Post gear. Discuss gear. Chico's got an M1 Garand in the Streetz Edition. Level IV required.Old: >>64713312
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, Neetmaster defended the honor of Jiangxi Jianlei Protective Equipment Co., Ltd. I made pic related. Baganon returned from hiatus. Anon bought some 4403s for the wife.>QUICK AND DIRTY ARMOR GUIDE 2.15CODE: * = actively NIJ-certified, ^ = ICW / non-standalone, DND = do not drop or drop protection is sketchy, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 or U211>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: Tencate CR6450SA or LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (adds 10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: RMA SUCKS (XRT)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI size only!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum IV spec. Look to Protech 2230 if you need more headroom)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P AP?)
Go Birds
>>64732205Go birds. You're gonna need Level V on those streetz. Hit the music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FLo5t89O8A
>>64732222I think I’ll take some lvl 2 or 3a. 2 might be easier to throw a jacket over to hold more fent
>>64732235That sounds pretty good but I heard they've got snipers with .50 cals at the corners of Kensington n' east Venango and then a dude with an M240 on Wishart controlling them million dollar blocks. What's the play?I can give my boi Wilson a call and see if he'll make a .50 cal plate. 8002 on crack.
>>64732287Countersniping from within the trash. 24” 5.56. Head to Chinatown from there and maybe make it in time for breakfast hookah.
>>64732103based xbox360 enjoyer
>>64732222Velocity: "Classified." Classic Pinnacle BS.
>>64733110>Classified because the SEALs use Dragonskin!1!!
Can you /bag/ faggots fuck off and make your own containment thread?Plate weight is a total non-concern for anyone who uses their gear in a professional capacity.
>>64733568>leave so /gq/ can die and /bag/ can also dieee!!!no>plate weight is a total non-issueSo why were XSAPIs never widely issued, and why are all VTP plates half a pound lighter at the expense of increased backface signature?
>>64733568>Can you /bag/ faggots fuck off and make your own containment thread?>/gq/ dies early death due to greenland invasion plansStill, might be a nice break. You will never be shot at, muchless shot. Still, what if...?NM, I got this neat LED lantern. It's gear.
>>64732640Chinatown has massive trash warfare potential, but there's triads man. Dangerous players.>>64733912Nothing ever happens until it does.
>>64733912Cool lamp. I like these threads and I've got all sorts of prep/camping shit I'm trying to organize and make useful but they always devolve into a bunch of bullshit about fucking plates. Plates are great and all but they aren't that interesting, it's just one tiny bit of kit that's honestly way less likely to see use than say a camping stove or sleeping bag or even what clothes you get. I'd rather see/hear about how people ruck around the wilderness and what kind of equipment they've found useful hunting and camping than some bullshit minutia about this plate vs that.
>>64734157Oh and go birds.
>>64734107他们没事>>64734166go birds
>>64734157>CoolThx.>see/hear about how people ruck around the wildernessPretty muchbwhatbthe whole /out/ bd is for. Though I found it saturated with euro "right to roam" BS and the seasonal "what book bag should my mom buy me" every fall, with the sporadic "I hate my (stepmom/dad/parents) and want to live in the woods" threads. Kinda boring, in the end, with the (very) occasional "I'm doing it, here's pics" threads, which had real value. But yeah, the petals flip and rotate, the neck telescopes, usb rechargeable, battery bank, color temp adjustable, magnetic base and cool. Heavy, not for backpacking, but I kayakpack and car camp so great for basecamp.
>>64734107>Nothing ever happens until it doesI pray you don't get shot.
>>64734247I started in out. I like to thing of it as a board for basement dwellers to express what they think going outside is like. I met a couple in person too which was a mistake. Otherwordly beings. Worst one was when this dude thought the meetup was a date.
>>64732205>Go Birds>>64734166>go birds>>64734215>go birds>Cardinals 3 14 0Kidding right? But yeah, go birds.
>>64734278I might have to change my calling card now as the trash sniper, but yes, go birds, except the ravens..
>>64734267>I met a couple in person too which was a mistake. Otherwordly beings. Worst one was when this dude thought the meetup was a date.Hilar. I have picked up scruffy hippy hitchhikers in the past and found interesting stories to tell. One was named Lizard, I think. From my current ao, the whole Rainbow Family is gone and you would need to refocus on Burning Man for smelly hippy vibes.
>>64734294Last I heard of them was that raid. Entire west coast supply took a good hit from that. Burning Man isn't what it used to be. Nearly commercialized now. There's a couple pockets here and there, but very hit or miss on the company. This is one of many reasons why I've resigned to trash sniping.
>>64734157The reason why armor takes center stage is that there's a lot of companies hucking straight up garbage, people aren't told they're buying garbage and those companies are taking advantage of the fact their armor will most likely never be tested. Therefore there's a lot of talk about this or that to avoid people getting screwed. We all have different levels of risk tolerance, plus there's a handful of us that nerd out about specific materials. To us, it's interesting. Totally understandable if it's not your forte.>>64734252Same for you friend.
You see? There is more to /gq/ than chasing 1 dimensional ceramic specs.
>>64734323It's time to return to the chinatown bus
What's the best plate carrier in 2025 and why is it the Spiritussy LV120?
>>64734522They got the bus last I checked. I want eggrolls and hookah so might venture out there soon.
>>64734621You again?I see your spiritussy and I raise you the A-25 Hype
>>64734763That's an absolutely busted design. Why? Because the cummerbund is way too damn high, and way too damn narrow, so it constrains the lat muscles and diaphragm, and unless you wear it very loose it's going to get quite uncomfortable if you're moving around. Foam CAPs and other add-ons don't fix this. Also that shoulder buckle is ridiculous and the naked Tegris/Curv is fucking stupid.Even the stitching on the MOLLE looks weak.2/10 would not use.
>>64734763>>64734984I'm thinking that maybe the person who designed it doesn't have lats? (Lanklet status.) Or maybe it's designed for women who need more compression over their breasts, like a sports bra?
