on purpose by Lukas/whoever to show how dysfunctional this all is.
the prequels were made during the GWOT, being anti-war was pretty popular.
>I doubt the bounty hunters taught them to march parade style into machine guns.
the Kaminoans would liquidate entire batches for being too independent. Even if they knew better they might still do stupid shit if the space wizard ordering them around told them to.
>these trainers can't teach the clones how to do large scale, combined arms maneuver warfare.
There probably wasn't anyone alive in the galaxy who had done that at the time the GAR was commissioned. They definitely could have done a lot better, but them doing as badly as they did was understandable. General Grievous was basically an African warlord and he was able to massively reform the CIS into a fighting machine that could match the republic. Imagine if general Butt Naked was literally the most competent person you could find to lead an army.

>>62731046
>>62736795
The Republic in its latter years was basically Russia tier corrupt, just spread out in space. Outside of Padme and Bail Organa very, very few members of The Senate gave a remote shit about anything outside of whatever would line their own pockets. Its why the Hutt clans could just openly do their thing and take over entire planets in the Outer Rim with the worst offense to them being a strongly worded letter. Far from the best explanation but thats basically what the entire Republic was by the time of the Clone Wars.
>now imagine the space equivalent of russia thats had practically no direct threats in thousands of years with evil space wizards with mind altering powers, some of whom who are also incredibly wealthy in their own right, running around as part of a multi generational conspiracy to completely overthrow the galactic order at every level while also completely annihilating the more numerical and somewhat better but still kind of dickhead other space wizards
>its not tolkien but thats basically what happened

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>>62745794
>The Republic in its latter years was basically Russia tier corrupt, just spread out in space.
I don't think even Russia is so corrupt that a politician would bring his sex slaves to a senate meeting. Dude is probably never even seen without a pair of hoes, and they are rarely even ever the same hoes.

>>62746119
the right of the people to keep and bear twi'lek hoes shall not be infringed

>>62745322
Fly to the top of a building, shoot down at enemies. Easy evac.
Probably handy for space use too.

>>62746138
The right of the Twi'lek to keep and wear pants shall be infringed, in fact there is a substantial pants control lobby on Ryloth itself.

>>62745634
Both the "True Mandalorians" under Jaster Mereel and the "Death Watch" under clan Vizsla did do large force things though. They were proper armies, just not galactic scale. Jango was involved in many of them.

>>62745101
>suddenly mad about intelligence design

>>62746869
*intelligent design
I shouldn't be phoneposting.

>>62746869
are you implying that I am somehow angry about intelligent design? Or that you saying that you are angry about intelligent design having seen me defend the concept of apologetics? Either way ID is not an example of interesting and intelligent apologetics, so it's not really relevant.

>>62744738
>Because I watched the fucking movies and see how they manipulate their equipment and weapons. They are dexterous
the same movies that showed them not actually being that dexterous
>targeting computers are simple technology
according to IRL frames of reference, which is wrong

>>62713423
Mandalorians carry some slugthrowers. Mainly because if Jedi try’s to deflect it the get molten metal slag in their face

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>>62700909
>Muv Luv [...] autists are dysfunctional and keep repeating the same stupids 'arguments'
>people will defend Muv Luv
Bullshit.
The more you read the lore, the more you are a /k/ultist, the less you will agree with the Codex (or Integral Works, whatever)

Nobody tell >>62704035 about effective hit rates in real life firefights. It's funnier that way.

>>62715813
Incorrect. You're being retarded.

>>62747827
Ah the old noguns starwars faggot chestnut comparing shots fired at anything from inside a room distance to 500 paces, INCLUDING suppressive fire, to the fact that we have decades of on screen evidence of storm troopers missing standing targets at spitting distance.

>>62747803
I wish there was a Muv Luv anime, because my cat loves mecha shows for some reason, it's the only way I can get her to sit on my lap.

