>>62868896
You gotta
fuck ya
mudda

>>62868896
Back to /pol, brown boy.
Viva Italia

>>62868896
Don't live outside Piemonte retard

>>62869028
???
Rome and part of Florence have a little problem, but you are ridiculous

>>62869125
call the jew loving president and have her stop crime

>>62868896
Go to a gun store and buy one.

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>>62868896
I cooka da meatball

>>62868896
you follow the retarded and length and expensive procedure, which in itself isn't even that hostile to you owning guns, there not many factors that can preclude you, it's just long and retarded and shouldn't exist, then after you have your pile of shit papers and bollini pagati and dio porco vari you give it to the terroni di merda dei carabinieri and wait 5 months until they call you to say it's ready for pickup

alternatively if you're a bit inside of that world/know someone who is you can buy one off da streez

>>62869028
north Italy is full of disgusting nuggets and arabs, on top of that any restriction on gun ownership is unjust and must be opposed, a sentiment you wont find anywhere in the cucked Italian population

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>>62868896
it's easy to get a weapon in italy but to use one on a person is basically impossible unless they are about to kill you. no, robbing you at gunpoin is not good enough, you need a real threat

>>62868896
buy one in predappio. have a bruschetta while you're there, it's amazing

>>62868896
every national shooting range has posters with every step of the process on how to get a license. It's pisseasy. (got my license in 1 month)
>Italian chavs/thugs are an actual problem here
Bullshit, outside of the metro in Milan and Naples our country has extremely low crimes and they've been on the decline for the past 20 years. A group of maranza laughing at you when you pass by aren't gonna do shit.
>>62870333
>robbing you at gunpoin is not good enough
it is, look at that jeweler somewhere in terronia that shot a gipsy or something like that, he didn't even have a real weapon and he got off scotts free for shooting him.

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>>62870382
I heard the salame is amazing there

>>62870333
the thing most self defense shooters get jailed for is shooting after the self defense part or in other words shooting at fleeing thieves.
You'd get booked for that anywhere in the world that has a functional police force

> Italy
> doing things legally

>>62870389
>Bullshit, outside of the metro in Milan and Naples our country has extremely low crimes and they've been on the decline for the past 20 years.
t.drug abuser nigger shilling italy as the best place ever
Piss off dumb faggot

>>62870969
if I were a junkie I would've never got the PDA. Niggers and other migrants will definetly become a problem but as of right now the only ones who cry about muh crime are literal basement dweller neets who never leave their own house and see their own country through the eyes of /pol/.

>>62870969
Jesus christ get out of /pol/ and look at the fucking data. The right has been fearmongering endlessly while reality was going the opposite direction: crime has been on a steady decline since the 90s. And before you start screeching, it's the same with the left and women killings: women homicides are statistically insignificant, but every time some asshole kills his gf/ex the "left" (with quotes because progressivism has replaced more important left shit like workers' rights) paints an apocalyptic picture.

Since this is /k/, and you're so into /pol/, ask yourself why the most openly right wing party to date since baldhead went upside down, after screeching about national security for years did absolutely jack shit to relax gun control laws once they got in charge.

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>>62868896
Find one of the secret weapons caches, and go wild. MANY such cases.

>>62871236
>did absolutely jack shit to relax gun control laws once they got in charge
They should also ask themselves why the right in this country despite larping about muh migrants they are the ones who made the laws that allowed the most shitskins to flood our country. (the answer is simple and it's to destroy wages and worker right, but both the left and rightwing electorate here is too dumb to notice that)

>>62868896
Fuck off nigger faggot

>>62870969
Nigger Amerilard detected. Opinion rejected

>>62872083
So you are basically saying you abuse coke daily lmao

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>>62869020
talians are brown

>>62868896
>Italian chavs/thugs are an actual problem here
they’re not
>i don't think pepper spray is gonna stop
ok retard
>one of these pot/alchol/coke abuser shitheads charging at you
????
there is literally no need to carry in italy

>>62870389
>look at that jeweler somewhere in terronia that shot a gipsy or something like that, he didn't even have a real weapon and he got off scotts free for shooting him.
you have to pray to god that you don't get jailed in the first place and wait the years of legal process there.
also even if you get absolved (after years of legal battle and money) you may still get fucked in the ass years later due to the families appealing to the legal system.
the guy you are talking about got 17 years and 750.000 euros in damages btw.
you CAN get away with it but unless the guy is shooting at you you will face years in legal sentences and fees.
>>62870403
in italy there is a concept called proportionality, this means that you can only respond with a force proportional to the aggression. if someone is robbing you at gunpoint you cannot shoot him (not that you can open carry in italy regardless) since you have a way to defuse the situation and there is no imminent danger

