Post gear, discuss gear.Four easy payments of $551.00 with Sezzle for a pair of PBZ-SA plates Edition.Old: >>64815864
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, Neetmaster and I did battle to determine why nobody has a good PBZSA competitor. AI op image made the thread move at lightning speed. Anon cancelled his pimp coat order, and Anon wanted side plates.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.155CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = ICW / non-standalone, DND = do not drop / drop protection is sketchy, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: RMA SUCKSMid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI size only!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P AP?)
Someone post the titty armor, so I can buy it for my non-existent gf. I would load up every molle slot with mag pouches and make her my mag mule.
>>64826245Yes captain.https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807929117628.html
>>64826250I could pack at least 20 mags on that bitch.
>>64826256Z-cup stacked n' saggy magazine droops? Please demonstrate.
Can someone remind me why we don't like RMA over here?
>>64826221DM32-UV, sneed or skiid
>>64826757How new are you? See >>64785677 just for starters.
>>64825971Most women need bigger tiddies.
>>648267571. The new XRT, 1155, and 1165 have an undersized 10x12 and are not actually their stated size unless you buy SAPI M.2. RMA failed to disclose both the old and new 1165 lacked drop protection until they were pressed on the issue. The new 1165 apparently cannot be dropped at all, since they made Buffman skip all drop testing.3. RMA continues to advertise PE-impregnated fiberglass as UHMWPE. The XRT and 1155 use fiberglass backers, not PE.4. The ESRT has a scrubbed Buffman test where it fails against BZ API, an advertised threat. They made him remove the video.5. They sent Buffman 10oz overweight 1192s and tried to pass it off as a variance. Buffman slipped and said the entire "variance" was from the ceramic manufacturer, so the plates' strike faces were 10oz and 0.2" beefier than normal. In other words, heavily reinforced.6. RMA failed to disclose a 1" cheat ring on the 1189 from 2013 until 2018. They failed to disclose a 1" ring on the 1199 from at least 2017 to 2018. They then said these were government contract plates, made to gov spec, when there is no apparent contract.7. RMA cried foul when the 1155 was suspended by the NIJ. They raised multiple theories. An Anon took his out and it failed against two 7.62x51mm Tulammo at 100 meters, all the while RMA said it was a multi-hit Level IV and should be able to stop multiple M2AP - a far harder threat. RMA only recalled six plates, Anon's was not part of the lot. There are apparently other defective 1155s out there per Anon's test.8. Two Arfcommers in 2013 questioned RMA on the sourcing of materials for the 1145. RMA blew up and tried to sue John Doe 1 and John Doe 2 for defamation. Was dismissed.9. The XRT nearly blows BFD limit against 7.62x51mm M80.10. Their pre-2013 plates used imported materials (China...). 11. Their plates now and again show up with torn covers, showing a lack of QC.12. EVERY single plate of theirs otherwise has a catch, and is inferior to options from other companies.
1st 4 shitty AI op pic.
>>64826775Solid budget radio.
>>64826757Internet rage feedback loop. A few years ago RMA was amazing and perfect and Hesco was the worst most unethical company ever and you should never ever buy their plates. Now Hesco is trusted implicitly and RMA is the big evil. All armor companies, especially the ones that sell cheap plates to civilians, are somewhat shady but the minmax autist brigade has to rotate targets periodically or they would run out of people to shit on.
>>64826906lol, way to out yourself as a redditoid. Just stfu and keep lurking for a while, OR if you're a shill, just gb2r.
>>64826915Clearly touched a nerve
>>64826906>A few years ago RMA was amazing and perfectOn reddit, because at the time they had both a full time community rep and Apex Armor rizzing up their products. We've never liked them here ever since the Arfcom blowout in >>64826889. Reddit consistently gets boned by every armor scandal because they don't scrutinize armor effectively.>and Hesco was the worst most unethical company everOnly on reddit, and to this day even though most of their plates are superior to RMA counterparts. We've always considered Hesco workable but not top tier. That has been a consistent gq and bag position for years.>Now Hesco is trusted implicitlyDid you not see the two threads where a holy war was fought against the Hesco 4403 and 4800 because their drop protection is weak and they have virtually no headroom over Level IV spec? We regularly recommend other companies' products if available (Protech 2230 vs 4403) but Hescos are workable.>All companies are shady or do XThe Buffman defense. No, RMA is far shadier than Hesco. When Hesco got NIJ suspensions, they actually made people whole. There are apparently bad RMAs out there to this day. Highcom is between them. LTC / Tencate are much more reputable.>minmax autist brigade has to rotate targets periodically or they would run out of people to shit on.No, just RMA and a few other frequent problem companies.
>>64826915Yeah he's a redditoid, that's for sure. We don't have RMA shitlisted without good reason. There is no reason to buy any of their plates at this time given the issues they have and have had in the last without rectifying them.The 1189 and 1199 cheat ring debacles were by themselves ridiculous. The 1192 debacle absurd. The scrubbed ESRT failure? Ridiculous, but that's only a fraction of their chicanery.Hesco puts out mid products, but at least they're honestly mid, with no major undisclosed catches, and at reasonable prices for most of them, minus 4800 / SC3812 / FXR.
Is there any body armor, rated or not rated, that can take a 50 BMG without killing you while in it?
>>64826951Oh yeah.1. A couple of old Ceradyne plates. SARVIP, 80571, and later commercial models. They require standoff and are limited in what threats they can stop.2. Adept has a Colossus Heavy good for 1x .50 M2AP at just under 2,600ft/s, but it remains experimental.3. The new Russian BR5+ Granits can stop 1x 12.7x108mm B32 API at 800 meters with acceptable BFS if worn with BR1 soft armor and a CAP panel.4. Russian FORT allegedly has a BR6 plate good for 3x 12.7x108mm B-32 API at 50 meters, but it is going to be VERY heavy (11lb) if it works.5. Russian-Chinese Atlant, not to be confused with failure Atlas, also allegedly has a BR6. No test data but keep an eye out for it. 6. Adept's base Colossus stops .50 cal FMJ at 500 meters. BFD unknown but apparently not guaranteed fatal.Many of the above are hard to source. Some impossible. The Colossus is easy but doesn't really stop .50 cal threats. Most decent Level IV plates can stop .50 ball if you ignore behind armor blunt trauma. A lot of Level III PE plates, even, but the BFS is assuredly dangerous. Even shitty IV plates from no names like Rook, which post ~100mm in a test report. To reduce BABT and give yourself more of a fighting chance, buy CAPs and wear em behind the plates.
What is a good plate carrier that can fit both sapi medium plates and 10x12. I have a JPC 1.0 medium but it's a hit or miss with oversized plates. I was looking at maybe an Crye AVS or LBT 6094 due to being able to find surplus sets. Any recommendations?
>>64827046Both of those are fine. Look also to Beez for some of their BALCS stuff.>but it's a hit or miss with oversized platesDo you mean a 10.3x12.3 like the Gillie 8002 or just exceptionally thick plates in general.
>rma stan
Catalyst has Protech X-CAL LPs on sale for $200/set. These are 5.5lb, 0.4" thick SRTs that are good for 7.62x39 BZ API, 5.56 M855, and 7.62x51 M80 when backed by good IIIA. Do not run them standalone. They are also strict no-foam no-drop.https://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/x-cal-lp
>>64827064Honestly any plate over 1 inch tends to be pushing the JPC 1.0 to it's limits. I know i can work it to make them fit but I feel like that's asking for irregular wear or ripping the material
>>64827253My TT vest runs out of room with 1.2" Protech 2230s and 0.21" thick Armor Express IIIA panels, so I feel you there. I like mine but it needs jury-rigging to add side plates, deltoids, pimp cape, and CAPs.
>>64827250>$200/set.Awesone. But ICW is like eating sunflower seeds in the hull and not already shelled. Just a pain in the ass for low payoff.
