First of all, enjoy this Elysium Chemrail /k/ino absolutely mulching that dude.What's the tech that we're gonna see in the future? Is it gonna be stuff like Elysium or URM (Battle Angel Alita's Unified Republics of Mars)-tier tech?IMHO the cool stuff could be (or at least I wish it was some of this stuff):-HMX/CL-20 based propellants (PBX being 95-96% CL-20/HMX). CL-20 is currently being tested as rocket and arty propellant. It's great. Non-polluting, acid free (rifle's gonna love it), solid particulates-free (easy cleaning), and lead-free (which is great). It's also smokeless and has only a faint shock diamond pattern that is visible in the otherwise transparent exhaust (when used in rockets, while in guns is basically invisible). This means that if the rifle has a fairly long flash hider (ex. JP Enterprises JPFH-762L), a soldier may be effectively invisible. The muzzle velocities may be 7,000 to 10,000 ft/s (stuff like 200ksi ammo).-Additive manufacturing. With the exception of the BCG and barrel (which must resist pressure/force), the rest can be additive manufactured. Potentially, we could make honeycomb structures that weight 1/4th of the original part (and out of steel too).Another big part may be casings. The same principle of honeycombs (if properly designed) can be applied to casings, allowing troops to carry more ammo.-Advanced optics with integrated hyperspectral/IR+NVG vision and laser rangefinders.1/2
-Sub-MOA accuracy and extreme reliability in the shittiest conditions, maybe even in space. The M16's performance is said to be 5,000 MRBS. Imagine being able to fire 100,000 rounds without a single malfunction. It should also be able to eat whatever ammo you throw at it, whether it's steel/brass/aluminum.-Advanced ammunition. The M855A1 is great start. "AP" tip, copper slug, gilding metal jacket. Metals behave like fluids at hypersonic impact speeds (APFSDS do it too), and the resulting solution can be super-cavitating tips (ex. CAV-X ammo - which is also being studied for extended ranges since it's super low drag). We could have ammo that is capable of penetrating Lv.4 vests at like 1,100 yds or even more.If you were to fire a 155 gr bullet at 7,000-10,000 fps, it would have 1.5-2x the muzzle energy of a 50 cal. Devastating terminal effects with a flat trajectory.-An actual anti-recoil system. The AK-107's system reduces felt recoil instead of actually cancelling it, because it's a closed system. Recoilless rifles work because the mass thrown in the front is matched by the gases in the back. An open system based on a short-stroke piston might solve the issue of firing such powerful ammo.2/2
ohmygaw guyze look at how deep I can navelgaze it's soooo deep and profound
Yeah
>>62981689Faggot
>>62981340Bolts and extractors to cope with high pressure have been developed; along with high psi ammo optimized for M4 level performance with 5.7 cartridge size and 5500fps performance with M4 cartridge size. Add to this flow-through suppressors, polymer aeroshells/driving bands/jackets, PVD coated barrels, higher gas volume cooler-burning triple base nitrocellulose, FEA optimized modernized M4 actions reducing the chassis weight, and polymer or poly-hybrid cases reducing ammo weight 30% stacked atop the high psi enabled smaller cases.MP7s with M4 performance and 50rnd mags. Handguns with fragmenting ammunition for rifle level lethality. M4 sized DMRs and beltfeds with hypersonic EVLD ammunition, constant recoil, and plastic linked plastic cased belts enabling gunners to move as lightly as a modern rifleman.
>>62982253>What if we stuffed a M80A1 in a 13" barrel and M4 magwell? -t. nathanielFSig should have copied him.
>>62982278
Plastic jackets reduce barrel heating
>improve your technical gunners' accuracy 200% with this one weird trick from the 1940s
This packing list is hilariously edited to look light but you can still see how the machinegun ammo supply slows down the whole platoon.
Future pistol bullets
Constant recoil can be retrofitted into existing machineguns with modern springs
aim stabilizers
Reliable mag-fed MGs with 100-round ultra-compact drums (also reliable and not crap)
>>62982355At the end of the day is a simple system, it may have a longer receiver but that's it
>>62982316Well it's not that it slows down. It's more like 1,000 rnds distributed among the fireteam/squad
>>62984855It's usually not distributed, it's 1500+ rounds total and the platoon moves at the speed of the slowest part.
>>62984976And? Unless you have already set up a base of fire to support an assault you are not sprinting through territory.
>>62984976My experience is with the Corps, I don't know much else. We'd usually lighten the load of our 0331 brother
>>62981340i expect constant recoil mechanisms like that of the LAMG to become standard for all machine guns. I just don't see the disadvantage, while the advantage is obvious.
>>62981340also surely someone will figure out reliable quadstacks soon right?
>>62988078Feeding problems....
>>62987938The only thing I know that is negative about constant recoil designs (Ultimax 100) is that they can be a bitch with blanks. Anything else is great (slightly longer receivers but nothing serious).
>>62981340ok so let's create the perfect weapon of the future:fed by 60+ capacity drum/casket magazine (reliable) loaded with case-telescoped 5x35mm gigapressure machfuck velocity ammo that fragments more and still weighs less than current ammo out to 300m. Either polymer cases or XM7 bimetal case with plastic driving band for minimal barrel wear. Barrel is made of aircraft grade titanium for heat management, maybe forced air cooling shroud just in case? The rest is 3d printed lightweight honeycombed aluminum/steel?/titanium? (shh assume we get metals from asteroids and have nearly post-scarcity level resources). The preasure bearing parts like the bolt are optimized for wear resistance of course. The weapon has a constant recoil system allowing this lead storm to be fired full auto at 800+ RPM while still <1 MOA. The optic has an integrated rangefinder and outline recognition capabilities even through smoke or fog and at night. The weapon possesses an integrated power supply for powering a digital ammo counter, a heat meter, and the scope. Maybe even a steadycam-like foregrip to manage recoil. Just in case, there is also a bayonet lug and forward assist
>>62982125nigger
>>62988236>Bayonet for stabbing dudesFuck yeah.
>>62981340bump
>>62981340Mach five squeezebores bottom text
High speed dense metal spikes propelled with high explosives or propellants
>>62988236these already exist
>>62989873Bump
>>62981340HYAAAAAA
>>62981340Looks inaccurate as h*ck
>>62991675Awesome grenade scene. The face reconstruction scene is cool too ahah
>>62991399Those are hella cool in big calibers like 30 mm or 40 mm to rip stuff to shreds. Like it'd be cool if attack helos had it to absolutely annihilate enemy helos
>>62982278If it doesn't blow up, yeah....
>>62989873BUMP
>>62981689retards get angry when confronted by people with the capacity to think about things
>>62981342>An open system based on a short-stroke piston might solve the issue of firing such powerful ammo.Can you elaborate on that?
>>62993160I second this
>>62981340Just like Crysis mate
>>62991675what movie is this?>>62993205when he said about an open system, i thought of this. This is for larger diameter cannons though.https://ndia.dtic.mil/wp-content/uploads/2010/armament/WednesdayLandmarkAMikeBixler.pdf
>>62988236I know next to nothing about actual engineering, but for cooling, could you theoretically transfer the heat from the barrel to create power? Like, I'm sure it's possible in theory, but not practical right now, right? I know that the issue with caseless ammo is heat not being transferred into the brass, so this could kill two birds with one stone. You'd still want backup batteries, ofc. At the very least it would make for good Kino in military sci-fi.
>>62993580>what movie is this?Elysium (2013)
>>62993713https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generatorThe F135 (the f-35's engine) uses them.
>>62992241Imagine ripping fat bursts
>>62991675Ouch
>>62993502Based game
I wanna see +++P+++ chemical propellants and maybe revisit some sort of gyrojet type ammo
>>62995684Gyrojet stuff could be useful for grenade launchers imho
>>62988697niggerfaggot
>>62991753It's a movie...
