When the snow falls and the yeti calls, where will you hide edition>New month's challengeJack O lantern, draw the best jack o lantern on a B8, 7 yards. Basically how many shots can you go without having a flier, be artistic.Post "hg-qual-10-25" with the imageGuide: https://files.catbox.moe/9g5sv2.pdfPastebin: https://pastebin.com/gs6mLNikPrevious: >>64440049
Anyone able to id the optic here? Definitely an enclosed emitter, perhaps the Aimpoint model on the new Glock COA's
>>64449028Last thread >>64447549 asked for proof of collateral damage when people use FMJ, here is an article about a shooting that happened right next door to my old barber in Detroit where a guy shot a gunman through their head and it killed another innocent man with a single shot. Use a quality hollowpoint like a speer gold dot 124gr +p or Federal HST 124gr +p after function checking ~100 rounds run reliably in your individual pistol with it's individual tolerances. It may not just save your own life, but also the life of another. https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2025/08/07/family-of-man-killed-at-detroit-lions-tailgate-in-eastern-market-sues-event-organizers-security-company/Also if you want your hair cut by a clinically insane man wearing no less than 4 turquoise rings who rants about the government while waving a straight razor around your neck, check out Starlight barbers. It's like a dinner and a show type of thing, and a damn good haircut too.
>>64449037acro p2
Also Arex anon I do remember you, you were the HD guy right? Lets go shoot sometime, I'll post when I'm available once I get confirmation of if I can pick up a shift or not, we can talk about transport jobs.
I'm new to handguns, and after a few months shooting rentals and looking at shit I sprung on a CZ 75BD as my first pistol. Got it for home defense, as most of what I have is long guns in big boy calibers that aren't ideal for home defense, but also got it to have another fun to shoot (that's substantially cheaper to feed). Is there anything I should know or look out for in the long term, maintenance wise? In terms of modding it I might get an optic later, but am not overly worried about adding a bunch of shit to it.Also, what type of ammo should I feed it with? I regularly hear some ammo from some manufacturers don't play well with all-metal guns like this (though that was more in reference to 1911s), and I've also seen advice that it's better to practice with self defense loads instead of cheaper FMJ, as well as conflicting advice on what is the better self defense round (heftier bullet vs higher velocity).Sorry for the question dump but I figure it helps the new thread have some conversation material (waited for the new thread to post).
>>64449058The expansion of hollowpoints isn't just good for preventing collateral, it also helps eliminate your target. This patient of mine, also in Detroit funny enough, got shot with what appears to be a 45acp FMJ given it's size. The bullet is literally sitting against his pulmonary and decending aortas, meaning just 1mm of expansion would have killed him. This fucker bullied our 60 year old secretary until she had to leave the desk and come to us near tears, and I regret the shooter didn't use a quality hollowpoint. Hopefully the next guy does, because with how poisonous this guy was to be around there will be a next time he gets shot in the great city of Detroit.
>Federal HST 124gr +pThat'll tunnel through your target along with every other cartridge that meets the FBI standard for penetration>[Palmer] reportedly tried to de-escalate the situationSo he involved himself during an armed assault, couldn't be helped regardless of your ammunition choice>>64449080Ty
>>6444911412-18 inches of gel does not mean 12-18 inches of penetration in a human
>>64449114Gel penetration =/= to going through two layers of skull with brain inbetween, but nice cope"Actually the thing you just showed me I said evidence of doesn't exist doesn't matter anyways. And even if it did matter it's totally ok that I was wrong because that other guy shouldn't even have been there"Stop coping and incorporate this new to you information into your knowledge base. Your life will be much better once you learn to accept and then incorporate new information you don't like or want to agree with.Here is a pic of the bullet laying against both the left pulmonary artery and decending aorta. I have now shown you the article of an event and provided photo evidence of how expansion can and does matter for lethailty. The streaking is from beam hardening artifact since the bullet is made of very dense lead, which is why we tell patients to remove jewelry and jeans (button and zipper) ect. Before their scans. It obscurs the anatomy otherwise.
>>64449141Not him but maybe you want to circle the bullet and arteries.I'd wager few people here are trained in radiology or how to interpret imaging for anatomy and foreign objects.
>>64449110Am I just retarded or is there absolutely no way under any circumstances someone shot directly with .45 ACP FMJ is having it stop anywhere near the pulmonary artery? It's going to zip straight through the chest and out the other side.Either he was shot through a significant barrier, or that's not a .45 ACP. Either way a hollowpoint would have likely resulted in less penetration.
>>64449149Good idea.Worth noting internal images of the body are flipped left to right, so the left pulmonary labeled is on the right side of the picture.The pulmonary artery and decending aorta have every drop of blood in your body pumped through them in roughly 80 seconds. Pulmonaries are the path from your heart to your lungs, and once that blood is oxygenated your body pumps it through your body via the decending aorta. If pierced you bleed out and die before you could even walk from the parkinglot to the ER entrance.
It has been seven days since I ordered by Glock 26
>>64449187You're not retarded, you just haven't worked in trauma centers in major cities where you see this shit all the time. Here's a guy who got shot in the face with birdshot (no idea what gauge shotgun) and came strolling on into my CT room years later because he had a headache. You literally wouldn't have known he was shot if you looked at his face. He forgot his key and was trying to break into his own house through the window one night when his next door neighbor came out and shot him thinking he was a burglar. A great case for why you should have a WML, and never use birdshot for anything but birds.A great number of folks over estimate how much damage handgun rounds do to people. Bullets do weird whacky shit man, carrying hollow points helps you maximize your chances of eliminating your target. Using a rifle with a WML for home defense is also a great take away lesson.
>>64449187>Either he was shot through a significant barrier, or that's not a .45 ACP. Either way a hollowpoint would have likely resulted in less penetration.We have tools on the scanner to measure objects for cancers and cyst and such and used those to measure the bullet at the time. It matched about what a 45acp bullet should be, but this was 2 years ago and I don't have any pictures of those measurements so you're either going to have to measure the ribs and vertebrae and then based on that measurement and the average size of those pieces of anatomy get a measure of the bullet yourself, or just trust me on this one. Here is another internal picture of the same patient below the bullet if you want to put in your own legwork. I put in enough leg work drawing diagrams and finding articles of FMJ overpenetration causing a death only for folks to go "nuh uh", so this will be my last post on the subject. It's worth noting that there are bullet fragments seen around the patient's right scapula seen here >>64449110 (remember, in radiology anatomy is flipped left/right) so as to your barrier penetration that could be the cause. Also worth noting is that the bullet is now facing the direction it entered, meaning it tumbled a bunch after impact. Quality hollow points are designed to penetrate things like auto glass and still travel through a persons arm and chest to the heart.Tl;dr for all of this is just buy some goddamn hollow points and make sure they work with your gun and be done with it.