>>62873298
>if someone is robbing you at gunpoint you cannot shoot him (not that you can open carry in italy regardless) since you have a way to defuse the situation and there is no imminent danger
That is completely goddamn retarded - what other possible fucking option do you have to defuse the situation than killing him?
>No imminent danger
May the politician who ratified this law get mugged at gunpoint where their cronies cannot protect them so they'll develop some street smarts and empathy. You'd have to be delusional beyond competency or a complete and utter psychopath to disqualify being robbed at gunpoint as imminent danger.

>>62871417
what laws did they enact?

>>62873133
>there is literally no need to carry in italy
still you should

it's incredible how every time some thread about euro countries or euro guns comes up you get these faggots shilling for
>it's right to have gun licenses
>it's right to have gun control
>you don't need x gun right

and it shows how cucked the people here are, they're actually happy in their chains and want them to stay on

>>62873312
>That is completely goddamn retarded - what other possible fucking option do you have to defuse the situation than killing him?
idk what to tell if you ask me getting shot at is risk associeted with the "job" of a robber.
a guy got away with killing someone with a gun was during a robbery at his home, at night after shooting a warning shot at the robbers and killing them after they fired back. the guy also knew very well how to cover his ass legally, was exceptionally trained and the robber was a murderer.
on the plus gun laws are fairly lax for an euro country it's basically california

>>62873312
the absurd thing is that people here agree with that bullshit, the subject popped up multiple times with multiple people, both bc I talked about it and also spontaneously, I just threw it there and let them talk and heard their opinions, and I've never ever met anyone in my life that agreed that you should be allowed to have guns easily and carry, and even regarding self defence most people genuinely think that "you shouldn't fire at someone over something material, just give them the wallet" or retarded bullshit like "shoot them in the legs", that's the kind of cucks you're dealing with, so nothing will ever change because no one here gives a shit, not even gun owners

>>62869028
shoutout Piemonte Calcio, from a lifelong fan

>>62873367
and 99% of the time that a self defence shooting happens the guy who rightfully defended himself gets crucified, you will be sucked into the legal system which sucks so the trial will last years and years, therefore imposing huge monetary costs on you even if you're found not guilty, but most likely you will be found guilty because if someone breaks into your house at night and you shoot him that's considered excessive use of self defence, or if a store owner shoots a robber that will too be considered excessive, because the response, according to the law, must be proportional, aka you can only do to them what they did to you, which absolutely retarded, in the last years a law was created that says that if a break in happens after a certain late hour like 22, I dont remember the exact number, you'll be automatically considered "under extreme duress" bc you were chilling at home and it's dark so if you shoot the law should be more lenient with you due to your status of duress, even the fact that they needed such a workaround shows you the cuckedness of the country, I dont know of actual cases where this has been applied tho, I should look into it more

>>62873378
best calcio A squad

>>62873354
>still you should
why?

>>62874263
Americans cannot comprehend cultural differences.

>>62873298
>>62873358
>>62873367
>>62873397
So many words to just end up repeating right wing propaganda constructed on cherrypicking, malignant misunderstanding, and fearmongering.

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>>62873298
>the guy you are talking about got 17 years and 750.000 euros in damages btw.
no, we're talking about 2 different people, the one that got the 17 years (roggerio) is the one that chased the thieves and executed them, he deserves to rot in jail.
I'm talking about the guy who shot and killed 2 in Ercolano in 2015
>if someone is robbing you at gunpoint you cannot shoot him
Jesus christ you're too retarded to be argued with. Proportionality of defense means you cannot kill someone who is running away after trying to steal your TV, if someone is robbing you at gunpoint you can kill them no problem and all the sentences we had prove it.
>>62874554
I wouldn't be surprised by the way he argues if he's that retard we had in the /euk/ generals who complained about not being able to get guns because he was on crazy pills and lied about it to the doctor

>>62874661
>who complained about not being able to get guns because he was on crazy pills and lied about it to the doctor
lmao I remember him

>>62874458
there's a bigger cultural shift between oregon and montana than between italy and germany

>>62874682
10/10 ragebait. Kudos to you.