>>62995882turn the rockets into micro missiles guided somehow and we are onto somethng
>>62989873bump
>>62995977Electro-optical is gonna be dope
>>62996239Bump
>>62996270Bump
>>62982311>farquharDid someone show that dickhead a Forgotten Weapons vid back then?
>>62982355CR isn't just the bolt not bottoming out. It requires pretty exact timing to work right.
>>62981340wouldn't mach-fuck bulletsflechettes? be extremely good ice pickers? is there physically enough time for such a fast bullet to fragment in the small length of the inside of a human torso without just making a clean hole?
>>62991441what weapon combines all of these?
Don't think the guns are going to change much over the next 30 years. Auto targeting is going to be the only big thing, not counting increasingly 3D printed guns. The ability to just get close to what you are shooting and the computer and gyro moving it enough to center mass the target every time.
>>62993713>>62995055i'm sure the vibrations/recoil could also be used for this. it's definetly possible, just has to be EMP resistant and cheap
>>62997544Like every other gun mechanism
>>62998201The NGSW scope was basically this and it sucked. Realistically speaking, you just need a bullet with a well defined trajectory (flat shooting with predictable drop) and a BDC reticle tailored to that. It shoots exactly where you point it.
>>62998269https://www.tegmart.com/thermoelectric-modules/10w-teg-module20 bucks. On a massive scale is definitely cheaper
ELECTROTHERMAL CHEMICAL (ETC) GUNS
>>62981340The problem with the future is that it's unironically gonna be boring. In 5 years everything is going to be drones and robotics. Then it's going to be micro drones (think of a drones the size of a pea flying into your ear and blowing up), all AI controlled for absolute perfection. Weapons will be built for non-humans, you can give a standard robot 700 nitro and it would be the equivalent of giving a human a cap gun, it's a robot, use your imagination. >'but muh radar jamming' >What is Patriot missile wire. Firearm advancement centered around humans will be obsolete within the next decade or two until we Terminator.
>>62998638>Elon Musk-tier retarded opinonLOL
>>62998638The only correct part about this is that humans will further decline as the centre element of the frontline, and fall further back.
>>62998677I think this is incorrect too. You need bodies to clear and hold terrain/objectives. This means infantry. The drone part is gonna be the logistics. You can use them to deliver supplies to your troops in hard to reach areas.
>>62996257Mini Fox-2s
>>62998638Dronefags & AIfags are stupid
>>62991675>>62992237>>62995536>Boss got fucked up, eh?>Ate that fucking grenade, eh?
>>62995684>>62995882>>62995977How many mm would it be? Would a 10 mm gyrojet even make sense?
>>62999216>South African accent>Space sci-fi Blood Diamond vibesAbsolute /k/ino
>>62999727I really like how through the whole movie it gives a >damn elites, treating us like shit!vibe. And then at the end it is heavily implied that the station will be overrun by people from the surface and it will be unable to support them and function properly, so it will descend to near the same level as the surface.At least that was my impression, been a long time since I watched it.
>>62999826Yeah kinda
>>62999233I think they're too small to benefit
>>62990748RAILGUNS
>>62999826>>63000081Technically, they could've just upkept some of those panacea pods on dirtside clinics and that would be that.No need to go to those extremes in division.
>>62999826heh, kinda like a chud dogwhistle
>>63000510>>62999826You didn't realize it's a straightforward South Africa analogy, just like District 9? Mean elitists kept the magic technology people safe and productive. Then idealistic egalitarians let the hordes in, thinking it would lead to utopia, and it crushed the last spark of life instead.
>>63000953>Hollywood vehicle for Matt Damon>Daring to consciously preach Conservative logiclol. LMAO, even.
>>62982295isn't it going to leave some disgusting goop that's hell to clean?
>>63000510I mean it ends with "well"... while the /k/ino is everywhere, the underlying tone is basically like Mexicans crossing the border/class struggle/rich-poor divide.. it's very Hollywood
>>63000464Like the Mach 7 cannon from Transformers 2 LOL
>>63001458Plastic melts so...
>>62995055my question isn't so much about if you can generate power from heat, but if it can be miniaturized enough and be reliable enough to work in a grunt's rifle.
1: hybrid cases for everything. An increase of Energy density of this degree is probably not a trivial thing in any industry. >80kpsi enables smaller and lighter cases for the same energy. Intermediate cartridge MP7s, 1700+ ft*lb 5.56’s, unified dual-cartridge paradigm, etc. it will certainly shake things up2: Constant recoil. This isn’t new but is criminally ignored. Controllable, accurate, and useful full auto at 100yds is 100% possible and the tech has existed for decades. Look up videos of the ultimax 100 firing and try not to become erect.3: Quad stack mags. Also not new but improve the useful of full auto by a lot, and they’re the most mass and volume efficient way of holding and feeding ammunition. Mag weight divided by capacity is lower than double stacks and like 1/3 that of drums.Honeycomb case section sounds interesting. How would you zipper from 2 stacks down to 1 though? CRF would be required, but that’s probably the easy part.>>62982278Got a link to his article? How does he propose m80a1 (and presumably, it’s ballistics) be shrunk down to 2.26”?Also, doesn’t he fucking hate heavy cartridges and short ogives?
>>62982355My nigga, another constant recoil appreciator.Literally no reason we can’t have 5lb constant recoil mag-fed LMGs. >>62984255Drums aren’t as good as they seem when quad-stacks enter the picture. The 53rd quadmag weighs ~6oz. If you prorate to 60rds that’s 6.8oz (but it doesn’t scale like that, it would actually be lighter). But a Magpul 60rd drum (also polymer) weighs 20.5oz. A full THREE TIMES heavier per round. Quad stacks are also basically just cuboids, they fill a space nicely and efficiently. Drums, however, might actually be the least optimal shape ever for filling a volume lol. You can’t really carry drums.You are correct though in that mag feed > belt feed. The Surefire 60rd quad stack isn’t too long so as to be unwieldy - it’s about 1” shorter than PMAG 40s. If you extended the 4 stacks all the way up desert tech style, you’d gain an addition 15 rounds, for a total of 75rds. This gives 2.5 times the capacity and time of fire as an AR. If you drop the cyclic rate down to 550 via constant recoil, you gain an additional ~1.6x the time. We’re already in LMG territory with ~9 seconds of continuous fire.And ofc you’d get Higher capacity for smaller case heads. The next step would be octostack mags lmao
>>62988078You know I think desert tech did. I’ve never gotten my hands on one and never will because I live in CA. But I’ve seen pics and vids. They’ve simplified it to use one follower and one spring. They could cut down on length or increase capacity a bit more by using nested springs like the surefires. And I can’t tell too well from pics but it looks like the w double-stacks are separated by an ungodly amount of space when they just need to be kept apart by like a millimeter. So their mags could be narrower. But reliability-wise, I’ve never heard anything but praise. It seems they’ve solved it.They’ll never be as reliable in drop tests and what not as double stacks, but desu I think they’re still worth it even if they sacrifice in that one field. We’re taking almost doubling mag capacity. this is huge for full auto
>>62987938We’re gonna keep waiting until we’re dead. Constant recoil is decades old and all the world’s militaries are sleeping on it. Fucking retards.>>62988096The longer receivers simply eat into the stock of the gun, which is just there for ergos and no other reason. Doesn’t increase LOP or anything.I didn’t know about the blanks problem. But who gives a shit? That’s a trivial price to pay for the incredible value of useful full auto, esp from the shoulder.