>>64827321Armor Express IIIA panels for $130 a set, so final price is $330 minus shipping / tax. That's not bad but Catalyst better ship these plates padded. Baganon uses these plates, but for "do as I say not as I do" technical reasons, probably because they're less-than-overt, put on a good show against street threats, and are decent weight.I use 2230s, but because I have a different threat profile. Plan is to build out another carrier with 2120-5s for less intense larp once I get MSAPs to fill out my shoulder protectors. Protech is like secret cop-shop Hesco and their plates overall perform very well, but you have to buy used.I just realized all of the armor autists here use either Militech (Neetmaster) or Protech (myself / Baganon). The /bag/ old guard dudes ran ridiculous shit. MH3 CQBs, 28595s, and 96034s (pic rel, not mine but I wish).
>>64827321I'm occasionally stoopid and forgot to link the IIIA panels, my bad.https://www.ebay.com/itm/227059573828
>The year is 2035>One hundred sellers have been contacted. One hundred sellers have failed.>World War III begins.>The nukes fly, and so do the red balloons.>The hunt for the multicam black pimp cloak continues...
>Ninety-nine red balloons>Floating in the summer sky>Panic bells, it's red alert>There's something here from somewhere else>The war machine springs to life>Opens up one eager eye>Focusing it on the sky>When ninety-nine red balloons go by
We're gonna need more than VS-PBZSAs to survive this boogaloo, gentlemen. Might be time to hit up the VS-TSA, but $3k second hand is... ouch.
>>64827647The aura of a man standing outside cock out with the frickin Tsar Bomba in the background, no shits given. How tall is that mushroom cloud? Puccians will be here shortly to inform us this was used on that supply dump...
>>64826221most unhinged op image of all time wtf is this shit is he gooning to a plate during nuclear war
>>64828734Wouldn't you?
>>64827929>Puccians will be here shortly to inform us this was used on that supply dump...I'm sorry to tell you this, but that wasn't a russian. that was an honest to god schizophrenic called MikeeUSA.
>>64828974I mean at least he's got good taste with those PBZSAs. Better taste than redditors like >>64826757.>>64829013Was? What happened to em?
>>64829077>What happened to em?I think he just got tired of it. or maybe something else...
>>64829098Radiation exposure from Sundial blowing up in >>64827647?
>>64827765>Saar do not redeem baloons.
>>64826775I just got one, but haven’t played around with it. Seems nice.
Anyone have that screenshot with the RMA employee? Was thinking about it recently for some reason
>>64829325Which one?
>>64829312Clean setup, me likey.
I just discovered the buffman 5.7 videos. Addicting.
>>64829611Based. 5.7 is growing on me.
>>64829611>>64829759I thought we debunked 5.7 last decade? What changed?
>>64829773I got bored with 9mm and want either a 10 or 5.7.
>>64829774all I want is a 10mm pcc but there's only shit options
>>64829785That's based what about a hi point.
10mm doesnt beat real armor u need a1 minimum a2 said so
>>64829794a2 can't afford .338
>>64829774Why would 10mm or 5.7 not be boring just like 9mm? Try reading or book or something fuck sakes
>>64829789like i said, only shit options
>>64829759I’ve always liked concept but the handgun selection was a bit limited. Granted it’s come leaps and bounds now. >>64829773In what way was it debunked? It’s capable of defeating soft armor with enough velocity. It’s a bit limited on penetration but that also makes it pretty fantastic for defense. Personal defense… weapon. Is it going to defeat plates? No. In the small scope it was designed for, seems fantastic.
>>64829797is he poor?
>>64829840Probably has a high degree of project creep which limits currently available capital. Just a theory.
>>64829840he spent all his money on chin implants that all failed
are chest rigs that can attach to plate carriers still shit?
>>64830051We call them placards and they're the meta
>>64830053I mean chest rigs you can use independently that you can also attach to a pc
>>64830054We call them placards and they're the meta
>>64830057placards don't come with straps to wear without a plate carrier
>>64830059Defense Mechanisms Placards can be converted with an extra thingy they sellthe placards fit my 308 mags very nicely, but ymmv on the whole build-a-bear placard thing they got going on
>>64830059all you need is a 4 side loops on your placard, that's really the only difference, just plug it into a harness and attach a back strap for stability and it's a chest rig
>>64829785>10mm pcc but there's only shit optionsThe 10mm CMMG Banshee is a shit option? Look again.
>>64827191the man dipped lol
>>6482979410mm dumb as shit regardless.5.7 is dope>>64829797TwelvePointSeven>>64826775Needs knob protector
>looking through infographics>20 of them are body armorJESUS CHRISTMAS
>>64829343That’s high praise desu, I’m a product of my time, got in at early GWOT, so I like full soft inserts with plates. Haven’t set up a battle belt yet.
>>64830987Which 5.7 to get is the question. P90, five-seven, or the cope keltec pr57 assault pistol. >>64831015This is what happens with autism
>>64831084The P(S)90 is awesome and FRT is coming soon. Start here. Pistol would be the SW M&P 57, great features out of the box and feels great. https://www.smith-wesson.com/products/mp-5-7
>>64831015There's more in the Reserve too.
>>64831114I’ve been doing my homework. Currently checking out the barrel swap. I don’t enjoy that cmmg barrels are just nitrided now. I haven’t explored cutting the barrel in depth so far but seem to remember it had some shroud fuckery that made just buying a new barrel easier. The og five seven would be nice if the magazine disconnect wasn’t there. Going to have to try one out person before making a decision
>>64831158I would get the SW and I have 2 nib FiveseveN mags. The FN doesn't have a threaded bbl and the SW comes with factory threading.
>>64831084>>64831158P90 basically the only reasonable choice at this timeUnfortunately most 5.7 handguns are shitty, waiting for a glock or HK level of 5.7 handgun now that FN refuses to give us a striker fired 5.7x28 with optics plate and modern rail.
>>64831276>optics plateFactory on the SW. Along with Hogue grip panels. 23rnds mag, iirc. It really felt nice.
>>64831259Very good to know, thanks. We need a threaded barrel for the pr57. Could you imagine how fucked up that barrel would look with the locking protrusions? P90 is very sexy. Interesting to see how to go about reloading 5.7 too. I’m half curious if you could hit the brass with your own dfl spray… obligatory “watching the buffman armor tests with 5.7 is cool too” as to not go too off topic.
>>64831276>HKThey or Walther have an opportunity to do the funniest shit ever now. Even a fnx in 5.7 would be nice. Or we could make a beretta grip even worse. Another vote for p90.
>>64831290Yeah the problem is that S&W is a solidly C tier mfg for handguns. Ive never been impressed by anything they have made. Like yeah it beats out a psa or tisas but goddamn not a high bar.>>64831304Too bad they are too wrapped in the 4.6 ecosystem to admit that 5.7 probably better
>>64831316It would be the highest form of German cope imaginable. Slightly less embarrassing than losing some world wars, but it would be pretty funny. Their only other option is a 4.6 five-seven equivalent but the market just isn’t there and it would probably cost 3k. >s&wSomewhat agree. M&P with a manual safety is kind of nice. Not my first pick though. My hope is that we at least see more pistols coming out in the round. Not sure the market is there though as it’s already muddied with meme calibers.
>>64831316>Like yeah it beats out a psa or tisas but goddamn not a high bar.A more rational comparison would be the KelTec or Ruger 57s.
>>64831316>Too bad they are too wrapped in the 4.6 ecosystem to admit that 5.7 probably betterThere's no "probably" about it. 4.6mm is retarded. Like take everything people shit on 5.7 for, and amplify it x10.
>>64831357We know keltec is on par with Hk. It’s not even close to the shit Ruger makes.
>>64831418Nice, entered in my diary. Thx!