>>62874661
since you're the one who proved of being italian and owning guns ITT, what do you think about >>62873354
>it's right to have gun licenses
>it's right to have gun control
>you don't need x gun right

>>62868896
>pot/alchol/coke abuser shitheads charging at you
seriously, where?
what is your plan once you get a loicense, hanging alone on a saturday night outside a club for brown people until some group of drunks harass you so that you can brandish you pistol at their face and then be banned from the premises and likely losing your gun rights forever?
I mean, back in the days when I was less than sane student in Bologna I repeatedly tried to get robbed by the worst drug addicts in the street at night, I went alone at the parties of the squatting anarchists tearing up their antifa stickers and things like that and never once I was in danger enough to justify the use of a weapon.

>>62874698
>it's right to have gun licenses
nope, everybody should be able to own guns without the government knowing.
>it's right to have gun control
nope, gun control is the antechamber of fascism/communism/authoritarianism
>you don't need x gun right
you do need them even in the most peaceful of society according to my ideals

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Italy bros can anyone tell me if i would have to register a plasma gun?

>>62874819
only if over 1000W

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>>62874698
not him but I’m Italian and I do own guns
>it’s right to have gun license
correct
>it’s right to have gun control
correct
>you don’t need x gun right
correct

>>62875081
thanks for proving that you yuros are faggots

>>62874708
>seriously, where?
OP here. Ok you asked you for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFI6Nz9dQOM

>>62875357
ok so a terrone got caught with 400kg of hashish and that invalidates all the ISTAT data that shows that crime in italy is low and it has kept lowering in the last 20 years?

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>>62875261
fuck off
getting a gun is laughably easy as is, not being able to get one with the current laws means you shouldn’t be entrusted with one at all

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>>62875378
Do you also support free speech (not that we have it in Italy) being locked away and available only to people with a free speech license?

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>>62875376
>ok so a terrone got caught with 400kg of hashish and that invalidates all the ISTAT data that shows that crime in italy is low and it has kept lowering in the last 20 years?

>>62875391
>no argument
I accept your defeat

>>62875388
>it’s the wacko that couldn’t get a permit due to schizo pills
holy reddit

>>62875397
>terrone got caught with 400kg of hashish
>all the ISTAT data that shows that crime in italy is low and it has kept lowering in the last 20 years
Your argument makes no sense cherrypicking faggot

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>>62875402
I'm >>62874661
I simply believe gun rights are human rights. I will follow our laws to the T, it doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

>>62875402
qrd?
i enjoy laughing at tards

>>62875429
>complete nutjobs should have the chance to kill very easily
no

>>62875433
What stops a nutjob from taking a screwdriver and stabbing 30+ kids like they do in China every year? Or mowing over people in a car like they did a few days ago? The mental evaluation test to see if you're a schizo is already a farce for both the PDA and the driving license as the doctor simply asks you if you need to use glasses to see far away and the doctor themselves say those tests are useless as it's impossible to find schizos unless they already had precedents.
Limiting core human rights for a false sense of security leaves you with no rights and no safety, if that's okay with you then be happy as the majority of cattle here in Europe agrees with you.

imagine thinking post EU italy is dangerous. i swear zoomers wouldn't have lasted a week during the years of lead.

>>62875453
NTA but
>they're going to kill anyway, might as well make it easier for them
You are a fucking retard if you think those who have demonstrated being unfit to handle the responsibility of a weapon, by being mentally ill or committing a violent crime, should have access to weapons anyway.

>>62875476
If you're a CONVICTED criminal of a violent crime or an actual mentally ill (autism, ADHD etc not included) individual then I'm okay with limiting them from owning weapons, but I absolutely see no reason as to why a normal citizen shouldn't be able to go and buy a gun from a store like they do in the US.
>they're going to kill anyway, might as well make it easier for them
Then why don't we ban the sale of screwdrivers unless you have a screwdriver license? After all right now there are plenty of nutjobs around who can buy screwdrivers, knives, etc without even having to show an ID. We are literally making it easier for them to go out an kill. Wait a second tho, why is it we never had a mass stabbing by a nutjob here in Italy with dozens of killed like in China, where they take gun control very seriously?

>>62875423
Do you know how to count numbers? Between 10 and 5, which one is the smaller number?

>>62868896
if you have that much trouble getting one, there's no fucking way you aren't getting a max sentence for popping someone

>>62875357
Wow, someone had some non-lethal not-really-addictive substance at home, that's basically a war zone!
Tell the police you need a gun license because you want to shoot potheads in the streets and tell us what happens.

