Do shotguns have any purpose in contemporary warfare outside of a few niche utility roles such as drone defense and maybe breaching?
not really. The grouping/range thing is a real problem. With modern optics you know exactly where your ar/ak rounds are going to go where as with a shotgun its a rough guess unless you are within 50m which is almost grenade range in the first place. You add in things like body armor and it its main advantage goes away as you are basically just peppering somebody with .38 specialThe only benefit to warfare now is against drones and doors
>>62918327i would argue 'drone defense' is not niche currently and shotguns will play a vital role in the next armed conflict between two first world countries with the amount of drones that are going to be deployedi feel like we will have a designated shotgunner role in squads that is purely for drone defense
>>62918327They're about as effective as an SMG. Low penetration and range but good rate of fire and weight. SMGs actually have better range, though.
>>62918327They've always been a niche gun in military roles, really the only conflicts where they had a place was WWI and (debatably) Vietnam. I'd go as far to say, with the proliferation of low flying drones they're about as relevant as they've ever been and they're still a third rate pick for drone defense after EW and flak
>>62918342This. And the ammo is a big problem too. Shotshells are enormous and heavy compared to anything short of a .50 cal. You can carry a lot more intermediate rifle ammo than you can shotshells for the same space/weight.>>62918473Even in those conflicts the main point of shotguns was something other than being the most effective weapon for the job. One major function of shotguns in war is to free up more rifles for the troops who need them more. The main motivation for adopting the trench shotgun wasn't a better weapon for trench fighting, it was to supply an adequate weapon for trench fighting, while freeing up rifles to go where they were more desperately needed. During Vietnam the US issued shotguns to the South Vietnamese because they wanted to give them weapons, but at the same time they didn't want to give out state-of-the-art weapons. Shotguns were good enough, cheap, and not as good as M16s or Garands in case shit went sideways and the guns being ended up used against Americans. That's also one of the main reasons why shotguns are commonly issued to guards and MPs. They are highly lethal for guarding prisoners, yet if prisoners manage to overpower the guards and get the weapons they are less of a hazard to everyone else than if they captured rifles instead.
>>62918327They don't make any sense as a fighting weapon in war when you could have an intermediate caliber rifle. There is no objective benefit to it as others have stated.I did read once about a guy that said he preferred to bring it along sometimes because Iraqi nationals thought you meant business if you had a shotgun.I do however firmly believe they are fantastic home defense weapons. They have a place in clearing houses as well, as long as they're backed up by someone else with a carbine or SMG at least.
>>62918327Oh man that’s a sexy scattergat. Love those sights. What model is it? I want one.
>>62918327from GWoT stuff I've heard glowing things about shotguns. Not sure that's conventional though.
I wonder if you could make flechettes work these days. If you could extend the range to like 100 yards i don't think you'd need much energy to take out a drone?
>>62919932totally agreed you wouldn't need much energy to take out small drones, but flechettes are very high drag like spherical shot so I don't think they'd help a whole in terms of extending range. Plus there's the usual hassle of getting them to stabilize and keep a dense pattern. In that regard shot might have an advantage simply in terms of pellet count.
>>62919843GWOT was soldiers pushed into doing police work on people they don't know nor understand. There are lessons to be learned from those veterans but you should also understand no one will breach doors with 12 gauge in a real war, they'll breach buildings with 40mm HEDP and then keep lobbing HE into the hole until no one moves.
>>62919795Believe it’s a benelli m3.
>>62920333It looks like an M3 SBS but the sight configuration is a little unusual; normally the M3 has the rear sight on the receiver, behind the rail, but here it's on the barrel and there is no rail.
>>62918456Slugs beat pistol calibers at 50-100 meters.Recoil and capacity is the real downside.
>>62919843Part of that is cultural. Assault rifles are normal in Irag and Afghanistan, pistols signified officer or special police and a 590 with an M9 attached was taken as a visceral threat.Even turdie muslims are not so stupid as to not understand what buckshot will do to a torso or limb.
>>62919682We really need a domestic company to make decent 12 gauge suppressors.A 940 or 1301 running #4 with a red dot and cheap metal 3D printed suppressor is pretty hard to top for home defense.I wish Federal would bring back their #1 load.
>>62920426>A 940 or 1301 running #4 with a red dot and cheap metal 3D printed suppressor is pretty hard to top for home defense.lol yeah a 4ft long gun is great for home defense
>>62918327unfortunately for war they're always niche, but in the case of a guerilla fighter, you can make that niche your primary method of engagement to the point where they're better than having a rifle. still, you want to have a rifle, it'll serve you better in most scenarios.
>>62918327Drones are too high up for shotguns
>>62921346>birds are too high up for shotguns
>>62921346Depends on what the drone is doing. Grenade drop? Probably. Recon? Definitely. Suicide? Definitely not.
>>62918327Yeah, wasting a motherfucker.
>>62920457>Too longNot when it's an SBS, would also be good for blasting burrs innawoods without the can