>>64829838>It’s capable of defeating soft armor with enough velocity.9mm does the same thing with the right loads, ditto for 10mm.>Is it going to defeat plates? No.Actually yes. SS190 out of a PS90 defeated an RMA 1003 SRT in a Buff video, although tungsten core 9x19 DM91 will replicate the same feat out of a subgun. The difference is that one can actually get SS190.Basic 5.7 is nonetheless more penetrative than equivalent 9x19, and 5.7 DOES have a higher "ceiling" for AP capability.
Buffman on reddit:>If you don’t care about covering M80A1 the XRT is fine. It’s a little stronger than the 1092 G2 but feel the G2 laminated strike face is better for more hits.Since when did the RMA XRT have trouble with M80A1?
>>64827321>Just a pain in the ass for low payoff.Makes sense if you are using them in a full cut carrier that already has soft armor.
>>64832467That's the idea with SAPI-family plates except the new LSAPI. It's not as efficient as standalone plates because the soft armor is basically delaminated backer, but good if you need to be able to scale protection, hence why ICW plates also show a lot in LE contexts.If you're guaranteed to be wearing soft armor, why eat the extra areal density of a standalone plate? It'll be tougher, sure, but excessive unless you need to beat edge threats. Example, military soft armor backers are similar to NIJ II or IIA. When IIIA backs an XSAPI in Buff's testing, it stops Swiss P AP in said soft armor, which is somewhat higher than M993 - the XSAPI's actual threat."Overbacking" a plate that way is uncharted water but could be useful.
are spiritus plate carriers shit?
https://store.tactical-performance.com/product/v-006101uc.htmlIs this brand good or bad? Do I buy more iX to match my current iX kit or buy u-con? I like both and they both mix well
>>64833320They're meme-tier. The quality of their stuff is generally okay, but some of their design choices are retarded, the way they market their products is retarded, and they're basically a "premium" airsoft/fashion brand.
Nobody clicks posts with this kind of weird/unhinged OP image. AI magazine covers rule supreme.
>>64833622yeah
>>64833320Cant say Ive found any problems with a single spiritus product ive ever touched.Good quality and design overall.
>>64831854Buffman's testing contradicts RMA's test report, which claims the XRT stops at least three M80A1 around 2,820ft/s after drop / wet conditioning. His plate #3 fails on shot #1 against M80A1 at 2,820ft/s (I'm taking the lower number here since he uses multiple chronos). Stops shot #2 at 2,812ft/s, then loses against shots #3 and #4. Vastly underperformed the plate in the report. Buff's plate then stops shot #5 at grossly over-velocity. This indicates Buffman's drop test is not actually that hard and the ceramic is only locally-compromised from prior shots. An RMA stan may argue Buff's plate was 9.75x11.75 with bottom corner cut outs, so it was down on strike face area, but shot #5/#6 being stopped negates that completely. Shot #1 also negates that, since it was fresh post-conditioning. Your ticket already would have been punched by #1 so any stopped hits after that are fundamentally useless unless you're interested in people being able to make use of plates off your dead body. I think that Ukrainian company called Hyperion tried to do that at some point.>tl;drThe RMA XRT does not reliably defeat M80A1 even in a highly-publicized test done by RMA's YouTube affiliate. Considering plates sent to Buff overperform what anons have gotten in the past (his 1155s versus that anon's, and his grossly beefed-up 1192s), that is a very bad omen for anyone here running XRTs. Might be why some people are trying to flip theirs on fleabay and tacswap. Curious as to why RMA didn't scrub this test like they did the first ESRT video...Since the XRT's M80A1 defeat is unreliable and 7.62x54R B-32 API is not a realistic CONUS threat, the XRT provides no usable level of protection above the Hesco 3411 or LTC 19513. It's a meme plate and is actually down on multi-hit against lesser threats versus those two (3x 7.62x51 M80 @2" min. spacing versus 6x). If you have them, highly advised you run some IIIA behind them to shore up protection.
>>64826975>Adept's base Colossus stops .50 cal FMJ at 500 meters. BFD unknown but apparently not guaranteed fatal.Tested against m33, not commercial FMJ. >>64827359>The /bag/ old guard dudes ran ridiculous shit. MH3 CQBs, 28595s, and 96034sWouldn't call myself old guard, but yeah that's me.I wish all the European AP wasn't absolutely unobtainable. Aside from Swiss p at least. I crave dm31. Probably gonna have to pick up a 338 for my next fix
>>64834354The legend returns. Thanks for the correction on the Colossus. You wouldn't happen to have that test report, would you? If BFS is under 100mm it might be salvageable with a good CAP.>Euro API'm under the impression Swiss P isn't really that huge of a jump from M993 (after all, backing a conditioned REV. B XSAPI with shitty Chinese IIIA instead of milspec is enough to catch it at least once). After all, core size is actually smaller. Swiss P just has a longer overall projectile with a lead base, so it's more challenging on the plate backer. I want some .300 DM131 myself for my Savage. Long-core tungsten designs are IMO the future. Stuff like 7N51 will pen basically anything sans the Colossus Heavy.>DM31Does that defeat IV / TSA type plates reliably? M995 / RUAG TC seem to struggle unless the plate is boron carbide, then they sweep unless velocity is low.
>>64834088That's not a Spiritus carrier, though. Their pouches and shit are okay, but their carriers are a problem. These days, even the cheapest Chinesium pouches are usually fine, so there's usually no reason to buy that sort of thing from Spiritus.Also, I'm convinced that the stupid hypalon shoulder straps on Crye carriers are why SOCOM hates them. Those carriers are pretty much disposable, and the shoulder straps are the first things to go.
>>64834606>These days, even the cheapest Chinesium pouches are usually fineBased nuanced alibabamaxxer. Now if they just had the fucking pimp cloaks in stock...
I need it...
>>64834606>That's not a Spiritus carrier, though.Astute observation as always anon!>There is no reason to buy US made anythingShiggity. Though consider: As GWOT surp of good useful patterns dries up and we move into new ugly OCP surp or exclusively chinkshit the utility of spiritus, crye and similar US mfgs more apparent.>But the chinkshit is cheap and I dont careThats fine, these companies are targeting LE/Mil sales more than civilian sales.>HypalonYeah.jpg they stretch but you get a really thin setup in your shoulder pocket>DisposableIdk about that one, ive been getting dragged around in the same jpc for the better part of almost a decade with no real issues.
>>64834392was not given a test report for the M33 only for the others I already posted here (Swiss p and 993).556 AP is honestly probably a fool's errand to increase performance much but just for the novelty frankly.I wonder if there's any developments on heavier tungsten alloy projectiles. Old SMKH shows that they have potential, i'm guessing just not economical use of strategic tungsten. I've already got some of that Swiss P338 that Raven Rocks had, but honestly, with how much the rifle is an ammo cost for that, you might as well step it up to 50 BMG, it seems, unless you're really into ELR.
>>64834685The mk263 floating around is fun in .50 the buffman test on it is quite impressive.
>>64834642>we move into new ugly OCP surpMy day has been ruined.>>64834685>was not given a test report for the M33Figures, BFS is probably ugly and it would be two-faced for Adept to sing the praises of very low backface on the Novasteel helmet but then turn around and say "90mm is okay, applied directly to the sternum!">556 AP is honestly probably a fool's errand to increase performanceAbsolute most you really do is early ESAPI, but it needs to be really moving and you're relying entirely on B4C amorphization. Bad news for anyone using boron carbide plates like the PBZSA, but even the RMA XRT is able to handle 5.56 RUAG TC at around 2,750ft/s.>I wonder if there's any developments on heavier tungsten alloy projectilesThose ~300gr DSG XMP 7.62x51 from way back when? Stupidly slow but the core mass and sectional density are unrivaled. Reload that shit into a .300 winmag.>you might as well step it up to 50 BMGBasically guarantees all commercially-available body armor defeat if you use AP. Last I checked SARVIPs and 80571s need hella standoff and/or are FMJ only.
>>64834722I am also 80571 guy. Technically it's not specified on the plate, but did 50BMG have any non-mil manufacturing at that time? Buff tested it on m33 and apit iirc. But only like 75yd. V50 on both.