>>62875453
>>62875423
If anyone fails the mental evaluation test it means they are actually crazy.
I have been off antipsychotics for three years and took Xanax until a few months before the medical exam and still passed it no prob.

>>62874661
>chased the thieves and executed them
did the right thing faggot

>>62875388
>not that we have it in Italy
explain


fuck Italians are so cucked that even the ones who use 4chan, that should be a filter, still support gun control

fuck this cunt

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>>62878465
>explain
getting sued for defamation, hate speech, incitement of racial discrimination etc. is extremely easy in Italy (look at picrel). We're absolutely nowhere near the level of the UK, as most of the time these cases get dropped, but legally speaking the laws that would allow us to reach that level of censorship are already there. Free speech is not a gradient either you have it or you don't.

>>62878718
free speech is not about being able to say what you want without ripercussions, but being able to say what you want without being jailed or killed. in this case, you get sued. if you really think freedom of speech allows you to berate or insult whomever you want scot free then you're a naive idiot.

>>62870333
Then-a you remind-a them-a that-a omerta means-a they're gay-a if they-a snitch-a on-a you.

>>62878721
>It's called Freedom of Speech, not Freedom From Being Destroyed by the Rich, bigot!

>>62878721
I don't expect to be able to call fake bomb threats without repercussions, but do you seriously think a guy being visited by the DIGOS at home for shouting "long live an antifascist italy" or getting sued and convicted of a fine for saying they should just send all migrants back where they came from is "having free speech"?

>>62878721
>say mean thing about politician or private/public figure (ex: Renzi, Segre, Salvini, Schlein who all have very active legal departments)
>get sued because it's pisseasy to sue someone over a "perceived insult" or "defamation"
>have to pay 15k euros in damages to millionare politicians
very wow, much speech, many free! I'm sure people will feel free to voice their concerns and express themselves freely at any bracket of society.

>>62878756
>getting sued and convicted of a fine for saying they should just send all migrants back where they came from is "having free speech"?
sauce
>digos thing
sauce

>>62878770
so that's the famous querela thing in often hear about? like the zoo of 105 getting sued with these querelas for naming someone famous in a joke?

>>62878773
>sauce1
Legge 25 giugno 1993, n. 205
>sauce
the one who shouted that at the Scala, or the one who said fuck israel at an university in venice from a balcony. there are a shitload of examples

>>62878718
>paint historical event
>get thrown in jail
Grim

>>62875506
>ummmm akschually killing someone with a screwdriver is as easy as it is with a gun
actual retard

>>62879308
it's factually easier than with a gun.

>>62870382
God stop talking about food, I fucking love expensive imported italian charcuterie.

>>62868896
1. Don't be a retard
2. Do some basic research before making retarded retard threads on, which is really not hard if you're not a fucking retard (see 1.)
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

>>62870389
You're probably talking to an american. We have niggers. Foreigners think we're using that for black people... no not really. It just means "black of character". Most of our black people are fine and just want to get along. But Europe does not have niggers, you have "browns", which did not develop a potent viral subculture of shit living and acting. They're just from shitholes, and may be able to learn.

>>62879360
thanks for proving my point yet again

>>62868896
SBORRO on your laughable problemini da ritardato

>>62879426
>Most of our black people are fine and just want to get along. But Europe does not have niggers, you have "browns", which did not develop a potent viral subculture of shit living and acting
north Africans are scum
niggers in general must not be allowed into the country for multiple reasons

the phenomenon of immigration to Italy from Africa, both north and sub saharan, is detrimental to the country, and will give birth to other detrimental things in the future, for a multitude of reasons

>>62872940
Shalom kike

>>62873354
>>62878465
You give guns to trannies. Who are you kidding?

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>>62879435

>>62868896
I think op is talking about a pistol for concealed carrying. These retards posting pics of their bigass bolt guns lmao you gonna carry that around with you running errands?

