Post gear, discuss gear.Armor Autism = Taco Bell edition.Old: >>64693513
Which is more important to get first, night vision, or thermals?
>>64713335nice, I toss around the idea of putting my side plates on my 119, but they're 6x8s so they won't fit in the spiritus specific pouches. Probably just have to switch up what cummerbund I'm using or just grab some 6x6s and keep the 6x8s in my other kit.
>>64713328That dependsNight vision is way more funThermals are probably a better threat avoidance/ID toolIf I were to do it over again I would have started with bridged NV/thermal instead of getting dual tubes firstBut I did end up with a PVS-21 so I can’t complain
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWFLast time on /gq/, me and Neetmaster waged a battle of the autisms for 200 posts and three days over whether the Hesco 4403 is good or not. Buffman's 4403 test results leaked and the plate's v50 / v100 above Level IV is very bad, and yes it failed on the first shot because it was a hair over 2,910ft/s. An anon bought a pair of Protech 2230s in response for three hundred bucks. Anon wanted a war belt and got offered a skirt. Another anon likes Carraway seeds on pizza. Philly trash sniper learned the ropes of plate construction, and I went on a rant about drop test standards.>QUICK AND DIRTY ARMOR GUIDE 2.1>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 or U211>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612 or 3810High-End: Hesco 3811Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH (ICW IIIA)>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411 or LTC 19513High-End: Tencate CR6450SAElite: VelSys PBZSA or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB (ICW IIIA + M995)>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: RMA SUCKSMid-Range: Used LTC 28550 / 28590 or Highcom 3S9M (SAPI size only!)High-End: Used LTC 28595Elite: Used LTC 28570 or VelSys TSA>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403 (VERY LOW V50 - PROTECH 2230 MOGS)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601High-End: Hesco 4800 (DO NOT DROP) or Protech 9812-R1 (DO NOT DROP)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Gilliam 8002 (M993+) or used Protech 2230 (M2AP at 600ft/s over IV ref. velocity)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (M993+) or used REV. C XSAPI (M993 only)High-End: hot REV. D XSAPI (M993+)Elite: Ceradyne 96034 or other ITSA (M993+ - ?)
>>64713355You could just go super goober and make your own bag caps using nylon webbing and some cordura from Rockywoods or somewhere similar and velcro
Happy 2026 /gq/ fags. Recently bought a Mav88 to fuck around/LARP with on the farm. I have a spare Plate carrier laying around and would love to know if any of y'all have any good suggestions on decent MOLLE12g shotgun shell pouches. I'd like to be able to have like 50+ shells securely attached but readily available
>>64713328They're both cheat codes and technically complement each other. Night vision advances much more slowly so I suggest getting NV first, otherwise you're going to get a thermal early and look like a dunce when the next generation of thermals show up that are better in every way.
>>64713368$12.99 a piece on amazon, holds 25 shells, two columns of MOLLE.
Neetmaster, I have a present for you. Surprise motherfucker.
When does LBT run sales? I want a comfy tiny bag and their 14L is pretty much exactly what I want, but I don't want to spend $210 for it.
How comfy are these if you are getting in and out of vehicles all day? They look promising, and I really don't want to mount an IFAK on my side or the front of my vest because I will be getting in and out of cars all day.
>>64713641fug, forgot to attach it. Ferro Concepts Roll bag
>>64713644>$85.00 for a tube
>>64713657Anything USA made is expensive as fuck for this type of stuff. It comes with the insert at least :/
>>64713641extremely comfortable. can put it front or back of PC depending on what you prefer. basically fits in the natural crevice formed right under the bottom edge of the plate. Only downside is it's tough to fit a whole SIRK in there.
>>64713716Or itt could be less than ten dollars, not counting shipping.
It was never acceptable to buy Chinese gear
>>64713312I want to buy a balaclava for winter. Which one should I buy, the Russian VKBO wool balaclava or German Bundeswehr cold weather balaclava?
>>64713731Good to know. What can you fit in there comfortably anon? I would mount it out back>>64713743Ok, so Chinese slop that falls apart the first week in of getting in and out of my car all day. I am not disagreeing with you that the Ferro one is overpriced, but spending $10 on a bag that may be needed to carry life saving equipment is sketchy.
>tfw you buy a pouch for 12% what it costs for the "real" pouchhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcep9RNJrKQ
>>64713761It's always been acceptable as long as it's not D-grade garbage. Even A2 recs chinese stuff (body armor included!) and he's on that mcdonalds ice cream meister budget.>>64713773>>64713773>Ok, so Chinese slop that falls apart the first week in of getting in and out of my car all dayYeah, that's basically what it is. Even Aliex reviews report the stitching is poor. Stitching alone doesn't justify eight times the price, and if you shop around on Aliex there will be better stitched-exemplars - just as there's shitty SPUDs and not-so-shitty SPUDs, mutants, etc.
More on the roll pouches from the Far East. Better built FMA version is $39 shipped, Ophidian Tactical cheapo version (not the first one) is $9.79 shipped.
>>64713773S roll gauze, z fold gauze, NPA, needle D, elastic bandage wrap, chest seals, TCCC card, small thing of duct tape wrapped around a small sharpie. It's pretty stuffed with that.
>>64713789>always been acceptable>cites A2 recommended plates which have been BTFO performance wise>recommends bottom of the barrel first result trash and then say oh well I didn't mean that garbage, I meant this other garbagefuck off, you cheap fuck
>>64713773>so Chinese slop that falls apart the first week in of getting in and out of my car all dayjust get your wife to fix the stitching for youyou do have a wife who sews for you right?
>>64713857>What is subtle sarcasmThere's a difference between Militech, then Longfri / Battle Steel (which A2 likes) and then American Blast (which A2 rec'd but hasn't in years)>this other garbageChinese sloppa is on a four grade spectrum. This is pretty well established. But by all means, pay at least double for the 'murica tax even when 'murican plates and gear too get btfo'd.>>64713858based
>>647133556x6s are for people who have to wear side plates because their boss told them to but don't actually need side plates6x8 or don't bother desu.
>>647139507x8 or go home.
>>64713389Seems like it would be slow compared to using those velcro shell holders in M4 magazine pouches to keep a loop field on the shotgun stock full.
>>64713976Yeah, but it's a solid bulk solution for a shotgun loadout that won't be exhausted. Fifty shells plus what's on / in the gun won't last long.
>>64713963Army has stopped with that for all the newest production side plates and gone to 6x8.
>>64714012Probably a mistake like the increased BFS limit.
>>64713950Nah, 6x8 plates rub my titties
>>64714188good. oil them up 88 style.
>>64713328NV...obviously can't neglect thermal, but if I had to choose, NV>>64713358fuck yes my boy's gettin it. Feel similarly about my nv/thermal arc. The passthru/beam splitting tech on those 21s is wild. >>64713033underrated post...jamming things like suture kits, mylar blankets, and aquatabs in pockets/pouches is rarely wrong imo. Suture kit doesn't belong in an IFAK specifically but it's smart to have, or at the very least super glue. Would love an aid bag discussion with /bag/ levels of autism centered around limited access critical care...>>64713256It's not so much that I miss mcnig as it is that I miss old /k/...
Hell with this. 8x8 side plates or bust.https://www.ebay.com/itm/306147141366
>>64713389Fanny pack master race
>>64714275>Would love an aid bag discussion with /bag/ levels of autism centered around limited access critical care...Is that even possible? There are unique historical causes of the armor autism epidemic
>>64714275reddit
>>64714275>Would love an aid bag discussion with /bag/ levels of autism centered around limited access critical care...Have you tried going to paramedic school
>>64713360>>QUICK AND DIRTY ARMOR GUIDE 2.1Can you put a star next to which of these are NIJ certified? Because, personally, I'm not interested in anything without appropriate FIT.
>>64714275>>64714320>>64714595I mean my justification for omitting a decomp needle while including a suture kit, iodine-providing wipes, and various other trauma adjacent shit is that it is overwhelmingly likely that any use of my kit will be absent of access to trauma care and more similar to guerilla insurgency than tier 1 highspeed dude shitI only carry stuff that I would definitely foreseeable have to use on myself if I sustained an injury and needed to continue without treatment for 5+ days. SAM splints fit perfectly in the little thong of fabric behind the front plate on an LV119, btwI have like 5 normal IFAKs stored various places like on my non-2GACM match belt, back of my car headrest, etc, for normal “wait for paramedics” useBut I have also held weird as fuck jobs where I was doing my own phlebotomy for research and suturing my own cuts and shit to avoid filing incident paperwork. My latest free sample acquisition is an endoscope and duodenoscope
>>64713567Isnt is 70fps over? Refrence is 2880fps
>>647152892,850-2,910ft/s is the reference range. 2,880+-30. Since this is life-saving gear, and out of caution, the lower of the two chronos should be used.
>>64713567
>>64713358VTAC barricades are the ultimate retard filter.Trees in a forest don't have little slits in them. Rocks don't have neat little windows cut into them. You're not going to lie on your side and shoot underneath a bush either. Literally nothing in the real world looks like a VTAC barricade except rubble. VTAC barricades train people to stand and kneel behind pieces of cover when they should be prone. In any land warfare engagement, after making contact with the enemy the most likely direction from which any supporting enemy force will attack will be your flank. You, standing behind a tree bracing your rifle against a fork taking potshots at where you think the fire is coming from, will get mowed down by a platoon of enemy coming at you from the side whereas you might survive if you were prone and bullets suddenly starting whipping overhead from your flank.
>>64714275>>64714320a few years ago (maybe more recently, I don't frequent the threads like I used to 7-10 years ago) every single /gq/ thread was intense amounts of IFAK autism lead by bunkbedguy. It really gets tiring when the conversation is just the same fucking thing over and over again and should just become its own general if specific anons/tripfags want to discuss those things... much like /bag/ shit is annoying now. Say what you will about a2, at least his posts are relevant and topical to the general he is in
>>64715379no shoot opinion detected. VTAC barricades allow you to conduct standardized assessments of your shooting ability. It's not meant to be a one for one replication of what you'd find in nature but gives you awareness of your ability to engage targets in uncomfortable positions, so that you can apply that when you encounter similar scenarios in the real world. Easy to transport and set up so you can get similar value out of any environment. You can utilize standardized drills and common benchmarks across shooters to compare and improve.Just because someone is using a VTAC does not preclude them from training with additional aids or in real world environments. Maybe you are the retard if your mind works in such a single track manner thinking that is the case. Training to only shoot from the prone is great until you are in a situation where the terrain does not allow you to engage from that position. I'd rather have experience adopting uncomfortable positions, knowing I can overcome my gear/optic/rifle setup to effectively return fire than saying "well in theory I should always be prone because its most accurate and safest, sorry mr bad guy I'm gonna have to call a time out because I'm not in a perfect position to shoot back at you!"
>>64715624The issue is that /gq/ is too slow if you fracture it and it will keep sliding off page 10.Last thread was pretty ridiculous but it was a major topic (the Hesco 4401-4403 line has been the go-to Level IV pick for years) so that's IMO excusable. It's like finding out a major brand of TQ is shit or a certain NV mfg lies about FOM.
>>64714595eventually, working on my A certs now. Get about 5 BLS calls per shift>>64714950>endoscopegood to have, but god forbid you need to intubate somebody...Also, NCDs are basically 14g IV needles if you need to improvise.>>64715379>except rubbleie a common thing in a conflict area? I highly doubt people who train on VTACs myelinate standing unprotected during a firefight. VTACs have value bc they force you to understand how your POI changes when shooting from unconventional positions/angles. A rifle rotated 90* will usually need to be aimed 'high and towards the mag' to hit center. >>64715624>bunkbedguyThere's your issue. I may have exaggerated when I said I wanted /bag/-levels, but there's currently very little IFAK discussion and it is one of the more important pieces of kit. How is that not relevant? >>64715788idk where the /nvg/ expats are but they probably belong here too...As I said last thread, I'm willing to wade through the autism for good info.