>>62988236This is basically my thinking as well, except.>CT constant recoilCan you make a constant recoil action for CT where the chamber rises up and down?>800rpm constant recoil800rpm is too high. Constant recoil might not feel all that different from a typical 800rpm rifle. Drop it down to 500rpm, and increase the duration of continuous fire by 1.6x. Now you have a pseudo-LMG.>fancy opticsThe optic can also feature an integrated round counter superimposed on the same focal plane as the reticle. It would talk to a spool of wire in the baseplate, with the other end connected to the follower. The degrees of rotation would tell you how many rounds are remaining in the mag. How cool would that be?>CT vs conventionalAll in all, there’s nothing wrong with conventional-case ammo. CT doesn’t play well with long ogives anyway. Which is another area which needs to improve. I want minimum 3 caliber long von-Karman ogives. I want my bullets to be perfect Sears-Haack bodies. As far as reducing weight, hybrid case means you can just make the case smaller for the same energy. Shell shock’s cases will handle 70kpsi no problem per some bubba on the internet, and they are 30% lighter than brass (for rifle cases). Maybe they can be re-engineered to handle 80k or higher without issue?
>>62981342>infinite gun/barrel life and reliability5000 MRBS is more than enough. There is such a thing as diminishing returns. If the average gunfight required you to expend thousands of rounds in a short time, then it would be worthwhile to increase gun/barrel life and reliability. But 5000 is perfectly fine. Also, I think metals just weld together in space, lol. But if they don’t, everything will be subsonic. Siiiick>155gr@7000-10000fpsWould also produce ~16x the recoil energy of a 308 in a gun of the same weight. Now you could lighten the bullet and reduce its caliber, but you will need to keep it superheavy for caliber bevause 7-10kfps needs almost prooertionally high BCs to counteract extreme velocity loss. Not necessary, but sensible to do. Anyways, the caliber would have to be absolutely tiny to keep recoil manageable. Like a 50-60gr .14-.17 caliber @7000fps or so.>recoilless rifleBut how? Ejecta momentum out the back would need to equal ejecta momentum out the front. But “out the back” means directly into your shoulder.. or maybe through some nozzle that circumvents your body through your armpit or something?
>>63003441>Can you make a constant recoil action for CT where the chamber rises up and down?i've never though of that! though really the only 2 guns with a moving chamber like that that i can think of are the Textron NGSW and the ACR Steyr entry. The LSAT machine gun used a swinging chamber, not a rising chamber. The G11 and the 40mm CT gun used a rotating chamber.
>>62982322Pistols might benefit immensely from squeezebore. What comes out the muzzle is Indistinguishable from a rifle bullet, but it starts off big and fat and thus requires a very short barrel for acceptable efficiency.I say “might” because a pistol is a <50yard gun and so rifle-tier BC’s are not needed. A lightweight, high caliber, superfast projectile is probabaly even better, since with low SD it would come to a stop within the target, dumping all its energy.Or, alternatively, extremely long expanding subs. Like micro 8.6 blackout with some new cartridge configuration where the bullet can take up the entire length of the case. Load it up with ~1.6” long 3-petal bullets that will expand to an inch or more in diameter.
>>62998201No doubt that is the future of optics. But guns do have a clear-ish roadmap on where they can go. For example, ammo can get lighter and combat loads larger. The service rifle and LMG could be unified into a single gun WITH EXTANT TECH. The dual caliber paradigm could be unified into a single cartridge that does everything (though prob not advisable, loses optimization and will generally be overkill). And guns can always get lighter and quieter and generally max out all desireable metrics.
>>63003493>single caliber6x50?
>>63003473Come to think of it, I think MAYBE it can. There can be no net up and down movement of the gun since the recoil is always straight back. Maybe a sudden downward jolt followed by an equal upwards Jolt? But the chamber would have to be camming against something that moves back and forth so perhaps these jolts would be felt in the forward/back direction by the giant mass moving back and forth in the gun that drives everything, in which case you can increase this part’s mass, length of travel, and spring weight to decelerate it completely. Goes without saying my physics knowledge is only remedial. Any physics anons want to chime in?
>>63003515https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1W8iz8DyRw at 9:15 ish you can see how the steyr acr uses a specially shaped bar to cam the chamber up and down when pushed by the annular gas piston
>>63003501I would not touch any proposed single caliber solution if it cost any weight penalty over 5.56. The ideal rifle ought to be more SMG-like than not. If you use quad stacks, this frees up like 20-30gr for cartridge weight that you saved in mag weight. So maybe a *slightly* larger case, slightly heavier but much longer/finer .224 bullet, and 80kpsi. Maybe around 1800ft*lbs with much better energy retention than either 5.56 or 308.But you could also simply scale that down to 5.56 energy levels and get a much lighter cartridge that you can carry way more of. So there’s always that angle too. Maybe the dual cartridge paradigm is a good idea.
>>63003484>squeezeboreThat sounds rad but wouldn't it really reduce barrel life
>>63003584I don’t know. I think that would depend on the material being squeezed down.Is anyone really concerned with pistol barrel life though?
Quad stack double decker magazines for pistol sized, rifle power caseless rounds turns ever rifleman into a SAW gunner.
>>63003595how could that feed?
>>63003600I imagine one column would stay a rounds width down and the other columns rounds would be pushed over it until empty then the other column would rise. It could also go the other way around with one being pushed straight out of the magazine till empty and then the other would be push over the follower of the now empty column.
>>63003621honestly if you can have good ballistics out of a sub-30mm case length just use a P90 mag instead
Would squeezbore work with just any ammo? I doubt it would play well with hollowpoint or steelcore ammo.
>>63003600>"Why through the magic of the druids!"
>>63003629you can also use other subcaliber designs if not
>>63003622Yeah but that would take up a lot of rail space, unless you want to have raised rails like the P90 or put it on the side like halo does.
>>63003642ok picture this: the "magwell" swings out so you can have a rail on top of the mag
>>63003637Wonder if it would be possible to use a squeezbore to mold the sabot into fins for the flechette.
>>63003663doesn't the use of one make the use of the other unnecesary? if you use a sabot why go further subcaliber with a squeezebore?
>>63003629If the steel core is smaller than the final bore diameter, I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. If you wrapped a squeezable material around a steel penetrator, that could work I think.Also, one of my fav memes ever is that picture you posted with the caption “CIA award for excellence in journalism”
>>63003657Probably just be easier to go the halo smg route but put magwells on both sides and put a dust cover on the one not in use.
>>63003663Fins? Nobut I could imagine trying to have the squeezebore parts act as a driving band so it can still make use of the rifling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_band
>>63003676Wouldn't that limit the weight of the darts you could use as darts too light wouldn't be properly stabilized by the rifling?
>>62981340how do we feel about electronic primers instead of firing pins? they let you have new shapes since there is no need for the belt to extend much behind the bullet, and you can have digitally programmable fire rates too instead of mechanically
>>63003710*bolt. also canonically all guns in titanfall use these primers.
>>63003710OH! and it completely solves the trigger issues of bullpups and machine guns. All weapons can have perfect triggers. In fact you don't even need a trigger; a simple button could do
>>63003710Do electronic primers cut down on how much the primer/web intrudes into case volume? Can they be made flatter than conventional primers?
>>63003720Variable cyclic rates would be great. Max rpm for something like Hyperburst or for when you panic, and slow firing for suppression.
>>63003743automatically adjusted fire rate depending on weapon heat!
>>63003710>no need for the belt to extend much behind the bulletThat problem was already solved, a shame no one else has tried it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atyPwvgYH-c>digitally programmable fire ratesI don't really see the benefit, anything between 500-800 is fine for pretty much everything.>solves the trigger issues of bullpups and machine gunsIMO trigger issues are way overblown especially if were talking about military guns.The best usage of an electronic firing systems would be for ETC.
