Post gear, discuss gear.Protech 2230 Supremacy Edition.Old: >>64826221
/gq/ crew, has nobody ever used these?
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, three way armor autism battle on Adept Archon. Anon put cat ears on a helmet. RMA sucks. Boobs. Pimp coat is a fuck. I'm on a quest to find the truth behind the Hesco 4520.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.16CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop or sketchy drop testing, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):Budget: Hesco T212 or L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Used Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^>Tactical Standalone (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P) or Hesco 4520^DND (M993)
>>64847954> I'm on a quest to find the truth behind the Hesco 4520.Godspeed anon
>>64847951that seems like it would be super difficult to actuate if it was buried in between two pouches on a cummerbund.
>>64847969Yeah that's a good point.
repostin question from arg does it matter where you mount a LAM on your rifle so long as theres no splash from the illuminator off the handgaurd and muzzle? every image i see of these things theyre hanging off the front but i have mine mounted back like two t slots. im also not running a suppressor so idk if thats why people need them so far forward
>>64847976As long as the laser/illuminator beam isn't hitting your front sight post or the barrel itself, you're good. If anything, mounting it a bit further back is better for balance and less fatiguing.
>>64848011>mounting it a bit further back is better for balance and less fatiguingi agree, thats part of the reason i nudged it back, just wanted to be sure i wasnt introducing some disadvantage i didnt know about, im using an iris3 which has a retardedly narrow illuminator beam so its not touching anything in front of it on the rail
I was traveling today, so I'm late on the helmet spam from last thread. I did stop by the trading post and a fine beaver pelt is $40.
>>64847976it should be mounted on a spot that will hold zero, that's the most important consideration.
>>64847976It depends. Are you going to hit your hands if you mount it back? Are you making it more difficult for you to grip your handguard?
These people are smoking crack.>$1.2k for a 200mW laser dazzler that was under $300 a year ago.
>>64848260I don't think he's that retarded, anon. He probably has that shit figured out.
>>64848346I've given anons the benefit of the doubt before and it was a mistake.
Can someone remind me again why we don't like RMA over here?
>>64848383Not this shit again. Pls go away.
>>64848383>here we go again1. The new XRT, 1155, and 1165 have an undersized 10x12 and are not actually their stated size unless you buy SAPI M.2. RMA failed to disclose both the old and new 1165 lacked drop protection until they were pressed on the issue. The new 1165 apparently cannot be dropped at all, since they made Buffman skip all drop testing.3. RMA continues to advertise PE-impregnated fiberglass as UHMWPE. The XRT and 1155 use fiberglass backers, not PE.4. The ESRT has a scrubbed Buffman test where it fails against BZ API, an advertised threat. They made him remove the video.5. They sent Buffman 10oz overweight 1192s and tried to pass it off as a variance. Buffman slipped and said the entire "variance" was from the ceramic manufacturer, so the plates' strike faces were 10oz and 0.2" beefier than normal. In other words, heavily reinforced.6. RMA failed to disclose a 1" cheat ring on the 1189 from 2013 until 2018. They failed to disclose a 1" ring on the 1199 from at least 2017 to 2018. They then said these were government contract plates, made to gov spec, when there is no apparent contract.7. RMA cried foul when the 1155 was suspended by the NIJ. They raised multiple theories. An Anon took his out and it failed against two 7.62x51mm Tulammo at 100 meters, all the while RMA said it was a multi-hit Level IV and should be able to stop multiple M2AP - a far harder threat. RMA only recalled six plates, Anon's was not part of the lot. There are apparently other defective 1155s out there per Anon's test.8. Two Arfcommers in 2013 questioned RMA on the sourcing of materials for the 1145. RMA blew up and tried to sue John Doe 1 and John Doe 2 for defamation. Was dismissed.9. The XRT nearly blows BFD limit against 7.62x51mm M80.10. Their pre-2013 plates used imported materials.11. Their plates now and again show up with torn covers - bad QC?12. EVERY single plate of theirs otherwise has a catch, and is inferior to options from other companies.
>>64848409Dude he was just trolling
>>64848411Yeah, probably. It's the same copypasta from last thread so might as well just copy and paste.
>>64847957Waiting on replies to emails at this point. ATT purged the 4520 and other Hescos from their site. If I don't hear back from them or Hesco I'll keep trying dealers until someone says something.Internet sleuthing is a dead end.
can any protech 2230 bros answer some questions for me?
>>64848260ive got a 15in handgaurd on a 16in barrel, ive got the lam kicked back like an inch from the end of the gaurd and clamp about 10 inches down the gaurd, i prefer to clamp as close to the muzzle as possible but i can comfortably control recoil from the 10 inch mark, i use a duel lead unity tape switch to actuate the white light and lam
>>64848971Sure, what's up?
>>64848409>being so butthurt about RMA that you not only create that image and copypasta, but save and repost it in every threadYou really need a better hobby.
>>64849576>rma's strongest online warriorAre they paying you to come up with that zinger?
Daily reminder Protech 2230s are still available second hand on gunjoker. Four available, 7.5lb each for a 10x12, standalone Level IV + Level III with no reported penetrations against steel M2AP even in excess of 3,500ft/s. NIJ Level IV spec is 2,910ft/s and the Hesco 4403 conditioned shits the bed just a hair over that (see pic rel).No affiliation with seller. I got my 2230s from another source for just over $340. Another anon bought from him and he accepted his offer for about $150 a plate.https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1153153639
>>64849544 >>64849753do yours pass the tap test on the front side of either of your plates but not the back? on my older plate the back doesn't make any noise but the front does everywhere I tap, not sure if it's just how that one was made or what, but kinda concerned I got hosed
>>64849876Is it a chime or a thud?
>>64849876Mine are mint (they came wrapped) and are muffled. The plate has a trauma pad and front drop pro. Layup from front to back is drop pro -> ceramic -> aramid composite -> "unequal" blunt trauma reduction layer, not counting the plate's wrap. It's possible the UNEQUAL is UNEQUAL between the two plates (variance!) and the extra padding is muffling the taps on the back, producing an UNEQUAL result between your two UNEQUAL-equipped plates. Measure weight and thickness between the two to check, since they could be UNEQUAL.>(I'm sorry, my armor autistic ass is having fun with Safariland's goofy name for a built in "UNEQUAL" trauma pad, because you apparently need that to eat .30-378 M2AP reloads or whatever appalachian methbilly special the 2230 was actually designed for)They're .06 certified plates and were certified from about 2013 until being discontinued around 2020, so they survived at least three FITs. It's always possible you got a defective plate, but that's plainly not probable. Tap is delam and would be adhesive failure. FITs and internal QC at Safariland would have almost certainly caught that.
>>64850095> UNEQUAL lol, who came up with that one? >>64849876The plate doesn't have any foam on the front at all? What kind of noise are you getting?
>>64850208UNEQUAL Technologies.>The collaboration award goes to UNEQUAL Technologies for its EXO pads, which offer body protection to soldiers and athletes. UNEQUAL worked with DuPont to incorporate DuPont Kevlar into its layered pad systems, yielding the first multi-threat, all-fabric solution that reduced fabric thickness, weight and cost. Collaboration with the sports industry allowed UNEQUAL to create padding that protects against blunt force trauma significantly better than traditional foam pads. UNEQUAL relied on Villanova University, Drexel University, Southern Impact Research Center and Safariland/BAE Systems, as well as other industry and academic partners to conduct extensive testing of its EXO Skeleton technology. EXO pads are now used by multiple NFL and NHL teams to help protect players.The Protech 2230's technology is approved by the NFL, NHL, NIJ, and other INDUSTRY AND ACADEMIC PARTNERS. The Hesco 4403 has no such NFL approval. Cringe.>foamIs one plate significantly thinner than the other? Usually drop foam is at least 0.1-0.2" difference in thickness.
How do I make sure m gear is EQUAL and not UNEQUAL?!? Very concerned aboudit.
>>64850227You are paying UNEQUAL attention to such an UNEQUAL matter. Plates always have some manufacturing variance unless your name is Tencate or LTC and you're making shizznit for SOCOM. SOCOM is UNEQUALLY anal about their body armor.
>>64850245I just want EQUAL gear. Checking my canteen POUCHES now for variances. Captcha diagrams are UNEQUAL FUCK!
>>64849910the front of that plate chimes, but the back makes no noise >>64850095>>64850208just tried it again, and it really does seem like the older plate that's not dinging on the back has the foam on the back, while the newer plate has the foam on the front
>>64850255But UNEQUAL is approved for the super bowl halftime show!
>>64850262>the front of that plate chimes, but the back makes no noiseOkay, so the strike face is fine. Chime is good, thud is bad. You're tapping an UNEQUAL trauma pad if you hit it from the back.>it really does seem like the older plate that's not dinging on the back has the foam on the back, while the newer plate has the foam on the frontMeasure the thickness on both real quick. Also, you can press down on the front somewhat to see if it has foam. For example, there's no give on my L210s because they're SRTs and not subjected to NIJ testing. My 2230s give somewhat because I'm pressing on foam. Yours should be between 1.15-1.22" or so.