>>62736398
>so he convinced the CIS council to rebel sporadically rather than in a single united surge
We see the formation and execution of the council and little else between (outside Filoni slop, that is)
>>62745539
>For the hundredth time Palpatine put his finger on the scales of war and basically sabotaged them. There are plenty of droids NOT participating int he war that will absolutely wreck your shit, those droids also have a habit of costing a lot more than B-1s and aren't actively being covertly sabotaged.
Again, cite the source that states Palps directly and specifically stifled development and/or production of B1s. So far this entire argument hinges on a "Duh, it's obvious!".

>>62748128
>cite the source
Republic Commando: Odds states that the CIS are producing far fewer droids than claimed
Republic Commando: True Colors goes into the Republic's GWOT-style counter-insurgency strategy and directly states that it is Palpatine's policy
the Revenge Of The Sith novelisation states that Palpatine did it in order to spread the Jedi thin and whittle down their numbers

>>62701664
>the ones in the Phantom Menace were remote controlled from orbit
But they also talked to one another for some reason.

>>62714194
Well the armour obviously isn't designed to defend against fruit.

>>62748213
The remote control waa just enough to keep them running but not enough for complex tactical manoeuvres or even communications; they had regular holo receivers for that (shown in the invasion scene)

Now, while we all know that was a plot gimmick, it's also true that early prototypes data links are limited in capability. Today we are talking about cruise missiles (and drones) which can report back where they are precisely, show imagery, and which we can order to travel a specific convoluted route and then target a specific spot or even take control of the weapon ourselves. Half a century ago all we had was a weapon that we could order to go to ONE grid reference and then set to kill anything inside it, and it went haywire if its camera missed an important terrain feature or if the signal was interrupted, and it would just go on and on and on in a straight line until it hit something unintended, trees if you're lucky, an orphanage if you're really not
So it's reasonable

>>62700889
Given they lost to human beings with guns, they can't be all that great.
Sorry random unprecedented existential threat, looks like humanity wins again.

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>>62747894
>MLA : Total Eclipse (2013)
>Swazenmarken (2018)
>ML Alternative (2021)
your cat got "lucky", anon.
3 animes to choose.
I do NOT recommend for humans tho.
Total Eclipse and Swazenmarken (maybe i misspelled here) are spin-offs, that had a myriad of issues , from visual to pacing and plot.
Does not matter if you get 24 episodes. NONE of those completed their stories. (TE anime was aired before VN)
and the Muv-Luv Alternative anime? they crammed EVERYTHING from the 2 VNs.
Avoid this one, unless you only care the robottos and disregard the rest...
>What they were THINKING?

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>>62740269
>Jupiter is constantly flanked by massive clouds of space debris moving at the same speed

>>62749195
Jupiter is also a giant radioactive hazard that will fry you.

>>62707622
>if we can believe Musk

>>62742628
They're fantastic, just don't field them on Kashyyyk

>>62700889
bump

>>62700909
>muv luv
>bad
You a CHOMP.

>>62740269
I'm retarded, why is the asteroid belt triangle shaped and why no green part for the third red point?

>>62712169
>likely won't happen since the demand is not there for it yet.
Give it a vagina and the ability to perform basic household chores and it will sell like hotcakes.

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>>62752124

>>62740062
>Kamino's niche would be consistently high quality, for instance a thousand clones of Darth Talon who are trained from birth to be totally loyal to you would probably be a lot more valuable than ten thousand free range Twi'leks.
The EU doesn't have a good track record when it comes to trying to make force sensitive clones. It always blows up in your face somehow.

>>62740062
Force Clones are pretty much impossible to make. You’re better off just cloning a bunch of warriors and using them ala clone troopers

>>62707831
Sadly B1 battle droids cannot rape and loot, and we all know plundering local treasure and pussy is key to suppressing the population in question, lest they get any ideas.

>>62753243
Worked for the terminators

>>62707622
Well, first they have to not be Actually Indians. Then you need a robot that can endure combat stress and be able to operate in arduous environments while being able to justify its existence as a humanoid. Then, you know, make it reliable.

>If we can believe Musk
He's a showboater who has engineers that are doing impressive things. But he's a lot of smoke and mirrors until his engineers roll out something.