>>64449217WML also look nice and help balance your handgun making follow up shots faster by reducing muzzle flip. If you're going to ignore my advice to use a rifle with a WML, at least get one for your HD weapon of choice
>>64449110looks like someone shot this guy in minecraft
>>64449110>>64449141>>64449189>>64449217>>64449278Thanks for the neat posts, unfortunately the revolving door of nuh-uh types tends to eventually wear down anybody willing to effort post on terminal ballistics>>64449114Based off autopsy results from the wolberg study you would expect that round to penetrate around 9" on a shot through the chest assuming no bones are hit and less if they are. This is why there is a 12" MINIMUM with a preference for more, gel is an average of tissue densities and doesn't even begin to address bone.
>>64449291Serious question 509C anon, I assume you have holsters that can take that combo?Also doesn't the muzzle blast affect the light?
>>64449089Honest question, how do you spend $500 on something without doing basically any research on it beforehand?
>>64449380I carry with an insane kydex creations holster, which offers light bearing holsters for just about every combo of light and handgun on the market. Their prices are a bit steeper and their wait times a little longer than the big boys like (rip) T-Rex Arms or Vedder or whoevever else, but the actual ownership expirence has been great. As for muzzle blast, you do get carbon caked on which after 15-16k rounds is rather permanent. Some folks like to wrap their muzzle lights in electrical tape for that reason, you can just tear it off and its like new underneath. I just see it as part of the charm of honest finish wear. Any name brand WML can take the recoil of muzzle blast, that's what you're paying for, but the cheaper chinese ones often lie about their lumens so spending ~$100 on a streamlight can be worth it if you're not on a super tight budget.>>64449327Thanks, I'm glad someone enjoyed them. Here's some free feet pics and a book reccomendation.
>>644490899mm range loads, like basic 115 gr differ greatly from self defense loads. But you can buy 9mm practice ammo that’s loaded hot like 9mm NATO (what the CZ-75 is made for) and 9mm +P (a little hotter than NATO). My favorite practice ammo for 9mm is Winchester Service Grade which is some of the hottest range ammo I have ever seen, it’s also relatively cheap at 22-25 cpr. Just a few cents more than basic 115 gr.It’s very stout. I shoot nothing but Service Grade actually.
>>64449441Also I would recommend using a 9mm +P recoil spring with it
the gun community collectively decided to do a retard and adopt optics which don't do anything at self defense ranges but ignore actually useful things like mechanisms that reduce bore axis and reduce time to follow up shots like af-speedlockBen Stoeger has a bazillion videos on glocks but doesn't have a single video on the arsenal strike one or archon type b/d, does that make any sense?
>>64449189Don't you think that if a 45acp FMJ just barely got deep enough to reach those major blood vessels, if it was a hollow point, that went from a frontal area of .45 to .65 -.80 as is common with good hollow points in 45 caliber, it wouldn't have gotten deep enough to even influence those major blood vessels? Expansion is good in addition to penetration, but if a solid is just barely getting where it needs to go in order to drop someone quickly, it doesn't seem worth it, unless it went through a barrier like that one anon said and slowed down to get where it got. Even if that were the case, hollow points tend to weigh less so if it had gone through a barrier it wouldn't have done any better as it probably would have damaged to nose and stopped it from expanding and due to the lighter weight, would have penetrated even less than the FMJ.
>>64449441Would you say that Win service grade 9mm is better than Federal American Eagle?
>>64449441I like to carry the Service Grade 380 ammo. Spicy Flat nose FMJ fucks.
>>64449508They are not comparable.
>>64449419I did, I guess to be more specific1) are trigger springs and slide stops something I really need to have spares for, or will there be signs of wear2) There's a lot of autism about ammo, as seen above. For type I guess the answer from that convo is JHP over higher velocity, but then there's my question about manufacturers and whether or not some ammo won't play nice with my all-steel gun.I just want to poll random peoples' opinions, and do it here since it's a random thing to ask people at work about. Can't go to the range rn because of a recent and stupid hand injury, and my friends are noguns who don't know.>inb4 people are biasedprobably less so that blogposts and articles that are probably sponsored.>>64449441>>64449445advice like this.Like obviously I'll take opinions people online with a grain of salt, but I still like hearing what other people have experienced.
>>64449508As far as I understand and can tell, Win Service Grade is the same ammo that Winchester/Olins Corp is providing to the U.S. Military but Service Grade doesn’t go through US Mil QC checks. It has sealant on the case mouth and primer, like military ammo, the headstamp is identical to some U.S. military reject ammo I bought.
>>64449082>modern gunsplease stop
>>64449509I haven’t tried any other service grade caliber so I cannot attest to them. It’s hotter than normal .380?
>>64449122>>64449141>>64449327It was 12 inches of penetration after already piercing two wallboards and there is no hollow point exception to the fourth rule of gun safety: be sure of your target and what is behind it
>>64449538It's about on par with others power wise, but the service grade stuff has sealant and flat nose bullets in 380 so it is probably the best ammo for pocket 380s like the Bodyguard 2 or LCP Max to be carried with.
>>64449589>fourth rule of gun safety: be sure of your target and what is behind itRemember folks, when a gunman draws on you, just let him shoot you. It's much safer for everyone that way according to our good friends at the NRA and their rules which can NEVER have exceptions. Don't question the rules, don't question the private jets, don't question the NRA.
>>64449589>TWO! COUNT EM! TWO! dry wall boards!
>>64449604The type of ammo was never even specified in that article. I'm assuming that you're assuming it was FMJ because that's the stereotypical choice of ammo for melanin individuals
>>64449664All I'm arguing is that you must accept the non-zero chance of over penetration the same way you accept the possibility of missing when you commit to firing
>>64449694Got any fired from a .44 mag?
>>64449732Ne
>>64449743Damn that sucks.44 is an absolute beast of a round especially when shot from a 6 inch barrel.I've seen some gel targets get their heads blown clean off
>>64449028>shield 2.0 .40>shield 45Anyone have either or both of these? How are they? Been eyeballing them
>>64449811Why no 9mm Shield?I did buy a .40 M&P trade in, but thats a full size
>>64449855Because i already got a shield plus
>>64449811I think Gunsam on youtube recently got a shield 45 and did a video on it.