>>64850281okay I measured them and they both seem to be in specthe newer plate has foam in the front with some give, and the older one doesn't seem to have any at all in the front, and has no give there, but the back does seem to have a foam layer with some give
>>64850403Likely just a manufacturing tolerance, the front foam on the "no foam" one is probably just harder.It would be a pretty major QC failure for one to have a second foam layer on the back. BFD on that one would be super low, lol.
>>64850473> Likely just a manufacturing tolerance, the front foam on the "no foam" one is probably just harder.Manufacturing tolerances makes sense if a plate is slightly larger or heavier, but it doesn't make sense for one foam sheet to be soft and the other one to be rock solid. That could make a huge difference.
Well shit, Botach sold out on the expired / possibly recalled Hesco 4400s.In total that's over 200 plates, since IIRC they started with more than 100 sets.https://surplus.botach.com/gh-armor-systems-4400-series-10x12-lvl-iv-plate-set-police-trade/
>>64850655Probably would have been good enough to wrap the gas tank in your getaway car.
>>64850655Selling recalled plates is scummy, but that's Botach for ya.
>>64850632>That could make a huge difference.It could, absolutely, but if it doesn't cause the plate to fail a FIT (which the Protech 2230 hasn't) then it won't cause any issues at least under NIJ requirements.Either anon's luck is absolutely awful or there was a material switch and the NIJ permitted Safariland / BAE Systems (at the time) to retain the 2230 designation, which they don't normally do but I suppose the NIJ has made exceptions before. Anon, does the "problem" 2230 pass torque?
>>64850632Double replying here, sorry, but if the 2230 at some point had the foam only on the back but then changed, unless the NIJ again made an exception, that would be a different model and would have resulted in a suspension. That didn't happen.The 2230 might have enough "headroom" that even if conditioned sans front drop foam it still beats M2AP at NIJ spec.>>64850666They still have four 4600s for sale for that, lol.>>64850669Very. I have no idea how well the bad 4400s even work against lesser threats.
I'm looking at a ballistic combat shirt. What am I in for?
>>64850672>>64850697UPDATE:I just now noticed that the weird plate actually says protech 2220-1 and not 2230 kek wtf do you have any info on this plate? also I guess be warned if you order from gunbroker you might be sent one or two of these plates instead
Good CR123A brands? Non rechargeable.
>>64851202Okay, you need to square this with the seller ASAP. The 2220-1 is a model in between the old 2220 and the 2230. It does NOT have the 2230's M2AP v0.https://www.police1.com/police-products/body-armor/press-releases/safariland-adds-another-nij-06-hard-armor-plate-to-its-protech-tactical-product-line-odu3jEHraUGbnZTF/It was NIJ 0101.06 cert, so it's fine but not what was advertised.
>>64851227fuck, gonna prolly have to pay for return shipping
>>64851234also shit, do you think I could still exchange it if the listing doesn't ever explicitly say 2230 on it?
>>64851234Maybe not, Gunbroker has a buyer protection program and sellers are obligated to truthfully describe the items. He fucked up, he needs to pay return shipping.>Listed here for sale are Protech level IV body armor plates. These plates are expired. This is a general listing so the pictures are not of the exact plate you will recieve but are all in very similar condition. Completely different models is NOT similar condition. The plates are too different in performance. He only included pictures of the 2230s. There was a misrepresentation here.
>>64851243Yes, he only has pictures of two 2230s. A 2220-1 is nowhere in the listing. Anyone would reasonably believe he's only flipping 2230s. Reminds me of when I got the wrong side plates from an actual Hesco dealer once (SRTs instead of IVs). This shit happens and they should square you up.
>>64851217i just use the duracels but the surefire ones are said to be real good
looks like those plates are really... unequal>>64851372i buy the cheapy whatever brand from amazon
>UNEQUAL gear eplained>not the sameHuh.
>>64851498Turns out only ONE of the plates have UNEQUAL technology. The 2220-1 is like the older cheapy cuck version down on the trauma pad and the turbo M2AP protection.
>>64851522>grammatical mistakeyour education was unequal
How shit will it be? I have a promo code that makes it $30
>>64851644It's smaller than advertised apparently.
>>64851644It's a light duty bag. It'll probably be fine. Maybe the MOLLE won't be milspec or whatever, but only 1% of the people who buy bags with MOLLE ever use it for anything.
>>64851644It's unequalled
>>64851681lol, I honestly think that GENILU, Spanker, IDOGEAR, Aholetech, and all the rest are better than UNEQUAL. It's so bad bros.
>>64851685I would actually like to see DMGEAR, IDOGEAR, and EXCELLENT ELITE SPANKER make plates.They would be... BEYOND EQUAL.
>>64851674>>64851676>>64851681>>64851685I might get it would the savior urban warfare be worth the extra $80 over this?
>>64851707Savior makes good bags actually.
>>64851715thats what I was planning on getting until I saw this with a code dropping it to half price
>>64851707If one's $30 and the other's $110, I'd buy the cheap one first just for the hell of it. If it's good, I've saved $80. If not, I can keep it as a spare or give it away to a friend at some point.
>>64851674So post the code for the class.
>>64851728fair enough ill use my reward points tooHere is the code if anybody else wants to try it8SDPT24G
>>64851728>If notI can use Amazon's UNEQUAL return policy and send it home to CHINA.
>>64851736Hell fuck it I'll buy one. That deal is UNEQUAL. Thanks boss.
>>64851685doomer Neetmaster
Aw shit, you can purchase UNEQUAL to make your own trauma pads and other shit at UNEQUAL.COM!!!https://unequal.com/shop-all/shop/do-it-yourself-pads/
>>64851777Checked>>64851800lmao, and all for the low low price of $79.95.
>>6485184118x25" sheet, so you can make at least two 10x12s. Barely more than what RMA is charging.
Is there such a thing as gloves that'll last a lifetime? Piece of shit mechanix gloves broke after a few days of use.
>>64851906Chain mail gloves. All fabric and leather are consumable.
>>64851736>8SDPT24GPromotion coupon not an option for me.
>>64851906My mechanix gloves rubbed my peener raw
>>64851917skill issue
>>64851217Energizer bought from a local big box store. They are usually newer and you know for sure your not getting fakes. Ive heard ordering batteries online can be a bit sktechy.>>64851644Its really hard to kill gun bags these days even the cheap ones. I'm sure that would last you a decade easy. Just not as cool as the others>>64851906No but there is better quality that would last longer. Try viktos gloves.
>>64851917you have to open up the payment methods during checkout to get the dialog to put the code in
>>64852014>>64851917
>>64851995unequally useful advice
>>64852014Thanks. It defaulted to the Chase card I was issued for the $250 gift card and bypassed that screen. I have already vowed to never use that card and canelled the order in <30 seconds. I may try again tomorrow.
>>64849753>Another anon bought from him and he accepted his offer for about $150 a plate.I'm that anon. Worth noting that the offer was accepted immediately after I sent it, meaning it's probably an automated thing that auto-accepts if the offer is higher than a set floor. So you could lowball less than $150 and still possibly get it.
>>64852167Hopefully he's not slinging more 2220-1s. They're not bad plates for the price at all, multi-curve inactive .06 cert IVs, but strictly inferior to the 2230. Kinda like a 4403MC but better. If one can lowball further, even better.Hopefully other 2230 anon sticks to his guns and at least gets the one 2220-1 exchanged for what was shown in the pics.
>>64851278sent a message, hope he sets me right>>64852207>>64852167I tried offering less but everything under 150 was denied automatically
Any recommendations for side soft armor other than ferro concepts?
>>64851217BatteryJunctionTitanium innovations fine for training and ive actually never had issues with them but panasonic far more namebrand.Also regarding 18650 you should read:https://7802750.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/7802750/White%20Papers%20and%20Guides/Batteries/Lumafield%20Battery%20Report.pdf>>64852624Crye?Are you looking for inserts or pouches?
>>64853306>panasonic far more namebrand.>Also regarding 18650 you should readNoted and thank you.
>>64853306Just pouches. I went searching and saw that militech makes 3A 6x12 panels.
>>64853306>suggesting battery junctionThey sell undercharged batteries in my experience.
>>64853340For what carrier?>>64853319Biggest issue is purchasing. Only go with battery junction or local bigbox like anon said. Some people buy surefire batteries on amazon and then return their dead surefire batteries to amazon. People then re-sell these returns from amazon they buy at auction and you receive dead batteries. Ontop of this>Chinked fake batteriesWithout an xray or MRI its basically impossible to authenticate these cells.