>>62753117
Short answer? Jupiter's gravity. The green clouds are on the L4 and L5 Lagrange points, and the red triangle is tracing a path through those two, L1 between Jupiter and Sun, and L3 on the far side of the Sun. Those are the only places near Jupiter's orbit, where you'll neither get thrown off nor fall into Jupiter.

>>62749195
IIRC the objects in the asteroid belt are far enough apart that you have a pretty high chance of just passing through the thing without issue. That's what my Magic Schoolbus edutainment game told me back in the early 2000s anyway.

>>62754120
>Magic Schoolbus edutainment game
Didn't know we had a certified baller in the thread.

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>>62753211
>The EU doesn't have a good track record when it comes to trying to make force sensitive clones. It always blows up in your face somehow.
she's still a hot babe with an amazing physique, fanatical loyalty to a moron who doesn't deserve it, and a talent for killing. So an army of her clones with the force engineered out, or maybe just down to more manageable levels would be very valuable compared to just some random Twi'lek hoes you slap collars on. I was using her as an example of a high quality Twi'lek, rather than because she is a force user, so if you can't make her clones not a bunch of unstable potato heads then just find a more stable template than her.
>>62753227
>Force Clones are pretty much impossible to make.
I know, read above.
>>62753243
>rape and loot
IIRC the term historically used was typically "rapine and looting" which a lot of people hear as "raping and looting". Rapine is actually pretty much a synonym for looting, and rape was generally considered a property crime for a lot of history anyway, so they wouldn't have really made a big deal of it.

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>>62745386
>be me
>friends modded the original Star Wars Battlefront so LAATs could carry 4x passengers (plus the gunner slots) and gave jet troopers blaster rifles instead of pistols
>We'd regularly do airborne LARP instant action where ones of us flies and the other four jump out of the gunship with jetpacks equipped and use them as improvised parachutes and capture CIS control points

>>62755965
>rape was generally considered a property crime for a lot of history anyway, so they wouldn't have really made a big deal of it.
assuming people in the past were barbarians is really easy but i really dont think it was any more likely than it is in current conflicts except in cases where they were razing a city to the ground. it happens when the opportunity presents itself but i doubt with any sort of repeated and organized effort, because you don't want to piss off the locals too much or they start fighting back when you show up instead of complying and paying taxes.

>>62756434
I miss having friends

>>62755965
>rape was generally considered a property crime

>>62756631
>>62756607
>>62755965
On the topic of war rape, the scholarly minded among you might be interested in the official /aco/ Spoils of War Reader:

https://www.file-upload.net/download-15308235/SpoilsofWarReader-Version1.4.7z.html

It is a collection of scholarly articles, historical texts and other material related to the topic of rape in war. It is intended as a companion to the war rape porn threads.

>>62700907
Lmao, ru the same guy who said that last battle droid threas?

>>62757422
anything interesting in it?

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>>62700889
>shitty droid
vs
>pinnacle of organic combatant (clone) mixed with cybernetic enhancements

>>62701753
Their blasters with the penchant fir OH’ing and exploding lmao

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>>62757621
Rape.

>>62758513
>>62701753
Blasters in Starwars are routinely stopped by sand, snow, wood, and boxes of fruit.

>>62756607
>i really dont think it was any more likely than it is in current conflicts
I don't think it was more common, I just think that our sources wouldn't have made as big a deal of it. Most ancient sources are rich aristocrats, and I think they would have just lumped their peasant troops raping other peasants in with the other property crimes that were common during a military campaign. I am hardly an expert on the topic of historical war rape though.
>>62756721
strictly speaking it is a property crime, as is assault. A person's body is their property, and damaging a person's property or denying them the freedom to use their property as they see fit is the harmful act of said crimes. Just because a lot of people don't view it like that doesn't mean it isn't an accurate description.