>>63003750>ETCetc?
>>63003755https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrothermal-chemical_technologyProbably infeasible for small arms.
Speaking of infeasible for small arms. I'd like to see someone attempt a rifle scale rarefaction wave gun.
Would fins still work if they didn't extend beyond the main body? Could you make full bore finned projectiles that are still accurate?
>>63003772Can you explain that a little? Does this sonic rarefaction wave stay with the bullet forever and prevent drag or something?
>>63003815not that guy but if i understand correctly the wave makes it so you can keep a lot of the velocity that would otherwise be lost through the back. I think.
>>63003710>>63003720An improvement overall>>63003743Ever since I heard the M1918A2 BAR didn't had two modes of full auto I always liked the idea of it becoming a feature in more guns in the future
>>63003809No. The point is ensure that the least amount of drag in the projectiles body is in the forward-oriented position. If the bullet pitches, the fins present a much larger area towards the direction of travel and will be pushed back to where they present only their thinnest portion.I think you might be able to stabilize a bullet shaped object by a difference in mass between front and back. I don’t know for sure. I think this because if I had like a long bar, where half is made of polymer, and the other half of tungsten, and threw it horizontally like picrel, the tungsten half having much higher sectional momentum wouldn’t really care about air resistance, while the polymer side acts would slow down very fast. The tungsten would want to continue ahead of the polymer, and so the bar would rotate 90 degrees until the tungsten is directly ahead of the polymer. And it should stay like this.Picrel. blue is tungsten, red is polymer. Green is the direction you throw it. Yellow is the way it turns until the bar is oriented in the direction of the green arrow.
>>63003815So long as the wave reaches the bullet as it exits the barrel it should lose little if any velocity when you open the breach early to vent the gas out the back.https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA504316.pdf
>>62982253>Half Life 2 MP7's with rifle performance and 50+ mag capacity>Grenade launcher firing thermobaric 40mm includedThe violence has escalated.
>>63003853*So long as the wave doesn't reach the bullet before it exits
>>63003501Hey, I’m this guy>>63003529I did some back of the Napkin math and found that the following has ALMOST no weight penalty over a 210rd 5.56 combat load (if the gun is 0.5lb lighter, then there is no weight penalty). This assumes reducing the weight of mags slightly by using 60rd quad stacks (7oz), and filling that weight with cartridge mass instead.Case: 6.8 SPC lengthened to ~1.9”Made shell shock style, 30% lighter than brassCaliber: .224Bullet length: 1.5”Bullet weight: 100gr (scaled from m855)Pressure: 80kpsiApprox velocity: 3000fpsEnergy: 2000ft*lbsThat’s actually really sick. And just narrow enough for quad stacks to not be comically wide.A bullet this long could have an exceptionally low form factor of 0.7. This yields a G7BC of 0.4. Picrel is what the ballistics chart looks like.It’s a cool idea, I think, using extremely high BC bullets to maximize retained energy at range, but at the expense of muzzle energy, because really, all rifle rounds have an overkill amount of muzzle energy. 5.56 is adequate at 300 yards even with an unimpressive 700ft*lbs.
>>63003937Forgot to add. COAL = 2.8”. And the velocity is from a 20” barrel.
>>63003868>MP7 with rifle performance.This is a big one. We could conceivably have holsterable assault rifles in the near future. Optimize grip geometry to fit the deepest and widest magazine in there without becoming overly uncomfortable, and scale 5.7x28 up to those dimensions. You could get 1000+ ft*lbs out of such a cartridge. That’s like a mk18 but much shorter and like 2 or 3 pounds lighter
>>63003710They're already used in tank ammo
>>63003296https://www.adaptivete.com/products/adaptive-peltier-generator-35-couples-0-86w-2-8v-0-6a-22x11-2-epoxy-sealed-2/We already have them
>>63003391I think it's more of a design issue tied to who designs and makes them. For example, a 100-round drum (AK47) weights about 2.9 lbs empty. BUT, it's all thick 1950s steel. There are a million ways to make a double-stack compact drum.
>>63003468Guns shoot perfectly fine in space
>>62981340Fully controllable full auto at 1,200 RPM
>>63004035For drums to become competitive with quad stacks, they’d need to undergo a 3x weight reduction from their current polymer incarnations. And even then, they’d only be at parity with quad stacks. And you’d still have the problem of drums being clunky to carry. Their only redeeming quality is that there is a gigantic volume inside that could, in theory, be tiled with max efficiency with cartridges, and give you 150+ round capacities in a small package. So if you absolutely need that high a capacity, where you can’t spare the time to reload once, then yeah, drums would be the way to go. They’re also useful prone. Not so much AR drums though, there’s like 2” in mag height taken up in the magwell.It sounds like I don’t like drums, but I just don’t like them now. If some brainbox can figure out how to make a drum that feeds from an array of cartridges that tile the plane at 70% density or whatever it is for circles, then they’d peak my interest. There’s more of a length constraint on mags than one of width, and drums excel in this regard. So we’ll see where drum design goes.
>>63004052Glizzy wit a switch and a stock.Is there a real use to super high RPM? I know Hyperburst was explored, but is it a meme? Will you ever need 1800rpm full auto where 550rpm will be insufficient?
I feel like explosive ammunition has a lot of potential that hasn't been explored. For instance the 7.62 round that made this exit wound the size of Ian's head had about the same volume as a .45. I suspect that lower velocities would allow it to detonate within the body more reliably than they were able to get it to work in the video, and velocity wouldn't really do much to improve the lethality of explosive ammo.
>>63004113Isn’t that a normal exit cavity for 7.62x39?
>>63004117it was 54r, and I'm pretty sure it isn't.
>>63004113>I feel like explosive ammunition has a lot of potential that hasn't been exploredthere's this pesky Geneva suggestion in the way
>>62981340>filling the armory on your space station for the ultra-rich with rifles that insanely over-penetrate everything within your line of fire.
>>63003361>Honeycomb case section sounds interesting. How would you zipper from 2 stacks down to 1 though? CRF would be required, but that’s probably the easy part.CRF already works for double-stack mags since WW2 (ex. K98K)
>>63004069MG-42 ring a bell?
>>63004069M16/M4 cyclic rate is 800-950 RPM
>>63004567Lol ahahWell, they had all sorts of OP weapons
>>63004113That ammo was old and degraded too, modern ammo using modern explosives would be nasty. Pistols would benefit the most and would become more lethal at short distances than rifles.
>>63004499I was thinking more for civilian use in self defense ammo. Handgun lethality has always been less than desirable. I think it's more of a problem with US laws than international military laws that prevent it from being developed further. Also the US isn't even a party to the conventions banning explosive bullets.>>63005751>Pistols would benefit the most and would become more lethal at short distances than rifles.I think that's true, although PDWs and SMGs would also become quite potent. I think .45 would actually be a pretty good candidate for using explosive ammunition, so maybe the 1911 could be brought back for a third world war. I wonder what the performance of explosive rounds against body armor would be like. On the one hand they probably wouldn't penetrate, on the other hand I don't know how much that'd matter to the person who was shot.
>>63006314If you wanna get really nasty you could make a pistol in .500SW with this kind of mag. The recoil would be huge, but so would the holes be in whatever you shot with it.https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/a0/f6/cf/3962c6b55e0c46/US11105574.pdf
>>63006828Brrrttttt
>>63006828>.500SWwhy not .50 GI? >The recoil would be hugeyou could get away with pretty low velocities since explosive rounds only need to be going fast enough to reach the target and trigger the detonation mechanism. Recoil probably wouldn't be too bad.