>>64834849It was the mid-1990s, so I'd think so. I think his 80571s may have been compromised. Did they have drop foam even? It seems to be a trend that .50 BMG plates are single strike. Even the Colossus Heavy folds against a second M2AP. Future ones really should be ceramic tile array with a seriously well-adhered backer and a thick trauma pad
>>64826221what gear do i need to buy to look like this pax armata loadout
>>64834913$200 gift card to Aliexpress. Purchase DMGEAR, knockoff LAP panel, ELITE SPANKER pistol / rifle pouches, and Jinwudun helmetto.
>>64834642>As GWOT surp of good useful patterns dries up and we move into new ugly OCPAre you a UCP enjoyer or something
Some high roller on Tacswap is selling a pair of medium swimmer LTC 28595s plus 6x6 sides for $2,600. These are single strike B-32 API or 2x 7.62x39mm BZ API. 4.7lb for each swimmer plate. Buff tested to 6x M855A1. Not a bad price actually with sides. Note these are weaker than Level IV and will lose to M2AP. https://www.tacswap.com/post/6979830fb17a59616f667630
>>64834890There's a very thin kevlar layer on the front. Probably does more for ceramic retention than drop protection.
>>64834975Yeah I think that's just a spall shield and/or early form of crack arrestor.
Vie tactical has some nvgs on sale>is it worth getting these or the quad variant, if not, what do you recommend that isnt $10k+?>what is a good bump helmet with nvg mount + ear pro setup that can also use radio to go with it?Ops core bumps might be within budget, but there headphones are definitely not. I remember peltors being recommended to me before but they have a ton of models
>>64834913I think they're trying to copy a recent version of the French Felin helmet. Those are VERY hard to find IRL.
>>64835109>Vie tactical has some nvgs on saleChief these are all digital and will be like looking at the world through a gameboy. Pic rel is their $1.4k digital quad from a review. You can buy new analog from Lindu on Alibaba for significantly less than that. Unrelated, but the $1k Binock NVG-90 flopped like a motherfucker. Turns out most of the ad material on plebbit has been sneaking using the illuminator and obscuring illumination conditions so the sensor seems to be much more effective than it really is. Go figure.Rule of thumb. Do not buy digital unless you're completely unable to either save up or you have no access to analog. The tech isn't there and it won't be there for ages. Digital works if you're able to use the illuminator, but you will look like a lighthouse to anybody else with NV - thus defeating the point. Might as well use a flashlight.
You all need to repent.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTh5J0HsIAg
>>64833566I vaguely recall they supplied uniforms to some FSB units alongside Ops UR-tac carriers, whether you consider that an endorsement or condemnation is down to your own interpretation. Though it obviously has to be noted that if Russia wasn't under heavy sanctions blocking their access to western gear, it would be unlikely their feds would be outsourcing their gear to Filipino and Hong Kong companies.
Man I found an actual picture of the multicam black pimp cloak and it looks like a fuckin' pillow case with a dead cat on top.I almost got alibaba'd.
>>64835829it's over...
>>64835716Those are chinese and russian knockoffs of several atacs patterns, primary discontinued atacs fg and also atacs ix. Both of these knockoff patterns have different colours to USA made. There are actually more apparel and gear in knockoff atacs then there is USA made. The only USA/western made suppliers of atacs' new patterns, iX, FG-X and UCON are things like the image I posted and also beez combat systems, some platatac and helikon tex, not much else. Few others maybe
>>64835956I wasnt talking about atacs/mox in general, I was referring to specifically tactical performance usage by russians. Go through their fb and insta, they're pretty proud of having actual mil customers so they've got albums of their stuff in use.
>>64835956Ops UR-tac does actually license ATACs I believe. It's on the ATACs website.
>>64835829>pillow case with a dead cat on topI tried to tell you to upgrade the collar with real fur from the thrift store. Meanwhile, discount code.Rennie faire larpers be getting LAID this VDay!https://www.darkknightarmoury.com/product/ilmar-medieval-cloak-with-dragon-clasp-red/>Save 15% with code SWEETLOOT!
>>64834956Ranger Green>>64835109>If not what that isnt 10k+Used pvs14Used Anvis 9>Earpro3m rangeguards with gel cups
>>64836640>RGWhat cloak or cape do you run?
>>64829333The one where there was an RMA employee posting in these threads talking shit
>>64826221Regular binos? Looked into the guide and it only had thermals. What do you like to use when backpacking. Is the only reason to get a mono over bino because of weight and size?
>>64836863>use when backpacking.>Is the only reason to get a mono over bino because of weight and size?Yes, for me. I have a Leupold and a cheaper chinko, which is fine.
>>64836826I don't remember that. What was he talking shit about? I could maybe hunt it down in the archives if you remember some pointers. >>64836863Sounds like a based infographic idea. Not my department really so I'll let anons play the field. I need a new pair anyway, I got a pair of Barskas (lol) from the thrift for eight bucks and they suck.
>>64836826Oldfag detected.That was either six years ago or it was a troll attempt from about a year or two back.
>>64837062Gimme a lore update I missed this
>>64837117IIRC it was nothing special, just an RMA rep sperging out. The Agilite rep was way funnier, that guy was a real clown
>>64837131Shorta07 being the RMA rep, I assume?
What is the cleanest, most "modern" looking battle belt on the market for you ? My current go-to is the HSP one.
>>64834930so will the lap panel hang right under my chest plate? or will it need a stomach panel?
>>64837566Depends on the attachment point, but it'll hang with some gap between the bottom of your torso plate and the LAP itself.Also holy shit we gotta stick to the ai magazine ops the unhinged GOONER vidya ops make this thread slowwww as fukkkk.
>>64836548How will a rennie faire coat help a man survive the hood?
Anyone got experience with the Vertx Long Walks? Not enough backpack posting
>>64838687>Vertx Long Walks$110 for a school bag you left at Toys R Us in third grade because the fat ginger bully who got held back three years shook you down for all your Hi-Cs?No thx i got on alibaba get same thing for $6.99
how effective is spray painting shit onto nylon/cordura going to work?I want to turn some of my grey stuff camo and there's lots of stencils for cheapI have access to a detail airbrush too if acrylic paint would work betterI'm worried in tropical environment the spraypaint would bleed off into my skin?should I try rit-dye instead?
>>64838687I'm a bag snob and vertex is worth every penny.
>>64838889buy an ad
>>64838906Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
>>64838931saaaaar cow is not free do not redeem only squeeze the needful
>>64838755Yes rit dye, you can use rubber bands like they do with tie dye to make a camo pattern. Paint should never be used on clothing, it adds weight, messes with breathability and make more stiff. Not to mention probably makes it more flammable. Paint on gear will always fade and run off. I have some UCP gear I rattled 12 years ago and they basically back to UCP.
>>64838969You're mad people are talking about gun bag brands in a gear queer thread. The problem is you not us.
>>64838984buy ad saaar
>>64838980neat, thanksI'll try it out on elite spanker crap first before I try to dye my backpack
Are 1/2 pads for balistic helmets enough to protect from backface deformation? standard seems to be 3/4 but 4d pads also come in 1/2 inch.
>>64839155less bfd is better. There isn't a "cutoff line" like some people think where <44mm is fine but >44mm is bad. The lower you go, the better the odds you'll be able to stay in the fight. Your head is more sensitive to BFD than your torso, so every effort should be made to minimize the numbers.
>>64839155Proper helmet fit is more important. Youre probably not getting hit in the head with a 44mag. Even a shitty ukranian helmet taking a 45acp +P at point blank range has trivial bfd. Truly traumatic rounds that 3a ratings will stop like a 12ga will have so much BFD that you will die regardless of pad thickness lmao
>>64839883Was this off of someone's head or was this a test conducted with a backing medium?>3a ratingsdon't actually exist for helmets. It's all completely made up past II and varies from mfg to mfg. It's like III+ and IV+ for plates, or the infamous V.
