/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/, anon prepared to drop two G's on a pair of plates. Other anon defended the HONOR of the Hesco 4403 using analogies, and Hesco replaced the 4403... with the 4403.

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.165
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):
Budget: Hesco T212 or L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Used Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023
Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)
Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)
Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)

Rolling for A2 death

>>65081631
A2 LIVES

Also holy shit the board's dead as fuck ever since the captcha was moved to the backup Core 2 Duo Windows XP laptop with a broken fan and bonzai buddy and ten pornhub tabs open

>>65081772
I have that laptop and Microsoft FORCED me to upgrade to Windows 11 a few weeks ago. Ever since then, I'm barely able to use it. Fucking sucks. Was working just fine before that forced update.
Anyway, yeah, /k/ is probably as slow as it has ever been.

Recommendations for a sapi small plate carrier? I know crye has the jpc but can't seem to find much else out there.
>t.spooky skeleton

>>65081822
I have an asus i7 laptop and the fucking daily updates because 180 iq hacker figures out a new way to breach microsoft ai vibe coded shit is absurd.
Meanwhile all of my analog audiophile gear from 1995 is perfectly fine.

Every major company in every industry is turning into fucking Highcom.

>>65081989
Most people wear a SAPI M or 10x12, hence why the majority of carriers favor that size. Are you positive you're SAPI small?
JPC is solid time-tested design.

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What could it be? Is it gear? Are you a queer?

>>65082053
nigga are you a dog? why tf did you chew into your mail package? there are literal teeth marks on it lmao

>>65082053
It's cheap shit from Aliexpress shipped by uniuni! Delivered at 1:32 AM down MLK blvd by a chain smoking 45 going on 75 Chinese man in a 1999 Corolla with bald tires!

>>65082101
OwO

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>>65081559
Any Gloves recommendations? My Mechanix keep ripping open at the finger seams.

>>65082130
fingerless

>>65081772
>>65081822
>Core 2 Duo Windows XP laptop with a broken fan and bonzai buddy and ten pornhub tabs open
>I have that laptop
Why you have ten pornhub tabs open? Is it at least Rita Peach?

>>65082156
Cadey Mercury

>>65082160
She looks like A2's lesbo sister. You got anyone else?

>>65082189
Melody Marks is my emergency material when I need to buuuuuh but only got ten minutes

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Has anyone got or used a similar leaf suit/ cape/ hood? Did you like it?

I just watched the GT video on Surviving Drone Warfare and the hood the Ukraine verteran was talking about looked dope.

He mentioned it was from a gear company called Lapa, but I could only find dead shopify links.

Anyone got links to Lapas store or a good alternative?

>>65082205
https://lapa-gear.com.ua/viper_hood

Anyone in the Ukraine conflict swears by them.

>>65082205
There are shitloads of Chinese ones on amazon and aliexpress for like forty dollars.

>>65082212
>https://lapa-gear.com.ua/viper_hood
Thanks anon!

Are the V3-11 variants just colour? or are they interations on features? I often hunt in pretty lush evergreen forests, so I'm not sure about which one to get.

>>65082265
They're just color variants, except v2, which doesn't have the foliage. Pick the darker green ones if you're in lush environments.

>>65082205
You could also try skirmshops stalker line, its an airsoft brand but theyve seen some use on both sides in ukraine and are a clone of the sokl suits some russian units issue. Its more expensive than lapa, but you don't have to deal with ukraines sketchy ass postal service losing your shit. I would avoid chink leaf gear, as they tend look plasticky and have poor leaf density, unless you intend to bulk it up yourself with cable ties and your own leaves/fabric. They also tend to have the leaves sewn in straight columns, which isnt the end of the world but it does stand out more than not. Similarly Id avoid civilian hunting versions (ie, cabelas, jack pyke, etc), they're just not fit for purpose. Too lightweight fabric-wise, not NIR (yes its a meme that people fixate on too much, but its relevant to the discussion of personal concealment), no concessions for wearing a vest or belt, hoods too small for a helmet, theyre just not appropriate. Older pre-2010s ones are crunchy and loud while the newer ones are silent, but at the cost of their silky leaves move unnaturally in the wind and catch the eye, problems in both cases. Wouldn't personally bother with the scrim style hoods like the beez or crye ones, not because they aren't effective but for what is a section of camo net with arm loops, the prices are obscene. You could make your own for a few dollars if thats your thing. No matter what you go with, get some spray on fire retardant, all leaf shit no matter the flavor is inherently begging to burn and you don't want to be wearing one when they catch.

