When will the Army finally stop gargling SiG's balls and can their shit?
>>64603047>When will the Army finally stop gargling SiG's balls and can their shit?After a multiple warrants are signed, bank accounts seized, and lucrative post-reitrement career opportunities are exposed. Basically never.Best case scenario is the Army realizes they made a massive mistake and they literally pay SIG so they can breach their contract and end procurement early.SIG got the tip in and they will put their entire company's existence at stake defending those contracts for the m17, m7, and m250 before pulling out at this point.
It's actually outstanding how bad the M7 is. Like, it'll never be INSAS tier bad, but when a gun falls apart when firing, optic mounts break while firing, requires new stances to fire with any kind of accuracy, takes fewer rounds (and thus magazines) than a standard M4 soldier loadout, is not suitable for women or manlets (inb4 'well they shouldn't join the military then' - tell that to recruitment) and requires a completely different tactical doctrine (because there are reports of previous M4 equipped units training with it and going 'Sir we've run out of ammo' 15 mins early) on top of it being a ergo bitch. That's ignoring the absolute desperate attempts to 'fix' it by giving it longer barrels or whatever they're doing to it, I gave up after the last report going 'holy shit this is bad'. The thing is just a fucking nightmare. Should have adopted .270/.280 British 50 years ago and spent time on developing that round and all the doctrine around it instead of this nonsense.At first I thought the military had 'agreed' to it because they wanted the LMG which SIG said was a joint deal of none at all... Then the LMG seemed to be actually worse than current options and my idea that the M7 would be quietly bought in a few thousand to be turned into DMR turned out not to be the case. I'm not saying any of the other options were 'better' because hindsight and all that, but I am saying that there were warning signs during the competition phase that SIG was gonna fuck this up.
>>64603047The only good part about it is allowing every single rifleman to have a suppressor, but that's 100% going to be dropped because it's an easy target for cost cutting and hearling damage is just part and parcel of being a zogbot. The rifle is an intresting concept, but entirely replacing the m4 and SIG having anything to do with it is a double whammy of shit being fucked.
>>64603137>but that's 100% going to be droppedHighly unlikely. Everyone who has shot the mil-spec M7 agrees that it's borderline unshootable without a can.Apparently the thing has ungodly muzzle-blast on par with an actual obrez when you remove the can, and the recoil gets even worse, making it very difficult for noobs to shoot with any degree of accuracy what so ever.
>>64603047Man. I really want an HCAR but fuck me they are expensive.
Has anyone noticed he's beginning to morph out of his gay stage of life
>>64603153Isn't the whole basis of the M7's special ammo that it has absolutely fuck-you pressure? That was the reason they needed a steel cap for the back of the cartridge. It's gotta come roaring out of the barrel if a normal brass case would rip apart.
>>64603111>when a gun falls apart when firingWhen did this happen
>>64603047All of the US Army's small arms and individual protective gear decisions on the last 30 years have been retarded and unecessary. The P320, this bull shit, replacing the M240 (and failing), replacing the M249 (and failing), giving everyone small semi auto 5.56 carbines, these retarded ballstic helmets that fly off your head when you land on the floor, UCP etcThe only thing comparable is the bullshit drama the USMC (should be part of the Navy) created with MARPAT and replacing all their rifles with HK416s.
should have just made a bullpup designated marksman rifle with a comfortable 20 inches of boom tube. and if that's somehow not enough, guess what, you can jack up the pressure too, just not as insane as M7.>but bullpup is worse ergonomics!yeah and look how trying to put that power into an m4 carbine form factor turned out.
>>64603047>Bunch of armchair generals think they know better than the US Army officers If the Army chose SIG then it's good, end of discussion, none of the shortcomings are relevant because the adversaries can't field anything of equivalent technological sophistication, if you don't agree with it you can sign up in the zigger army
>>64603294>army chose us goy>army made it's choice goy>it's not up for debate anymore goy>look, the army made its pick goy
>>64603294I know it's you Ivan. You gave it away as soon as you said "the adversaries". No English speaker would say that.
>>64603293>should have just done something as unecessary and not-asked for as the actual M7.>>64603294>if boss said is good is good end of discussionGoyslave mentality.
>>64603047Ian was always critical of the M7
>>64603157Imagine what one would cost if I wanted to import into Yurop
>>64603314>12.5lb for the non-bitch versionEurobro... your freight charge...
>>64603303>>64603307>>64603308Like I said, armchair generals offering their irrelevant opinions on a platform, Army knows what it wants and from whom it wants, that's what a hierarchy is, officers have decades of experience and years of academic training, they're more competent than low IQ civilians and grunts, if you're not in the national security establishment, stick to hunting and personal defence, stay in your lane
>>64603389The way you type indicates you are Russian. I pray every night that Budanov''s glowies kill your kids.
>>64603395>I pray every night that Budanov''s glowies kill your kids.Not very Christian. Your prayers will not be answered.
>>64603406He will be drafted inshallah
>>64603294>Both big prime contractors drop out>Army gets a choice between a very boring and conventional gun from a gun manufacturer or rube goldberg shitrod made by some literal who in a barnThe Army only had one option. That doesn't mean it's any good.
>>64603111>the competition phaseYou mean the fake competition where they pitted it against two bullpups (see: something the army will never ever ever adopt?) Shit was rigged from the start, and hey, guess who was at the head of all of it: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/15/chief-staff-general-milley-promises-10x-improvement-individual-small-arms-ausa-2017/
>>64603435There is always the option to choose nothing at all, which is often the best option since msot of the time there never should have been a new trial to begin with. Now if nothing else the army is sticking with this garbage just to save face and avoid admitting any fuck ups, so it will be years until anyone competent can be allowed to address the issue.
>>64603137>The only good part about it is allowing every single rifleman to have a suppressorHave you seen how they perform on the M7? They glow like a Christmas tree and literally catch fire, and this is after not that terribly many magazines. The entire thing is a complete shitshow and no one in charge will publicly admit it.
>>64603435Who were the barn gunsmiths? And what did they design?
>>64603221May this year. Capt. Braden Trent did a report and stated>There were three separate cases of the charging handle snapping when pulled with excessive force under adrenalineSo, there you go, falling apart. Additionally;>Next issue observed is the suppressor and the suppressor locking ring. The suppressor locking ring is the device that attaches the suppressor to the rifle.Soldiers reported that with hand strength, this device could be broken, meaning that a suppressor could not be mounted to the system or could cause catastrophic malfunctions.>"Cartridge cases have literally been ripped apart by the internal pressure of the system,” >"most serious issue observed with the XM7 was barrel and rifle gouging occurring in all samples that had greater than 2,000 rounds through the system">"I have seen three suppressors suffer catastrophic damage during my visit to the 101st Airborne Division"I could go on, you can read his report online.
>>64603389>he just threw the fishing pole in the water
>>64603435They could have not done this at ALL you know. There's no reason to revert back to a battle rifle. The only debate now is about the particular minutiae of assault rifle design - DI vs Piston, do we still need the forward assist, where do we put the charging handle, is 5.56 the best round, etc. Not WHETHER to use an AR, that was technically settled 80 years ago, we were just 20 years late.
>>64603047Ian really should just transition already.He's having more and more trouble masking his Redditsona.
>>64603047I don’t think he was ever on board with it in the first place. He’s always been critical/skeptical about the rifle and cartridge.
Ever wonder that maybe just maybe that it is (You) guys that are actually wrong and Sig is actually right?
>>64603485I still contend the XCR-L, which can already fire larger cartridges out of a AR-sized frame and has been doing so perfectly fine for 20 years, literally designed based on what SOCOM said they wanted in a rifle, would've been a better choice to design the new sooper speshul 80 kabillion psi 6.8 magic poopoo peepee cartridge around. They'd still complain about muh charging handle or muh "waaaaaaah it's not totally shaped like an M4," but at least it probably would've been engineered competently.>inb4 schizoNot that particular one, but yes. Does it even matter when I've clearly put more thought into it than anyone in charge of the NSFW program ever did?
I am so FUCKING tired of him shilling his Finnish book in my subscription feed. It's like every 45 minutes there's something else about it. I didn't care the first time, I still don't care the 38th time.
>>64603513No. The SiG shill - Boomer M14fag alliance to push this crap is 100% wrong.