>>64853355Man ive been buying thousands of batteries from them for better part of a decade at this point and never once encountered this issue.>UnderchargedNot really a thing with a lipo non rechargable. Either battery is depleted from use or it is as factory new. Some have a lower capacity/float voltage than others. >inb4 I bought 5 xhnghou AA alkaline batteries and they were shit
>>64853365No, I bulk bought panasonic batteries from battery junction.
>>64852124>may try again tomorrowCode may not be valid on 36" or skill issue.Thx.>>64851930
>>64852527Worst case scenario dispute with gunjoker but that might take 30-60 days. They didn't describe the plates well, 2220-1s should have been listed separately.The difference between the 2220-1 and 2230, at least going off Safariland's press statements and spec sheets, is as great as the difference between Level III and IV. The 2220-1 is basic bitch IV while the 2230 is III / IV, has an UNEQUAL trauma pad, and a 600ft/s+ v0 advantage.
>>64847929Are side plates worth it for the average civilian?
>>64854338Look man, there's no amount of armor that's ever enough until you've got head to toe level IV, so anything you get is an improvement in coverage. And a detriment in weight. So, to know the answer to that question, you'd have to know how you think S is going to HTF, who you're going to be talking to, and where you're going to go, and what they're going to have you do. It's not like it's going to hurt to have around, but I think that as a general rule, armor plates are for raiding buildings from vehicles. They're too heavy for anything else and if you're assuming something that means the hospitals aren't going to take you (they may still operate, they just won't take YOU), armor as a whole is of dubious worth. Soft armor, on the other hand, doesn't weigh much, insulates, and you never know were a drone is going to be. But it may also be that in your city a riot breaks out with people armed with rifles involved while you're at work and you've still got to drive home and come back to work tomorrow, so in that case it can be justified enough assuming they don't just fire you on the spot for having a plate carrier and whatever ideology they presume is lurking in your brain because of that. There are backpacks that hold plates that'll help avoid that stigma, probably, but I haven't heard of any that hold side plates yet.
>>64854388This was a very reasonable and well thought out reply. Thank you.
HeyBasically I'm just not gonna take the /gq/s advice.I know.... UGH I know ..... I'm sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It's just that I'm not gonna WEAR 4SAS4 plates.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA ngl, i'm not sure why i even bother trying when I'm poor. They might as well shoot me and release me from this mortal coil.Anyways, I have the pure PE sportsmansguide plates, 4sas4 and an expired pasgt and hope to die in the first shootout I get into. Ive fallen for it too many times.
buff has a second archon plate,video (unlisted YouTube short) two m2ap, 2905 & 2921 fps, and two m995 3407 & 3454. stopped without note. plate failed on 1/2 xm1186, 5th shot, ~3" from m2ap hit, velocity not stated in the short (but probably 16"). stopped the other. looks like they are putting labels on the back now too.
>>64854486>looks like they are putting labels on the back now too.Finally. Is there a manufacturing location on it? Results sound good so far.>>64854444Protech 2014Gs from Hudsongunner.>>64854388>as a general rule, armor plates are for raiding buildings from vehiclesThis is a huge overgeneralization and depends on the level of armor. Plates can be sub-2lb Hesco 3801s or 8.3lb Gilliam 8002s and anything in between.
What are the end all be all jack of all trades pair of boots? I was thinking an ankle height trail runner. Some said the Salomon Speed Assault 2s
>>64854338Yes. Better to have and not need than need and not have, especially for an overt contingency setup.
>>64854388>armor plates are for raiding buildings from vehicles. They're too heavy for anything elseI don't know about that. I ran around in full kit for 3 hours before and it wasn't that bad. This includes 100 yards sprints and moving somewhat heavy shit in that time as well never taking the gear off. Could have done much more time.
>>64854967That or the Lowas hits the mark pretty well. I haven't owned a pair of Merrells but the Nova 3 seems to be in the same running. Mostly urban focus with decent capability for uneven offroad terrain.
>>64855185Roughly 36 lbs of gear not including gun, boots, or clothing.
>>64853356whats up with the shoot me im over here orange mags??
>>64855185Yeah I don't think his logic is good there. Are 2lb Hesco 3801s too heavy? Maybe heavyweight single curves like Gilliam 8002s, but those are contingency plates meant for especially nasty shit.>>64854486On further review, I'd still take ESAPI REV. J. Still a good showing though.
>>64855230he's retarded and doesn't know what a dump pouch is so he just drops them on the ground and has to go back and find themorange helps keep them visible
>>64855322based habsburg retard a2
New smslaser just dropped. Vis laser with white light. 110k candela. Who the fuck asked for this?https://smslaser.com/products/smslaser-axis
>>64855326why would you relate him to the retard family who's most prominent trait is their giant chins
>>64855343a2's chin was cut off >>64855336dedicated ARP wit schmeisser 60rnd detroit blaster fr fr
>>64853356Shekkin gears AVS and 3 band cummerbund. I did find a rep of the jpc side armor. Any idea if it fits the AVS?
>>64855197Which Lowas? They have a ton of variants for “duty” use which all seem fairly similar.
>>64854967go to a place that sells boots and try them on. Buy whatever you find most comfy. just keep in mind that boots are ultimately consumable and youll replace them after a few hundred miles.
crye lvs still the best soft armor vest?
>>64855313>I'd still take ESAPI REV. J.To be fair though, when was the last time a civilian plate came remotely close to military surplus in effectiveness and value?
>>64855960Given that there's probably thousands of people who can testify to the ESAPI's effectiveness and one (paid) dude with two plates for the Archon, they still aren't remotely close. Reliability > edge performance given how rare extra special black tip is. Sure, the Archon has more headroom on paper but you're still playing QC games. Archon was originally advertised to "reliably defeat" M993 at 2,950. It does not, so it's pressed into this awkward "IV but rare-ass tungsten 5.56 but definitely not tungsten 7.62!" role. The Buffman Special 6.25lb RMA 1192 competes decently well with it.It's doing well, so far, but Gilliam was able to sell a plate matching it on specs and BFD (but with drop test!) for $330 a plate until the price was raised suddenly to nearly match Archon, which is suspect given they share a strike face.
>>64855230Coming up on a decade of the "mags will get you shot" post guys, stay hyped.>>64855322>Training to stow emptiesDo you also train to catch your brass as it falls out?>>64855461>Repro postingSide armor pouches are not expensive, shiggity>3 band bundIf you arent trying to mount them to an avs harness the AVS and JPC bunds are almost identical so I dont see why that wouldnt fit.
>>64856030a2 I have secret intel that new thermals used by the FEDS can see your orange mags through walls
>>64856030>Do you also train to catch your brass as it falls out?>thinks mags are expendable lmao retard
>>64856033The fluorescent paint is filled with glass nanospheres to shift the emissivity so im good to go.>>64856046Yeah man, they very much are.
Why does airboss make the best looking masks?
>>64856046The entire town in which he resides is littered with nearly brand new pmags discarded after one range trip. Magpul actually stopped making pmags years ago, they just go collect them from A2Town.
>>64855523Zephyrs mid is the standard, Innox, Fortux. Here's a good website that reviews boots and talks about the Zephyrshttps://runrepeat.com/lowa-zephyr-gtx-mid>>64855864No way he can find a store that has all those boots to try one. Although boots like these are a consumable they will last a long time.
>Started sewing cosplay pieces for a convention.>First time using a sewing machine.>Now I'm getting ideas on making tactical gear.Anyone know of some free templates out there for me to get started on some simple pouches or similar gear?
>>64856081I dunno but if you make new versions of this I'll buy. People need more ammo.https://www.tactical-kit.co.uk/blackhawk-strike-akm4-triple-mag-pouch-holds-9-37cl05-1815-p.asp
Protech 2220-1 monkey model anon, any news from Precision Gunworks and their UNEQUAL gunjoker listing?
>>64856004Aside from that one article that was released before the plate itself, did they ever actually advertise M993? I feel it's easier to forgive a design goal that was not reached than actual false advertising.Pretty sure the Archon was dropped as well. At least in Buffman testing. The 1199 is undersized and with a more aggressive cut, probably close to a pound heavier if it were the same size.
>>64856831>did they ever actually advertise M993?It was two articles, technically. Also technically yes, because the Gilliam 9969 was also originally advertised for M995 / M993 and there are screencaps to prove that. The two plates share a strike face and are very similar in terms of overall design.Moreover, Adept said it would RELIABLY defeat M993 at 2,950ft/s. This means testing was done. Apparently not.I went off on this when the Archon was first teased because this was technically impossible given they were claiming performance better than reqs for VTP XSAPI, which not even Tencate can meet first article testing on.So it was classic armor company "walkback" advertising and for Gilliam stealth-editing. Highcum-tier behavior.>11991192, it was 6.25lb and IIRC actually did a pretty good job versus M993. Was it about 3,150ft/s stopped? Been a minute since I watched that one. Of course, 10oz heavier than advertised and 0.2" thicker, apparently the difference was all ceramic. The 1199 is either the shitty cheat ringed 4.4lb plate or a 4.9lb meh plate that didn't do so hot and got dropped.