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>>65082447
Legend, cheers

Just to keep the thread alive, who likes SAS smocks?

I picked one up off marketplace last year and found it to be a really good all rounder.

+protects arms well from scratchy bushes, sticks etc
+zippers to vent heat, excellent if using it more as sun protection
+roomy as hell, easy to wear a jumper/ puffer underneath for warmth
-hood cant be folded away and stowed in a collar
-No pockets good for throwing hands in to keep warm
-no drawstring/ cord above the hips so it sits a bit baggy if not wearing a chest harness.

>wearing a platatac peacekeeper rig also in multicam so it's a bit hard to see the smock.

>>65082130
sew them back together

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>>65082053
>>65082101
Woof.
>>65082104
>It's cheap shit from Aliexpress
Getting warmer.

>>65082798
My man used the Aliexpress secret links to buy two bricks of philly fent. go birds!
Did you at least keep the drugs in your cart for a few days so adaptive pricing kicked in and you got the best deal?

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Y'awl ain't very gud at this, possible queers.

>>65083331
this is /gq/ not /pfg/
if your shit has alice clips it doesnt belong

cleaning kits?

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>>65083331
Before you goa jizzin' yur seff. Stickered "Made in China", so repros. But, for $12/ea, what do you want? Imagine the irone of going full wolverine! slotting slopes and clinging your band stick with a cleaning kit thier children got paid $0.14/day to wrap in knockoff Saran Wrap just to sell to fat Americans (speak for yourselves, I'm down to my last belt hole and pants getting losser). But ironin, yes? All brand new, haven't used, but can easily upgrade brushes to Bore Snake.

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>>65083337
>Alice doesn't live here anymore
That reference probably eludes you. And yes, she does.

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>>65083346
got this for my range bag recently
for 3 dollars more I got a whole other caliber

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>>65083380
Nice. How do you clip it to your A.L.I.C.E. rig? Or do you just put in your CARGO SHORTS pocket?

>>65083395
the joy of things that go in my range bag is that they are in my range bag
I dont need to clip them to my dad's old suspenders

>>65083403
>joy
Imagine prancing around the range being happy and not slogging through the mud. Sounds kinda gay.

>>65083337
>this is /gq/ not /pfg/
even though I said this I actually feel bad because I had to buy some condor pouches, no one else makes a good pouch for metal 20 round 308 mags
probably put them on an flc for a cheap scout sniper set up

>>65083337
>this is /gq/ not /pfg/
These merged long ago, then merged with /larpg/, yet again.

>>65083433
>/larpg/
that wasnt a real general, it was never self sustaining and /gq/ was always larping

we did merge with /bag/ but that feels mike more of an infection or parasite

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>>65083440

>>65083440
You got that backwards if you check the archives. /gq/ was basically a corpse in 2022, /bag/ had to skip town in the same year (because the head guy dipped, mods were infighting, then the fbi groomie shot up a supermarket) so the remnants became /gq/ and what was left of /gq/ merged into /bag/ which is now /gq/.
The general has always been very armor heavy except when /bag/ was its own separate thing. This isn't new because armor filters normies and it's very, very easy to make the "wrong" buy.

>>65083476
>very easy to make the "wrong" buy
There is only one buy, VelSys PBZ-SAs.

>>65083433
/pfg/ merged with /gqbag/ right after the Highcom 4SAS4 debacle. I was there in the Highcom threads and saw it decline. The last iteration of the /pfg/ guide prominently rec'd that plate. It turned out to be really shitty even by bottom barrel $172/set standards. Right after the Highcom threads wound up, /pfg/ just upped and died.
/nvg/ was the next /gqbagpfglarpg/ conquest. Soon, the patch threads. We don't have the numbers to sustain five separate overlapping generals anyways. Is what it is.

>>65083492
Nobody but the SELLERS will miss the patch thread.

>>65083488
The Incel Hesco SC3812 vs the Normie LTC 28791 vs the Chad PBZSA vs the Thad Ceradyne MH3 CQB
>tfw you're Integris, formerly Tencate, formerly Chuck's
>You are the only armor company larger than a shoe closet with no NIJ suspensions or product recalls
>In 2014 VelSys asks you to make a boron carbide PE plate that stops M80, M855A1, and BZ API
>ok
>everyone loves it
>Twelve years pass
>LTC's dealers sell plates like the 28791 for $4,600 a set that are worse than the PBZSA in every way.
>You're still cruising at $2,200 a set.
>With plates using twelve year old technology
>With no alterations

>>65083499
Make them a fucking infographic and all will be EQUAL once again

Is this a good deal for $100?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/297244353857

>>65083520
>out of stock
I'm afraid not. Anyways, BA3As are solid entry level helmets. That's a fine deal for "IIIA" from a reputable mfg.