>>64734984Is this cummerbund too high and narrow as well? Or the buckle on the shoulder misplaced as well?
>>64735046Yes and also he's not wearing his side plate properly + it's really digging into his side. He's too fat. Look at that spare tire.
>>64735162Well then, good thing that the cummerbunds attach to the front platebag by velcro so you can place them lower than advertised for proper fit. I'd hate it if I bought FCPC v5, the gold standard in flat range larperator gear, and found out I can't wear it properly because I'm a doughnut-fed flat range larperator and not an Aliexpress clothing store mannequin with shonen protagonist proportions. That would really suck.In other news, A-25 Hype is modular, so you can ditch the shoulder buckle or front flap or chest Tegris piece (it's a QD PALS interposer for phone holders, essentially) or install wide cummerbunds that would support a side plate pocket at correct height for your torso, or whatever else you wanna do.
>>64734725What's the best Chinese joint around there? >>64734621Overpricedussy. It's a reddit carrier for people that bought heckin' Hescorino 4800s on credit and are facing the consequences while also realizing they got noob trapped.>You now remember on reddit the Hesco 4800 was supposedly standalone REV. J ESAPI
>>64735046>Is this cummerbund too high and narrow as well?Are we voting? I say yes.
>>64735636I agree and he also needs deltoids.
FYI, MSAP deltoid pouches are on sale at fleabay, real cheap.https://www.ebay.com/itm/127310861969?The later BAE Eclipse type is in stock here. This will fit soft or hard 6x6.https://www.entrygear.com/product.asp?id=BAE-7611
>>64735981>wearing 6"x6" side plates on your shouldersReal juggernaut hours
>>64736132Seriously oldschool.
>>64736132>>64736137Yeah I'm thinking based.
>>64736132Working spartan armor when? Actually fuck that, Crysis Nano suit when?
>>64736267Probably already in production at Area 51. It's ayyylien tech that tentacle rapes you at nano scale, remember? Are you nigga enough for that?
>>64736295>REMEMBER MEI read some dudes improv'd the MSAPs into knee armor, among other things. Could be an interesting use case for all-PE side plates. Inexpensive way to get rifle rated extremity armor, and light too.>>64736267These might be a little thick, but Botach is sitting on two dozen Protech 2230 sides, 6x6.https://surplus.botach.com/lot-of-24-protech-2230-6x6-lvl-iv-side-plates-dept-trade-never-issued-expired/
>>64732103Queers, how much is a new unopened in sealed package glow in the dark B5 Systems SOPMOD top end furniture set with everything worth? It's the out of print one.
>>64735312this looks stupid as fuck
>>64735046what's with tactical plate carriers being so small these days? They're basically glorified Chicoms now that happen to carry a plate
>>64736562>made in russia
Can any of you boys that have the jinwudun 3a skirt please post photos? I'm thinking about pulling the trigger but I wanna see how it fits on a white guy
>>64736570They are generally sized to carry a SAPI plate and maybe backer. Extra material is just that, extra material. You can get carriers that have expanded soft armor footprints too, they just fell out of favor because SOF favored a lighter, faster setup because of the threats they were facing and the mission profiles. Depending on the next war, heavier setups might be in vogue, like you see in Ukraine. If it's the jungles of South America, maybe we stick with plate carriers that shed water or even forgo them altogether in jungle environments and just carry ammo and water.
>>64736583You ain't getting a pic of me wearing it, but here it is from the rear. Mine is heavily accessorized and also has front + back 10x12 plate holders. The way it works is that it's two belts that wrap around each other. That way it's fully adjustable. You will need the suspenders (included) to keep it up unless you're a very large dude. What's your waist?
>>64736583And here is a Russian dude wearing the shorter version.>Short: https://jinwudun.com/products/nij-iiia-bulletproof-skirt-armor-tactical-skirt-armor-laser-cutting-multifunctional-molle?>Long (Mine): https://jinwudun.com/products/nij-iiia-tactical-bulletproof-skirt-nylon-fabric-equipped-with-laser-cut-molle-system-pe-material?Overall I think it's great. You cannot beat that level of femoral IIIA coverage for $298 and the PE panels pass the smell test. Build quality is decent and with suspenders it provides expansive MOLLE space for whatever. Only decent way I've found to run pelvis plates without flopping into my nuts. Skirt pads them out.
>>64735621It depends. You have to decide what you want beforehand otherwise you will encounter varying levels of mid. Best luck is to go to the filthiest rat infested joint you can find if you want general chinese, but if you're in search of something specific you gotta shop around.
>>64736639I went there once for an occasion and ate at EMei, was pretty damn good. >>64736589On the money. BALCS-cut, interceptor, this whole MSAP deltoid business etc all fell out of favor because people prioritized mobility over armor coverage. Now extremity armor is fashionable like it's 1998 again. If we were bringing up 6x6 deltoid rifle plates we'd be laughed out of here five years ago.Another consideration is the quality of medical care available. The old "rule" is that plates cover your vitals, the area you're proper fucked if you get shot in. If good medical care is unavailable for long periods of time, ex Ukraine, that may factor into whether you want to uparmor less important areas as well.Last part is rifle versus pistol threats. That Jinwudun skirt is only IIIA, which all decent rifle rounds will ignore. CONUS is probably rifle-intensive, with a mix of pistol threats too. It's difficult to get comprehensive rifle protection across the entire body without blowing the weight budget and/or using an exoskeleton, IE that Mehler Vario pixar mom getup.
>>64736656Pretty high tier but expensive. I want that chongqing chicken now. It's the 4403 of chinese.
>>64736676That Mehler getup is super high dollar. If it's boron carbide and good for B-32 API (PM-10) it's probably north of $20k. If it's PM-6 then it'll be a lot more reasonable. Also, I still see gaps. Inner thighs, pockets between vest and deltoids. Small gap between deltoid and forearm plates. Chin. Visor is probably 7.62x39 mild steel core tops, helmet doesn't look anything special.Shit like this will eventually be standard issue but we still have a long way to go. Beats having to ditch a shield that can't make it through a narrow doorway or up a staircase. You are the shield.>I want that chongqing chicken now. It's the 4403 of chinese.Double-fried beef skewers my dude. VelSys PBZSA of Sichuan cuisine.
