Post gear, discuss gear.Special edition: Adventure and apparelOld: >>64588756
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Quick and dirty "what plates should I buy on a budget?"SRT (M855A1): Hesco T212.Level III + M855: Expired Hesco 3611.Level III + M855A1: Hesco 3411 or LTC 19513. 3411 is preferable. Wildcard Protech 2120-5.Level IV: Hesco 4403. If broke Gilliam 1023.Level IV + M993 / Swiss P AP: Gilliam 8002.Level IV + M2AP going really fast: Protech 2230Last time on /gq/, Highcom released another budget Level IV - except this time it's 1.25" thicc, heavy, and single curve for over $300 a pair. I took a bet on whether the Russian BR5+ Granits will actually stop 7N37 if they're backed with soft armor and a CAP. Anons found out residential doors can be kicked in with zero effort by mall ninjas and gangsters, and BASED Botach is selling a surplus 50lb battering ram. Rusanon debated with "hohol simps" about van kidnappings and the meaning of Ukraine. RMA Armament said that if you want drop protection on the 1165, buy a trauma pad and put it IN FRONT of the plate. A2Grip likes correctly-oriented handles to protect his wrists, and Anon listened to several armor autists rattle off for hours about how bad RMA is, and then decided to buy the worst plates RMA had to offer. Hesco apparently has a 3.8lb boron carbide M855A1 stopper, including a 4lb buoyant version for over $4,000 a pair, and Turtle Armor from Germany came out with a cheat ringed 8lb Swiss P AP plate and an all-PE plate that stops M855 at 3.7lb. Finally, we debated as to whether hexagons or squares are better.RMA is still ass. Safelife is also pretty ass. Dayton is ass but for people with money. Tac 11 is really overpriced.
>>64611643>Old statistics and fighting the last war. Apart from the 7N10, which is practically equal to M855A1, literally everything the Chinese and Russians use is hotter. There are also a lot of hotter CONUS threats.7N10 is more like M855, I think you might be referring to 7N10M - the newer modernized variant that is closer to M855A1. Considering these are both B4C plates, their performance is going to be poor against the new tungsten core 7N39, or even the older 7N24 / 7N24M. They aren't even rated for BZ API, so they aren't suitable for OCONUS unless threat level is relatively low.IMO, the SC3812 is probably built for a DEA or FBI contract as a replacement for the LTC 23800 or another fed-special M855A1 plate. 3.8lb is a good weight. The FXR-Bravo positively buoyant version is like a Maritime Buoyant Plate but with extra headroom, so I could see it appealing to a niche SOCOM req even though it can't explicitly handle BZ API. Allegedly Armor Australia has a positively buoyant Level IV, but as speculated before it's either cheat ringed or extremely thick.
>>64611658AI is getting better at guns, but it looks like they gave the chick a used plate carrier
>>64611832It's the new meta
>>64611832She's still in the fight, bro
>The situation on Naboo has gone full kinetic. Situation normal, all fucked up. I repeat, this is a SNAFU, SNAFU, BROKEN ARROW. WE'VE GOT FIGHTER JETS OVER THEED, HOW THE HELL DID THEY GET THROUGH?
>>64611515>full torso cuts will probably run close to 10lb if not over.Worth. Rifle-rated wraparound protection, with some (on par with pressed PE?) degree of flexibility is worth any money and weight penalty to a dedicated assaulter. >>64611643This. When was the last time a SOCOM-adjacent unit was in a near-peer conflict? Or when a three-letter had to deal with a significant, nation-state-backed armed insurrection?>>64611852I'd read a fanfic about some /k/ommandos unfucking (or fucking up further) the occupation of Naboo. Weird crossover fanfics are my guilty pleasure.
>>64612303>Rifle-rated wraparound protection, with some (on par with pressed PE?) degree of flexibility is worth any money and weight penalty to a dedicated assaulter.Why stop there? Note that as of five years ago, the going rate for Verco was $2,500 for two 10x12s and a carrier, so pic related is running probably $5k in armor.
>>64612351That is really great. I would upgrade my carrier to something like that. Level III+ with greater coverage make a lot of sense.
>>64612611And it's a beefy III+ as well. BFD is low, strong multi-hit, and NIJ certified to .06 as a III.Apparently it was partially designed by Allan Bain, the Dragonskin inventor / Stealth Armor guy, around 2006 to try and get around the patents he gave to Neal - the guy who sold Dragonskin under Pinnacle Armor from 2000-2013. Bain left the project and ran Evolution Armor separately. Around 2015 there was an attempt at a Level IV Verco setup but I don't see it went anywhere.Bain asserted recently on reddit this is similar to his current B4C Dragonskin 3.0, but IMO the Verco seems far more robust. Helps that it's a high-dollar product and can use the best materials, including a novel extra-hard boron carbide.
>>64612668I really do see full coverage as the future. We don't have the kinds of numbers or quality troops like we had in the last world wars, we need to maximize every single person. Just as an American citizen I want as much coverage as I can get so long as it doesn't get too heavy.
>>64611658Nigga rape
>>64612722This is either video game or 70IQ thinking. Armor doesn't make you invulnerable and can actually make it easier to kill you. Exhibit One: https://files.catbox.moe/9ov9cd.mp4The very heavily-armored Turkish infantry were BTFO by unarmored PKK militiamen, as they were too slow, too exhausted, to fight effectively after storming a hill.Many more like this. There's a reason professional SOF all, without exception, pick the lightest plates and helmets they can get away with.
>>64612766>The very heavily-armored Turkish infantry were BTFO by unarmored PKK militiamen, as they were too slow, too exhausted, to fight effectively after storming a hill.According to that logic its better to have no armor which should tell you something about that logic. Did you note the armor we are talking about is called UrbanShield not mountains fighting with goat fuckers shield?>SOF Kit is lightI'm talking about the next world war as in the top world powers clashing in a hot war. What SOF does in actual 3rd world nations fighting people with no domestic production of anything, no intel, no world class training, no satellites, no thermals, etc, doesn't apply to what I'm talking about.
>>64612801lol, this isn't a video game, and you've never run around with a heavy ass "UrbanShield" vest. Urban scholars with switches and dracos are just as likely to hit you in your neck, face, groin, etc. You want decent protection while remaining as mobile as possible, and that applies to cities as well as mountains. Running up a flight of stairs in armor is every bit as taxing as running up a hill.> I'm talking about the next world war If it's anything like Ukraine, almost ALL casualties will be from blast/frag and 1% from small arms, lol. Your ""UrbanShield"" will literally get you killed. Running from a drone is like running from a bear, the slow guy gets hit first.
>>64612816Plates are getting thinner and lighter over time. Material science gets better manufacturing gets better. We have technology like exoskeletons that are being worked on at a good pace. I said the future.>and that applies to cities as well as mountains. Running up a flight of stairs in armor is every bit as taxing as running up a hill.Urban warfare is not the same as mountain warefare and the military has actual mountain divisions with unique training and different equipment lmao. Why do you people come in hot with no idea what you're talking about.
>>64612861> Why do you people come in hot with no idea what you're talking about.Says the retard shilling "UrbanShield" for WWIII?It's almost EXACTLY the wrong type of armor to use. Show plates. > Muh future exoskeletons!There's no way you don't get 100% of your information from video games. > Plates are getting thinner and lighter over time.Not really. There are hard limits in Level IV plates, which is why the 4800 is still 5 pounds, and why the Velsys API-BZ plate is still pretty much the best in its category.
>>64612351>Why stop there?Why indeed? If I was heading into urban CQB, I'd wrap myself in this, slap a couple of rifle plates on top, take an AK-105 in a SAG Mk3 and all the mags and nades I can carry without my knees buckling.On the topic of urban CQB, has anyone here seen the Wagner movie "Best in Hell" (Лyчшиe в Aдy)? On top of being a nail-biting action flick, it's a good bit of gear porn as well. It's up on jewtube in few versions, but I didn't see one with English CC yet.>>64612766>Turkey as an example of anything but fuck-off incompetence and lack of motivation.Obviously, one should train in their gear to the capability standard, which third-world armies never do, hence the results.>professional SOF all, without exceptionlol, lmao even. Professional SOF pick the gear most appropriate to the task at hand from the wide variety available to them. Sometimes it's no armor at all, sometimes it's fuck-off heavy plates, rifle-rated helmets and a shield. Just because most of USSOCOM was running around in 2 plates with 3 mags bullying goat herders for the last 30 years, heavy assaulter gear didn't stop evolving or being useful.>almost ALL casualties will be from blast/frag... and having wraparound hard plates would be actually welcome, because the distribution of frag size and energy doesn't magically stop at the edge between Br2 and Br3.>Running from a drone is like running from a bearThe operator might just decide to chase the fastest guy, as he wishes. You're still not running away from a kamikaze FPV, even in a JPC with 4lb. plates. On the other hand, if you actually get hit, better armor just might save you from the worst of it. I've seen guys walk away from an indirect or just (un)lucky FPV hit, it happens, and with more area armored to a better extent, your chances only increase.>>64613039>Gear isn't progressing outside of vidya!Are you a salty chairborne vet still stuck in the GWOT you lost?
>>64613039Suck start a shotgun before you continue to waste good clean air. Do you think night and thermal vision are just video game gear? What about augmented reality on the battlefield? Drones are sci fi movies? Oh wait because you can see live leak footage of drones on the battlefield right now that's not an outlandish idea.https://mehler-protection.com/body-armour/systems/exom-exoskeleton/https://getinterwoven.com/our-work/saber-military-exoskeleton/https://breakingdefense.com/2019/03/socom-tests-sarcos-exoskeleton-no-it-isnt-iron-man/
>>64613244I just want to add...