>>64838631Style points.
>>64840056>erm actuallyshut up
>>64840056>Was this off of someone's head or was this a test conducted with a backing medium?Raw helmet on the ground so even this is exaggerated. >don't actually exist for helmets.CorrectBelieve it or not 44mm bfd unacceptable on the head.
>>64840083Nah, the helmet standard is a shitshow which hasn't been updated since the 80s and everybody is gonna know it.>>64840090I'd like to see the actual backface signature on clay. You don't get an accurate number with just a helmet on the ground and helmets are where BFD / BFS really matter.VPAM generally is under 25mm, but they also measure the velocity of deformation and not just the final number.
>>64826221Is the Nitecore MT1A Pro a good EDC light? I'm looking for something that fits these categories:>1x AA battery>diameter around .75">length below or around 4">tail cap button activated>comes with rechargeable battery is a plus, brighter the betterI've already decided against the Fenix E12, I have the v1 now and would rather get something brighter and easier to recharge.
>>64838889Are there any brands that provide 80% of what Vertx does? I’m willing to spend the shekels if nothing else compares but I’m not pursuing outright perfection
>>64841025>pursuing outright perfectionNo such thing. Sompin sompin, diminishing returns.
What are some good half-boot trail runner type shoes? I need to be able to chase people down but then not worry about my shoes coming off once I’ve caught them. Normally it would be a patrol type boot but at my job I’ve got free range to wear whatever the fuck I want.
>>64838755spraypaint works fine on cordura, but it will eventually flake off. Don't use the dark brown rit dye like i did, it turned this plum.
>>64841162Looks like my last unfinished attempt, with an Eagle H harness for P90 loadout.>unfinishedI got distaracted.
>>64841025What do you want the bag to do? Vertex is a more polished better thought out bags that fills a niche roll being low profile. You could look at 5.11 or viktos but they aren't going to be as nice.
Decided it's copypasta time.>QUICK ARMOR POINTERS 1.001. Steel armor sucks and frequently loses to basic ammunition like M193 and varmint .223 in the 37-40gr range. Level III steel frequently matches or exceeds Level IV ceramic in weight while stopping far less.2. All-polyethylene plates with few exceptions fail against 5.56 M855 at spec velocity. Steel loses to M193, poly loses to M855. You need ceramics to reliably defeat both.3. Only one guy has ever died from behind armor blunt trauma (.45-70 against IIA).4. Behind armor blunt trauma is still a significant concern when it comes to non-lethal injury. The NIJ 44mm standard was formulated by shooting goats in the 1970s and deciding whether they were seriously injured or not. Lower backface signature (indentation) is always better unless it comes at the major expense of weight and/or compromises in other areas.5. Backface deformation and backface signature are not the same thing. BFD is the deformation of the plate backer, BFS is the signature indentation left in the clay.6. SRT, III+, III++, and IV+ are made up ratings.7. Level III plates are rated for 6x 7.62x51mm M80 at 2,780ft/s. Level IV plates are only rated for ONE .30-06 M2AP at up to 2,910ft/s. IVs are not required to pass the III test and many will actually fail it. You can buy plates good for both.8. Shot spacing matters. Under NIJ rules if a round is closer than 51mm to a prior shot, the plate is NOT required to stop that hit. Some plates are better at this than others. This is their crack-arresting capability for ceramics.9. For helmets, all ratings above Level II are completely made up and vary based on the manufacturer.10. a plate is only required to stop rounds more than 2" from the edge. A 10x12 plate only needs to provide 6x8 protection. Cheat ring rule.11. A 10x12 should only be about 0.15-0.3lb lighter than a SAPI M (9.5x12.5).
>>64841943Something that works for travel but also holds hiking stuff like tents and sleeping pads. Long Walks seems to be better than the Gamut for that
>QUICK ARMOR POINTERS SIDE B 1.00:12. All military plates (SAPI, ESAPI, XSAPI) absent commercially sold iterations are technically not supposed to be for sale. People have gotten knocks on the door from buying ESAPIs on fleabay before, but it's not nearly as common as it used to be.13. M855A1 + M80A1 protection is considered "meta" for CONUS purposes.14. M855A1 is increasingly common and greatly outperforms both M193 and M855. Basic "RF2" (M193 + M855 + M80) protection is risky.15. Do not run all-PE plates.16. Do not run steel.17. "Nominal" sizing is a huge problem. A 10x12 is not always 10x12. Refer to pointer #11.18. Drop protection is a huge issue not just because of field conditioning, but also because the mailmen are rough as fuck with packages and companies don't always ship plates well.19. Use the NIJ CPL to verify plates actually adhere to NIJ 0101.06.20. NIJ 0101.04 plates have no drop protection. NIJ 0101.07 plates have mid drop protection. 0101.06 and milspec SAPI-family plates have best required drop protection.21. Plates are not magic forcefields and only cover a fraction of your body.22. Jury is still out on whether rifle rated helmets have acceptable BFS.23. Boron carbide ceramics suck against tungsten threats.24. M995 is a III++ threat unless your plate is steel (IVs do exist but they SUCK) or boron carbide, then it flips to IV+.25. Plate vendors often don't know what the fuck they're selling. Apex for example exaggerates armor ratings all the time. Refer strictly to manufacturer documentation.26. Priority of evidence is NIJ / military compliance (A) > lab reports (B) > youtube testing (C).27. If something is too good of a deal there WILL be a catch. No exceptions.28. Entire armor industry is shady as hell. 29. Hesco plates are generally fine but only pass requirements by a ball hair.30. Highcom plates are heavier-duty generally but use nominal sizing.31. Do not freak out about tungsten "IV+" threats.
>>64842149>9. For helmets, all ratings above Level II are completely made up and vary based on the manufacturer.Realistically all helmet rating "levels" are made up>NIJ's actual helmet test has been defunct for decades. Level II is a PASGT>Nobody tests to that standard anywaysUsually they claim to conform to a "modified" version of 0101.06, which is bullshit trying to compare apples to oranges. Others will reference NIJ 0108.01 which is a general ballistic materials standard. And more legit helmet vendors like Gentex will reference military standards like CO/PD 05-04:2007 or various STANAGs for fragmentation protection.
>>64842257Agreed, since there's no compliant product list for helmets despite the NIJ's now 24-year-long crusade to develop NIJ 0106.02. I saw 0106.02 is showing up on some websites so maybe they're making slow headway with it. It's supposed to have a standardized BFS measuring formula, a CPL, and official ratings for IIIA / III / IV. At this point HG2, RF1, RF2, RF3 which match rifle ratings but with helmet BFS characteristics.The point I was more making is that there is no standardized helmet IIIA or III or IV. All NIJ 0106.01 helmets to IIA or II are however referencing the same requirements.>Usually they claim to conform to a "modified" version of 0101.06So do a lot of plates, lol. Check the test reports RMA and other guys have.>Others will reference NIJ 0108.01 which is a general ballistic materials standardUsed primarily for shields, buildings, and vehicles where BFS doesn't matter. Also used for face visors and face masks since they aren't really applicable under 0106.01.>Level II is a PASGTPASGT on paper doesn't have a .357 magnum requirement.>And more legit helmet vendors like Gentex will reference military standards like CO/PD 05-04:2007 or various STANAGs for fragmentation protectionWhich is much better in terms of actually ensuring your helm performs.