>>64715832To make it easy, I'll summarize the debate last thread. Hijacking Neetmaster's argument, you can pierce any plate in Hesco's public lineup with M2AP reloaded into a .300 winmag or above. 3,200ft/s will do it and will give you a good window, as it will for many other plates. Should be doable with a 26" barrel. REV. J ESAPI's first shot v50 is only 3,150. I knew the 4403 lacked headroom - it is an alumina-fiberglass design and a light one - hence why I've always been in favor of the Protech 2230 when it is available used.The Hesco plates work, and there isn't major cause for alarm, but there is minimal headroom over Level IV spec. If you never anticipate being engaged by M2AP out of a .300WM or above, then the plates are perfectly fine. They are certified, to my point, to stop M2AP after regular drop tests at NIJ velocity. Far larger sample size than Buff. M2AP is, after all, a relatively uncommon threat versus pistol, basic rifle (CONUS Minimum in the new quick guide) and in shtf will still be less common than M855A1 and M80A1. For now. There is a latent supply leftover from WW2 and it is the cleanest way to punch Level IV plates by just loading it hotter. Keep in mind also a lot of people are using plates demonstrably inferior to the 4403. 4400s, 4SAS4s, 4SAS7s - these were THE budget IV pick ten years ago, random chinese white label, LAPG, RMA 1155s, I could go on. Also, the Highcum 4S17M, while better built to a higher DEA spec versus the 4403, is an undersized 10x12 and sacrifices coverage. The SAPI M is an obnoxious 8.6lb, only surpassed by the old AT Armor FFS4 at 9.5lb SAPI M.Fundamental principle. The situation can always change over time. If there is an armor ban nationwide, modeled after NY, do you want to be stuck with plates that lack headroom? There are more options for tungsten and/or "advanced M2AP" protection than there have ever been. That Gilliam 8002 is worth a hard look for only $314 a plate.
>>64715832its certainly relevant, but honestly got tiring when it was general after general of discussion that honestly just became paramedic talk and got pretty far from any kind of gear or even immediate combat casualty care that would coincide with gear talk. It was just a bunch of retards talking about ambulance setups, pretty far from the topic of the general. I get what you mean about the slowdowns, but if that's the case and there isn't anything relevant to talk about, maybe they should be allowed to die and resurrect when necessary.
what ever happened to bunkbedguy anyway? I know he stopped using a trip for a bit, but you could usually tell he was around based on his recycled pics.
>>64715379I don’t particularly like VTACs but I didn’t design that stage. Usually I just use them as generic cover in stages and throw penalties at people who don’t remain behind cover.What VTACs are exceptionally good for, is watching people miss brutally until they figure out that they’re deflecting their barrel on the cover
>>64716004>they should be allowed to die and resurrect when necessary.I disagree. When the majority of talk on a topic is infiltrated by shills in positions of influence, but not here, there needs to a perpetual redoubt against bullshittery in all areas, other than fucking off to a discord with ten dudes in it or a forum like P&S that gets five posts a month if you're lucky.
>>64716057>but not hereIdk man, doesn't seem like that's the case. The generals become no different than a small discord, can't tell the number of unique posters in a thread anymore but I guarantee its very few, not counting the random shitposts, so does it really make a difference?
>>64716094It certainly is the case for body armor, for example. Several companies have paid full-time shills, including RMA, and this is the only reasonably active forum where RMA's dude has been chased out of for good. He's on reddit, he's on P&S, he was in the /bag/ discord years ago. He's not the only guy. You've got dudes playing interference for Highcom's vendors, and other companies like Bulletsafe, Botach, American Blast, etc on several platforms, but not here. Guys on ARFCOM don't know their ass from the hole in the ground for plates. They're rolling Botachs and LAPGs. Fudds on various old forums are still rolling steel. Reddit walks into the woodchipper blind for every scandal. I can count on more than two hands the number of times we've bailed good people out from buying shitty armor. That alone makes it worth it. I'm guilty of shitting up threads with armor autism, absolutely, but, unlike old forums or discords, I'm not some demigod like DocGKR you literally are not allowed tk question. I've been wrong before. That's the point of good discussion.We are considerably more active than other "high-signal-to-noise" forums. Lightfighter, P&S. Reddit is high noise, low signal. I see no reason why other subject matters are different if we can spread out the autism.
So anyways, Buff tested that Swiss P AP rated Turtle Armor Xtreme plate. I'm not impressed given the cheat ring we've discussed before. Gilliam 8002 IMO kills it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_TtPM2N3B4Also, Buff will be testing the Adept Archon soon going off his FB. Affiliate / discount code "Buffman" if you want it. It's a 5.8lb Level IV, little cheaper than the Colossus, and still handles oddball 5.56 / 5.45 like AP4 and 7N39. Per Adept, will not reliably defeat M993. Colossus is 0.8lb heavier and a lot more stout, so I don't see the point given the rarity of AP4 CONUS. Gilliam 9969 is cheaper and about the same weight wise.He's still radio silent on cutting that 4SAS4 open with a waterjet and any tests of Gilliam plates. I think there might have been a breakdown with the latter, which is odd because the Gilliam 9969 and Adept Archon are closely related.
>>64714950>I only carry stuff that I would definitely foreseeable have to use on myself if I sustained an injury and needed to continue without treatment for 5+ daysHonest question: Do you think you have the pain tolerance to pack your own GSW? I don't. I'd fuck it up and/or pass out halfway through. The interventions I'm confident I can do to myself that don't involve a tourniquet on a limb are all gonna be small lacerations and burns and shit - stuff that can be left as-is for several hours with no real risk.
>>64716131What about the guy who keeps shilling for Chinese soft armor Why is he still around
>>64716482I would assume that he also means stuff that could be applied by a teammate/friend/spouse operating with him that has basic CLS/TCCC-style training.
>>64714783Just saw this. See below:>QUICK AND DIRTY ARMOR GUIDE 2.15CODE: * = actively NIJ-certified, ^ = ICW / non-standalone, DND = do not drop or drop protection is sketchy, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 or U211>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: Tencate CR6450SA or LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (adds 10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: RMA SUCKS (XRT)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI size only!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum IV spec. Look to Protech 2230 if you need more headroom)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P AP?)
>>64716489Long post, sorry. Chinese armor, like most things, exists on a spectrum. There is a significant amount of hot garbage coming out of China. Those are your D-list guys like American Blast, Linry, GTEagle. Now let's talk A or B-list..1. Gilliam's plates are so cheap because he sources most materials from China, with monolithic strike faces from either Bitossi or Adept depending on composition. The almost all-China Gilliam 8002's strength is undeniable, assuming they're made consistently. .300 Winmag Swiss P AP protection for 8.4lb and $314? Can't beat that.2. Adept Armor's supplier for the TiB2-SiC strike faces used in the Colossus, Archon, and the Gilliam 9969 (this is info Gilliam retracted recently) is most likely, based on patent timing and cost, Shandong Yasai - a Chinese advanced ceramics firm. You will also find that Adept refuses to answer questions of sourcing and where their armor is actually made, and has evaded answering these questions for a decade. The Colossus is THE overall strongest CONUS plate.3. Buffman has tested numerous Militech plates and they perform admirably. Yes, they run a bit hot on BFD and yes he's a paid affiliate and yes there is the concern he may or may not be getting plates with an extra round of QC. I can't answer the last question. 4. Stealth Armor Systems recently got outed for using Chinese materials for their flexible rifle armor solutions.We have Chinese and partially-Chinese plates that are resisting advanced, above-XSAPI tungsten threats on the cheap, repeatedly, and the question is whether they can press some polyethylene together to stop basic 9x19mm and .44 magnum. You actually don't need to press polyethylene together, really. Do you see the issue?The ultimate question is consistency, and whether anyone can point to domestic US-based options that perform and cost similarly. People here have varying levels of risk tolerance. We aren't a monolith.
If anyone wants further reading on the Adept-China connection, see below:https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63875731/#63879362
>>64715624>>64715788Threads are fast whenever there's a scandal or important news. Last thread had the Hesco debacle, so it was quick, especially towards the end.
>>64716482I mean the only real answer is “I hope I don’t have to find out”But my estimation is yes. Even if I passed out, I would rather pass out with a junctional GSW that’s half packed with celox gauze than be limping around without it. The hope in having an up-armored PC is that the GSWs that I’d incur are all tourniquet-able or outright lethal.>>64716520This too, though honestly I’m still skeeved out about the thought of my wife honestly being able to cram gauze into my armpit while I’m screaming and bleeding even with Stop The Bleed
>>64716267Yeah it doesn't look great. Pretty big cheat ring. Also, what's with Buffman saying "this is plate seven which performed especially well"? How did the other plates test, I wonder? And seven of them? Looks like this one might have been cherry picked bros.
>>64716670I'm glad we got ahead of it. When the 4403 video releases, I'd be willing to bet there's going to be a lot of Highcum / RMA shilling here. By that point the used Protech 2230s will be exhausted, so it's 4403 or bust for cheap not-Chinese IV, unless we're rolling used Protech 2014Gs, but that's last ditch single curve stuff, and that's just like the 4401.I don't trust Highcom to not pull another stunt after the 4SUS4 grand debacle, which was four turbo fast threads separate from /gq/, and RMA is definitely liable to play games or use tricks, as they have before.
>>64716708Gilliam at least puts his stuff together in an American garage.
>>64716691Yeah that's odd. I don't like also how messed up the strike face was with so many ceramic elements and yet so few rounds. It's a VPAM PM-12 plate, so it needs to stop three 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP, but he shot one Swiss P and then two M993, which is the VPAM PM-11 round.I think the ceramic is cheap and overly brittle, plus they aren't using a good crack arrestor. Would explain the cheat ring, they need to cut costs and/or add additional side-drop protection because the ceramic is crummy. Did the other six plates mess up? Did they let rounds through too early? I don't like these questions with gear that is supposed to stop you from dying.Score one for China with the "here in my garage" model 8002.>>64716742Conceded, and I found where that garage is in a five minute google search. Adept and Stealth have a really hard time saying the same.
>>64716708Do you think that the 4403 video is actually going to release, though? I kinda doubt it.
>>64716910I do. He's stalled on it for a while, but Hesco is the reddit punching bag so he's not going to catch flak for it like he did RMA ESRT #1, American Blast Ass, or 4SUS4 #1. Why do you doubt it?As I said last thread, Hesco has a very easy out. 4403 is certified to stop one M2AP at 2,910ft/s. It stopped one round and additional lesser threats after being compromised by two out-of-spec M2AP. it aktshually EXCEEDED requirements. That's it.
>>64716939That's an interesting take, lol. We'll see what happens.
>>64716964Well, it's true. If the NIJ pulls FIT samples for the 4403 and the M2AP is a hair over 2,910ft/s, that DOES NOT count against the plate if it fails.Similarly, if they shoot a 3810 and the two M80 land closer than 51mm to each other, that is an unfair hit and it also does not count against the plate.Lastly, if they shoot the plate closer than two inches from the edge... that also does not count against the plate.It's like the Maury show over at the NIJ. >Mr. Jeremy Gray, when it comes to the Hesco 4403, you are NOT suspended!
>>64716614>and the question is whether they can press some polyethylene together to stop basic 9x19mm and .44 magnum. You actually don't need to press polyethylene together, really. Do you see the issue?No. Chinks are well known for substituting materials and taking QC shortcuts to save a buck at the dumb westerner they're ripping off's expense. It's why I'd never buy their hard plates. Why should soft armor be any different?
>>64717043As I previously said, that's why you avoid D-listers that are known for pulling such chicanery. If anyone here thinks $29 a pop Level IVs from Linry are legit, you're an idiot.Can you provide evidence that Militech is subbing materials?
>>64717066>Can you provide evidence that Militech is subbing materials?You'll never know for sure unless you test every single item you get from them. Which renders it useless. Which forces you to buy another. Which you can't be sure of until you test it. etc etc etc etc. Don't buy chinkium.
>>64717110> t. time machine poster from 2012.There are very few products or categories where what you're saying is still true, except for total bottom-of-the-barrel stuff from Wish.com or IDOGEAR Amazon sloppa. Militech is practically the most reputable armor company right now, desu
>>64717110That's also true for American-made armor. Anons were getting water-damaged 4SAS4s and 4SAS4s failing tap and torque. Anons got 4400s, 4600s, 3410s, and 3610s with improperly hardened strike faces. One anon got an RMA 1155 that failed to two M80.Even FIT-tested armor is one lot about every two years for ISO companies, yearly for non-ISO companies. Very easy for bad product to sneak through if QC isn't consistent.It took nine years for Dragonskin's problems to come out. Several years for Zylon. You don't get a pass from QC failures and bullshit just because you buy American.
>64717139>failed to two M80.Self-correction, sorry, two cheap-ass .308 Tulammo at 100 meters, so actually less than two M80 at NIJ spec.