>>64612766Alright, I missed this whole debate so I'll address points raised as I see them. Lot of good points.>Armor doesn't make you invulnerableMr. Miyagi sells the world's best plates, they're called no be there. It's easier to not be there if you can move quickly and with less fatigue. Obviously super-high rating plates have a role, for when the threat is present and getting shot is more likely.>There's a reason pro SOF...Correct. They go with the lightest protection that still meets area threat requirements. LTC 28570 is 4.58lb SAPI M and stops B-32 API, no listed variant of Verco stops that threat and the M80A1 stopper weighs 5.9lb 10x12. Major penalty for less protection.>>64612801It's oriented primarily for law enforcement and is not military armor, in spite of the M855A1 / M80A1 protection. I think they canned the Level IV variant for both cost and weight reasons, both good.>>64612861>Plates are getting thinner and lighter over timeA lot of this is deceptive. Consumer-level companies like RMA and Highcom are removing drop protection foam and using nominal sizing (the 10x12 is smaller than 10x12) to create phantom weight savings. Good plates are either trending heavier to handle emerging threats or they're trending lighter - incrementally so as PE improves - to address specific, usually military requirements.>>64613039Correct on all counts. Verco is meant for high-intensity, low duration SWAT stuff. The same role fulfilled in Europe by massive 15x16" full torso plates from Tencate (pic rel M993 LIBA). This is not normal armor, it's stuff you wear for very high risk close quarters work where the guy is two doors down and to the right, but reasons demand you can't always have a suitable shield in front of you (stairs!).>There are hard limits in plates, which is why the 4800 is still 5 pounds, and why the Velsys API-BZ plate is still pretty much the best in its category.Certain manufacturers (Tencate and formerly Ceradyne) can cheat this somewhat.
>>64613374Better hope you don't have to shit.
>>64613083>I'd wrap myself in this, and plates...I went ahead and did some rough math. The M855A1 / M80A1 rated Verco would weigh about 10.5lb for the SAPI Extended full-torso cut, per side. Each deltoid about 2.5-3lb. Abdomen protector probably 4-4.5lb. Looks like separate cummerbund panels so assuming 6x8 another 2.5lb each. I went with the M80A1 / M855A1 MotilityMH and not UrbanShield because a lot of the panels in >>64612351 are ICW and also need soft armor to make rating, so that's another set of weights. Final number is thirty five pounds flat if I lowball all numbers, for armor that cannot stop B-32 API and falls well short of Level IV.You want to wear rifle plates on top of this? This is all B4C and 7N37 will destroy it from massive standoff. Even 7N39 will probably kill it. Flexible rifle armor always comes with a weight penalty, hence why this weighs 5.9lb when an equivalent monolithic would be about 4.3lb 10x12 - maybe even lighter given they use special extra-high-performance B4C.>Just because most of USSOCOM was running around in 2 plates with 3 mags bullying goat herders for the last 30 years...SOCOM has standalone "X-threat" (M993) plates in their inventory, but they almost never use these and they never show up "surplus" in the US market. Only known member of this class is the Ceradyne 2572575 (white swimmer cut, 5.7lb). Reason they never use these is twofold. One is that M993 doesn't proxy well for emerging 7.62x54R. Two is that they're significantly heavier than lower-rating, more relevant plates. 2572575 IIRC coexisted with the Ceradyne 92547, which was a multi-hit Level IV standalone, 5lb swimmer cut. This was the infamous "GEN-III Ceradyne" with all the delaminating bullshit.>and having wraparound hard plates...For low-duration, low-travel urban operations like the SWAT stuff Verco was designed for, absolutely. This has been a constant argument both for and against flexible rifle armor ever since Dragonskin was first developed in 1997.
>>64612722>I really do see full coverage as the futureReturning to this, this isn't really feasible - physically - until we get a ceramic lighter than boron carbide which performs effectively against emerging threats. Last I checked, all research into Boron Suboxide (B6O) produced plates that were up to 15-30% lighter than their B4C equivalents but were much more expensive and had the same tungsten core-induced amorphization weakness. In other words, they'll get their ass beat by modern AP rounds. If you're blowing $8k a set or whatever on 3.5lb badass Level IV plates, you're probably the kind of person to give a shit about well-equipped OPFOR. You're paying $8k a set for armor that get their ass beat by M995.But yes, in theory a B6O version of Verco MotilityMH would be 5lb worst case, 4.13lb best case. On the contrary, a B6O Hesco 4800 Deluxe (4900?) would be sub-4.4lb and deliver higher threat protection with admittedly significantly worse multi-hit.>we need to maximize every single personWe're gonna use standoff munitions, drones, and artillery to bomb the fuck out of the enemy. If the other bastard dies a lot more than our guys, we don't need to be bumping around in 35lb of armor.>Just as an American citizen I want as much coverage as I can get so long as it doesn't get too heavy.Flexible and/or full-torso rifle armor always gets heavy. This Verco stuff is, AFAIK, the absolute top shelf aside from no-show prototypes from Stealth Armor Systems using either B4C Laminate (5-10% weight reduction versus regular B4C) or polycrystalline diamond courtesy of Diamond Age - which met or exceeded B6O with greater hardness and apparently no amorphization problem. I heard second hand DA, now Adept, did look further into polycrystalline diamond but found it cost prohibitive. 10% better performance versus their TiB2-doped SiC, but ten times the strike face cost. Could get the Colossus down to below 5.8lb and it'd perform better, but ~$4.5k a plate is a non-starter.
>>64613244Lastly, these exoskeletons run into the issue of energy density. How are you keeping them charged in the field? Can you keep them charged in the field? How long do they last between charges? If you up the duty cycle, do they run out of charge if you really push them?We need more advanced batteries, plain and simple. The question is how we get a significantly more energy dense battery without safety concerns. Of course, this doesn't matter as long as you keep "sortie duration" low - the same circumstances you'd use the high-coverage Verco stuff for. This stuff all has a role, it's just limited to certain situations. Hate to be cliche, but mission dictates gear.>>64613374Real Stalker hours over here.
>>64613559>Can you keep them charged in the field?That's the neat thing: you don't. Both the German unit that >>64613244 poasted and the Hamari are passive exos, load-bearing frames that transfer the load around the spine and legs straight into the soles. Re-do your napkin math: add ~10kg for the exo, then calculate all external load from the shoulders below at ~30% of its real weight.
>>64613594That solves one problem, but it doesn't address the separate issue of cost. I'll buy your 70% effective weight reduction number just for argument's sake.>scenario timeSo because we're trying to press Verco MotilityMH into an emerging military role, I'm going to select the Level IV variant because B-32 API is a problem and I'd like some extra headroom for 7.62x54R 7N14 / 7N26. If we're pressing for a police role, then contrary to DocGKR .30-06 M2AP is a problem because it's readily available - moreso than M995 / M993 - and has been ever since the 1940s so there's a substantial "dormant" presence even if it statistically never shows up in shootings. It might, at some future point...>AnywaysSo applying the same math for Pangolin but adjusting because the Verco is stronger and handles M80A1, I'm arriving at 6.8lb for the MotilityMH. 40-41lb for the full kit. 62lb with exo, and then isn't counting carrier or pouches or magazines or ammo. Zero sustainment. No helmet. Also the >>64612351 example has shoulder gaps, no femoral protection, no forearm. I'm badgering the issue, I know, but not only is the weight going to continue to stack EVEN if the exos perform perfectly (and that's a big if), the cost is going to be tremendous.Why spend money on this when you could spend it on loitering munitions, drones, artillery that doesn't care about armor in the slightest?
>average soldier 2050
>>64613675I need an exoskeleton to carry all of the batteries for my exoskeleton.
>>64613701Lol. Or if it's a passive exoskeleton, are we carrying spare parts for if it gets hit by fragmentation, shot, damaged, breaks from wear and tear? Even if all this stuff works perfectly as-advertised it's a huge logistical issue.IMHO, the US should crash course boron suboxide and TiB2 production. Split plates two ways. Regular armor uses boron suboxide, get that LSAPI down to 2.8lb and it'll be the perfect do-all plate. ESAPI 4lb flat (ICW soft). Use the TiB2 for a contingency turbo-XSAPI that doesn't get busted out except for emergency situations. 7.5-7.8lb (these numbers are rough) standalone plate that stops very exotic penetrators like .338 7N49 cold.Weights can be reduced further if we find a better backer material than UHMWPE. There were some attempts at M5 fiber, some attempts in the mid-00s with stabilized Zylon, but nothing too widespread. I think in theory if Zylon could be stabilized and integrated with new, 2025-era 6000 series Spectra the LSAPI could no shit be reduced to ~2.5lb and retain M80 / BZ API / M855A1 defeat. Use economies of scale to get the price to something not-absurd like how SAPI did it for B4C-SiC hybrid in 1998.
>>64613642>Why spend money on thisBecause some soldiers are way more valuable.Also, the cost of exos themselves will come down significantly once they're mass-produced (as opposed to artisanal-made today).I'll give you that we probably won't see setups like this on any kind of frontline in this century, baring unexpected advancements in either materials or battery tech (to make active exos viable), but high-stakes low-duration police\COIN work would likely see the adoption of solutions like that as "low-level violence" ramps up in formerly first-world countries. EU is going to have its own "chechen separatists" issue, US is headed for multilateral race war, and "high-stakes police raids" are gonna get really high stakes pretty quick. And police, while they remain such, isn't going to adopt loitering munitions.>>64613721>the US should crash course boron suboxide and TiB2 production.If US could crash course any kind of high-tech production ATM, it would have its own semiconductor fabs again. But yeah, the armor industry is going to keep driving materials research unless and until we get forcefields.
Also, just amending this from last thread, pic related table is wrong and the core weight for 7.62x54R 7N37 is 7.3g per wolfgangross, total bullet weight 11.79g or 11.8g. Speculated numbers for the newer 7N51 long-core (my math) are ~9.1g core, 13.8-14g total. The WW2-era BS-40 API has an 8.1g core, but it's from a time when machining wasn't as good and the penetrator geometry is probably worse. There are apocryphal claims of BS-40 killing ESAPIs around 2003-2006 but none verified. It's vastly outside the Revision A-C ESAPI protective envelope so that's not surprising if true. Since it's WW2 vintage, BS-40 remains the highest small arms OCONUS threat aside from the newer Russian stuff that has yet to filter from Ukraine to other places.