>>62758652
I've always assumed that blasters dump all their energy into the first solid thing they hit. They can defeat body armor because the energy being dumped all at once is enough to make a big crater in the body armor that extends into the body beneath, along with forcing the vaporized or exploded armor fragments into the body. The disadvantages in terms of penetration are more than balanced out by their logistical superiority because blasters all use the same gas no matter whether they are tank cannons or pocket pistols, and blaster rifles can fire hundreds of shots from a little blaster pack of gas that would hold about 5 rounds of 5.56.

>>62758790
I thought the big advantage was the superior ammo to weight ratio, where a DC-15 set on low can fire off 500 rounds for suppression at 600 RPM without surpassing 9 lbs 2 oz in total weight. That's big.

>>62758540

kek wtf

>>62758540
Source?

>>62758790
They're less accurate than muskets.

>>62763307
So... why would they even bother firing at targets as far away as they were on Geonosis? Why do blasters do fine on ships firing at SIGNIFICANTLY longer ranges? It's not that blasters are inaccurate, it's that they really should've hired people that could into warfare to consult on the films instead of doing rule of cool action movie stuff for everything and doing plenty of plot poorly enouhg that the Stormtrooper effect was necessary. They should have figured out how to make it a bit more realistic while still being visually pleasing. Also, turns out battles aren't very exciting if you never see the enemy because they're hiding, using lots of cover, concealment, or are far away. Turning everything into CQB where everyone has trouble hitting the broad side of a barn like in the CG series works for action because it's not just guys dumping plasma in a general direction where you might occasionally see a few pixels move and return fire. And as I'm sure you've read a million times, the story ends pretty damn quick if the elite soldiers operate operationally all over our dear heroes the same way they would nameless redshirts.

If it was explicitly realistic then based off Afghanistan and Iraq (the wars of the time period) the vast majority of shots would still miss largely being aimed in a general direction to achieve fire superiority, be taken from long distance anyways, and you'd almost never see the bad guys who would promptly be blasted to oblivion by CAS or other fire support. The only grand battles would be armor on armor. Space battles would've been boring settled by missile fire from across the system. Dogfights would pretty much never happen also being settled by missiles fired before you could even visually see the bad guys. This may shock you but a lot of actual real warfare would make an absolutely shit action film.

>>62764094
there really is a limit to how realistic you can make a Hollywood anything

even shit like Saving Private Ryan and Band Of Brothers

>>62764094
>Also, turns out battles aren't very exciting if you never see the enemy because they're hiding, using lots of cover, concealment, or are far away.
I mean, literally every WWII movie that needs to show these things solves the issue with good framework, and Star Wars loves its WWII allusions.

>>62700889
These guys are like $2,000 a peice. That's even cheaper than mobiks. Sure they're slow, stupid, have terrible aim, and break easily, but they're soldiers you can build in a factory, store in a warehouse for decades, and deploy whenever you want, who'll never need food or water and will never defect. If these things existed irl every country would have them.

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>>62764094
>If it was explicitly realistic then based off Afghanistan and Iraq (the wars of the time period)

The September 11th attacks took place when Attack of the Clones was already in the final stages of post-production, the fact that Geonosis resembles Afghanistan is unironically 100% coincidental. If anything, it was an homage to the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

>>62764094
>Space battles would've been boring settled by missile fire from across the system.
You could make it tense. Submarine combat is pretty anticlimactic too, but its still exciting in films. Fewer shots of ships, and more of sweaty men in cramped spaceship tunnels staring at monitors, barking orders, and occasionally just waiting to see if they're going to die or not.

>>62764590
>Submarine combat is pretty anticlimactic too, but its still exciting in films
submarine combat has NEVER been accurately portrayed in film

>>62764094
>So... why would they even bother firing at targets as far away as they were on Geonosis?
There were many occasions in history where muskets were fired at absurd ranges.

The maximum range a weapon will be fired at (especially by pre modern forces like those in Star wars) has nothing to do with accuracy and everything to do with how far the projectile will physically travel.

>>62764209
Yep. And if you make it too realistic it's going to suck anyways. The most exciting stuff is ALWAYS going to be close quarters like urban or the shit that happened in the Bocage where occasionally two forces popped out of the bushes at most a hundred or so yards from each other.