Alright so I decided I'm going to get an S&W 1854 in .45-70. I really like the black on stainless look. Am I retarded?

Also what's a good .45-70 load for home defense? I live in a mchouse with thin mcwalls. This 24/7 talk of plates also is making me worry .45-70 won't be able to handle the modern arp american

>>65083520
>>65083527
Are they only one size? I got a big noggin, need an XL

>>65083595
Yeah it's universal size.

>>65083527
>oos
>That's a fine deal
Added to watch list anyway.

>>65083564
.45-70 is notorious for being the only recorded instance of someone actually dying to backface deformation. Level IIA soft armor in the 80s or 90s "stopped" the round but BFD was over 100mm. He probably would have lived if he wore even one of those old school 7x8 rectangular steel trauma plates. .45-70 by default is a poor penetrator.
On the other hand, Speer sold these .458 Grand Slam Penetrator bullets in the 00s, 500gr w/ tungsten penetrators meant for dangerous African game.
Rumor has it they were told to fuck it off because people were reloading them into .458 SOCOM and they were able to bust ESAPIs even at lower velocity. I think this took advantage of boron carbide strike faces being awful against tungsten penetrators but not hard steel and below, so I don't think that round will reliably clown all Level IV. Huge penetrator though, so it's sketchy. In that case a .45-70 would be fine but those bullets are gonna be hard as nails to source.
Or maybe reload a remington accelerator sabot with M855A1 - I should probably shut up you can't use that in a tube mag anyways.

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posting poorfag gear as an auscuck
GQs rarely even have their gear squared away:
Spray paint webbing/pack green/brown
Tape up straps.
Get a small grab bag (15-20L) with hydration bladder, ammo, cleaning kit, nav and admin shit, basic trauma/first aid kit, 24hr rations etc and store it under the lid of your larger field pack.
Add red filter duct tape to ya head lamp/torches.
Lanyard all essential kit.
Waterproof everything in a large dry bag.
Laminate your maps to waterproof them.
Silence sling swivels with paracord or cloth tape (jump up n down to check noise).
Scrim your helmet.
Tape some purification tablets to every canteen.
Make up commander slate cards (quick reports, salute, sentry roster, equipment and NVG serial number record table etc), print, laminate then brush with sand paper so it is waterproofed and can be written on with pencil and then erased.

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Slate cards on right.
Also waterproof some family photos, or your fav wank bank.

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Aus survival kit contents.

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Print, cut around external border, fold and waterproof. Or modify to your own needs as an evasion aide memoire.

>>65082023
Yes, I'm 5'9and 160lbs. I do have 10x12 lvl 4 plates but I went smaller and lighter. Small restricts less getting the rifle into my shoulder. I also cut like 8 lbs off going to smaller iii+ plates and figure I should get a carrier to really enjoy it.
Lbx has their non berry compliant 6094 which is an older design?

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And a final page. Idk go do a med or shooting or survival course and stop wanking over gear.

>>65083629
Excellent. Speaking of helmets, I'm really itching to pick up one of those Jinwudun Level IIIs from CHINA but $800 is really ass for wildcard equipment.

>>65083656
>Tape some purification tablets to every canteen.
I use a sawyer filter as it will last much longer. Cant count on getting to a FOB to resupply as a civilian

>>65083670
Homes you're right in the mid range for 10x12 or SAPI M, I thought you were like 4'11 and highly portable.
>Small restricts less getting the rifle into my shoulder.
Maybe a more aggressive shooters cut or swimmer 10x12? You're down on coverage big time with SAPI S or 8x10. SAPIs also have less cut out in the shoulder area so that could be the problem for your geometry.
>I also cut like 8 lbs off going to smaller iii+ plates
Yeah but you're down on coverage. It sounds like you started with very heavy IVs, which is a common problem. People tend to go IV to III+ then back to a better set of IV from what I've seen.
What plates did you start with and what are you running now?

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FUCK

>>65083684
GET READY TO RUMBLE WITH THE POST OFFICE
>>65083673
These effortposts are all pretty solid outback steakhouse anon, I'm going to take these and put them in the RESERVE where THEY BELONG.

>>65083686
it's ups, i need to sit by the front door for the next 8 hours

How much vital protection are you losing with a shooter cut?