>64613813>Yay me for once again forgetting to save the edits to pictures I'm uploading...>>64613793>Because some soldiers are way more valuable.I don't think a future Switchblade 600 with a MAC or DIME warhead cares as to whether dude in the blown out house is Mobik or Alfa. IMO, this is why I think the Russian efforts into GOST-BR6 plates have stalled. If you need to stop 3x 12.7x108mm B-32 API at 50 meters with sub-17mm BFD, in other words an ISIS execution as an anon put it, there are better things that cash and weight could have been spent out.>Also, the cost of exos themselves...Agreed. Food for thought, an LSAPI is basically a lighter, higher-BFD equivalent to an LTC 28791 or VS-PBZSA. Those are well over $1k a plate, but the LSAPI is $800 a pop because it's bought in bulk. Plan is to make nearly a million of them to equip the close combat force, and that $800 a pop number is just for the first 80,000 or so. ESAPI saw similar cost reductions over time twenty years ago, even though it's a high dollar B4C layup.>but high-stakes low-duration police\COIN work...I can see Mehler Vario leading the charge there. People sleep on them because they're a quiet German outfit and, like quiet US outfits like Protech / Safariland and Point Blank, they don't deal to civilians, but they're arguably up there with Tencate and LTC tech-wise. Rumor has it they have a 7lb SK4++ plate rated to defeat 7.62x51mm DM151, but I've never seen proof the plate really exists. Hell, we just found out the long-rumored Hesco 3885 exists (SC3812) and the LTC 28855 probably does too (24855) so maybe these rumors aren't total hogwash!>US multilateral yada yadaBuffman's testing conclusively shows an XSAPI loses to reloaded steel-core M2AP at around 3,250ft/s. Ditto for the Adept Colossus. This velocity can be readily obtained through reloading M2AP into larger cartridges.>But yeah, the armor industry...The current push is reducing weight much more than raising protection.
Relevant Colossus / XSAPI test data. This makes me giddy my Protech 2230s are tested against M2AP over 3,500ft/s. I'd like to see similar testing done on the Gilliam 8002, because it's facially the most resilient consumer plate in CONUS and the BFD numbers for the Colossus are actually kinda ugly.
is First Spear ceasing civilian sales? so many of their listings now read>RESTOCK STATUS UNKNOWN - secure yours while supplies last!
>>64613880no clue but if I had to make a wild guess I would assume it has something to do with the plastic manufacturing and tariffs
>>64613880Supplier issue maybe?
>>64612351Why isn't deltoid armor more common? Side plates seem pretty popular. Are shots at your side just less likely to go towards your arm/armpit?
>>64614206Its annoying, thats all. Side plates are just extra weight, they arent really physically obtrusive your range of movement, while you feel shoulder guards every time you move your arm. Same reason you never saw the throat yoke in use through most of GWOT, every branch had access to them but made the tacit decision that not having some shit constantly chafing your chin is worth a potential torn carotid. Its people assessing their threat profile (which for flatrange larping, is obviously zero) and deciding they'd rather be less annoyed than more protected.
>>64613908>>64613892Yeah, the tariffs are probably hitting.
Still haven't received my botach plates.
>>64614553When did you order them bro?
>>64614553Email them bro
>>64614206Deltoids are more common with SWAT teams. A lot of pushback against them is for ergonomic reasons per >>64614403and also that the majority of deltoids are only IIIA, so basically useless versus rifle threats. Rifle rated deltoids exist, but they add additional weight.
>>64612766> Shooting someone whos unprepared and not paying attention is a great way to not get shotno way really anon?> SOF (the guys who specialize in shooting people who are unprepared and not paying attention) aren't very worried about getting shotno way really anon?hey unrelated but what do the trench raiders in azov think about wearing armor?
Assuming I already have a leatherman in my pocket, is something like this more useful on a chest rig than a fixed blade?
>>64615632Anon what the fuck are you even asking?Is a pry bar with no leverage better than a pry bar with no leverage but pointier?
>>64615632>Leatherman in pocketPut it on a belt so you dont block a TQ or get shanked by it in a fall>Are prybars more useful than a fixed bladeAbsolutely. I lost my botach prybar on the side of a mountain clearing a jam on a machinegun and miss it all the time. Used that thing to gap doors for breaching, clear heaps of jams on various guns, and even change a spare tire.That said I carry a small fixed blade on the beltline as well for doing things. Big fuckoff fixedblade mostly a meme, fuck getting into a knife fight with anyone
>>64615664This one?https://botach.com/combattle-edc-pocket-pry-bar/?
>>64615694Yeah I just had that jammed in a panel on my molle behind a pouch so you could finger it to pull it out like a SOCP. Should have lanyarded it.Can see it peaking out on my right hand side in picrel
>>64615711Nice, gonna buy one. Thanks chief.>>64614553Are these the 4600s or another option?
>>64615383Did you even watch the video? They were not unprepared or not paying attention. The opposite. It's just that they were just a lot slower and completely flat-footed compared to the chad unarmored militiaman. Their armor didn't help them at all, and contributed to them getting BTFO> the trench raiders in azovDude, almost all of them are dead. And they've always seemed to prefer wearing plate carriers over lots of soft armor, instead of stupid shit like 20 pounds of "Urban Shield" (which might not even stop 7N10M lmao)
>>64615764Yeah id love to find something similarly priced elsewhere since supporting botach is shitty
>>64615992That's a cool pic
>>64615999>CheckedThanks, took a long time to get the dog to correctly do it.
>>64615992>Supporting Botach is shadyThey're like the fun shady uncle that has a long rap sheet, has screwed a lot of people over, but occasionally does you a solid. This recalled Hesco business is sketchy shit, but it's par for the course with these guys.
finally got to try out some of the winter equipment I picked up this year. the snowshoes worked about as well as you can expect in this powdery shit and the mukluks were great.
>>64616738They make modern ones, you know. Plate aluminum and tubing. They work a lot better
>>64616748They don't.The magnesium ones are much lighter for their area. The strap system is also more adjustable and fails less often.The modern ones never last more than a season or two of actual use. Great for larpers and city fags who hit a trail once per season.
>>64616748what the other guy said. and these just look cooler anyways.
>>64615887Lesson of the day, mission dictates armor. The "meta" in one area won't be the meta in another.
>>64614553Week 4 of waiting on my aws order. I ordered from their old site so it's cool I can wait but it is taking longer than they said it would.
>>64615664>I lost my botach prybar on the side of a mountainShould have painted it orange.
>>64616956A crackhead in the depths of the Mojave is currently using it as a shankAlso, semi related, Botach still has a shitload of Hesco 4400s in stock. Expired, recalled plates for $100 a set. 84 sets.>https://surplus.botach.com/gh-armor-systems-4400-series-10x12-lvl-iv-plate-set-police-trade/As said before, these are very likely the same plates Hesco recalled five years ago. They snuck out the back door at Hesco somehow and Botach is now selling them five years later, conveniently right when the warranties are all up.
>>64616970I already have plates but thanks. I used to have this little ~12" prybar and I tried drilling a lanyard hole in it but I broke the bit and it bounced off my glasses.
>>64616999Checked those trips. Sorry 'bout that pry bar. I didn't intend the sketchy ass 4400s at you specifically, just in case anyone was down bad enough that $100 sans shipping is the best they can do. What plates are you rolling?
>>64617023Oh, gotcha. It's pretty tempting though. I keep thinking about that picture with the plate taped to the headrest in some car and I'd like to have a couple for something like that. I just have 4401's nothing special.
>>646170524401s trump 1155s any day of the week. I'd argue better than Highcom 4SAS7s, definitely better than 4SAS4s, and maybe a little better than Protech 2014Gs. Those are solid. For what it's worth, they're just revised versions of the expired plates Botach is selling.The "problem" 4400s, since the ceramic isn't heat treated properly, likely won't make full Level IV if that makes a difference for a project like you propose. I was debating on a pair of the 4600s to replace the L210s I use for abdominal / groin protection. Waiting on anon's test before I spend the $200.
Someone convince me this is a terrible idea.
>>646172881. you have no doors to beat down2. the crowbar looking thing on the end is stupid and uselessBy all means waste $400 + shipping on a glorified paperweight which is going to sit in the corner of your garage gathering dust, but don't post it in these threads because if you do I'll see it and I'll make fun of you
>>646173841. I have been persuaded.2. The crowbar thing is really a "spike" to punch through outward opening doors near the plate, so the door can then be ripped open. The entire premise of the tool is that it fulfills the function of a halligan when you don't have the room to use a halligan, and you can flip it around and also use it as a ram.I just think it's neat, but it is true. I have no doors to beat down.
>>64617288if you're in america you just just buy breaching charges
>>64617412I will simply become Bandito the breaching shotgun extraordinaire
>>64617423
>tfw two chucklenuts go at it for hours about what flavor of body armor will work better in the boog>is ok>homeboy asks about a glorified crowbar>shit's bad don't waste ur moneythis the gq lyfe
>>64617423nice
>>64617455if you want a ram you can just get a PVC pipe and fill it with concretethrow some handles on that bitch and you got a stew goin
>>64617462Well actually the based thing to do is a fence post driver and fill that with concrete. That doesn't get you around the security door issue the rip and ram is designed to handle.Only drawback is the weight. Fifty pounds is ludicrous. I did read about a SWAT team in Montana that homebrewed a four-handle battering ram weighing 150lb, because one time, at some point, somewhere, some absolute evil genius beefed the everloving shit out of a door in the hood. It worked.
>>64617455I stayed out of it because I'm not sure how it works. I fully support the idea of it I just can't speak on the efficacy.
>>64617471good call actually that's a great ideait doesn't take much to make a door harder to breach get some 3-4" carpentry screws on your lock and handle and suddenly it's a pain in the ass
>>64617499Of the body armor discussion or the talk about this 50lb advil dual action prying spike / breaching ram that needs two men to properly operate? I think it could have been useful in this situation:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KI3bIGDxBQ>>64617500Very true, and yet a lot of people don't do that. Most residential doors are basically paper mache. See below videos:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5cJmzyW2BMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqidJhwTk8o
>>64617538>Very true, and yet a lot of people don't do that. Most residential doors are basically paper mache. See below videos:yea that's wild people have no security at all with those plywood doors
>>64617538The latter.
>>64617585>>64617593>meanwhile against a well-fortified doorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET9SNXpeORY
>>64617605
>>64617645Well to be fair that's a little baby ram.. I read about a SWAT team in Montana that was confronted with the (real or hallucinated) issue of heavily reinforced crack dens with lagged steel security doors, so they homebrewed a 150lb four-handle four-man battering ram using two sections of steel train rail welded together or something similar. Another story, but this time from plebbit:>Ghetto security option: I once saw a crack house with the door frame constructed from cut down train track sunk 6 feet into the ground and welded across the top. Hydraulic ram was no match for afro engineering that day. Police could only get in with a cutting torch and it took hours to breach.>I've seen high security doors with multi point locking that vertically engages with the frame but we're talking lifestyles of the rich and famous budget.Anyways, I don't know how common these sorts of reinforcements are, or how they could factor into boog larp.