>>64449811I have the 45 older version (no 2.0 on slide), it's really good on paper, small and light for being 45, I carry it sometimes, but it's not my favorite for two reasons - s&w slide stop/release, too hard to release, and grip texture, too sharp and rough. I tried hockey tape, it wears off after a day, hogue grip condom made it too thick, but is probably best.
>>64449089don't dry fire it without a good snap cap, the firing pin is retained by that roll pin you see in the slide and if you spent lots of time dry firing eventually the harder firing pin will fuck up the roll pin and it could get stuck in the forward position.
>>64449913If that happens, the next time you use the slide release it'll go brrrrrt.
>>64449913I've heard about that, but I've also heard conflicting shit about it, like this was only a problem with the P-01 (which, idfk how it isn't a problem with the BD then because aren't they the same internals?); I was going to try making one of those DIY hot glue snap caps from a casing I kept when shooting rentals (anyone know what size the decapping rod is for 9mm) but I will splurge on a snap cap if I need to. The O-ring trick seems sketchy to me.
>>64449926maybe slamming it forward will dislodge the pin and not set off the primer but when it happened to my gun i took it apart and changed out the pin and roll pin right away. >>64449932it happened with my SP-01, after I repaired it I started using an Azoom snap cap that has the little rubberized plastic fake primer and it's been okay since. I know they make a fancier one with a spring and brass fake primer as well.
>>64449913It does what? That reads like a curio&relic problem. Did they try fixing their design?
>>64449217>overestimate how much damage handgun rounds do9mm sissies in shambles. 40 and 45 kings vindicated.
>>64449952The older CZ75's don't have that problem, because the firing pin block (with the mentioned roll pin) was only added in the mid-90s with the CZ75 B-version
>>64449979That's worse, surely it just took that much dry firing that pistols made in mid 90s that saw the heaviest wear only started to fail now, after 30 years of use?
I'm loving the R Lee Ermey Glock commericials, did any anon see those on TV back in the day?
I carry FMJ because I'm more worried about having to shoot through a windshield or car door than it maybe expanding an extra .02 mm or whatever
What's a fair price for a USP Expert in .45 ACP? Saw one in pretty nice shape at my LGS for ~$850 and since I can't get a Tactical, this would be the next best thing.
>>64449028What?
>>64449217>He forgot his key and was trying to break into his own house through the window one night when his next door neighbor came out and shot him thinking he was a burglar. A great case for why you should have a WMLare you actually retarded? you shouldn't shoot much less draw if you don't have PID. also that neighbor should've minded his own business in the first place. i'd kick that neighbors ass
>>64450084>not TMJhave fun with lead poisoning
>>64449217>carrying hollow points helps you maximize your chances of eliminating your targetliterally doesn't matter with handgun cartridges in terms of incapacitation, it's only used to prevent overpenetration
>>64450133There’s a whole lot of quantitive evidence that disproves that. Do you think hunters hunt with FMJ?
i only shoot partial metal jackets
>>64450139>huntersI said handgun cartridges retard. there's not a difference for 45, 40, 9, 380, etc
>>64450139>There’s a whole lot of quantitive evidence that disproves that.care to post any
>>64450103Great price. Has the full match kit, the tactical only has the trigger IIRC. Only issue is threaded barrels
>>64450152Any ballistics test. Anecdotes from medical professionals who have seen GSWs.
>>64449765Does sound pretty cool, anon
>>64450150Wound tracks with expanding ammunition do a lot more damage, to the point that it’s seen as inhumane to hunt with non expanding ammunition. Why would an expanding pistol caliber be different? Round ball vs a black talon with sharp pedals.
>>64450139>>64450133Meat target always suffered more from bullets that expand, but typically only from bullets that expand due to flying fast, not ones that expand even though they fly slowly. In Strasbourg goats, super fast lightweight expanding and fragmenting bullets did best, balls did worst.
>>64450162'medical professionals' can't tell the difference in wounding between handgun cartridges themselves retard, also time to incapacitation isn't the same thing as subjective "he looks hurt", case in point you can shoot someone with 10s of rounds of handgun ammo, even 45 acp, and it might not incapacitate them but then you can look at wounding later and say retarded shit like "my anecdotal opinion...":https://youtu.be/pdjcYjSsIok?t=51fuck off 'urm aktually' redditor
>>64450162again, care to post any?
>>64450139Most hunters that shoot dangerous game use solids and most handgun hunters use hard cast lead. Ask anyone that's been on a safari what bullets they use and unless they are shooting Gazelle or something, they are using solids.
>>64450179Look at any ballistics test.
>>64450173>Why would an expanding pistol caliber be different?maybe instead of inferring this and then claiming you know what you're talking about, you should learn about the differences in terminal ballistics between rifle and handgun ammo, fucking retard>>64450175>fast things do more damage than slow thingsthat's cool, it's almost as if I'm discussing handgun cartridges that move much slower than rifle rounds. thanks for making my point.
>>64450177> and say retarded shit like "my anecdotal opinion...":>posts a anecdote
>>64450192You can look at ballistics tests done with FMJ rounds compared to JHP and see a difference in wound tracks.
>>64450185Jello does not simulate flesh, it simulates the average density of tissues in the human body to test whether or not a hollow point bullet will expand and to have a consistent testing medium to measure penetration. Only the smoothest of smooth brains shoot gel and them marvel at the temporary cavity. Gel tears much MUCH more easily than living tissues.
>>64450199
>>64450192There are handgun rounds that fly 1400 fps and ones that only make 900 fps. First kind expand all reluctant hollow points, second kind doesn't, unless it's a super special design. It just recently dawned on me that damage comes from velocity, not expansion. You can send a soft cheat bullet with some elastomer filling that helps it expand, but it doesn't actually do anything expect impress gel shooters.
>>64450219*except impress
>>64450210If gel tears much easily, then what does that say about FMJ that does not tear or create anything but a straight path with its smooth round nose.
>>64450195that's not anecdotal evidence. how retarded are you people? an anecdote is a personal recounting, like a doctor saying that they see a trend in woundingwhat I linked would be a case study
>>64450192I didn't really want to read truism like rifle>pistol, rather, question I have was, and to my knowledge this is untested, if you shoot deeply subsonic pistol round, like 380 ACP or 45 ACP, does it make much difference to use expanding bullet?