>>62880034
sicilians are niggers

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>>62870333
>no, robbing you at gunpoin is not good enough, you need a real threat
>being a hair's length away from getting your brains plasted against the sidewalk isn't a "real threat"
picrel rolling in his grave btw

>>62881458
Italy is a cucked country, the thing is that most "people" would sincerely agree with that statement

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>>62870333
>robbing you at gunpoin is not good enough
stop browsing /pol/

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OP here
>>62880314
>I think op is talking about a pistol for concealed carrying.
That was what i wanted to buy but idk anymore, this thread made me change my mind. Pic related sounds like a more plausible option since it is less dangerous than pistols or any other gun
>>62882870
>Italy is a cucked country, the thing is that most "people" would sincerely agree with that statement
yes and i hate living in it

>>62883789
who tf talks about Italian self defence laws on pol?

anyway 99% of the population cant even find themselves in the situation to be acquitted of a self defence shooting since you cant CC so you'd be automatically convicted for carrying illegally + likely charged for homicide because yes some guys are found not guilty as in your pic but alot of other times they didnt, and on top of that it takes ages to even get to that point so in the meantime you'll be shitting out money for legal expenses and be in the limbo and the niggers you shit definitely wont reimburse your expenses if you win

>>62884442
like the conception of gun and self defence rights in Italy, both in the law but just among the populations opinions, is utter shit, the us, whose values have been and are still being corrupted to this day, still is orders of magnitude above.
I remember that food delivery guy shooting someone at the shopping mall because he for a stupid prank video he got close to him and put his phone next to his ear to play some sounds 2 times, the guy told him to get away and then shit him once and he only got 6 months lol.

>>62870333
how is someone holding you at gunpoint not mortal danger?

>>62873298
>called proportionality
non-lawfags get this wrong all the time
proportionality isn't about what the guy is using to threaten you but in the degree of harm inflicted.
If someone says he's going to teach you a lesson and throws fists you can't just shoot him in the head. you could still shoot him in a leg or any other place you'd have reason to assume isn't straight up lethal.
If someone comes at you saying he's going to choke you out, rape you body and smash your head into a paste, plug him right between the eyes.
It was only the two of you and there aren't any witnesses, how much harm would a reasonable person expect?
the penalty of using a gun in self defense comes in with judges and juries thinking guns are more lethal than they are. If you have a anyway capable defense you can address that with expert testimony.
So someone holds you up a knife point.
Is it reasonable to assume that they might try and stab you? yes
If stabbed what kind of harm would that do, could/would it be be lethal? If so you'r free to put one right between his eyes if not nail him in the leg or chest (try to avoid the heart tough).
The second problem is that the legal system won't just take your word for it. Because why would they? and so you'll have legal costs. But guess what the same happens in the US. Zimmer man only got off after sinking tons of money into his legal defense. And the head injuries swaying the jury into believing that he was fearing for his life when he blasted little skiddles.

>>62883789
>Article is from 2022
>Incident happened in 2015
Why did this take so long?

>>62885177
The judiciary system is severely understaffed and even more severely overworked. Doesn't help that the law system is a fucking bizantine mess, especially because politicians have no incentive to fix things but to make new things even when it comes to laws. Also you're technically innocent until the third degree of judgment, which isn't wrong per-se, but you can see how it increases load on the system.
I could go on with the historical reasons that brought us to this point, but you get the idea.

>>62885177
our bureaucracy is shit and run by terroni

>>62884896
You should add that our law doesn't specify any examples and simply state that "the defence must be proportional to the offence", it doesn't explain anything else and each time the judge interprets it how he sees fit.
99% of the time it's a simple look of "were you in mortal danger or did you have probable cause to think your life was going to be in imminent danger?" if so then if you killed someone then you're okay. And with the latest revision of our self defence laws our judges can now take into consideration the mental state of the victim at the time of the habbening, so technically even if you fuck up and shoot someone fleeing there is a non zero chance that you could get off lightly.
the biggest issue is that 99% of the time we hear about self defence shootings here in italy it's some old fuck who thinks he can chase the thieves down in a car, make them pull over, shoot both and then try to claim self defence. Which is retarded.

>>62884331
>Pic related
illegal in italy. If you want something for self defence you're better off buying a pepper spray. Not that you'll ever need it unless you live in naples.

>>62880989
Imagine believing goyslop movies made by kikes. You Americans are stupid and so fucking ignorant.

>>62885608
cope

>>62885324
>>62885334
Wonderful to learn given I am in the process of getting Italian citizenship

>>62885884
Fuck off we're full

>>62875081
yeah you just showed that you are all cum guzzling subhumans. Stay in your shitty country.

>>62875388
The person you are responding to is literally too stupid to comprehend the question you just asked him.

>>62886234
lol I don't want to live there. I want it as an easy pass to Europe. Plus given everything else said in this thread I don't want to live in that shithole anyhow.

