Oh my God, I can't believe I used to think this lemon was cool. It actually sucks baboon balls in practice. 25mm airburst can't kill for peanuts unless you can get the round to pop within a meter of someone. You're shooting firecrackers. At that point, you're better off just shooting bullets and not having to deal with the ranging system + waiting a second for the round to reach the target. The ranging system gets thrown off by shrubs, trees, powerlines and chain-link fences. Fences will also catch the 25mm regardless half the time. Don't even get me started on the 5 round magazines. The only time an XM25 is decent is ironically at close range, in urban environments. You can just free aim the thing at a wall next to your target, or at the foot of a corner they're taking cover from. Shooting it though open windows is viable. But the thing is, you can already do this with 40mm launchers and enjoy a greater kill radius (6m) to boot. The XM25 still gets outclassed when you give it the home field advantage. You'd get the same utility it offers from underbarrel shotguns loaded with frag-12 rounds.Don't believe anyone who laments the XM25 being cancelled. It really was a bad idea.
Five years ago, I bought thirty thousand XM-25s off Aliexpress and my now ex-wife just fuckin' watched. Tomorrow, there will be no shortage of camping the burger town, no shortage of noob-tubing the dumb motherfucker with 300 ping still on a phone modem in 2013. I know you understand.
>>63062610yeah ok how come it was good in call of duty faggot you think they would just put it in the game if it wasnt good in real life at killing people get the fuck out of here
>>63062621All warfare is based on spamming grenades. For years, Requis' hypocrisy has made the world a blanket. The corrupt camp; while our brothers and sons dry hump the counter at Burger Town. But lag compensation cuts both ways. The bigger the dick, the more likely people will suck it, and when a nation cries for cum, the mtn dew MLG gamer spreads like a wildfire. The shitty youtube channel builds, devouring everything in its path. Our enemies believe that they alone dictate the K/D ratio, but all it takes is the tube of a single noob..
>>63062610It was always based and FPV drones has made it even more based
>>63062638The 25mm HEAT round was allegedly capable of defeating 50mm RHA. Would have made for one hell of a BTR killer.
>>63062610>Studies indicate that the XM25 with air burst rounds is 300 percent more effective at engaging the enemy than other squad-level grenade launchers.Soldiers loved it in Afghanistan apparently.>One platoon leader commented that engagements that would normally take 15 to 20 minutes were over in just a few minutes.
>>63062645Yeah but it's a moot point when you can pen russian IFVs with 7.62 desu
>>63062610>You'd get the same utility it offers from underbarrel shotguns loaded with frag-12 rounds.Those things were a giant scam and testing found they were no more effective than a plain old slug.
>>63062660Would have worked better against BMPs. I can't see 7.62 defeating 30mm+ RHA without using exceptional tungsten AP.
>>63062657It feels like there is some sort of global propaganda effort to discredit grenade launchers. Sometimes I see Ukrainian trench assaults and I think about how if just one guy pointed a bloop tube and shot it over the trench wall into the orc hive there would be no need for this slow, risky slicing-the-pie bullshit with AK-74s. Grenade launchers outclass and make rifles obsolete for everything except engagements in <5m, and yet it seems like they are mounted on rifles only 5% of the time
>>63062687Hostomel ambushed showed video proof that 7.62x54R penetrates the side of a BMD. Is the BMP really that much better?
>>63062695>BMDIf it's the side, that's like what, 10mm aluminum? That's ass armor dude. BMP is better especially if it has an uparmor kit.
>>63062693For sure, XM25 in trench warfare would wreck shit. Airburst rounds are nasty as fuck. Biggest problem with the XM25 is the X. It was experimental so the rounds apparently costed $1,000 a piece since they were not mass producing them.
>>63062693Double that for rifle grenades.
>>63062610>25mm airburst can't kill for peanuts unless you can get the round to pop within a meter of someone.thats all grenades. they say they have a 3-5 yard kill radius, but that's if you get lucky with frag. if the frag dispersion misses somebody, they only risk internal injury if they're practically standing on it.>The only time an XM25 is decent is ironically at close range, in urban environments.The complete opposite, the XM25 shot further and flatter than 40mm, removing user skill as a factor for putting ordnance into foxholes and windows at 300+ yards.