>>64736706I'd pay for soft armor that would stop basic m193. >ChineseSweet n sour. Classic. Sauce better have at least two pineapple chunks and 2 carrot shanks or they're cheap.
>>64736798>I'd pay for soft armor that would stop basic m193Rule of thumb is that M193 will go through 120+ layers of kevlar with breathing room. Your typical IIIA vest is no more than 35. That's the difference in strength between pistol and rifle armor. About 2001-2002, Second Chance or another big cop shop allegedly developed a 7.62x39 mild steel core rated soft armor vest using a Zylon-Spectra (Z-SHIELD) layup and it wasn't that heavy. IIRC, areal density was ~1.2lb/ft2. Certainly an M193 / M80 version would have followed by 2008. The whole situation with Zylon however shitlisted that part of the tech tree for good. Pity. That set the industry back by more than two decades. You'll have your M193 rated soft armor by 2035 but it'll be costly, using very good UHMWPE or maybe some new fiber.>Sweet n sour. Classic. Sauce better have at least two pineapple chunks and 2 carrot shanks or they're cheap.Never had pineapple chunks and carrot shanks. I've been had. Damn it.>pic unrelated, guy I found on tacswap that totally didn't make off with a shitload of SOCOM-issue plates
Also, if anyone is interested, some dude is selling the 3x3 Ceradyne plates on tacswap meant to go with the Crye blast belt. Boosts the belt to 7.62x39 BZ API protection.https://tacswap.com/post/695f3e565a5e086aacdb85cf
>>64736820Damn shame that. I mean it is somewhat a "solved" problem (soft armor), but I'd like to see more variety compared to what's out there currently. I wouldn't even be mad if they made some strange icw type setup. Not to obsess over icw, but think like a m210 but even thinner. Now if only we could get it to fold.
>>64736848>I mean it is somewhat a "solved" problem (soft armor)The past twenty years of soft armor development have basically been trying to throw money into UHMWPE to cope with Zylon being a total failure. Progress is slow. Modern Hardwire-57 is about where Safariland Zero-G Black Diamond was in 2002.>but I'd like to see more variety compared to what's out there currentlyTo give Safelife credit for once, they're trying to push a robust IIIA+ hard but the areal density is high. NIJ is getting rid of IIA completely with 0101.07, so we're down to two handgun levels (HG1 = II, HG2 = IIIA). I'd like to see an HG3 that standardizes robust 5.7 / 50gr Liberty / 7.62x25 protection. I'd also like to see an RF4 good for 3x M993 so you can cert XSAPIs and an RF5 for .50 caliber AP but you can't always have what you want.>Not to obsess over icw, but think like a m210 but even thinnerRumor has it Hesco has a super-thin, no-foam one shot M855A1 plate. Very little is known about it, rumored weight is sub-3lb. Probably ICW. I don't have a model number but it could be U225. It's similar (but lighter) to the old Ceradyne MSAPI (pic rel, found on reddit) which is an ICW, very thin single strike 7.62x39 BZ API plate in the sub-4lb range. One of the rarer "SAPI family" members. Was replaced by the LTC 28720 in the early 2010s, which is thicker but more robust. I don't think the MSAPI has drop foam.I know people tend to egg on "Hesco rumors" but we did find out the Hesco 3885, the old /bag/ legend, exists. It's apparently the SC3812 and is about where it was expected. 3.8lb, RF2 + M855A1 SAPI M. 3.6lb if it were a 10x12.>Now if only we could get it to fold.Ceraflex says hello. Tencate had flexible rifle armor rated to stop M993 (Ceraflex PL-7300) twenty years before Dragonskin got unfucked, and I'm not even sure if that's so. I just know it's allegedly part-Chinese.
Last piece of armor autism for now. Pic related is a table of Ceradyne ICW IIIA plates belonging to the IMP/ACT family, which was the second-shelf stuff. This is from 2004.
Anyone running moonlight industries rigs? I’ve been thinking about getting their nano placard with a harness for a small chest rig that can also be used on a plate carrier down the line.
>>64735981can I get a >QUICK AND DIRTY ARMOR GUIDE for 6x6 plates?>>6473613210x12 shoulder armor when?
Does anyone run PCC/SMG gear as a primary rig? If so what/why/how's it going?
>>64737011PCC is for concealment and small spaces. Also for wives being they are easier to shoot. Moving up to a 556 AR15 is such a large improvement of capability unless you need the first two things the AR will be the way to go every time.
>>64737048
>>64737048I'm moving down to a PCC from an AR
>>64737008>Quick and dirty side plate guideWill do tomorrow. Gonna be a lot of Hescos, MSAPs, and ESBIs.>10x12 shoulder armorRight now! Buy XLs, they fit 10x12s, then DIY them to your shoulder pads.https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805412958559.html?
>>64737058Saves you some good money on ammo. PCCs are very fun to shoot. I wouldn't want to be in a gunfight against dudes with rifles vs me with a PCC. PCC for more covert or lower danger level and ARs+ for overt in my POU (philosophy of use).
>>64737091Just got an MP5SD and shooting 115gr dirt cheap bulk silenced absolutely fucks. With a super safety it's a little machine.
>>64737096sick
>>64737104Thanks,it's a dream gun
>>64736630How are you supposed to wear a gun belt with that tho? That thing doesn't look tight enough to use the molle
>>64736656>>64736706The Mehler setup is a JOKE, are you guys retarded? There's a video. The guy is barely moving in the thing, he's bow-legged as fuck, his mobility is decreased by a factor of ten. The armor is designed about as stupidly as possible. Yeah, let's prioritize shin, forearm, and outer thigh, lol. Let's leave the femoral artery, neck, and head/face alone. Also, the system is passive, meaning it has no motors, meaning it's going to be completely exhausting to walk (swing phase of gait cycle) and use your arms (nothing is supporting those loads) as the exoskeleton is only "working" and when at rest. Also, it's not even Mehler's. It's the old Mawashi exoskeleton that has been kicking around since the mid 2010s. Everybody hated it, except for Mehler who thought that they could use it to juice up their grift.In short, it's a complete failure and makes everybody involved look retarded.