>>64603513Briefly, until I heard virtually everyone who isn't SIG, paid by SIG or in the Army and forced to keep shut say the same thing.
>>64603513No, it's a pretty clear issue to anyone with the prerequisites of 1) basic understanding of the topic and 2) honesty.
Just adopt a PA-10 in 7.62 NATO, shut up, and learn to like it.
>>64603435They could have done an M4A2 cloned from SOCOM and replaced their beltfeds with an LSAT. Win/win.
>>6460354111.5" PA-10, all hail General Milley
>>64603546You get 18" intermediate with a carbine buffer, motherfucker!
>>64603443>There is always the option to choose nothing at allThere wasn't, the program was specifically set up in such a way that there was no provision for not selecting the winner. The Army was done with getting bullied for constantly having next-gen rifle programs running for 70+ years and never procuring any of them. They were deadset on adopting a new gun no matter how bad it was.>>64603448>Who were the barn gunsmiths? True Velocity>And what did they design?Nothing, the bought the rights to the RM277 design from General Dynamics. They had a contract with Beretta to make the actual production models, but it would have been on TV to take the design from prototype to production, and the design was massively overcomplicated with a recoiling barrel and an open/closed bolt switch no one wanted or asked for.>>64603450There were also lots of reports (with the civilian MCX, too) of the handguard falling off and the screws stripping out when trying to tighten it back down. I think most of that stuff has been addressed in the recent revision, though.
>>64603111>Should have adopted .270/.280 BritishI can't believe I read this far
>>64603111>Should have adopted .270/.280 British 50 years agoopinion discarded.
>>64603485>do we still need the forward assistThe answer is: Yes, we do. See: all the rifles without forward assists.
I still dont fucking get the length limitation, everything bad about it can be safely chalked up to having a stupidly short barrel and a stupidly hot round to make up for that barrel. Make it 18 inch and suddenly you can shave a lot of grains off the load. You dont even need a suppressor that big because the muzzle is further out and the energy is going into the actual bullet instead of the pressure wave.
>>64603709Because its a classic case of by-comittee design where it needs to do a million things that can't be done at once. And the US Army brass is still fixated with the bullshit from the late 1990s from the End-of-History garbage where there will be no wars anymore, just mounted, motorized "peace-keeping" with armored cars.
>>64603439The Textron submission had a conventional layout. It was the heart and soul of NGSW and the one that almost everyone expected to win, but clearly the retards who came up with the battle rifle requirements (incl. Milley) didn't care about what LSAT/CTSAS brought to the table and only pushed their ICSR fuckery. While the NGSW was unfair/rigged depending on how you look at it, it's clear that a competition isn't the best way to structure a program like this.
I was actually watching this earlier. I'm not one to point fun at people who change their mind, because we all change or learn new things; but it's funny how at 1 point he was pretty enthusiastic about the M7
>>64603734I'm at the point where I unironically believe that SIG USA has bought both the MIC and congress. It's like they CAN'T lose, anything SIG submits to any trial seems to be adopted on the spot in spite of being plagued with serious problems
>>64603752I remember that, he was so optimistic at first. I'm torn between "I told you so" and "I'm sorry"
>>64603111Made 5.56 faggots very mad with the truth.
>>64603047Kek, what a faggot. He put a flashback at the start but never acknowledged that he took all of Sig's 13 inches (+ suppressor) down his throat and said that bringing back battle rifles is a good idea, not the other NGSW finalists though, they were too experimental!
>>64603784I'm not religious at all but I try to give grace, we all make mistakes in action and mind. But he seemed to use his comparative "authority " to speak in bigger terms that he probably shouldn't have.But his fans believe every single word he says, so I'm sure those people's minds changed in the last 24 hours.Either way, it was always a retarded idea, a rifle built specifically for long range sharpshooting in Afghanistan against goat fuckers and pedophiles wearing minimal to no armor
When the United States of America heals they'll go back to the M1917 in .30-06, loaded pretty hot with a good, slow modern single base power and a 170grn VLD. As God and Winchester intended. Keeping the original irons but adding a good, robust optic.
>>64603813>M1917>longest bolt throw of any rifle possibly ever>almost as long as a G98, and weighs about a pound more>front heavy>only saving grace is decent sightsSo good that the US and British military wanted absolutely nothing to do with it after WWI.
>>64603824>waaahBest rifle of WW1 we should still be using it today. Let the LMG spray lead, men should carry a strong, blued steel and black walnut full size rifle in .30-06. Remove the queers, women and wimps from the military.
>>64603915I'm giving you facts you son o bitch
>>64603924I'm the one giving YOU facts, you cock sucker.
>>64603602>>64603614>t. 308 M14celsAnd that was only half as criminal as NGSW, at least before adoption.
>>64603111>SIG was gonna fuck this upThe requirements were fucked up to start with.95% of what's wrong with the M7 would've existed regardless of who won.
>>64603734LSAT was done a dirty
>>64603047125,000psi has to be a mistake right? Kentucky Ballistics 50 cal blew up at 85000
>>64603734>>64603770Textron pulled out of the competition before it even began. Clearly the mistake was choosing Textron to partner with for LSAT development.
>>6460408880k
Why don't we just issue them out 1 per squad? We have the logistics skills to do it.
>>64603389Absolutely terrible bait. 0/10, do better.
I'm watching the video now and holy shit, I'm losing so much respect for Ian. Obviously he's correct about the M7 and Sig in general being shit, but he spends like a quarter of the video fellating CBJ's tungsten nothingburger. I thought his 6.5 CBJ video was just farming clicks from retards but apparently he's ODing on Carl Johansen's semen.
>>64603791can you post a link with timestamp to the video where he said this?
>>64603047Heavy ass rifle with shit accuracy and heavier larger ammo with less capacity that no one wants. It's junk. They should have just given the designated marksman a large frame Seekins or Larue in 6.5 CM and continued improving on the M4. If they wanted more range they could have done the ICAR mid sized frame and moved to 6arc or 6max.
>>64603464that was an entire bait shop lifted into the air like the wizard of oz and slammed into the ocean.
>>64604207Sneedmore is not enough better than .308 to justify throwing out existing ammo. 6arc and 6max are not better than .223
>>64603596>>64603450There have also been reports of factory barrels coming detached while shooting, iirc
>>64604056>SIG apologist replyThe bullpup didn't have anywhere near this level of problems lmao. The fact that you could use their cartridge in a M240 with nothing but a barrel swap is proof of that.
>>64604356The RM277 had even more problems than the Spear and there's nothing stopping you from having a .277 SIG FURY barrel machined for an M240. There are all sorts of problems with the M7 and the NGSW program in general and you somehow missed every single one of them.
>>64604369>The RM277 had even more problems than the Spear (Citation needed), sigcel
>>64603111>Should have adopted .270/.280 British 50 years agoA cartridge closer to 7.62x39 than 7.62x51, therefore replaceable by 5.56 anyway.
>>64604375>Literally worst trigger of all time>Controls are a clusterfuck with the stupid open/closed bolt switch>Overcomplicated recoiling barrel design>Abandoned by the company that designed it>Somehow even worse accuracy than the SpearAsk yourself what you actually know about it, other than "it looks cool" and "it's not made by Sig." Consider whether the facts that you actually know (not assume) about it actually add up to it being a good rifle, and whether it's possible that there may exist flaws you don't know about that might make it a bad rifle.
>>64604411>more unsupported claimsThat's not a citation, sigger
I think what he said about Afghanistan held some water. If you're taking potshots from a machine gunnner at a hill ~800 yards away, the solution is fire support. The entire fucking infantry doctrine of the US centered around the fact that at almost any given time an infantry squad can say "yeah, fuck that entire hillside/building/treeline" and watch it get turned into a crater inside of fifteen minutes. On top of that, if you're at a range where you're taking accurate fire then you're also at a range where you can RETURN accurate fire.
>>64604448I might bother to spoonfeed you if I thought there was a chance in hell that you actually had a source for your completely unwarranted fixation on the RM277. But considering that what little information about it that leaked was 100% negative from everyone, it's obvious that you know nothing about the program at all except for maybe reading a couple of headlines and you're just trying to waste my time.