>>63062712Rifle grenades are pretty mid though. They're massively more awkward to use than a 40mm grenade which don't recoil much, can kill a lot of light armor and you can carry a shitload of rounds in a relatively small space, and rifle grenades also aren't significantly much smaller than a LAW or AT4 which can kill most anything short of an MBT, so they occupy a pointless middle ground. Certainly a modern Energa can penetrate much further than M433, but the AT4 doubles that again.
or just use a high velocity 40mm launcher like the chinks do
>>63062633>All warfare is based Agreed, and stopped reading there
>>63062759QLU-11? It's twice the weight, hence why normal armies do not use and carry around high velocity grenade launchers. Just use mortars for longer ranges. And it is supposed to be used like a 50-cal anti-material weapon, not for close range combat
>>63062813A mortar is a wildly different weapon to a point and shoot grenade launcher in terms of aim and time neededNothing stops you from shooting someone close with it either
>>63062695>Hostomel ambushed showed video proof that 7.62x54R penetrates the side of a BMD.Very true, some of them are only rated against normal 7.63x39 at 50-100 meters, meaning that when fired upon at 10-30 meters you're fucked - while the AP version penetrates from even longer ranges.You could take out these things with a .50 cal and autocannons would absolutely mulch them. They're THAT bad.
>>63062841There's technically nothing stopping you but trying to use a 33lbs+ loaded grenade launcher that only gets you 7 shots at a time inside a trench seems futile. An XM25 gives you 36 rounds in a much shorter package for that same total weight and a good bit of that weight can be distributed on your body since it would be spread over multiple magazines
>>63062610Various special forces tested that thing and the only thing they didn't like was that you have to give up one rifle from the (already small) squad. They wanted the rifle because their mission types require them to shoot people in various situations while the XM-25 is useful when a nade launcher is needed.It was especially effective in the middle east, removing towelheads in trenches, inside buildings etc. Performance was great but it didn't find its place as a mass produced weapon because of the initial price of rounds and the relatively limited use case.
>>63062610>you can already do this with 40mm launchers and enjoy a greater kill radius (6m) to boot.6m kill radius for 40mm is complete vaporware though. "Kill radius" in artillery terms is not what you may think about. Artillery men run blatant misdirection and false advertising.
What they need to do is make the rounds a little bigger than a 25mm but more compact than a 40mm so you can fit as many rounds as possible. Simplify it and make it cheaper by getting rid of the retarded laser and rangefinding shit and give it the standard rifle optic. Instead of thinking about making an awkward bulky grenade launcher turret/anti-material sniper or a tiny single-shot launcher, think about making a rifle an infantryman can carry around that blows shit up.I just found out Barrett is apparently thinking the exact same thing as mehttps://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/barrett-unveils-new-ssrs-30mm-automatic-grenade-launcher-for-us-armys-pgs-program
>>63062713Here's the thing. If I see someone at 300m, I can shoot them. I can shoot them faster than with the xm25, even if it's obscuring terrain. It's just point and shoot, with a slight lead, and they're dead. With the xm25, you need to aim at their feet, or use the rangefinder and wait for the scope to do its thing. Both methods take more time and leave more room for error than just shooting a bullet. The bullet doesn't take more than a second to reach its target and let's you assess the shot immediately. Half the time you won't kill in one shot with 25mm, which is bad when your mag is 5 rounds. If you undershoot and miss, you've just made a cloud that obscures your target. And if your target has a tree or set of powerlines in the way, the xm25 will not he able to see through it properly to get you the ranging you need to land a 25mm firecracker within 1m of your target.Trust me on this, you're better off with a rifle. There is much more skill involved in making the xm25 work than with a rifle.
>>63062633what the fuck did I just read. Is there some "random" button on AI text generators, which produces such blabbery?