>>64617672>Anyways, I don't know how common these sorts of reinforcements are, or how they could factor into boog larp.I used to keep some precut pieces of a 2x4 that I could hastily drill to the floor and door with a wedge in the middle. Kept them in the hallway closet with a spare tire. I should do that again.
>>64617690Based
any alibaba links for camo like this?
>>64617725Minecraft man over here.
>harbor freight sells an extendable prybarneatapparently grainger carries halligan bars, too
>>64618081I love harbor freight and chink shit so much its unreal
>>64617725That's not camo
>>64618173im asking for a quinn torque screwdriver for my workbench for christmas desu
>>64618253Just get a wheeler fat wrench.
>>64618261quinn is made in taiwan
>>64618292Oh so now we're avoiding china.
>>64617725>sponge bob chip
>>64616533No, I dont like supporting botach because they are jewish>>64616956I went back and looked exactly for it and it was gone. Winnebago using it as a toothpick>>64617288If you cut the hook off the back youd have an okay ram for $400. But consider just welding up a ram for 1/4 that?>>64617645Ram is in the hips, not in the armsErm epic fail much??>>64618081Thou shall not buy cheap prybars
>>64619018>BotachWould you accept an Aliexpress version of the botach pry bar, sire?>cut the hook offWhat's the plan for outward swinging security bar doors? That's where the rip and ram / pull and pry / sneed and feed is strong.
I'm worried about the increasingly destabilzation of america, I have a decent AR setup and ammo and im working on prepping food and supplies, I've looked over the infographic and found it to be a good foundation on what to look for but was wondering if anons could help answer some questions1. What order would make the most sense to buy gear in, example being plate carrier, belt or rig and what do you reccomend not cheaping out on2. Are III+ plates good enough or should you just go for ceramics3. Does anyone have NVG-90's and would they reccomend them
>>64619342>Would you accept an Aliexpress version of the botach pry bar, sire?What did I just say in my last post about cheap prybars?>Security doorsHammer and pry vs trying to manhandle a ram to fill that role.If you show up with one breaching tool youre going to suffer. Your team should be carrying as much as they can. Injuring yourself trying to jerk off a ram to open a door is hella dumb.>>64619372NVG90 is sort of a meme, you can buy a cheap PVS14 for not much money right now since economy in shamblesYou should be buying ceramic/uhwmpe plates regardless Buy a crye jpc 2.0 and put in some decent plates, backfill needs around that.
>>64617672Y'all are just babies over there. Here's a bit higher-than-average apartment door from one of the major Russian vendors (their site is literally door.ru). It weighs 120 kg, has 38 points of contact with the frame, is covered with Br3 rated steel plate and is installed by sinking rebar through the frame into the walls and then pouring concrete all around. And that's a typical door for an upper-middle class city apartment. My sister and her dentist husband have a door like that, and they're not any kind of criminals or otherwise specially threatened people. It's just that after 70 years of state-mandated inward-opening wooden doors and the lawlessness of the 90s, people invest in physical security.
Anyone find any good deals for gear off of expertvoice?
>>646193721. Priority on good PC and a good set of plates. Highcom / RMA are reddit noob traps. Battle steel is IMO shitty. Gilliam is a wildcard because they change specs too often and are loose with test reports. Hesco / LTC / Protech / Tencate are solid. 3411 handles M855A1 and is NIJ certified as a III. You can still buy III/IV Protech 2230s for $450/set on kekbroker that weigh 7.5lb and stop anything CONUS except exotic tungsten core or .50 BMG.2. You need M855A1 protection CONUS in the event things really go to pot, so that rules out PE plates. Most PE plates still lose to basic M855, so IMO are inadequate even for civil unrest defense given how common green tip is with ARP users.3. NVG-90 is IMO a fuckup and it's rebadged ADNV instead of the ultra-low lux sensor originally advertised. I second A2, buy analog.
>>64619415BR3 is pretty serious 9x21mm, so that rules out kinetic breaching. You're not ramming that, so what would hypothetically be the play here if explosives aren't allowed and a vehicle pull can't be done? I'm curious. Cutting torch? >>64619383Made cheap =/= sold cheap. Correlation =/= causation.
>>64619383>>64619439Thank you for your answers I was looking at crye as a good option earlier, is there any good youtube videos and resources you would suggest for a good overview of popular gear setups and their purpose? I have never bought any kind of tactical gear and I would like to do research on them, for example I only understand how MOLLE systems work in theory but not in practice and I want to avoid any unecessary spending
>>64619456>Erm this prybar is actually punching above its weightUntil you pry something, it snaps with a very sharp edge and impales you because zinglau made it out of melted trash vs heat treated tool steel.>>64619468Youre going to make mistakes, youre going to come back here and someone is going to call your shit stupid. Its fine, none of this is expensive or difficult.>VIDEO???Fuck it if you start here this probably isnt the worse place to end up at if you are starting from square 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw8ICjTX1mA
>>64619468Buy a tool to weave molle like surgical clamps. Also weave it like an S between the item you're attaching and your vest. Don't go straight down or you're risking retention issues.If you're preparing genuinely for civil unrest the gear needs to be dead nuts.I'm not saying cargo cult, but run a JPC 2.0 and focus on gear you think you need. IFAK, radio, TQ, three mags is minimum.
>>64619018>Thou shall not buy cheap prybarsWhtf breaks cheap crowbars? My dumb bunny friend, fucking snapped the iron crowbar right cleaved. >how dumb is he?So dumb, he breaks, loses or covers all his tools in shit!>it is a poor carpenter who blames his toolsYes. But he breaks crowbars.
>>64619481>Buy a tool to weave molle like surgical clamps.Just use your gerber wtf is this post
>>64619477>but he buys Botachyeah mmkay
>>64619485So you have another tool to do the same thing in case ya lose one.
>>64619488You dont own a pair of needle nose pliers?>>64619486Unironically a safer buy than aliexpress prybars
What's wrong with botach? >t-they're j-jewsthat's based though
>>64619456Typically, these kinds of doors are breached using the heavier stuff in the "200% LARP" section of the >>64611680 infographic: gas-powered saws, hydraulic spreaders, cutting torches, even an occasional breaching charge (not in a multi-story appt. building though). Or the assaulters just rappel down from an upper floor or a roof and breach through windows, lol. Even I've trained rappel-and-breach, and I'm mostly a field recon.
>>64619372EDC pistol + hiking gear > AR + kitBut to answer your questions:>1. Chest rig, then plates, then belt line. Be smart and buy a chest rig you can run as a placard on your PC. Belt line is far less significant for a prepared citizen than it is for a professional soldier and is generally gonna be limited to your EDC, a spare mag, and maybe an IFAK/TQ.>2. Ceramics>3. Analog like A2 also said. Seeing PVS-14s on tacswap for 2k regularly, sometimes less. Buyers market rn
>>64619545>Hiking gearAnon should sit in his pissant apartment and camp it wearing armor and eating canned food vs larping as a refugee.>What if his pissant apartment gets blown away by insurgent truckbombs?!?!?!?You dont need gear to be homeless, homeless people do it all the time.https://www.ar15.com/exchange/topicEE.html?t=2560260&f=172&type=1$1800 OBO pvs14
>>64619485>gerberFucking butter knife will do.
>>64619554>You dont need gear to be homeless, homeless people do it all the timeAnything good they have gets stolen and traded for Tranq, or they will. I literally see them sleeping in dirt. You "need" nothing but air to live. Next, you can die from exposure (hot or cold) in a few hours. Thirst will take days, then it's just time to lose weight, while your body eats itself.>breathing>cover/fire>water>rats or miceFucker on 'Alone' ate sauted slugs and won $100k.
>>64619494Gangster A2 playing both sides. botach bad. China bad. Only solution is reducing your poverty through scratch off tickets.>>64619500They're sketchy and have had a bad reputation for a while. Cheap, crappy "battle steel" plates. Expired Hescos, long shipping, lots of chinese equipment, etc.
>>64619554>You dont need gear to be homeless, homeless people do it all the time.Chill bro, nowhere in there did I mention or advocate for buggin out, but bushcraft and medical will probably be far more relevant skills than combat/tactics. Pistols will probably get used before rifles. You should definitely chill in whatever your fortress is, but if you can't patrol and camp overnight the apocalypse is gonna suck>>64619595people get uncomfortable way to easily, but good sleep is critical in a hostile environment. Wild what even one bad night can do to physical and mental performance
>>64618302>now
>>64619613The false dichotomy of prybars>>64619616Plates and a rifle are a great binky for people who arent actually in this to win it. Worst case scenario anon ends up with plates and a rifle that are pretty broadly applicable.Stealth camping , pulling watch and being cold is difficult and most people are infact not that in it to win it. People are lazy and die from walking roads because its that much easier.
>>64619613>Cheap, crappy "battle steel" plates. Expired Hescos, long shipping, lots of chinese equipment, etc.just like... don't buy those then?
>>64619627cool we agree. Now tell me what 77gr you'd stack besides AAC you caucasoidal somalian, I'm curious
>>64619616>chill in whatever your fortress isAppears to be northern AZ rim country. Not the first time.>>64619485
>>64619628Then there's no almost reason to shop at Botach, lol. They made bread on shitplates.
>>64619782wrong as fuck, I got my eberlestock pack from botach and it was like 100 dollars less than the next cheapest option at the time
>>64619782>Then there's no almost reason to shop at BotachThe _one time_ I did, Inwas on a wait list for monthsand then out-of-the-blue got billed w/o notice. Rather off-putting, I say. More that 10yrs ago and I'm still rather chaffed, say I.
>>64619788So they sold you seconds without telling you. Nice brag.
>>64619798brand new, tags and everything
>>64619788Botach is one of those companies that lists in stock but it's not actually in stock. Same thing as optics planet but I think optics planet is getting better.
>>64619824So? Money saved
>>64619828>Money savedNigga if you need x and the company doesn't ship you x it's not about saving money it's about getting what you paid for.
>>64619876what, they don't give you your money back?
>>64619886Sometimes it's a song and dance to get it back. I'd rather not wait a week to find out they don't actually have it in stock and then have to get a refund and order from elsewhere.