>>64737276I would assume based on all the slots that it is your belt.
>>64736907>Rumor has it Hesco has a super-thin, no-foam one shot M855A1 plate. Very little is known about it, rumored weight is sub-3lb."Hesco rumors". It doesn't exist. If it does exist, here's a very well-founded rumor: Don't bump it against a wall, and you better pray that UPS didn't knock it in transit, or it won't stop M855 even on the first shot. > It's apparently the SC3812If they have a plate that's better than anything in their catalog and anything the competition offers, and also better than the LSAPI, why the FUCK aren't they selling it? Something has them scared. Maybe it's even more marginal than the 4800/3811/4403, and they don't want it tested by the public?
>>64736589>If it's the jungles of South America, maybe we stick with plate carriers that shed waterThis one is easy. Plate carriers with CAPs that don't absorb sweat and allow for some airflow.
>>64736570It's not even "these days", it's a fading trend, originally brought by 20 years of one-way door-kicking in GWOT and dethroned by return of full-spectrum frag-intensive near-peer warfare in Ukraine war. As I've said, FCPC and Spiritussy are gold standards of flat range hypebeast gear, but you'd be retarded to take one into the drone-plagued trenches. The Hype at least accepts high-coverage modules like Gorget neck, Eyelet deltoids and various dick flaps & danglers, but I'd still rather a proper Titan/Astartes setup if I were to go back there.>glorified Chicoms now that happen to carry a plateA few threads back I've posted about Tasmanian Tiger chest rig that is, essentially, a bigger version of chicom with very optional front and back plate pockets. That's just approaching the task from different angles.>>64737276You're not. "Gun belt" goes with micro plate carrier and three mags across the chest. If you need extra storage with this setup, you sling a proper belt kit over the skirt.
>>64736986It looks like a combination of the haley strategic and spiritus systems placards. I'm sure it will be fine.>>64737415>current thing is the one true thingYou'll be singing an entirely different tune the minute a slightly different conflict kicks off somewhere else in the globe. I'm surprised you're not spamming Sudan footage and mass replying to everyone saying "chest rigs only + rusty AK and flip flops is the current meta"No one ITT is ever going to buy the stupid fucking chinese skirt you keep spamming in these threads. The faggot you posted wearing it is 100% dead and probably got killed by a drone while wearing it. You're insufferable.
>>64737438Current thing is just that - current. Though I seriously doubt you'd be able to ignore the drone threat in any conflict going forward, even if it's another tard wrangling operation like GWOT was supposed to be.You, on the other hand, seem extra buttmad about the fact that the current thing is not like the thing you like\used to\consider proper. So mad, in fact, that you're confusing who you're replying to, randomly insulting people who've definitely laid and hit more pipe than you ever will, and baselessly disparaging battle-proven gear. You should chill and re-evaluate your priors.
>>64737398sounds good in theory but that shit is still gonna suck balls and guys will downgrade
>>64735312I miss dognuts so much. Currently going to bed hungery week after week. Apple fritters, if you're curious.
>>64737512the sUAS threat would be way different depending on the environment and location. If we got into some sort of Indo-Pacific war, logistics and terrain would not allow for the proliferation of FPV drones. Guys are using them because they're available and they have ready access via sustained lines of communication, which wouldn't be the case in the Pacific. Additionally, look at examples such as Israel. Not a perfect example because they're fighting insurgents vs a standing army, but their gear focuses much less on auxiliary protection because they were able to cut off enemy LOCs, so the drone and artillery threat is not as ubiquitous. Thailand and Cambodia also provide a good look at jungle fighting, which is definitely a similar biome for the next potential US conflict given the focus away from Russia and Europe and retrenchment in Western Hemisphere while maintaining involvement in the Indo-Pacific. Lastly, Russia and Ukraine are engaging in positional warfare, so sitting in trenches and slugging it out attrition style is driving armor choices. Looking at the earlier phases of the war, when both sides engaged in maneuver warfare, or at least tried to, you saw a lot less Michelin man because the threat profile was different. US gets blasted all the time for buying equipment and tech for the last war (Sig M7 as a prominent example). We should not consider what is happening in one single (but major) conflict to be the new normal. There are definitely multiple theaters popping off that would be more indicative of potential environments the US would be involved in.
>>64737598A well-reasoned opinion? In my \gq\? It's more likely than you think!Logistics for drones isn't any harder than for any other war materiel. An army that can't ship drones to its frontlines is likely one step away from failing due to not having ammo or food. That being said, actual employment will depend heavily on the terrain. In tropical jungles, absent a massive defoliation campaign a-la Agent Orange in 'Nam, FPV kamikaze drones would be less useful, and recon usage would be severely limited by canopy. They'd still be a menace to ground logistics, though.Michellin man setups are definitely specific to trench warfare in open steppe and wouldn't be as useful or ubiquitous otherwise. The only other use case for something like full-kit Strelok is heavy urban warfare, Mariupol style, and even then, the focus would be on more, heavier plates and more ammo rather than frag coverage.
>>64737011It's going fairly well, but I need a better way to carry multiple mags with the israeli couplers. Mp5k I'm looking to get a shoulder harness eventually, but it's basically the same format as running it with a short single point. >>64736907Had no idea on 2a, which seems insane to me. Is that mainly due to 9mm bullet development or more the fact that it's not really used anymore? Hesco rumor sounds interesting, but also expensive. Hopeful there. Ceraflex and part chinese? Seems too good to be true.