>>64856882>>64856831Self-correction, 2,739ft/s on M993 (my bad!), followed by a Swiss P AP stop at 2,527. M993 pens the 1192 at 3,013 and again at 3,020. I was thinking of another plate re the 3,150. I compiled both tables together for reference purposes since this does provide an interesting comparison between SiC-TiB2 and B4C-SiC hybrid.Frankly the not-1192 (this is perhaps the most egregious "ringer" ever sent to Buff) does better than the Archon. Superior multi-hit (I mean shit, four M2AP stopped and the last two at over 3,200?), superior M2AP v50... and it's an RMA so everything I just said is basically bunk.The difference between the Archon and not-1192 is 0.45lb, but the 1192 was SAPI M so really it's a wash (add 0.2lb and then work the Archon up because it's not really 10x12 - it's slightly undersized). The 1192 was $1,200 a set. Archon $1,150. Adjust for inflation and the 1192 would probably be $1,400.Anyways, all of the above is irrelevant because the 1192 you could ACTUALLY BUY was 10oz lighter, 0.2" thinner, or 8oz after the stealth edit on their site. Ultimate point here is that Buff's not immune to chicanery (remember his claim the 4SAS4 stopped 6x BZ API in a Highcum report he couldn't show people because ITAR, but he literally dissected the 4SUS4 on live video?) and you really need to treat youtube evidence as C-tier, even his.
Got a response from Hesco on the 4520.>It’s hard to speak on anything that was sold by another company 12 years ago>sold>What I can say for sure is that if we did make that plate, it’s since been discontinued.The 4520 is kill, gentlemen. So there's also apparently a 4403LV and 4601LV that do the same thing as the 4403 / 4601 but just go over NIJ 44mm, a la 4800LV.
Do I get the armor destroying ps90 yay or nay. >armorIt’s on topic pls no bully
>>64857021What the hell, so even Hesco doesn't know anything about it?
>>64857541>armor destroying ps90> armor destroyingOnly with SS190 and only soft armor and helmets basically. Also maybe some all-poly plates.Nah it's not worth it.
>>64857567I’m down bad. What about 50 rounds of varmit exploder on unarmored targets?
>>64857541PS90 only pops most soft armor when used with appropriate ammo. If you use SS190 it'll clear very weak polyethylene plates like the "IIIA+" RMA 1003 but just barely. Can probably get through anything not good for 7.62x39 MSC, so the old 0101.03 Italian PEs, the ULWSAPI, some current Point Blank PE plates (top tier mfg my ass), and stuff like the Hesco P210. Hesco 3801LV is probably sketchy.>>64857567It's half the length of M855 basically. Not going to clear a whole lot.>>64857565No, this basically confirms it WAS a Hesco. This Zach Ball dude is using funny language if you look closely.1. He only said another company (ATT Tactical) sold it. He dodged saying who MADE this plate.2. Despite dodging #1, he somehow knows the 4520 is definitely discontinued. How the hell would he know if it wasn't a Hesco? Emphasis on "IF we DID make that plate."So there's an NDA or some other agreement in place (company confidentiality?) and he's gagged from actually answering in the affirmative. This is standard industry practice, even for old ass plates like this, and I'm impressed he even gave a response. Asked Highcom and Apex about the totally normal RCH and got nothing. Meanwhile you ask Hesco about a literal secret plate and they're like YEAH THE 4601 IS THE CLOSEST (how would he know the 4520 had a SiC strike face?) YOU CAN GET BUT YOU CAN'T BUY THAT PLATE ANYMORE.I think the next move is to try Mr. Reed himself.
>>64857578Maybe just get a rifle.
what gear does a need mans to shit on the vattlfirld?
>>64857541PS90 is sick as fuck if you leave it completely slick, maybe a dot recessed into carry handle. The second you put anything else on it the thing becomes xbox huge and unwieldy. Now with FRTs coming there is for sure more reason to own a P90>ArmorMaybe intermediate barrier performance instead??The thing is truly small. Like MP5 with collapsed stock size or krink sized while being much easier to stow in places.
>>64857616Those buffman vids have been a guilty pleasure. >>64857656Valid. Actually fell my way into an xm16 build, so one more to add to the pile. >>64859089All in the ammo. Some selections seem to be an interesting choice when there are overpen concerns. I’m actually considering replacing my not-a-mp5k with one. Less finicky. Granted I have not upgraded my extractor spring and it does NOT like 115’s at all. Even some 124’s too. Surely a casket mag will be better /s. A p90 with a visible laser would be fine. Retarded, but fine.
>>64859138>A p90 with a visible laser would be fine. Retarded, but fine.Based, make it an LA-12 GLIS and dazzle your enemies while you magdump them.
>>64857616>This Zach Ball dude is using funny language if you look closely.Maybe? Or maybe he just doesn't know? He could have recommended the 4600 as just equivalent based on weight or something like that? I think that you need to keep pushing for answers.
>>64859138>All in the ammoOf course, I think its fairly captured in the image in which they talk about 1-5 round NSR vs 15-20 round sprays in auto. These people are very unhappy from being shot with 5.7 but theres not enough kinetic feedback for officers to lay off the trigger. >Replace my mp5kI mean mp5k generally sucks so thats a fair choice
>>64856285https://www.omahas.com/shop/ak-ar-triple-mag-pouch-ma33/Here ya go.
>>64851644muh $30 bag came in
>>64860417Looks pretty good to me. How do you feel about it?
Does anyone have experience using a HSA to buy ComTacs?I started an HSA last year specifically to buy a pair, Reddit says EnviroSafety accepts HSA debit cards directly and you don't need a letter or to request reimbursement.Don't tell me to buy AMPs I already have a pair.
>>64860489Its not bad I probably should have gotten the smaller one though
>>64859543Only if it’s vis green. I got a thing for green lasers and dots.>>64860056Yeah, that’s the slippery slope when it comes to these things. Is it better than an 11.5”? Not even close. There’s the winner. What I am curious about is that niche it sits in comparison to 9mm subguns. Could be velocity fetishism. I’d like to see more development behind the round, but we’re probably just talking vaporware at this point.>mp5kYeah it sucks. It’s a vibe, but it sucks. My hope is that the extractor spring and some decent 124’s fix it. I could be assed to do the roller work, but it would almost be easier to trade it at that point.
>>64860745>Only if it’s vis green. I got a thing for green lasers and dots.Of course. 200mW dispersed green dot. The low is 5mW allegedly but mine is damn bright. Highly advised you wear fully enclosed laser eyepro. Pulsating modes are free lasik disco party.Using a dazzler for CQB work is... not the intended use but going off of what DocGKR said in A2's post, could compensate for having to drill people.If the other baddies can't see, they can't accurately engage you. Also dazzlers of this caliber can fry NV and digital cameras. They can blind with a reflection. Even the beam is dangerous.
>>64860793Now we just need to get it powerful enough to instantly ignite things in contact.>dangerousEverything is dangerous when the p90 is involved.
>>64859579Possibly. The quest for XSAPI protection at ESAPI weight continues.
>>64860802There are ebay lasers in the 5W+ range that can ignite paper on contact. Zip tie one of them to a P90. Badabing. Hypothetical drone-lens / flock camera fryer with 5.7mm characteristics.
>>648608118lbs with external car battery. What a fantastic weapon.
>>64860822>he doesn't know about the alibaba pulsed laser rifles in the hundred watt range.
>>64860837Shit. We need laser rated plates now. Somebody call hesco.
>>64860883>In the year 2077, what makes my Hesco 4806s Level V?1.5MW disco laser also known as SMS Fuckyoubitch, successor to the HFXC mark IV.
Botach sold out on the expired / possibly recalled Hesco 4600s.https://surplus.botach.com/hesco-model-4600-lvl-iv-plates-set-of-2-police-trade/I think the anon that was supposed to test these is doing time or something.
>>64860743Can you return and exchange it for the smaller one? Id do that.
>>64861142Yeah he can, see >>64851741. Amazon has an UNEQUAL a-z customer service policy.
>>64861142probably but thats too much effort its not that big of a deal
I'm new and retarded, so bear with me. What's a good babby's first setup for stuff like chest rigs and lbes? Is an Alice OK?
>>64861296Space is a premium to me. You have to store it take it to your car and take it to the range. I keep my bags tight as possible. As you get more guns and gear its a a lot of shit. >>64861304What kind of money do you have? Alice is not okay.
>>64861304>Is an Alice OK?yes. but at this point in time you'll probably get more bang for your buck with an FLC or TAPs rig.
>>64861307Money is whatever, as long as it isn't temu shit and it will last.>>64861310I got a boomer friend who insists Alice is the best, but eh.
