it might have a higher chance of something wrong with it due to quality control and you might have to use their lifetime warranty, that's about it. My PSA 16" pencil barrel AR has been 100% great

>>62746014
>Clocked barrel extension
+
>shitty bolt
Yup I love it when the my fucking lugs that contain an a explosion have unnecessary wear and tear

also, bolts are cheap so you can buy a really good bolt carrier group like a Microbest Luxe model for barely more than a PSA bcg and keep the PSA one as a backup (the microbest won't break). Just buy a full bolt carrier group not just the bolt

>>62746014
As what the guy above me said the quality control may be awful on this one. Hell you should probably partially take it apart and put it together again just to make sure the thing was actually put together correctly. I love my faux dissi upper but I literally had to send it back and wait three months to get a new one back.

>>62746070
so its the assembly? isnt the only important part of an AR the barrel and bolt group?

so as long as i can fully tear down the gun i can fix any fuckups?

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Parts are good. Assembly usually isn't. And the warranty is disappointing.

What does go a long way is in Midwest Industries armorers wrench, a Magpul BEV vice block, and some blue loctite.

I love my PSA rifles.

>>62746014
It's a great rifle if you like working on guns and upgrading as you go. If you're a trust fund baby and have never worked a day in your life and have absolutely zero hands on knowledge or skills, then buy a Daniel Defense or a BCM.

This one's really similar and cheaper, but it's even cheaper than both to buy a complete upper and complete lower and put them both together in 5 seconds

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa-15-16-m4-phosphate-5-56-nato-1-7-13-5-hex-m-lok-rail-classic-ar-15-rifle-fde.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-pencil-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-13-5-lightweight-hex-m-lok-upper-without-bcg-and-ch.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-stealth-lower-magpul-moe-edition-black-no-magazine-5165500387.html

Be aware some of the uppers like the one i posted above don't come with a bcg and charging handle so you will have to buy ($94 Microbest) and charging handle ($10 mil spec)

>>62746128
its not that i dont like working on guns. I do.

I just want a gun that wont fail prematurely. I was under the impression that almost all AR's are standardized now except for the really high end ones

>muh qc
>muh assembly
literally what does this even mean? give specific real life examples.

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would this be miserable to shoot? i dont want flashbangs

>>62746014
>>62746190
>>62746223
>https://youtu.be/BaFOZAwspYI

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How much better are rifles like the M&P-15 and AR-556 compared to PSAshit?

>>62746249
I said give specific real life examples of your psa rifle being out of spec or put together wrong

>>62746258
The Sabre has better parts. The Smith is probably more likely to be put together correctly. I would get the sabre.

>>62746014
Rail is not very good, no chance it will hold zero. PSA gas ports are often gaped, so it will run dogshit ammo well but be extremely overgassed with normal ammo. non-CHF, non-chrome lined barrels, so will be less durable. Barrels are generally cranked down at 200x the max torque.

Whinging about the bolt is generally pointless as neither BCM nor PSA make bolts, and BCM doesn't disclose who they get them from. PSA gets theirs from either toolcraft or microbest, both are fine.
>>62746225
It will definitely be quite loud, concussive, and have noticeable flash when shooting.

>>62746128
What a dumb fucking post. Fucking retard.

>>62746293
https://youtu.be/mhSsaN4EJi4
https://youtu.be/Nupt3c-tQbw
https://youtu.be/gELTYmV14Tc
https://youtu.be/gPzVm5xgdLY
https://youtu.be/AvL_0qIO-h0
https://youtu.be/iJ2KhjAu3ME

>>62746399
ok now prove that the cost of rmaing the broken part or replacing it with a better part is more than the difference in cost between the psa rifle and whatever /arg/ told you to buy

>>62746429
>ok now prove that the
Sorry, my time is worth too much to waste it contacting PSA to fix the gun. If your time is worth nothing at all, that's great I'm glad for you.

>>62746014
the money you'd spend either immediately or eventually on fixing broken parts/bandaiding potential issues would equal just getting a BCM upper and a cheap PSA lower, so just do that from the get go. It's not much more and this will be a good exercise in growing your self control

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For what it is, it’s completely fine for me atleast. None of my parts were assembled wrong nor was there anything noticeably wrong or damaged. I’ve only put ~500 rounds through it so far, but it has yet to have any malfunctions. To be entirely fair my standard for what is acceptable is low given that I’m used to using absolutely beat to shit M4s at work. If this is your first rifle I say go for it, but if not then you know what you’re doing and should probably look for something else. I don’t feel qualified to speak on the technical terms of what’s wrong with it though.

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>>62746439
ok here I will do it for you. for $50 less than a bcm upper you can buy this psa upper, replace the bolt and barrel with better ones than the bcm comes with, and it even comes with fagpul sights.

>>62746493
add two hours of my time @ $245/hr, and about $400 worth of tools, also need to throw in a new rail that doesn't suck.
>fagpul sights
nty

>>62746345
I got a 20" upper with a badly canted FSP, they sent me a new upper but it was still annoying.

>>62746525
You might legitimately be retarded if it takes you more than an hour to swap a barrel

>>62746525
here is another bomb that /arg/ doesn't want to hear, but the handguard doesn't actually matter for 99% of shooters. as long as it's free floated the rest isn't important. holding zero when you drop it or whatever other metric people use to swear their kac shit is worth $400 doesn't matter when the only thing you have mounted on the rail is a flashlight and a flip up sight that you never use.

>>62746573
You've never removed a barrel PSA installed. If it comes out without destroying anything it's a good day.
>>62746579
>KAC shit
>$400
lol

>>62746457
ya that makes sense

>>62746128
>I can't afford buying something that will actually work

>>62746579
>this nigga thinks a KAC handguard costs $400
please stay out of ARG unironically

>>62746485
Same
I watched the recent school of the american rifle teardown and specifically checked the bolt/barrel extension clock and had my LGS check the barrel nut tension but both were well within specs so I guess PSA saw the video and whipped their QC/parts assembler negroes.
Only thing I don't like is that their charging handles are a bit too loose in the ch guide and they overgas/overbuffer the guns but hey they'll run like Rob ski's psa did when it passed his torture test.

>>62746293
this guy actually has guages and psa has been consistently failing for years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nupt3c-tQbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSaULGxrles
those are 4 years apart

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>>62746610
>>62747016
my bad it's """only""" $350 (when it's in stock)

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>>62746014
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
BUY IT RIGHT NOW
BUY BUY BUY BUY!!!!!!!!!!

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>>62746108
don't forget the reaction rod.

>>62746014
My first AR was a 300 dollar franken rifle PSA that must have 5k rounds through it at this point and its still reliable and shoots like 2 MOA. I lost it once and found it outside my woodshed in tall grass literally two weeks later.

In a shootout, would I rather have my LaRue? Of course. But if the PSA was closer at hand I wouldnt think twice about picking it up.

>>62747019
barrel extension timing is set by the index pin. the extension comes with the hole already in place so if it's fucked up it's on whoever made the extension. does psa even make their own or are they oem from whoever they buy their barrels from?

>>62747046
Here's the secret anon, it's never in stock at that price.

>>62746610
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

>>62747071
They are the barrel OEM
>>62747081
parts have a torque spec for a reason.

>>62747071
they torque so hard the steel pin deforms the slot in the aluminum upper receiver

>>62746014
Aren't the bolts Toolcraft? They make everyone's bolts

>>62746355
>non-chrome lined barrels
The only advantage they give to civilians is corrosion resistance, and even then compared to melonite it's practically the same.

>>62747108
There is very little/no torque applied to the index pin when installing (properly) a barrel nut. You're really only applying force to it if you are removing/installing a muzzle device, even then you're more likely to unthread the barrel from the extension.

>>62747239
>properly
yeah there's the problem

I have a bcm upper and 2 PSAs and outside of fit and finish differences and the 'smoothness' of the action being nicer on the bcm they've been functionally identical. I don't beat the shit out of my rifles, but I've put the bcm through some stuff I'd be weary of trying with the psas,like not cleaning it for 5k rounds.