>>65083681
>I thought you were like 4'11 and highly portable.
Nah, I'm only mildly rapable at my current size.
Went from some old single curve RMAs to hesco 3611c. I figured the trade off was worth it.

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>>65083686
Fuck it. Here is a resources list: use z-librar.sk on yandex
The Reluctant Partisan Volume 1 The Guerrilla (John Mosby)
The Reluctant Partisan Volume 2 The Underground (John Mosby)
Special Forces Qualification Course Tactical Skills TTP Guide on scribd
Covert Rural Surveillance (Ben Wall) on zlibrary
Composite Warfare The Conduct of Successful Ground Force Operations in Africa (Eeben Barlow) (Z-Library)
Everything else is learnt from courses: SUT, survival, tccc, and by fucking around in bush with frens
Lmao lmao cache, cache, cache

>>65083696
3611Cs are solid especially at current prices. By old RMA single curve I presume the 1155, in which case you did really well. The non-rating for the 3611C vs M855A1 is a bit annoying, but you're eating a weight penalty getting A1 protection unless you really spend big bucks.
>>65083695
Major case of it depends because shooters cut is NOT industry standardized. The industry can't even decide what 10x12 means. For Gilliam and Hesco, 10x12 is 10x12. For Highcom and RMA these days, about 9x11 and with bottom corner cutouts so coverage is even further reduced.
Keep in mind also an honest 10x12 is slightly wider but shorter than a 9.5x12.5 SAPI M, so it's really a draw coverage wise. SAPI M is 3% heavier typically, in a perfect world, so it does cover slightly more.

>>65083689
I don't have this problem with UniUni. 50 year ord chinese arcohoric derivers free across strait of hormuz to my house at two in morning. If I am not there he throws the package into a tree so porch pirates cannot get it.

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>>65083709
Good shit, in exchange here is the combined version of all three "BLOC" old school infographics.
Basically the purpose of these was to provide an entry level "just gimme shit that works I don't care about fucking Hescum 4403 vs Highcum 4SEX4 vs Gilliam Technical Arms Rouge Crouissant 9969" or "JPC 1.0 vs 2.0 vs 3.0" nuance.

>>65083674
>CHINA
>wildcard
Dubious, until you actually performance test it and then it's value is that of a blown fuse. An $800 blown fuse.

>>65083689
Did this once, UPS guy literally drove by amd didnt even stop and try, I was screaming at him like a lunatic as he drove off.

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>>65084004
>until you actually performance test it and then it's value is that of a blown fuse
And even then, what if I just get lucky and got the one out of five that actually does the job? Or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe I get a dud and the rest of them are fine.
That's why backyard testing is no substitute for NIJ certification, and why somebody needs to go yell at the NIJ because they've been trying to make a new standard for helmets, so you can actually certify helmets and have ratings above level II, for about twenty years.

Anyways, the numbers check out for at least single hit protection against 7.62x51mm M80, given the helmet is 5.7lb. My concern is backface deformation, because Jinwudun doesn't use very good materials. The PE they use in their IIIA skirt and what not seems fine, I mean it's literally just layers of polyethylene, but helmets are a different beast. Also their Level IVs across the board are below-spec, with an M2AP velocity of 2,800ft/s versus actual requirement of 2,910ft/s, so it's pretty safe to say they're a discount operation.

>>65084015
>screaming at him like a lunatic as he drove off.
>WITNESS ME!
I wouldn't stop either, you psychotic freak!

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>>65084015
He probably kicked someone's Highcom 4SAS4s, damaged them beyond measure, and thought you were that guy.

>>65084030
>what if I just get lucky and got the one out of five that actually does the job
Oh, that's easy; just buy 5 (or more) and shoot them until you have a satisfactory sample base that appeals to your comfort zone! NaP!

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>>65084050
I gotta shoot thirty six helmets and then shoot thirty six more every year to maintain my comfort zone certification?
Oh no....
>pic related, Mark Greene Ph.D on the left aka the guy who actually runs the NIJ's standards division.

>>65084060
>i eat a lot of jelly beans
I don't want to body shame, but when was the last time this guy had to back up his shit talk?

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do you wear gorka suit? have you worn gorka suit? will you wear gorka suit? when will you wear gorka suit?