>>64737714Agreed. I don't mean to say that logistics for drones is different than getting anything else, it's just that prioritization would weigh differently. If anything, you'd see sUAS pushed to the front that preference specific multi-use capabilities rather than just flying into someone and exploding. Difficult to get into specifics in this type of forum. If things slowed down, you'd see efforts expand to get those FPVs up, but that's because they're extremely useful in plugging gaps where you don't have the manpower to cover down with more conventional means. All that to say, obviously I don't envision a near future war with China to look like a WWII island hopping campaign, for what it's worth.
>>64737374Well I did call it a pixar mom getup, didn't I?>>64737377Correct. It's like a super-oversized blast belt.>>64737392The U225 is obviously going to be a no-foam / no-drop like the 4800LV / 1165 G2 / 4SUS4. If the rumor is true, it's a specialty covert plate that eats M855A1 one time. Not a good generalist but there's a role.>If they have a plate that's better than anything in their catalog and anything the competition offers, and also better than the LSAPI, why the FUCK aren't they selling it?You can buy it and the buoyant sister plate, which is a tell it's a Hesco, the FXR-Bravo from Tac11. Credential-blocked. It's about 0.4" thicker than the PBZSA, is 0.35lb lighter, but concedes BZ API. $3k a set for the SC3812, buoyant version is about $4k. Hesco discontinued the 4101LV side plates because nobody is running full 4800 getups. This plate is no different. Consumers do not have covidbux to spend on 4800s, so they're only marketed to professionals.
>>64737438You're conflating like three different anons.>64737787>>Had no idea on 2a, which seems insane to me. Is that mainly due to 9mm bullet development or more the fact that it's not really used anymore? Hesco rumor sounds interesting, but also expensive. Hopeful there. Ceraflex and part chinese? Seems too good to be true.Modern Level II is light / thin enough that there's no reason to compromise protection further.The SC3812 is a grand more than the PBZSA. Basically an overt M855A1 + M80 RF2+ that weighs 3.8lb, so it's comparable to first gen UHMWPE plates in weight but far stronger.Tencate's Ceraflex is not Chinese, but Stealth's Dragonskin recently got outed. Stealth apparently owes a Chinese ceramic firm 21k so they blasted him on youtube comments.
>>64732103>Chico's got an M1 Garand in the Streetz EditionWith M2A1? Oh, fug!
>>64737970Yeah he got a muffler on the front of that thang and a thermal scope and a sling with like fifty M2A1 on it hes ready to rumble
>>64738049Don't forget, bandanas are only restricted in Canada, so he will skate on those charges in LA. It's absolute chaos.
>>64737008>QUICK AND DIRTY SIDE PLATE GUIDE 1.00CODE: * = 6x6 only, ** = 6x6 / 6x8, *** = 6x6 / 6x8 / 7x8. ^ = ICW IIIA. DND = Do not drop.>Extremity PE (M80 + M193, no M855)Budget: Tactical Scorpion III+ PE ** (last ditch, Chinese)Mid-Range: Longfri LON-III-P * (better Chinese, normal size is NIJ cert)High-End: Hesco 3100 ** or LTC 23526 **>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no 7.62x51 M80)Mid-Range: Hesco L110 **High-End: Hesco M110 **>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Militech RF2 Alumina Sides ** or Used TAP Gamma ****DND (8x8 also available - watch for delam!)Mid-Range: Hesco 3110 ** or Milspec SBI ***^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1):Mid-Range: Used early Ceradyne MSAP (BZ) *DNDHigh-End: LTC 28711 *^DND or Black Ceradyne MSAP *^DNDElite: Ceradyne IMP/ACT sides *^DND (adds M995) or LTC 28785 ** (pairs with 28791) or VelSys PBZSA-66 * (PBZ-SA sides)>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1)Budget: Highcum 3S9 sides ** (relatively budget)Mid-Range: Later Ceradyne MSAP *DND (tan)High-End: LTC 28540 * (pairs with 28595 or 28570)>Level IV / Conus High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Gilliam RF3 Sides ** (other sizes custom) or Militech RF3 Sides ** (SiC version preferable)Budget: Hesco 4100 ** or Highcum 4S17M sides **** (5x7 and 5x8 also available)Mid-Range: Hesco 4101 ** or ESBI ***^ (REV. G onward preferable)High-End: Hesco 4101LV **DND>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230SP * (Fast M2AP)Budget-Tungsten: Asking Gilliam for a custom 8002 set ** (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus Sides ** (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or XSBI ***^ (M993)High-End: XSBI Rev. D ***^ (M993+)
test
>>64737011More mags than you thinkLike as many as you can carry>>64737598>but their gear focuses much less on auxiliary protection because theyPrimarily murder women and children*>US gets blasted all the time for buying equipment and tech for the last war (Sig M7 as a prominent example). We should not consider what is happening in one single (but major) conflict to be the new normal. There are definitely multiple theaters popping off that would be more indicative of potential environments the US would be involved in.The world is continuing to become more population dense and people are moving into cities. The increasing littoralization and developing urban centers mean that having some gigantic battle rifle that sucks at everything isnt actually going to do well in these conflicts. Small arms are going to be an even smaller part as the conflicts become tighter together.>>64738223>Things that dont even stop 855Borderline malicious>things that dont stop 855a1Shiggity
>>64738223Also as a side bar to this, I'll amend the later version for Special Rifle Threat to be M855A1 OR 7.62x39 BZ API, because it looks like Hesco hasn't actually updated the L110 to match the L211 versus the older L210. In other words, while it can stop BZ API it'll be sketchy on M855A1. Watch velocity.Similarly, exercise caution with the old Ceradyne MSAPs because of their age and probable condition. Many of them are pushing 15+ years old and lack drop foam. Some of the MSAPs will run high on BFD. Buff tested the later tan ones to stop .30-06 M2AP, but BFD was high. Options across the field aren't great for side plates (they're relatively niche), hence why some of the rules in the main plate guide are relaxed and some straight-from-China options are in play.I personally pair 6x8 Hesco 4100s with my Protech 2230s. Plan is to switch to 7x8 ESBIs. If I had to roll a standalone solution again, I'd actually go with 4S17M sides since it's only 0.3lb heavier a piece versus the 4403, and last I checked, Highcum doesn't nominally size side plates. 4S17M will have more headroom and therefore "pair" better with the 2230s.