>>62746399
>ok now prove that the cost
no retard. This isn't a game of niggerball you like to watch where some kike ref changes the "call on field" You lose. Get the fuck off the board

>>62746014
You can technically buy a cheap, reliable gun made for the common American or you can technically be a larper who isn't using his gun outside the range anyway.

>>62747321
>or you can technically be a larper who isn't using his gun outside the range anyway.
I also have this attitude, but there's this 1% of me that needs it to be combat worthy...in case.
It's like most other things people justify overdoing

>>62747295
bro I already did the math for you
>>62746493

>>62747342
>combat worthy
what does this mean? does your gun shoot when you pull the trigger? does it hit what you are aiming at? what else do you want from it?
>but muh gun needs to go 20k rounds without maintenance or it's not "g2g"
in any stupid apocalyptic scenario you are imagining you will have a chance to just pick up another rifle long before you shoot out the one you have now

>>62746055
>>62747108
>>62747239
>Clocked barrel extension
hard to believe PSA would not have bought Midwest Industries Upper Receiver Rods by now. Is there anyone still actually getting a clocked barrel extensions or is this 10 year old news people still repeat today?

>>62747366
>what does this mean?
It means unlike a PSA, I would like the chamber to be properly finished so I won't get stuck cases when shooting suppressed. I'd also like it to not be massively overgassed so I can actually shoot normal 5.56 without it being shitty.
>>62746399
watch these
>>62747449

>>62747449
i rmaed an upper 3 years ago for canted irons they mailed it back worse in the opposite direction. the rma process was a pain in the ass fuck fuck game as every email i got regarding it was sent by a different person a few weeks later asking the same info i just fucking sent them. like it was a revolving door of people getting fired and replaced.

some of the youtube vids posted were uppers from a few months ago.

>>62747344
Why is it the gun community only has autists who think this is acceptable. Nobody would buy a cheaper brand new car model that has a known video verified issue with a part and then say "yeah bro but the dealer has a warranty on that part or buy the car and then the part and it's like a bit cheaper".
Nobody buys a cheap electronic vs expensive one with this thought process either "well it's only 50 dollar difference to buy the cheap item and the part that fails with it I'll be replacing"

You are sitting here doing google searches on parts and thinking you win if you can make the number cheaper when YOU LOST THE MOMENT YOU NEEDED TO REPLACE A PART WITH THE NEW GUN BECAUSE IT'S A KNOWN QUALITY DEFECT FUCKED UP/FAILS ALOT.

You lose sir. Now fuck off

>>62747538
>Why is it the gun community only has autists who think this is acceptable. Nobody would buy a cheaper brand new car model that has a known video verified issue with a part and then say "yeah bro but the dealer has a warranty on that part or buy the car and then the part and it's like a bit cheaper".
>Nobody buys a cheap electronic vs expensive one with this thought process either "well it's only 50 dollar difference to buy the cheap item and the part that fails with it I'll be replacing"
its not just the gun community. its poorfags. poorfags infest everything but are drawn to guns.

>>62747538
>>62747553
nah, it's because maybe 10% have those issues

>>62747559
all depends if dumbfuck or drunkfuck was working that shift

>>62747538
if a car only had like 8 distinct parts and you could easily swap a bugatti engine into your kia and get 100% of the performance than yeah you would be pretty stupid to pay for a porsche. or imagine you are building a gayman pc and you could buy a $6000 prebuilt or a $1000 prebuilt and swap $3000 worth of parts into it and have better performance than the more expensive one, but you're freaking out because it's a "franken pc" and doesn't have rgb lights.

>>62747575
you can buy a different not psa brand ar of similar config for 20-50 bucks more and its not a an issue

>>62746223
PSA is the amazon of funs and have the same QC is almost everyone else. its just pure volume shitty guns slip through the cracks sometimes.

mine werk.
love me PSA 15
Love me dagger
Love me sabre 15

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>>62746014
Certified Justasgood™

>>62746014
The PSA rifle is less expensive because they have inferior QC. Their rifles are often assembled incorrectly. Front sight posts are often clocked. Feedramps can be too long or clocked. Sometimes their rifles are assembled without components being torqued properly. Their operation is intended to produce a high volume of guns are the lowest price. Buy it if you want and see if it works out. My buddies have PSAs and they all work fine.

>>62746088
An AR pattern rifle is made from several components all having different tolerances. The rifles are not legos. A rifle comprised of parts that are all technically within spec can be at the upper limits of a spec and still not work correctly when assembled.

BCM does a lot more QC on their guns where as PSA seems to just put a gun together and ship it out in some cases.

The guns might look the same but your much less likely to get a lemon from BCM.

Inb4 bcm shill. I don’t have any bcm guns. I had their grip that all of the YouTube goobers like and I shitcanned it.

>>62746108
Should have got the Mideast reaction rods instead of the vice block.

>>62746355
BCM uses a microbest bolt. It’s the same bolt that goes into colts and sons of liberty. PSA sells the same bolt as the founding father of freedom bolt. Primary Arms sells the same bolt too.

>>62747108
I’ve seen the opposite where the barrel nut hasn’t been torqued sufficiently.

>>62747239
Depends on how the gun is assembled. PSA seems to use a reaction rod without a sail like bill jizzles and when they torque the nut it twists the barrel often canting the front sight post. They could solve this problem with a Midwest reaction rod.

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>>62746014
It's the same rifle. Funny enough I actually forgot which one was the PSA and BCM when making this. The world may never know.

>>62748130
reaction rod is the inferior design because it only locks into the barrel extension. it's ok for installing muzzle devices, but sucks for installing barrel nuts where you want to be holding the receiver. for that you want a clamshell type fixture. the bev block more or less stops the receiver from twisting so it's ok for most jobs.

>>62746225
11.5-2.5 is sbr sweet spot
10.5 is the limit
less than that is flashbang city

>>62746014
My ar is all psa besides the bcg. Which is an M16 full auto bcg made from nickel boron. She's a solid rifle. Never had problems. Accurate and reliable.

>>62746014
The average customer for those guns will never shoot more than 1000 rounds with those, so what differences does it make?

>>62747538
>Nobody would buy a cheaper brand new car model that has a known video verified issue
yet people still buy hyundai, kia, vw, audi, bmw and mercedes

>>62746014
Poor shit armory and BBCM both are shit

>>62748186
the midwest version has a long protrusion that goes into the CH slot on the upper receiver which keeps the receiver from moving around

>>62746014
There's nothing wrong with PSA, they just have more instances of bad rifles cause they produce 10 times more rifles than other companies. BCM quality would be absolutely abysmal if they tried to match PSA's production output. They are aware of their situation that's why they have a warranty for everything so somebody that actually shoots guns will know within the first week if it's worth sending back for a replacement.

>>62746014
the assembly technicians are poorly trained and perform low quality work upon assembly. for example the barrel nut tends to be massively over torqued, which leads to problems with the front sight and gas tube alignment. this can lead to reliability problems when the gas key contacts the gas tube and causes dragging or outright bending of the tube.

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>>62746223
All right you nigger. One of my guns came with the barrel extension cuts and the M4 receiver cuts not aligned, enough to cause a rare feed issue. So I had to get out the Sandpaper and cleaning rod and fix those myself. BCG for my 308 couldn't be disassembled, the cam pin wouldn't clear the gas key. Those are my 2.

>>62746225
No. You'll feel the concussion mote than a 16" but it's ok.

>>62746355
Gas port is fine. Get a heavy buffer and/or agb if you sneed it. Without a can it's a non-issue.

>>62746052

hahah bullshit

>>62746128
>buying dogshit is good actually because then you might learn something
Yeah, I'll learn never to buy dogshit again. Coping poorfag.