>>65083679
sawyer filters will break if they freeze after use, pretty impossible to get all the water out of them
you can store them in your jacket to keep them warm but its a good idea to carry tablets as a backup, I would put them in the canteen pouch though, side of the canteen is going to have a lot of moisture and friction, tape will come loose

>>65083673
>go do a med or shooting or survival course and stop wanking over gear.
I can do both

>>65084068
>when was the last time this guy had to back up his shit talk?
by tanking multiple rounds of m2ap? hes a lab guy

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>>65084075
I will wear gorka suit when /gq/ stops talking about body armor.
>>65084060
He reminds me of the dad from In Time (2011) starring Justin Timberlake.

>>65084075
>cotton
no

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>>65084080
>>65084068
I gotta be honest, he mogs most of the CEOs of actual armor companies.
>fresh $0 haircut from Mom
>Definitive head to shoulder ratio
>Suspended the RMA 1155, made RMA have a meltie, didn't even gratify them with a response
>Hesco is his bitch
>Answers emails promptly, informs people that the 4SAS4 is not certified. Therefore Apex / Chase / Tacticalshit are lying mattafawkas
>Will suspend you if there's a wrinkle in your plate covers
>will tell you your life is a workmanship defect
Chad Greene.

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>>65084097
>Hesco is his bitch
Greene on the right, HESCO on the left, colorized pic from 1895.

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>>65084114
Fixed that for you.

I've come to the conclusion the entire body armor industry is a clown show of biblical proportions.

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Okay so Gilliam just discontinued the Herald RF3 plate about a week after launching it. Page 404's.
https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/herald-rf3-multi-curved-ceramic-armor-plate?
It has been replaced by the Model 1635, of which no specs are known because the page 404's.
I've never seen a company launch and abort new products this quickly. I thought the Herald was in the final stages of obtaining NIJ 0101.07 cert.
I'm not even going to bother updating the infographic honestly. Every week they've got new shit.

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>>65084138
>clown show
I am forgotten.

>>65084237
>I've never seen a company launch and abort new products this quickly
>never heard of the Taser X3
At least the X3 had a longer life cycle than the Herald.

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>>65084241
Now that's a HERALD right there.

Anyways, I found the table. Gilliam 1635 is literally just the Herald but they dropped the Herald name. 6.45lb multi-hit IV, $250/plate, 1.1" or 1.2" thick, they can't make up their minds about that last one last I checked. The webpage about how it's named after W. Gilliam's 10th great granddad John Guillium from the 17th century also 404's.
I'm pretty damn sure Wilson Gilliam (owner dude at GTS) lurks here so maybe Neetmaster busted his balls too hard while GOONING to the VS-PBZSA.

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>>65084245
>three shot taser
Damn I could have used that back in SWAT 4 with the boys.
Anyways, this whole weekly change thing is not helping GTS' reputation. This is lifesaving equipment. Stabilize the lineup, focus on proven performers (8002, 1023, 9490, Helion, 6001), show the world they work (send them all to Buffman or other youtubers if you don't trust Matt), and then the money will come raking in when you offer proven better-than-Hesco performance for Militech pricing. Get them certified to .07 when applicable. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

>>65084080
>sawyer filters will break if they freeze after use
This doesn't apply to me for my AO but good information. Redundancy is always a good idea for something as vital as water

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>>65084281
>water
LISAN AL-GAIB

Okay can someone actually tell me about fucking /larpg/ I never actually heard of that joint. Was it like operatorchan?

>>65084257
>The webpage about how it's named after W. Gilliam's 10th great granddad John Guillium from the 17th century
I wonder if it was just some English aristocracy threatening legal action for HERALDIC INFRINGEMENT?
>i say, constance my plum, that bloke has an assault product named after your uncle pubert

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>>65084311
Probably what happened honestly. If W. Gilliam is a boomer and John Guillium was his 10th great granddad, there's a lot of busting in between those two and I imagine there's an English side of the tree with better rights to the heraldry and likeness of the OG Guillium.
On another note, Hesco is apparently redoing their naming system. The 4403 is now the RF3-400, so the 4601 will be RF3-600, 4800 RF3-800. The 3811 will be RF2-800, 3802 RF1-800.
I don't know what they're doing with the SRTs. I like the change from Hesco, gets rid of the 4400's shadow over the 4403 and also cleans things up. Also invites the possibility of 1000 series ultra-high-end plates if they want to take another stab at the 4520 for example.

>>65084320
>Hesco is apparently redoing their naming system. The 4403 is now the RF3-400, so the 4601 will be RF3-600, 4800 RF3-800. The 3811 will be RF2-800, 3802 RF1-800.
Good. It wasn't confusing enough.