>>64619801Not what he meant probably. Seconds could be minor defect, returns, open box, third shift unauthorized, or just straight up counterfeit. Most of those will still have the tag.Since this is the company selling recalled plates with actual unresolved safety issues as GREAT CONDITION / EXPIRED, be ready for anything.>>64619936A lot of places treat it as an interest free loan from you to them.
apologies if it's a dumb question but does anyone recognize the boots? thanks
>>64611832It really nails the faggotry of Recoil magazine, but then again the issues come with good pictures and cool targets.
>>64612351This is just my hockey pads from the 70s. You sort of didn't get much.
>>64617288Anything you could ever use it for is so illegal you'd die of it.
>>64617288You're not gonna carryb50#s very far, Tonto.
>>64620101>WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME?>>64620197Gonna be like Guts with it slung over your back for a hike in the woods.>>64620115This joint can't decide if we're preparing for the boog or not. At one moment we're talking about stopping tungsten 7.62, stealth camping, and pulling watch, the next neon aliexpress camo. Are we the schizos?
>>64619018>Ram is in the hips, not in the armsI'll ram you in the hips if you know what I mean.
>>64620302stop being such a gigantic faggot in here and in /arg/
>>64620302You seem to have touched a panic button if you know what ai means.
>>64620399I'm not doing anything in /arg/.
>>64620302this the gear queers alright
/gq/ I have a confession I bought a crye asr because I I thought its cool. I have no need for it just like it.I have forsaken the proverb of buy what you need for a silly toy. I must sudoku
>>64620505I feel you man. You spent $200 on a lanyard, I'm still debating about pulling the trigger on a $400 battering ram. I dunno why it just speaks to me. It's calling, like eating a greasy taco at Taco Bell just to feel the cool wind of a timely fart.
What else no I need to add to my bag?
>>64620559>a $400 battering ramBuy what you can afford. But don't bitch when it sits there or when you can't resell it for near what you paid.
>>64620705show us ur bag timmy
>>64620719You underestimate my ebay power. I'll... uh... use it for something.
>>64620705Tp for your poopoo. Seriously, add another pair of drawers just in case. They could be spicy and just for ice breakers, but still functional.
>>64620724>wheel nut stuck>I'll finally use me ram!>breaks lug off
>>64620720Its a 13l Arroyo it has a 3 liter bladder, my helo lanyard for the larp, and a rain jacket on the back is my fanny. The fanny has a battery bank, battery shingle, a mirror, headlamp, emergency poncho, a bic lighter, small flashlight.
>>64620732Dude if I'm using a 50lb counter-security door ram on a fucking nut I'll total my car. Frame's gonna be bent like a soda can. Is this what you wanted? to leave me stranded in the scorching heat of Chichuahua as the cabrones de la cartela come down from on high as my only defense is... tp for my poopoo? Is this what the doctor ordered? Is this the state of the gear queers?WHAT TOILET PAPER BRAND IS BEST FOR MY POOPER? ANSWER ME.
>>64620811Charmin for the bear spirit
>>64620827I tried charmin but it got small pieces of paper all in my ass hairs. You got a better one?
>>64620762Two more canteens. 3L isn't gonna be enough trust me
>>64620835So load up my 32 nalgene and silo?
>>64620829A hole in the lid of a 1/2L water bottle if a field bidet. Shave your ass, Sasquatch.
>>64620835Real. I went through my 3l recently and still had a ways to go and I did not enjoy that.
>>64620842that's not gonna be enough bro 10L trust me
Time again.>t. moon rising in Aquarius
>>64620848my ass tender it keeps growibg bakk
>>64619456>BR3 is pretty serious 9x21mm, so that rules out kinetic breaching. You're not ramming that, so what would hypothetically be the play here if explosives aren't allowed and a vehicle pull can't be done? I'm curious. Cutting torch?you stop being technical, get primitive and go around the door through a wall or take out the frame.
>>64619666>MUR with CASVFinally a man of culture
>>64620913The frame is also very robust. How tough are the walls, Rusanon?
>>64620880Have you considered the health benefits of laser surgical hair removal? I mean as a long term bugout tactic, it might be very effective for hygiene. Also, post pic, um for procedure estimate. And don't forget the porn star who had her ahole bleached, but that was purely cosmetic, just sayin'. Not Pamala Anderson, but maybe also Pamala Anderson.
>>64620984>the health benefits of laser surgical hair removalLegit. As a voluntary procedure, all the seals are volunteering. They call it The Clean Sweep. I saw on artical in Military Times, perhaps underreported, but fact.
>>64621069>sealsIt's trending and nit just Navy. The Deltas and Green Berets are signing up. Most specfor are getting on board.
Roast it.
>>64621375Basic Brad gonna shoot 90 rounds then run back to momma but he can't cuz he's dehydrated and didn't get The Clean Sweep.
>>64619545>Be smart>run a chest rig as a placard on your PCChoose one>Belt line is far less significant I see you chose retard
>>64621375>Roast>dual zippersLook like pussy lips. Duct tape over that and get the laser job done for sparklie clean bungus.
This is you when you buy Aliexpress.
>>64620984>procedure estimate.This is great advice. I took several photos of my "back door" (if you know what I mean) from different angles and emailed them to a few local beauty shops (beauty parlors?) for direction on where to go for the procedure. I just used an anonymous Proton account so I wouldn't be embarassed. I'll let you guys know the estimated range for hair removal, because I'm pretty clueless. Hoping they reply soon!>t. my aunt had this done on her chin and loved it
>>64620984You'll make a good war wife anon :)
>>64621713>(you)
>>64621721would
>>64621726What's your AO?
>>64621726>>64621729Anon requested that we stop being fags okay?
>>64621729Chungking Mansions ground floor ask for Angel at Sher-E-Punjab and the "sizeable portions"
>>64621743Okay :)
>>64621762WOULD
>>64621762What's happening here, is she throat swabbing the recoil buffer tube?
>>64621769Some girls can deep throat an entire sopmod.
She's got that throat weld going on
>>64621769Yes but my cock and balls are the buffer tube
>>64621801Sir I just got results in u are the father
>>64621801The elcan on a .308 goes pretty hard.
>>64621802>u are the fatherDoes this mean he's screwing his wife's daughter?
>>64618250says you.
>>64621813He's been screwing his daughter's mother.
>>64621989Sick fuck.
>>64621494What are you running that doesn't turn into a placard? You'd have to be deliberately avoiding it. And unless you run plates 100% of the time, placard is so convenient so you don't have to transfer comms/medical back and forth. What alternative are you even proposing?>>Belt line is far less significantPOU here for a prepared private citizen will be throw on PC, grab rifle. If you're in some form of sustained conflict where you're fighting everyday, then belt is more relevant but still less consequential than your chest rig/load. How much nuance can there be to pistol, IFAK, spare mags, and maybe a dump pouch?
>>64622032Get a placard for you carrier, chest rigs have shitty interfaces to carriers and is not as form fitting. I had the same idea when I started out and greatly disliked the results trying to make it work. Moving mags and radios is easy. A little planning with comms stuff makes it easy to swap. IFAK and dump should always be on your belt in my view. I'm not the final say on anything just how I like to do it. I don't care if you run the pouches even just one or two through a leather belt you have until you get a proper one. There is only so much space before your front and sides get cumbersome unless you are talking about the old school large chest rigs. Having IFAK, mags, dump, multitool, is so nice to have on the belt. Even holds gas masks well with a thigh strap. Belt also works the same muscle memory if you rock a PC or switch to the chest rig and everything is in the same place. You can even run the belt by itself which is what you see at competitions because belts fuck. Cowboys used gun belts.
>>64620927Depends on the tech\series of the building. In pre-revolutionary or Stalin-era houses, a load-bearing wall can be up to a meter of brickwork, usually a bit less. The inner partitions, incl. the walls the apartment doors are typically set in, are most often a brick or two wide, so around a foot of thickness. The Kruschev-era brick 5-storeys also have outer walls that are 0.50-1m thick, depending on the year and region, and internal partitions up to two bricks wide. But these were always the poor housing and not likely to have such a door in the first place, and they are officially deprecated now, getting demolished for new construction. Later, Brezhnev and after panel housing is interesting. It's made up of pre-fabbed panels based on 120mm thick slab of reinforced concrete, but the load-bearing element is the separate reinforced concrete frame. This is the most common construction tech since the 70s and up to today, so it's most likely that a reinforced apartment door would be set in such a wall. Later-year panels boosted both the concrete thickness and the insulation, one could be looking at up to 200mm of steel-reinforced concrete in some places. Y'all have seen these kinds of houses remain standing after tanking a FAB or two, or getting a few appartments BTFO by direct tank fire.The new hotness, especially for the more expensive apartments, is monolithic construction, where concrete is poured in place floor-by-floor around a welded rebar substructure. A load-bearing wall in such a house is often around 30-50cm of heavily-reinforced concrete with lots of rebar, or a square column up to a meter wide, and the load-bearing elements are mostly internal. In such a building, the likelihood that an expensive armored door is set in the thickest, heaviest wall of the entire building is very high.Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
>>64621992Twist, he could be screwing someone else's daughter's mother and still be the father. It's happened before.
>>64619666can you explain the dangling mag in the front of the belt? I have never seen anyone set it up like that before.
>>64622350It's Blue Force Gear MARCO, a dispenser for smol chemlights, very useful for marking areas at night. Unfortunately, the appropriate size mini-chemlights are hard to get outside of US.
>>64622350>>64622388in the gwot guys would just cut q-tips in half, crack a chemlight of choice, douse them, and keep them in their dump pouchso you can do that if you're cheap lol
>>64615632>riced out flathead screwdriver with a kydex holsterThat will be $400 please
>>64622388I thought raves were popular in Europe still.
