Say something nice about it. These girls genuinely had a decent run, all things considered.
It was let down at so many levels its hard to assign blame to any individual element of it. Seaplane cruisers are cool
>>62785161It had the second-best carrier arm in the world prior to Midway
>>62785161they tried ig
>>62785161They were good target practice.
>>62785161Very fuckable
Kaga is back!
>>62785161The Zero is a legit aircraft
Japanese military autism is hilarious, I hope they gets back on their feet one day.
>>62785161Why do they have the Army flagThe Navy flag has the sun off-centre
great torpedoesgreat heavy cruisers and destroyerseverything else was competentthey just didn't have the industry
>>62785361>everything else was competentnonexistant convoy escortsin fact not even a proper convoy system at allYamato was a stupid ideaDamage Control was maybe the most inferior aspect to the Americans, at least until Industry became the biggest factor in the late warGenerally poor strategic thinking after the roaring successes of the first six months
>>62785361>great heavy cruisersno radar>and destroyersno ASW
>>62785369i don't consider merchant escort to be the job of a navy, but yes, they didn't do it in comparison to some others. it didn't really affect the outcome at all.merchants should escort themselves with their own warships.
>>62785361>great heavy cruisersthe US and UK could have built better ones if they cheated too, anon
>>62785161They helped the Russian's sink what was left of the Baltic Fleet.It was for the best anyway, stopped the suffering
>>62785410?
>>62785393>I don't consider merchant escort to be the job of a navyIt's a principle duty if your shipping is under attack from another Navy. You could argue the entire German was Navy built around attacking merchant vessels so why not protect them with a Navy?
>>62785361>everything else was competentHahaha
>>62785393>i don't consider merchant escort to be the job of a navyHow is it not? Especially if you're a fucking island nation dependent on food imports Britain would've been outright defeated in both wars without merchant escorts
>>62785161Their naval aviation was obviously the best or second best in the world in 1941-42>t. British
>>62785393read your Mahan, dipshitit's the raison d'etre of a fucking navy, especially for an island nation
>>62785490Had they been fighting any other navy than the USN at the time, they'd be pretty ok.
>>62785161I'm unable to comment on either their effectiveness or lack of, but I think the pagoda masts are pretty cool looking.They had some nice heavy cruisers too, specifically the Furutaka and Myoko (picrel), the superstructure is very sexy
>>62785220Honestly I'd say it was the first. The Kidou Butai pioneered so much doctrinally and was a hell of a lot more experienced than the Americans were. They were just shit at retaining it once 1st and 2nd CarDiv were all sunk at Midway.
>>62786007They spent half the time fighting the Jap Army ffs
>>62787003>experienceyou're right, taking that into account, they had the best carrier arm in the world, prior to MidwayI forgot what utter greenhorns the Americans were until then
>>62785415The IJN didn't spring into being on December 7th 1941
>>62785393>I don't consider merchant escort to be the job of a navy>merchants should escort themselves with their own warshisHuh??? I don't think any nations have allowed anyone in their borders besides their own military to construct, train on, and operate modern warships since the days of the East India Company. Pretty much every navy in modern history has had shipping protection as a primary role, keeping global trade running smoothly is basically the #1 job of the USN at this point. What makes you think you know better than every government and naval leader on Earth?
>>62785161Yamato, while deeply flawed in multiple ways, was a remarkable achievement of engineering for the nation and ultimately future proofed herself by sheer size as a Battleship. During design they could not have known that the Battleship would become less tactically versatile or be outstripped in the role of "main firepower dealer" by carriers.
>>62788387Certainly was at the time. They didn't have to deal with the limitations of the panama canal either so they built it as big as they wanted. Shame it was too high value so she didn't get much use as a warship and was more a propaganda piece.
my wife Zuikaku
>>62787003Neither side had much experience with carrier battles before Midway
>>62785161>These girls genuinely had a decent run, all things considered.No. They didn't.The entire IJN was designed and built around a battle that only ever happened or was relevant in 1905.Cope.Seethe.Dilate.
>>62785161The Zero is a really great fighter that unfairly gets shit on because it was put up against even greater fighters
>>62790513And the only reason those greater fighters were even built was as a direct response to the Zero.