>>64717138>Militech is practically the most reputable armor company right now, desuNext you'll tell me that RMA 1155s are the best bang for buck lightweight RF3 on the market.
>>64717283NTA, but if it's a turbo-poorfag showdown, in a vacuum, for $100 a plate between the 4SUS4 and the OG 8.3lb RMA 1155 I might actually go with the RMA. At least the RMA 1155 has adequate drop protection to survive the postal service and held a .06 cert... at a point in time.>>64717138I agree with your overall argument, but Militech is only the most reputable CHINESE armor company, and that's debatable if you consider Gilliam, Stealth, and/or Adept Chinese. The actual most reputable armor company, right now, is Tencate, now Integris. NIJ cert list a mile long, over twenty years of history. Secondary contractor for SOCOM, primary for the US military alongside LTC and BAE, not one fuckin' armor recall or NIJ suspension. Ever. You want DEAD NUTS? huh? Tencate will give you DEEZ NUTS.
>>64717337Fair enough. Unlike Tencate, however, they make it pretty easy to buy as a civvie.
>>64717424They have five lineups and you can only, consistently buy from the Cratus lineup as a civvie.1. Cratus. CR6450SA is here.2. Multi-Light, you can buy this sometimes but it's euro / VPAM focused. CXP-800 SA belongs here.3. VelSys OEM, including ShadoWorks. VS-PBZSA says hi, along with the VelSys TSA and the PULV family.4. LIBA super-multi-hit plates.5. Ceraflex flexible rifle plates, including tungsten rated options.Similarly, we get half of LTC's lineup and a fraction of Safariland / Protech's. Hesco we get 80%, Highcom / RMA I think everything. Ceradyne was a big fat zero.China will sell you anything... for the right price.
>>64716708I just ordered a set of 4403 on primary arms they're 340 for 2. I had considered the 2230s but I really didn't want to play the condition game, and the 4403 I ordered is medium sapi so slightly better coverage, if not dual rated. Good poorfag placeholder set to grab, considering l210 6x8 sides with some 3a backer to make about 21lb. Probably looking at 30lb all in with carrier and 3mag shingle and couple small accessories. I did follow the last 3 gq threads was a great primer on everything I've missed in the last few years
>>64717766>they're 340 for 2That's a great price, it's normally just over $420.>I had considered the 2230s but I really didn't want to play the condition gameTotally fair. It's a gamble, technically, since a lot of the 2230s are pushing ten years old. The ones from the guy for $600 a set are mint from what I can tell, I don't know if he'll match the other dude's $300.>and the 4403 I ordered is medium sapi so slightly better coverage, if not dual ratedIt's still only good for 3x 7.62x51mm M80 @ 51mm spacing, versus Level III plates requiring six. That's still more multi-hit than you'll need for most situations, hopefully.>considering l210 6x8 sides with some 3a backer to make about 21lbAbort unless you don't need to stop .308 to the sides. Since you're using IV front + back I don't see how that's the case. The old /bag/ "L210 + IIIA = quasi-III+" trick isn't reliable. L110s are just smaller L210s and don't reflect the newer, better L211 that can stop M80 but runs over 44mm BFD, which IIIA would help control.I advise 4100s for sides. I know it's a weight penalty but it's Level IV like your front + back. It's two pounds total added weight penalty versus L110s bare, less than that with IIIA added in.>Other suggestionsIf you review Buffman's 4SAS4 retest, you'll see that he tests a number of the 4SAS4s with IIIA behind them even though it's a standalone plate. Two 6.8x51mm RRA pen plate #8 but are then caught by the backer, which is actually fine as long as BFS runs under 44mm. Since the 4403 has no M2AP headroom over 2,910ft/s I would actually advise running IIIA behind your front and back. It's a thin plate so there shouldn't be fitment issues. Cheap armor express IIIA panels are available on ebay or other websites. This will not only bail you out if M2AP is somewhat over-spec, but will reduce BFS, reduce behind armor blunt trauma, and raise v50s against other threats somewhat as well.
Unrelated, I looked over the 4SUS4 results again in the retest and forgot how bad of a job plate #5 did. One M2AP about 200ft/s slower than NIJ spec, and that messed up the whole strike face so everything else penned, including M2AP at 2,556ft/s (bruh). This is without a drop test and with Buff trying to "restore confidence" in Highcom.By the way, you can still buy 4SUS4s from Tactical Edge (do not) and some other guys, so they're either still making them low key or these C-list vendors got stuck holding the bag (latter is more likely). Prices are nowhere near the bottom during the debacle though, which was just over $160/set. Man I feel bad for /pfg/ dudes that got fried with these.
>>64717138We had this discussion back when /BAG/ rebooted. We decided to keep Chink armor off the list because body armor is one of the few things where its really impossible to validate it without destroying it. Militech has tested well so far but their refusal to get NIJ listed and their BS excuse as to why is sus and you will never know if they decided to cheap out until your are laying on the ground bleeding out. You can buy it if you want but that's a risk you should knowingly take upon yourself. I wouldn't recommend chink armor to others though. >>64717337I've taken a break from the board for a bit but why are we recommending chink brands without CPL listings all of a sudden? Is this /PFG/?
>>64718295Not them but at least for the time being I don't think anyone has actually managed to get a legit NIJ .07 certification yet. At least not that I've seen.
>>64718295Have you seen the absolute state of Hesco and Highscum lately? Not even gonna mention RMA. Militech has always been better than RMA.
>>64718295Baganon? Good to see you mate. How've you been?>We decided to keep Chink armor off the listFor good reason. This is a "risk tolerance" issue and the priority for the redone /bag/ infographic, as you know, was dead nuts reliable armor. Some anons are willing to take more risks, so that's fair game for them. I think Neetmaster is rolling Militechs. I've got Protech 2230s because while I appreciate the Militech RF3 Black, I don't trust for myself that they aren't sending Buff ringers or at least extra-QC plates. Remove (comp'd) youtubers and Militech's support is just a bunch of test reports, no different than the other Chinese guys like Jinwudun.>their refusal to get NIJ listed and their BS excuse as to why is sus and you will never know if they decided to cheap outThe steps for them to get NIJ certified involve renting a strip mall joint and using that as their "office" the NIJ can go to for collecting samples. I suspect the real reason is that they want to be safely outside of western jurisdiction if their shit don't work.>You can buy it if you want but that's a risk you should knowingly take upon yourself.A risk I took for myself with some soft armor from Jinwudun, but not something I'll do for plates. I roll Protech 2230s, I think Neetmaster rolls Militechs, so he's moderately less risk-adverse than I am.>I've taken a break from the board for a bit but why are we recommending chink brands without CPL listings all of a sudden? Is this /PFG/?Some anons are more "risk tolerant" than others, plus the really mediocre performance from the Hesco 4403 in Buff's latest testing and the whole 4SAS4 debacle is still fresh in everyone's mind. Gilliam Technical Services, which is a pretty new outfit that rose to prominence since you've been away, uses Chinese materials and their 8002 (at least on youtube...) is a phenomenal counter-tungsten performer for just $314. Do they have certs? Absolutely not, putting them on the same tier as Militech.
>>64718351NIJ 0101.07 is not open yet and the NIJ 0101.06 is actually closed for good unless they were slow on processing paperwork for previous successful submissions. Nobody has a legit RF1, RF2, RF3 etc cert at this time.>>64718357>Have you seen the absolute state of Hesco and Highscum lately?Highscum is a good one. I'd like to see the 4403 results push Hesco towards a "4403 Plus" that's more like the old 4K10, which was the 4400 but with an UHMWPE backer. Never sold outside of... Mexico. A better backer will do wonders for getting that v50 up.>Not even gonna mention RMA. Militech has always been better than RMA.But are they better than Gilliam? Battle of the /pfg/ brands continues... I saw Jinwudun has full-coverage plates now (I don't trust Chinese lab reports) so maybe they'll push Gilliam downwards price wise.
>>64715678>Just because someone is using a VTAC does not preclude them from training with additional aids or in real world environments.You're in a forest with trees in it but you're using the tard barricade. Why didn't you set up the lane to use the trees as natural cover? If it's 'repeatability' you want, you all do the same fire lane except you use actual natural cover.>Training to only shoot from the prone is great until you are in a situation where the terrain does not allow you to engage from that position.Literally all the guys in the Niger ambush died because they did VTAC barricade retard tactics around their car and got shot from the flank by the rest of the force. Two of them die in exactly the same way doing dumb shooting stances dancing around the hood of their thin-skinned car.>>64715832>except rubble>ie a common thing in a conflict area?Maybe in Gaza city. Where's the 'rubble' in a forest or the plains? Where's the closest bit of rubble you live next to?>myelinateYou heard that from Travis Haley. It doesn't mean 'reaction time' like he uses it, he doesn't understand what he's talking about and he's a con artist snake oil salesman.
>>64718435> t. doesn't understand the concept of micro terrain
>>64718452I bet you understand micro enough for the both of us, pal.
>>64718362>the really mediocre performance from the Hesco 4403 in Buff's latest testingThey stopped what they're certified to stop. What's the big deal?I also don't get why y'all put so much faith in Buffman. We've seen him bending over backwards to run DC for his affiliates before, there's no reason to think he isn't getting specially selected plates.
>>64718362>Baganon? Good to see you mate. How've you been?I've been well. Some fag got my IP ranged blocked for awhile and I didn't care enough to bother using a VPN. >For good reason. This is a "risk tolerance" issue and the priority for the redone /bag/ infographic, as you know, was dead nuts reliable armor. Some anons are willing to take more risks, so that's fair game for them. 100%>Gilliam Technical Services, which is a pretty new outfit that rose to prominence since you've been awayYeah I saw them name dropped, I checked out the guide for them trying to get up to speed. Everyone always wants a deal. A not poorfag new name I've been interested in lately is Tac11. They press their PE at a higher pressure than others to get the plates thinner. Might improve performance too. > I roll Protech 2230sNothing wrong with making your own risk assessment and going from there. After weighing the pros and cons I snagged a set of the Protech X-CAL LPs. Not a plate I would recommend for other Anons. But my primary PC is a Tyr with goofy soft armor sorta like an MBAV so I was looking for a thin and light III+ ICW plate and the value on these was just unmatched. >>64718351The 010/06 CPL is closed and the .07 hasn't gone live yet. Its been that way for over a year but both Adept and Militech have been around long enough to have gotten on the .06 CPL before they froze it. Adept was getting a lot of flak for their shady situation and after several threads we settled on waiting to see if they bothered to get listed whenever .07 goes live. They have a lot of interesting plates in their lined up but little more than inconsistent Youtuber tests and some VPAM reports that don't line up with their product page. >>64718357I've read the back and forth about the 4403MC going on. It still meets .06 if just. I was here for the 4SUS4 debacle. I just rechecked and NIJ hasn't pulled any certified Highcom or Hesco plates.
>>64718483...continuedHighcom did have two of their soft armor models with an advisory but those were closed. So As long as you stick to certified models and just expect them to do what they're advertised to do then they are legit. If you want to argue its not a good buy because other plates outperform it for the money then that's valid too.
>>64716558Cheers bro>>64716690>>64716520Getting your friends and loved ones to do a STB/BLS class should be more of a priority than worrying about level iii vs iv armor.I'm lucky, if my wife can suture a flank wound on an unsedated croc, she should be able to pack a gsw on me, no problem.
>>64718483Good to hear. Welcome back to /ba-I mean /gq/.>Yeah I saw them name dropped, I checked out the guide for them trying to get up to speed. Everyone always wants a deal.The 1023 has a solid test report, 6x M2AP stopped post-drop test. 8002 is THE poorfag XSAPI. There's a problem going on with the 9969, Gilliam's flagship using a TiB2-SiC strike face from Adept, where the one they're selling now is 5.8lb / 1" but the one they tested last month was 6.2lb / 1.28" thick. Allegedly, there's been some improvements, but they cannot bum that test report with such differences in construction. They're objectively different plates. I will knock them for that, that's sketch. Also claimed M995 defeat but no report to prove it.>Tac11. They press their PE at a higher pressure than others to get the plates thinner. Might improve performance too.Yeah they came up. We think their SC3812 and +-buoyant FXR-Bravo are new model Hescos meant to compete with the PBZSA for some hot shot fed M855A1 + M80 req. FXR-Bravo is dumb expensive though.>Protech 2230sCan't beat that M2AP first-shot v0 of over 3,510ft/s, plus full IV+III rating, and a built in trauma pad for less than what >>64717766 paid for 4403s, which lose to M2AP just barely over 2,910ft/s. Another anon got a pair for just $300 without fees.>After weighing the pros and cons I snagged a set of the Protech X-CAL LPs. Not a plate I would recommend for other Anons.Pretty good. Virtually no drop protection but they do well for lo-pro work. Also cheap as hell second hand.>both Adept and Militech have been around long enough to have gotten on the .06 CPLMilitech has been around since 2015. Adept has been around since at least 2016 if you count Diamond Age as the same company. They've had plenty of time.>I've read the back and forth about the 4403MC going on.My reasoning for the Protech 2230 aged like wine.>NIJ hasn't pulled any certified platesWell, if the M2AP is 25ft/s over 2,910ft/s, that doesn't count.