>>63007144.50 GI seems to top out at 300gr while .500SW goes to 700gr. The bigger the bullet the more explosives you can stuff in there.
>>63007179I figure you could probably load it with a bigger bullet at the expense of some velocity. Regardless I bet a single shot even with a 9mm explosive bullet would kill a person dead pretty much instantly. 600gr would probably be a lot more boom than you need unless your target is wearing power armor or something.
>>63006314>against body armorwho cares. Tear flesh off for the flesh god!
>>63006828What a terrible waste of a great idea. The magazine in that diagram, with that high grip angle, can probably handle a COAL of >1.8” comfortably. And your idea is to stick a rimmed fuckhuge meme cartridge in it? 300 blackout supers work, or better yet, chamber it in 221 fireball and call it a holsterable mk18. Infinitely more useful, mag capacity still 30rd. I just don’t understand how you could see that and think “yeah It should be chambered in 500SW, that’s the future”>>63007144>.50 GIIf the discussion wasn’t about an explosive payload in a bullet, I would make fun of you right about now for even bringing up 50 GI.
>>63004676Yes, but was its cyclic rate the reason it was such an effective machinegun? Genuinely curious as I don’t know. ~550rpm strikes me as the ideal. Not too fast, not too slow, conserves ammo, still keeps heads down, and the recoil energy is delivered to the shooter over a longer time>>63004683I know. So?
>>63007144Yeah this is important. But what range are we talking about? Velocity will have to scale with desired maximum point blank range, so energy with its square. If it’s a 100 yard gun, IIRC it’s something like 950-1000fps is sufficient for a 7” target.. But if 50 yards is sufficient, you could get away with 4-500fps. About a quarter the energy, more room in the case for explosive boolit.What happens when you ND with one of these though, like right next to your foot? lol. And how do they deal with cook offs. Does the explosive detonate at a lower temp than the propellant burns? That could spell disaster.
>>63007911>I would make fun of you right about now for even bringing up 50 GI.I felt gross about it, believe me>>63007944>what range are we talking about?I'm sure if explosive bullets were deregulated and the market latched onto them you'd see all sorts of explosive bullets for different applications. I suspect that they'd be most common in handguns, but who knows.>What happens when you ND with one of these thoughthe notion of a P320 loaded with explosive bullets is definitely chilling.>how do they deal with cook offs.I think explosive rounds would probably use explosives that just burn if set on fire, and would have a mechanism inside that would only detonate if they hit something at extremely high speeds in a specific direction, like the mechanism in picrel.
>>62981342>(ex. CAV-X ammo - which is also being studied for extended ranges since it's super low drag).
>>63007911500 automax then, and since the crux of this thought experiment is explosive bullets, bigger is better, if where're not explosives then obviously something smaller is more practical.
>>63007979Realistically is it even possible to fit a mechanism, aka a MECHANICAL DEVICE, inside this tiny a bullet, and still retain enough volume for an explosive payload? Like one of those fuses that only gets activated upon exceeding some angular velocity.510 whisper would be so fucking gangster for an application like this. Literally same thing as HE 50BMG but without the insane kinetic energy. I’m guessing the explosive-laden bullet would be far lighter than the typical 750gr .510. And you still only need to move it at ~1000fps tops. Recoil would should be very manageable, and you could get away with 300 blackout tier barrel lengths.God I want one.
>>63008003>bigger is betterthe pic I posted with an exit wound nearly the size of Ian McCollum's head was from a 7.62x54r round. 7.62x54r bullets tend to be less than 200gr, so a .45 could have an even larger payload. I don't think you'd need to go bigger than that. A hole you can put your arm through in someone is going to kill them.>>63008030>inside this tiny a bullet, and still retain enough volume for an explosive payload?the pic attached to that post was an actual soviet explosive bullet from WW2. Earlier in the thread there is a screencap (post number 63004113) from an InRangeTV episode where they tested them, It is definitely possible to fit a useful explosive payload into a bullet.>God I want one.Me too
>>63008057But I don't want to fit my arm through them I want to see them explode.
>>63008057Check out this picture I foundAside from the benefits of being subsonic and low-recoil, Low velocities might be actually be ideal for explosive bullets, and making the most of them. The picture in the bottom right corner depicts the shrapnel path of the raufoss bullet impacting at, I’m guessing, somewhere between 2500-3000fps. If you cut this velocity down by a third, that whole thing with all the panels would compress by a factor of 3. The bullet would spend more time in the body of whatever you’re shooting and more thoroughly fuck shit up.
>>63008116You could probably turn someone into giblets by magdumping into them with explosive .45 caliber bullets. I know it's not quite what you want, but you probably aren't going to reliably gib a person with a single shot of anything less than 20mm.>>63008123>Low velocities might be actually be ideal for explosive bullets, and making the most of them.I agree, explosive bullets should probably be going as slow as you can get away with. There are limits of course, if it is going too slow the detonation mechanism would have to be so sensitive it probably wouldn't be drop safe, and you also need it to be able to reliably hit the target. I think that people would find an acceptable lower bound for speed and most explosive bullets would hover a bit above it.
>>62982322Make this thing a skinny, stubby straight-walled micro-cartridge. Double stack pocket pistols. Potentially quad stacked 1911 size pistols.
>>63008174I used this resource - https://www.discreetballisticscalculator.com/- and came up with this:50 cal subsonic with the same engraving angle/angular velocity as subsonic 8.6 blackout would be spinning at 168k rpm. Faster than a typical 50 BMG fired from a Barrett with 1:15 twist rate.Top half is a 300gr with 1:4.5 twist at 1050fpsBottom half is a typical 50BMGSo if you use one of those angular velocity type fuses, which, if they aren’t too sensitive with 50BMG, won’t be too sensitive with these subs, will still work. And you should be able to go slower still, though I don’t really know how to quantify “too sensitive” in this regard.
>>63008284>angular velocity type fuseI'm not quite sure what you are referring to. The detonation mechanism in the explosive bullet cross sections posted so far seems to just be a little spike that is held in place by some tabs, and when the bullet decelerates on impact I think the spike gets driven through a metal barrier and into some priming compound, which in turn sets off the main explosive charge.
>>63008334Note that this is just how I think the mechanism works. I may well be completely wrong. Also by too sensitive I meant it might not be drop safe. You don't want someone to accidentally drop their gun off a balcony or something and have an entire mag of explosive rounds detonate on landing.
>>63008334Sorry, I was referring to something I recall reading about but can’t remember details, it’s like a safety mechanism within the bullet that is only disabled by x amount of angular velocity in one specific direction. Without disabling it, you could bang the bullet on a hard surface and it won’t explode.
>>63008437I suspect that even if you could squeeze something like that into an explosive bullet, the extra manufacturing complexity would rule it out for hand gun/rifle ammo. I think that's more like those safety mechanisms they put into 40mm grenades where they don't detonate until they've rotated a certain number of times.
>>62981340BASED CHEMRAIL ENJOYER
>>63007985Yeah. Goes through flesh like butter, but the main use would be vs armor since at over 2.5 km/s metals behave like fluids
>>63008334I think we should have the same mechanisms as autocannon rounds, where the barrel has an electronic magnetic datalink and when the shell passes the muzzle it gives the fuze its proximity/impact settings
>>63008437It's a problem with the Mk211 Raufoss... it can't detonante unless it hits something hard enough. Meaning hitting flesh is not an option
>>63010557That sounds way too expensive for small arms ammo even if it could be miniaturized enough to fit. The mechanism used in WW2 explosive bullets would probably only cost like a buck or two a round once it took off, and would probably never cost much more than 20 bucks a round even when it was new and boutique meme shit, which would be low enough that people might consider buying it as a novelty or even to load their ccw with (you'd want a cheaper training round that ballistically matches the explosive rounds for obvious reasons). I am guessing that at some point it might become viable, but that might be the point where everyone is living in their own private O'Neill Cylinders with a staff of big tiddy robot maids, and price just isn't an issue for anything.>>63010566I found a diagram of the internals of a Raufoss round, along with an X-Ray that someone in a forum somewhere got of one, and they seem to have a different detonation mechanism than the WW2 ammo that has mostly been posted in the thread. I think you could tune the WW2 detonators sensitivity by changing the thickness of the dividing metal or the mass of the spike/penetrator.