>>62789317Ok chang
Best looking ships. Either beautiful lines like Yamato, Atago or charmingly ugly like Fuso
>>62785161better in 41 than china today
For me, it's Atago.>tfw same birthday
>>62788827but IJN pilots had more training and actual combat experience, which is immense
>>62785220It was the best, no contest.more carriers and significantly better carrier doctrine, aviators and aircraft.
>>62785369escorts were like the biggest output of military ships for the IJN during the war.
>>62785161Pagoda masts look cool, very hive like, very Asian. On the downside being on one of those battleships must have been unpleasant, imagine sharing such confined spaces with 3000 Japanese peasants (urbanisation in Japan was below 20% in the 1920s, so most enlisted men were born and bred bumpkins from very poor backgrounds).
>>62791196>more carriersactually, not>significantly better carrier doctrinethe main difference was merely grouping the Kido Butai together instead of independent task forces like the USN and RN did>aviatorsthis is very true, as I said: >>62787308>and aircraftI prefer the Wildcat to the Zero (more balanced) and the Dauntless was arguably the best carrier strike plane of the war
>>62791207for lack of ability to build anything elseand dwarfed by USN and RN production even then
>>62785161Genuinely good at night fighting. Seriously, most of the night actions went very well for Japan until the US made radar standard on ships.
>>62785161As an institution it's fucked in the head by the face culture, most officers in the ijn knew, even if not admitted, that starting a war with the US was a losing battle, they knew the difference in industrial output, and yet no one was man enough to say aloud that what they were planning was madness.By the end of the war they were doing the naval equivalent of banzai charges, even if there was no strategic gain, even if it would just result in more deaths, they still throw themselves like eggs at a stone wall, because "it was what was expected of them". Also the most dumb doctrinal usage of submarines to date. But, yes, some of their ship designs are pure sexo, they're just cool looking.
>>62785393Most navies were created as a deterrent for pirates or other navies from messing with the merchant fleet of a nation, why in God's name you wouldn't consider it the job of a navy?
Any good memoirs from the Navy? I'm sure there are plenty of pilots but what about sailors or marines?
>>62791196Significantly worse logistical support. Fucked in the water against the final boss desu
>>62791462that was the USN finding its legsthe bongs actually had better night fighting training, because they expected to fight in the North Sea. they were more practised in the use of radar, and their Albacores could bomb in the dark. Bismarck was harassed throughout the night, and could have been attacked if only the battleships were in range.>>62791762recently I read picrelhe mostly did coastal escort work but his destroyer was the first to engage Scharnhorst and he is possibly the only gunnery officer whose men fired on a battleship with a machine-gunvery well-writtenSignals From The Falklands is also very good, they're a collection of short memoirs written by various British vets including RN submarine officers
>>62791792>the bongs actually had better night fighting training, because they expected to fight in the North Sea[Citation Needed]Most RN officers who fought against the Japanese freely admitted to their superiority in night fighting. Pic rel is a great and enlightening read on how far ahead of the curve the Japanese were at night fighting, no one knew or anticipated this; all the allies were largely complacent and thought Japanese night fighting capability was inferior. It was written by an RN officer aboard the Canberra, which was put in a sinking condition after less than 2 minutes of gunfire from Mikawa's force. Savo Island came as a huge shock. There was still a pocket of elitists in ABDACOM who thought it was a fluke, but this also got wrinkled out as the Guadalcanal campaign progressed with tenuous results against the Japanese in night actions. I honestly think the RN and ze Germans & Italians at Europe were engaging in the equivalent of child's play at naval warfare compared to what was happening in the pacific.
>>62791762This one is great
>>62791867>[Citation Needed]Admirals Cunningham and Somerville, and later on FraserSomerville never managed to engage the Japanese (probably for the best) but his plan was for a night carrier action because the IJN didn't fly at night and he had superior radar>freely admitted to their superiority in night fighting.the bongs are always self-castigating to a fault, you have to keep that in mindthey'll never big up their own strengths, and will play up their "honourable" opponentsthe epitome of traditional British reserve and understatement>I honestly think the RN and ze Germans & Italians at Europe were engaging in the equivalent of child's play at naval warfare compared to what was happening in the pacificif you look at the actual tactics involved, it was right at the cutting edge. Bismarck, Cape Matapan and North Cape were all radar-enabled engagements.by 1944 the US however was far ahead in carrier warfare because of the developments from Pearl onwards. that's the nature of conflict: it drives innovation and development like nothing else.the American narrative has dominated WW2 media and the current crop of British are complete cucks so all the innovations that the British came up with in land, air and sea are going to be overlooked, that's just the way it is.