I don’t really plan to run a kitted out plate carrier. I’d rather be more discrete and use a slick one under my clothes. Do most plates fit in slick carriers? I already own a soft armor vest rated for most pistol threats
>>64738248>American Blast Systems plates that stop neitherBorderline chicanery>M855 / M855A1Anon's original request was for samurai-style deltoid protection using MSAPs. PE plates are back in play since weight is a concern and even Level III PE presents a tremendous upgrade from IIIA. I'll let anons decide what level of protection they need here.>>64738251Generally yes but it's more the question of how thick / curved the plate is and how much it'll therefore present. SOCOM's general rules are:>Overt: 0.8" and above>Less Than Overt: 0.7" and below (ideally sub-0.6")>Covert: Less than 0.4" thick, preferably in a covert cut like VS-PXULV or PULV.You don't run into plate thickness issues with most carriers until you significantly exceed an inch. For example, my 2230s are just over 1.2" and need some wiggling. Anything in the 1.4" range and up (.50 cal plates generally) will have fitment issues.
>>64738248I was not advocating for the M7. Also yes on Israel, which unfortunately is looking more and more like the playbook that might be employed by a US in future conflicts based on recent messaging and strategic priorities.
>tfw you will never have thicc plates that need special carriers
>>64738266Collecting every hesco 4600 post ever recommended by you 7+ years ago>But its delt protectionIts not because it doesnt stop standard issue rounds nor the accessible round idiots think is AP and will shoot at someone covered in armor. >>64738271>Might be the playbookBeing that the US strategic priorities do not include acquisition of promised land by way of genocide of its current owners. I dont think so pal.>Future of conflictsCollection, Precision fires, ISR, Uncontested air and other fun activities are the sole domain of the US hegemony and the tactics will revolve around playing into this strength. Look at recent US adventures in syria, iraq or the horn of africa for how this plays out at scale when the 3rdies fail to adapt their tactics in largepart. The US continues to bend the conflict to suit these needs and unload dirty work to less than reliable regional forces when its seen fit.
>>64738292>handle with careYou wouldn't want it to get hit by something.
>>64738296>Hesco 4600The difference between the 4600 and the American Blast plate is that the former was actually NIJ certified, for a while actually, and functioned well until, one day, Hesco screwed the pooch (a lot of pooches) and forgot to QC the strike faces. The American Blast plate was just straight up shit and anyone could tell a 4.5lb Level IV for less than $400 was a scam. >Its not because it doesnt stop standard issue rounds nor the accessible round idiots think is AP and will shoot at someone covered in armor.That's for samurai MSAP anon to decide if he wants deltoids rated to those threats. Side plates obviously should play by the same rules as your primaries. That's armor 101, like not trusting 4.5lb Level IVs that cost $350 a plate when reputable plates in that weight bracket are all three times the price.
>>64738298Even though it's a 1990s vintage Ceradyne, plates of this caliber usually include an aramid "spall shield" in front of the strike face that would probably double as drop protection to a degree.Would be funny if they failed .06 though.
>>64738296I take it you haven't read the NSS?>US HegemonyDirectly called out as having sunset. While, yes, we will utilize overwhelming amounts of precision munitions, our magazine depth is not unlimited, and restrictive CDE limits are the name of the game when a conflict has largely stabilized. Even though we may steamroll most adversaries, initial stages of conflicts will still require a lot more flexible employment, unless we decide we are okay with SPENDEXing all our exquisite capabilities and are willing to accept not maintaining a reserve for a more intense conflict.
>>64738340>plates of this caliberI see what you did there.
>>64738248>More mags than you think>Like as many as you can carryJust the man I was hoping would show up. I have a home-made minimalist chest rig with five 30's and I have a gun belt with two 30's and two pistol magsOh, I'm getting my 40mm ML37 this coming week by the way. I chose to keep in 9" since I have a 7" M203 already
>>64738348thanks I'll be here all week
>>64738331>Price entirely coupled to performanceThen explain your beloved Gilliam, militech, longfri or similar?Could it be that the other ones are sitting that far out of the pricerange not because the magic dust, dust smooshing machines or a square foot of cordura is expensive but rather because you're paying for the liability and cost of certification? Neither of which having a bearing on the performance nor weight of the final product?No no because that would mean that spamming the same 10 posts every fucking thread would be a colossal waste of time.>>64738343The US wont be involved in any largescale shooting wars, only the threat of the US overwhelming technical advantage and heavy use of auxiliary troops in their respective regions. Your magazine depth of super advanced missiles doesnt matter when the only purpose of them is to saber rattle. Its part of being a global power and projection across the gerlobe.>>64738350Congrats on the ML40Very cool mp5 too bud.
>>64735312>Aliexpress clothing store mannequin with shonen protagonist proportions.Anon fucking called it..
>>64738370Thanks m8, I've got about 90 nipple rounds to load up lol, oh I made a 3D printable foam tipped baton that's B&T SIR case compatible (and M212)They're dope and cheap as fuck, matches full power chalks zero at 50yds using DefTech cases and fiocchi blanks as well as SIR cases I'm going full retard and switching to my MP5-SD for my main focus right now lol. I have a good (for me) 5.56 setup so now I'm trying some weird shit
>>64738370>Gilliamhas lab tests showing drop tests and they're upfront with their construction. Please show me a Gilliam plate other than the OTA shitplates with a cheat ring.>MilitechI don't even like Militech, but if you do apples to apples Militech aces the Buffman tests and American Blast plates that you rec'd failed so bad they threatened legal action to make him take the video down. Lol. Many keks.>longfriActually has an NIJ-certified plate and they ironically make the Botach Battle Steel plates you spoke highly of some time ago.>but rather because you're paying for the liability and cost of certification?The plates I was referencing, Hesco 4800, LTC 26310, Protech 9812-R1 etc, are... all uncertified. You didn't know that? Plot twist, it's because the magic dust is actually that expensive. Boron Carbide is $$$ and the Chinese have yet to master it unlike other ceramics.>Neither of which having a bearing on the performance nor weight of the final product?First off, you need drop foam to pass NIJ 0101.06 certification, especially with a Level IV plate this light using relatively fragile boron carbide. There's also a major problem with consistency given that the top half of those American Blast plates is just PE and will lose to M855 / M855A1. Ironic. You also didn't know that?>No no because that would mean that spamming the same 10 posts every fucking thread would be a colossal waste of time.Having a meltie are we? Better than the twenty year old LTC plates you rec'd a few threads ago that you can't drop because they're foamless 0101.04 holdouts.