>>64622103>chest rigs have shitty interfaces to carriers and is not as form fittingCalling bullshit on this - as long as the chest rig is set up for swift clips, I've never had a single one fit weird. I even modded an old chicom type 56 with swiftclips to use as a placard and it plays well with my slick, so if you're using a modern chest rig that won't interface properly, throw it out and we'll be back to common ground on chest rigs/PCs. >Cowboys used gun beltsAnd this was badass and practical at the time, but I'm approaching this from prepared citizen side, not full scale combat or competition.>Belt also works the same muscle memoryNot if you're switching from AIWB concealed/EDC to an OWB holster with level II retention at the 3-4 o'clock. I DO believe in almost always reloading from the belt/back pocket (or front pocket for pistol mags). But I only need 1-2 pouches at most for that (I personally run a single rifle and 2x pistol). Add IFAK (no arguments there) and leatherman sure, but I could easily jam an AR mag in back left and IFAK in back right and be good (EDC pistol mag in front left). >Dump pouchOne of the greatest memes that you should not be using unless you like foamies and 9mm casings in your PMAG's feed lips. You need a space for one, maybe two empty mags, but ultimately you should be placing empties back in your carrier. Turn em backwards or upside down idc, but leaving a mag pouch empty and open is a recipe for disaster especially at night. Even with a flapped pouch, shit will get in there and cause malfunctions. So dump pouches aren't just impractical but actually dangerous imo. Your back pocket will work just fine to retain 1-2 mags while you manage the rest. The ONLY dump pouch I'll tolerate is the BFG mini dump pouch because it takes up virtually zero space on the belt and stows very small. >>64622256>reinforced concrete/steel/masonry constructionIf Russian houses built like data centers & parking garages, good luck forcing entry
>>64615632>pry baryes>that pry barno
>>64619666What holster is that?
>>64622646>One of the greatest memes that you should not be using unless you like foamies and 9mm casings in your PMAG's feed lipswhy would 9mm casings and ear plugs be in my dump pouch? I use surefire EP's, i'm not poor>you need space for one, maybe two empty mags, but ultimately you should be placing empties back in your carrierthere are a shitton of administrative tasks that a dump pouch is great for when you have 26lb of gear on and a rifle across you>So dump pouches aren't just impractical but actually dangerous imothis is actually a legitimately retarded opinion. what the fuck is the danger? I have two dump pouches on my belt. Both of them take up zero space because they're the flatline fiber ones, and neither of them have ever even vaguely given me a problem and I've been shooting 2-gun action matches for years
>>64623075>why would 9mm casings and ear plugs be in my dump pouch?>I've been shooting 2-gun action matches for yearsThere's your answer, you don't shoot around other people who are also shooting, and the shooting you do is in a relatively sterile environment. Go do an FTX or something more organic and see if you like crawling around with two dump pouches deployed>>64622708custom level II bc I couldn't get safarilands to work with my P80/VIR II combo. Don't be like me, just get a normal gun and compatible safariland>>64622707I'm well aware how useless this is compared to a halligan/kelly tool, but others on the team are assigned to carry that. At most, I just need something to gap doors and capture progress, tho there's a lotta small things to pry this is perfect for. Plus it's a flathead screwdriver
>>64623194I'm a range officer as well as a shooter for most of these matches so I'm standing next to people shooting for eight hours getting pelted with brassbut match shooting is not the only thing I do, I've still never had problems with my dump pouches other than being sleep deprived and smashing a magazine in the doorframe of my car getting into it in full kit, the solution to which is simply "don't be retarded and either collapse the pouch or hold it while you get in"it's fine to not want to use dump pouches but insinuating that they'll get you "kilt in the sheets" is just stupidit's like saying helmet/torso scrim is useless because you'll die from getting caught up on a branch
>>64623227>"don't be retarded and either collapse the pouch or hold it while you get in"I can respect this and get where you're coming from. I'll readily admit dump pouches are convenient and have uses beyond collecting empty mags. For this reason I keep my dangler pouch empty* in case my back pocket is never enough. But from things I've seen over the years (and as recently as last month), I am currently in the 're-index empties asap' camp, and a dedicated dump pouch ends up being weight, bulk/belt estate I'd rather reclaim. >*dangler has a IIIA insert, so it still serves a purpose when empty. No need to store IFAK/med supplies there bc I have a full one tucked above it
>>64623274as a concession I also rarely use my support-side dump pouch for magazines because I usually just stick them inside the little thong on the inside of my LV119 to avoid being repeatedly struck in the nuts by a magazine while runningi would also say that the use of a dump pouch is irritating if you don't have suspenders or a huge ass since they uniquely yank your belt while runningon a list of weird shit I do, dump pouches are far lower than my paracord back panel chemlight acces system that I rigged
>>64623300>paracord back panel chemlight acces system that I riggedbro post this shit please, I just caved and went BFG MARCO but this sounds way cooler
>>64622646Alright, but there's gotta be a way to force entry. Gimme the jumbo tools.
>>64622646The funniest thing about panel houses is nowadays you can have a custom-built cottage made out of the same panels major real estate developers use for megablocks. This makes the entire US suburbia-building industry look like babby's first carpentry project.>>64623437There are ways, but none of them are as quick and easy as you're used to. Power tools, explosives, unusual entry angles, rolling in with armor, etc. In the Caucasus specifically, FSB heavies would rather fold the entire house with a few thermobaric RPGs or an autocannon burst from BTR than do sweaty balls-to-crack CQB against towelheads with more explosives than self-preservation instincts.
>>64623327it's hard to explain but basically I have an external chemlight patch on the back panel of the LV119, I tie a length of paracord onto the chemlight, then tie the other end into a loop and tuck it under the shoulder strap or through the webbing loop that my PTT's on depending on the shoulderFrom there you can just untuck it and yank it, and you'll have a buzzsaw chemlight ready to go without someone else pulliing it out for you or an unzipped back panel flopping aroundYou can cut halfway through the chemlight's plastic tie-off loop if you want to pop the paracord off after you've deployed itOne thing I did do before a night match was tie specific knots in the string so that I'd have a tactile cue on the paracord to know whether I was pulling a vis or IR chemlight, but you could also just separate them by shoulders. Same thing would probably work underneath the zip-on back panel, just sticking as many chemlights through the MOLLE, but realistically i don't need more than 3-4 chemlights at a time. Basically everything in my back panel is meant to be able to be deployed without removing the PC.
>>64623504Chemlight pull is a neat idea, though I'd forego the panel and wedge em closer to the body to reduce snag hazard. Going for volume here so MARCO it is
>>64617645Come eat ur borgar
>>64623485Looks like something I would build in a videogame.
>>64622388I have about 60 of those mini-chemlights. While on a MEU we had an issue with Marines throwing them overboard so all chemlights got locked in the armory. While cleaning up I grabbed whatever was leftover and I have no idea what to do with them.
>>64624223>we had an issue with Marines throwing them overboardBut why?>>64623504>but realistically i don't need more than 3-4 chemlights at a timeAlways more than you need
>>64624132Pretty sure I built that in Minecraft with the Industrialcraft mod back in 2012 to contain a nuclear reactor I was running way too hot on a redstone timer.I blew that shit up harder than RMA blew up the 1155 plate suspension.
I finally got some overwhites. I'm probably not going to use the mitten covers much (if at all) but I decided I might as well get the whole set.
>>64624033This my doordasher after he pulls up and my card declines
>>64623485I'm a second story man, coming in the the left window.
>>64623437>jumbo toolsJaws of Life cannot be deefeated.
>>64624430Did you get The Clean Sweep?
>>64624351>Andromeda StrainThe first one was best one.
>>64624438Replies from Beauty Salons have left me... unsettled. Did get a phn #. Raises more questions.
>>64624443You need to head to your chinatown. Get clean sweep, sucky sucky, and rubby rubby all in one package for row price.If you not pay they either put your kidney on ice and throw you hog-tied in the river or send you to sham shui po to work the 9-9-6 making knockoff iphones and cannibalizing old car batteries to make into "refurb" ebike battery packs.You want rubby rubby? You pray dangerous game. Like russian roulette with glock 19.
>>64612303>I'd read a fanfic about some /k/ommandos unfucking (or fucking up further) the occupation of Naboo. Weird crossover fanfics are my guilty pleasure.Any writeanons itt?
>>64617725>Creeper Camo
Botach 4600 anon, you get your plates in yet?
What's the company that makes those little hooks you put on your carrier to keep your backpack's straps in line with your PC's straps?
>>64614553cancel your order
Mjolner's back. Their website 404'd in October and their 3.74lb full coverage Level IV plates have still not reached OPERATIONAL MATURITY. That's in Q1 2026.>Before Mjolner, we were end users of ballistic PPE ourselves. We relied on this critical component of our kit in real-world environments, where compromise is not an option. That experience drives our philosophy today: we do not tolerate gear that “copes” with threats.>copes>As a Material Science Disruptor, we innovate relentlessly to deliver next generation material technologies to our customers in executing their most challenging missions. Our R&D is not an afterthought- it is the core of everything we do.>We don’t just manufacture ballistic products. We engineer protection.So you can't buy anything from them yet, it's all "deploying" in 2026. Red flag #1. First off, their Mk1 helmet is rated to NIJ 0101.07 RF2 and VPAM PM-8, so 7.62x51mm M80 / 5.56 M855 / M193 AND 7.62x39mm BZ API, all under 3.3lb AND "poing blank BFD< 15mm.">poingA special order version rated to NIJ IV / VPAM PM-10 (3x B-32 API) under 4.18lb will also be available in Q4 2026, plus a SLAAP-esque plate to boost the BZ API Mk1 to Level IV for 0.55lb.>this is technically impossible given current materials but ok>now what about body armor?In Q1 2026, their new RF3+ plate will reach OPERATIONAL MATURITY. 0.6" thick, standalone, under 4.4lb, full protection against 7.62x51mm M993. Their technology to pull this off?>COMING NEXT WEEK(don't ask how they solved the boron carbide amorphization problem)https://www.mjolnersystems.com/body-protection
>>64622646Its costs very little to get a dedicated placard and pouches. Yes I have swift clips. Maybe its because I use ROC buckles and you seem to use velcro it works better for your plate carrier. I have a cheap friend who does the chest rig over plate carrier with straps and it looks ghetto and bugs me. >Not if you're switching from AIWB concealed/EDC to an OWB holsterYou're being obtuse.>dump pouch hate Wild take. You can run full tilt with a dump pouch full of mags. Yes it flops into your leg/butt a bit but its not causing real problems. Fine motor skills go out the door under duress having to reindex every mag into the front and side of your plate carrier does not seem like a good idea under fire. It shifts your focus. They are also good for temporarily storing bigger random things you might be using like binoculars.>shit getting into your mags from dump pouchI have no clue what you are talking about. After I'm done shooting the drill the mags come out of the dump pouch. I've never had shit jammed in my pmags feed lips. My dumpper does have a cover maybe you just bought a bad dump pouch.
This hohol is double cheeked up on the battlefield with dump pouches. What's your excuse?