>>63062746those just sound like issues with doctrine and how current models are designed
>>63062928I think the solution is to upscale the rounds and firing platform towards light AT caliber, recoilless rifles. Missing by a few meters isn't an issue with an 80mm HE rocket. Israel also has some new mini spike launchers that fire guided HE missiles out to 4km, so you can't miss.
>>63062932you can point and shoot a grenade launcher just as easily & quickly as a rifle..
>>63063018>I think the solution is to upscale the rounds and firing platform towards light AT caliber, recoilless rifles.Ok, now carry 30+ rounds for it...
>>63062693You'd think that all these FPV drones, equipped would do a better job than sending squishy infantry into a hostile trench.
>>63063071Trenches have the heaviest electronic defenses and using drones inside tunnels is very difficult if the builder isn't retarded
>>63063054A guy with a few AP missiles in the right place can kill scores of infantry from 2km+ away. It's more than what you'd be able to do with an XM25 at the same distance, which is nothing.
>>63063021At CQB ranges, yeah.
>>63063144>max range 2500 meters>speed 200 meters per secondlol
>>63063166How fast is your guided, man portable missile?
>>63063144>A guy with a few AP missiles in the right place can kill scores of infantry from 2km+ away. It's more than what you'd be able to do with an XM25 at the same distance, which is nothing.Again, try carrying 30 rounds of it..
>>63062610if it fired dumb grenades it would be a great idea
>>63063193Again, try carrying 30 dildos. What's that gonna do for you, besides emulate the experience of having some of those 25mm rounds that are inferior to bullets?
>>63063018You mean like the Swichblade-300 ????
>>63063240Cope and seethe, 80 mm dildo lover. Unlike you, a lover of big girth, others manage to survive with smaller options and achieve more in life/combat.
>>63062621Didn't CoD add that shitty stockless M16 used in Bradleys before the M4 made it completely redundant?
>>63063250Switchblade isn't that great unless you know there's enemies at your destination. It's a non-line of sight weapon. You fly it around while looking for something to target. The thing Israel created is a line of sight weapon with an additional fire and forget mode. The user finds the target before they fire. Then they guide the missile or set it to seek the target on its own.
>>63063256I'm not saying the xm25 can't work. Just that a rifle or better yet an LMG is superior most of the time. For the times when an xm25 beats a rifle, better options exist. 40mm, RPGs, etc.
>>63062932You critique is right when applied to OICW that tried to replace bullets with grenades. It's all like you say.But XM25 was downgraded to only mission of counterdefildade fire. And for shooting against cover precise airburst grenades are vastly superior than bullets.Main problem I see that multishot grenadr launcher doesn't work. It's too big and bulky for combi weapon with rifle. When standalone it removes rifle and grenader needs rifle. It should be single shoot under barrel grenade launcher. Sure it less grenade launcheing firepower but this retainse rifle and better fits mission "you need grenade launcher sometimes".
>>63062928>Simplify it and make it cheaper by getting rid of the retarded laser and rangefinding shitThis shit is greatly improving effectiveness of the grenades. First grenades have rainbow trajectory. 100 m/s velocity? At 100 meters distance it's 4.5 meters drop, at 200 meters it's 20 meters drop. Hitting targets eyeballing distance is tricky.2. You give up precision airburst and this capability is very userfull to negate many types of cover.
>25mm airburst can't kill for peanuts unless you can get the round to pop within a meter of someone5,56 can't kill if it flies within a meter of someone, I'd say the 25mm is still better.
>>63062610>same shitty bait as usualGet new material, faggot
>>63063432You get 30 rounds of 5.56mm per mag.
>>63063286I am going to go even harder in the opposite direction and just say it. Thrown explosives are so overpowered in warfare that you could probably replace every XM7 with an XM25 and they would probably be even more effective than they were before (if they never ran out of ammo or into logistics problems which they obviously would very quickly if this hypothetical was real).Shooting potshots at the enemy or sitting on an LMG keeping the enemy's heads down is honestly kind of retarded when you can just blow all of the enemies up by simply figuring out how far away they are an pointing in their general direction, and I think the military is starting to pick up on that fact
>>63063446I created this thread independently. It's my first time talking about it. I felt the need to make the thread after I realised how bad the XM25 was.