>>64861318>I got a boomer friend who insists Alice is the bestyeah, sound about right. it doesn't play well with some more modern gear, but you can make it work. if I take my rose-tinted glasses off, the FLC is better for most things. ALICE is a vibe though.
Got a few dumb questions, I'm new to this. Anyways I know this is all hypothetical since the chances of ever needing armor is pretty much 01. Do I *need* level 4?2. would it be better to have more cheaper plates or few expensive? (i'd like some for my family as well as me, 3 women so lighter would be better)3. is the Hesco 3810 worth getting over the 3612?4. what sites are safe to buy from, is Trex still gtg? I've heard they've had issues but that was a while ago
>>64861336+1 flc. I need another one to hold p90 mags now.
>>64847951Tubes, but worse in every way?
>>648613511. Why wouldn’t you? If you envision a scenario in which you may get shot at, you should maximize your protection. Yes there are nuances and this a simplification but it still rings true.2. Are you preparing for Waco 2.0? I wouldn’t bother. >2&3 I’ll let the autism flow for these last two.
>>64861351>be any of your 3 foid relatives>"anon this vest is too heavy">"my shoulders hurt">"can we stop? we've been walking for a whole mile my feet hurt"If you were actually in some kind of SHTF scenario the only logical move would be to immediately shoot your whole family and survive on your own.
>>64861351All good questions.1. This is entirely situational, but it's better to have more than you realistically need. One more vote in favor of Level IV, also because as discussed last thread, there's a lot of especially nasty hybrid case threats on the horizon and you need headroom a III+ cannot provide. Do you want to replace your plates in five years because something nasty goes mainstream? You probably don't.2. Buy once cry once unless there are more important things for your money. Frankly, you can get huge deals buying used armor in good condition. Load your entire family up on ESAPIs and cheap IIIA from ebay, tacswap, gunbroker, armslist. Just check condition. Do not favor pure low weight over protection, you'll just turn into that dude in the other thread who's assmad his 8x10 poly plates can't stop M855. No fun amigo.3. The 3810 is a little more stout, boasting .30-06 JSP protection under 44mm BFD. The 3612C is lighter by a hair but going off Hesco's charts has a weaker backer. I vote neither, LTC 19513 is preferable because it stops M855A1 reliably and is only a pound or so heavier.4. Trex is good. Sierra is also good. Offbase too. Only guys with reoccurring issues lately are Midwest because they're behind and Apex because they're a clown show. I have to double down on ESAPIs unless you need special requirements like M2AP at extreme speed or rare tungsten protection. ESAPIs all exceed Level IV spec when backed by soft armor. REV. G and up ESAPIs are triple M2AP / M995 tanks, and at only 5.45lb SAPI M, damn light. I use Protech 2230s because I foresee hybrid case threats being a huge issue and M2AP protection at 3,500ft/s+ is a solid overkill for M855A1 at 3,450.
>>64861404If they're that out of shape the vest isn't gonna make or break it. It'll just be one more pile of rocks in the bed of a truck with four flat tires.The women need a gym membership and they need to hit the stairmaster. Fitness is king.>>64861384Agreed. Nuances indeed, but as said in >>64861461 we live in interesting times and new threats are on the horizon. I wouldn't be too happy with 3810s that only stop M855A1 irregularly out of a short barrel when turbocharged 3,450ft/s M855A1 is entering the field.I actually wouldn't be too happy with spending $2.2k on PBZSAs either or other featherweight M80 + M855A1 plates given how badly they'll lose to normal M995, let alone SIG HYP or NAS3 vrooom vroom versions going 3,800ft/s.
>>64861318https://www.velsyst.com/collections/chest-rigshttps://haleystrategic.com/shop/categories/https://www.beezcombatsystems.com/collections/ar-chest-rigshttps://wisemencompany.com/hx-hybrid-harness/chestrigs>>64861336I would only get level IV and more but cheaper plates only if you think the people you give them to can do anything useful with them on. Just make sure they have good drop protection. I wouldn't feel bad spending more on my own plates and going cheaper for the pass around plates.
Anyone here have personal experience with the Adept Colossus? Would like some anecdotal reviews. Thinking about getting the 10x12 size, what good carriers can take it? Looked through the infographs and saw that a Velocity Systems carrier could take em but I'd like some more choices, unless that's perfectly fine. I don't have experience with carriers anyways so I'm not sure how they'd even differ one way or another
>>64861473>good drop protectionCount anything recent from RMA out. Avoid the RMA XRT, it's being pushed HARD as a generalist cheapo plate. for exact situations like these. Rule of thumb is that you need $420 in the pot for a basic set of new, reputable plates. Anything below that gets increasingly sketch the further down you go. Absolute "hard floor" is $200/set with those Chinese Level IV TitanXP plates tacticalshit (fuck those clowns) is selling. They're bottom barrel but the specs check out.
>>64861490Any carrier which can take a nominal 10x12 at about 1.2" thick can take them, which is most overt carriers. You only run into thickness issues when you get into 1.35" or so and thicker plates.Are there particular reasons you're drawn to the Colosussy?
>Thinking about just rocking green BDUs and a lvl2 soft vest under a chest rig
>>64861496Price, weight, and protection. I'm also considering the Hesco 4800 but that's far more expensive for a pair, and I'm guessing slightly less protection since >>64847954 rates it at IV while the Adept is IV+
>>64861509The 4800 is barely Level IV, and even that's uncertain. It's quite controversial around these parts. It had an absolutely terrible performance with Buffman, where it literally failed on the first shot vs. M2AP.Practically speaking, it'll cover all realistic CONUS threats, but with very little headroom.
>>64861376Okay, so how about Tactik buckles? They seem like tubes but with a better QR?
>>64861509The issue with Adept is reliability. You dob't know where the plates are made, how quality control is, actual material sourcing for the plates. They have zero certified products and no legit US business address. You'll note that barely anyone actually runs Adept plates. I don't know any professional users that actually use Adept gear and weren't just evaluating or submitted an RFI at some point.The Colossus is however far more protective than the 4800. >>64861779With the caveat it failed after a drop test. It's fine if you treat it like an 0101.04 plate and never drop.
>>64861844> Reliability> 4800Yeah I don't know bro.> It's fine if you treat it like an 0101.04 plate and never drop.That's far from clear. If one drop test can COMPLETELY fuck its shit up, I'd say it might not be "fine"
>>64861848If we use Buffman again, the ICW IIIA no foam 4800LV puts on a solid performance without required soft armor.>one drop testA drop test that RMA veto'd or modified twice because they like special treatment and one that totally FUBARs the 0101.04 4SAS4. It's not easy.Like before, the featherweight IVs all have this issue. LTC 26310, 4800, Protech 9812-R1. Only one that apparently doesn't is the Tencate CXP-800 SA.
>>64861855> If we use Buffman again, the ICW IIIA no foam 4800LV puts on a solid performance without required soft armor.Yeah, but we're talking "reliability". How much would you want to bet on it performing well? The 4800 just seems like a "roll the dice, take your chances" plate.> Only one that apparently doesn't is the Tencate CXP-800 SAIsn't the Archon basically the same weight? It seems to also handle drops just fine. SAPIs and ESAPIs, too.
>>64861862>How much would you want to bet on it performing well?Decently, since the FBI uses it. They wouldn't accept trash and IIRC actually turned down the on-paper superior 4520 in favor of the LTC 28601.The 4SUS4 was killed by three things, its own lack of drop foam, shitty packaging, no quality control. >ArchonIt's 5.8lb for a lightly undersized 10x12 and is realistically just over 6lb if you correct sizing. It's a pound heavier than the honest 10x12 4800.>also seems to handle dropsSure skipped the drop in the actual lab report.>SAPIsway below IV. They aren't even rated for 7.62x54 LPS without standoff.>ESAPIsNeed soft armor and are also realistically just over 6lb with soft.
>>64861779>>64861844Oh, shit. Well then. Any recommendations out of the plates on that list? If I'm not toally retarded, the Rev XSAPI plates, Ceradyne, and Hesco 4520 plates are all military contract stuff and thus essentially impossible for civilians to buy. I did see a website selling Rev G plates but I remember getting into a conversation with someone on Twitter about those and they convinced me not to buy them. Forget what was said exactly, but maybe something about the weight since you need to wear backers eith it
>>64862062>Hesco 4520 platesThey don't exist, and it's not clear that they ever really existed, at least in the form they've been advertised in.>>64861900Keep in mind the 4800 is actually over 5 pounds. The one Buffman tested was 5.16 pounds, and Buffman didn't measure it, so we don't know if it's 0.1" short or whatever. Still performed like total dogshit. You're getting a plate that's maybe half a pound lighter than the CXP-800 SA or Archon, but you give up a LOT of durability and performance. And it also costs more. Seems like a retarded trade. And what happened to the 4801 anyway?Muh FBI aren't exactly geniuses, BTW. They still use steel plates.
Any suggestions for a level 3 trauma plate 7x9" for putting in soft armor vests?