>>62764331
It's just not strictly realistic though. You have to take liberties with the filming and series of events nearly every time.

>>62764461
The point was that's how warfare of the time was and it makes an absolutely shit action movie. Great 3 sec to 10 min clips on Youtube but not a great movie.
RotS was '05, Star Wars: Clone Wars (Tartakovsky) was '03-'05, and Star Wars: The Clone Wars (The CG one) went from '08-'20.
Right up until the very most specialest operation what I laid out is explicitly realistic combat, and probably still is for US forces with a few tweaks relating to drone usage. Desert Storm was explicitly why I mentioned the "grand battles" being armor on armor and dogfights almost never happening (but a few did).

>>62764900
What it has to do with is will you even hit the target? With muskets even massed volleys is a waste of ammo and powder past a point. The main point here though is blasters are accurate, plot demands the people using them regularly not be able to competently use them or hit the broad side of a barn even if they'd otherwise be explicitly competent and accurate lorewise. There's plenty of examples of dead accurate long range shots with blasters, including small arms, in the franchise. Plot is always the issue.
Aside from that even with perfect weapon accuracy and near zero recoil YOU are not perfectly accurate. MOA/CEP is a thing whether it's the weapon or it's you. Using perfectly accurate blasters with almost no recoil in Blade & Sorcery you can see awful quick just how much each little movement you make can affect accuracy. Shooting targets hundreds of yards away while running is nearly impossible, good thing they get 500 shots a mag.

>>62731046
Anon, they're called Jedi KNIGHTS. They're not analogous to some local church. They're more like the Knights Templar or the Teutonic Knights. The Jedi are basically the only standing army legally allowed to exist in the Republic and exist as a branch of the state. And that clone army was ordered supposedly by the Supreme Chancellor himself with the Jedi just carrying out the order. The Republic's situation is so unique that its not really possible to draw an irl comparison.

Besides, historically cardinals have commanded massive armies. The Vatican had the biggest army on Earth multiple times in history.

>>62765607
>the only standing army legally allowed to exist in the Republic
Planetary/system militaries are a thing. The Republic itself didn't have a military though. The Trade Federation wasn't supposed to have a massive military but basically pulled the "We are not allowed rifles, so we'll buy carbines instead" trick building an army out of "security droids" and a navy out of heavy freighters they outfitted to just barely skirt armament limits "totes because pirates bro, trust me bro".

>>62739102
The 2004 Battlestar Galactica series is all that comes to mind. Its drama can get dumb at times and its very pretentious, but the military stuff is good. Everything else I can think of is just dry hard scifi which is really more speculative fiction than war story.

>>62765607
>They're not analogous to some local church
The very first time we hear about the Force in A New Hope some Imperial officer calls it a religion
That is also how it's portrayed in various EU novels

>>62765645
>Planetary/system militaries are a thing
Small ones
Like the Naboo security force and Gungan militias

>>62765698
They're still not analogous to local churches. They're warrior monks. They're trained in combat, carry swords, and are sworn to defend the Republic. They have an entire command structure and supply chain already in place.

>>62765698
Some, like Corellia and Kuat, had hefty militaries. It's just that most systems had glorified security forces that were in no position to fight an actual war because the galaxy had been so peaceful for so long. The worst most systems would face were barely organized pirates. The Trade Federation pulling it's shit on Naboo was the biggest thing to happen in a long time and was basically the TF going mask off. Even the fighting between the "True Mandalorians" and Death Watch wasn't nearly as big of a deal and they also stuck to Mandalorian space for the most part.

There were absolutely systems where the Trade Federation would have gotten their asses shot off.

>>62765771
IT'S A FUCKING JOKE, FOR FUCKS SAKE

>>62765698
>Gungan militias
unless you mean the Ultragungans, the Gungans seemed to be organized more like a tribal levy than a militia.
>>62764094
>it's that they really should've hired people that could into warfare to consult on the films
They ended up doing that for the Republic Commando game. They hired a special forces trainer or something and had their animators run around the offices with toy blaster rifles clearing rooms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynL8p_JIobE