>>64603111>.270/.280 BritishM7 is dogshit but that doesn't mean .270/.280 was a good round ya mong. Look up the reports, it wasn't a good round, 7.62x51 wasn't the ideal solution either but .280 was 7.62x39 but worse and would've eventually been replaced by higher velocity cartridges
>>64604556The Marines in Afghanistan just slapped a mag of Mk.318 into their M27s and capped the guy from 800 yards with their sub-MOA standard issue rifle. Even if you don't actually hit the towel, taking accurate return fire from a distance where he knows he's just spraying and praying with his 30 MOA PKM is enough to make him fuck off. I don't know why the Army thinks their 3.5 MOA rifle will be better than a less powerful but more accurate 5.56 weapon for that role, but it won't be.
>>64604587The loading they came up with wasn't perfect but the concept is excellent, it is exactly what everyone is searching for right now.Something between intermediate and full power with space for a nice long bullet with good aerodynamics.If the .270 had been adopted back then it would have had decades of development by now and perhaps the new army round right now would be a high pressure high velocity .270 brit.
>>64604157He also intentionally hides the fact he once was in very enthusiastic approval between his first opinion to now. He's bugged me for awhile, but this just shows incredibly weak integrity on his part to maintain his status as being somehow infallible. There's two types of dudes who are intelligent and know it: guys that quietly excell at their areas of expertise without making a deal of it; and guys like Ian who are obviously terrified at the concept of being wrong about something and go to unusual lengths to prevent it or negate it when it happens
>>64604556Doubly so in the age of FPVs. Now waiting for airstrikes is no excuse for plastic M14s. Every platoon or squad will have an organic drone guy to fly a FPV over there.
>>64604633You're retarded anon, it was a fat bullet in a short case, they had to barely press the bullet in to eek out a tiny bit of extra performance when they were losing the trials against 7.62x51. In case you didn't notice, to get the performance they want, 6.8x51 is as long as 7.62x51 AND it's loaded hotter than bubba's hottest handloads.
6ARC with NAS cases and a middle length barrel would have gapfit the apparent issues for the next 15 years. The requirements were inherently bad for the RFP but it's not too late to terminate the contract. New followers and barrels are a lot cheaper than a zillion pound shitrod. >>64604157>>64604636The CBJ thing is a little irritating sure. But the core argument is sound, 'don't change the platform change the ammunition'. Whether the actual CBJ projectiles and design perfectly fit the requirements isn't the point. It's that they're inherently less damaging to the capability addressed by the requirements.
>>64604556>>64604638The problem was already solved by Switchblade 300. You don't even need ace drone pilots, just tell it "yup, that's the guy I want dead" and then it blows the fucker up.>>64604633If .270 British is the perfect cartridge and just needs the right loading to solve every issue firearms have ever had, why is no one handloading it?
we've been going downhill since we replaced the m1 garand.
>>64604662>The problem was already solved by Switchblade 300this, though preferably a cheaper, more powerful alternative
>>64604661>But the core argument is sound, 'don't change the platform change the ammunition'.Either the Army's armor piercing "requirement" (it wasn't actually required to penetrate armor, just to shoot a given projectile at a certain velocity) was for a tungsten core loading, in which case CBJ's tungsten load wouldn't do anything better without being more powerful, or the Army's goal was to penetrate armor without resorting to tungsten, in which case CBJ's tunsten load would be irrelevant (and if so, the Army failed). Either way, CBJ's "expertise" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion of whether a new cartridge was needed for penetrating armor.
>>64604663Shut up you boomer fuck. You have no idea how modern warfare works.
>>64604676It's plenty powerful enough to take out a guy on a mountainside taking potshots, and if you need more than that you should be calling in for fire support anyway. Cost is a red herring, the $80k price tag everyone quotes includes the launcher and controller and shit, not just the thing that flies around and explodes. Even at that price, it's not significantly more expensive than many other weapons you might handle the situation with.
>>64604681we won ww2 with the m1 garand. we'd win ww3 if we had it still.
I mean they've basically created a rifle to fill the role that a DMR already does. Not to mention their pistols have huge problems, I'm not sure why the US keeps going with them>CEO: Ron CohenOh wait nevermind lol
>>64604680I don't disagree with you. CBJ is the thing he's shilling on hand and it's not really the right solution. If a MV for a given projectile was the goal then NAS cases and something like a 6arc with steel cores makes a lot more sense and it wouldn't have required a completely new platform.
>>64604636Was he ever *enthusiastic* about it? I've seen him say a few times that he wasn't sold on the idea but he hoped battle rifles would be making a comeback. That's an opinion shared by 90% of /k/ desu senpai.>>64604749It doesn't, though. DMRs have to be accurate.
>>646047536 ARC requires a new platform, though. And it wouldn't be as powerful as 6.8, which is already not powerful enough to meet their stated goals. Sure, there's things they could do that would give them a better individual weapon, but they would be incremental improvements and adopting and standardizing a new cartridge is incredibly expensive. They should have just stuck with what they've got, maybe buy some URGIs or possibly even SURGes, and spent that money on more important weapons and systems.With that said, I'm still a huge shill for the 5.56 LSAT, possibly with 200 round belts for everyone and no more reloading in combat. I don't think it's a very realistic dream though.
>>64604708>Cost is a red herringthese are essentially handmade items, the cost on them can be brought way down. they're also not designed for conventional warfare, there's a lot of features that can be trimmed down>it's plenty powerful enough to take out a guy on a mountainside taking potshotsyeah, if it's only a single guy and you don't miss.
>>64604792>I don't think it's a very realistic dream though.Why not? Reloading is dumb and outdated.
>>64604816 (me)oops forgot to write what I was gonna say>picrelwhoever thought this was a serious replacement for a standard service round was honestly retarded
>>64604749Pretending that the average boot can fill the role of DMR just to push the mass replacement of an inferior rifle is fucking stupid.
>>64604816>>these are essentially handmade items, the cost on them can be brought way down. they're also not designed for conventional warfare, there's a lot of features that can be trimmed downTrue, they could definitely get even cheaper. I'm not sure how much you could trim, though. Yeah, you could just buy an FPV instead, but Switchblades are much better for a variety of reasons if you're using them as long range fire support for a maneuvering unit and not the primary weapon in a stagnant trench war.>yeah, if it's only a single guy and you don't miss.It's a flying Claymore, it can take out a lot more than a lone guy. Like I said, if you need more, it's time to call in a fire mission.>>64604819Because it would be a radical change and those typically don't happen unless they're forced to.
>>64604858>I'm not sure how much you could trim, thoughcamera quality for one, the 2 axis gimbal on it as well, as long as you have dedicated scouting drones. Loiter time as well assuming you go that route, though that's more of a payload thing than a cost thing. I didn't say go down to FPV tier, better to use something that's not dependent on pilot skill and can make it through jamming.
>>64604448>That's not a citation, siggerHow about you, got a citation for this?>The bullpup didn't have anywhere near this level of problems
>>64604858oops, hit enter early again>It's a flying Claymore, it can take out a lot more than a lone guy.anon the thing is a 40 mm grenade essentially. we saw early in Ukraine that its payload had limited AoE and lethality, which is in line with its original mission as a low-collateral targeted munition, but that's not what's needed in a conventional war>if you need more, it's time to call in a fire missionanon if your munition hits to the side of the target, or only wounds the target, you'll need another. I would argue a squad of soldiers doesn't always warrant calling in artillery. This kind of thing should basically be a mortar-tier weapon that can take out an MG nest, an entrenched squad, etc.
>>64604792>new barrels for M4s is a new platform?????
>>64604207Should just do the obvious and cheap thing and bring back the M16A4 and get AR-10s. Get it from KAC and get KAC M110s too.
>>64604886By all accounts they're very effective at engaging individuals and small groups, I've seen no complaints about them (apart from the cost) until they got sent to Ukraine and their man-in-the-loop design ran into problems with Russian EW. If you need to carry 5 of them, it's going to be less weight and much cheaper to just carry around a mortar. These weapons are to prevent a unit from being tied down by a small number of enemies for a disproportionate amount of time. They are not, nor should they be, for the purpose of extending that unit's standard engagement range to many hundreds of meters. Infantry should still be maneuvering to shoot their adversaries with their guns, they are not drone jockeys.>>646049226 ARC uses the 7.62x39 bolt face, it can't be safely used at full pressure in an AR-15 platform. You need some sort of AR-15 + AR-10 or AK hybrid like the CMMG Mutant.