>>64718511>worrying about level iii vs iv armorWe have long, complicated, and hyper-technical armor discussions so we can arrive at simple conclusions to not-simple problems. Buy everyone you love a pair of Hesco 4403s or T212s depending on threat profile and lo-pro necessity. If you need cheap loaners I would not go cheaper than Protech 2014Gs ($225/set, this is absolute bare minimum I can rec before shit starts getting real shady) from Hudsongunner or Gilliam 1023s. There you go. If you have some emerging threat requirements, raise to Protech 2230s or Gilliam 8002s.I totally agree that the /bag/ contingent has dominated /gq/ lately, I'd like to see some first aid autism myself but I'm a learner, not an autist in that area. Somebody get bunkbedguy back here.>>64718494>So As long as you stick to certified models and just expect them to do what they're advertised to doYeah that's the crux of the argument I raised last thread. The 4403 is basically a dead nuts reliable... basic bitch Level IV plate. If you push it into some kind of IV+ role, you're going to run into trouble. Fast M2AP is the Protech 2230's job. If you need robust multi-hit versus M2AP then look to a tile array like the Gilliam 1023. Tungsten, de facto "Level V" threats, Gilliam 8002. NIJ cert for IV but with more headroom? Highcom 4S17M and you better buy it SAPI-cut because the not-10x12 is closer to a SAPI S.>If you want to argue its not a good buy because other plates outperform it for the money then that's valid too.IMO, Highcom 4S17M gets too close to the Gilliam 8002 price-wise and it actually weighs more than it if you make Highcom use honest sizing. Silicon Carbide-PE mogs Alumina-Fiberglass. See, the key advantage China has is that their silicon carbide is barely more expensive than their alumina, when there's hundreds of dollars separating the two with western plates. They don't even use fiberglass backers because their UHMWPE is so cheap... and there's a double meaning to that.
>>64718549>Allegedly, there's been some improvements, but they cannot bum that test report with such differences in construction. They're objectively different plates. I will knock them for that, that's sketch. Also claimed M995 defeat but no report to prove it.I'm having flashbacks to Adept discussions. They're new so I can give them a bit of slack as they develop their portfolio. Maybe they are just agile and constantly improving. Or maybe they are another front for Adept and up to the same tricks? Only time will tell. >Can't beat that M2AP first-shot v0 of over 3,510ft/sAnons gonna regret not getting them when they dry up>Virtually no drop protection but they do well for lo-pro work. Also cheap as hell second hand.Absolutely none at all, but I know that going in. I may cut some foam to put in place but I dont intend to wear these when training so its really a non issue for me. But its also why I wouldn't recommend them. What I feel confident in using myself and what I feel safe recommending to a new Anon are two different things. Also Buffman's testing showed it has some margin for M855A1.>They've had plenty of time.Exactly>Well, if the M2AP is 25ft/s over 2,910ft/s, that doesn't count.Yeah, I get why guys are saying dont buy it. You expect them to be overbuilt a bit and not riding the line for the NIJ cert. And its disappointing when it doesn't. I didn't see anyone mention the 4s17m, is Highcom just verboten now after the 4SUS4?
>>64718615>I'm having flashbacks to Adept discussions. They're new so I can give them a bit of slack as they develop their portfolio.They're not that new. Wayback machine has them clocked as early as 2022. They've been keeping a super low profile until recently though.https://web.archive.org/web/20220816150847/https://www.gilliamtechnicalservices.com/>Maybe they are just agile and constantly improving.Very agile, as far as I know it's pic related dude making plates in his garage and that's it. The fact he's giving Highcum a run for their money as a one-man-show is ridiculous, but here we are.>they are another front for AdeptWhat I don't get is that the current 9969 is just over half the price of the Adept Archon but is only 0.1lb heavier, yet Adept supplies the strike face specifically for the 9969. Is Jake a cuck? My crack theory is that Adept originally developed the Archon to beat M993 (this is known), but that flopped (it did) so they offloaded a lot of strike faces to GTS since the Archon is now kinda lame.>I may cut some foamCheap trauma pads also work, see 4SUS4 retest. This is RMA's official policy by the way if you want the 1165 GEN2 to withstand drops.>I didn't see anyone mention the 4s17m, is Highcom just verboten now after the 4SUS4?No, it came out Apex lied about the 3S9M and it's not really rated for B-32 API. He also lied and said the 4S16 has drop foam and it... does not. It's a no-drop like the 4800LV and 1165 GEN2. As long as you buy SAPI-cut and .06 cert, Highcum is fine but mostly inferior to Hesco / LTC. 4S17M has a niche now that the 4403's nonexistent headroom is outed.
If anyone wants proof of the "put a trauma pad in front of the 1165" being official RMA policy, see pic related. Shorta07 is their official community rep and paid full time forum poster.>if you do want some form of drop protection
So to state the obvious, if you happen to drop a magazine pouch with a loaded mag in it from table height, it shouldn't break, right? I guess I need to pivot to Nylon.
>>64718672Everything can break if you hit it at the right spot. Guerrilla glass being a great example.
>>64718672Gee I'd hope not.
>>64718672Kydex is pretty tough
>>64718707I know something tougher.
>>64718707It really would make sense to just use kydex if I had a thermoforming shop.
>>64718711So I'm still looking at this damn thing. How retarded would it be to rig two slings, one to each handle, so I can wear it like a backpack for appalachian meth bunker larp?
>>64718732They sell backpack slings
>>64719066awwww yeaaaaa
>>64717852I was not that worried about level 4 m2ap, certainly not from a 300wm 24", priority was multi hit 855/193 and 855a1/m80. Like a 4601 would be a good balance if not a lil thick and pick up a few more hits on a few of those and some more too but price. I'm prioritizing just getting a complete system and can always circle back for Gucci stuff. M2ap is a good bar to have, wish there was more 993/995 rated stuff. I did find some 2020 panels of safariland extreme line 3a concealment cut panels, like 35-40$ a panel and they're very lightweight. Might try some butchering on it. Also caps apparently, that's new. So yeah I'm interested to see this video but I have to think (hope) the armor industry rests on more than a YouTuber, for now I'm going to stick with 4403 cuz it was so cheap, and getting the protech I could have got a shit one and still need to buy plates which at that point I probably woulda just got something 3++ that was lighter even if it had to be icw. Looking at carriers and I don't want to pay spiritussy price, but I really want tubes, and first spear is not a deal either. Looking at possibly defense mechanisms, beez, greyghost gear. Laser cut with loop on the front, semi structured laminate cummerbund with tubes if anyone has a /pfg/ rec
>>64719400>I did find some 2020 panels of safariland extreme line 3a concealment cut panels, like 35-40$ a panel and they're very lightweight. Might try some butchering on it. Also caps apparently, that's new.Got a link on that?I need to pick up some concealable soft armor.
> Muh Militech/Gilliam/Etc. doesn't have NIJ certificationThis is ENTIRELY the NIJ's own fault. They've been teasing 0101.07 since 2017, which is almost ten years now, and the .07 CPL is still nowhere in sight. It's always "just around the corner, super serious guys, I swear"! At this rate we're not going to get an .07 CPL until 2028. > B-but Militech should have certified to .06!First of all, you can genuinely argue that this could have looked like a waste of money and time, with .07 always "right around the corner!" Also, the ShotStop guy got five years in Club Fed for importing "counterfeit" Chinese plates. Let's say Militech opens a US office. Let's also say that the US legal establishment is hostile to bulk Chinese armor imports. What's to stop the DoJ from claiming that Militech's Chinese imports are so-called counterfeit, and going after everybody associated with that office? Also, are you DEAD NUTZ sure that they'll actually certify a plate where the location of manufacture is China? I'm not. And I think that trying to put a new label on it in the USA would genuinely be perceived as counterfeiting. > B-but!With the geopolitical realities in play, I'll concede that Militech should certify to VPAM or a different specification. But you really can't fault them for avoiding the US. Also the NIJ looks like a clown show rn.
>>64719400Whatever the case, the 4403's NIJ cert stands and it's proven to stop M2AP at up to 2,910ft/s post the 0101.06 drop test. The 4601 is significantly better but it's pretty thick. On sale lately for $900 a set which isn't terrible for a midweight NIJ cert III/IV. Better than what Highcom has and much better than the 0101.04 holdouts from LTC that bulletproofme has been selling for fifteen years.The armor industry rests on the NIJ. There is an "alt-armor" movement centered around Buffman and his affiliates (Ace Link, RMA, Adept, Militech, Stealth) that are light on NIJ certs or have none at all, so they use youtubers like him as alternative credibility. He's in really deep with RMA and they get special treatment on some tests, so he's not entirely impartial. >>64720086The counterfeit plate issue was because Shitstop was putting fake NIJ labels on uncertified Chinese plates. They were also, unrelated, taking Tencate Cratus-series plates, ripping out drop foam, and re-covering them to save weight. Longfri is NIJ certified, Chinese, and not getting prosecuted. Militech doesn't have an excuse. Certify to 0101.06 in 2017 and then recertify to 0101.07 whenever.
>>64720183> putting fake NIJ labels on uncertified Chinese plates.What if those were the actual plates he had certified? ShotStop didn't have any manufacturing capabilities.> Certify to 0101.06 in 2017 and then recertify to 0101.07 whenever.Plenty of excuses not to certify when the NIJ's position is that they're not accepting new plates from China, lol. Also 2017 was a long time ago, and the NIJ has been saying "right around the corner. . ." ever since then.When do you think the .07 CPL is going to drop? Later this year? 2027? 2028? Never?
>>64720217>What if those were the actual plates he had certified? ShotStop didn't have any manufacturing capabilities.That's not the case. The plates that were on Shotstop's CPL entry were D-code Tencate Cratus plates, some with SSB suffixes to denote they were specials made by Tencate for Shotstop. Could be something as little as a different cover material. If you say you sell a model, it goes on your CPL list, even if you don't regularly sell it. You "inherit" it from the actual mfg. This is how guys like AR500 have fat CPLs but few certified plates in their actual lineup. It's a trick because people don't know model numbers. Shotstop was no different.>Plenty of excuses not to certify when the NIJ's position is that they're not accepting new plates from China, lolThey won't go to China to collect FIT samples, but they will accept plates from China or using chinese materials if they're sold out of a domestic operation.Militech could make a mint if they were certified, because the NIJ is the only bar that sets Hesco and Highcom "above" them. They're a pretty big operation actually and should have no issue absorbing the cost, even if that should have been done years ago. Again, no excuse. Their lack of CPL entries is on them. That's not killer though. Ceradyne had zero CPL entries, but they had other means of gaining a reputation.CPL will probably drop mid-2027 or earlier.
>>64719530They are not sold as sets, and concealable cut has a ton of sizes for front and back. The seller is katophillips but again not gonna find two matching pieces in your size. I only ordered because dyneema, and maybe some day I'll find a 2013 size front or have some panel I can improvise something. Balcs stuff definitely easier to source, I have a balcs cut in an eagle low vis I bought years ago for really cheap. Just hunt eBay they pop up sometimes. New you have options from 400 up tho
>>64720506> but they will accept plates from China So what happened here?> https://www.bodyarmornews.com/certified-body-armor-in-china-russia-and-venezuela-inactivated-by-nij-ctp/And Militech are on record as saying that the NIJ won't certify their plates. To try and evade the rules by registering a US office would be completely retarded. Also the NIJ is a clown show.