>>64625324I dont do SSE. That guy is collecting up phones, radios, maps, diaries, all sorts of bullshit off of both corpses and captures. I only need to worry about a place for spent mags and maybe a water bottle.
>>64625324>>64625369Out there in the trenches (and presumably out there in the Great Big Igloo), sustainment becomes a huge concern. When your primary supply line is a roflcopter dropping 10lb. of steklomoy maybe every other night, like it or not, you're doing SSE on the opps' water, food, ammo and pr0n mags, or you're suffering. Also, not having "recon" in your job description won't save you from getting yelled at by the sarge for not bringing back any and all intel and usable gear you could. You gotta stop kvetching and love the dump pouch.
>>64625401that's why you carry two (2) tactical garbage bags in your bag if you really lootbagmaxx
>>64625405>tactical garbage bagsIf it doesn't cost $300 a piece from blue force gear I don't want it.
>>64625369Do you think one water bottle stands a chance?
>>64625405>two (2)For me, it's at least 3* 200L "bodybags" (construction-grade garbage bags big enough to actually fit a body in kit), and that's on exercises. These are really multi-purpose, up to and including airing them up to make a float and ford a river. But dragging them around when laden is a PITA, unless you brought a portable CASEVAC stretcher. You DID bring the portable stretcher, did you, anon?I used to have a packable duffel out of 200D Cordura in the 40-50L range, but I've gave it away to a buddy in need and never really found a replacement. It was a cute little thing when folded, the size of an average book.
>>64625437those sound good I mostly use my tactical garbage bags to store my soiled underwear- I mean if my sockies or if something gets wet until I can stop and hang it up to dry so it doesn't annihilate everything>You DID bring the portable stretcher, did you, anon?just cut down two poles and lash them together with paracord where is your god dang field craft!?
>>64625409crye brand tactical mud repellent bags now for a paltry $399 once you buy you'll crye about how much you spent
Recommend me LPVO, thing to put thing on top of LPVO, thing that goes on top of LPVOAnd why is it better than Romeo + Juliet sights
>>64625465>if my sockies or if something gets wet until I can stop and hang it up to dry so it doesn't annihilate everythingI just hang them on the outside of my backpack so they air-dry while I walk.>just cut down two poles and lash them together with paracord Have you tried it? Do you know how much time and paracord it takes to improvise a decent stretcher that a body won't stick through? You didn't really drill CASEVAC with your team, did you, anon? Did you at least practice your ties and knots with your girlfriend (male)?Or you can just unroll a pre-made piece of nylon that's the size of a large dangler when packed, drop your downed buddy or bulging loot sack onto it, grab the comfortable handles and be off the X in seconds. And then, maybe if you need to traverse a lot of terrain with the load, stick a couple of poles through those same handles and get almost a hammock that can be shouldered by four at a walking pace, or slowly dragged travois-style by two.
>>64625282It's a fraud site. They're trying to scam defense investors who don't know anything about body armor. They might even post test results on super-cheat-ringed plates to continue the scam and drum up more low-IQ dollars, but they'll never actually sell anything to normal people. The way you know this for 100% certain is that they claim they can make an alumina Level 4 plate at "less than 4.85 pounds." (Assuming SAPI M & Full Coverage.)" Even the RMA 1165 Gen 2 "Shooter's Cut" which is practically 9x11", has no drop foam, literally cuts ever corner possible, is nearly 6 pounds. At SAPI M, the ceramic strike-face by itself is definitely over 4 pounds just by itself."Mjolner" is straight-up fraud, bro.
>>64625747I will laugh my ass off if someone emails them these cold hard facts and they try to concoct a response. The weights are very consistent with American Blast-style cheat ringing. My bet is they won't respond, a la Apex and Highcum with the RCH helmet's contradictory specs.contact@mjolnersystems.com
So does the RMA XRT use fiberglass? Just read this from Buff on plebbit:>"I’ve already destroyed one set for R&D. They are on par with the 3S9M threat wise. I would have preferred a UHMWPE backer but the material they chose seems to work for BFD and some threat control. At 199 if you don’t want level IV these are a hard look. RMA needs to CPL them."That would explain why they're $300 a set now. RMA says "Ceramic & UHMWPE" so uh, lol.
>>64624638fuck. my nephew and his friends said the same thing.
LTC 26135? Not on the list but fairly thin and fairly low weight + multicurve for budget IV plates.
Trex is now shilling civilian legal breaching charges using black powder. They aren't very good.Door is residential-grade outside door screwed into place without hinges. They deliberately placed the charge in the center versus near the lock so they could reuse the door frame. I'm not impressed.https://iwainternationalinc.com/door-breaching-charge/
>>64626590>LTC 26135No-go. It's an antiquated 0101.04 model from way back in the day. It's thin and relatively low weight because it omits drop foam and is not required to pass the modern conditioning tests of 0101.06, including the drop test and conditioned shot tests. It is also not actively certified to any standard (vendors are often wrong about this) because 0101.04 hasn't been active since 2008.Best alternative is the Hesco 4403MC. I know it's a heavier plate, but unlike the LTC 26605, RMA 1155 GEN2, or Highcom 4S17M it has no strings attached. It's an actively certified 0101.06 plate with good multi-hit and a manufacturer that stands by their product and makes things square if they make mistakes, which they did quite a lot in the past.
>>64625369>That guy is collecting up phones, radios, maps, diaries, all sorts of bullshit off of both corpses and captures.If you meant dropped grenade 3 pointers from DJI Swoosh, yeah.>>64625437>You DID bring the portable stretcher, did you, anon?For as nice as a skedco is, we really should be seeing more of these ITThttps://www.chinookmed.com/023319/nar-quick-litter.htmlNo excuses.>>64626593>ye olde pirate charge didnt workYarrr the rum and booty shall remain !
>>64626610Clutch info, thank you. 8-9lb per plate for the 4403 makes me want to say fuck it and drop to a SRT plate. Ideally I want a III+ that’s under 7lb and under 1” for less than $600 a set. That doable?
keep it simple
>>64626634Yarr pirate A2 I'm going to say fuck this and go asshole into debt for a belt of six desert eagles. When one goes dry I just grab the next 'one and continue my max payne type ass plunder yaryaryaryar.>>64626644It's 7.7lb 10x12 shooters (note, this is a reasonably honest 10x12 and not like RMA / Highcom) or 7.9lb SAPI M. The 10x12 for the 26135 is a swimmer so you have less upper coverage but more arm movement. SAPI M for the 26135 is 7.16lb so the 4403 is only 0.7lb heavier.>makes me want to say fuck it and drop to a SRT plateCan you concede reliable protection against .308 and other rifle calibers? That's the question. Most people can't. SRTs are intended for two roles. One, police officers that need reasonably light, affordable plates that can be thrown on quickly for active shooters that are only packing 5.56 and 7.62x39. Two, low profile purposes. They don't make good generalists.>Ideally I want a III+ that’s under 7lb and under 1” for less than $600 a setCouple of options.1. Concede .308 but keep 7.62x54R LPS, raise budget slightly and roll Hesco M210 SRTs. These stop M80 but not six times like a III / "III+" and they piss hot on backface deformation over 44mm, which is a fail.2. Raise budget and thickness tolerance somewhat, go with Hesco 3411s. These are an honest III+ good for M855A1 and BZ API, or six M80 under 44mm BFD with 51mm min. spacing. NIJ certified.3. Wildcard. Gilliam 6001, 6911, or 0425 RF2. See pic related. Gilliam is a relatively unproven company that deals in import (Chinese or Italian) material plates. No NIJ certs but prices are solid. You can guess why.4. Militech RF2 SiC. 4.3lb, 1.04" thick. Chinese but good for M855A1. Used to be cheap but they started tacking on a $150 tariff fee.5. Used Protech 2120-5s. Robust, similar to Hesco 3411, but can be purchased cheaper albeit expired.
>>64626593What in tardation?Feels strange to say this, but Lucas was the bright light in that company, in all of his skinny jeans glory.>>64626634>NAR Quick LitterThat's the McDaddy of them all, I think, but there are newer, nicer models out there. Tubular rubber handgrips over webbing handles alone make night-and-day difference, and a few SRB-clasped straps on top to secure the casualty don't hurt either.Anyway, these are about the easiest "tactical" product a cordura-capable sewing shop can churn out, and I'm pretty sure getting a litter made to order with all of the features would be trivial. My advice is to go for at least 2m*1m dimensions, have 3 or 5 handles per long side (you're not walking at any kind of pace when you're tip-to-butt 4 to a side), have 3 straps with one-way-adjustable SRBs over the top side, and make it out of 200D Cordura and 2" webbing, with picrel grips on the handles. Oh, and don't forget some kind of securement to hold it tight when folded.
>>64626770I wonder if the doorframe excuse was a red herring because they knew it wouldn't breach even if the charge were placed near the lock. For $160 this sucks. Three of these and you got a 50lb battering ram plus shipping.
>>64626800you could just make your own too I think it would work way better if the powder "charge" was fully engulfed in the shell full of water so it actually directs the boom in the proper direction instead of at a weird 90 degree angle since that model has the entire top of the payload open
>>64626823I'm curious as to the benefit of these over a short barrel shotgub with breaching slugs. Even with your proposal, which makes sense, it's still black powder and nowhere par with actual breaching charges.Might as well just shoot the deadbolts, hinges, etc given we're using explosives and it's not going to be quiet.
>>64626800>>64626823Its BP because the OEM (TSFLX of UK) has no restrictions on BP special effects. Stateside it would be far more effective with a fast burning pistol powder and a better vehicle for containment so the escaping pressure is significantly higher.The net explosive weight of either a bp or smokeless charge is well beyond anything you'd ever want to use for breaching or carry on your body so t his is a moot point. Civilians should stick to shotguns.
>>64626859So in conclusion this does suck ass and Trex is shilling 21st century pirate booty LARP. Arrrgh. Botach-Trex collab when.
>>64626858>>64626859if it removes the door and someone on the other side that could be neat but you would probably need a chemist or someone monumentally retarded to test it and all the potential possibilities
>>64626889Yes. Trex lost the only person who knew what was going on (Lucas) and is now in a death spiral. >>64626894Like I said a properly constructed improvised charge is going to be significantly safer than this. This thing is so poorly made its legit insane to handle.A 10oz NEW is like an order of magnitude more than needed for a handle shot.>Killing people on the other sides of doors with breaching chargesBelieve it or not. This is not the function of charges.The original marketing video for this was TSFLX standing too close to a wooden pallet and blowing it in half in slow mo as they clearly step backwards in the "oh shit" moment. It was at that moment that you knew this product was fucked.