>QUICK ARMOR POINTERS SIDE C 1.00:32. Armor manufacturers are often not upfront with drop protection. Ex: If a Level IV plate is under 0.8" thick, drop protection is automatically suspect. Examples, RMA 1165 GEN2 and Highcom 4S16 are both no-drop. Use NIJ CPL to guarantee decent drop protection.33. 7.62x39 MSC, 7.62x51 M80, 5.56 M193 and 5.56 M855 are garden variety threats. 5.56x45 M855A1, 7.62 M80A1, and 7.62x39 BZ API are intermediate. High = 7.62x51mm M61 AP or 7.62x54 B-32 API. .30-06 M2AP at NIJ spec velocity is higher, along with 5.56x45mm M995 depending on armor material, and 7.62x51mm M993 is definitively higher.34. M993 protection is nice to have but isn't necessary at this time. There are many exotic threats stronger than it and you'll just end up "chasing the dragon" by trying to stop increasingly esoteric rounds.35. The thinner the plates, the easier they are to conceal.36. Multi-curve > single curve.37. Most men will probably wear a 10x12 or SAPI M but still size yourself.38. Plate thickness above 1.25" gets very sketchy in a lot of carriers.39. Trauma pads' effectiveness varies depending on their material and thickness.40. The best and most proven trauma pads are the 1" thick "CAPs" from Russia with love that affix to the back of your platebag.41. Hierarchy of ceramics is Aluminum Oxide $ < Silicon Carbide (sweet spot) $$ < Boron Carbide (lightest but arguably least robust) $$$.42. Fiberglass is cheap backer. Aramid and/or Polyethylene are what premium plates use.43. Do NOT run most "ICW" plates without required soft armor.44. SAPI-family plates are "soft-ICW" and can stop lesser threats standalone, but this is not proper use and they need soft armor to make full rating.45. It makes sense to have multiple sets of plates. One set for less-than-overt, another for higher threat overt or contingency protection.46. Approximate plate thickness guidelines are 0.4" or less = covert, 0.65" or less = less than overt, and anything above is overt.
>>64826221Hey since im slowly realizing things might get worse due to varying political habbenings and explicit retardation oh both extremes. How retarded would it be if my fatass was to buy some body armor? I will say I'm not serious about it so extreme scrutiny is warranted since I don't really do much of anything nowadays because of my job being a hassle.
>>64842529Buy a gym membership
>>64842529buy a diet plan
>>64842532>>64842538Right, obvious
>>64842529fuck these guys>>64842532>>64842538just get fatterat about 11inches of gut you should be able to withstand smaller calibers without the armorthere's this guy on IG that sprays "dog medicine" on his hands and knuckles and his whole hands are calcifying, he can sand wood with his bare hands. you could spray yourself like that and become a rhino
>>64842609I do actually want to lose weight but I have the problem of only having a genesis health club in my town and suddenly realizing that dealing with a gym membership is a fresh sort of hell.
>>64842529there's not any reason not to, just do it
I've been working on sewing up a plate carrier as a side project recently, and I'm wondering what people think of the various ways to attach shoulder straps? I've sewn carriers in the past that just have the integral shoulder straps and they work pretty well, but I'd like something that allows me to remove shoulder straps whenever I come up with a better idea going forward. I've looked at the fcpc v5 and the spiritus systems, I think copying the fcpc seems like a solid option for ease of sewing reasons, but I wanted to see if anyone here has anything they like a lot that feels secure.
>>64826245Test
>>64842529Not retarded at all. What's your budget?
>>64842634>I do actually want to lose weight but I have the problemI have been going to bed hungry and waking up hungry. Guess what? I have been losing weight since Jan 1. You don't need to pay somebody, just eat less, and not be a self-indulgent overeating fat fuck. Homemade chicken soup for dinner the last 4 nights. Probably cost me $7 to make.
>>64842529I did te same thing after the New York shooting, when the media was going of about him wearing plates. Guess what? Nothing. Still may get 2 more pair.
>>64842883He bought RMA (lol) and the lawyers are still wheeling about that. Now body armor is illegal in NY.What pairs are you looking at?
>>64842919>What pairsVelSys PBZ-SAs and down grading my Hesco 3800s to loaners.
Buff's video on the Adept Archon, or, well, Arhcon is out. Looks like the chronos shit the bed. The M995 is going very slow at 3,082ft/s (? - chrono issues?). Adept specifically advertises the Archon is supposed to stop that round at over 3,400ft/s. The Highcom 4SAS4 stopped a round of M995 at 3,516ft/s in his re-test (plate #8), so I'm not sure why he shot the M995 slow here. Adept is conveniently short a test report on this plate for anything but one .30-06 M2AP. Major discrepancy here and it's making me question the Archon's strike face.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-R0ZZQ6ybEThe plate is lightly nominally sized at 9.875x11.875, so if it were an actual 10x12 it would be 6lb on the dot. 0.6lb lighter than the Colossus and 0.213" thinner but you sacrifice M993 / Swiss P AP. M995 is now questionable so I'm not sure what this actually offers over non TiB2-SiC plates. I also included Buff's table on the Hesco 4800, since that's a pure B4C plate and he subjected it to M995 at 3,283ft/s, which is much faster, and the boron carbide, 1lb lighter 4800 held. Again, the 4SAS4 stopped M995 at over 3,500ft/s, and that plate is alumina-fiberglass basically using 1970s backer technology.Gotta be honest, not liking the Archon here.
Pic rel is the Adept Archon's actual test report. Note the lack of drop test, the single hit only against .30-06 M2AP, and also that the plate is 1.1" in the report but 0.967" thick in Buff's video, plus dimensions are 10.75x11.75" in the report, 9.875x11.875" in buff's video. Weights are 5.808lb report, 5.86lb video. The reason why I bring this up is that if you do some math and correct Buff's plate to the size of the plate in Adept's report, it comes out to 6.31lb. Buff's plate is 0.14" or so thinner, and substantially smaller, but somewhat heavier so that means, working off areal density, his plate has a beefier strike face than the one sent to the lab in 2025. Maybe that's a clue why Adept doesn't send it to a lab for M995 / AP4 / 7N39 testing.>>64843230Excellent choice amigo.
>>64842874This. Literally just stop eating. I’m a 6’0 twink normally at 160lbs but if I don’t eat dinner I’ll lose like 2 pounds. When I was in high school I was at 145 lbs because I didn’t eat lunch in order to work on homework
>>64843379>I didn’t eat lunch in order to work on homework>nerd detector pegged>needle bentBro.
>>64843379based twink. PURCHASE DMGEAR immediately.>>64826250
>>64843288>>64843322Anyways, end result of this is that the Adept Archon Buffman tested is 0.502lb/ft2 heavier than the plate tested by Energetic Test Labs in May 2025. Eight ounces, nearly as much as the 10oz RMA 1192 discrepancy we all seem to be in agreement was because the 1192s were ringers. Major red flag.I ran the same math with the Adept Colossus just out of curiosity and arrived at 6.7lb (vs 6.5lb) if we use the NTS Chesapeake report, and if we took the TNO report and scaled size up to match Buffman's size large Colossi I get 8.208lb. We're talking <0.2lb variance, so the Colossus checks out fine but the Archon is really suspect here. Since the Archon most likely shares a strike face with the Gilliam 9969 (Adept mfgs strike face for both, but Gilliam scrubbed this info), that also is a red flag for Gilliam since he too has never provided a test report that actually shows the 9969 beating M995, and the plate he sent to the lab is about 6.2lb while the 9969 you can actually buy today is 5.7lb - both 10x12. Also a 0.5lb/ft2 difference. Funny.Neetmaster, baganon, thoughts?
>64843633Also, apologies for the double post and the long armor autism drivel, but I'm using "/ft2" to signify that the plates are "size-matched" and not actual square foot weights. The numbers would be different for actual 12x12" square foot but the principle is the same.
>>64843668>"/ft2"/ft^2
>>64843322>Excellent choiceThx. 4 years ago, the threat profile was M855 as exotic. Now, M855A1 is the exotic.