>>64604952>engaging individualsyes>small groupslike I said they've run into issues with lethality against small groups in Ukraine. You can look it up yourself if you want to, but hell there were threads all over this board when it was used to strike half a squad of russians and while they were likely badly wounded if not fatally wounded, they weren't instantly incapacitated, and that was from a pretty well aimed strike with the russians lined up right in front of the warhead. Remember these warheads were also not designed with body armor in mind, at least not significant amounts of body armor, which may also be contributing to the decreased lethality.>for the purpose of extending that unit's standard engagement range to many hundreds of metersyeah, which is why I said their loiter time could be drastically cut in favor of a larger warhead
>>64604952>less weight and much cheaper to just carry around a mortaralso patently false, even LWCMS is 47 lb, 41.7 at the lightest. Switchblade 300 is 5.5 lb, 5 of them would still be lighter than a mortar, not to mention the mortar rounds. the mortar would also be much less precise
>>64604886>anon the thing is a 40 mm grenade essentially. we saw early in Ukraine that its payload had limited AoE and lethalityIt's a flying claymore anon. 200 grams of tungsten shrapnel launched by a CL20 fill - it's one of the only US weapons using CL20 right now. It kills everyone in its narrow little cone on the spot, typically 2-3 men. IOW, the same effect as a 1kg Ukrainian home made bomb in a quarter of the weight, enabling a more compact drone for infantry to carry with more flight time for the same scale.
>>64604970I remember many Russian fans saying this; but not any evidence backing them up. The video we got was heavily positive.
>>64603804I don't know why anyone would take his word an expert. He just reads from books he doesn't cite. It's intellectually dishonest even at its core.
>>64604990>Switchblade 300 is 5.5 lb, 5 of them would still be lighter than a mortarThat's just the drone and tube, it doesn't include a compressor. They have a self contained 6-pack launcher, it weighs 160 lbs:https://web.archive.org/web/20161024023931/http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20161004005621/en/Obviously that's not intended to be carried around the countryside, so let's say we have five switchblades at 5.5 lbs each (27.5) and a 20 pound air compressor, that's 47 pounds and each additional round adds 5.5 pounds. Compare that to an M224A1 at 37.5 lbs with five M888 HE cartridges at 1.75 lbs each for a total of 56.25 pounds and 1.75 pounds for each additional round. The crossover point is about 7.5 rounds.So 5 switchblades is lighter, but not significantly lighter than a mortar with 5 rounds. But it's a lot less weight (and money) to toss in a bunch more mortar rounds (which make bigger bangs), which you might as well do because at this point you've turned your rifle squad into a long-range fires squad and they'll be spending their time doing that instead of infantry things.
>>64605024>>64605035I'm too lazy to find the specific video I'm referring to but I'm sure you guys remember it. A lot of the hits weren't instantaneously lethal, and we don't know what the lethality rate was since they're not gonna post a video of the russians just bleeding out for several minutes. They're using CL-20 because they're trying to cram as much lethality into a tiny, lightweight package as possible, but that doesn't tell you how lethal it is. It's still a low collateral, focused warhead, on a drone with way fancier optics than required and with a much longer loiter time than required for something used at a squad level.>>64605079>mortar with 5 roundsyou'd be lucky to hit a target on the first shot, also you don't need 5 switchblades either, IDK why you're fixated on 5.>compressorthey explicitly state the AUR is 7.2lb, unless they're fucking with the definition of AUR that should include everything they need to fire it.
>>64605068They do though. For example, after his "what went wrong with the M-14?" video, opinion here changed overnight, even if some didn't like the M-14 already, the talking points were Ian's verbatim
>>64605129That's because majority of posters here are retarded and just parrot what their youtuber says. Look at how many people were mentioning bracing a bullpup against cover before and after Hop released a vid on bullpups
>>64605137Well, that's what gets to me, it only makes not thinking for oneself easier, which is a bad thing.By all means, consoom the videos available, but never implicitly trust anyone
>>64605079https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/18kn8o5/archival_footage_of_american_switchblade_300/excuse the leddit link I'm too lazy to archive dive or convert the video, but you can see them setting up to fire, no compressor needed now>>64605024>>64605035here's one example I found while googling around for launch footage, IIRC this was a strike against FSB or something like thathttps://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/w8saor/ukrainian_switchblade_300_attack_on_border_guards/you can see the guy in black (right hand guy in the trio) still getting up after the hit. They're likely all dead, unlike the russian report, but that definitely wasn't instantaneously lethal and could still put your squad at risk.
>>64605109>also you don't need 5 switchblades either, IDK why you're fixated on 5.Okay, if your point was just that one might not get the job done so maybe you should bring two, sure why not. I just don't see the point in turning an infrantry squad into a mobile drone team.>unless they're fucking with the definition of AUR that should include everything they need to fire it.AUR is a missile in its tube, it doesn't include fire control and everything else. Otherwise the weight of a TLAM AUR would be 10,000 tons. Looking at pictures, it appears that they just use compressed air tanks without a compressor attached and then fill it back at base if they use it, but that only works because you can spread the parts out through a squad and the tank is just a little bulky without adding much weight. If you're carrying several drones, carrying one tank with a compact battery powered compressor makes a lot more sense than handing a tube and tank to practically every member of the squad.
>>64605147>but you can see them setting up to fire, no compressor needed nowInteresting, I wonder how the new launch system works.>you can see the guy in black (right hand guy in the trio) still getting up after the hit. They're likely all dead, unlike the russian report, but that definitely wasn't instantaneously lethal and could still put your squad at risk.Blue is dead, gray is dying, and black is absolutely not combat effective after that. I'm not sure if you've ever been flashbanged, but I can assure you that guy is not going to remember his name for another 5 or 10 minutes.
>>64605152>AUR is a missile in its tube, it doesn't include fire control and everything elseI didn't mean it included FCS etc. I should've been more specific with my wording but AFAIK AUR should include all the hardware that makes the thing go bang. I would presume whatever is required to launch it from the tube would also be included, but it's not like Aerovironment gives that information out.
>>64605147I hate reddit but sometimes there really is decent info. Sort of like here, you have to sift A LOT to find the gold. I'd argue reddit is worse though
>>64605181I would have assumed the launch stuff wasn't included, but based on the video in >>64605147 I think it probably is. It looks like it uses a CO2 canister in the device he's holding with the button, but I'm not sure.
>>64605179>black is absolutely not combat effective after thatI would agree black is bleeding out and in shock but he could still potentially be a threat, adrenaline is still pumping in his system. This is also a best case scenario for the warhead, it's basically a dead-on hit on 3 guys standing shoulder to shoulder in the open with no armor. Like I said, there's a lot of mass budget that could be diverted to the warhead to make it better in a squad-oriented conventional warfare role, primarily making it less uni-directional which is great for low-collat but bad if the enemy has spacing.>>64605185It's better for searching since the page has the title in it, if I'm archive diving I have to spend a lot longer especially since the search function in the archives is worse when you don't know the specific wording of what you're looking for.
>>64605185Honestly, 4chan used to be better before the captcha. Before that, you could ask a simple question and get a simple answer. Now the bar for posting is high enough that you ask a simple question and no one responds unless they're looking to heckle someone. And it's gotten worse recently, more than once I've gotten cucked out of effortposting by the captcha. I spend 10 minutes typing out an essay and then it hits me with a 2 minute timer and I just close the window and go do something else.
>>64605230lol, lmao>Doesn't write it up in Notepad>Is such a notorious spammer he gets nailed by the captcha>Doesn't even get a "no captcha needed" even
>>64605109>not instantaneously lethalWarfare is brutality.
>>64605294>Doesn't write it up in NotepadThat's exactly the kind of shit that makes me not want to invest the effort and just shitpost instead.>Is such a notorious spammer he gets nailed by the captchaVPN, and I'm not paying for a pass to get banned any time I hurt a janny's feefees.>Doesn't even get a "no captcha needed" evenI get bypassed or timered practically at random even on a single IP.
so this is the reason anti-Ian threadsappeared across 4chan this week
>>64604651>they had to barely press the bullet in to eek out a tiny bit of extra performance when they were losing the trials against 7.62x51You've literally missed the entire point of .280 British then and the point the original anon was making. Had .280 British been adopted as NATO standard, as everyone else in NATO wanted, then the development of 50+ years from then till now means the round would be superior than 7.62x51mm as a rifleman's calibre. 7.62mm is already going the way of the Dodo. All firearms in that calibre will probably be phased out in the next 10-15 years as they're unable to effectively compete in a peer conflict. 6.8mm as a round is perfectly fine and if we get machine guns in 8mm+ then that will give us redundancy into the future. As for SIG, they fucked the rifle. They could have introduced a rifle with recoil reduction systems similar to what the Russians did with the AEK-971, AL-7 and AN-94, they could have even bullpup'd the rifle so the balance is better spread out. But that would never win public opinion in the US.