>>63063567Sweet, 29 rounds to shoot into the rocks that are 10 meters away from him and 1 to graze their arm, versus using 1 out of my 5 available rounds to send him and all of his nearby battle buddies to orbit
>>63063570You're talking about artillery, which is viable because it uses 155mm shells that have humongous kill radii. Airbursting 25mm rounds would be great if they killed everything within 50m, but they don't.
>>63063595They don't have to kill everything within 50 meters to launch shrapnel into their bodies and make them casualties. Even injuring people within 5 meters would be 1000x more effective in winning a fight than a bullet which must directly hit someone to do anything
>>63063582You'd think so, but in practise it's more like 2 rounds to kill dudes with armor, plus the one round you waste because of random BS with the targeting process. So that's like 1.5 enemies killed per mag. Enemies get engaged when they've been seen, so rifles work great on them most of the time.
>>63063606Nobody the U.S. will attack with grenade launchers will ever wear armor, let's be real. And also I thought this was the whole point of moving up to 30mm for the grenade launcher program next year. To make them deadlier
>>63062937its memed from one of the COD modern warfare campaign speeches by the primary antagonist
>>63063605An xm25 operator would only be scoring injuries faster than someone with a gun in niche cases. The 25mm rounds are slow, need careful aiming because of the low mag capacity, and the user needs to reload frequently even if they are accurate. There comes a point where you have to wonder if some MG bursts would do the job better.
>>63063614>moving up to 30mm for the grenade launcher program next year. To make them deadlierIf that's what I think it is, it's not just moving up to 30mm, but removing the airburst mechanism and relying on smart scopes to get the rounds to their target. The 30mm rounds should have a lot more explosive power.
>>63063614>Nobody the U.S. will attack with grenade launchers will ever wear armor, let's be real.What about China? And in Ukraine there's a ton of people on both sides wearing basic flak vests to protect themselves from artillery and drones.
>>63063633>an xm25 operator would only be scoring injuries faster than someone with a gun in niche cases.Bullets can go around bunker walls?>>63063633>the 25mm rounds are slow, need careful aiming because of the low mag capacity, and the user needs to reload frequently even if they are accurate.Throughout most of history armies used muzzle loaders. Turns out it doesn't matter that it takes practically a minute to shoot one shot if you equip people with an absurd number of them and shoot the rest of them while the first guys are reloading. Same thing happens in modern warfare. A grenadier doesn't just sit there reloading and waiting to get shot, someone is always covering someone else. Needing to reload more frequently is a small price to pay for your bullets being able to fucking explode in all directions lmao. Much more useful
>>63063644>ChinaNever going to happen>flak vestsHave fun shooting back or being a useful combatant in general after several grenade fragments just exploded in your face. Flak vests are to save your life, not make you win wars
>>63062937To those who are based no explanation is necessary. To those who are cringe no explanation is possible.
>>63063144>comparing grenade launchers to missile launchers
>>63063633>need careful aimingwhat do you think the laser rangefinder and the literal aimbot scope are for, wisest kid on the shortbus?
>>63062687kek you think it's really 30mm RHA?
>>63062932Good clouds are in your opponent's face, so you can see more yardage between you than the enemy, and are a positive visual marker for friendlies.
>>63063814Good clouds are made out of your opponent's face, so you don't see them ever again.
>>63063837Fallujah at night,terrorist fighter becomes cloud.No more Mike Balasharand thus no more bootleg porn dvds.The winds of combat blow.