>>62746088
>isnt the only important part of an AR the barrel and bolt group?
Of course not.
The gas system is very important as is the recoil spring and buffer. The fire control is too. There are details of assembly that can be the difference between the rifle working well or not at all.
Someone who isn't aware of this is not in a position to "fully tear down" one and fix it.
That said the PSA is a better choice than pretty much anything else at that price. Better even than a lot of more expensive guns. The AR market is full of grifters.
But with a BCM you are more likely to get a properly assembled gun and the parts will be made to a better spec. Whether that matters to you for what you will be doing with the gun is a question only you can answer.

>>62746493
Youre still stuck with a dog shit rail and charging handle though? This just proves you should build one yourself

>>62746223
Only issue I've had was a loose gasblock. Tightened it to proper torque specs and it works just fine. Silly shit like that is semi-common.

>>62749282
Here's how I see it OP. PSA's have their reputation for a reason and there's a 99.99% probably that the BCM will be better, not only in how it was put together but the BCG and upper will have better QC overall.
The PSA will likely be fine, if there's anything wrong with it the bolt (mostly the bolt carrier) it would likely be the gas ring bore/three bore/free bore or whatever the fuc it's called having bad chrome, being too big or small leading to a bad gas seal, then if it's also rough your gas rings will be toast extremely fast.
The other things like the rail, gas port size, barrel nut being gorilla torqued on by a crackhead, etc, literally don't matter as long as the gun runs. If the BCG is shit just get a spare microbest like anons have mentioned.
You'll find out quick if the hobby is for you or not, if it is you can just build or order a nicer upper since you have a lower (that's hopefully in spec). If you ain't bout that life, you have something that will save your life as long as you've verified it works.
Tons of ppl rack their brian trying to figure out which AR to get then shoot it twice a year, just get whatever you think looks cool and if it's cheap you can just get the parts you need and you'll learn the workings of the system and have fun tinkering w/ shit if your autistic.

>>62747449
You're like when I argue with my dad about how fucked things are he's like "logically our leaders wouldn't just fuck our own people over, logically a company wouldn't do retarded things because muh invisible hand of the free market!"

Bro. They don't give a fuck they just churn shit out even if it would be easy to fix

OP here. Im guessing the SABRE line also has these problems? or do they get extra special care because more $$$?

>>62748138
>BCM uses a microbest bolt
Prove it
>it’s the same bolt that goes into colts
No it's not.
>sons of liberty
Prove it

>>62748800
A heavier buffer doesn't change the gas port size. It is not a fix for overgassing. It's a bandaid that fixes some of the symptoms, but not all.

>>62746573
Self report that he doesn’t even know how to clean his own gun. kek

>>62751499
>thinks you have to remove an AR barrel to clean it
are you retarded?

>>62746088
>>62746108
>>62746345
>>62747726
>>62747735
>>62748795
>buy the full kit instead on the same website
>save $100
>enjoy the money or even pay someone local and gud to assemble it

???

>>62749301
>literally don't matter as long as the gun runs
a gun with a clocked barrel will function but damage itself each shot when it shouldnt be damaging itself.
just cause it functions doesnt mean its fine.

>>62746345
Who the fuck are these clowns getting full ass rifles not put together correctly? Did they fucking send it to you in pieces like a lego set? What the fuck do you mean? I swear gun guys and car guys turn to little karen bitches if they get 1 order wrong by the slightest measurement. Or if they ever recieve 1, just 1 bad order or part out of spec its always "ALRIGHT NEVER AGAIN PSA IS THE WORST COMPANY. IN! THE! WOOOOOOOOOOORLD!" all over 1 fucking bad piece.

>>62752833
yeah I'm not interesting in the thing that is supposed to save my life and contain explosions not being put together correctly.
>waaaah your standards are too high
I'm glad your time, money, and life are all worthless to you. It gladdens me that you give yourself up so cheaply.

>>62752841
You will never see a fire fight in your life. And if you did. my fucking psa rifle works just fine and no i didnt take it all apart one by one screw by screw because im a ocd karen faggot. and it shoots and will kill anyone that tries to hurt me. then you watch me loot your fucking dumb ass daniel defense from your ocd ridden body. chump.

>>62752846
>You will never see a fire fight in your life
I already have.
>my fucking psa rifle works just fine
That's cool, the only two I've handled in person didn't. Yes, I really will write off an entire brand because I got one dud, it doesn't hurt me at all to do so.
>then you watch me loot your fucking dumb ass daniel defense from your ocd ridden body.
Revenge fantasies will not change the reality of your situation.

>>62752858
>>You will never see a fire fight in your life
>I already have.
Shooting at Tyrones in your driveway doesn't count.

>>62752863
Thankfully there aren't any niggers where I live. I see one black person a year, a client of mine, he's a doctor. I'm pretty sure at this point he's literally the only black person in the county.
>muh firefights
Wasting my time in Nuristan Province making Afghanistan and America both worse places suddenly means I need a better rifle than you? It's really not my problem if your time and life aren't worth any money, but at least have some self respect.

>>62752887
how is buying a cheap working rifle not respecting yourself?

>>62752946
>I'm fine with out of spec parts it's just like one small part what are you complaining about? It's totally OCD to want a working gun!
that'd be bad enough but
>spending hours arguing with anyone who doesn't agree, then fantasize about killing them and taking their guns, because even though yours are totally justasgood, you still want the better one
tells me you don't believe your own bullshit and this is all just a poorly thought out ego preservation ritual.

>how is buying a cheap working rifle not respecting yourself?
Is not the same thing. The difference is the lack of an inferiority complex.

>>62752992
Yeah meanwhile you got shot because you were upset your Daniel Defense got dirty.

>>62752998
Did Marty Daniel rape your anime pillow or something? Why is a mid-tier AR manufacturer the direct embodiment of your fears?

>>62753005
That's all you faggots talk about.
>DD is the best
>DD is superior
>DD fucks my wife while I watch
But PSA has affordable guns that kill and i had no problem with them so.

>>62753005
OOoohhh Daniel Defense is MID-TIER now. Kill yourself gonsoomer

>>62753015
The only person who has brought up DD is you though. That's your inferiority complex, not my problem.
>DD fucks my wife while I watch
fuck it was the anime pillow wasn't it?

I'm sorry that happened bro, Marty is a fuckin animal, when he sees 2d poon he can't stop himself. I hope you and your waifu can repair your relationship
>>62753018
Yeah, a $1500 AR is solidly mid-tier. Always has been.

>>62753026
That's crazy. Nice nepotism rage bait. You're a nepo baby.

>>62753026
So, how long until Daniel Defense is low tier you retard?

>>62746014
You can go cheap with AR lowers. PSA lowers are perfectly fine, it's the uppers you wanna spend money on. A BCM or DD upper mated to a PSA lower, while funny, would work just fine.

>>62753046
>A BCM or DD upper mated to a PSA lower, while funny
How is that funny? They're both good fucking guns nigger

>>62753050
Because you're mating what are arguably the best uppers in the industry with the cheapo brand lower.

>>62753053
>what are arguably the best uppers in the industry
Nope. according to the anon a few posts up, Daniel Defense is now MID-TIER anon.

>>62753032
This is probably going to hurt, but $1500 on a purchase that can last multiple generations of use shouldn't be something a grown adult man can't even fathom. It might not be something you want, that's fine. But to pretend the only way someone can afford something that cheap is nepotism? Hopefully you're like a highschool student with a part time job, because otherwise you need to really get your shit together and stop being a loser.
>>62753036
Hopefully never. But they are making a lot of poor decisions. The RIS III is very poorly thought out, an mlok rail that weighs an ounce less than the heaviest picatinny rail on the market is absurd. The plastic dust covers are ugly and they only switched to them because people were whining about scratches on metal dustcovers, the proper response would be to tell the customers to fuck off. Their refusal to develop a modern tapering profile barrel and sticking adamantly with government profile as standard is a very backwards decision. They also still have not developed a quality improved trigger or just bitten the bullet and worked with Schmid to brand a two stage to throw in.