>>64713634Seemingly random items at most timesYoure better off scoping out ebay or tacswap for a used one.>>64713368M4 mag pouches with shotgun cards in it so you still have a useful carrier>>64715379Combat doesnt have paper or steel targets either anon. If you're not shooting at random hikers you probably wont make it>>64718435>hood of their thin-skinned car.Bro thats a BR6 armored landcruiser 200, way better than thin scrub brush from both a concealment and cover standpoint
>>64720727The list is of companies that have no domestic US presence, including:>Beijing V-great International Trade Co., Ltd., Beijing Tongyizhong New Material Technology Corporation, Beijing Perfect Protection Technology Co., Ltd, HANGZHOU PINYI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. PUFAN. Senken Group Co., Ltd. SUPOWER FACTORY CO. LTD, YUANFAR ARMOR, Beijing Aerospace Rate Mechanical & Electrical Engineering Co. And Sumdex / S-Shield.Among others, including some not directly from China. The "rent a strip mall joint" trick gets around this. Militech's excuse is dishonest as pointed out by baganon earlier.
>>64720896>The "rent a strip mall joint" trick gets around this.If you want to risk fraud charges, and the minute you get too large or too prominent and start outcompeting Hesco/Highscum, that's gonna get real.
>>64720896>The "rent a strip mall joint" trick gets around this.Also, it maybe "gets around this" for now. What if they change the rules again on a whim? NO REFUNDS. Put yourself in Militech's shoes. They'd need to be retarded to certify with the NIJ.
>>64718637>No, it came out ApexEven reddit dont like him anymore. >Cheap trauma pads also workTrue not the worst idea. >Is Jake a cuck?Sounds like Adept are just making a healthy profit off of him. He should try to bypass them and go to the actual OEM. Not like the chinese care about IP or exclusivity anyways. >The fact he's giving Highcum a run for their money as a one-man-show is ridiculous, but here we are.As long as he settles in and has a mature product ready for .07 then that's fine. Armor aint cellphones though so a new model every few months isn't tolerable. >>64720086First of all, you can genuinely argue that this could have looked like a waste of money and time, with .07 always "right around the corner!"Militech has been around for a minute now, they had plenty of time to get on .06 and chose not to. Obviously they can't now but the problem is they didn't when they could. And getting listed isn't a waste of time or money. It opens you up to lucrative LEO agency sales. Many will only buy what's on the CPL.
>>64721075> screaming "right around the corner!" every five minutes> arbitrarily de-listing Chinese companies five years ago, > NO REFUNDSNot getting certified was the smart thing. It has nothing to do with the quality of their product or operation.
>>64718722You could just buy one made by someone else. They last forever
>>64719400Tubes really suck. They squeak, they’re not as durable as FS claims, and you don’t get good adjustment for layers. Pass.Buy an SPC
>>64720915Fraud charges? How is Longfri still certified and in good standing? It's find to use Chinese materials if you're up front. The NIJ requires sourcing disclosure.If you think Hesco or Highcum are going to somehow apply muscle, they would have done it to Adept or another sketchy small fry already. RMA, even.>>64720963Then you pull a Gilliam and manufacture the plates CONUS using imported materials. Maybe even just create a shell garage company for this express purpose!>>64721138Getting certified would run Hesco out of a job pretty quickly.
>>64721075Reddit don't like Apex but they still follow his advice. Maybe they should revisit whether he gave them bad advice.>AdeptActual OEM might have an exclusitivity agreement in the states with Jake. I agree Gilliam needs to stabilize before 0101.07 drops. If he can get the 9969 certed, as-is, it'll give the 4602 (hypo 4601 with reduced foam and multi-hit reduced to .07 spec) a run for its money.
>>64721390Nah tubes or bust at this point desuI did velcro with fixed shoulders for the longest time. Having a QD on my shoulder strap is essential and having one on my cbund is just plain nice.
>>64721642Tubes on cummerbunds sort of make sense but they should make them out of better material. Tubes on shoulders absolutely suck.
>>64721642>Tubes on shoulderThe worst use of tubes, ive seen so many get swept unlocked/partially unlocked by buttstocks and who the fuck wants a buckle under their buttstock is this 2006 ???
>>64721661Thank you for outing yourself as a soulless leftyYou know you can switch what side it mounts to, right?
>>64721668A2 doesn't know these things.
>>64721668Stop pretending that most carriers dont tube both shoulders and people dont eat that dumb shit up.
>>64721712Least angry american blast enjoyer
>>64721668>>64721696>>64721712Even tubing one shoulder is pointless and retarded. Cummerbund tubes are okay-ish, and if you like that kind of thing they are sufficient.
>>64721734Tubing the bund is still retarded in a layering situation.>but you can play "adjust the velcro stacked between velcro" when layering because you didnt have enough velcro on your velcro.Wow how appealing!
>>64721712>buhhhhh buhhhhMine doesn't. My issued armor has fucking side release buckles at all four corners. None of them interfere with my ability to shoulder a rifle.
lv120 psyop gang
Son it's over they found out you're just allied universal working after-hours at the convention center
>>64721747The armored combat shirt is fucking ass btwZero flex at the shoulders. If it's not oversized it'll chafe the fuck out of you. The shirt body itself is fragile. I have no option for delt or throat protection if I'm wearing winter layers. The instructions say to wash it like any other piece of laundry but I don't see how that doesn't compromise the soft armor.
>>64721747Shoulder buckles are the worst part of the MSV, especially when shooting prone. >Four cornersThanks for clarifying you arent shouldering your rifle behind your body
>>64721815The worst part for me is the fact that I have to beg for a size Small carrier with size Medium plates for it to fit rightThe soft armor panels are all one size up
>>64713312Thoughts on open-top/taco/wedge magazine pouches vs bungee/strap retention?Also, someone explain to me why in the world I would get a double- or triple-across mag pouch instead of three individual ones that would seemingly provide more mounting versatility and the ability to remove a compromised pocket?
What Plate carrier are they wearing? The Helmets look like MICH 2001s (probably a copy since they got these recently) and the UCP IFAKs are a peculiar choice
>>64721945I prefer an open top kydex/taco or similar for a few fast mags and flaps for all the rest. Not much use for bungees if I'm not improvising something out of suboptimal issued gear. Individual magazine pouches grouped together in twos or threes across don't fit as well in the same PALS space as they would if they were all sewn into one unit. Particularly on a belt. Just a matter of how well you know your desired layout.
>>64721945>open-topOpen top runs the problem of you possibly losing your mag when you're running. Bungee retention at least offers a bit of security.
>>64722034>bengladeshprobably some temu shit
>>64722131Dollars to donuts those are Pakistani carriers. They have a dozen companies that clone and modify every Western design.
>>64722141interresting, so when you don't want to deal with the chinese you can instead order stuff from pakistan.
>>64721945Flapped pouches for all mags but happy magTaco/Kwyi/Fastmag for the happy mag>3x shingle vs 3x single pouchesLess redundant mounting hardware and fabric?>Compromised pocketYou arent going to wear out 500d, even 330d would be difficult.
>>64722141Do you know the original design? looks kinda like a crye avs
>>64714275What knife is that saaar?
>>64716650the archon plate is not m993 rated. only small caliber tungsten threats and large caliber steel
>>64722151Yeah, and a lot of Airsoft stuff is already from Pakistan>>64722162Looks more like an Agilite K-zero, with that silly zipper pouch up top. But it's not either one, it's some sort of modified design, I think.
>>64722178Per the article, it was originally supposed to be good for M993 at 3,050ft/s, which is explicitly XSAPI velocity. The rating was later downgraded to M2AP plus some exotic 5.56 / 5.45 / 5.8 that you'll never realistically encounter CONUS, and the plate doesn't have proof of drop protection necessary to survive "modern war" OCONUS.The Archon's benefit is that nearly all Level IVs below it weight-wise are basic boron carbide, which means they'll be especially weak to tungsten core threats. 26310, 4800, 9812-R1, even CXP-800.
>>64722451> and the plate doesn't have proof of drop protection necessary to survive "modern war" OCONUS.Apparently it survived Buffman's ULTRA DROP TEST and did well, as have all previous Adept plates, so this position is pretty weird desu. What I'd really question is the Hesco 3811. After seeing what happened to the 4403 and 4800, I doubt that it could take a Buffman 2x ultra drop test and reliably stop M855.
>>64722235Since it's black I'm actually thinking it was originally gear meant for Chinese SWAT teams
>>64722504Pakistani knockoff carriers are cheap af. Say what you will about Bangladesh, but they can probably afford $40 carriers in the color of their choice for their top-tier SOF.
You think the army will determine that moving away from BALCS cut soft armor with the MSV was a mistake and go back to issuing out IOTVs?
>>64722495Really? Could you then explain why the Archon skipped the drop test in the actual test report on their site?>as have all previous Adept platesSo why do the Colossus and Thunder not have drop tests in their lab reports either? Buff's drop test is pretty challenging, so this should be easy.>What I'd really question is the Hesco 3811. I'd need some assurance from Hesco before staking a claim in favor of that one. Perhaps a test report with a drop test.
>>64722539If Ukraine-style warfare goes global, yes.
>>64722597Dude you're trying to have it both ways. Weren't you saying in the last thread that Buff's test was actually way harder than the NIJ .06 test and totally unfair? All of the Adept plates withstood the 2x Ultra Drop Test just fine, so "not drop safe" looks kind of kooky. But I don't know about Hesco, lmao
>>64722597Do Hesco or Highscum even post test reports, BTW? I recall last time somebody asked about the 4SAS4, it was "top secret ITAR" hahaha
>>64722615They do not, but if you want to know whether they pass 0101.06, you use the CPL.https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/equipment-and-technology/body-armor/ballistic-resistant-armor>>64722608You do realize Buffman isn't an actual lab, right? You do also remember how he did a total 180 and basically shredded his credibility back during the 4SUS4 debacle, even included a cute little affiliate link in his apology letter?You also do remember that time he ran cover for RMA over the 1192s being 10oz overweight? Also let the 4SUS4 and 1165 GEN2 skip the drop test completely and then includes the 1165 in his plate rankings with no fine print?He's a youtuber and he values his affiliate relationships, because he gets paid when the plates do well. He's not a lab and trying to treat him as equal to one, or equal to NIJ cert, is ridiculous.
>gets accused by Chase customer service of rigging the 4SUS4 to fail on behalf of "another company">gets drug through the mud>takes the first test where the 4SUS4 fails down because "people were drawing conclusions">gets sent new plates>gets a C&D from the company that sent him the plates>can't post 4SUS4 retest until the retest gets Chase's approval>posts affiliate link for the same companyAnd this guy is equal to actual accredited labs how, exactly?
>>64722659Yeah, just saying "they're not drop safe" looks unfounded when they could have asked Buffman to skip the 2x Ultra Drop Test but they didn't?The rest of your points make sense. I still really doubt the 3811 after these latest Hesco results, man, holy shit. It's ".06 certified" but the UHMWPE backer by itself is enough for that, and it says nothing about performance vs. basic M855, especially after a drop.
>>64722683My concern is that Buff could literally have an extra Adept plate that he drops but doesn't shoot, and that plate is a decoy. It helps that Adept plates, as far as I've seen, literally do not have back labels or serial numbers, so there's no way to tell them apart. I actually don't know any other armor company, other than really shady dudes, that don't have back labels.Pic rel is the back of a Colossus he tested. Where's the serial number?>I still really doubt the 3811 after these latest Hesco results, man, holy shit. It's ".06 certified" but the UHMWPE backer by itself is enough for that, and it says nothing about performance vs. basic M855, especially after a drop.I will actually agree with you there. I'm not going to stand here and pretend the 3811 was tested by NIJ's contracted labs to stop M855, because it was not. That round isn't in the 0101.06 protocol.
Okay, exception (IYKYK), this plate does not have a back label, but there are other reasons for that.
>>64722710Looks like there's a QR code on the front of the plate, though?Also: > My concern is that Buff could literally have an extra Adept plate that he drops but doesn't shoot, and that plate is a decoy. The plates are marked before he drops them, though? It would have to be a very elaborate hoax, lol. Also, the Thunder plate was apparently damaged in the drop, but still performed okay.Anyway, let's not shit up another thread.