>>62871285
if only there were mystical arms and even vehicle caches with millions of every weapon and war machine imagineable that magically appeared in times of need in every gun grabber country ready to arm the populace

>>62885359
>99% of the time we hear about self defence shootings here in italy it's some old fuck who thinks he can chase the thieves down in a car, make them pull over, shoot both and then try to claim self defense.
you could still get away with this. You'd have to argue and convince the judge that there was a constant state of fear for your life and that the cold blooded murder of those guys still in their part was also in self defense.
You'd have to convince the judge/jury that the thieves made treats to the shooters and/or other persons so credible and immediate that you'd still have to hunt them down. "something like fuck you old man we are going to your daughters place at 15 bolenese street to rape and kill her."
But what they always go for it "I wanted to arrest them because crime bad. So I chased after them and then when I got them stoped one guy reached into a pocket (I couldn't have seen from where I stood) so I let them have it (into the back of their heads at point blank)"
the least you could do is try and plead temporary insanity "x effect my client to the point that he lost all control, went into auto pilot and has no recollection of the events. He is deeply sorry jada jada jada " the problem with the temporary insanity plea is that getting into your car to chase them is a very rational thing to do. The more emotionally driven would be to run after them and shoot at them as they are driving off.
honestly if you are looking into a good piece to defend your home get a good lawyer at the same time. He'l cost you a lot more than your gun but not getting thrown in jail has it's own merits.

>>62888642
>you could still get away with this. You'd have to argue and convince the judge that there was a constant state of fear for your life and that the cold blooded murder of those guys still in their part was also in self defense.
no.

>>62886319
That's better, we don't want americans here.

>>62888692
it's a very, very long shot
But there are possible scenarios where giving chase is part of legal self defense. Self defense doesn't just apply to you but other people too.
So a credible treat made against other people that can't be averted by other means would be a perfectly legal case of self defense.
for instance a guy comes up to your door pulls a gun on you asks if you are your neighbour. He leaves once you prove you aren't your neighbour but he is going over there right now. You haven't the time to wait for the cops, your neighbour is going to get killed.
So you get your gun and chase after the guy.
Or in an the hypothetical case I gave it's 4 Am your daughter is a heavy sleeper you aren't going to wake her up by calling and the place is only 2 minutes away no way the cops are getting there in time. So you chasing and shooting those men is defending an other person in lethal danger and perfectly legal (good luck proving it in court tough)

>>62889054
>possible scenarios where giving chase is part of legal self defense.
show me one, even in the US.

>>62868896
I ChatGPTed the difference between France and Italy to get a B's firearm.

Long story short, it may seem much, but in fact, it just require to be member of a shooting club. Also the medical exam in Italy seem to be a bit more serious that in France which is more a guarantee of non-responsability.

Same redtape, same security requirement (a safe), same duration of license, and apparently a bit less more allowed guns in Italy per licensed individual.

Honestly, not that bad, in 6 months you may be a definitive license holder. Remember you will never (legally) have the same freedom that the U.S. have when it comes to guns, not even California have it.

>>62889234
>filter tough thousands of court cases to get one for me
I know a case that got seponated.
two bouncer hears a couple of guys talking about how they are going to jump a guy.
The leave while they wait for the cops, go after them and end up knocking out some teeth.
cops get involved a CV get written up. Standard assault ect. But the charges get dropped once my friend pleads self defense. As they where going to attack someone, the cops wouldn't have been able to help and it was all proportional (enough violence to stop a further attack but nothing more).
if you want I can get you an anonymised police docket from my friend, it'l be in Dutch legalese tough so idk how much good it'l do you.
>there wasn't a gun or a dead guy
the principles behind self defense laws are the same.
The question is there a hypothetical where giving chase can still result in self defense.
heck now that I think about it, the Zimmer man case in the US.
Zimmer man sees tyrone, calls cops. Cops tell him to wait, he chases tyrone. Tyrone chimps and Zimmerman get acquitted for shooting tyrone.
>but there wasn't a prior confrontation
same issue tough, Zimmerman chased and thus placed himself in the situation where he'd have to defend himself

>>62889317
>I know you asked me to find evidence that this is water, but I found orange juice, it's the same right?
no.

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>>62889348
>ask for lawful use of self defense after a chase
>provide lawful use of self defense after a chase
>but annon I don't understand legal concepts or logical reasoning

>>62889371
>larp about chasing someone and killing them being recognized as self defence
>ask for an example
>muh mate threw a punch at someone!
damn noguns

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>>62889533
my legal counsel to you is to represent yourself at any cost
you are to smart for us lawyers and we'd just drag you down

>>62886313
>Stay in your shitty country.
where else should I go? I’m living in what I consider paradise

>>62889279
>same security requirement (a safe)
not a requirement in italy

>>62889583
>no arguments
Ah be di sicuro, between representing myself and letting an italian """lawyer""" defend me I'm almost better off leaving my defense to a coin toss.