All of these point to a risk of stagnation and being left behind by newer more innovative companies. Finally developing an ambidextrous lower for the RIS III rifle was one step forward, two back.
>>62753063
Always have been.

>>62752992
if the gun works it works. if it doesn't work you will know as soon as you try shooting it so it's not like you are going to be surprised in an emergency. all that matters for your rifle is
>does it work?
>does it have the features I want?
>does it meet my standard for accuracy
for the majority of gun owners psa is good enuff and for those who are looking for more spending more for whatever /arg/ is currently jerking off over isn't actually going to be any better.

>>62753095
>isn't actually going to be any better.
It is though. I do like my nice trigger, gas not raping my face, and cases not getting stuck in a poorly machined unfinished chamber. I like my rail being able to hold zero.

Good enough is not good enough for me, and it certainly isn't truly justasgood. Better things are actually better.

>>62746397
>>62747006
>>62749018
When rich faggot daddys boys and nepo babies can't fathom normal dudes getting by with their cheap rifles and hitting every shot without their gucci slings and bull shit. Fucking faggots.

>>62753115
>waaah someone has a job that pays more than minimum wage! This is nepotism!
Are you a fucking communist or some shit? Christ you're a gigantic faggot retard.

>>62753095
there are levels of working that isnt the gun exploded and killed me.

>>62753115
The real problem with PSA's is getting over the 5k mark. If you want a rifle that lasts, PSA 'can' offer that if you get lucky with the build quality. Whereas the high end shit has that as a guarantee.

>>62746493
My man

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An AR is an AR, even a 400 USD carbine in 5.56 like an AR-15.

>>62746525
>add two hours of my time @ $245/hr
Kill yourself lol

>>62747077
Here's the secret. Don't overpay for shit, you dumb fuck.

>>62753132
>Whereas the high end shit has that as a guarantee.
Until the one time it doesn't. Then what?
With PSA you'd swear them off never buy from them again.
But if your gucci rifle was guarantee to do something and last x many bullets, and it doesn't?
>Oh well. They are still the best!

>>62753074
>Their refusal to develop a modern tapering profile barrel and sticking adamantly with government profile as standard is a very backwards decision

Why change it? Almost nobody has full auto and anyone that wants an SPR is just going to build their own. What manufacturer actually bothers to put in profiles that aren't pencil/gov that aren't gucci?

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>>62753139
I won't, don't worry.
>>62753145
>But if your gucci rifle was guarantee to do something and last x many bullets, and it doesn't?
Says who? LMT shipped me a dogshit fucked up lower and I'm never buying from them again. Fuck em.
>>62753159
>Why change it?
Because Geissele is eating their lunch and beating them at their own game.
>Almost nobody has full auto and anyone that wants an SPR is just going to build their own
What do you think that has to do with anything? Government profile sucks because it puts all the weight right where does the least good and affects handling the most. There's no excuse for it. It doesn't matter what you do with your gun, government profile makes it worse and it has no benefits at all.
>Not gucci
Weren't you throwing a fit that I called DD mid tier? You got brain damage? That's who we're talking about
>What manufacturer actually bothers to put in profiles that aren't pencil/gov that aren't gucci?
Geissele, BCM, Centurion, Criterion, Aero, fucking Faxon. The better question is who doesn't? DD. That's about it.

>>62753177
Damn for $1,388.25 I can upgrade my PSA and get a full kit and destroy your body and loot your shit.

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>>62753177
>Weren't you throwing a fit that I called DD mid tier? You got brain damage? That's who we're talking about

I'll be real with you, I just got here

>>62753183
That's great anon. For $1,388.25 I got a $2000 upper and didn't have to fantasize about killing people who hurt my feelings on the internet, it was pretty cool.

Maybe if you were a better person you'd be able to just buy things instead of hoping you can loot them later.
>>62753194
ok, welcome to the shitfest, pick a side and start flinging

>>62753204
How soft are you, feeling threatened over the internet? It's clearly banter. I'm just making a point.

>>62753212
>How soft are you, feeling threatened over the internet?
How hard are you, getting degraded and called a poorfag over and over again? It's clearly your fetish.
>I'm just making a point.
What is your point? That your gun is justasgood but also you'd rather have mine and would take it if available in an instant? I know. I'm aware. You're doing a poor job of hiding it.

>>62753225
>How hard are you, getting degraded and called a poorfag over and over again? It's clearly your fetish.
Talking about my dick bro? Daniel Defense fags ARE fags...... Hmmmm

>>62753108
if you want a nice trigger buy your jizzele or your larue or your triggertech if you are rich and replace whatever crap it came with. I don't think any off the shelf rifles come with any of these options. if you don't want gas in your face buy an adjustable gas block. then you can tune it for the specific ammo you are shooting and don't need to get a different barrel if you screw a can on. again I don't know of any off the shelf rifles that come with one, at least not any of the ones /arg/ jerks off over. these are real substantive improvements you can make on your rifle, but spending more money on roll marks isn't going to get you them.

>>62753129
like what? better accuracy? then buy a match barrel like woa or cle and put it on. basically it comes down to this: if you want features then pay for features. if you think you are getting some intangible non-feature improvement by buying more expensive brands you are getting swindled. for the vast majority of shooters who don't care about gamer features psa is literally gud enuff.

>>62753239
>Talking about my dick bro?
No I was clearly making an innuendo about your nipples you fucking fag, it's getting cold out.
>>62753246
>I don't think any off the shelf rifles come with any of these options
Many rifles come with Geissele triggers, including of course Geissele rifles. Many more come with various two stage triggers that are vastly better than the especially shitty DD milspec trigger, such as KAC's 2stage or LMT's.
>if you don't want gas in your face buy an adjustable gas block.
No thanks, I don't like those shitty things that break or get carbon locked. I'll just have a properly gassed rifle from the factory.

>>62753246
>buying more expensive brands you are getting swindled.
there are ars in the same price range that dont have the constant issues psa does

>>62753263
>there are ars in the same price range that dont have the constant issues psa does
>I just hate what everyone else hates.
If PSA is bad because it's affordable then what is the fucking better alternative to PSA you fucking nerd

>>62753263
idk bro you can get a complete PSA for under $400 regularly. I don't think anyone in that price range can beat it. The problem is poors can't be happy about that but have to pretend it's standing toe to toe with rifles that cost literally 4-5x as much.
>>62753257
oh yeah and forgot to mention of course there's still the issue of PSA's dogshit unfinished chambers causing stuck cases and their shitass rails not holding zero.

You don't have to pay for a rollmark to get better than PSA. Use their receivers if you want, it probably won't make a difference, they've mostly figured out how to drill trigger pin holes properly after a decade of doing it.

>>62753276
>The problem is poors can't be happy about that but have to pretend it's standing toe to toe with rifles that cost literally 4-5x as much.
Besides the quality of metal and the parts you pay extra for, what makes them not stand toe to toe just because it's expensive? You're paying for the process and the parts that come with it.
But take a PSA and a DD with no sights or anything next to each other. How do they not stand toe to toe?

>>62753289
psa fucked up the assembly of perfectly good parts and turned them into subpar ones

>>62753294
>psa fucked up the assembly of perfectly good parts and turned them into subpar ones
H o w, my nigga
o
w

>>62753298
over torquing them, canting, various alignment issues. even if you take it apart and reassemble deformation happened.

>>62753306
How is my PSA rifle gonna shoot when it has various alignment issues and canting and all that?

>>62746485
People just wanna hate, if they didn't hate PSA, who else would they hate?