Solution is and always was picrel, chambered in >>64548234 <---This
>>64605406>.280 BritishIt could and would have worked (been properly thoroughly field-developed and engineered to do so).After the 1950s we're all in a completely different mil small arms timelineIWN FN .264 needs to be adopted, now, as The West's standard cartridge for infantry rifles and LMGsuse-adopt whatever you want (.338) for MMGs
>>64605451>IWN*IWS
>>64605152>>64605181>compressorThey used a compressed air tank for one of the training rounds on the Switchblade where you flew it into a net and re-used it. The combat version has always used a pyro charge.4chin continues to be unimplessively aware of the most basic shit.
>>64605357They've been cropping up on occasion for years
>>64605451>IWN FN .264 needs to be adopted, now, as The West's standard cartridge for infantry rifles and LMGs use-adopt whatever you want (.338) for MMGsAgree, I'm still impartial to the 6.8mm - it's being let down by the rifle itself. Australia will introduce a 6.8mm rifle taking insparation from the F-90/EF-88 or the ACAR (Bullpup/Not Bullpup). I think the bullpup should be adopted as a weight distribution factor. People who shit on bullpups are smooth-brained and fail to recognise the benefits that they have, like the Steyr, and the potential they have to make 6.8mm rifles effective.
>>64605478No I'm specifically referring to a dozen anti-Ian threads that popped up this week. (I was, "wtf why this all of a sudden" / "who even cares about him")What day did he upload the M7 video?
>>64605495idk about the newer bullpup rifles. AUG remains the king (yes can understand why Australia, having used their own variant of AUG for decades, would develop new rifles in that design configuration)RE: many armies adopting bullpups—external to the cartridge discussion, it'll remain a per-service, per-country army decision and preference. Some armies like it and find it preferable, some don't and won't. Same as when Austria (and U.K. 1980s-90s SA80) adopted the AUG: other allied services didn't adopt an infantry rifle in that configuration.
Apparently they shaved a whole pound off the weight but cutting the barrel and auppressor down and doing some other weight savings shenanigans. Really makes you wonder why they didn't lead with that if they could...
>>64604858>>64604865I wonder if they could do a bit of rearranging things and put the shaped charge in front with a blast shield so it can do its thing and then fly back to a point where it can be recovered.
>>64603170He broke up with Karl a while ago.
>>64603389>Army knows what it wantsThey're so retarded that they'd re-adopt the M14 if you didnt supervise them closely enough.
>>64603515Does it come with a blank firing adapter?
>>64603596>nothingThey were the ammo contractor, and after GD figured they wouldn't win, they offloaded the IP onto TV. >open/closed switchTV didn't have a separate M249 replacement gun, so they needed the open bolt switch in order to have the gun do double duty as an automatic rifle.Both TV and Textron made the mistake of thinking that the ammunition was central to the NGSW program (which it should have been) instead of the caliber tards getting their 7.62 battle rifle as fast as possible.
>>64605787they have, multiple times
>>64603915The M1917/P14 wasn't even the best rifle in the armies that used it.
>>64603047I'm all for them adopting shit that isn't mature yet to force it into maturity. Reciprocating barrels with pissing hot loads is a worthwhile concept. But then they adopted sig, which is just nothing new and already current tech.
>>64605832>They were the ammo contractor, and after GD figured they wouldn't win, they offloaded the IP onto TV.Yes, so by the time the competition actually happened, there was only one gun manufacturer involved.>TV didn't have a separate M249 replacement gun, so they needed the open bolt switch in order to have the gun do double duty as an automatic rifle.There was indeed an AR variant of the RM277 with a longer barrel. There's no reason why they couldn't have locked the carbine variant into closed bolt permanently and the automatic rifle into open bolt permanently, and that's probably what they would have done for the production models if they had won. But that's just an example of how the design was needlessly overcomplicated and dreamed up by some nerd engineer who jerks off to Forgotten Weapons and not someone who thinks he might ever have to be in a situation where his life might depend on it.
>>64603047Me and another anon figured this out in another threadThey need to go to 6mm arc and 416 Barrett As the new 5.56/7.62 dynamic duo Because arc has the range of 308 and 416 has the range of 50
>>64605495>Australia will introduce a 6.8mm rifleThey're testing it out of curiosity, they haven't committed to jackshit. Sig is also competing, incidentally.
>>64605406>recoil reduction systemsyou know like a good 70% of the recoil reduction from the BARS series of rifles is from the muzzle brake right. the whole counterweight system is a meme. let's not even get started on the AN-94.>would be superior than 7.62x51mm as a rifleman's calibrewhat, as a standard rifleman's cartridge? fuck no, it's literally the worst of both worlds, it's got the diameter and bulk of 7.62x51 and shitty muzzle velocity>muh 50 years of developmentI literally told you they had to barely press the bullet in to make enough room for propellant to make the cartridge a *teeny* bit less shit vs 7.62x51. Even with modern propellants it'd still be a shit cartridge. It's a fat projectile in a short case, it wouldn't give you any real AP advantage (remember the cartridge that satisfied the army's requirements is a souped up 7.62x51 necked down to 6.8, loaded by bubba himself), nor any range advantage. Why would anyone use it over 5.56 or 7.62x51 in their respective roles?>being phased outyeah, because we're bringing in a souped up version of it in the form of 6.8, and instead of being retarded the army should've just replaced the DMR and GPMG roles with it instead of insisting on M14A2
>>64605469>The combat version has always used a pyro charge.was what I assumed but I found no sources regarding that and anon seemed real confident about it, plus the MPL is xboxhueg
>>64605878This, except 24 Nosler and 7mm Remington SAUM.
>>64605878>>64605948>They need to goIWS FN .264 <--for the rifle and LMG, .338 Norma <---for the MMG, .416 Barrett <--for the custom-specops long range anti-materiel rifle, and .50 BMG for Ma Deucesee ^^^upthread, best rifle is the HK 433 in .264best LMG / 'SAW' is anything-but-nuSIG
>>64605968No. Battle rifles are stupid and so are you.
>>64605948>24 nosler6 arc but less modern>7mm saumAt least use a 30-06 action and do something like a 338 winmag optimized to equal 338 Lapua 250gr
>>64605973>"battle rifle"Doesn't exist (and nothing I posted infantry rifle/LMG is 'muh full power carrrrtridddddddddge hurr durr') Go back to the videogames plebbitard brainlet sub-moron
>>64605885>They're testing it out of curiosity, they haven't committed to jackshit. Sig is also competing, incidentally.Ack, but I can tell you right now any 7.62x51 offering won't be accepted due to it's underperformance. It's reached life of type and it will be replaced soon. I know other organisations has been observing solutions for some time now, people have even been saying the .50 is going to go as well.>>64605913>you know like a good 70% of the recoil reduction from the BARS series of rifles is from the muzzle brake right. the whole counterweight system is a meme. let's not even get started on the AN-94.And? What's your point?>what, as a standard rifleman's cartridge? fuck no, it's literally the worst of both worlds, it's got the diameter and bulk of 7.62x51 and shitty muzzle velocity7.62x51mm: "147 gr (10 g) M80 FMJ - 850 m/s" So out of a machine gun...6.8x51mm: "113 gr (7 g) Hybrid Ball - 980 m/s" And that's out of a 16" rifle. So you're just making shit up at this point.>I literally told you they had to barely press the bullet in to make enough room for propellant to make the cartridge a *teeny* bit less shit vs 7.62x51. Even with modern propellants it'd still be a shit cartridge. It's a fat projectile in a short case, it wouldn't give you any real AP advantage (remember the cartridge that satisfied the army's requirements is a souped up 7.62x51 necked down to 6.8, loaded by bubba himself), nor any range advantage. .280 British was never supposed to be a full-length rifle calibre. It was an intermediate calibre, so why would you expect it to be on par with 7.62mm?? The US adopted the 7.62mm for general issue as a rifle calibre, forced everyone else to adopt it and ditched it within 10-12 years once the M16 was adopted in 5.56.>yeah, because we're bringing in a souped up version of it in the form of 6.8mm.As we should, because 7.62mm is approaching military obsolescence.