>>63004059what about something like the textron LSAT machine gun, where everyone could have a belt-fed? it's still bulky but it's better than a drum.
>>63012388But carrying belt pouches is just as cumbersome as carrying drums, as they’re about the same shape. I don’t know how much the empty belt pouch weighs, but I estimate that all in all belts are as mass-efficient as mags (the links are like 30gr each, kinda heavy actually). But now you have the extra problem of not being able to reload a belt without needing either 3 hands or a surface to set the gun on, the extra time required to reload (although you would be reloading less frequently), and the extra weight and bulk of the belt feed mechanism.
>>63011636>That sounds way too expensive for small arms ammo even if it could be miniaturized enough to fit.Have a peek at this press release. Especially look at the date. https://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/060206.htmlRegarding cost, semiconductor wafers have basically a fixed cost to produce a given circuit; it doesn't really scale with the number of those circuits on the wafer. A linear decrease in chip dimension is an exponential reduction of consumed area of the wafer (and therefore cost of each individual chip). This is why the semiconductor industry spends unimaginable amounts of money to achieve smaller and smaller features in circuits: nothing else affects their profit margins to such a degree. So creating very small circuits isn't inherently costly in itself, but in fact optimal for production.Then combine this concept with an electronic primer: when the trigger is pulled, the gun does all the ballistic calculations and then transmits a time-of-flight to the cartridge. This not only starts the countdown to warhead detonation but also induces the voltage to detonate the primer; from the gun's perspective, firing and programming the round become a single event. So the system is inherently reliable.The production method is in fact much simpler than something like >>63008334: instead of that impact fuse, you just have your chip surrounded by a blob of electrically sensitive primer, in turn surrounded by your main explosive, and all covered in a metal casing. That's hardly an overcomplicated production process. You just need two different cheap little chips (a quick search turned up RF transceivers that you can buy today for $1.50/ea in bulk), one for the primer and one for the warhead, and inserting them isn't meaningfully more complicated than crimping a primer or inserting a ballistic tip into a bullet. tl;dr you could absolutely produce smart-fused ammunition like this, today, for less than $10/rd
>>63003595This is really cool. Some Russian designer back in the day made a sort-caseless round wherein the propellant was stuffed into a hollow bullet (don’t know how priming worked, but it worked), and had a double decker magazine like the one in your picture. The gun automatically fed all the rounds regardless of which stack they came from. This was a pistol that held like 45 rounds. If you did this with quad stacks in a rifle, you could easily have 150+ round capacities.
>>62995912The gun, I mean.
>>62981689>for Renzo could not write read or count, and it was his pride
>>63004015They’ve also been used in aircraft machine gun ammo since the ‘60s and Remington even made a hunting rifle with it (EtronX)
>>63015425Yeah
>>63014398plastic links, that plastic cased ammo from LSAT saves a lot of weight.
>>63014398oh and for reloading you just have a guiding plastic line on the belt itself and just push/ pull it through the rifle (i think czech minimi copy does that, you don't need to lift the top part)
>>62981342>If you were to fire a 155 gr bullet at 7,000-10,000 fpslollmao
>>63015425They've been in use in naval gunnery since the 1880's.
>>63015393>They settled the question, by deciding that misfortunes most commonly happen to us from our own misconduct or imprudence; but sometimes from causes independent of ourselves; that the most innocent and prudent conduct cannot always preserve us from them; and that, whether they arise from our own fault or not, trust in God softens them, and renders them useful in preparing us for a better life. Although this was said by poor peasants, it appears to us so just, that we offer it here as the moral of our story. May Western* culture never vanish from this blessed earth. *even if it's Italian>>63016450Typically steel links are ~2 grams and plastic links are .5 grams each.
>>62981340Wonder if a explosively pumped flux compression generator could power a small railgun like the chemrail.
>>63006828>>63007911>chamber it in 221 fireball and call it a holsterable mk18.keltec, visionaries as always.
>>63017203>>63015393Based Manzoni enjoyers
>>63017350Those generate EMPs
>>63017203>*even if it's Italian3000 years and still going
>>63008030>Realistically is it even possible to fit a mechanism, aka a MECHANICAL DEVICE, inside this tiny a bullet, and still retain enough volume for an explosive payload?No. Even those explosive shotgun slugs that got shilled to hell and back years ago were pitiful.
>>62981340HALO bullet counters
>>63017660>NoThere are plenty of posts in this thread that show you are wrong>those explosive shotgun slugs that got shilled to hell and back years ago were pitiful.Depends on what you compare them to. They were a step up from the damage that would be caused by an ordinary slug, but not nearly as powerful as a 40mm grenade launcher, which is what they were compared to by the military. The same is true for explosive rifle bullets or handgun ammo (especially subsonics). They are a big step up from FMJ or hollow points, but if you compare them to a 40mm then they are going to seem anemic.
>>63017672unironically one of the most difficult engineering problems ITT
>>63008030>>63017660https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlgseOGcFDw>inb4 thread derailed because FW
>>62981342>-An actual anti-recoil system. The AK-107's system reduces felt recoil instead of actually cancelling it, because it's a closed system. Recoilless rifles work because the mass thrown in the front is matched by the gases in the back. An open system based on a short-stroke piston might solve the issue of firing such powerful ammo.Why do braindead noguns motherfuckers make autistic threads about shit they don't even have the slightest clue about?
>>63017895I recall Mikhail Kalashnikov making a bullet counter mechanism for a machine gun, although I've never seen any blueprint of sort
>>63017672>Bring in the 14.5 x 114 mm rifle>Splitting elites in two
>>63017895Probably not.A spring-loaded spool of wire located in the magazine baseplate, with the loose end attached to the base of the follower, the degrees of spool rotation is the remaining mag capacity. Simply communicate this information to the optic in some way, and display the live round count on the same focal plane as the reticle. If I knew more about wireless methods of data transmission I would have a good idea of how to do this. But probabaly some short range signal that is only turned on b when the transmitter is a within a small range of distances from the optic, and in one particular orientation (I.e. mag is the gun, optic is not erroneously displaying the capacity of magazines in your mag pouches.)
>>63017438221 fireball =/= 22 magnumCenterfire =/= rimfire
>>63019517Basically like a mechanical watch... or we find a way to print cheap flat circuits (tape-like or much like a ribbon cable) to put inside a magazine. In theory spring force = round count. Give it an induction interface and you're good to go
>>63017895this guy made one by using the position of the follower. https://youtu.be/anuGYDAhyNI[embed]
>>63020616Is there a more or less analog/battery-less way of communicating this info to the optic? I brought this idea up in another thread long ago, and an anon suggested RFID. But can RFID cycle through different values without power?Thoughts?
>>63001327I dont think District 9 was a straightforward SA analogy, since one of the prawns is also kind of the source of the magic and the corporation wasn't going for utopia.
>>63021230None of those movies is a straightforward analogy, they're pretty subconscious
I have always thought the weapons from BF2142 were cool as fuckMy personal favorite was always the BAUR H-AR
>>63020656ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS
>>63021797That was everyone's favorite, basically. That and the lambert
>>63021797Mine was the Shuko K80 MG
>>63017203Plastic links??