>>62753289
Sorry anon I have a KAC so I'll be comparing that to my friend's PSA. I'm not interested in your vendetta against DD.
>KAC rail is incredibly light but still holds zero
>KAC is incredibly well gassed, very pleasant to shoot suppressed
>KAC barrel profile is nice and light
>KAC barrel is CHF/CL and has shown no decrease in accuracy at 12,000 rounds
>KAC came with sights so I don't have to compare them with no sights
PSA
>rail cannot hold zero and has come loose all on its own since it's just held on by friction
>is incredibly overgassed, horrible to shoot suppressed
>trigger pins walk over time when firing
>eats gas rings every 500 rounds
>PSA nitride barrel needed replaced at 8000 rounds, was massively over-torqued
>before changing barrel would constantly get stuck cases when firing suppressed
>government profile sucks
>mbus sights are functionally better than KAC sights imo, so it's got that going for it

>>62753313
because its all minor and the parts deform over time with unnatural wear patterns to make the gun work.
put it like this youve got a door with a loose hinge
your solution is slam the door harder
after all it still opens and closes its "functional"

not tighten or adjust the hinge so it opens and closes smoothly without hitting the frame. just brute force it.

and you defend this cause the guy charged you 5 bucks less.

>>62753326
ITs' more like
>I got a cheap door that works! Look!
You guys with your gucci doors
>Nah bro that shits all wooden and you gotta manually turn the knob and wood degrades over thousands of years but you wont be alive but still
>you should get this self closing door for 15k bro.

>>62753341
>implying you have a wood door
yeah right bitch you got that particle board and bullshit door, don't lie fucker. Like hell you're paying for a solid oak exterior door don't fuck with me.

>>62753347
Nah man. Because I gotta actually take care of my door. I'd rather drop 15k in a self cleaning door by Daniel Defense and Knight Armament Doors. Bro. Who the fuck takes the time to fix their shit? Cheap ass brokie wooden door niggas. That's who.

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here is a random build that will absolutely shoot the pants off a "mid tier" ddm4 for nearly $500 less. you could buy the complete rifle in the op for $550 and replace all of the substantive parts when they break like you are convinced that they will and still come out ahead. stop listening to /arg/. they are essentially a bunch of women who look down on you for not having a brand name purse.

>>62753353
>brake
>cassette trigger
>moe
>stainless barrel
>adjustable gas block
>shitty rail
wow it's all crap.

>>62753341
the door is the bolt and the frame is your barrel extension. its not supposed to be hitting but it is cause assembly was fucked up.
you keep going on about price and how oh you need the expensive things, paying more is stupid.
youve completly missed the point.
nigga its the assembly thats fucked.
what you are paying other companies for is for them to not fuck up your good parts with bad installation.

>>62753361
Fucking hate faggots like you.
>>62753353
My man.

>>62753369
I'm sure you do. All you want is gimmick bullshit that sucks, but costs more so you think it's good.

>>62753370
What? I'm against paying for expensive ass guns.

>>62753362
So you admit PSA has good parts.

>>62753361
>it's not loius vuitton stacy will make fun of me
explain how any of those parts will stop you from nailing targets

>>62753362
no it's like you telling someone with a door that opens and closes as required that his door doesn't actually work and he's just imagining that it's working and he'll be sorry when it breaks (in two more weeks).

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>>62753376
>no it's like you telling someone with a door that opens and closes as required that his door doesn't actually work and he's just imagining that it's working and he'll be sorry when it breaks (in two more weeks).

>>62753372
But you just made that PSA rifle worse for no reason.
>barrel that is the same accuracy but less durable
wow nice
>gas block that will seize and fail
wow that sure was worth a hundred dollars!
>shitty rail that can't hold zero
at least it's light and almost cheap I guess
>cassette trigger for over $200
retarded
>wasting $100 on a gamer brake
nice, that'll tame the punishing recoil of 5.56 and let everyone know you're an idiot at the same time
>$300 BCG that does the same thing as a $100 bcg
it's trash

Your taste is bad and you should feel bad.
>>62753376
by breaking like the fragile crap half of that junk is

>>62753385
that wasn't me who made that build, it was this guy >>62753376
dumb ass anon. know who ur talking to like that.

>>62753376
except you actually see wear on the door and frame but ignore it cause you live in poorfag denial that anything is wrong.

>>62753385
explain how parts that are popular with comp shooters that go through more rounds in a month than you do in two years are somehow not durable enough. explain why everyone shooting where accuracy matters is using stainless barrels.

>>62753392
Then don't bitch and moan saying "I hate faggots like you" when I call the trash build trash.
>>62753369
Suck all my assholes retardo.

>>62753398
Comp shooters are plebs with dogshit taste. They also burn through parts like you can't afford to.
>explain why everyone shooting where accuracy matters is using stainless barrels.
Because someone told them stainless barrels are more accurate so they think they're more accurate. That's why. It's fuddlore.

Stainless barrels in general are more accurate than chrome lined barrels, because they have no lining. Neither do nitrided barrels however, so you can get the accuracy and more durability. If you're not getting a custom or semi-custom cut rifled barrel, there is no advantage to stainless. There is however a major disadvantage to stainless, in that it is much less durable.

Of course in the end it all comes down to quality, and a Criterion chrome lined barrel will btfo most stainless barrels, despite chrome lining inherently degrading accuracy from what it "could" be.

>>62753005
>DD is mid-tier
>>62753026
>1500 AR is solidly mid-tier. Always has been.
holy fuck go back to instagram you stupid nigger. are you going to post an epic noveske build that's never been shot and call it the minimum next?

>>62753426
white oak and compass lake are semi custom barrels you tard.
>comp shooters are plebs even though they are sponsored to shoot while I just sit in my basement rping about how I'm gonna shoot people with my high speed combat rifle.

>>62753443
Noveske is a lower flavor of mid. Yes anon, a rifle that costs as much as a basic Colt is mid-tier. It's not bad. It's good. But it's not amazing. Get used to it, you've been living in this reality your whole life you need to accept it.

>>62753445
White oak is mid and boomers pretend it's not because "muh SPR." Does literally nothing a ballistic advantage stainless barrel doesn't do, which also does nothing a ballistic advantage nitride barrel doesn't already do. You don't want to hear it but it's true.


Get a Bartlein, Krieger, Rock Creek, or don't get stainless.

JP is also trash. I need to dig into you more for that you're getting off too easy. Nearly $400 for a shitty nitride BCG, god damn you're a fucking retard. Thank god you're too poor to buy that trash part list.

>>62753467
Paying $400 for an AR is retarded but calling a $1.5k build "mid-tier" is fantastically retarded given the insurmountable amount of actual good parts you can get both on and off sale to fall right under a $1.5k budget. Kill yourself

>>62746014
cheaper metalurgy all around. handguards will loosen. cheap 6061 charging handle not 7075, will wear crazy fast and bend and feel like a pos. cheap nitride coatings on everything that wear off quickly. cheap metal triggers and pins and springs everywhere making it feel like a toy compared to a dd/colt/fn. barrel accuracy could be 2-3moa, but at worst like 6moa. sure they generally work. but after ~3k rnds, the wear and cheapness will be aparent and leave you wanting. most will never buy anything nicer and wrongly assume all ar are like that.

>>62753132
>getting over the 5k mark
At that point you've spent far more on the ammunition than on the gun. Most people shoot a few hundred rounds a year, if that, so the gun should last a decade. Guns are tools and the same practice I've learned with tools applies. Buy a cheaper tool and use it until it breaks or you reach the point where the limiting factor is the tool and not your ability to use it. Then go and do the 'buy once cry once' rule.
If you always buy the 'best' tool you're going to overspend on a lot of shit you use once and let collect dust in the garage. Same with guns and gear.
Also you can buy what, 3-4 PSA ok rifles for the cost of one great rifle? If it bites the dust at 5k and the good rifles die at 15-20k rounds, it may not be a big deal to buy the cheap ones. I'd also feel more comfortable doing shit like putting one for those 22lr converters in a cheaper gun or letting a friend borrow it.
But if you have the money do what you like, it's your hobby.