>>62889317
you yuro retards don't even understand the concept of castle doctrine and no duty to retreat. Zimmerman would've been convicted if it had happened in anothe state, let alone in a yuropoor country.

>>62889623
It is though

>>62889662
the duty to retreat is an other issue than castle doctrine or stand your ground laws
the question at hand is if following would automatically ruin a self defense plea
>>62889639
there is no argument to be had with those that don't understand it.
A gun and someone getting shot doesn't change the law or underlying reasoning.
It is a person that went after someone that had made credible treats against a third person, assaulted them and got those charges dropped because the assault was deemed self defense. Because and this might shock you, defending an other person is still self defense as far as legal definitions go.
As to you rather defending your self rather than getting an italian lawyer. While I can't speak as to the general quality of italian lawyers.
Yes you should 100% do this it can not backfire on you in any way shape or form.

>>62889737
>there is no argument to be had with those that don't understand it.
I agree. Especially if you have no argument to begin with. Everyone can spout bullshit without any evidence backing them up and claim others just don't understand. It's pretty simple, you argue that you could get aquitted from chasing down someone and executing them, you don't bring ANY examples that are relevant to the discussion that support your claim. Don't be mad when people don't take seriously a what if on top of other 5 what if with zero precedents. In my country a politician put himself in that same situation, he was harassed by a crazy muslim in a bar, he distanced himself, when the mudslime went away he then went after him in his words to have him wait for the police, the hurka durka turned hostile and the politician shot him. The Court's ruling: "We cannot speak of self-defense because he was the one who created and accepted a dangerous situation" Which is right, if you purposefully put yourself in a dangerous situation you cannot claim self defence.

>>62889954
I don't know how they spell it in Italian but this is something I like about French at least, "self defense" is usually worded as "legitimate defense" which is much better.

Because psychos like Zimmerman or the guy you're answering to have infested gun forums and basically believe that if they can frame the situation in a way that sounds like they defended themselves they should get away with it even if they had provoked him.

These guys simply don't understand that nobody has to agree with their delusions.

>>62889954
you conflate me discussing hypothetical legal cases with wanting to go on some psychopath murder spree.
you case doesn't resemble the ones I referred to or made as a hypothetical at all since there wasn't a present danger posed by the mudslime.
What you need is present and real danger that can't be avoided in any other reasonable way aside from giving chase and then using proportional violence.
That's the basis of my "made a threat against my daughter hypothetical" and the case my friend got seponated. Those elements have to be present of you can't have a lawful use of self defense.
You reach to precedent is frankly midwit.
First of we are all talking about continental legal systems. Precedent doesn't have any legal power or value. Any judge at any time can go against precedent as long as he stays within the law. No court is "bound" by an other courts precedent. Even if that other courts is you court of appeals or the nations high court or constitutional court. All you'd get for going against their precedent is an appeal and the case being sent to an other lower court whom can again just ignore precedent.
Also precedent gets change and broken all the time that's how legal theory moves from within the legal field. Also it's not like judges feel terribly confined or bound by the law if they want to deviate from it.
>>62890239
légitime défense is just self defense with an other word for it. It is still based on the old code pénal Napoleon.
And yes framing a situation is what lawyers do all the fucking time, it's our job. Because guess what, more than half your clients are guilty and it's your duty to do the best job you can for them. You have to try and figure out if you can get an acquittal and failing that get them as low of a sentence possible. You'll try to twist and frame things as much as you can get away with. Because it's your fucking job.

>>62890239
Pasta dropping by just to tell you that in Italy we have "legittima difesa" as a codified legal justification. We also have the crime of "excess of legitimate defense". I'm not a lawyer, and I'm deeply unfamiliar with law-speak, so I can't really explain further.

>>62890545
I haven't read your hypothetical or the law and honestly won't be bothered to. The difference between self defense and "legitimate defense" is the implication that it is not always legitimate to defend yourself.

The Zimmerman case is a good example, he was following a kid who was going home late at night. At some point the kid felt cornered and attacked Zimmerman, which was legitimate since he had a good reason to believe he was in danger and had tried to avoid the situation. Zimmerman killed the kid in self defense because he believed he was in danger, but it was not legitimate because this is a situation he got himself into because he wanted to confront someone and kill them.