>>64843676>mfw>>64843714I've seen a few threads on pistolforum and lightfighter back in the day where old school SMEs like DocGKR were advising no-M855 plates are inadvisable for general use as early as 2011-2015. PE plates have been around since the late 1990s. M855A1 / M80A1 protection (the "CONUS sweet spot") if you live near a military base was advised as early as 2016.IMO, if anyone is rolling base M855 + M80 protection they're going to be way behind and need to play catch up. The "future" is going to be NAS3 / SIG HYP (et al) hybrid casing, which will give 300-400ft/s boosts. M855A1 at 3,400-3,450ft/s might have those PBZ-SAs on the ropes, but it's going to be a minute before that's common. M995 will already fuck em up, but again, that's "chasing the dragon" and inevitably M995 or whatever at 3,800ft/s will be the future problem. Again, dragon-chasing your way to a 9lb plate. Focus on what's common and what can be reasonably expected. The PBZSAs have that in spades except M80A1.If you want M80A1, maybe look at these 28595s.https://www.tacswap.com/post/6979830fb17a59616f667630
Also, haven't reviewed this video yet, but apparently Badlands smoked even more crack and has pushed 5.56 to 100k PSI (bruh) using new thin-walled metal cases that hold more powder, so if we're talking about future proofing maybe gunning it up to a "IV+" with a lot of v50 headroom might be the play *cough* Protech 2230s for $300/set *cough*.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRYYncVx-ykRegardless, never before have steel and all-PE plates been this fucked.
>>64843888>Also, haven't reviewed this video yet>Badlands [...] Yeah, that much is clearThey are handloads.Like I keep telling you, the hybrid case threats are getting nasty as shit.https://www.gmansportingarms.com/product/gsa-m855a1Even without pressure maxxing, 3300fps 855a1 youch!
>>64843865>M855A1 at 3,400-3,450ft/s might have those PBZ-SAs on the ropes,Then I'm not worried by 16" PSA jokers at the rally.
>>64843865>maybe look at these 28595s.Very nice.
>>64843918I figured the 100k was more bubba tier. Still very impressive. M995 at 4,000 is now on the table.I'm thinking about what could be done with this tech in .300 winmag. Reloaded M2AP at over 3,500ft/s anyone? Potentially several hundred meter standoff pen against a Hesco 4403, since that plate apparently loses to M2AP at 2,930ft/s. Bad news for anyone who thinks they're set with RMA XRTs.
>>64843918>$28 a shotOuch is correct. You can get Swiss P for less than that. A lot less actually. Oh wait, NAS3 Swiss P... hmm... might need a larger core.>>64843926It'll still be pushing into v50 territory on the PBZSA without standoff. Keep in mind the plate has been in production for ten years with no alterations and it was aggressively light / thin in 2015 and still is today, so headroom probably isn't super.>>64843931They're older (2015) but people are asking way too much for the newer, lighter 28570 ($3.5k for front + back). 4.7lb vs 4.39lb Swimmer 10x12.
>>64843288Did you watch the video? The 3082fps shot was AP4. He didn't get a read on the M995, the chrono was stuck on 3082. Probably was going pretty damn fast. >>64843322> plus dimensions are 10.75x11.75" in the reportThat looks like it's obviously a lab typo. Video looked good desu, stopped AP4 and M2AP and tanked a lot of M855A1. >>64843936> M995 at 4,000 is now on the table.Has always been on the table, just reload it into .22CM, lol> Potentially several hundred meter standoff pen against a Hesco 4403, since that plate apparently loses to M2AP at 2,930ft/sI do NOT think you'll ever see reloaded M2AP at 3500 fps in .300WM. Realistically, you might get as high as 3350. That's still a lot.
>>64844012He called 3082 on the M995 again afterwards, no written read from the chrono in the table. Since there's otherwise no lab report you gotta take the evidence you can get. Buff's chronos both shitting the bed on that one hit was really inconvenient and he should have paused and redone the M995 shot on a fresh part of the plate, but that's history. Maybe Adept should have gotten a lab report.>lab typoThat's ridiculous. Just this one time they make a typo, witnessed usually by 2-3 people? >video looked goodDoesn't resolve the weight discrepancy. Don't you think Adept would have said to the lab, hey, this wasn't a 10.75" wide plate? Why not correct that? Pretty egregious if that's the case. 9 and 1 aren't even near each other on a keyboard. Also, what about the thickness difference?>M995Of course, but now out of an AR amigo.>M2AP3,500ft/s with hybrid casing is def on the table. Protech 2230s gonna age like wine.
>>64844012Also, as an add on point, the RMA XRT stops 5.56 RUAG tungsten core AP. 5.56 APs aren't actually that impressive unless driven to specific velocity ranges. Adept specifically advertises the Archon to M995 over 3,400ft/s (north of ESAPI REV. J) and there is zero evidence it's good for that. Even the Hesco 4800 handles M995 north of 3,200.
>>64844032Just looks like the Lab got sloppy with the width on the report. Otherwise the performance seems good. AP4 is supposed to be a lot tougher than M995/AP3 on plates, desu, and the plate also took six shots of M855A1 after already taking a heavy beating.> Also, what about the thickness difference?Buffman's table says "left edge" but the plate is thicker in the center with drop-test foam, so that kind of makes sense if the lab measured peak thickness. Other than that, I think I'd take a Colossus given that the weight difference is less than a pound.
>>64844103>the labI'm sorry, I can't buy that. Jake Ganor is an armor autist of the highest caliber (have you seen his book or his articles on ten variants of exotic ceramic?). He couldn't possibly not notice the report on his site was wrong for nearly a YEAR now.>AP4Similar to RUAG TC, which the XRT stops around 2,750 and that's a plate which is unreliable against M80A1 - a threat defeated by AR500's meme titanium steel plate, the A4. Curiously the A4 loses to M855A1.>Six shots of A1Buff abides by NIJ fair shot spacing. The 4S17M took like fifteen. At some point extra multi hit is just impractical, because you'll be getting hit elsewhere. Reduced spacing reqs like the Cercom and SOF ESAPIs are better.>but the plate is thicker in the center with drop-test foamConceded, it does have the weird ivoryguard pattern.>I think I'd take a ColossusAgreed. The Archon seems really mediocre for $1,150 a set. Colossus is $1,280.
>>64844158Here there's an AP4 vs. some sort of Level IV plate that stopped M995, and it went clean through: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcvwOFjacvA> Similar to RUAG TC, which the XRT stops around 2,750There's a RUAG TC in the Archon video at over 2900 fps, though?I don't know if they've ever been ranked, but I figure the AP4 is overall the toughest 5.56mm threat. > mediocre for $1,150 a setMy pet theory is that they developed it to compete with the Hesco 4801 and got rugpulled when Hesco ended up not releasing their new flagship, lolAll in all, it's not bad though. The only lighter Level IV plates are underbuilt and don't handle tungsten at all, and all of the others are heavier.
Come to think of it, what does the Archon aktshually offer over REV. G onward ESAPI?>ESAPIs are 5.45lb SAPI M, if size corrected the Archon would be 6.2lb SAPI M. With required soft armor the ESAPIs are still lighter.>ESAPIs are cheaper but you have to play the condition games.>ESAPIs are 3x .30-06 M2AP at 2,880 or 3x M995 at up to 3,400ft/s. >ESAPIs are vastly more proven with serious conditioning tests and decades of ETERNAL SERVICE.>Archon got one test report and a video.This plate kinda blows actually.
>>64844191Neat, I'll review the video later today. Thanks.>There's a RUAG TC in the Archon video at over 2900 fps, though?The XRT is vastly below Level IV spec and can't even handle M80A1 reliably. That's the point I was making, not a huge velocity jump for the 5.56 AP.4SAS4 literally handles M995 at 3,500.>I don't know if they've ever been ranked, but I figure the AP4 is overall the toughest 5.56mm threat.Out of them all? FN Superpeforante SLAP, Stiletto BS5, AP45, or the cancelled 5.56 ADVAP.>My pet theory is that they developed it to compete with the Hesco 4801 and got rugpulled when Hesco ended up not releasing their new flagship, lolThe Archon was originally designed to stop M993 per an old article Ganor wrote, but that rating was rugpulled. Curiously, so was the Gilliam 9969 at first. More proof the two share a strike face.IMO, it was meant to try and undercut the 28601 and other XSAPIs but flopped so now it's an awkward plate.>The only lighter Level IV plates are underbuilt and don't handle tungsten at allHesco 4800 handles M995 at over 3,200 and it's arguably the most underbuilt of them all, at least for .06. B4C amorphization isn't silver bullet shit, it's velocity based just like getting M855 through PE plates.