>>64722758>Looks like there's a QR code on the front of the plate, though?Does that take you to the plate's serial number or just the webpage? Also doesn't excuse the lack of a back label. You don't need an NIJ spec label if you lack NIJ cert, but even a China-style six box with the serial number would be something. Bare minimum.>The plates are marked before he drops them, though?That's funny. He said the RMA 1192 had a massive variance as a non-CPL plate, but when marked both of them were precisely the same weight and thickness. I mean bang on. When the 10oz overweight issue came up in the comments, he added another ounce. So what was it buff? Very convenient the huge variance was exactly the same and was also specifically from the ceramic mfg, almost like they knew you'd shoot it beyond NIJ spec.>would have to be a very elaborate hoaxThis is the body armor industry, where huge companies with decades of glowing performance, like Second Chance, knew Zylon was going to degrade but didn't do shit and people died because of it. The entire armor industry is shady and there is no hoax too great. I rest my case.
>>64722796> That's funny. He said the RMA 1192 had a massive variance as a non-CPL plate, but when marked both of them were precisely the same weight and thickness. No I mean you can line up the markings with the plates that are later shot. That way you can be reasonably sure that the plate being dropped is the one being shot. Anyway, yeah. Buffman isn't perfect and neither is the NIJ. It's all a damn mess.
>>64722809>No I mean you can line up the markings with the plates that are later shot. That way you can be reasonably sure that the plate being dropped is the one being shot.The point I was trying to make is that his markings aren't always accurate, and in the 1192's case were just plain wrong and under extremely tenuous circumstances. Just mark a plate the same as the "decoy."Only way to be positive is if the plates had different serials on the back labels. Bad news, Adept has no back labels.>Buffman isn't perfectMoral of the story is that he's got affiliate relationships out the ass and does sketchy shit on their behalf every now and again. For example, where's the other six turtle plates he tested? Which 4SUS4s were sent in by Chase versus the viewers? Why is the 1192 10oz overweight but literally nobody else complained theirs were heavier than advertised? Why did you let RMA tell you to skip any drop test on the 1165 G2? Do you get some kind of extra comp for letting Militech literally use your videos as ads on their website for almost every plate they offer? Why did you say on Arfcom RMA was upfront with the 1189 cheat ring when they failed to properly disclose it for five years?>Neither is the NIJThe government agency that has been trying to add a CPL, Level IIIA, III, IV, and BFD test for the upcoming helmet standard, 0106.02, for twenty three years!To resolve the "mess", you have to use all evidence. Not just Affiliateman, or labs, or the NIJ. If you can work areal density and layups it gets easier.
>>64722839>The point I was trying to make is that his markings aren't always accurate, and in the 1192's case were just plain wrong and under extremely tenuous circumstances. Just mark a plate the same as the "decoy."Maybe, but my point was that you have to mark them exactly the same way, in exactly the same handwriting, without any differences -- or else a sharp eye would be able to spot those differences. Seems like a stretch.> For example, where's the other six turtle plates he tested? Damn good question. Even lucky number seven didn't perform that well. > Why is the 1192 10oz overweight but literally nobody else complained theirs were heavier than advertised? This was called out on day one, wasn't it?> Why did you let RMA tell you to skip any drop test on the 1165 G2?I guess the 2x Ultra Drop Test is optional now. This actually makes the "decoy" thing a lot less likely!> upcoming helmet standard, 0106.02, for twenty three years!Safe to say this one isn't happening, lol
>>64722902>Maybe, but my point was that you have to mark them exactly the same way, in exactly the same handwriting,That's doable if you're careful. You're also several feet away so small differences will be hard to spot. Alternative is that he "picks losers" and drops them additional times off screen. Can't prove he does it, can't prove he doesn't either. The possibility is still there. Does he have an affiliate code for MIRA, by chance? That's an advantage of a lab over backyard testing. Labs don't have affiliate codes. They get paid the same if it fails or if it passes.>turtlesAlso begs a third theory. What if he had additional Collosi or Archons, just like the Turtle plates, and only posted the best results? You don't know. What if he had additional 4403s and showed the worst? You don't know for certain.>on day oneYes, but the people calling him out on it bought his variance excuse that holds zero water if you know how variances work. It's + and -, not just +.>RMA skipped drop testDoesn't affect the decoy possibility. RMA and Adept aren't in cahoots besides partnering on boob curve plates (RMA FSAPI and the yaaas queen carrier) and they won't be coordinating instructions to Buff.>0106.02I think they're making progress on it, actually. Slowly...
>>64722451just basing it off the current webstore page. enough arguing about old shit, argue about some new shit:I want to see just how unfair the first m2ap hit is here, wish he'd had a second plate to shoot.
>>64722975Looks impressive at 5.8 pounds, edge to edge, stopping all tungsten 5.56mm threats from a 22", M2AP at NIJ velocity, and then six more shots of M855A1 from a 22", after the drop test. I wonder if he could have kept shooting it.
>>64722975>>64722997Not bad, assuming no shenanigans, or you can get the Gilliam 9969 that seemingly uses the same strike face for half the price. 5.8lb, 1" thick, edge to edge. Claims M995 defeat but no AP4 / DVC-12.https://gilliamtechnicalservices.com/products/model-9969-lightweight-no-spall-multi-curve-ceramic-armor-plate?Keep in mind the Archon is $1,160 a set, so it's way upmarket versus the 4403, Gilliam 8002, yes the 9969, Militech RF3 Black, etc. Only Level IV plates north of it price wise are the Colossus, a couple of LTCs and Highcoms not worth your time, and then the lightweight B4C plates that lose to M995.
>>64723051wonder what Gilliam's doing for drop foam and strike face retention/crack arresting. I don't think I've seen any testing for his plates. I think the plate is definitely into the mid-high end at 5.8 lb and is a relatively budget option for that segment imo no point comparing to entry level plates like 1165 and 440x
Is ERDL the new meme camo for 2026?Helikon-Tex just released a new "raid shirt", pants, and a throwback boonie hat in ERDL. Prelude to new jungle warfare?
>>64723062See the test report (it's a touch fishy for reasons I've said before), it pulls similar BFD to the Archon but AFTER a double drop versus M2AP. Crack arrestor is a known quantity too.
>>64723073Are there any vids on any of their plates? Are they still beefing with Buffman?
>>64723078Yessir, see below for the 8002:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q7LkcW_NQY&I don't know what the deal is between them and Matt still, especially since Gilliam has an affiliate program now.
In other news, I see that Gilliam 8002 is still $314 a plate. You've never been able to get XSAPI+ protection on an RMA 1165 budget before. Just saying, kf anyone wants to talk "headroom" over 4403s. 8.4lb, 1.2", single-curve, but .300 Winmag Swiss P AP is no slouch.https://gilliamtechnicalservices.com/products/model-8002-max-heavy-tungsten-rf3-silicon-carbide-ceramic-armor-plate?
>>64721160
Got a belt/pouch/canteen to go with my Alice mag carrier I posted a thread or two back. Still working on the overall setup but I'm getting there.
How do you prevent shitting on the battlefield?
Got this surplus brit field shirt, wanted to know if anyone happens to know what Walvin was up to. Tried looking around at brit insignias but most resources were WW2 specific
>>64723293And we trust this shit to stop bullets because some youtuber says so?
>>64723912>wanted to know if anyone happens to know what Walvin was up toProbably sipping some tea while listening to mosques blast call to prayer, while his children get molested by muslims, like every other brit.
>>64723993There are also lab reports here:https://gilliamtechnicalservices.com/pages/latest-nij-testing-reports?What they really need is NIJ certification, because youtubers aren't always honest and labs only pertain to the samples tested.
>>64723420Nice bro, what else are you putting on it?
>>64724853>>64723420mb, meant to reply to you
>>64723912The patch on the [our] left is for the Royal logistics corps and the patch on the right is for the joint helicopter force. Warvin was a logistics POG and probably did load handling on and off helicopters
>>64722163https://countycomm.com/products/ergo-r4a-pro-ready-4-action-fixed-blade-knife-od-green-labyrinth-g10-new-copy?srsltid=AfmBOoq7Y7D82SuwXwo6GdF-MIXZO6EodR_A_P3bATeJHgiZ_PJq-rSZ
>>64722517You're probably right. But, Black hasn't been tacticool since the mid 90s
>>64724853Im gonna get a second canteen with the little stove, I have an ifak on my bag but I might move it to the belt. Hang my knife and a pistol on it too. I've already got 6 mags in the vest so I'm thinking I'll use the mag pouch to hold tools and maybe a dried food pack or two. Not sure. I'll come back and post the whole kit when I've got the whole thing finished, Ive got most of the components I think, just need to sort out the organization of it and practice with it.
Got a few items I'm struggling to source and may have to fabricate. Skin tone non printing bicep pouch, nylon socks with pocket in the instep.I need some way to fix a dry bag unrolled against my chest, probably an additional strap or mounting point. These bags are great axillary/forage bags but are awkward to carry deployed when empty. Glasses with optical resistance, which aren't visibly tinted. For protection against broad spectrum light such as IR floods, laser pointers. A kind of retractable cable, the sort used to retain keys and such, that has about a foot slack and or a sheath for that foot of cable which won't just get shredded or lock up. A kind of climbing aid for slack top chain link fences, maybe to ratchet the top down on itself. Ideally two hooks and a one way cable draw.I need some kind of tool to penetrate double glazed windows to install cable, without shattering the window. Like a carbide pipe which can spray sealing foam or silicone into the gas cavity. Still searching for a kind of ball socket stud for dynamic integration of shoulder mounted equipment. The prototype is actually very useful but tends to get pulled diagonally and decouple.Tubular nylon/kevlar strapping, to make a kind of internal MOLLE and allow integration of various tools with gear. To reduce snag points, allow for grab-and-go assemblies.I need some kind of stilt pole to give me a foot or extra high, but the pole has to be decoupled from the brace, because nobody has time to put on or take off such a brace and the pole itself will have multiple uses. Thinking it might have to be like a sten guns bolt hold open. Unsure about what kind of feet it will need but probably the same sort as hiking poles, rather than the sort on crutches. I won't be walking on it.I need some kind of crampons for grip on polished, ceramic, galvanised surfaces. Maybe just the soles of gym boots with sandal straps.
>>64725512>Crazed cable guy postingOriginalRefreshing
>>64724853Personally I prefer the modern webbing rig to the Vietnam style strapping, because of the risk of getting snagged on things and issues with overlapping straps. You take a rig like that so you can just dump your rucksack, if however you're going in with an assault pack, both the strapping, belt padding, molle are questionable choices.And I wouldn't mount pouches like that because you end up with more pouches then actual gear. Why not hard mount a soft pouch with internal divisions. That's what camera men, paramedics, electricians do. GI equipment was designed for mass production and versatility, which it excels at. But you've probably got more money, specific needs.
>>64722517A lot of operators using Bangladesh carriers, militias use them just for cost but that led to other operators adopting them to blend in with local militias.But many proper carriers have extended coverage to protect against spalling, the issue with chinesium carriers is that they offer no protection against frag and spalling. So yes your expensive plate will work in a cheap carrier, totally valid, especially to disguise who is and isn't even wearing plates. But if a mortar goes off nearby, or a grenade, an expensive carrier will protect far more of your radial arteries at the points its very difficult to operate on or tourniquet. If it's peripheral, your hand gets blown off, well you can at least tourniquet that. But what about getting fragged above the hip, in the armpit, neckline? If something hits your plate that's probably where it's going next. And manufacturers keep shaving the edges off plates, the smaller the plate is, the more you "extended" coverage is likely to be protecting your vitals. I actually wish high quality carriers came in the shittiest Chinese camo, to lower your threat profile.
>>64725601What the absolute fuck are you talking about? Carriers are made of one layer of nylon and don't stop fragments.Are you talking about soft armor? Armor carriers? Are you just making shit up?
>>64725601The Bangladeshi made carriers in question are those local copies of modified IBAs right?Are the black vests that the SOF are wearing also locally made?
>>64725613I think he's trying to say that the cheaper chinese vests aren't made of kevlar fibers and don't have soft inserts. They're just nylon vests that carry plates o algo?
>>64725634> They're just nylon vests that carry plates o algo?That's every plate carrier, though. They're not "made of kevlar" unless you insert soft armor panels lol
>>64725626That looks like a balcs carrier or pretty similar at first look. The IBA is essentially a front opening flak with plate pockets
/gq/>2 plate company reps>and a coupla guys
>>64725682Hey, Gilliam isn't really a "rep"
>>64725546There are good reasons.