>>62791867ABDACOM didnt exist anymore by the time of Savo island. And probably would not have dismissed Japanese capabilities by that time anyways because literally all they did was preside over constant defeats.
>>62788436The result of any battleship really though.Most nations are extremely reluctant to use their Battleships in a fight due to it being a huge risk of so much time, effort and expense, and only put them out there if they had to.It's also why Carriers became so popular, as they meant you could launch the same artillery payload, from further away, and without risking your ship to direct fire so much.
>>62785393>i don't consider merchant escort to be the job of a navylollmao even
When you think about it Japan's modernization was pretty damn impressive to go from where they were in 1841 to even amounting to a speed bump for the USN
>>62785161Why would Zeroes fly at night in bad weather? Also, the cruiser is making a wake, suggesting high speeds. Yet the much slower submarine appears to be in formation and on the surface too for some reason.
Scouting aircraft scattered out on cruisers, a severe blunder. Torpedoes highly susceptible to catastrophic battle damage. Inferior AAA. Damage control poor. CVN's overly vulnerable to fire. Lots of good things, too. A mixed bag.
>>62792255The IJN hunted the bongs like rats, but the cowardly rats scattered and fled the battlefield, to Madagascar, or maybe it was Bermuda, can't remember.
>>62791229Living in a city doesn't make you superior to peasants,faggot.>>62791902Great book,i'm trying to find that torpedo manual Hara wrote.>>62785361>everything else was competentNot really.As well as the other stuff mentioned in this thread,their usage of submarines was very retarded.Using them solely for engaging warships instead of attacking merchants as well was very stupid.
>>62794604>it's him againcope
>>62785161Their suicidal dedication led to them carrying out hopeless missions that no other sensible navy would ever consider, which led to some kino engagements like the Battles of Leyte Gulf and the Phillipine Sea, as well as Operation Ten-Go.Oh and thinking of Ten-Go their ships and operations had some fun names>>62791902>as seen through Japanese eyesHow the fuck do you make a book in widescreen?
>>62785161Considering the IJN conquered the largest empire the world had seen since Xerxes, I'd say they did pretty fucking well
>>62792255>because the IJN didn't fly at night and he had superior radarThat's not true, the IJN operated air craft at night. In fact, in the admission of RN officers in the pacific, they mastered this particular art more than any other navy, and weren't eclipsed in night time aircraft operations for the rest of the war. The USN also observed the good coordination of night attacks made by IJN aircraft at night as well. In Savo Island Mikawa's spotters dropped flares and moved to the rendezvous point with hair accuracy. >the bongs are always self-castigating to a fault, you have to keep that in mind>they'll never big up their own strengths, and will play up their "honourable" opponents>the epitome of traditional British reserve and understatementThe bongs are always overinflating themselves, actually. But they got humbled before the Americans by the Japanese, so when the Americans entered the war they were condescending towards the Australians and Bongs.>by 1944 the US however was far ahead in carrier warfare because of the developments from Pearl onwards. that's the nature of conflict: it drives innovation and development like nothing elseI agree that the American narrative dominated, though ultimately it was the Bongs who discovered magnetron cavity (and surprisingly, the Japanese too, independent of British research, but nothing big came of it). I still don't view engagements like the ones with Bismarck. At the Denmark strait two battleships closed to 14,100 meters and not a single hit was made on the Bismarck. Hood was sunk from a single lucky hit and Prince of Wales went off with a minor injury. This was a battleship surface engagement at mostly good visibility that was, by Pacific standards, orchestrated in torpedo range.
>>62796225>the IJN operated air craft at night>In Savo Island Mikawa's spotters dropped flaresso did the Britishbut did the IJN make night-time bombing and torpedo attacks?so far as I know, only British carrier aircraft made night-time bombing and torpedo attacks, so it is they who>mastered this particular art more than any other navy, and weren't eclipsed in night time aircraft operations>The bongs are always overinflating themselves, actuallyClearly not.