>>64450238A case study of a single event
I love shooting my handguns, cleaning them, looking at anon's handguns, and chatting about handguns with my friends here at /hg/
>>64450199as anon said gel doesn't simulate actual tissue. also these temporary wound cavities you see in handgun rounds don't do anything, so you can expand issue but it's elastic so it'll reshape. finally, the small differences in diameter that you do observe don't do anything, we know this because the differences between 45 acp and 9mm are insignificant as well
>>64450219>1400 fpsit takes higher velocities for wounding mechanisms to actually do anything due to tissue elasticity, handguns are garbage and hollowpoints don't do anything significant except stop the bullet in tissue
>>64450243ok, so you admit you're wrong and retarded because you don't know the definitions of basic scientific terms. thanks for playing, go make up some more stories elsewhere and pretend hollowpoints in handguns actually do anything
>>64450243thats literally what a case study is retard, a single case
>>64450269>this one time a cop shot a guy a lot of times is a case study >no not those military records of soldiers being shot dozens of times by rifles, that doesn’t count
>>64450249you'd think anons on /hg/ would know the barest minimum about terminal ballistic myths but no, we've know all this shit for decades but it just keeps being perpetuated because anons want to pretend their handgun is anything but a glorified peashooter
>>64450277cool, care to link those records of soldiers getting shot dozens (that wasn't an exaggeration in this case) of times with hollow point ammunition?and I mean literal dozens, at least more than 12 times with hollow point rifle ammoi'll be waiting here
>>64450277>>64450290also they can't be immediately incapacitated, they have to keep engaging in a firefight while having been shot this many times, because that's the evidence I provided. surely you can show this
>>64450264Still, I want to call into question the implicit statement pervading the industry right now: "If a bullet has expanded during gel testing, that means, it has done a lot of damage". This is backwards. Damage that bullet does the meat target is based on the velocity, pressure and forces involved. If the amount of damage was high, so high that metal bullet itself experiences deformation, it will also expand. But, if photo of mushroomed bullet is all you need to get hype and sales, ammo manufacturers get an incentive to cheat - make cavity deeper, make lead softer, plate instead of jacket, cut deeper grooves. You know, modern bullet design. That makes bullet look like a cute and sharp mushroom, even if it merely makes a hole. On another note I finally understand why XTP exists and why it's a superior design that no one wants to use.
>>64450290>>64450297https://taskandpurpose.com/news/mike-day-navy-seal-iraq/16 GSWs from rifles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Benavidez37 different wounds from rifles, bayonets and shrapnel
>>64450219Velocity only matter when the bullets impact at over 2000fps or are extremely large like a shotgun slug. Anything less than that is only damaging what it directly crushes with its meplate.With handguns, you must prioritize penetration. If you only just make minimum acceptable penetration with solids or even dont quite make it, stick with those solids. (22lr-32acp as well as standard pressure 38 special and short barrel 380s live here. 380 is borderline.)If you have more than enough penetration, start using expanding bullets that dont expand a whole lot like Critical Duty or maybe XTPs if your load can reliably expand them. (38 special+P, 32H&R, and 380 are here) If you still have plenty of penetration, use hollow points that expand even larger larger like HSTs and similar premium hollow points. (Most duty cartridges live here 9mm all the way through to 10mm-357 mag.) 44mag and up is more for animal defense and for that you should really be using solids no matter what, unless you are more likely to need to shoot a snake or coyote than a cougar or bear. If that is the case, why are you carrying a 44mag? Just use a 9mm.
>>64450311>FMJsthose weren't hollow points but you can try again, also it's likely that a lot of the bullets that penetrated caught the plate first and therefore didn't have full ballistic effect.as I said, try again. if you can genuinely find a case involving rifle ammo and hollow points, I'll concede, but I don't think you can
>>64450227The reason for that is because round nose bullets have a TINY meplate and because hollow point expend a lot of their energy into the gel as they expand. That energy is not enough to exceed the elasticity of living flesh and tear it, but it does tear gel. If you use solids, use flat nose FMJ or WFN hard cast lead.
>>64450323>Velocity only matter when the bullets impact at over 2000fpsNope, it matters all the way from 0 fps, until a certain velocity bullet won't even penetrate denim.
>>64450345And there is absolutely no plateau between 900 and 1400, and there isn't one between 1400 and 2000, it's mv^2/2 all the way.
>>64450342Only 11 rounds were caught by the plate, the first guy was shot 27 times but 16 missed the plate in the arms, torso, and groin
>>64450345What I meant to say is that velocity is only a wounding factor at over 2000 fps.
>>64450363Thank you. I disagree with that specifically, unless you mean to fix another variable like "as long as kinetic energy is the same".
>>64450282>peashooterIf it works for 11,000 people a year, it works for me
>>64450374I'm not really comprehending what exactly you are disagreeing with. 2000 fps is the border where the energy from the bullet sailing through flesh starts to exceed the elasticity of flesh and secondary wounding starts happening. Are you saying that you don't think that is the case or that velocity under 2000fps does matter because under a certain threshold, penetration becomes too shallow?
>>64450384>that velocity under 2000fps does matterThis. For example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2t_qG9dls or (difficult read) https://www.largrizzly.net/images/shooting/tests.pdfwhere a minuscule velocity increase (at comparable bullet weight and diameter) leads to significant increase in damage to meat and decrease in goat times, all of this happening far under 2000 fps.
Where's 2000 fps number from, by the way? Fuddlore or link to study?
>>64450406dude trust me
>>64450424I would trust him, to be honest, even if it's a factoid pasted from forums, sometimes this kind of info is just straight up not available otherwise. A lot of times this sort of broscience is decades ahead of rigorous standards.
>>64450406It's from Federal ammunition. They did a lot of ballistic testing for some ammunition contract a while back and came to that conclusion while in development. Most balisticians agree with them though some say the threshold is 2200fps.
>>64450436>balisticiansoh fuck off you made that word up
>>64450436Thanks, that's even better. They would probably not word that in a way to deny that additional kinetic energy causes additional damage, imo.
>>64450447I am a ballistician, you are a bullshitician
>>64449058Shut the fuck up janny faggot. You want a complete pass through. Any bullet can go in and out on a ducking head shot. It's on YOU to know what is behind what you are shooting. The fastest way to achieve fainting is two holes. This hollowpoint only, fbi police recommend depth bullshit comes from undisciplined people firing shots in firefights carelessly. The same people who drive 100mph through a 25mph zone to catch a guy who was doing 50mph through the same zone. In closing, you are a faggot, shut the fuck up.