>>64605974>modernRetard. The only "modern" thing about 6 Arc is the new gun you'll need to buy if you want to load it hotter than a cat's sneeze. It's just a necked down 6.5 Grendel which is just a necked down 7.62x39, there's nothing special about it.>winmagImagine talking about "modern" cartridges while shilling a fucking belt.
>>64605986>.264>muh full power carrrrtridddddddddge hurr durrPick any two.
>>64606005>.264I meant to say .264 LICC. Obviously there's .264 intermediate cartridges, like 6.5 memedel.
>>64603111>Should have adopted .270/.280 British 50Holy shit, as if this post couldn't have been anymore obviously bri'ish, jesus christ. Try to at least hide your flagrantly dogshit opinions, Nigel, no need to drudge up completely outdated and badly designed rounds just because LORD MONTGOMERY used them on the BATTLE OF HISSYFISSFOOGLEWAGGAMUMPS.
>>64603439Millsbury Doughboy? I should've guessed that fat incompetent retard would've fucked our military up beyond recognition on his way out.
Every time I think the M7 is stupid, I read the opinions of its detractors and by comparison it looks like it's the fucking second coming.Pure retard-tier.
.45acp for pdws/pistols, 30-06 for rifles, 30-06 for lmgs, 30-06 for gpmg/mmgs, 50bmg for hmgs.there, i've solved the caliber issue.
>>64606005>>64606012IWS FN .264 ('LICC') is *not* a """"""full power""""" round6.5 Grendel is comparable to FN .264, and just as well ought have been already adopted a decade ago, either of those sufficient.>'m-memedel waaaaaaaaoooooowww'back to plebbit and this site requires a minimum 18-year user ageAlso: for your future (haven't reached it yet) adult life, stop playing videogames
>>64606038You were so close, but the correct answer is .45 Long Colt and .45-70 Government. .455 Webley and .577 Martini Henry is also acceptable.
>>64606042.264 LICC is both larger (in diameter as well as length) and hotter than 6.5 Grendel. They're comparable in the same sense that 7.62 NATO is comparable to 7.62x39, ie not at all.
>>64606038>>64606049I can get behind either of these
>>64606055Wrong.back to plebbit, (You) are underage prohibited from posting here, and stop playing videogames
>>64604207How is 4 MOA even possible? How could anyone think it could pass as a "DMR"? Your average mosin is more accurate than that
>>64606060>wrongYou're literally fucking clueless, lmao. .264 LICC uses the same bolt face as .308 and the case is 43mm long. 6.5 Grendel uses the same bolt face as 7.62x39 and the case is 38.6mm long. .264 LICC is a 62,000 PSI cartridge just like the .308 it's based on, while 6.5 Grendel is limited to 52,000 PSI because it's intended to be used in AR-15s and the bolt needs to be milled out paper thin to accommodate the pigfat 7.62x39 bolt face.
Why did they do all this retarded shit instead of just issuing the best made AR they could conceivably issue and have it chambered in 6.5 Grendel?
>>64606073Because it would be a waste of time and money to procure better guns just to chamber them for a worse cartridge.
>>64606072>'literally'back to fucking plebbit where you came from, underage videogamer>"same bolt face"kek *****NO SUCH FUCKING THING***** existsit's a cartridge, not a fiream
If they're worried about firefights at long range why don't they just use mortars?
>>64606073because the entire concept is stupid and they didn't need to change anything
>>64606075>*****NO SUCH FUCKING THING***** existsIt's the circular cutout on the end of the bolt. Pull the bolt out of your gun and you can see what I'm talking about....You do own a gun, don't you?
>>64606079>hurr durr6.5 Grendel and IWS FN .264 are the same cartridge.back to plebbit, underage videogamer brainlet>"same bolt face"kek
>>64606089>6.5 Grendel and IWS FN .264 are the same cartridge.They are absolutely not and 5 seconds googling would tell you as much. But go ahead and quintuple down on your retardation, the rest of us are laughing at you.
>>64606092>"same bolt face"back to plebbit, underage videogamer brainlet
there's also the .264 USA, which has a base of case diameter almost identical to 6.5 Grendel (the IWS FN .264 is a fatter case)
>>64606115>.264 USA, which has a base of case diameter almost identical to 6.5 Grendel (the IWS FN .264 is a fatter case)
>>64606074>>64606077>5.56>goodIt's not even adequate, you retards. It's old as fuck and based on doctrine designed to be applied to outdated scenarios. You NEED more capability, you NEED something that can retain energy at longer range, you NEED better potential capability against armor (load depended, you can only push 5.56 so far).
>>64603137>every single rifleman to have a suppressorNever was a good idea to begin with.
>>64603227>All of the US Army's small arms and individual protective gear decisions on the last 30 years have been retarded and unnecessaryThis.
>>64603713One of the smartest posts in this topic thread, (You) win anon
>>64603111checked, this is the best overall single post itt
>>64603111>Should have adopted .270/.280 British 50 years agomore like 75 years agofar too late for that and seriously suggesting would be retarded..270 + .30-06 is basically what Soviets went with by adopting 7.62x39 for grunts and 7.62x54 for MGs and snipers/marksmen (roughly the same kinetic energies)The idea US had in 50s was to replace everything from .45/9mm SMG and .30 carbine, all the way to rifles and medium MGs in .303 and .30-06, all with a single cartridge (and ideally, a single rifle platform)Keeping .30-06 would mean squad is carrying different ammo types, which they wanted to avoid.It retrospect, it was a dumb idea that went too far (much like M7).>>64604556should have just bough a batch of AR-10s for these mountain patrols and be done with it
>>64606192Correct but we're already half a century down the road. (and times-requirements have shifted, if perhaps not too drastically, but they have shifted)See : >>64605451Lined out (2025—future) : >>64605968
When SIG stops being a jobs program for O-5 and O-6 procurement officers.
>>64603513Use your brain dumbass
>>64603111>adopt .280 British That round is even WORSE.
>>64605784is this serious? he always did have a weird vibe desu I just couldn't point my finger
>>64603047I swear I saw a video of him praising the spear when it released and now he (rightly) shits on the cartridge at every opportunity.
>>64606279Wrong.
[aside from the rifle, caliber discussion]Last part of Ian's video talking about infantry rifle *field combat distances*, ability to discern man-size target:has a detailed study been done for post-2000 gwot Iraq, Afghanistan effectiveness?Talking about regular infantry (not specops, snipers, DMR)---->Point he was making in that segment, is that most infantry in modern field combat are only consistently effective—due to limited visual discernment of the target itself—at 300 meters or less
>>64603047i dont understand why anyone is impressed that this rifle can pen a btr from 150meters.you can wreck a btr from 2k meters with a drone. 400 meters with a grenade launcher. who fucking cares
>>64606430and see post right above (You)rs
>>64606430A 400m 40mm shot has to be mostly luck and volume at that point.
>>64606437isnt the requirement for the new grenade launchers, that the us army is testing, that they should be effective up to 500meters
>>64604638Kill yourself dronenigger
>>64606279Lol "which one?" is the question to ask bongphiles. There's like 4 and they're all shit desu.>>646030476.8 Common is a great upgrade over the 7.62 NATO. I'd drop the rifle and adopt the 250 as the lmg and give the 240Ls conversion barrels. That would really modernize us a lot with a true long range round.
>>64606279But if you take .280/30 mk1z and neck it down to .264 with a steel case, suddenly you have .264 LICC and retards start jerking off over it all over again.
>>64606530>and adopt the 250 as the lmg and give the 240Ls conversion barrels.That's stupid, though. The 249 is 5.56 for a reason. Keep it, and replace the M240Ls with M250s (with spare barrels).