>>64738266Sweet. I run an ALICE rig rather than a chest rig. I don’t really have a need to deck out a carrier
>>64738370>The US wont be involved in any largescale shooting warsSo if a happening with China breaks out I won’t be drafted as a body for ZOG?
>>64737415Came across the a21 neck armor while looking at the a24 belt (soft armor insert and stkss compatibility) I really like the idea of the neck protector going under the shoulder straps better than just having some massive EOD neck protector. But they don't list a thickness of their br1a soft armor curious how bulky it would be. Wish there was something similar in dyneema, or at least not .30inch thick which this probably is at least. They make br1 and br1a inserts. Soft armor around the neck makes more sense then the soft armor danglers you see people run, but you could also grab an old school paraclete trauma plate for that. Would definitely be ordering the hex caps which are oos, and the a24 blast belt which is also oos.Either way I like a lot of the offering at ars arma and could possibly still preorder things from tankistore. Given the difficulty in ordering from Russia, is there any decent quality/price options similar in design from Ukraine vendors? Rhizome seems good but isn't clear they ship international.
>>64738370Saber rattling is one thing, deterrence and coercion are another, and they do work. Also, we are actively employing these super advanced missiles, to good effect, but sometimes in cases where a less expensive and finite capability may do a better job. We are working on getting to a better spot, but I digress. You can hope the US won't get into a major shooting war, but we also hoped that there wouldn't be major wars throughout history. Right now, there are conflicts erupting across the globe that are related to US national interests to varying degrees. If we can stay out of them forever, well, I hope but I also plan for contingencies.Allies are massively important to our ability to project power. Midnight Hammer, for example, only happens because of our various bases and agreements with other nations. The administration moving to a more transactional and insular approach may negatively affect our ability to impose the fabled Quick Decisive Victory In all circumstances. Some people see that as a good thing, the end of the international rules-based order and endless entanglements. Maybe, but we must be willing to accept the downstream effects of not being able to call the shots any time we want. Point being, just because there is a lot of positional warfare and emphasis heavy auxiliary protection in Ukraine does not mean that is the new normal for gear, just their normal. The world is a vast and ever changing place.
>>64738393If you want cheap and less than overt, hard to argue against a pair of Hesco T212s. M855A1, M193, 7.62x39 MSC, but no .308 or similar threats. 4.7lb, 0.54" thick. The multi-curve M210 is better in almost every way but it's considerably more dosh. Perfection would be the VS-PBZSA but that's $2k a set and getting hard to source. LSAPIs might be an alternative if you can deal with 62mm max BFD, but they're 3.5lb a SAPI M.Hesco's been tanked lately because of the mediocre 4403 and 4800 performances, but they still control the budget SRT market.
>>64738388Very cool. Using a like foaming TPU air for the SIR rounds?Ive been working mostly 81mm in terms of projectiles lately. I need to circle back to the PD fuse assembly for 37s/40s once im finished with the prox and dly for the 81mm>>64738392>Makes the same post againYeah, we get it. Its terminal.>>64738399There wont be a happening with china of any magnitude for a long time. Both countries rely on the international trade to keep their ruling class and their masters wealthy/in power. Both will saber rattle, taiwan might even be sacked but youre not going to get into a land war in asia anytime soon>But the US says!>But the US gears up fo-Because if they didnt, their adversary would grow unchecked. US has to stretch their adversaries thin to be a truly global empire.>>64738409Saber rattling IS deterrence and a key component to coercion.
>>64738423Indeed, it's terminal that you can't make decent plate recs even though you really do seem to know your shit in other areas. I don't know why that's so. But hey, that's why neetmaster, myself, and baganon are here. We all have our own flavor of retardation, or autism, or sometimes both.
>>64738423TPU-air, correct. 270° with 95% flow and 95% sliced scale. Had to feed directly to extruder from top mounted spool roller.Yeah I really wanted to make an escapement safety but I've been busy with other stuff. I got a resin printer for it though, and a buddy is looking at wax like resin lost wax vacuum casting at home. Oh, have you fucked with the SD? What's your thoughts on sights for it? Gonna try the the UTG rail but I have an MFI if it's shit
>>64738423Yes obviously, but usually the term is utilized diminutively, as I interpreted it the way you did when you said >only purpose is to saber rattleIf you didn't mean that, then I apologize. But I work in strategery so it's usually implying ineffectual deterrence or compellence. And again, the US or at least this administration no longer has a desire to be a truly global empire.Direct from the National Security Strategy, pg 12>The days of the the United States propping up the entire world order like Atlas are over. A land war in Asia is not likely nor is it desirable. A conflict with China is more likely, but not guaranteed with the current state of international trade. How that changes in future administrations is anyone's guess, but if we look at the current trajectory, China is actively growing in importance and seeking out markets to displace their reliance on the US. If we also intentionally shift trade to the western hemisphere via near-shoring, that may make conflict more likely, but that is a long term thing not a Davidson Window concern. War in the western hemisphere, now we are getting to a significantly higher likelihood of near term conflict...