>>64626717You are the greatest poster of all time, I thank you for your wisdom. Hesco M210’s might be the play, although I checked out the Militech RF2 and the import tariff fee is only $100 now, making those plates $500 shipped. You’re right that I want some M80 protection, but not sure I need multi hit. RF2’s for $500 a decent move, then?
>>64626908Pity. They were one of the better Hesco dealers. Still not going to top Kota outfitters.
>>64626908I'm not saying that it's working as intended I'm saying you just remove the room and everyone inside>It was at that moment that you knew this product was fucked.lol
>>64626921> I'm saying you just remove the room and everyone insideBut its not even good at that , its blowing in both directions because the tamping is 3d printed and shearing along lines allowing the string bound to blow 50% of that NEW in the wrong direction. If you had 700g correctly tamped charge even bp would fuck some shit up. And [spoiler]you wouldnt need 700g[/spoiler]I joke its pirate breaching because unironically rolling a keg of blackpowder against a wall would probably be more effective.>>64626918Their top level fibbing of the whole lucas is leaving situation shoudl be studied in business schools as a masters in what not to do.
>>64626913Glad to help. That's good news about the Militechs. They have a lot more "proof" than the Gilliam plates and Militech is more established. If you're comfortable buying plates from a no-cert Chinese outfit, then that's the play. 3x 7.62x51 M80 or several M855A1 is solid for that price.Be warned they do NOT provide exactly edge to edge protection. They are slightly cheat ringed, but it's not severe. One of the other regular armor autists rolls Militechs, although I don't recall the model, and I personally use Protechs. Just food for thought.The M210s will not provide reliable .308 protection.
>>64626936>I joke its pirate breaching because unironically rolling a keg of blackpowder against a wall would probably be more effective.next trex offering: tactical propane tanks
>>64626960The black and tan mortar. IRA express delivery. Would unironically buy.
>>64626942Looks like Buffman has a bunch of RF2 vids, I’ve heard his name thrown around and I’ll give them a watch. I’d like to have something that will stop at least one round of 308. Thanks again bro
>>64626969lmaoalready doing better product development than nuage trex
>>64626973The RF2 SiC does really well in his vids. Make sure you're looking at the Silicon Carbide model and not the cheaper Alumina. Just as a sidepoint, Buff is a paid Militech affiliate (among other companies) and he rates their RF3 (Level IV) Black Label higher than any other same rating plate except the RMA 1192 (which was a bogus test the plates were 10oz overweight) , US XSAPI, and Adept Colossus. Ergo it's the best purely Level IV plate, since XSAPI / Colossus are rated for higher threats.He's good for "field" testing data but do NOT use him as an NIJ or lab report substitute. If he contradicts NIJ (RMA 1155 debacle) then NIJ trumps.
>>64627003Yeah, looking at the SiC. Thanks. Didn't realize he was an affiliate though. Another question: they offer three sizes, Medium Shooters, 10x12 Shooters, and Large Shooters. I'm a larger guy (6'5" 225) and while I know the line about 10x12 fitting 95% of guys, do you know if the nominal 10x12 is actually 10x12? Or should I consider the Large Shooters
>>64626975I mean who needs to breach a house when you can blow up the house?https://cat-uxo.com/explosive-hazards/ied/mk-15-improvised-mortar-projected
I just got my botach order in less than a week, never had an issue with them. I fucking love jewish people.
>>64627057Buff is an affiliate with the following guys off the top of my head:1. RMA (he's a huge RMA stan)2. Militech3. Adept4. Stealth Armor Systems5. Spartan Armor6. Chase Tactical / HighcomThere are others as well.>Plate sizingDefinitely size yourself just to be safe. Yes, majority of people take a 10x12. Medium and Large are actually SAPI, not shooters, so there's a less aggressive cut near the top. There will always be some variance since no two manufacturers agree dimensionally on a standard shooters cut. If you need to "force" consistency use SAPI M over 10x12, provided your carrier takes 9.5x12.5. I see Militech has a slight variance but it's not major.
when are tariffs going away so I can buy some militechs for cheapies...?
>>64627094Probably not for a while. Other Chinese dudes will pay duties for you (aka they bake it into the price) but Militech is much more reputable than any other Chinese outfit except Longfri.>>64627057Also, just to clarify, I should have said dudes when I said "people." Female plate sizing is a whole different can of worms.
>>64627105I got a set of their NIJ IV alumina plates (I KNOW, I KNOW...) before tariffs for real cheap, are the RF2 SiC plates they offer a better choice?
>>64627123How long ago before tariffs? Militech stepped up their game around 2019. Before that they were mostly slinging B-grade stuff comparable to LAPG or Battle Steel.The current RF3 Alumina is fine. It's a two hit vs M2AP plate and can handle any non-exotic CONUS threat. Militech advises it has edge to edge protection. The RF2 SiC is considerably lighter, has a small cheat ring, and is multi curve vs single. It also has really good multi hit owing to its hexagonal tile array construction versus M855A1. It is NOT rated for M61 AP, M80A1, B-32 API, or .30-06 M2AP.They fulfill different roles. One isn't an entirely "better" choice than the other. The Militech RF2 SiCs are really good except for that minor cheat ring. They aren't trumped otherwise until you get to the $$$ boron carbide domestic plates like the VS-PBZSA, Tencate CR6450SA, Hesco SC3812, and LTC 28791. Those are big money.Long story short, you're good and have no major reason to upgrade. Are you interested in better than IV protection, or do you really need to drop weight? IMO, that's the roadmap.
>>64627211Bought it sometime in early 2024. Thanks for the info and I think the weight matters more for me
>>64627089Gotcha. I'll remeasure myself tonight to make sure I'm on the right track.
>>64627224The most direct upgrade will then be the Militech RF3 Black Label, which is SiC. Other options for you to consider are Hesco 4601 (NIJ cert plus III and IV rating, but thick), Adept Colossus (sketchy mfg but Swiss P AP / M993 defeat), Gilliam 9969 (also sketchy mfg, light but 1.28" thick and has built in trauma pad)These are all lighter and meet or exceed the rating of the Militech RF3 Alumina.
>>64626859>fast burning pistol powder and a better vehicle for containment so the escaping pressure is significantly higher.You can just make your own using flash powder and use homemade electric match (finally, a use for an M57 firing device). Then you have fixings left over to make fireworks for the next 4th of July. IWA should only be trusted with their smokes and distraction devices, this shit they're making is really pushing the envelope and I fear it's going to fuck them in the end. Too bad real flashbangs or stun grenades aren't sold directly to civilians, there's a growing market for them
>>64627569>Telling anons to build flash powder>Huge quantities of flash powder>electrically primedDevilish>this shit they're making is really pushing the envelope and I fear it's going to fuck them in the endAgreeThankfully their products are just useless enough for this to not happen>Real bangsDoesnt really matter all things considered, outside of being a properly funded unit. At $50-80/ea you're never going to throw enough of them or possess enough of them for them to be useful
>>64627569I agree. Some ass dumb prankster is going to make a tiktok about the breaching charges, some moron kids are going to burn houses down with them in a bastardized version of ding dong ditch, and IWA is going to get sued for it.Then it'll be harder to get pyrotechnics.The breaching charge is basically just lighting $160 on fire anyway. Go buy a good Halligan.
LPVO and dot or hybrid sights?
>>64627618Also the IWA ones are nowhere near an actual flashbang.
>>64627649Aimpoint T2 on a riser>>64627698They arent terrible, ive found the taggins to be a lot more fun imho.Someone threw one at me face, it blew perfectly mid air and it turned off my nods which was an interesting experience
>>64627799>Aimpoint T2 on a riserNigger
>>64627649get the Sig Sauer Romeo 8T-AMR combo
>>64626716> African machete-swordUnfathomably based
>>64627649Compm4s with a magnifier. Also get a lighter mount.
>>64627649Oneleaf thermal. Embrace overmatch... and pack spare batteries.
>>64627836>>64627878Whats the appeal of the dot/holo + magnifier as opposed to LVPO + dot?
>>64627939Better 1x
>>64627939Like the other guy said, a true 1x.
Are there any more modern types of load bearing gear that can have a similar setup to pic rel?
>>64628053SMERSH?
>>64628053Like this?> https://lbtinc.com/products/1961arIt's overpriced...
>>64628070Hmm, I guess SMERSH is somewhat analogous. >>64628073Damn, yeah that's very expensive.
I should say that's very expensive but more what I had in mind. Too much for my blood though.
>>64628053he is an airsofter, but the gear is real. just a crossfire DZ rig and a split front rig kluged together.https://youtu.be/36DQH61yvSs?list=LL
>>64627946>>64627957Probably retarded, but isnt a red dot giving you a true 1x? Im talking about mounting one piggyback.
>>64628121yeah
>>64628053You can get all that on a belt kit but it won't be cheap.
Recs for cheap (=<$200) fairly minimalist comfortable PC that plays well with swimmer/shooter plates? Is the answer just the Slickster
>>64628212defense mechanisms MEPC
>>64628053Just attach H-harness to a belt kit and if you need extra MOLLE add kidney sections
>>64628086Wait for this to come in stock or get the lbt onehttps://awsin.com/50112-military-rigger-shooters-belt/Padded belthttps://www.velsyst.com/products/operator-utility-belt-gen-1Suspendershttps://www.velsyst.com/products/jungle-h-harnessButtpackhttps://www.velsyst.com/products/jungle-butt-pack4x mag poucheshttps://www.velsyst.com/products/jungle-7-62-magazine-pouch?variant=41293333168281Just get surp canteen pouches you don't need to spend a lot on that. It will save you a bit over that lbt kit. You can go cheaper like tactical tailor mag pouches are around $35 so for 4 that's $60 saved.
fastest /gq/ in a while good lord
What is your opinion on buying temu and aliexpress clones of g3 pants. I recently bought 40 dollar clone of g2 and they seem pretty good although i haven't been /out/ yet. I normally wear Helikon-tex bdu mk2 pants in the field
>>64628251People are drawn to the magazine-style OP image. I'll do another one the same way.NEW: >>64628292NEW: >>64628292NEW: >>64628292NEW: >>64628292NEW: >>64628292