>>63023036yes, they are available. i don't know how much are they used though.
>>63023079I've never heard of them
>>63023360https://armourersbench.com/2022/07/04/ukraines-polymer-machine-gun-belts/https://www.arex.si/linx-pLSAT also had them.
>>63023472brooo what ever happened to LSAT? it looked pretty promising and then no news. I understand that parts of it got used in the Textron NGSW but is LSAT over?
>>63023472Yeah but LSAT was caseless
>>63024053they also made developments in cased telescoped, which were used in Textron's NGSW
>>63023480Ended up in the forgotten projects closet at the DoD
>>63024053no, cased telescoped was the best promising candidate. not that much weight savings, but more reliable.>>63025811this
>>63025933Reliability has to do with design. It's not an instrinsic feature.
>>63022396>MG42 enjoyerBASED
>>63023480It got folded into NGSW and upscaled from 5.56 to 6.8, then they dropped out for some undisclosed reason and Textron have been silent since.
Cylindrical shaped charges are on the horizon. https://ipo.llnl.gov/technologies/national-security-and-defense/tunable-cylindrical-shaped-chargeSpeaking of, does anyone know the max range of some typical EFPs and shaped charges and their accuracy over that range?
>>63027908that looks so unwieldy to hold... as demonstrated by the steyr ACR, cased telescoped is better suited for a bullpup
>>63028199Typical max range for an EFP is 1000x the diameter.
>>62981340https://ipo.llnl.gov/technologies/national-security-and-defense/revolutionary-suppressor-technology
>>63028490Yeah. Try fit that into an actual weapon
>>63028653I was imagining stacking a bunch in a single barrel metal storm style.
>>63028933are you suggesting a gun that fires a 40mm charge that then detonates into an EFP before impacting, or are you suggesting a gun that fires 40mm EFPs? Because if the max range of that gun is 1000x the diameter, then that'd only have 40 meters of range.
>>63029028I knew it'd be impractical I was just thinking about how to fit as many "rounds" into a single tube as possible.
>>63003391>Literally no reason we can’t have 5lb constant recoil mag-fed LMGs.The laws of physics will have their scope. Heat buildup and wear and tear will have their way with the new generation of ultralight 'assault' machine guns. The Israeli NG-5 would appear to be about as light and handy as you can get and still have a long-lasting high-volume weapon.
>>62985670Movement to contact can be either slow (march) or fast (beat feet quick style)
>>63029131>durrr Muh laws of physicsQuit being a hater, nerd.No really though, you might not be able to make an ultralight gun that will survive 1000rds in like 4 minutes, but lightening the entire rest of the gun minus the barrel, making the barrel from something very heat resistant, lining it with stellite, etc, and you could get close. AR barrels blow at 1500+ rounds. And it’s not like anyone’s gonna carry that much ammo. A lightweight LMG that can handle something like a 400-500 round combat load is totally feasible.LMG is probably a misnomer though. More like a standard rifle with MUCH more useful and accurate full auto, and for a longer duration.
>>63028933If range is 1000x the diameter, then for a 40 mm grenade the range is 40 meters. It's quite short.
>>63029131If that was true then our lightweight guns we have today would be shit compared to the heavy ass (2-3x heavier) guns of some decades earlier
>>63029131Retard
>>63029131Also, a 40 year old 17 pound machine gun is NOT as light as it gets. We have lighter 308 machine guns now. The KAC LAMG is <10lbs. The MGX can’t be more than like 8 pounds.
>>63030096Absolutely agree. We have super lightweight guns and there's no reason why we can't make them even lighter
>>63029131Reddit's the other way
>>63029757Exactly, 40 meters is NOTHING. Imagine being so retarded
>>63008123You just have to get the detonator right
>>63027908Because it kicked like a mule
>>63032679That didn't stop SIG.
>>63032740Sig could scrimshaw their guns out of the bones of congressmen's children and still get contracts.
>>62998857What's stopping robot sentries (given 5-10 years from now technology) from clearing and holding terrain? They could do this more effectively than humans, without fear of death, without fatigue, and do it all while being more expendable than infantry.Sure, AI still has a long way to come before it can operate entirely self sufficiently; instead you can rely on a core command of human officers/controllers sitting 1 km from the frontline that's handling the major decision-making of the robot foot infantry.
>>63033668"More effectively" in what? Retarded hajis are able to fight so hard while being 80 IQ retards...The problem with that is that you'd have ti harden them against bullets/explosives. In other words, there's high-velocity AP ammo for that.
>>63032740Lol SIG
>>63032537It would have to be miniaturized enough to be reliable
>>63033104I laughed hard. On point.
>>63035554>>63032537You know there are multiple examples of working explosive 7.62 rounds posted in this thread already right?
>>63008174>You could probably turn someone into giblets by magdumping into them with explosive .45 caliber bullets.This is by far the most embarrassingly retarded thread I've seen in awhile.
>>63037182a .45 explosive round would probably be about 25% larger than the 7.62 round that made this exit wound, which is big enough that Ian from Forgotten Weapons could fit both hands into it with plenty of room to spare. A 13 round glock mag full of explosive .45 fired so as to not hit already pulped parts of the body would almost certainly reduce a corpse to the size of chunks typically referred to as giblets by gamers.
>>63037059They're old designs.
>>63037359Man that would be impressive if human beings were made out of jello you dumb motherfucker.
>>63037403That's ballistic soap, and they stuck a bone inside of it. That giant hole is straight through the bone.
>>62984255>Halo SAWThat abomination should die in a fire, the M247 is what should be used.
>>63008174Not to make this thread too much about myself but I wrote something almost identical to this: very low pressure, single stack pistol with 7 rounds of HE in it. It's overkill, but the use case in the story is that it's given to people who are expected to go up against what's basically the Thing but shyer and more realistically transmissive.
>>63037974I think it's an idea a lot of people have from time to time. The train of thought goes from "what if boolet but explodey?", then "what if bigger boolet exploded?". btw I haven't seen the topic of exploding handgun rounds used in fiction before except for the second book in the Sprawl trilogy, so I didn't steall your idea.
>>63037974Airburst rounds like in Elysium
>>63037059were the old dum-dum rounds explosive? used in the old days for big and dangerous game hunting.
>>62981340Probably smart sights. The price for laser rangefinders is coming down and it doesn't take much to calculate time2target.
>>63039498no, the initial Dum Dum bullets were from an arsenal by that name in India, and they were just soft lead bullets with an X carved into the tip. Later on it became just a common name for any expanding bullet like a hollow point.
>>63039772No.They were simply bullets without a full jacket.
>>63039539Smart sights are present tech. The oldest ones like Barrett's BARS are actually 2000s era.
>>63037434Ballistic soap, or gel? Calibrated gel expands about 3x further than human flesh, but it's used because it does so consistently enough to be analogous.
>>63039848Soap, they make it clear in the video that they are using ballistic soap, not gelatin.
>>63039870Soap is useless because it's inelastic and dramatically exaggerates temporary wound cavity size. But that's a bonus if you're a guntuber soifacing over a big hole in a block of the stuff for clicks.
>>63040056>Soap is uselessIt's pretty widely accepted as a simulant, it's just important to keep in mind what it is testing. When you take phrases like "ballistic soap is useless" as axiomatic, it reveals your ignorance. >dramatically exaggerates temporary wound cavity size.It doesn't exaggerate it, it just retains the temporary wound cavity. Given that the wound cavity here is literally blown out the back of the block, with some pulverized chunks of flesh be held into place by flaps of skin, the temporary cavity would be the same as the permanent cavity in this circumstance.