>>64862062>I did see a website selling Rev G plates but I remember getting into a conversation with someone on Twitter about those and they convinced me not to buy them. Forget what was said exactly, but maybe something about the weight since you need to wear backers eith itYou were given bad advice. Assuming you wear a SAPI M that's 5.45lb for the plate, 0.8lb for a IIIA backer that is actually stronger than what the ESAPI requires, so it'll enhance performance somewhat. You're at 6.25lb or whereabouts, less than a Hesco 4601 and you get a far more stout solution.>Any recommendations out of the plates on that list?Protech 2230, ESAPIs, Hesco 4601 if you want an NIJ cert reasonably decent midweight IV. The Level IV market kinda sucks and is hourglass shaped. Mid-range options are few. I'd stay away from Militech. >If I'm not toally retarded, the Rev XSAPI plates, Ceradyne, and Hesco 4520 plates are all military contract stuff and thus essentially impossible4520 exists but is unobtanium. XSAPIs can be acquired second hand without too much difficulty. One pound heavier than ESAPI for SAPI M for REV. A or B, only 0.55lb heavier than ESAPI for XSAPI C, not counting backers. Triple M993 at 3,050 is excellent protection.Esoteric Ceradynes like the MH3 CQB, 96034, and SOF ESAPI II-B are still extremely good but impossible to get, yes. There is one guy with a pair of 96034s. Less than 150 or so were ever made.Final list for consideration:Protech 2230 for budget IV.Hesco 4601 for mid IV with the caveat it underperforms a good ESAPI, but you don't have to play used plate games.ESAPI midweight, later REV the better.XSAPI is contingency.If you can lose drop pro and need minimum weight, the 4800 is solid (in terms of ballistics) but underperforms the heavier Protech 9812-R1 at least for multi-hit purposes.
>>64862202>4520Definitely existed, but for whatever reason wasn't successful.>4800It's 5.1lb SAPI M, or 4.9lb 10x12 with some variance. Hesco plates so far are consistently 10x12 when they say 10x12.>dogshitWe've gone over this before. It was dropped, the drop foam sucks, it was compromised. 4800LV did great for a 4.7lb 10x12 despite lacking soft armor.>CXP-800 SAGotta bust your ass to get that without credentials.>ArchonIt would be just over 6lb if SAPI M. Keep in mind Adept's 10x12s are a little smaller than 10x12, then SAPI M is somewhat heavier than usual 10x12.The difference between a 4800 and an Archon is nearly the difference in weight between a 4601 and 4403.>4801It sucked chief.>FBIA steel-PE hybrid plate that stops common threats with extremely tight shot spacing, including M193 and M855. This style of plate is old hat but it enjoys serious praise from guys like DocGKR with the similar AMI TAC3S.
Has anyone heard of a site called Catalyst Surplus? They seemingly have a good selection of stuff but I can find 0 reviews. Found a post on reddit by their account that's basically just "trust me bro"
>>64862513> 4520 exists but is unobtaniumExisted, past tense, and even that's a "maybe". > If you can lose drop pro and need minimum weight, the 4800 is solid (in terms of ballistics) lol, lmao. American Blast Systems is also solid. If a little drop completely BTFOs your plate, it's a bad plate. See 4SAS4.>>64862572> It's 5.1lb SAPI M, or 4.9lb 10x12 with some variance.Weird, the ones Buffman tested were both well over 5.1 pounds. Also his 4800LV was heavier than what's on the specsheet, 5.7 vs. 5.6 pounds, and MUCH thicker, nearly 0.73" vs. 0.65".Aren't you the one who usually calls this out?> The difference between a 4800 and an Archon is nearly the difference in weight between a 4601 and 4403.If we take the 10x12" versions, the 4601 is 6.4 pounds and the 4403 is 7.7 pounds. That's a 1.3 pound difference. The difference between the 4800 and the Archon is anywhere from 0.6 to 0.8 pounds, depending on if and how you scale plate sizes, but it's definitely not 1.0 pounds or even close. > A steel-PE hybrid plate No.https://hardwirellc.com/blogs/newsroom/hardwire-llc-awarded-rifle-resistant-steel-plate-and-spall-protection-contract-by-the-department-of-justice-federal-bureau-of-investigationIt's a regular steel plate with what looks like a very light UHMWPE wrap. It's obviously not 1" thick like the TAC3S.
>>64862615They have good armor but are kinda like Apex and highball ratings. Those LTC 28540s for example are not Level IV. They're B-32 API rated sides meant to pair with the LTC 28595 and 28570.
>>64862630>4520Definitely existed, even if just a small sample. There's a picture of it in the Hesco infograph.>American Blast2" cheat ring on that one chief. The 4800 is actually, you know, edge to edge.>If a little drop completely BTFOs your plate,Weighted double drop on a pendulum is not the same as a little drop. This isn't like the RMA 1165 or 4SUS4 where the mailman can apparently kill it.Keep in mind drop foam wasn't really required until 2008 under NIJ. People got by fine without it for decades. Sucks to not have it, but you can skirt it and get away. Just make sure the plates are packaged well.>Weird, the ones Buffman tested were both well over 5.1 pounds.0.06lb is tiny variance. Were they not SAPI M?>Also his 4800LV was heavier than what's on the specsheet, 5.7 vs. 5.6 poundsTenth of a pound isn't bad variance either.>nearly 0.73" vs. 0.65"There's more than one iteration of 4800LV. No-foam soft-ICW and an actual ICW version, going off back labels and spec sheet materials.>Aren't you the one who usually calls this out?Dawg I called that out six months ago.>Plate sizing4800 is 4.9lb for a 10x12, if you scale the Archon so it's truly 10x12 it is 6lb, 6.2lb if SAPI M. 1.1lb is close to 1.3lb. We're splitting 0.2lb here.>Steel-hybrid plateNope. https://hardwirellc.com/products/rifle-resistant-steel-body-armor-plate?>Dyneema and steel construction with a durable Nylon wrap.
oh fuck here we go again lemme get my lvl 4 fidget spinner
>>64862689>Nope. https://hardwirellc.com/products/rifle-resistant-steel-body-armor-plate?Look at the FBI's pictures at the link I posted previously. That's a steel plate with, at best, a light UHMWPE wrap for spall mitigation. It's not a 1" thick TAC3S type plate. > Weighted double drop on a pendulum is not the same as a little drop. This isn't like the RMA 1165 or 4SUS4 where the mailman can apparently kill it.How would you know that? The plate got totally wrecked by one drop, same as the others. > There's more than one iteration of 4800LV.Or maybe they're just changing specs randomly? Anyway, the one that looks like it performed well is not obviously what they're selling today. Same name, possibly different plate.
>>64862727>Look at the FBI's pictures at the link I posted previously.I love press release photos. The plate doesn't actually have FBI printed on it going off of the manufacturer's actual site.>That's a steel plate with, at best, a light UHMWPE wrap for spall mitigation. Nylon wrap going off what the manufacturer said it is. PE backer.>It's not a 1" thick TAC3S type plate.It's probably more like the thinner TAC3S LT or TAC3SM. These were lighter models that dropped weird threats like .338 Lapua match ammo and 5.56 Le Mas Urban Warfare aka 35gr varmint projos at 3,700ft/s.>How would you know that?Because Buff's test is meant to simulate NIJ 0101.06 and does so sufficiently to make no-foam plates flop and .06 spec plates succeed? It's a lot harder than dropping the plate on carpet.>The plate got totally wrecked by one drop, same as the others.It failed to stop one round of .30-06 M2AP that was just barely over spec, then stopped a whole host of rounds. The 4SAS4 failed four M2AP back to back to back to back. Huge difference.>Or maybe they're just changing specs randomlyNo, it's a non-CPL plate made to specific requirements. Some like it one way, another like it another way. I agree it's odd to call both the same model but it's a non-CPL plate so it doesn't play by NIJ rules.>Anyway, the one that looks like it performed well is not obviously what they're selling today. Same name, possibly different plate.The 4800LV has been discontinued for nearly a year now.
What boots do you lads like? Looking for something to hike in when it’s too wet and cold for trail runners
>>64862824>No, it's a non-CPL plate made to specific requirements. Some like it one way, another like it another way. I agree it's odd to call both the same modelSo there are a bunch of different 4800LV variants and nobody knows which is which?Looks like there's an arfcom thread that mentions this, too: https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Medium-SAPI-Level-4-Wanted/10-507501/It's pretty fucked up, if so. I don't think you can claim "the 4800LV performed well" as proof of anything desu, because who the fuck knows what "4800LV" even refers to.> Nylon wrap going off what the manufacturer said it is. PE backer.Do you have any proof of this? It could have a surface PE layer, like those aramid spall pouches, to catch bullet fragments. And that's actually what it looks like.> It failed to stop one round of .30-06 M2AP that was just barely over specFailed on the very first shot. Ouch. That's about as bad a performance as any Level IV plate has ever turned in, aside from the totally fucked Highscum 4SUS4.