>>64603081Best case scenario is just what happened to Springfield and colt were the military just stops working with them
>>64606705fingers crossed
>>64603047Funny how Sig once again won a contract by offering the Military exactly what it wanted, and somehow this is irrefutable truth of some sophisticated, globe spanning conspiracy.The Military will NEVER fucking adopt a bullpup. Ever. Everybody who adopted a bullpup 40 years ago, is now moving to conventional rifles, see China, France, UK, Israel, et cetera.Similarly, the military will NEVER adopt a SERVICE RIFLE that has more components and moving parts than a fucking CREW SERVED MACHINE GUN.Should the LSAT been what the militaty adopted? Absolutely. But the Military also made the pants on head retarded decision to adopt a bigger cartridge, and no matter how much you scream, cry, and shit your pants, you do not tell the customer what it wants is bad and they should instead buy the opposite of what they want. The way that ends is the guy who makes what the customer actually wants, getting the sale instead while you are left with your limp fucking dick.Glock abd GD both did this and guess what happened? They fucking lost. And now at least with Glock, what happened? Rugger and Magpul looked at the expired Gen 3 patent, and made exactly what the Military wanted out of the M17, which if Glock swallowed their own fucking ego, and made a modular G45, with a grip angle that didnt suck, they probably would have won. Which is how GD could have also won if they didn't make a fucking god damn bullpup.
>>64606756>Which is how GD could have also won if they didn't make a fucking god damn bullpup.GD never could have won because they didn't show up to the competition. They quit before it even started and the only reason there was a competition at all was because True Velocity bought the design from them.
>>64604604Because of the individual sharpshooter masturbation fantasies. The irony is the marines not buying into that as much as the army does.
>>64603170Nah. He's still gay:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duxdKap09e4
>>64606022You aren’t funny
>>64606060Get a fucking life man holy crap, I see you everywhere it’s obvious because you type like such a retard
>>64603047I don't know anything about this situation. But from watching the vid I don't understand why we don't just figure out what works best in Ukraine and go with that? Every time I see pics of Ukranians they're using whatever they have on hand ARs, AKs, and so on. Shit, the army could just give Ukraine a bunch of these and see how they do. Seems extremely foolish to abandon 556 based on how it performed in certain frustrating engagements in one war.
>>64606147no you don't
>>64607170>hurr durr d-don't type dat wayyy holee moleee waaaaaaooowwwwwFuck (You) and get killed fucking videolarpstreamairsoftgamer nogunz 40-IQ faggot fucktarded abortion genetic waste filth. **FUCK (You).**
>>64606437>A 400m 40mm shot has to be mostly luck and volume at that pointit's really not, 40mm is pretty accurate against something the size of a light vehicle
>>64607170
>>64607224The effective range of 40mm in real life is about 150m and the wounding radius is more like 3m. It's a rather mediocre weapon. It's used because it's better than nothing, and nothing else fills the niche. It's decidedly not an anti-vehicle weapon.The HEDP ammo comes from the cold war when Americans expected to be overrun by a horde of BMPs so the last survivors could pop HEDPs into the doors of the soviet tin cans as they went by. It won't do anything to a modern IFV's armor.
>>64607248I don't think anyone expects a grenade launcher to do anything against a modern IFV.But a BTR or a BMP 1? It can do the job.
>>64603111>Should have adopted .270/.280 British 50 years ago and spent time on developing that round and all the doctrine around it instead of this nonsense.I was with you until this point. No, gay as fuck, 5.56mm is the ultimate infantry rifle cartridge.
>>64607268Sure, and a sharp stick can take out the soldiers inside it. That doesn't make it a practical weapon for the job.
>>64607283We need flowthrough suppressors on M4s and the +400FPS ammo SOCOM tested.
>>64603170>Has anyone noticed he's beginning to morph out of his gay stage of lifenahhhhhhhh
>>64607283The best in existence perhaps, but certainly not "ultimate." I have an even better concept, I just need a couple hundred thousand dollars to test it out.
>I want less rounds to try to shoot the drone out of the sky not more!>my priority is wall-banging mud-huts in afghanistan!>ITS NOT THE SCAR:II OK! IT JUST ISNT
>>64607296based ian
>>64607192>typing like a retard again Woah who called it >>64607240Are you blind? He always adds brackets anytime he types the letters “you” and adds asterisks. You can spot him a mile away adding low quality garbage to discussions wherever he goes. You’re a moron
>>64607316>'b-but don't u see'Keep seething (You) faggot brainlet tranny plebbitard
>>64607248>The effective range of 40mm in real life is about 150m No, that's complete horsehit. LV easily goes past 300m and is still accurate. If you can't hit a windshield at 300m you're the problem.>and the wounding radius is more like 3m. Yes>It's a rather mediocre weapon.Fair
>>64605820Maybe if the USPS doesn't conveniently "lose" it in the mail this time.
>>64606289He did, he's just pretending it didn't happen
>>64603047bow down, peasants
>>64606289>>64607377He wants a battle rifle, just one that doesn't try to do anything new.
>>64603227>created with MARPATwhich if the DoD stopped letting the marines be melodramatic special snowflake faggots, we could have just standardized on across the entire military instead of having everyone having a bunch of different camo for no practical reason. >and replacing all their rifles with HK416sI don't actually begrudge them this one. Replacing clapping out M16s for a more modern variation of the rifle was a smart move, even if moving away from 20" hurts my soul.
>>64607603Replacing clapped out*
https://thephillypi.com/us-armys-new-standard-rifle-the-sig-m7-slammed-as-a-nightmare-in-technical-community-discussion/
>>64607657Buy an ad, Dirk.
>>64607328>still typing like a retard How unpredictable is that
>>64607730Is he wrong?
>>64607771>dilates on, and on
>>64607781Your posts are extremely low quality
>>64607785>'i-i'm the quality contributor n-not u'Link any single thing (You) posted on 4chanrn
>>64607773There's no news in the article and several of your claimed problems are things that have already been fixed. I'm not a Sig shill, but there's no need to lie when there's so much actually wrong with the thing.And you won't fool me, Dirk. I know that's you samefagging.
>>64603047
>>64607791>unhinged drivelSee: ---------->>64607240
>>64607789M4A4 my beloved
>>64607826precisely (You)'re this diseased faggot --> >>64589434
>>64607857Your posts are extremely low quality
>>64605990>6.8x51mmif you weren't retarded you'd have noticed I was talking about .280 not 6.8 there>so why would you expect it to be on par with 7.62mmbecause you're talking about it as if it's supposedly this glorious solution to the army's requirements.
>>646043436.5 is superior the further out you go. Within the rage guys are engaging threats, 308 is fine. Its something like 30% better dispersion beyond 600 yards. DMR guns should be 6.5 CM.308 is still effective and confers more barrel life.I don't think your average guy would trade 5 rounds, 7 with dd mags, for the increased range and velocity from 6arc/max. For a dmr to have more range in a medium or small frame, that might make more sense.>>64604217Knights is fine but seekins and larue are quality also. >>64604217Sig is trying to find a way to make the gun relevant. It sufferers from barrel whip because it is a piston running at high pressure. The high pressure requires heavier parts so more reciprocating mass. To cut the weight you have to use exotic expensive materials. They took more than a pound out of the receiver to make it lighter but OK that material is keeping your barrel straight. Whoever cooked up this project was an idiot. This rifle sucks and in no way does it make sense for it to replace the M4 other than oehaps flushing women out of the military due to the weight.It's not even good as a dmr due to the accuracy problems. The army is getting the 320 that goes off on its own and this tank gun that can't shoot straight. Total clusterfuck. They should have just given our guys a g17 and an improved M4. I we need more range 6arc/max icar mid frame or 6.5CM large frame.
Who is this for?Its not for AfghanistanIts not for a heavily urbanized/jungle environment that is TaiwanBut it does out perform 5.56 a round common in the USA. What enemy is this for?
>>64608263It's not. It's a series of gravel-belly justifications starting around the Boer war, disproved in the world wars, and resurrected by the boomers, who plugged it into the bureaucracy at the right time (the close combat squads initiative in mid-late GWOT) for inertia to carry it over past their retirements into the next generation.ISCR came first. Then NGSW. The sole factor unifying all proposals was the demand for a big bore bullet. Only the justifications changed. In GWOT Iraq it was about big bullet stopping power for CQB, in Afghanistan it was long range overmatch, when Afghanistan ended it was about piercing Chinese body armor (which was defined as NIJ Level 3 if you search the Congressional hearings lmao).