>>64725661from what I can tell the plate sorta slides into a pocket from the top. idk exactly what it's based on. I always just assumed it was based off an IBA because of the silhouette and I read somewhere previously they used to use Italian IBA clones in UN Peacekeeping missions
>>64724965I see I see. Could tell the eagle was related to air but that's about the extent of what I could find out.Thanks for the info
>>64725613>Carriers are made of one layer of nylon and don't stop fragments.Kek. The Bangladeshi ones are certainly are, but they're cheap copies of better carriers made without the expensive materials, and with no understanding of why better carriers are designed the way they are. >>64725634Indeed. With a cheap carrier the plate is liable to shift, there's no padding, it's debatable if you even want padding to to integral. In the jungle probably not, but in the water, definitely, and there's a lot of water in the jungle. And when it comes to spalling, even two layers of kevlar as extended coverage is really significant, because seriously, if you're hard plate is rated for say....308, you must seriously plan for 160 grain of spalling. And even things that penetrate kevlar, the kevlar still serves to keep the wound sterile and prevent shrapnel being left in the wound channel.Try yourself with cotton, denim, poly, kevlar and bamboo skewers. Forget the armour value, try using the material to remove a foreign body. The kevlar fibres are so strong you can use them to pull out bits of metal or wood, where cotton fibres have little strength, and often become foreign bodies themselves.And another classic issue of the chinesium carrier is the weight of the plate pulls it away from the body. You an lose a lot of energy moving around because of that, and worst case, a bullet slips clean under the plate. I'm intimately familiar with chinesium, and I'm not saying that it's bad, often it's the best choice even money aside. But you really don't want to go for a swim wearing one, or get peppered with wooden shrapnel in one, or get into a car crash wearing one.
>>64725760Now that's what I call a schizo rant. Retard-kun, no American carriers are "made of Kevlar." At most they have inserts. Most don't.
>>64715379>standing when you should be proneGo prone in bushy terrain and you suddenly cannot see the target you are engaging. Use quick marksmanship to eliminate the threat and then get the fuck out.
>>64725692Neetmaster did not confirm or deny if he's Gilliam last bread, but he did deny being Apex Can't-Ship Solutions. Jury is out on whether I rep Hesco or Safariland. One year ago baganon was Apex and we did have an actual Adept rep or at least somebody who REALLY fanboi'd their shit.>>64725692>here in my garage>got my new Model 9969 here>It's 0.2lb lighter and 0.28" thinner than the one from last week.>also stops M995>totally same test report though>I also have a 5.6lb version you can't drop>also working on a more expensive 5.3lb version>knowledge>>64725810This anon is correct. I don't know wtf that guy you're replying to is talking about. Spalling doesn't occur with ceramics or PE. Is he an AR500 warrior from 2011 that got lost? >>64725760I award you the title of kevlarschizo.
>>64725932Dude you're Gilliam, Neetmaster works for Militech> baganon was Apexlol wtf?
>>64725932>I award you the title of kevlarschizo.This is legit funny, in a wtf sort of way. Like he thinks that American plate carriers are made of Kevlar and work as armor, whereas Chinese carriers are not made of Kevlar and are useless, so if you wear a Chinese pattern you look like an easier target? What video game is this based on?
>>64725944Baganon was accused of being Apex because he had the Highcum 4SSS2 on the initial redone /bag/ guide or something, or was it the LTC 26310 or another high-end, mediocre 0101.04 holdout plate Apex has but can't sell? Anyways he was accused of being JOHN SUN HIMSELF by the adept shill.This was when we battled on whether to have the Colossusy on the guide.>>64725951Arma? I think he might be one of VB's arma boys drifting back.
Taking a break from the armor word salad wars, how to I attach a nv mount to my helmet?
>>64723420>>64724853So here's what I've got so far, I think I'm going to leave the knife and owb pistol for my regular pants belt, I also don't think I'll be cramming a second canteen on here but I may replace the current one with a cook set one and clip this one to my bag. The vest portion holds six mags. And has attachment points for other stuff so I may move the ifak up to my chest from the small of my back.
>>64726078>word saladno brother it's chinese hot pot>nv mount to helmetWhat kind of helmet, that one? Are you a stormcloak?
>>64725974John Sun definitely posted here before, though. I remember it. I think it was 2-3 years ago.
>>64713657>>64713743>>64713774Or you can split the difference and get an enhanced edition made by white people for ~$42 shipped.Oh, wait, sorry, you can't. ^_^>>64713763Easy question: which one of these armies BTFO the other in the winter?>>64714280>the famous Strike Face brandlmao>>64716131This general's signal-to-noise ratio is, IMO, very high, rivaled only by Tg channels of SMO-active specialists and their comment chats.>>64716482>Do you think you have the pain tolerance to pack your own GSW?Nobody does, if they think they do, they never tried, and if they assume they can self-anesthesize to the point they can and still remain functional, they're either delusional and\or a degenerate junkie you shouldn't trust with a firearm in the first place.EVERYTHING in your IFAK is intended to be used on you by a buddy providing first aid in the red\yellow area, except maybe the TQs. Combat anaesthetics are not supposed to keep you functional through life-threatening injuries, they're supposed to keep you from dying of shock during first aid and transport to care point.On that note, investigate your options for acquiring Nefopam in single-use syrettes. It's a non-opioid analgesic that's non-schedule in most jurisdictions, works pretty well on its own and greatly enhances the effect of issue opioids, thus requiring less of them and lessening the risk of overdose.
>>64726087>What kind of helmetA viking spectacle helm. https://www.darkknightarmoury.com/product/viking-spectacle-helmet-2//pfg/ fags suggesting bicycle helmets over bump helmets, why not 16ga steel viking helm and a helmet padding kit from Amazon? Battery compartment under fur or chain mail neck shroud. Swing down hearing pro with mic and an IR/UV blinker on top where the propeller should goes? Add some antler tips and mesh eye hole guards and you are ready to start learning engraving! But the qd mount for nv is a starting point. I have no problem getting out the drill and die grinder for clearances.
>>64726140>Nobody does, if they think they do, they never triedThis realization is what made me finally stop worrying about being able to access the contents of my IFAK on my own. The only shit I could realistically use out of it is the equivalent of an ETB. And an ETB isn't going to save anyone's life by itself.
>>64726143I don't think you're serious. But, anyway, the answer to your question is to use a carbide drill to punch three holes into your helmet and install a Wilcox-style shroud. You can use rubber washers as spacers if you need to.
>>64726166>Wilcox-style shroudI am a leaf on the wind, watch me fly!
>>64726177>Wilcox-style shroudMetal, 3-hole, $17. https://www.ebay.com/itm/388896733429?
>>64725512>climbing aid for slack top chain link fencesWould a ratchet strap work? You could cut the long end webbing to desired size.What might be even better is connecting two hooks on either end of the ratchet so that you would not be pulling the top down at a single point.You're going to create an overhang though, so the far side would be where you want to pull from. I don't know how you'd remove the climbing aid once over the other side.There was a someone on youtube with security minded content that had produced a folding step that you simply hang on the links. Seemed okay. I stopped watching his videos because he was trying to fundraise to get his tranny bf out of prison, or some gayness like that.
>>64726123He was everywhere. Reddit, here, I think even arfcom for a short while. He got ran out of town. The dude lies about plate specs like crazy, it's ridiculous this is Highcom's second-best dealer after Chase "the other companies made it fail!" Tactical. I think they might be third depending on who moved more 4SUS4s, them or Rachel.You can usually tell who's a shill if they start vehemently attacking another company or they say crazy shit, like Militech being the most reputable armor company. :)>>64726140I want those 7N37 super granits Rusanon. I want them now.
>>64713763Neither. Lightweight wool, mid weight grid fleece, or heavyweight (windproof) fleece.
>>64718722The thermoforming shop in question consists of a press ghetto-rigged out of a couple thick sheets of rubber, a hot air gun and IR thermometer. Kydex is stupid easy to work with, there's a reason it's a free option with most garage-made custom knives.>>64720086They could easily certify to GOST specs. Now that I think of it, I'd bet a bottle of my uncle's exclusive plum hooch that they actually did, multiple times, through different fronts. GOST armor authorities actually DGAF about place of manufacture, only about consistent results.>>64721642Anons are right, tubes on the shoulder are shitload of extra bulk and risk for little benefit. Consider installing a cobra instead.>>64722539>>64723063You'd hope they pivot to a high-coverage modular system with (optional) internal harness like Russia did with KBS Strelok, but in reality, you're getting moldy-ass (i)OTVs.>>64722601Probably. Helikon is one of the hype-beastliest gear outfits there is, they might be front-running or even trying to force-meme this in themselves.>>64723529Eat a bag of gummy bears while you're moving to contact. Hasn't failed me yet.>>64726246I noticed A2 poasting an old and rare Ars Arma drop leg holster ITT. Maybe he has a plug?
>>64726194These are the ones that come on the fma clone helmets and they work surprisingly well.
>>64726285>Anons are right, tubes on the shoulder are shitload of extra bulk and risk for little benefit. Consider installing a cobra instead.Nah this anon (me) is right. It's fine and I have had zero issues. A QD on at least one shoulder means my medics can strip my armor off without removing my helmet or taking shears to it.
>>64726078Based & varangian-pilled. Get it covered in offroad wrinke-plastic for maximum tacticool.>>64726151It should still be in a location that's easily accessible and standardized across your unit, so your buddy always knows where it is and how to get to it. In the first year of my training we drilled first aid and CASEVAC more than any other single task.>>64726306Cobra is just as QD as a tube, is actually load rated (relevant for recovery situations) and completely flat for a negligible weight penalty vs. same size tube. Using anything else is just a cost-saving measure by the carrier vendor, and even then, the good ones provide an option to order cobras on the shoulders from factory.
>>64726329>relevant for recovery situationsWe use DARC straps as standard because choking out your casualty with his armor is not ideal
>>64726329>Cobra is just as QD as a tube, is actually load rated (relevant for recovery situations) and completely flat for a negligible weight penalty vs. same size tube. Using anything else is just a cost-saving measure by the carrier vendor, and even then, the good ones provide an option to order cobras on the shoulders from factory.Have you ever worn a carrier before? What the fuck do you need cobra buckles on your shoulders for? They're completely useless and add weight, bulk, and cost. Just pointless.
we should bring back /bag/ so that armor autist doesn't take up 75% of this thread
>>64726414It's fine. If you want to talk about anything else, feel free. /k/ doesn't need more generals, least of all when they tend to slide off page 10. /gq/ is as good as it has ever been.
>>64726418>/gq/ is as good as it has ever been.ok new friend
>>64726361>choking out your casualty with his armor is not idealDefinitely not, but often, you're just grabbing the dude by his shoulder straps to yank him a few meters behind cover, and that's the least appropriate moment for one of his shoulders to QD itself.>>64726381>Have you ever worn a carrier before?Of course not, I'm just a nogunz larperator shitpoasting inb2n raids of Tarkov.>add weightNot that much, Al cobra weighs about double what tubes do.>bulkIt's dimensionally smaller than same size SRB, nevermind the tubes with its protruding lever.>and costTrue.dat, that's why it's optional.>What the fuck do you need cobra buckles on your shoulders for?To be absolutely, positively, DEAD NUTS sure that it won't come undone unless I deliberately release it. I've had various closures on LBE fail on me during recovery drills and it's not fun at all.
>>64726083Updated, got my bag with bladder attached to the rest of the rig.
>>64726492Currently trying to attach this mag pouch to the outside of the bag for extra storage space and camo coverage. The bag has straps but the strap on the pouch doesn't come loose. Open to any suggestions but I don't know how to sew. May just zip tie it, idk.
>>64726286>work surprisingly well.Good to know, thx. Doing a coupel Sept2s, also.>>64726329>Based & varangian-pilled.Thx. People should be brave and not afraid to express themselves.
>>64726427Chief, we're less than seventy posts away from hitting bump limit on a three day old thread. /gq/ was dying and it's in great shape these days. The 4403 debacle was a big deal so it dominated last thread. The Adept Archon and Gilliam 9969 are potentially big deals too, so they again dominate.If the 9969 is everything GTS is pumping it up as, it will be an almost perfect generalist Level IV plate. I don't think it will be. The deal is IMO too good unless I see a new test report.>>64726418I agree. You can ignore the armor convo entirely if you like, it makes no difference.