>>64450455More like faggotician lol
>>64450404The goat time can just be a variable with individual bullet placment and the slight differences in the position of blood vessels in individual goats. As far as meat targets go, they are not a very scientific medium. I love Paul, but his videos were more entertainment than science. Not saying the data is useless, but it's like saying "I shot a dur and it dropped right there so remington core lost is the best ammo". There are so many variable in the meat targets that every single one is It's own thing. Sometimes he used watermelons, sometimes he used oranges. A bullet may have gone through a bungie cord or maybe not. Some hit ribs, some don’t. Some porkchop pectorals were thicker, some were colder, some had more fat, some ribs were thicker, some orange bags had more oranges, etc. For similar reasons, animal testing is not ideal either. This goat study you linked is more about bullet design than velocity. It's really too bad they didn't test a 357 mag FMJ load, but I doubt the result would have been very different from the 380, 38 special, and 9mm Fmj and RNL results. Any differences were likely just differences in individual goat's anatomies.
>>64450447I did not. It's similar to a mathematician.
>>64450436The threshold is fluid. It depends on what tissues are hit. Something like the liver will have its stretch capacity exceeded in an energy transfer at a much lower level than skin and muscle. For the most part handguns as a general statement just poke holes. You can begin to see extra tearing that is pretty insignificant in say a 357 sig 124g at its full load velocity. But that "extra" doesn't bring it up to the same damage/total wound volume of something like a SD equivalent 40SW. So, who ducking cares. You see more in full load full barrel 357mag, 44 mag, 10mm. But even still it's just cresting the stretch capacity of tissues like muscle and skin. Some if not all of this is most likely just a product of the increased velocity increasing the targets impact resistance and the bullet having enough momentum to carry through after the initial energy exchange. Once you get up to 2200fps or so you can see secondary and tertiary damage in rifle bullets. But it's when you start pushing 3000fps you start to see tissue destruction outside the direct contact bullet path and even tertiary damage.As an aside people shot with pistol bullets and die will sometimes have bruising appear. So clearly there is a little. But yeah, it's a safe bet if with a pistol to carry enough bullet weight to count on momentum and not light bullets at slightly faster velocity.
>>64450354again, those weren't hollow point bullets, that's the center of the discussion. you're example is therefore invalid, you lose. good day sir>>64450379>>64450379>works for meit's a peashooter, heart disease on the other hand is coming for you
>>64450534>The goat time can just be a variable with individual bullet placment and the slight differences in the position of blood vessels in individual goats.They shot 5 goats for every bullet type to get rid of that (and wanted 10, but that's just way too many goats)
>>64450153>Great price. Has the full match kit, the tactical only has the trigger IIRC. Only issue is threaded barrelsShit, I won't be back until Saturday. Hopefully, it's still there once I'm back. Threaded barrels are a no go in my state so the Expert is the closest I'll get.
>>64450546mathematicians are phds, who have successfully defended a thesis of original work. have ballisticians done this? ive never heard of a college that had a ballistics department.
>>64450564Yes, but there is still too many variables. It mentioned that one goat shot with a snub nose 38 LRN just hung around for a long time and even tried to eat before finally dying. That was obviously an outlier or they wouldn't have mentioned it, but it goes to show that animals really aren't the best testing medium for this sort of thing. Maybe that particular goat was especially resilient or maybe the bullet happened to only destroy smaller blood vessels. There are just too many variables so unless you are shooting literally dozens of them PER LOAD there simply isn't enough data.
>>64450111>are you actually retarded? you shouldn't shoot much less draw if you don't have PIDIf you wait that long to actually draw your weapon you might be too slow. Besides, if it's HD with a long arm you can consider it "drawn" once it's in your hands. Neighbor was still a tatd, though.
>>64450627i'm only talking about the neighbor, yea in hd you can have your gun drawn and do whatever
>>64449082I'm confused, but if you're the wired camo fn guy, I was the guy who bought the arex looking for a suppressor host last year. Anyway, I'm not looking for a transporter job for me, but I gave the idea to someone else. I got a text about a job that pays a little better but you know how companies are. Either I'll never hear from them again or I'll be giving an appointment to interview at short notice. I'm the mean time, I'm unemployed and my time is worthless. I really ought to hit the range tho, it's been almost a year. >>64449291I'm assuming this is (you).
I have come to the unfortunate conclussion that a 5 shot j frame is no longer an adequate carry gun in 2025. g43x, shield plus or p365?
>>64450777Two j frames
>>64450728Thats me, were you the anon who was always posting about not making it to the range because he was busy kayaking while the weather was nice? I think I may have convinced two seperate anons to buy the Arex, or maybe you're just the same guy and I'm confused. I should have off this Wednesday if you wana meet up at a range. Ammos on me, don't worry about that but I'm gonna be putting your thumbs to work because I need to break in this 12 round mag on my BG 2.0. Good luck on the job, hope they call soon.>>64450777Having shot like 9? 10? Different micro 9s, the worst option you listed is the 43x, the best of all I shot is the shield plus, and a surpisingly good fourth option for you to look into is the Taurus GX4, which has a shockingly nice trigger that meets or exceeds the p365 and beats the 43x all at a cool $179 if you buy it online.
>>64450777If you aren’t carrying a full-size with a compensator you will literally be torn to shreds in the streets by a hoard of EBTzombies come November 8th
>>64450826This but with no sarcasm. Shit gonna get ugly if you're a city dweller.
>>64450817>>64450777Excuse me I take it back, with the $30 rebate the Taurus GX4 is currently $149. The taurus gx4 has one of those serialized FCUs so you can convert it to a mischeif machining 1911 frame if you like, but the factory grip has a fantastic grip texture that's not too rough for carry rubbing on bare skin but also not too slippy which is VERY important for a micro 9 as you don't have much hand real estate to hold onto.
>>64450833Me getting groceries in a area with a under performing school district
>>64450833Man I'm glad they're paying me incredible sums of money to work this 13 week contract in Detroit cuz shits gonna get weird and whacky here. May start carrying the Arex instead of the 509c when I'm not head to/from work and pocket carrying my BG 2.0
>>64450843>I live in the dark blue of the Detroit crime mapI'd get that legal insurance James Reeves talks about but last I looked it up I don't think it covers me out of state, and I'm still a Florida resident. Gotta cross my fingers and pucker my butthole when I leave the house I guess.
>>64449028I don’t have a white camo handgun, am I gonna make it? Very nice anon.
>>64449960.40 and crowd have some extra swagger
>>64450928Winchester Service Grade .40 is only like 30 cpr right now
I bought a PDP a few years ago because I liked the triggerI just fingered a new gwack the other day and I'm sorta wishing I had bought the gwack
>>64450817Like I said, let's see if this company calls me back. I'll check in tomorrow. Thanks.