>>64608155>Its something like 30% better dispersion beyond 600 yardsThat's bullshit, the only way you could possibly come up with a number like that is by comparing the dodgiest belted surp .308 from the 50s to handloaded sneedmore match ammo. Comparing like for like, you'll have a little less drop and a little less drift, both of which a moderately skilled marksman can account for. I'm not trying to claim that .308 is superior, but throwing out a stockpile of tens or hundreds of millions of rounds of .308 because you want to use a holdover 1 MOA higher is abject stupidity.>They took more than a pound out of the receiver to make it lighter but OK that material is keeping your barrel straightThe new one is less inaccurate because of reduced whip from the shorter barrel.
>>64608263>it does out perform 5.56What does "outperform" mean? If it just means energy, there's lots of cartridges that "outperform" 5.56, including the cartridge that 5.56 largely replaced.
>>64603170>>64606280his videos on homesteading from like 15 years ago show his wife
Remember if they had just gone with the RM227 none of this would be an issue
>>64608391If it didn't have a second charging handle for no reason, you wouldn't have to worry about the pointless second charging handle snapping off.
>>64604369>240 barel swapThat was only possible with the TV cartridge as the 227 would grenade the barrel. You also didn't even need to swap calibers as you can get 90% of the TV 6.8 by running 7.62 polymer case which is already on the market and works fine. You could even help out the M4s and 249s as 5.56 ammo is also available.
>>64608405yeah but the only selling point of the SIG was you didn't have to retrain guys. Since you know telling someone to pull a lever with a hand at the front of the weapon is such an insurmountable task for TRADOC to manage.
>>64608406You'd think that when buying a new barrel, you could get one that can handle a higher pressure. You know, like maybe have it made out of the stuff that the M7 barrel is made out of that doesn't explode when you shoot the M7's ammo in it. It's a revolutionary idea, I know.
>>64608414There was also the part where it was just a boring piece of shit worse than the M4 and not an unsalvageable piece of shit even worse than the M7 and abandoned by its designer. That was the selling point that got it adopted.
>>64608420or they could have just issued TV's 7.62 ammo and not needed the barrel change at all while still reaping the benefits
>>64608434Obviously the Army doesn't consider light weight a feature or they would have just not adopted the M7.
>>64608447Idk anon a MG running cool enough you can stick your finger in the chamber after shooting qual without it turning into a hot dog is pretty useful to me. Im sure the A gunner and ammo bearer would appreciate the lighter ammo to say nothing about air lift.
>>64608461And having 50% more ammo while cutting a couple of pounds off your total load sounds like a great deal to me, and yet the Army isn't adopting the M4 to replace the M7. Yet.
>>64607657weird seeing a /k/ thread im in being sited in a news article, but here we are
>>64608556The thread wasn't cited, but the author does have multiple recent articles with single-digit views that appear to be summaries of recent /k/ threads.
>>64603111We should have gone with Steyr ACR. We could have been shooting armor piercing flechettes in the 90's.
>>64608406>only possible with the TV cartridge as the 227 would grenade the barrel.LMAO no it wouldn't sperglord 7.62 nato barrels are already proofed beyond 80k psi. The 240 is an old school box receiver gun. There's PLENTY of mass in the gun to run a mildly higher pressure cartridge. People acting like the sig loads, which have already been backed down to 70k over accuracy issues, are nuclear rounds are retarded. Especially since they're slurping up SIG advertisements about how only their gun can handle it even though other companies already make ar10s chambered in it.
>>64608637The flechettes didn't work, but a Steyr ACR chambered for a 55gr .204 caliber VLD with their telescoped case would have been kino.
>>64608651>People acting like the sig loads, which have already been backed down to 70k over accuracy issuesThey're back up to 77k to compensate for the velocity lost by cutting the barrel shorter. And Sig is teasing the idea of turning the pressure up even higher so they can keep cutting it shorter.
>>64608683I don't recall the exact reason, was it manufacturing issues or just flechettes not working at that scale? I feel like square-cube law would say they should work though by the same logic there's much less material to erode
>>64608706They were horribly inaccurate. People try to blame it on quality issues with the case caps or the sabots, but the reality is that reasonably accurate CT cases and saboted small arms cartridges exist, but no one has ever once succeeded in making a fin stabilized flechette without measuring the accuracy in degrees. Just because they work out of tank guns doesn't mean the design scales down to a rifle, as much as I wish it did.They also didn't have close to the BC and downrange energy that were expected, but I'll chalk that up to not stabilizing well. The AAI ACR had all the same problems with their flechette load despite using a conventional case.
>>64603804>Either way, it was always a retarded ideaYes>a rifle built specifically for long range sharpshootingdullshooting* with how shit its accuracy is. 4 moa with match ammo is a joke for what's supposed to be a long range (it isnt), armor piercing (it doesn't) rifle.
>>64604676part of the problem with the s300 cost wise was just part of the early adopter tax. If anything rather than the NGSW, there should have been a trial to see if anyone else could offer something with comparable or better performance as the S300 for cheaper, but that would have been too pragmatic for the corrupt fucks in charge of procurement.
>>64608651Proof pressure is by definition not normal operating pressure. If you fed an unmodified 7.62 NATO rifle 80k PSI rounds regularly, it would tear itself apart in a couple of mags.
>>64603516Those are happening so that the people who donate feel like they've achieved something. Ian is a millionare, btw. On top of his books being overfunded by like 90000%, he still gets to sell them and make even more profit. Someone did the numbers on his first book and it netted him 1.8 million.
>>64608414The retraining thing isn't a problem for grunts who do 2 years and leave. It is a problem for longer term soldiers who now need to know two types of rifle.
>>64608960>pulls the same grift as Retro Vidya Jebis by using his influence to inflate the prices on shitty surplus via videos and Rock Island Auction HouseLolLmao evenMaybe a few years ago he was scraping the barrel but now he's got more than enough to last a good while with some miserly antics here and there. Ian is in no position to be crying out for the poor box.
he loves trannies and faggots too
>>64608885So you admit it won't grenade the barrel.
>>64608960>Ian is a millionareBasically anyone with a house is. He was never poor anyway. He built an off grid house in his early 20s before realizing it was retarded and there's no jobs in a bumfuck desert.His house videos were on YouTube they're actually pretty interesting.
>>64608878They're doing that too, there's a bunch of programs for drones running right now. Which makes the NGSW even more silly when you think about it, since they'll have the ability to hit back at 800 yards even without it.But it was never about range anyway, just like it was never about armor penetration. It's about wanting a "real man's cartridge" while also adding a couple of features to justify it as an advancement and not a return to the M14.
>>64609085You don't need a job if you have free solar power and free food crops.
>>64609195>Woah these heckin normal folk fighting the system don't need no capitalism.If you believe he isn't a richfag with the time to fuck around building an experimental house in a place that requires you to be woke to even build in their hippie commune they spent decades and millions of dollars fighting the state to exempt building codes for youre a fucking idiot.Not sure why you're defending him anyway. Nothing wrong with being rich but a 20 something having time and resources to do what he did, even while pretending to poorfag about the lack of jobs, while everyone else can't even pay rent without subletting is laughable to claim as anything but privilege.
>>64603190they're talking about upping the pressure from 80-120kpsi
>>64609261Not that anon and not saying you're wrong, but I'm building a house in the middle of nowhere (while working), I'm about $20k in, realistically about $15k away from being done (although I'd like to imagine it'll only be another $5-7) at which point I'll be off-grid and self sufficient apart from food, and I still owe $30k on the property. It's not as expensive as you make it sound; I certainly couldn't have afforded it with the jobs I had in my 20s, but on the other hand I know 20-somethings who make enough in a year to fund my lifestyle for decades.
>>64609274They're not talking about doing it, they're just saying they could do it without starting over from scratch.
>>64609274125psi is what I saw. Imagine resting your face next to that.
hilarious all the faggots itt that only know IM from youtube (was reading ForgottenWeapons site in late 2000s when his videos only got a couple thousand views)+ nuSIG shills that continue to dilate and mald/k/ userbase in 2025 = brainlet videogamer sub-retard nonhuman protoplasm>hurr durr he's a fag that supports antifa and muh other larpstreamer e-celebs blew him tfo waaaaaaahhWAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHPost some more Ianseethe below this line you total loser trannies are entertaining _____________________________________________