It's been about a year since I put together a modernized belt kit. Did it because I remember loving ALICE when I was younger and sought to replicate that with new and expensive lightweight gear. I've worn it a bunch and generally like it. But I have some thoughts on belt kit in general that I think is missed when people are hyping it up. Primarily, LBE is lauded as "dude way more comfortable and efficient than chest rigs or a plate carrier!" What all the influencers and redditors leave out is that this is only true when you've got an actual 24-36 hour load of stuff. It's actually extremely uncomfortable compared to a chest rig for a light combat load. 7 mags, 2L water, an a pistol with nothing in the buttpack SUCKS to wear. Or if you drink your water and eat the food in your buttpack, LBE becomes immediately unbalanced and gets less comfortable. Where the 25lbs load seems to float on your hips with 2L of water, once you're down to 1L on one side you suddenly feel everything again. I've experimented with going back to a "recce" chest rig plus 15-20L backpack and have found it's much more comfortable in more conditions and stays that way regardless of how much of my stuff gets used up. And going forward, I'm pretty much always using my chest rig+assault pack alongside the LBE so I can drop the LBE. Mission dictates gear and all of that, so maybe I'm not hiking through difficult enough terrain to really see the huge advantage of LBE as a standalone system. Maybe I should have just bought a DZ-rig instead of trying to customize stuff. Ultimately, although I do really like my belt kit despite my realizations, I think a lot of their resurgence comes from minuteman-type dudes who go on long solo foot patrols taking inspiration from the Ukraine War but not realizing that real soldiers use the stuff on their LBE and/or shed it off in the trench while utilizing their PC/chest rig for most combat. Anyway, I'm just a LARPer walking around in the wilderness so whatever.
>>64726285>They could easily certify to GOST specs.Militech plates run about 40mm BFD in some reports without a drop test. How do you propose they meet GOST <17mm? They just use a CAP?Militech has a lot of model numbers. Bad news with GOST and VPAM is that there's no public compliant product list, unlike NIJ. The CPL tells us what actually passes muster.
>>64726680I noticed the same things while playing around with my ALICE rig for the last few years. when you have it loaded up and balanced it's pretty comfy, but when you start using some of the stuff in it like mags or water or some of the items in the buttpack the balance is all fucked up. I also played around with a DZ rig a little bit but ultimately came to the conclusion that the lack of a true buttpack made it hold enough less than my ALICE rig that I'd need to wear a pack, and if I'm already wearing a pack I might as well put more stuff in it and just use a chest rig. it is my opinion that LBE should be a substitute for a day pack.
>>64726835>How do you propose they meet GOST <17mm?Make heavier plates? It's more a question of design goals than capability at this point. Granits are extra heavy, but perform to standard even though they're Al+PE inside. They could make a plate with a better backer and certify it as ICW, with soft armor and CAP behind it, to at least Br4.>Bad news with GOST and VPAM is that there's no public compliant product listYeah, that sucks actually. OTOH, the CPL has been closed "pending .07 release" since when? A hard central authority is its own problem.
>>64726975It's a function of how much backer the plate has. GOST-style Militechs will be exceptionally thick unless they use a CAP.CPL has been closed for about a year. Militech has had ten years to certify anything, and honestly they could have set up a strip mall operation in any western Euro country too if they were antsy about US politics. You can get NIJ certified and operate out of the EU / UK.
>>64726835> How do you propose they meet GOST <17mm? They just use a CAP?Seems obvious desu> Militech has had ten years to certify anything, and honestly they could have set up a strip mall operation in any western Euro country too if they were antsy about US politics. You can get NIJ certified and operate out of the EU / UK.Why are you so hung up on this? It's retarded for Militech to jump through so many hoops and pay so much money for a certification that can be randomly rescinded at any time, and could get them into legal hot water. Also, the China ban looks like it's been about five years now. They're still more scandal-free than RMA, Highscum, Hesco.
>>64726926>it is my opinion that LBE should be a substitute for a day pack.Yep, 100%. All of the hype about LBE always misses this key point and focuses on why LBE is an alternative to chest-mounted equipment. It's never an alternative, it just has a specific use case for a particular type of soldiering. LBE is a 24 hour pack alternative that's cool running (keeps the back and chest ventilated) and good for terrain. I think that's probably why the Army's jungle warfare guys were experimenting with it; LBE is perfect for humid jungles. As my original post said, I don't regret putting my cool belt kit together but reality vs what I was lead to expect came up totally short.
>>64727093>randomly rescindedThey have to fail a FIT unless they're unable to provide samples or another exception. The NIJ standards are a public document.>scandal freeTechnically Jinwudun is scandal free, yet does anyone trust their plates? Linry? Aholdtech?
>>64727143Nah that's retardedI like LBE because it's the only way to get my second line off my shoulders when I'm already wearing the weight of a 1960s era combat load just in body armor. Nothing belongs on your second line except water, ammo, medical, and maybe an emergency meal. Keep your jetboils and your rations and ponchos and shit in a day pack.
>>64727177Yet a whole bunch of Chinese companies were randomly delisted for political reasons. > The NIJ standards are a public document.Maybe, but your standing as a foreign company is tenuous and the rules are bent arbitrarily.> Technically Jinwudun is scandal free, yet does anyone trust their plates? Linry? Aholdtech?There's a difference here and it should be obvious to you.
>>64727194ContIf you don't have to wear body armor then there is no reason to go for a full belt rig unless you're into autistic 1Shepherd wargames where MILES gear is involved. MILES only works well with belt kit because it was made to be a drop-in y harness replacement for ALICE gear.
>>64727207Militech is a no-cert Chinese company. Jinwudun, Ahole, and Linry are no-cert Chinese companies. There is no distinction other than Militech tests well with Buff, but he's a paid affiliate and has a lot of issues as previously discussed. >Yet a whole bunch of Chinese companies were randomly delisted for political reasons.Yet not Longfri. Why is that?>Maybe, but your standing as a foreign company is tenuous and the rules are bent arbitrarily.So do what Longfri does. Chinese, actively certified. Your argument sounds like RMA complaining about the 1155 decert. Do what LTC did with the 26605, twice, and there would have been no issue.
goggles or glasses? my country doesn't even issue a fucking eye protection to their soldiers so i have to buy my own
>>64727232Googles for sand and snow, glasses for the mess hall food fights.
>>64727232Without knowing your location, job description, or how much your leadership cares about you wearing eyepro when not in a helmet: glasses.
>>64727229You've determined that they HAVE to certify their product with the NIJ and nothing is going to change your mind. That's fine, but I'm sure that they don't see it that way, it's probably not going to happen, and it doesn't reflect on the quality of their products at all. >>64727232Glasses. Goggles suck. Just get ESS Crossbows or Revision Sawflies and call it a day.
>>64727245So why does Longfri have an active cert? Simple question neetmaster. Militech has no excuse, that's all. Same thing with their test reports. No drop test, why?This is live-saving equipment literally supposed to stop you from being shot. There shouldn't be this many questions. End of story.
>>64727265>So why does Longfri have an active cert?Probably their US stripmall exception, but it's not obvious that such a strategy will work for any other company, and it's also legitimately not clear that it's not fraud. Besides, it's a lot to ask. You'll forgive any other company for not renting a stripmall office for your satisfaction. Again, it doesn't reflect on the quality of their products at all. They should just publish their GOST/VPAM/Chinese certs and call it a day.
>>64726664I agree that /gq/ was dying before the merger but post count doesnt make a thread good, especially when 100 of those posts is just youI cant help but think that listing off dozens of makes and models of plates and going over their minute details every thread might chase away casuals who just want to start getting into gear 2015-2020 was prime /gq/
>>64727322maybe closer to 2018-2021
>>64727309If it works for Longfri it'll work for Militech. There is no fraud. NIJ requires sourcing documentation and Longfri is no doubt disclosing their materials are Chinese.>It's a lot to askNIJ certification used to be bare minimum. It's not a hard standard. DocGKR wanted people to adhere to the higher FBI standard because NIJ is too easy. NIJ only started taking a back seat because (paid) youtubers are the new weapon of armor companies who refuse bare minimum>You'll forgive any other company for not renting a stripmall office for your satisfaction.Name them. Adept used a fitness store, Lockout Supplements, as its address years ago. That's technically fine. Gilliam's would be his house. Also fine if the NIJ can get samples there. Maybe he can put a ball game on in his living room for them. Some wings and beer would be nice.>It doesn't reflectUh, yeah, it does, because Longfri can pass this bare minimum and they won't. Where's the drop tests in actual test reports?>>64727322The problem is we need other people in other areas to help the newbies along. I agree the armor discussions are at a very autistic, probably arcane level, but it's catch-22 if we do a split. Both generals will die. Then we'll be like /pfg/ and everyone will walk like lemmings into 4SUS4 type scandals because there's no autism to give a heads up - "hey, something's wrong here!" >just youListen, buddy! It was only half me last thread, other half was Neetmaster, but for good reason. 4403 debacle was important.
>>64725728This IBA is a front opening vest with two over lapping panels in the front and a single panel for the back. The one you posted is a side opening vest which is more common and conventional. So its not directly based on the IBA. But it is similar in so far as its a full coverage soft armor vest for frag that also has rifle plate pockets. The collar and shoulders remind me of the PASGT flak vest, but that was also front opening like the IBA. So I would describe your vest as a fair conventional for the time full coverage military body armor that takes some features and design cues from other contemporary vests.
>>64725932>>64725944>>64725974>Anyways he was accused of being JOHN SUN HIMSELFI remember that shit. It came out of left field lmao. I don't remember what set it off.
>>64727443based ibaposter
>>64727464I'm like 85% sure it was including the Highcum 4SSS2 on the initial, very early draft of the redone bag infograph. For those unaware, this is a $1,750 a set 5.74lb SAPI M, Level IV. It has been Highcom's flagship since 2008 when it was sold alongside the original, real, actually 0101.04 certified 4SAS4. It is the definition of 0101.04 holdout model. It is not tested for the .06 drop test and is not actively cert.It sucks and there's no reason to buy it.
>>64727484Maybe, I didn't really know their lineup well at the time and Apex outright lies about the specs. So it could have seemed better than it was at first glance.
>>64727493It's aged extremely poorly since last year due to new developments. The Archon is about $600 cheaper a set and mogs it in every way. Neither plate is *lab* drop-tested at this time so there's no argument in favor of the 4SSS2. Archon does very well on youtube, apparently.Gilliam 9969 weighs the same as the 4SSS2 but is about a third of the price. Both are advertised IV + M995.The 4SSS2's niche was that it's a Silicon Carbide plate and not B4C like the 4800, 26310, 9812, etc so it won't get auto-busted by M995 out of a 20". The Archon and 9969 stole that niche from under it.Last thing, Highcom redid their lineup into ICON - basic, ENHANCED - mid-range, and SUPERIOR - high-end. The 4SSS2 is only enhanced, so they're likely prepping a new flagship as part of their big 2026 drop. Get ready... for the retvrn of Apex.
>>64725564I don't think I understand your question or the point you are trying to make.
>>64726083>>64726492>>64726508Nice, looking good. Interested to hear how you like the direct attached pack compared to just going separate. No recommendations on attaching the bandoleer, unfortunately I'm not creative nor do I know how to sew. >>64726680great writeup and observations. Once the balance is off, it's definitely a pain. >>64726468>grabbing a shoulder straphence why that guy mentioned the DARC strap. Better than grabbing a carrier shoulder strap, easier to move the guy into cover immediately.
Thoughts on the Galvion mandible guard/visor? I bought a Viper years ago back when they were still Revision and just learned I could mount those on my helmet.
>>64727813The standoff from your face is good to minimize backface signature, and you can still use it with NV unlike the SWAT-style visors.
>>64727771I'll have to get it out and wear it hiking/hunting to see what works but the pack does detach. I was able to slip the back pack straps through two of the straps at the back of the mag vest. I just ordered some more crap to put in/on it. My thinking is the bag will have all of my camp/survival stuff in it so I can drop that at camp while the vest/belt combo will have all my ammo plus one days worth of food/water/fire building in case I can't get back to the bag. Im adding a second canteen with the cook set somehow. Bag has/will have water bladder, lighters/matches, compass, dried food, salt&pepper&hot sauce packets, extra knife, fire starting stuff, 2 flashlights, batteries for lights/optics, water purification tablets, life straw, extra first-aid stuff, antibiotics, "pocket chainsaw", lip balm, bug spray, extra socks, extra cigarettes. Anything else anyone want to recommend? Im looking for small tents/sleeping bags I can attach to the outside and folding shovels but that's not really something I've found myself needing before. Also I usually see ifaks attached at the small of the back but I'm wondering if this could fuck up my spine if I fell on it like that?
>>64723063>$67.80 shipping