>>64450897I've always admired your black and green multicam, I hope you make it out when the Yetis come for you>>64450952I have really good news anon, you can buy the glock. They let you buy more than one gun if you're from a place that matters
>>64451004>They let you buy more than one gunEh, I'd rather spend my money on something that isn't another double stack 9mmLike more 9mm ammo
>>64451014Hear me out... $149 Taurus GX4 For the cost of a case of steel case 9mm you can get a gun that fills a niche you don't have filled and a kydex holster for it. >>64450978I'll keep checking the threads then
>>64451014You can just trade it in
>>64451024I find the guns to be on the same level but it's the Glock aftermarket that interests meNot worth losing $200 Trading in a used gun for a new one
>>64449028PSA Dagger Trigger Pin will not release despite wiggling the stupid fucking slide release. Next gun will be a Glock Gen 5; Glock really fucked up with the Gen 3 design and PSA more so.
Palmetto shitstick
>>64451070They literally just work. The trigger pin can be replaced with Glock's OEM design and it will be fine.
>>64451061Did you hit it with a punch and hammer?
>>64451086Yes.
>>64450777If you're comfortable and accurate with your j frame I honestly don't see a reason to stop carrying it. If you're in Detroit, avoidance is going to protect you better than more rounds once you actually have a gun, at least the difference between 5 38s and 13 9mms. Granted the switch to semi auto makes reloading faster and easier so there's that. I think that I'm the very narrow set of circumstances where your j frame is insufficient and you have a chance of survival anyway, your odds aren't improved that much unless you go bigger. You're only going to need more if you miss, you fail to stop, or you're facing multiple determined attackers. Unless you piss off the local gang or look like a soft target you won't be in situation #3. The hood sorts itself and anyone stupid enough to attack you if you look not worth it should be sorted before they get to you by their fellow apes. If you practice you shouldn't miss a legal shoot.Therr is the issue that an outlier assailant might not be stopped by 38 with the low velocity from a snubbie. That's probably your most likely survive if you upgraded scenario. All 3 guns you list are fine as you are upgrading to 9mm, but you seem to be, based on your later responses>>64451014 like here you sound like you're cheap and lazy (I mean no disrespect, just trying to come up with an answer for you.)The only factor in missing is how small do you need? Like if I'm in the "I'll get fired if they see it" I'm running my pocket 380 and hoping it's enough. If I'm on my own time in the ghetto, full size, who cares if I print. I think you should look for a deal on a 40sw. Like >>64450928 says. Doesn't have to be a trade in. Something old with no optic cut nobody wants that's been sitting the case since COVID ended. You want that extra power. It's basically 10mm. Most 10mm loadings are just 40sw in a bigger case anyway. >Glock aftermarket get a 23 or 27 and an extended mag then. 40 or 9mm. Not the 43x. It's a meme.
Can 8 round mags work on a 7 round Govt Model 1911?
>>64450933Is that good? I consider putting Glock 23 stock barrel back in for practice, but 9mm is even cheaper.
>>64450777Two j-frames for a total of 10 rounds
>>64450777>Shield Plus>P365>Glock 26Those are your options>>64450805My man gets it
Obviously the 9mm would be 19 or 26. But don't get the 43. It's not worth replacing your snubbie for a single stack and don't trust the after market mags for real shit. 43 is probably the most overrated gun of the 21st century. You're giving up capacity, concealablity, and magazine compatibility with other Glocks and Glock magazine compatible firearms for the name. If you want to go single stack get a fucking 10mm 1911.
Try working in a whole ass glock 19 if you can
Oh wait, >>64450952This is a different guy. Fucking anonymous board is confusing. Well whatever.>>64450777Get a 10mm 1911. You know you want to.
>>64451163unless you have an 20+ round mag 9mm is a meme. Mogged by hollow point .45 and .40
>>64450777Hellcat.>not a sig>smaller than a shield plus and has a much nicer manual safetyG43X doesn't belong in this comparison it is much taller than micro 9s, it is G19 size with a short barrel, are you stupid or something?
>>64451134>Not the 43x. It's a memeYet I shoot it better than all the micro 9's I've tried and it has been completely reliable with the 15rd PSA dagger micro mags. I have one early gen dagger micro mag with 1k through it alone and I just replaced the spring on it out of percaution not due to feeding issues. It's thin, it conceals well and I love it.
>>64450777hk45c, p2000sk in 40, vp40, glock 27, glock 30
>>6445117699% of the time I'm carrying 380. This is because I'm far more likely to lose my job printing than have to kill anybody. At this point it's more political than practical. I don't go anywhere sketchy really outside of work. If this wasn't a concern I'd probably carry my 8 shot 357. It's very hard to miss with that thing. Heavy as fuck tho.
>>64451142Yes, with the usual caveat that some 1911s only like some brands of mags so your gun may function perfectly with say checkmate 8 round mags but not like Wilson combat 8rd mags, where as my 1911 may like Wilson combats but be finicky with the checkmate.
>>64451081>No pubesTragic.
>>64451190that's fine actually carrying everyday to work is for losers. You'd be better off throwing the 380 or 9mil anyway
>>64451182>Yet I shoot it better than all the micro 9's I've triedThat's because it's way larger which is what were trying to tell you. The differences between the dimensions of the 365/hellcat and the 43x are the same as the differences between the glock 19 and 17. Of fucking course you shoot it better, the problem is it's too god damn big when both these guns shown here ship with the same capacity. All the draw backs, none of the advatages. Just carry a 19 if you want a 43x.
>>64451193Good to hear, been thinking of getting some extra mags for my Colt
>>64451201I'm not the guy with the j frame I'm just saying I love my 43x.
>>64451188>glock 3030S
>>64451182If you can afford to test the 15 round mags good for you. I heard mixed reviews on the shield arms ones so I never bothered when I had guns I already tested that work perfectly fine. Nice that you've found one that works from PSA.>I shoot it better That's all that really matters. I never got on the micro 9 bandwagon because I fucking hated the 365. I rented one 2 different times, months apart. I wanted to throw it at the target. Maybe it's just me but I really couldn't wait to stop shooting it. Then everyone started making "slightly bigger" micro 9s because, I suspect, people got sick of pretending they aren't ass to shoot, but what do I know? >>64451196>carrying everyday is for losers Are you lost, moshie? Your slide thread is over there>>>/pol/
In all seriousness, if fast reloading/capacity isn't an issue, 10mm 1911 or 7-8 shot 357 revolver? Also, is there a decent polymer 10mm concealed carry platform?