>>62753477
>Paying $400 for an AR is retarded
Disagree, much as PSAfag will probably lose his mind, there's nothing wrong with paying $400 for an AR. If it works it works. I just like nicer things.
>calling a $1.5k build "mid-tier" is fantastically retarded
Getting mad won't change it, it's mid-tier. It does everything it should and then some, but lacks the standout features of a truly high-tier AR. It's literally a normal milspec gun with a CHF barrel instead, that's fuckin mid-tier.
>>62753498
PSA charging handle is 7075. Metallurgy is no different it's not like they forge their own steel or aluminum retard. Nitride for all its flaws (mostly to damaging heat treatment when done cheaply) is literally not a coating and does not wear off easily, it's a steel treatment that penetrates deeper than surface depth. It will not "wear off." PSA barrel accuracy is actually quite good and is one of the areas they don't really need to improve.

Moron.

>>62753501
my god youd defend those io aks that blew up with that reasoning

>>62753505
Do PSA ARs blow up? Or are they often decent enough rifles to get into the hobby with?
I know this is a board of people with means, but most people want affordable options to try out before getting all the way into a hobby. I wouldn't tell someone to spend $40k on tools to try out basic woodworking, even though that's what you likely need to spend to do great cabinetry, for example.

So what I'm taking from this thread is that the M&P Sport is the way to go for people who want inexpensive rifles that won't explode in their faces.

>>62753661
PSA doesn't explode. It's user error.

>>62753683
So, M&P for the novice/weekend warrior who may not know how to prevent catastrophic failure then?

>>62753767
M&P and PSA are both perfect for novices like yourself. Just don't panic buy.

>>62746128
>If you're a trust fund baby and have never worked a day in your life and have absolutely zero hands on knowledge or skills
Wow anon that's a lot of cope and seethe

>>62753801
Thank you for the reassurance. To hear /arg/ tell it you're literally hitler for considering them, but really I just want to know if I'm going to enjoy tinkering with and shooting rifles before I spend a shitzilion dollars.

>>62746014
is there anything wrong with buying one of these and then buying a better BCG, trigger, and barrel?
you keep the stock ones as replacement parts.

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>>62746128
Upgrading as you go is retarded. you spend 2x more in the long run and waste a ton of time. Just buy a quality mid range AR and spend that time shooting instead

>>62754203
>is there anything wrong with buying one of these and then buying a better BCG, trigger, and barrel?
No but you should just buy a upper without those things if you're gonna replace them anyways. Save money, live better.

>>62746429
>part breaks when you need it
Just send it back bro.

Brilliant idea dude.

>>62754231
How do you fucking break a piece of fucking metal in your gun. Stop larping socom drills at your local range and fucking your gun up just because you're a macho man

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>>62754252
>how metal break ?
Idn retard maybe metal breaks when put under high stresses and heat caused by the explosion they are containing.

Parts break, esp when they are low quality and out of spec which is why you don’t buy junk.

>>62746493
>"I don't care if the pizza comes with pieces of shit on it, just pick them off and add pepperoni!"
BCM is a solid company. Can you make a better rifle for less? Yeah, all you need to do is spend countless hours on forums and youtube videos building the knowledge base, and then hundreds on tools which are useful for nothing else.

By the time you're finished you've probably paid yourself $0.15 an hour, and you will not do the work regularly enough for subsequent builds not to require constant referencing of online material. Remember to put your jigs and gauges on a high shelf so that in 5-10 years (the next time you touch them) they're not rusted out of spec.

>>62754252
Why are you making a Sacramento wine aunt argument against all gun ownership?

>>62754387
kek ok you got me there

>>62753353
rentry(.)org/sa6c4m

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PSA is fine because all ARs are dogshit, why spend 2k on a shit stick when you can pay $500?

>>62754614
>2k on a shit stick
Like current AK's?

>>62753115
>having money is when nepotism and trust funds
This is the mindset of someone who peaked in 11th grade and lost all desire and drive to advance themself past high school because a teacher told them they were smarter than their age and now they're reaping the repercussions of coasting on a compliment.

>>62746014
Ruger AR can handle fully auto 20,000 rounds none stop

>>62746014
In general I’m against the idea of buying general purpose self defense military rifles that don’t have chrome lined barrels, so I’d buy a premium if you’re going with PSA. I love PSA, but their main issue is assembly QC. Their actual parts are typically good quality. Their ARs just typically have improperly aligned barrels, which is an easy enough fix if you have the set up to correct it. If you get a decent rifle that’s assembled correctly you will have a very good quality rifle, but if you don’t, then you won’t. If you want a no frills rifle, you’re more likely to get that from a BCM. If you have a friend who has experience fixing rifles or you’re not afraid of just jumping in and learning, then getting a PSA premium is a good option, then you can spend the money you save on tools to maintain the rifle.

ITT:
>/arg/stagram convinced that if you don't spend at least $3.5k on your 5.56 semi auto AR you will instantly die when boogerlube
vs.
>Poverty State Armory
Honestly, I find the PSAfags less annoying just because they shit up fewer threads. /arg/ in comparison has made it impossible to have a serious conversation about ARs that doesn't immediately boil down to:
>ur poor
>t. guy with a spotless brass deflector

>>62746225
It’s a good starting point that is perfectly suitable for you to learn about the platform and defend yourself in the meantime. Eventually though you’ll want to learn to replace the barrel and get like a criterion or something in the future. The short PSA barrels are typically going to have about a 7k lifespan.

>>62746457
Yeah, the basic BCM uppers with FSBs and no handguards are like $550 with a BCG. So you buy a $130 PSA lower, a $15 PSA charging handle, a $30 magpul handguard and $50 rear sight and you’ve got a really good rifle.

>>62754944
PSA users are annoying in the same way revolver users are annoying. most of their arguments boil down to 'ur never gonna use it!' so the quality differences don't matter.

People also seem to forget that NO ONE WILL BUY YOUR PSA. they hold NO VALUE. inb4 retards say shit like ">selling guns" because someone on here said the same thing. Guns hold value, but only if they are quality guns, entry-level firearms barely hold value, almost worse than custom guns because everyone already has them. No one wants your PSA AR in a trade and you will not get more than like 75% of what you paid.

IMO if you are going to buy an AR it makes sense to use a reasonably priced lower, like aero, then splurge on a quality upper like a DD socom, both total out to like 1100 and you now have a quality gun people actually want so if you ever want to upgrade you can reliably flip or trade it. The idea of a 'starter AR' is stupid, its just wasting money, this isn't some random hobby you're trying out on a whim and aren't sure you're gonna like it, you're already a gun guy theres no question you're going to continue doing gun shit so skip 'entry level' and go straight to mid-range.

long post because lmao 900 seconds

The AR15 has been figured out for decades now, absolutely no reason for one to cost over $600. We have evolved rifles like the SCAR platform that are worth spending over a grand for then you have companies trying to compete with these rifles with their basic bitch ass AR15s, get the fuck out of here.

>>62746014
Get a PSA complete lower, and build your own upper. It's really that simple. I'm not sure why people still buy fully built uppers, for $500 you can build an exceptionally nice upper that performs similarly to $1000+ uppers. You won't have to worry about it being overgassed, having poor quality parts or being assembled by some meximutt that showed up to work late fighting off a modelo hangover.

>>62751327
Bcm uses toolcraft IIRC.
Colt made their own bolts for a long time (c-stamped) but they outsource them now. Most likely toolcraft or microbest.
No idea about SOL, who do you think makes them?

>>62753026
>$1500 mid tier
When you pay $1500 for a $600 rifle because your dumbass thinks getting raped and gaped by your lgs inherently makes the rifle better, sure, I could believe that. You can build an upper for $650 that blows bcm, larue, geissele complete uppers out of the water if you just look for parts hard enough and do the work yourself. I swear you retards on this board make it a competition to overspend as much as possible and get the worst deals available.

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>>62755289
>Frankenbuild
>Having value

>>62753053
>bcm
>arguably the best uppers
Pick one, faggot. Bcm is good, not great. Certainly far from the best.

>>62755714
>DD socom on an aero lower
>frankenbuild

cmon buddy.

>>62752470
Yeah this is the real best way to do it. Shame PSA doesn’t do like Aero and sell just their uppers with no barrel.