In Europe he wouldn't have gotten away with it which is a good thing.

Another example would be cops arresting you. If you're not cooperative or if they're in a bad mood they'll use threats and violence to make you comply especially in the US, so killing a cop trying to arrest you is basically self defense. It's not legitimate however because they are supposed to do that as part of their job.

>>62889703
it’s not
the law says you shouldn’t keep your guns and ammo somewhere safe, not easily reachable by people other than yourself
that’s it

>>62891525
*should, obviously

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>>62891473
>being anti-zimmer man
>on /k/
go home war tourist you aren't welcome here

>>62868896
>and i don't think pepper spray is gonna stop one of these pot/alchol/coke abuser shitheads charging at you

Actually it do.

As for the rest dunno, go rob beretta factory or some shit dumb ass nigga.

>>62891773
No u

>>62891525
If you keep your guns somewhere that can get easily broken into and they get stolen during a robbery you're at fault

>>62885365
Still OP here
>unless you live in naples.
Bitonto, Foggia and Barletta sono i paesi di provincia peggiori della Puglia and they're like Naples. I was assaulted by a baby gang, by a well know local cokehead pedo (who was also hinting on two teens working in a bar before he started throwing beer bottles at me). I witnessed a pitbull attack on another dog (the owner is a retard chav girl) and i was almost attacked by one (on leash and without a muzzle ofc) the owner of this one is even more retard

>>62888710
>doesn't want an Italian American
>imports Africans instead
what did he mean by this?

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>>62869020
>>62880034
>>62885608
>SAAAARRRRR WE ARE LIGHT SKIN CASTE UPPER CASTE WE AREA RYAN SAAAR PLEAS SEND BOB YES YES WE ARE ARYAN TOO SAAR NOT LOW CASTE ZAINCHI BROWN SAAARRR NOOOOOO

>>62894188
that's the norm in terronia.

>>62894200
That's a common sentiment here in europe, you are just that much worse. Don't take it personally.

>>62868896
you're right
pepper spry is not going to save you
and if you bully someone more will unonize in retailiation
kys

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>>62894287
Nigger.

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>>62894877
Yes saaaarrr you are white like swede or german saaarrr upper caste yes yes

>>62894877
>saaar no you are subhuman saaaar

>>62871236
"Ad aumentare sono state soprattutto alcune tipologie di reato più violente: le rapine commesse da minori nel 2023 sono state oltre 3.400, in salita del 7,9% sul 2022 e oltre il doppio a fronte delle 1.594 segnalate nel 2010."
Guess which demographics has the most browns? U braindead reddit retard

>>62874661
> the one that got the 17 years (roggerio) is the one that chased the thieves and executed them, he deserves to rot in jail.

They tied up his daughter at gunpoint and threatened them with death. He deserves a medal for executing those pieces of shit you’re a retarded faggot with the same IQ number as that of the capacity of his magazine

>>62894465
>terronia
It's still italy. Any tribalfags thinking otherwise is part of the problem alongside brownies, which are the equivalent of british chavs

>>62896044
>He deserves a medal for executing those pieces of shit
Oh, morally I agree with that. Just don't call it self defence as the law is pretty clear on what is and is not legittima difesa. Anything else is you throwing a tantrum, you know full well that under our laws (or anywhere in the world) what he did couldn't be classified under self defence, so either he should've let them go or shot them before they could get away.

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>>62895234
>>62895258
Woops. Amerilard nigger

>>62893248
how is that any different from what I said

>>62896141
>It's still italy.
>

>>62897206
The fact that the law doesn't require you to buy a safe? There are plenty of sentences that prove that as long as you did something to keep them out of the reach of anyone who doesn't have a license it's enough. Even just putting them in a locked wardrobe or a drawer is enough. A trigger lock can be enough.

>>62896797
>(2)

>>62897704
that's what I'm saying retard
I keep my ammo in a box closed by a lock
each gun is in its case (with a number-combination lock)
I asked the police and they clearly said it's enough

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>>62896797
>>62897735
>SAAAAARRRR WE HAVE ARYAN DNA SAAAAARRRRR LOOK AT THE CHART ARYAN BLOOD BECHOD WE ARE THE SAME LET ME SEX UR WOMEN BECHOD

>>62897206
That by only putting it into a locker that can easily get opened with a crowbar you are gambling with the judge deciding it was enough. With a safe you are safe (eh)

lol how are you trying to make "they commit half the crimes" backwards it doesnt even make sense