>>64738401In GOST the "A" means stronger than, versus NIJ where it means weaker, so the BR1A panels are probably decently thick, given GOST's tight BFD requirements.>paracleteOld skewl, me likey. >Would definitely be ordering the hex caps which are oosThey show as in stock for me. Shipping is prolly a bitch but I'll defer to Rusanon on how that's done from Russia to CONUS these days. He's the master of raising the eyebrow 'round ere.https://arsarma.net/products/kap-hexs
>>64738250Pretty sure I remember reading in some sort of army report that side plates basically don't wear. It's a lot harder to drop them or hit them in a way that you can get enough energy to actually damage them. In-saps are also rubber-sealed, so I wouldn't expect the adhesive to degrade much, unless stored exceptionally poorly. They probably just weren't designed to stop M2 to begin with. Probably some mild 54R AP, in my opinion, still one of your better options for surplus side plates.>>64738292Speak for yourself bud
>>64738461NiceHonestly the KAC, B&T or similar top rails are fine on the standard mp5. Its the mp5k where optics get annoying. >>64738477>Truly global empireDirect vs indirect powerThe whole reason there is a scramble for greenland, lng, etc is to captivate eurotards and med countries now that russia man bad. Its a shift away from sprinkling bases, paying for everything everywhere and but not a shift away from global power projection.
>>64738520>Its the mp5k where optics get annoying.Yeah my buddy is going through that, was going to try that rear claw point and recoil lug only mount.
>>64738518I remember reading the same. I'm concerned more about rough handling by the mailman, which has killed more than a few poorly packed 4SUS4s, and administrative handling in storage.MSAPs come in two general protective levels. BZ API to match the LTO plates and then the B-32 API LTC 28540s to pair with the 28570 / 28595. Ceradyne's later MSAPs stop M2AP, but they were made at a time when the plates they paired with were also M2AP rated, albeit defectively so.The Adept Colossus is rated to stop .50 cal FMJ at 500 yards. I'd like to see that number if backed with IIIA and a CAP.
>>64738520We can not maintain global power projection without robust alliances underwritten by defense guarantees and global basing. Transactional relationships will not guarantee use of partner resources and basing, which is a fundamental prerequisite for the type of power projection for "short" and punchy use of military power.
sir this is a wendy's
>>64737812> SC3812>>64737812> FXR-Bravo from Tac11It looks like 4 pounds, and it's twice as thick as the Velsys API-BZ, so it's at best a sidegrade.The interesting thing is, well, look at those threat ratings. A lot of them are subtly under the NIJ RF2 spec velocity, and most of them are under muzzle velocity from a long barrel, especially M855A1 (which can go to around 3200 fps, especially the spicy older surplus stuff) and M855 (frequently 3150 fps even if it isn't loaded especially hot).It would be hilarious, but very on brand for Hesco, to say, "uh it failed at muzzle velocity for you, which is 3190 fps, but it was ackshually rated for just 3130 fps, so it didn't fail. Learn 2 read."
>>64738627>It looks like 4 pounds, and it's twice as thick as the Velsys API-BZ, so it's at best a sidegrade.I agree on sidegrade. It may have tighter shot spacing abilities and more multi-hit versus M80 since it's RF2 and not milspec. However, I'll trust a Tencate before a Hesco on that one.The rest of your post is additional proof these two are Hescos, because that's absolutely on brand for Hesco given the 4403 and 4800. They are rated for what Hesco says they are rated for. Do NOT push them past those ratings, even an inch.I've heard the SC3812 is meant for a go fast fed contract and FXR-BRAVO, which I'm going to cut the shit with and just call it SC3812B, a maritime contract. Maybe DEA or coasties for both.Unfortunately, there are only three plates that truly trump the VS-PBZSA. The GEN-5B LTC LTO, the LSAPI if you're willing to concede higher BFD, and the GEN-6 LTO that LTC started making two years ago but has never shown its face.
>>64738627>foam bakers
Well, Gilliam revised the 9969 Level IV plate AGAIN. It is now 5.7lb (from 5.8lb) for a 1" 10x12, multi curve Level IV + M995. $329 a plate or $29.69 a month for twelve months with ShopPay if you live that Aaron's rent to own life.Specs are now basically identical to Adept Archon but half the price. Something smells here.https://gilliamtechnicalservices.com/products/model-9969-lightweight-no-spall-multi-curve-ceramic-armor-plate?
>USMC Releasable Body Armor Vest, RBAV-AF, Coyote$225 From Venture.
>>64738818Very nice, cheap IIIA BALCS and a set of REV. G ESAPIs gets you in the game and then some for less than ten benjamins.
>>64738401Most sources I could find list the thickness for both aramid and PE packets rated to Br1 at around 5mm. Br2 is up to ~double that, Br1A (which is not a real rating) is somewhere in the middle. Also, it's ill-advised to use PE packets for neck modules if you can help it, the stiffness is very annoying, get aramid if you can.IDK anything about Ukrainian armor, reading their language gives me the tic. But I wouldn't try ordering anything out of there right now, both for logistical and business practices reasons. If you can get AA stuff shipped to you, just wait for that.>>64738509That's an interesting site. I wouldn't put it past AA to set up a front in China for intl' shipping purposes, but I would definitely not put it past the Chinese to just rip off their entire catalogue and set up a fake webstore. I'll need to ask the AA reps next time I'm at their store if they sell through China.
>>64737127Does it actually have the ported barrel and long boi suppressor? Or just a look alike
>>64738844>IDK anything about Ukrainian armor, reading their language gives me the tic. But I wouldn't try ordering anything out of there right now, both for logistical and business practices reasons. If you can get AA stuff shipped to you, just wait for that.The domestic Ukrainian armor industry is unironically really bad. UARM is their best company, and is maybe a hair above RMA around these parts, but RMA at least books it when you order plates from them and UARM takes weeks, months even. I'd take Militech over Hyperion. Hescos are well regarded there. 4401s have reported stops and they use 8x10 Hescos as abdomen plates. Around here, 4401s are technically below bare minimum, but we're anal and have the privilege of choice.They had a huge scandal a few years ago where another Ukie company, "Hyperion", promised the impossible and their plates turned out to be basically cardboard. The rest of their outfits are C and B grade Chinesium.
>>64738865>I'd take Militech over HyperionMeant to say UARM here, lol. I'd take a toilet seat cover or maybe American Blast Ass over Hyperion.