>>63040056>Soap is uselessdis nigga stinky
>>62998638You mean tow missiles. Yeah, it works because the missile flys fast enough not to get caught on shit and breakAnd it still gets caught on shit and breaks.
>>63040056Ballistic soap is used to show the temporary cavity. Gel is used for the permanent cavity.
>>63040056Soap forms part of the testing.The actual one is the 10% gel, which is like a 99% accurate representation of soft tissues.
>>63039539It's old tech. However they still require you to lase the target manually, while it's a more than easy to have a very predictable flat-shooting round with a tailored BDC reticle
>>63043815In this case it wouldn't matter, the soap got blown out the back, so the temporary cavity wasn't going to just settle back into place.
>>63046182That's correct.Does it say how much explosive was there? Being bullets, I don't expect it to have massive payloads (even Raufoss rounds have like 30 grains at best)
>>63029131>Israeli NG-5The Negev is a heavy piece of shit. Israel has always made shitty guns.
>>62981340Man, I feel terrible for not being born with the intellect to study and work on weapons designDoesn't help that I was born in a shithole country either
>>63046685>Does it say how much explosive was there?I don't think they did, but maybe I missed it when I re watched the video before making the initial post about explosive bullets in this thread. I think they just said it was 7.62x54r, which is why all my posts have been comparing cartridges by common bullet weights and assuming that is indicative of available volume for explosive filler. Given that the detonator mechanism will probably take up comparable space inside of the bullet, I suspect that there will be lower limits on what calibers/cartridges will be more powerful with an explosive payload than simply putting more powder behind the bullet. I have no idea exactly where those limits would be though.
The future advancements in combat rifles will all be in optics, magazines, and ammunition.
>>63017895why would it be hard to make a cycle counter?doesn't need to count the bullets in the mag just how many times the weapon fired since you reloaded
>>63047625That would cause problems if you load a mag that isn't totally full or you load a mag of non standard size.
>>63047653yea but it's something doable and you could reprogram itit would only be a problem if you don't know how many rounds you loaded and then you're not any worse than without it
>>63047605also electronic trigger and maybe the resurgence of bullpup rifles
>>63006314If you really wanted to, you could use shaped charges for AP ammo. Not even sure that'd be necessary, any decently sized explosive detonating on contact with a relatively lightweight ceramic/UHMWPE plate is probably going to cause severe deformation and/or internal damage behind it anyway
>>63037974>>63037989The Halo CE magnum canonically fires short HE .50 cal rounds, in the game it makes little white flashes when impacting surfaces that other guns don't. Haven't really seen the idea used much elsewhere, but it gets around for sure
>>63048542I wonder if the little spike that sets off the primary explosive could be made of tungsten and driven through body armor by the force of the explosion and the momentum of the bullet. Then again I suspect that the explosives going off against the targets body armor would probably have a decent chance of killing them even if they don't blow a hole in it.>>63048554Did they switch it to FMJ for the later games? That'd explain why it sucked after the first game.
>>63048554> fires short HE .50 cal rounds They're the same size as .500SW, definitely not short.>>63048625All Halo magnums are supposed to fire SAP-HE but only CE bothers with the flash on impact, though even that might be a bit undersized for the round it fires.
>>63048840The projectile is roughly the same size yes, but the case is notably shorter. Makes sense, as HE projectiles are not really velocity dependent, can get away with far less propellant. The dimensions in concept art look roughly similar to .50 GI with a slightly longer case
>>63048840>All Halo magnums are supposed to fire SAP-HEThen I guess it just sucked because the later games seemed to have a trend of making the guns more piss weak with every iteration. I never understood why they went from having such great feeling guns in CE to still being pretty good but a noticeable step down in 2 to pretty much everything feeling like it was a toy in 3.>even that might be a bit undersized for the round it fires.I suspect it is. If it is roughly the same size projectile as a .500S&W it would be more than 3x the size of the projectile that produced the exit wound from the pics, and that had explosives that were degraded from ~80 years of sitting in storage. >>63049118>HE projectiles are not really velocity dependent, can get away with far less propellant.It's been mentioned before that slower is actually better, since if the bullet is going too fast the explosion will travel out of the back of the target more quickly instead of just exploding inside. I suspect that if the bullet had somehow come to a stop inside the ballistic soap before detonating it might have blown it apart entirely. You can see the explosions continue for a good couple of feet behind the ballistic soap in some of the slow motion footage from the video, so obviously most of the explosion is not happening inside of the target. A slower projectile with explosives inside that aren't degraded from the better part of a century of sitting in storage would probably produce monstrous damage.
>>62981340
>>62991675I love how they use the flash for the replacement. Neat shot.
>>63021797I wish they would remaster this or do a sequel. It would suck compared to the original but still be good.
>>63029028>>63029757>>63032532>You cannot make a man portable, programmable airburst 40mm EFP grenade launcherAre you niggers fucking stupid?
>>63032679No, It didn't. Why lie so poorly that even a cursory youtube search proves you wrong?
>>63053424If we're talking about a PAYLOAD then yes. If we're talking about making a GL that shoots EFPs then no, it's fucking retarded.
>>63047596Thanks!
>>63048542Well, in theory RHA penetration is 5-8 diameters of the cone. So if we assume that we have a 7.62 bullet with a 1/4" shaped charge inside, we may assume a maximum penetration of 1 or 2 inches. Which is massive for a bullet weighting less than 200 grains. A 50 BMG load might even do 4 inches
>>63049897>>63049118>>63048840>>63048625>>63048554>>63048542WE WANT 8 GAUGE SHOTSHELLS. BECAUSE FUCK YOU, FUCK THE SIX GUYS BEHIND YOU, AND FUCK MY SHOULDER.
>>63049936It's probably some low-energy stuff like Comp B?
>>62981340BUMP
>>63053424NIGGER
>>63054478hypothetically could you use an MG3 loaded with 7.62 HEAT to just buzzsaw through the armor of an MBT? I feel like that wouldn't work for some reason, but I can't put my finger on it.
>>62982295What specifically does 14% less heat mean? Barrel temp will be 14% lower after some string of fire? 14% less heat transfer to the barrel per shot? Where does the energy that would otherwise heat the barrel then go?
>>62982285Source? Did he write up an article about this mock-up?
>>63054498The thread is autosaging, we will need a new thread soon.
>>63055641>Source? Did he write up an article about this mock-up?Don't know where the anon found it, but Nathaniel had a couple website/forums.https://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/Found some info on the bearcat here (Nathaniel is the admin, username Sturgeon, although the forum is pretty much dead and Nathaniel hasn't been active for some time)https://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/1632-designing-a-rifle-from-scratchish/
>>63055775>Nathaniel hasn't been active for some timeJust checked and although he hasn't posted since june, he last visited saturday (it seems, according to his profile).So if you want more info maybe you can tag him and ask.
>>63055775Thanks. Didn’t know that site existed. Was an interesting thread to read.The anon that posted right after you (or maybe it’s also you) posted what looks like a polymer cased neckless shrunken down 308. Image is called m80a1 bearcat or smth like that. Do you know where that’s from?
>>63054901Brother, an MBT has like 40 inches of RHA. But a 50 BMG HEAT penetrating 4 inches could fuck up a Bradley.
>>63055721OP here. I'll make a new one when it reaches max size.
>>63056939>an MBT has like 40 inches of RHA. Which is why I suggested using an MG-3. I was thinking that firing bullets that can penetrate 2 inches of armor at 1200rpm at the side or rear armor for maybe 20 seconds straight, preferably at close range, might just saw through the armor through accumulated damage. It wouldn't be an ideal way to take out a tank by any means, but I wonder if it'd work.>>63056948You probably wanna do it before this thread gets archived and link it here so people can easily jump over.