>>62753298
That is the fundamental issue with PSA. Their parts are nearly or just as good, especially when you have the FN barrels thrown in. It’s just their assembly QC that shits the bed.

>>62753289
The DD will be a better rifle. The best bang for your buck build out there is to nab a discounted DD upper from brownells for like $750 and toss it on a PSA lower, fantastic rifle for about $1000. I love PSA but obviously the DD will be better out of the box. But you do have options with saving the money, like tossing a Riflespeed gas bloc on it or something.

>>62755023
lmao this clown thinks a non-ff handguard is better than even the cheapest psa one. /arg/ has completely warped this board.

>>62755289
larperators are the ones who don't shoot their guns and thus have no idea what actual quality is. I posted an example of a gamer build full of quality parts and people said it was bad because their understanding of quality is just buzzwords like "chf" and "metallurgy."

>>62754165
PSA is the undisputed champion when it comes to hobby entry, no doubt about that. Your move would just be to get all your stuff together then eventually migrate everything to a new upper. Buy your light, your optic, and sling then when you have the money just buy a BCM upper to slap on your PSA lower and you’re fine.

>>62754944
Yeah, I agree. Both sides are gay about it. I used to be in the PSA worship camp when I first got into ARs, but I see their shortcomings after some experience. But overall the Gucci fags are totally poisoning the well of the hobby.

>>62755900
I hate ARG and for budgetary concerns, yeah the BCM with a MOE handguard to just mount a light and nothing else is going to be way better than a basic Freedom PSA. I say this as someone whose only two ARs are PSAs, one basic freedom for my dad and one of their premium, pre-Sabre 14.7s.

>>62753426
IME nitride barrels from reputable brands are perfectly fine for non-duty rifles even if you dump massive amounts of ammo through them, my first AR had one and saw tons of abuse and was still spotless when I sold it. With that said, get a chrome lined barrel thats at least $200-$300 for anything serious. On the discussion of PSA I know their H&R line uses green mountain barrels which are solid
>>62753502
Millions of colts made in the 20th century with button rifles barrels and a lower level of precision than modern production AR parts killed tens to hundreds of thousands of people in filthy, extreme environments. Early-mid GWOT is riddled with stories of soldiers nig rigging leapers handguards and other components onto their rifles just before deployments. Shitrod ARs with MOE handguards and shit tier red dots are currently slotting russians by the dozen in absolutely heinous mud and grime today. Whatever your personal opinion is on AR tiers, it most definitely does not line up with real world use.

>>62755289
Revolverfags aren't annoying at all, they barely exist. And I'm talking about buying guns for personal use, not trying to run a business selling them, and even if I was, my old surplus has reliably gained way more value than any semi auto AR. Outside of /arg/stagram very few people care about spending five to ten times more than is needed to get a perfectly reliable rifle. Something like an Anderson, PSA, or M&P15 is 80-90% of the functionality of a $5k instamaxxed KAC for 10-15% of the price. The hurr durr poorfag shit has made it impossible to get good advice here. 10+ years ago I was able to have a conversation with anons here about ARs (still wish I'd grabbed a Mega MATEN receiver set), now it's no different than fancy shoes or purses. There used to be a chart of which manufacturers offered which features that got posted all the time in arguments. Now? I haven't seen anything like that in years, everything boils down to "hurr y u poor?" and if people do mention features, they can't explain what makes brand x's chrome lined barrel better than brand y's beyond it being more expensive. For the record, I own zero PSA products and don't think they were even in business when I bought my first AR, but my old Bushmaster would be considered utter garbage today, won't last 500 rounds, instantly dead when boogerlube, etc. and yet it has held up into somewhere in the 10-20k round range just fine, and I'm sure if I still had the time to shoot that I did when I was younger it would last many more. People don't know how good they have it and would rather treat everything like a social media peacocking competition.

>>62756079
>The hurr durr poorfag shit has made it impossible to get good advice here

no it hasn't, the advice you get just isn't what you want to hear. this is a gun ENTHUSIAST board. no one here wants you to buy basic bitch guns. people recommend guns that are going to be proven and have a good track record, usually from agencies or militaries. /arg/ especially is a general for AR 'super users', no one there wants to hear about your M&P or PSA or Ruger, the goal of /arg/ is to discuss what is the BEST, natually theres also the same shitposting you get in most generals added on.

>>62756144
Everyone on /arg/ is either a shitposter with some nice guns, a narcissistic loser with an inflated sense of self, or one of the mentally ill nutcases that plagues every single general on this website like ash. Bottom line, take nothing seriously from that thread unless theyre talking about something like nods or suppressors

>Have about $500 to spend
>Want a decent range gun that might become a SHTF gun over time
>Not much in the way of options

It's basically just PSA and ATI and the latter are plastic.

>>62756144
>this is a gun ENTHUSIAST board
Sure, but part of the whole thing about hosting discussion on the topic, any topic, is that at least 50% of all of your discussion is going to come from people looking for advice on how to get started. There's no such thing as a hobby board where only high-level enthusiasts can engage.

>>62756144
arg is not enthusiasts, they are pure larperators. look at their obsession with chrome vs nitride. literally the only real difference is that chrome holds up better under full auto shooting, something that no one here has to ever worry about, yet they will constantly tell you that your nitride barrel is shit and you're ngmi if you don't have chrome. enthusiasts are the people shooting nra matches and going through hundreds of rounds a week for practice, but /arg/ will call them "boomers" or "gamers" and claim that their stainless match barrels are placebo. no one should listen to /arg/ about anything other than maybe how to clone a gun you saw in call of duty.

>>62756280
Or you could exercise an iota of self restraint, save for another 2-3 months, and get something decent instead

>>62756288
>50% of all of your discussion is going to come from people looking for advice on how to get started.

then they should google 'best starter ARs' and click on the first reddit thread that pops up. not a single hobby board on 4chan is for newbies, its for jaded vets.

>>62756378
Yeah, this is pure retardation on your part.

>>62756144
>no it hasn't, the advice you get just isn't what you want to hear
What, because I want arguments backed up with something more than hurr durr u poor? The advice you got on /k/ 10 years ago was better than what you get now, with the possible exception of night vision, and I already have my own opinions and more experience than most, so I have no desire to ask some circlejerk general for advice.
no one here wants you to buy basic bitch guns
A prebuilt 11.5" short barreled rifle isn't any less of a basic bitch gun because you paid $3.5k for it instead of $500-$1000.
>/arg/ especially is a general for AR 'super users', no one there wants to hear about your M&P or PSA or Ruger
And yet they care more about rollmarks than components. If they were really super users (or maybe super users who have ascended beyond the level of a super user) they would be advocating building your own AR with lists of components like people did here 10 years ago. Now you more often have people telling you to buy an cheapo assembled lower and an expensive upper vs buying everything yourself and actually learning how your rifle works. These things are barely harder to put together than legos, and the average /k/ommando can no longer do it; we're moving backwards.
>the goal of /arg/ is to discuss what is the BEST
*most expensive and thus the best for conspicuous consumption to signal disposable income while still too conservative a choice to actually be interesting.
>natually theres also the same shitposting you get in most generals added on
All generals are cancer, always have been. Even the gunsmithing/kit building threads will eventually go to shit since people keep putting "general" in the OP.

>>62756385
>what no you cant recommend reddit!! all the best info comes from 4chan! the site im currently complaining about being shit!

ok man

>>62756280
save a month and buy something that's worth a damn. Instant gratification retards like you will always be broke. PSA is for the retard who gets drunk and spends the remainder of his paycheck to satisfy his urges, never thinking of the future.

>>62756416
>Now you more often have people telling you to buy an cheapo assembled lower and an expensive upper vs buying everything yourself and actually learning how your rifle works

maybe thats because 99% of people don't want to actually build their rifle from scratch

>>62756416
Forgot a maymay arrow before
>no one here wants you to buy basic bitch guns
I was too busy laughing.