>>64844195> if size correctedIf you scale from 9.875x11.875", you get 5.93 pounds at SAPI M 9.5x12.5". Also, the required soft armor is exactly 1 pound. The Archon comes out ahead.> FN Superpeforante SLAPNever even heard of this, sounds crazy.> Stiletto BS5Is this the one that claims to penetrate something like 12mm RHA at 500 years? "BS" might be right, lol
>>64844213>FN Superpeforante SLAPDude, Google has never even heard of this. Are you sure it exists?
>>64844213>if size correctedNot so fast senor, you also have to account for the less aggressive shoulder cuts on a SAPI vs shooters cut. For honestly sized plates that's about 0.2lb.>required soft armorAny actual Level IIIA plate backer will suffice and frankly you can skirt with good II or maybe IIA.>FN SuperperforanteYes, the bag old guard dudes raved about it. It's on cartridgecollectors somewhere. Fast AF SLAP.>BS5It's still a 5 gram tungsten AP and has a sectional density advantage over AP45. Per Rusanon, Stiletto's chief is the guy who designed 7N37. His shit's good.Long core penetrators are the OTHER future.
Has anybody ever used these as an alternative to Tubes?
>>64844240> Yes, the bag old guard dudes raved about it. It's on cartridgecollectors somewhere. Fast AF SLAP.Were they one of these? Described as > 4.3/5.56 x 45 (FA 72, …LC…8.0, FA 72, LC 73) Bet they go pretty quick.
>>64844259Maybe? We'd have to retrace their steps unless someone has a copy of the resources from the discord saved. Probably in there. It'll merk steel like crazy but I'm curious if it actually has the core mass to challenge serious IVs.There's an urban legend originating on Spacebattles or somewhere similar 5.56 ADVAP kills XSAPI out of a 20". I don't think that's accurate due to the severe jump from 5.56 APs to M993 at 3,100ft/s.
>>64844312Unless 5.56 ADVAP is a saboted round moving at 5500 fps, I think that the Spacebattles guy was just making it up, hahaha.
>>64844348Agreed. Push M995 to 3,800+ with hybrid or NAS3 and maybe you've got a shot.I kinda wanna badger the shit out of Hesco to re-release the 4520.I did some napkin math on that thing (5.4lb ICW IIIA 3x M993) and it checks out with the below conditions:1. It is "hard-ICW" and must use IIIA.2. Said IIIA is a specific model held to the higher FBI standard, so it's really good soft armor.3. The 4520 lacks drop foam and is hard no-foam no-droo.4. It has zero headroom, characteristic of a Hesco.
>>64844397The Army soft armor from that era was pretty heavy Kevlar, like 1.2 psf, so you'd end up with a roughly 6.4 pound plate, which is basically just a Colossus with extra steps, or in approximately that same tier. And that is if it was ever ackshually was a Hesco plate. And then, even if it existed as a Hesco plate, it could be like 1960s NASA, lost tech, they can't do today what they did a long time ago.But you should badger them. If you can get them to confirm ANYTHING about the plate, it would be a huge win for the autist community. If they stonewall you, that's also something.
>>64844437For the 4520? It's an X-threat but not an XSAPI. Probably use some 0.8lb/ft^2 Point Blank or Safariland IIIA. 0.7lb for the plate backer, so 6.1lb for an honest 10x12 vs the Colossus which is slightly undersized. My math says the 4520 is about 0.6lb lighter. 4520 is assumed to lose against Swiss Pingas because that's asking a Hesco to go above its advertised rating. We have it on good authority from VPAM Swiss P > M993. You know that won't work.>And that is if it was ever ackshually was a Hesco plateIt was made by Reed Composite Solutions in 2014. Mr. Ryan Reed is still a COO and the founding director of Hesco's body armor division. The 4400 and 4600 and 3410 and 3610 (notice a trend?) are also from Reed and became Hescos. The 4520 is/was a Hesco. >1960s NASAThis ain't boron enriched boron carbide at Ceradyne dawg. It's SiC or SiC-B4C hybrid backed by good Spectra. Hesco doesn't manufacture their own strike faces so the ceramic isn't anything too special.They better not ghost me like John Sun and Highscum about the RCH. Dicks.
>>64844507lol I'd pay good money to see an RCH after a 7.62mm rifle impact.
>>64844507>ft^2Mom! Mom, I helped somebody today!
>The Highcom Striker RCH (Arditi) Enhanced Combat Helmet is a Level III+ Rifle Rated High Cut Helmet.The RCH (Arditi) far exceeds all current US Military and Civilian (NIJ) ballistics and impact standards, blowing the usual handgun threat protection requirements out of the water. The Highcom Striker RCH is comprised of 100% DSM Dyneema Polyethelene and is manufactured using XTclave™ a cutting edge composite curing and high-pressure consolidation technology. >far exceeds all current US Military ballistics standardsWell apparently it's an XSAPI REV. D. Possibly the worst rating wank Apex has ever done. Anyways, the RCH is supoosedly tested to NIJ 0101.06, so it actually...needs to stop SIX 7.62mm rifle impacts at the full 2,780ft/s +-30. I dunno if that's gonna work man.>good moneyWell this helmet is $2,400 bucks.
>>64844675Meant to (you) in >>64844723.>>64844719Yay jimmy!
>>64844723> Well this helmet is $2,400 bucks.I mean, you could crowdfund the money, but with $2400 you could practically buy Highscum (the penny-stock company), so I don't know bro.
>>64844761Can one of us just sell their grandma's 09 camry and buy this clown company already? When you do that, cut off Apex. I'm getting tired of his boy on reddit's really shitty armor copypasta.
It has been about half a year and I see Counter Croak's 4.4lb (lol yeah ok) Level IV is still pre-order status.https://countercroak.com/bushveld-sapi-plate/Also Tacticon Armament's wordpress website is busted.https://tacticon.com/
Gilliam nohttps://www.etsy.com/listing/4423919568/set-rf2-standard-ceramic-armor-plates?>1 sale in two months
>>64844761>buy Highscum (the penny-stock company)Honestly, right now, Green Coffee Co. is doing pre-ipo and would be a FAR better investment. Jez sayin'...
>>64844940I prefer the che guavagina coffee co down the street. It's actually a money laundering joint for a bootleg cologne business on ebay. They just stick anorexic 20 year old leon trotsky in the front and he jerks off a $20 french press to charge $35 for artisinal ethical socialist coffee.I think it's actually doing better than Highcom.
>>64844911> A fresh Bushveld plate is rated to stop:> 3 hits of black-tipped APM2 30-06 > 2 hits of M80A1The fuck?
>>64844991>Our plate consistently holds its own tenacity against the most devastating armor piercing projectiles in modern times.>M80A1>.30-06 M2AP leftover from WW2
>>64844954
>>64844937>that one guy
Anyways, to cap off the armor autism debate today, pic related is the ONLY picture you will ever find of the Hesco 4520. Bottom right. I'll reach out to Hesco and try to see if they'll talk shop about a twelve year old plate.
>>64842154Id check out osprey or REI stuff as it would suit that purpose better. A lot of people travel with hiking bags now and modern hiking bags are more low key. The long walks are a little small for travel and hiking in my view. It sounds like you don't need a low profile gun bag.
>>64844247Everyone said my ROC buckles were going to break and cause problems and ive had zero issues after a few years of use
>>64845093>>64845116good morning sar
>>64845231Saaar this entire general gone to shit do not redeem stfu with armor plate nobody ever heard of in india we just use our oiled bodies yes saar our abs deflect bullets.
saaaar