>>64861373>hold p90 mags now
>>64863209The surp pop-up flare pouches are more expensive than you'd think. This carrier could pack a few more, ammo mule style.
>>64863222>This carrierNext best might be airsofff.
>>64863171>4800LV variantsCorrect. There's at least two. One is the SRT version Hesco marketed which is down on drop foam and is thinned so it stops M2AP but runs over 44mm BFD. Another is a no-foam ICW IIIA version that does actually need soft armor behind it, but will make IV when backed appropriately.>It's pretty fucked upNo not really, it's typical for a non-CPL plate to get revised all the time. Buff clearly tested the earlier "SRT" type 4800LV. There are three models claiming to be the Adept Colossus for another example. Like six iterations of Gilliam 9969, three Gillie 8002, three RMA 1192s, two 1155s and 1165s, technically two versions of Hesco L110 side plate. I could go on. If you want to get very esoteric the old Hesco 1520 ALAP (poorfag PBZSA) had two versions as well.The fundamental problem with non-CPL plates is that their specs can change with a word and you'll never know.>I don't think you can claim "the 4800LV performed well" as proof of anything desu, because who the fuck knows what "4800LV" even refers to.This goes for every non-CPL plate Buff has tested, per above. The SRT 4800LV did well, I dunno 'bout the ICW version.>Do you have any proof of this? It could have a surface PE layer, like those aramid spall pouches, to catch bullet fragments. And that's actually what it looks like.Nope, but it's rated for M193 and M855 without qualification and dyneema-backed steel is the only reliable way for a steel plate to pull that. It could have both a PE backer and PE fragmentation face.>Failed on the very first shot.Any pre-2008 NIJ plate is liable to bomb M2AP after a replica .06 drop test. Have people been dying from drop compromised plates from 1971-2007?I guarantee if Buff redid the 4800 test and skipped the drop it would have put on an excellent show for its weight, but that's history.
Also as a summary re the above talk about the 4800LV, it should be assumed that all 4800LVs are the ICW variant and require good IIIA to stop M2AP.
>>64862328Welcome back from 2005. You'll need to buy second hand Protech / Safariland or Point Blank.
>>64863513It's for retro LARP, I'm not taking it too seriously. What about the 7x9" shellback carries?
Just scored some Invisio T5 for $200, but just the headset themselves, didn't came with the V50/V60 PTT. Did I do good?
>>64863614I mean it's an option but I'm not seeing APEX or APEX GT on the NIJ CPL unless I'm blind or they're fronting, AR500-style, different model numbers.The specs seem to check out nonetheless.
>>64863894Looks like the Apex is listed under its SKU ULW3ICW
>>64863921Nice, thanks. So 2.3lb / 0.46" thick all-PE. ICW whatever specific IIIA. I'd veto because it fails M855 and it's going to fail M855 pretty bad with those numbers. With ICW plates like this you cannot cheapo the soft armor. Must meet or exceed whatever it was certed with.I am kinda liking that Apex GT.
>>64848265>tollythat first guy is literally a jeet named tolly, not even memeing
>>64863931I am too but fuck me, $600 for one tiny ass 7x9 plate is a lot to swallow for a meme
>>64863991Tolly's a little bitch who thinks he can buy low sell high on military laser dazzlers that fell off a truck.>>64864210Off to ebay for a Protech IMPAC-RT you go!
>>64863209>>64863222>>64863229Bless. A T85 Chicom *might* work too. I suspect those basic m4 doubles might work too. Maybe some height mods but nothing major. I’m nearly at the point of saying fuck it and clicking order. Too many projects for the trash sniper. Obligatory go birds.
>>64861304ALICE is great, highly recommend :)
>>64861304Thinking about ALICE Y suspenders on an Irwin or Colbalt tier tool belt. Rigging this work belt /pfg/ style.>ALICE/Dewalt/MOLLE
what's the modern equivalent of a chicom rig? I don't need a shit ton of stuff, just pouches to carry mags, and then also for it to be a little low profile
>>64864634>loproA hand bag from Goodwill.
First one that really peaked my interest.https://m.made-in-china.com/product/World-First-5g-16-Antennas-All-in-One-Full-Bands-Cell-Phone-Signal-Jammer-Blocking-RF-Signal-5g-3400-3600-Remote-Control-GPS-WiFi-GSM-920748805.htmlExternal amps for specific frequencies can be had for cheap from Qorvo. And yes, dip switches still suck.
>>64864634in terms of both cost and layout, helikon chicom, blackhawk commando or condor 7-pocket, though if you want a direct modernization then a couple of hipster brands like parashooter make copies.
>>64864772>blackhawk commando>$165How is this better than a TAP or Ronin?
>>64864772that condor actually looks pretty good, thanks
>>64864746Signal jammers are CRINGE and nobody should be using them. Please ignore the fact that shitloads of cartel motherfuckers are breaking into houses using them because everyone is dumb of ass and relies on wireless Ring cameras with their backup being CALLING THE COPS from an easily-jammed cell phone.Cringe!
>>64864746>Another episode of anon blasts a blistering 0.7W on a channelSnap to it anon, focus on fewer bands at much higher power.>>64864634DPM North ireland chest rig>>64863709You did okay, now get raped buying the PTT>>64863222>Yeah I need webbing so I can distribute the load>P90Wtf are you doing anon
>>64848383Something else to add to the list. RMA randomly upped the weight on the now-discontinued 1092 G2 plate, rated for 2x M855A1 or 3x 7.62x51mm M80, from 5.3lb to 5.6lb.
>>64865324>wtf are you doing anonWhatever I please. I don’t even have armor. I crave the yellow cake.
>>64865335You deny the great caesar his question desu. Answer me you shitnugget. p90 load distribution is fake fuck.
>>64865323>Please ignore the factDone.>>64865324>fewer bands at much higher power.The bands are selectable, but yes. Protip: Qorvo.
>>64865324>Wtf are you doing anonDon't ask questions.
>>64865351Do you have a line on these Qorvo amps or am I going to have to use our... African connections to get them?
>>64865351>The bands are selectableIts not like switching off band #1 gives more power to bands #2-8 anon.That specific jammer doesnt effect 5G low or high bands in the usa, doesnt hit all 4g bands and fails on several secondary GNSS bands.>Muh external amps muddafukkaAt that point you should be building the whole unit from scratch.
>>64865345>p90 load distribution is fakeBack to mags in a handbag.>>64864737
>>64865359>Its not like switching off band #1 gives more power to bands #2-8 anon.It could very much be like that, I have not bench tested it.
>>64865359You can get the jammers specced for any frequency band. Granted the power output is unacceptable unless you're like pic related cartel soldatos and are literally funky towning people and are worried they are calling the cops using a cell phone up their pooper.
>>64865363>It could very much be like thatAnon, it isnt.Fundamentally all of these devices are a noise source piped to an RF front end. RF frontend is one of two things; recycled off the shelf or purpose built GaN amps.In the case of low power devices like this one its a series of off the shelf RF amp components used to kick up that noise generator and feed it to an RF. The chipsets in these are unique to the specific band. Their power output is limited by the off the shelf chipsets, not the total supplied power.Purpose built GaN amplifiers are the wee little silver bricks you feed 12-24v dc and generally have a pair of SMA jacks on either end. They require a base input around 1W to reach their rated power output so most of the time you will be 20-30% under the rated power.>>64865368>Bro cartels!>look at these guys!Dawg these "people" are retards. Hence the predator packs for their 249 and fucking hard elbow pads. They arent exactly RF engineers, they are buying what looks cool because they want to scare the other thirdworlders in their shithole.
>>64865393>Dawg these "people" are retardsYeah no shit, they're trying to pull a Jin-Roh but left all the armor at home.
>>64865393>Their power output is limitedWe can work with that.
>>64865368Five monopoly dollars says these three dudes already got their tickets punched by a fat middle-aged man with a really shitty 1950s rifle from Sears. And then said middle aged man looted their bodies and sold the M249s to pay off a massive gambling debt from over the border at a casino on the Rez.
>>64865408Are you a cartel soldato who is going to funky town local yokels and need to ensure the nokia up their pooper is jammed?
>>64865408Nah. Radiating with such a short effective range going to get you smoked. You're better off with a more powerful tool to trip breaker boxes and blackout the whole building before hitting it under nods.
>>64865345Ave, true to Caesar. How else are you to carry your mags? Stuff them into socks? I need chest feee to crawl through the sewers and infiltrate the place where all the yellow cake is. The p90 is just icing for the cake.
>>64865455You mean a piece of wire held by lineman's pliers direct into outside outlet?I suggest just using a flamethrower on the subghetto crack castle and force the fight outside.