>>62755707
>When you pay $1500 for a $600 rifle because your dumbass thinks getting raped and gaped by your lgs inherently makes the rifle better,
And that's what we're talking about. The comment was specifically a DD $1500 rifle is mid tier. Because it is. Any $1500 complete rifle you can get is mid-tier.

This isn't some value judgement about anything beyond that, I don't care.
>>62756036
>Whatever your personal opinion is on AR tiers, it most definitely does not line up with real world use.
Real world use says better things are better. I never said you "need" to spend more money or you will die. You don't have to justify your entire worldview to me, it's totally fine dude.

Just don't try to kick and scream and gaslight everyone into believing you can't spend more money and get a better gun. That will continue to remain false.

>>62756431
yeah because they're fucking manginas too scared to turn a wrench

>>62756448
and anyone who cares enough to do it themselves will probably just read arfcom threads instead of making a thread on /k/ (after waiting 900 seconds to post)

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>>62756416
>And yet they care more about rollmarks than components.
Have you read the /arg/ pastebin? It pretty clearly is the opposite of what you claim. You're just mad some people have more money than you.
https://rentry.org/sa6c4m

>>62756479
>shitting on match barrels
useless

>>62756535
most people aren't match shooters and will get more out of longevity than accuracy. Most people can't shoot sub-MOA to begin with so splitting hairs over slightly subber-MOA doesn't do any good.

>>62756540
most people don't shoot full auto either so recommending chrome is pointless too.

>>62746014
I bought a $450 colt le6933 upper from the early 2000s and threw it on a PSA lower. With the optic and everything, it was like $800 bucks. I would argue it's better than 99% of complete rifles you can buy for $1000.

>>62756554
>most people don't shoot full auto either
It will still last longer

>>62756576
most people will never shoot out a barrel. I've never shot out a barrel.

>>62756594
>most people will never shoot out a barrel
And most people won't ever get good enough to notice the difference in accuracy between whatever you like and whatever I like. If we play the "nothing matters" game, then nothing matters.

>>62756431
I thought /arg/ were super users? Now doing something I figured out when I was 20 or something is too intimidating for them?

>>62756479
That's fairly new, and from the changelog it looks like it has seen a bunch of modification in the last year or so. I haven't been to /arg/ in quite a while, I just regret that their shitposty mentality leaked into the rest of the /k/, and a moderately good ARs for Dummies guide doesn't make up for that.

>>62756628
>is too intimidating for them?
Most people in /arg/ have built their own rifles though. What they're not doing is handholding every new person that comes in through the process when they're too retarded to go to youtube and search "how to build an AR-15"

To this day I regret not buying a MR762 my local gun store had so I could post it next to my SCAR and get the
>lol u poor
turd burglars to shut up. I guess I could still get one, but I don't really need another .308 and COVID might have fucked their prices worse than the SCAR.

>>62756621
so we are in agreement that you might as well just get a cheap nitride barrel then

>>62756662
Depends entirely on budget, if you're focused most on saving money, yes.

>>62756683
what else would you base it on? we have already agreed that accuracy and full auto performance don't matter.

>>62756869
Durability, profile, gas port size
>but I don't "need" better
then don't buy better, that's fine.

>>62747178
Nigga, you think I'm gonna waste money on yo fancy ass melanin barrel?

>>62756881
explain how any common nitride barrel isn't meeting those standards

>>62756939
Depends on the barrel. You can find a nitride barrel that does, and you can find plenty that are instead gaped to run steel case nobody buys anymore, with a government profile, and a poor heat treatment caused by a poorly done nitride process.

>>62746014
A PA-15 is a great rifle for learning how to maintain and customize an AR-15 rifle. You upgrade the trigger, get a better BCG, etc and the temptation for a BCM upper will grow too great espectially when they can be had for the cost of another PA-15 anyways.

>>62756954
ok but explain how some ba or faxon barrel has these problems. we are talking about real barrels here not ones you imagined to justify your chf obsession.

>>62756984
>ok but explain how some ba or faxon barrel has these problems.
I just told you. They have all the issues I listed. If you get one of their higher end barrels, you're spending $200 on a nitride barrel and I think you've lost the plot. I'd rather have a Centurion CHF barrel at that point for only a little bit more. I especially like the gas port indexing they do adapted from the way the HK416 does things, it's a good idea.
>but I don't want that!
Ok that's fine, it's your gun not my problem

Is Windham Weaponry any good? Planning on making a 20 inch build, using their upper and a psa a2 rifle lower

https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/product/ur20gvta4b/

>>62746014
Explain in technical terms why a nissan versa is a bad rifle vs a bugatti chiron

Only thing i heard is the engines suck but what does that mean exactly?

>>62757105
windham are adequate. not bottom of the barrel psa but not anything super nice.
its a normal ar

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>>62757041
what is wrong with this barrel?
>I can't mag dump garbage with a light profile
real problems only please

>>62757209
>0.081" gas port on a mid length
no thanks

>>62746014
Every single part is worse. THere you go retard

>>62757224
doesn't matter because everyone should be using adjustable gas

>>62757281
No thanks, I hate adjustable gas blocks after having many fail. I'll stick with the thing that just always works and get a barrel that works for me

>>62756378
Fucking this. 4chan is for shitposting and saving cute anime girls to my folder. I don't come here to hold a college kid's hand through the gun buying process.

>>62757285
so what do you do when you screw your can onto your barrel? do you just deal with being overgassed? or do you intentionally buy an undergassed barrel so it works correctly with your can?

>>62757323
My SR-15 handles shooting suppressed or unsuppressed well. So I guess I'm just dealing with it being overgassed if you want to put it that way.

>>62757105
They are old literally Bushmaster before they got bought up and moved to NY. Perfectly adequate.

>>62754614
How did you get this picture of me

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>>62760999
checked

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>>62746429
>>62746493
>moved the goal posts
>SS barrel
>DLC bolt
>better than mil spec
wew

>>62746014
Why buy a Tacoma when u can assemble and register your own kit car with the parts you want!?!?!

>>62746128
why not just buy something good the first time?

>>62763689
Learning experience

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>>62751327
You can tell by the chrome on bolt carrier face, dimensions, what it's made from, and the bolts used to hold the gas key on.

>>62755581
SOL's bolt is made by Microbest

>>62747449
Happens all the time. Look a the comments on their products. They should be assembling the gun with a midwest URR then using a fixture to drill the pins for the FSB that keeps the alignment perfect.

>>62748186
Midwest URR has a sail that goes into the charging handle slot which keeps the upper receiver from twisting. Once you slide the rod in, there is no side to side play at all except for pulling the rod straight back out of the barrel extension.

>>62767620
>You can tell by the chrome on bolt carrier face
No you can't.
>Dimensions
No you can't.
>what it's made from
dumbest so far, it's made from 8620 and c158 same as literally every milspec bcg

You want to know why SoL and BCM don't disclose who makes their bolts? Because they buy from whoever because there are numerous manufacturers that can make a milspec ass bcg and put their logo on it. It's going to be "whoever is cheapest right now".

>>62767683
Dumbass, their bcg is made by microbest. Sons, BCM, and PSA founding fathers of liberty are the same rebranded bcg. Primary Arms sells the same bcg under their in house Expo line.

I'm not going to reply to you anymore because you're a moron. PS, I bought two of these BCGs yesterday for $75 each.

>>62768285
Source: I made it up.

And five years ago you'd be claiming the same thing but that they're all toolcraft. I bet in five more years retards like you will move on to claiming they're all AO precision.

>>62768336
It has been discussed by School of the American Rifle and Sons of Liberty themselves, idiot.

>>62768358
Oh wow, that should be easy to prove then so go ahead and do so. Wait, I already know your response
>n-no
yeah that's what I thought.

>>62763683
If buying and assembling a kit car was as easy and quick as an AR you can be damn sure that would be the route I took.

>>62746052
>400 rounds, 3 issues

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>>62746355
I too once believed in the Toolcraft meme