>>64451226The shield arms mags are hit and miss, the worst part is they force you to change the mag catch to a metal one that would mangle your OEM mags if you want to use them. The dagger micro mags are solid as long as you look inside and make sure there isn't any plastic flashing left over from the manufacturing process. I had to clean up one of them when I got it but the others were fine.>p365Had the same experience I couldn't shoot it well for the life of me.
>>64451226Micro 9s do suck. I prefer 380s for guns that size. The 365-380 hellcat 380 and lcp max/bodyguard 2 are perfect carry guns imo.
>>64451240>10mm 1911The only 1911 I have ever found to have sufficient reliability for any serious use is the Dan Wesson Specialist in .45 ACP.>7-8 shot 357 revolverif you don't mind carrying a block of solid steel with you everywhere I guess that'll do>Also, is there a decent polymer 10mm concealed carry platform?glock lol
>>64451240>Also, is there a decent polymer 10mm concealed carry platform?Nope. 10mm isn't really a carry cartridge anyway. It's a damn compromise between an innawoods gun and a duty gun. 40s&w is better for carry.
>>64451252G30?
>>64451240>is there a decent polymer 10mm concealed carry platform?This is the more interesting question because the other one is literally just personal preference as far as I'm concerned. The M&P 2.0 has a 4" 10mm model that, if you switch out the suppressor height sights, is pretty close to a compact or at least as close as I think you're going to get. The glock 20 is full size and also borderline painful to shoot compared to other 10mm options I've tried like the Hi Point JXP10, SIG 320 10mm, and FN 510. Glocks ergos do not play nice with higher calibers, and my buddy who owned a g20 stopped bringing it to range days because nobody ever wanted to shoot it.
>>64451252So what's the best 40 right now? You never hear about it anymore. You'd think they'd come up with a "micro 40." It feels like the industry wants 3 it to die.
>>64451267The only people who bought .40 were cops (and niggers). Now cops carry 9mm and there's no reason to keep making guns or ammo.
>>64451266Does the SIG 320 10mm suffer from the... uh... whatever the fuck is going on?
>>64451279Indian MIM and Sig quality control? Yes, but nobody got shot since nobody carries 10mm.
>>64451258S'good just get the 30S not the regular 30.
>>64451279As far as I know, yes. Unfortunately the sig 10mm XTEN is also probably the nicest 10mm handgun I've shot, and I say that as a massive fan of the fn 510. I would reccomend it as a range toy, but never as a carry for that reason. I bet they're pretty cheap used now days.
>>64451270There is a zillion gun in circulation that can be had for cheap that spots a big bullet for a good bit less money than a 45.
>>64451293>big bulletBut not as big.>less moneyLess good.
>>64451267Glock 23, M&P40 2.0
>>64451295Hey at least it's not a 380 for you get less big and less good for more money
>>64449855Between the Shield Plus and the J-frame, assuming you've carried them both, how much more comfortable is the J-frame? I'm looking for THE most comfortable and convenient gun to carry and don't really care about capacity. The Shield sucks to carry when sitting down despite being tiny.
>>64451270So 9mm is too weak, 10mm is too strong, and 40 is for niggers. 327 magnum? Also, I just noticed that the current production smiths are in 32 h&r, not 327 Federal. What the fuck is the point of that? >>64451287>>64451295I thought 40 was better than 45? It was my impression that 45 only exists because back in 1911 they still had all that 45 Colt capacity from the revolvers and it's 100% obsolete now. I'd go look at the old Paul Harrell videos, but I don't want to cry.
>>64449037Fucking Stockton. All things considered other guy's lucky he wasn't ventilated as well.
>>64451313>The Shield sucks to carry when sitting down despite being tinySounds like your holster is riding too low maybe try adjusting the clips higher.
>>64451314.45 ACP>bigger hole>less recoil>Annihilates Colored People>>64451314>I thought 40 was better than 45?Maybe if you're a fuckin retard.
>>64451313>When sitting downAre you carrying iwb? Appendix? I'm a big fan of cargo pocket carry. Better access when seat belted. Like if a shield is too big, I think the gun choice isn't the issue. It's your method or your body. Put a 380 in your pocket or quit being a tubby pussy?
>>64451316I'm using Enigma Express so there is no clip, but maybe one of those DCC clips would help.
>>64449913This sounds fake
>>64451333It's very real.
>>64450023lol, no. Wild that people don't know this, this used to be common /k/nowledge. I guess ever since CZ passed out of fashion, people have forgotten.
>>64451315>Cent Cal's going to shit tooGrim!
>>64451317I'm not seeing anything anywhere that suggests 45 is better, only comparable at best depending on ammo selection, but if you want to make it super hot, why not go to 10mm?
>>64451352>'m not seeing anything anywhere that suggests 45 is better45>40>but if you want to make it super hot, why not go to 10mm?11.43>10Also .45 super exists, giving you comparable energy with much lower pressure, and therefore lower risk of losing your hand.>only comparable at best depending on ammo selectionNothing expands like .45 ACP hollowpoints.
>>64449520Thats really dumb because if its ammo coming off a line youre sending it all through the same qc. Wjat are ypu letting that entore grpup take a break and everyone goes well its civilian ammo time for 3 hours?Same tier as walmart m4 myth man. Just dog water tier take.
i can't decide if i want to buy an RXM, or buy another gritgrips frame and a zev slide
>>64451367no retard, because it's the US government doing the QC check that isn't done.
>>64451371I'm thinking of buying rxm as well and it's all because of magpul branding, they make really good rifle plastics
>>6445131445 is the Supreme handgun round there are hollow points that expand to a full inch across and still penetrate adequately.
>>64451361Yeah, the available data disagrees. From what I'm seeing, there's a lot of 45 that doesn't expand as well even with the larger starting velocity. >>64451379Yeah, now find me that ammo in stock online. You can't. I just checked. It would be nice to have more current data than that tired lucky gunner chart.
Actually, is this it? https://outdoorlimited.com/handgun-ammo/45-acp/winchester-45-auto-ammunition-p-ranger-t-series-ra45tp-230-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-50-rounds/
>>64451367Give another explanation why Winchester Service Grade is cheaper than Winchester Active Duty for the same round. Both are identical. The only thing that can be different is that one went through military QC which is way more in-depth than anything civilian ammo sees.
>>64451410Ranger T was one of the ones in the ~.9 expansion range.
Anyone know what the difference between white box, service grade, and pic related is? No idea why they have 3 different versions of 95 grain FMJ and why one is cheaper than the other two.