I need flamethrower rated plates immediately
>>64865480>You mean a piece of wire held by lineman's pliers direct into outside outlet?Naw, blow the breakers using RF interference. Go set your baofeng around 460mhz and wave it around your GFCI in your bathroom while holding down the transmit button. Will flip the GFCI due to RF energy being read by the GFCI as a short. You can do some similar stuff to cause some AC switching power supplies to burst into flames. Theres a lot more you can do as well with standard breakers but /gq/ doesnt have an infographic for that.>>64865483Bingo quick 20000 posts about RMA adhesives failing at heat
>>64865493<You can do some similar stuff to cause some AC switching power supplies to burst into flames.Finally, a use for my UV-25D.>Theres a lot more you can do as well with standard breakers but /gq/ doesnt have an infographic for that.Gimme an info dump like you did for the breaching tools brah.>Bingo quick 20000 posts about RMA adhesives failing at heatRMA aktshaully (aktshaully, fr fr) never had any issues with adhesive. That's more of a TAP, Dragonskin, and Ceradyne problem. Flamethrowers for beating armor is however based. Proven Stalingrad performer. Dead nuts. No cap.
a2 is federal agent
>>64865429That would be in violation of FCC Part 14.>>64865455Why are you such an asocial deviant?
>>64865629FCC has no enforcement power. Local yokels blasting 5KW amplifiers on CB super bowl WORLDWIDE.
>>64865643>enforcement =/= legal Do the right thing in life and go to heaven.
>>64865673Cringe "obey the law" thinker.
Catalyst has some more VTP ESAPIs in stock. These are 5lb for a size medium and retain REV. G and up capabilities, but BFD limit is raised to about 62mm (ouch). They still need soft armor contrary to the listing.https://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/gen-iii-s-esapihttps://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/level-iv-tencate-gen-iii-s-esapi-ballistic-armor-plate-multi-curve
>>64865686Cringe "dies in eternal torment" dude.
>>64865694Do you think the FCC follows God?
The FCC does follow the Lord.>I am the LORD your God; you shall not have strange gods before me.>You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.>Remember to keep holy the LORD’s Day.>Honor your father and mother.>You shall not kill.>You shall not commit adultery. >You shall not steal.>You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.>You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.>You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.The FCC follows all of the above. Therefore signal jammers are the work of the devil and A2 needs to go to church. If he does not, the consequences will indeed be... Unequal.
>>64865691>micromachines sizing onlyYou gotta check first >>64865574>Gimme an info dumpnah you can figure it out from posts ITT
>>64865736Listen brah there's a guy here who found out the medium-hard way his 8x10 Hesco 3800s can't handle the streets. I'm trying to help a brother out.
In other, UNEQUAL news, they have a turbo trauma pad allegedly good for absorbing BABT from a ".50 caliber weapon" but if you want it fuck you.https://unequal.com/military/?
>>64865764It's not for BABT, it's a recoil pad. I wouldn't wear it, lol
>>64865994This is some fallout apocalypse shit.
>>64865698Does God follow th FCC, is the question.
Fuck, now I want an UNEQUAL JAMMER.
>>64865994Son of bitch, you're right. But hey, the technology is fundamentally the same.I'd like to see an UNEQUAL CAP panel. Get Rusanon in here we got something cooking. Could be whipping out Level IV plates with zero BFD over here.>>64866011Due to the rising issue of the Brothahood of Steel, yo, and their AR500 power armor on the streets of detroit, the police are now issued short barrel patrol M82s and are using them to handle heavily armored ruffians at traffic stops.>>64866038He has the secret license level above Amateur Extra. Admiral.>>64866064UNEQUAL backpack jammer uses UNEQUAL FORCEFIELD to stop you from frying your unequal scrotum qqqwith 500 watts of fury.
>>64866115>AdmiralDoesn't get any higher until double double secret>frying your unequal scrotum.My RF Exposure Hazard training gives me immunity to a [classified] wattage.
>>64866185That's very UNEQVAL. I am now going to harass Safariland customer service to find out the TRVTH behind the Protech 2240, the secret successor to the 2230 that MOGS THE FVCK out of the Hesco 4403. That is the only way to make things EQVAL in this world.
>>64866243Some pigs are more EQUAL than others. George Orwell,
>>64866250But only the PIGS get ACCESS to these plates, making things UNEQUAL!
lol all the places selling signal jammers are shady as fuck
>>64866315Build your ownIf you can install a car stereo you can build a jammer
>>64866353>the optimism of naivete
>>64866353I can't install a car stereo
>>64866393You better get to learning
>>64866405fake a2
>>64866405That some sort of ghetto low pressure-high pressure system using a 12g shell for propelling diy shells? Pretty neat if so, got any links where that can be read up on? I've seen similar with 40mm builds but nothing that large
>>64866416I too would like the construction instructions to homebrew the King of Battle.
>>64866412Somehow biffed my tripAuthenticated>>64866416>>64866426Working on 3D printed mortar shells for existing systems. Have an effective PD superquick and delay fuze. prox is still being ironed out.
>>64866469Based. Publish infographic when complete. The LARPers of the internet will hold you in their highest respect.
/gq/ this is probably a weird question, but what music do you listen to?
>>64866469>Delay PDOh rearry now? And it's got a 40mm screw on nose version?
>>64866811I havent put as much time into that as I have on the 81mm, the 37mm/40mm variant will come when this project is finished. The strike 320 launcher will be BIG if true>>64866494TOOB
>>64866862Toob infographic!?!?!
>>64866862>strike 320 launcherBet you a crisp fiver it's an MS Paint interpretation or turkish
>>64866941Allegedly taiwanese + american partsSo we can assume its bog standard strike quality (middle of the road) assuming they dont put red anodized parts on it.
>>64866967Red anodized are the less lethal models kek
Ideas for the next thread image?
I have an old estac Daeodon (not the UNI) that I never put plates into. Does anyone know why the newer version isn't in the pastebin? My old version is showing age with (almost) no padding, no venting/mesh material, and tons of molle.
>>64867353Sounds almost ideal. Padding and mesh are difficult to implement. Mesh is usually quite a bad/stupid thing to put on a carrier that you expect to ever use someday. Too much padding, like in Agilite carriers, makes them retain too much heat and sweat.
>>64866862>I havent put as much time into that as I have on the 81mmI need a barrel for an M69BWhere source?
>>64867336this isn't /arg/.
>>64867336Where the fuck did you get my photo?
>>64867353I dont think either the pastebins or the collages are intended to be totally exhaustive.
>>64867368Personally I'm not a fan of carriers made entirely of a totally water impermeable material It's like wearing plastic. Makes me sweat like a mofo.
>>64867368>>64867408I live in the desert, I'm with second anon, I'm worried about not having enough vent between plate and base layer.>>64867391They aren't, I was more curious if there was a reason /not/ to use this old thing. I'm not important enough to worry about IR compliance.
>>64867421Buy some CAPs if you need venting. Bonus is they reduce BFD.
>>64867391Only ones intended to be reasonably exhaustive are the manufacturer-specific /bag/ infographics. Ex the Hesco infograph has every current production model plus the 4801 and 4520. Weird shit like the 4403LV / 4601LV and the very old school stuff like the 1520 / 3590 are out.
new >>64867567
>>64867573jumping the gun a bit?
>>64867581I can fill up the last seven posts with pictures of my balls if you'd like
>>64867588I'll accept but only if you record yourself doing the helicopter piss on betamax and ship the tape registered mail to ya mudda. I can't do VHS.
I will also accept Laserdisc if you are able to reactivate one of the five Laserdisc presses and make one more disc of ya dick ya feel me?
>>64867336Sicko.
>>64867588>>64867702
>>64867336I did hear the new avengers sucked ass, I didn't know literally. This is the new Captain America.
>>64867336DudeSeriously Where did you get my picture
>>64867787It's in a folder on my pc with two others labeled "tactical latex faggot." Modified June 5, 2017. Added January 3, 2020. They were posted to this board.
>>64867851Well now I wonder who the hell posted it back then
>>64867887Probably your boyfriend or sugar daddy or whoever else took the photos
>>64867887From what little I remember the one who posted it claimed to be the one in the photo. Baited everyone with a pic of just the mask and the garand for shock value. Then when prompted said "yeah I'll show you the whole getup" and proceeded to deliver.
>>64867934Yeah, I don't do that dragged out shit even when I'm drunk so that definitely wasn't me. Weird.
>>64847929I want to up armor my leather duster with 3a armor like the ranger riot armor from Fallout New Vegas.But I can't find a halfway decent set of split ballistic panels from an early war IBA well that and the pleated brown sweater material that lines the lower portion of the coatI've scavenged enough panels from various 3a vests to build it but the front facing ones are particularly elusive
>>64866011"Sissy pads" have been around for a while. If you're going to shoot a heavy-recoiling shoulder-fired gun a lot, you may find yourself wanting one. Unless you're Scott from Kentucky Ballistics, who has appreciable mass in his shoulders and likes to feel the kick.