>>63063570Any experience with this? LIG Nex1's 40mm Mini-Missilehttps://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/cost-effective-firepower-lig-nex1s-40mm-mini-missile-offers-versatility-for-infantry-and-drones-at-kadex-2024
>>63062638oh man, imagine an XM25 with a fire control package that could take enemy location data from loitering dronessick
>>63064259integrate the drones' feed on a HUD integraded in the team leader's helmet and you get almost literally the same gear from Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
>>63064399Cut out the middleman and deploy a 5-10kg cargo drone with a gyrojet-style heavy machine gun.
>>63064411>gyrojet-styleyou had me until thereno thanks bro
>>63064423You can't mount a normal heavy machine gun on a drone because it can't absorb the recoil, but gyrojets don't have recoil so it's not a problem. Gyrojets do have a minimum effective range, but that's not a problem for a drone because it never gets that close to the target.
>>63064438why not just give it something like a GAU19 but with a fuckoff huge muzzle break for each barrel, or alternatively just go for a more sensible route and give it a bunch of recoilless rifles, until somebody comes up with an autoloading recoilless rifle?
>>63064473Because of weight.
>>63064475I call bullshitif a drone can carry an HMG equivalent gyrojet gun and enough ammo to make sense mounting it on a drone, surely it would be able to carry the weight of three or so loaded recoilless rifles or even ATGMs
>>63064487In a gyrojet system the breech and barrel are not pressure bearing components, so they can be built much lighter than a conventional gun and can even be perforated to save even more weight. The only part that needs to be heavy is the rocket casing, which doubles as the projectile. The ammunition would weigh about the same but everything else could be made ultralight.
>>63064487>HMG equivalent gyrojet gunlmao where the fuck do you retards come from
>>63064520okay, now tell class which parts of a recoilles rifle are pressure bearing, even more so if it's something disposable like an AT4>>63064523ask >>63064411, that's his idea, not mine. nigger
>>63064537The barrel part. A recoilless rifle is not a rocket launcher.
>>63064542replace the AT4s with LAWs then. my point still stands - if a drone can carry your hypothetical meme gyrojet HMG loadout, it can also carry other munitions that on top of being more effective under most metrics would also be completely off the shelf with all that it implies
>>63064523The western lands where white men dwell. Maybe you have to understand basic mechanics to get it.
>>63064570You don't even know how a recoilless rifle works, my dude. You need to educate yourself.
>>63064577you're not refuting my point either but whatever
>>63064591You don't have a point. You have vibes based on a wrong understanding of basic weapons' physics. If you learn a little about weapons instead of vibing you will understand how you are incorrect.
>>63063152a 40x53mm grenade has a muzzle velocity of 240 m/sYou are saying you can't point and shoot at a target thats 300 meters out?sounds like a skill issue, not a physics issue
>>63062687You are forgetting that the Russian vehicle producers pockets the cash for armor and used sheet metal and cardboard.
>this thing everyone wants is a bad ideano (You) for you. the XM25 was constrained by tech and the ammo size. the troops loved it right up until it started exploding in their face.
>>63064637>until it started exploding in their face.qrd?
>>63064637Did it ever actually explode in someone's face, or were people just worried that a double-feed could, theoretically, cause it to do that?
>>63062617Never stop, Shepherd-poster
>>63063266fuck you nigger
>>63064688From what I remember there was once case but it happened after the guy removed all of the plastic safety caps that were designed to stop it from exploding in his face.
>>63064740>but it happened after the guy removed all of the plastic safety caps that were designed to stop it from exploding in his faceAh, the old "disable all these pesky safety features" maneuver. Truly an eternal classic.
>>63064740I can think of some other things that aren't very safe when you remove the plastic safety cap.
>>63064607see>would also be completely off the shelfthis is the part where people stop wasting time with you and just tell you to kill yourself
>>63063689What does RPG stand for?
>>63065707ruchnoy protivotankovy granatomyot
>>63063663>China>Never going to happenIt's going to happen within the next 5 years.
>>63062937Our so-called text generators... prostituted us to the West. Destroyed our cock... our balls... our cringe. Our basedness has been spilled on our soil... My hands... on THEIR ass... THEY are the cringe. All sussy bakka forces will leave Russia immediately... or the eggs will be measured.