>>64451421I have no knowledge about .380, I only shoot 9mm. For 9mm White box is round nose and loaded super light, I heavily suspect if not know that Service Grade is from the same exact production line as the militaries new M1152 and M1153 9mm loadings. Flat nose 115 gr @ 1300 FPS which is 440 ft lbs. or for M1153 it’s a 147 gr at like 900 fps or so.
>>64451412man I wish they sold the projectiles alone. I remember getting some greentip z-max 45 auto projectiles when they discontinued the ammo, those were cool to load. I wanted to do some 45 colt but eventually figured out I'd probably never get one so I stuck them in 45 auto cases.
>>64451314>What the fuck is the point of that?Shorter cylinders means lighter guns. Also, .32 H&R is super controllable out of a snub. .327 fedmag feels about the same as .38 special +P, which can still be a bit jumpy.>inb4 baby handsEveryone shoots tamer rounds better. In something tiny like a snub with bag sights and a small grip, that's magnified.>inb4 muh stoppan powah.32 H&R isn't a mouse caliber. A standard pressure self defense load is more than capable of doing the job and start to get near 9mm. In any case, if you really gave a fuck about muzzle energy, you wouldn't be carrying a snub. Also, .32H&R has gotten wider support than .327 fedmag due to it being decades older. It's just a better caliber desu.
>>64451314The 1911 is in .45 because the Army made .45 a design requirement of the automatic pistol trial. If colt had their way, they would have just sold them 1905 military models in .38 ACP, but the army just had a bunch of problems killing Filipinos with .38 LC revolvers and had to fall back on .45 LC SAA revolvers.
>>64451440I feel like they could spare the eighth inch and make it 327. It's backwards compatible. Maybe it has to do with getting away with lighter materials. One could also argue that 38 is better because if you cared about capacity you wouldn't be carrying a snubbie, but that's exactly the argument. What about 30 super carry? Where would that fit in the hierarchy?
>>64451464> .38 acpWhat the fuck is that? 380? 9mm?
>>64451493It's the one that became .38 Super
>>64450777I like my hellcat.
>>64451488Maybe, but Idk. Maybe less material strength (since they make aluminum and titanium .357 j frames) and more they can use cheaper materials that are light. Kind of the same thing you're saying but a shade different. >.30 super carryAbout the same as standard pressure 9mm, so a little less than .327 fedmag. Both .327 fedmag and .30SC are high pressure cartridges. .32H&R is like 23k psi while .327 is 45k psi and .30SC is over 50kpsi. For reference, .357 mag is 35k. .32H&R is really efficient for the terminal effects it can get.
>>64451401>Yeah, the available data disagreesFind a hollowpoint that expands better than the winchester ranger t series>even with the larger starting velocity. .45 super and 10mm have zero benefit for hollowpoints. Should be used exclusively with solid copper or hardcast lead for large animal defense.
What's a good rmsc optic? Are the vortex CCW issues ironed out now
>>64451579Romeo X
>>64449058Holla point in da blick, golden domes on da reload. If I’m reloading I want barrier penetration and if you get clapped for sticking around like a flipper handed retard that’s between you and god, no cap
>>64451270>>64451267>Now cops carry 9mmThere are still holdover departments that continue to carry 40. It also has a niche of being legal to carry in countries where civilians aren't allowed to use calibers in use by the military like 9mm. The common notion on /k/ that 40's going to go the way of the dodo is laughable considering even more obscure cartridges are still kicking.
>>64451579How much do you want to pay? What features do you want? The CCW emitter's low refresh rate was fixed a long time ago but idk about longevity. Vortex does have their killer lifetime warranty tho
>>64451680Actually the CCW is about what I'd pay for an optic, around $200. I don't really care for enclosed emitters that are going for twice that price since I've never actually had rain or dust affect an optic that bad. Neither do I care for made in USA since Chinese optics tend to do just fine.
>>64451688It's a decent option then. It's a little big for the footprint, probably its only real flaw. Another option around that price would be a Holosun K model on sale, with the caveat that it's not a true Shield footprint and the slide may need to be ground (or an adapter plate used) to work on true "Shield" pattern slides. Sig also makes the Romeo RS Compact under $200, but it's REALLY big, and has a REALLY tall deck so probly not a great option if you're trying to keep bulk down with a micro 9 or something
Do you have any gun people in you life that try to convince you their flavor of guns is better then yours? Maybe they always are critical of your choice and try to convert you to other brands/models?
>>64451730No. One or both of you need to touch grass.Two guys I hunt with shoot 6.5cm and like revolvers. I run 30-30/30-06 pending location and like wonder 9s. We all are gonna being running the same knife this year but that’s just because popping a disposable blade off for a new one vs fighting with a bloody sharpener looked life a QoL increase when one guy showed up with one
>>64451240>carrying a 1911>not carrying a .45
>>64451313>638 J frameBeen putting it in the same pocket holster for 5 years>Shield PlusA bit tricky with a pocket holster but investing in a quality holster means all the difference.I have a T rex Arms holster (IDGAF, they are good) and it has features that make it feel damn good to carry.I also have a Glock 26 on order but that thing still hasn't been shipped after 8 days
>>64449082Love my arex. need to get a full size tactical to suppress, light, and red dot. Still IWB this almost every day, light is since gone. Also I get torn between going full send with a zero 1 T and a Zero 2 with no extras.
>>64451313It's way more comfortable. The j frame is very round, which makes it balance perfectly on the belt line. It's super lightweight, too, so you don't need a proper gun belt either. Do yourself a huge favor and get the 32 version, preferably with the titanium cylinder. If you just want pocket carry, get a p32.
>>64451965>I also have a Glock 26 on order but that thing still hasn't been shipped after 8 days>irrelevant carry gunlol
>>64452107OK Bud, now tell me, who has adopted the Shield or P365?At least the P365 has been adopted by one major US city Police department, one state police department and the other 4 are all smaller cities who aren't as big.Meanwhile the Glock 26 has been adopted by various police/sheriff departments and militaries and is still being used by themAlso the Glock 26 has an insane amount of magazine options
>>64452133
Glock 26 sucks it's too small to shoot well with out a pinky extension and at that point you might as well get a 19
>>64452325Glock 19 sucks it's too small to shoot comfortably with out a light attached and at that point you might as well get a 17
Moniker - schizo pastebin
>man involved in sig p320 airman case was found deadSig just assassinated someone
>>64452352Do you think it was with a p320?
>>64452348
>>64452133There are sheriff department still using five shot .38 specials. I don't give a damn who adopts what because I make my own decisions.
>>64452376There's nothing wrong with a 5 shot 38 snub.
>>64449207What did the Glock 26 order you to do?
>>64450777Start Jetfire Jim-maxxing