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>>65084324
It's much easier now, IMO.
It now goes rating, then "class" - 400 low end, 600 mid, 800 high end. So when they replace the 4403 AKA RF3-400, the replacement will be the RF3-401. The only flaw with the new system is that there's no provisions for a plus, so RF2-400 (aka 3411) will actually be M855A1 rated but RF2-600 and RF2-800 won't be, so there's still that confusion from the old one.

Previously, it was:
First digit = rating.
Second digit = class.
Third digit = reinforcement (3810 is higher than 3800, 4520 significantly higher than 4600 on paper but that's academic because they haven't used any 500 series names in over a decade)
Fourth digit = revision. (3811 is revised 3810)

Plate naming systems are generally illogical, so Hesco's is really good in comparison. Highcom's system makes absolutely zero sense. The 3S21M is the RF2 version of the 3S14M. 3S7M is the RF2 version of the 3S15M. 4S17M is downmarket from the 4S16. They have their plates broken up into ICON, which is the cheap holdout lineup from 2008, ENHANCED mid-range kinda-competes with Hesco stuff, and then SUPERIOR which gets messed up by Hesco's top shelf plates. Ceradyne's and LTC's are downright arcane.

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>>65083730
Thanks, bro. The Hescos were surplussed and expired, but about $250. They replace what I think are 1155s, but they are 10 years old so i presume before they updated them as they seem to be multi-curve now. And still like 8lbs. I can deal with no ap protection.

>>65083527
Speaking of helmets, I have an old gentex pasgt. Any way to look up if it was made to ach specs?

>>65084334
>3S7M is the RF2 version of the 3S15M
Typo, meant to say RF1 version here

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>>65084336
>The Hescos were surplussed and expired, but about $250
Solid deal. Don't worry about the expiration. Plates don't go bad with age alone unless they use cheap adhesive and the layers delaminate or they're stored improperly for long periods of time and the UHMWPE backer fails. Keep them out of a car trunk in texas for months and there's nothing to worry about unless they're 0101.04 era plates.
>They replace what I think are 1155s
Good move replacing those. The 1155s are junk and probably the fourth-worst Level IV made by a "major" company in recent memory. Third would be 4SAS4, second AR500 ALSC, first would probably be the RMA 1145, which is the 1155 but with no drop protection so it has all the problems of the 1155 and 4SAS4 combined.
>but they are 10 years old so i presume before they updated them as they seem to be multi-curve now
They made a multi-curve version of the OG 1155 (1155MC) and then replaced both versions with a new GEN2 1155, which is badly undersized to try and fake-out a major weight reduction.
>I can deal with no ap protection.
Hey if the situation ever changes, go pick up some Gilliam 8002s. They weigh 8.3lb for 10.3x12.3, so about the same as your 1155s, but are rated for ridiculously heavy duty stuff like .300 Winmag Swiss P AP, M993, .416 Remmag, etc. Run the 3611s, keep 8002s in reserve for contingency purposes in case the situation changes.
>Any way to look up if it was made to ach specs?
Date of manufacture, NSN if you have it, and model number?

>>65084345
cage 97427 and it says law enforcement helmet. p/n 03500088, date of manufacture is 2/01

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Also speaking of AR500, AKA the armor company with probably the worst reputation in the industry, they make shields now!
https://www.ar500armor.com/collections/ballistic-shields/
The Delta Pro is typical AR500 chicanery. 16x30", 23lb, only rated up to M193 at 3,100ft/s and M855. I'm miffed by the absence of 7.62x51mm M80, which should be EASY for steel armor. Curious if it's thin and the steel breaks if hit with more energetic rounds? Can you SHATTER this into PIECES with a .45-70 like Longmire?
And a free video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlTOD1cWhoY

I assume the upcoming Omega is their A4 steel-titanium alloy plate but in shield form, so it's good for M80A1 but not M855A1. Hate to say it but Jinwudun mogs the fuck out of these guys.

>>65084257
Damn, I was just joshing him. "Herald" is ackshually a pretty cool name. Feels bad, man.

>>65084371
>2/01
So it's about two years too early to be made to ACH spec. It is possible since it's marked law enforcement that it is one of the "updated" PASGT designs made to an approximate IIIA-but-for-helmets spec. There were quite a few of those at the time sold by various companies. However, an actual ACH would provide more reliable rating, since the military actually holds ACHs to the same standards while "IIIA" in a helmet context means whatever because THIS GUY >>65084060 hasn't updated the damn helmet standard since the 80s and before IIIA was even a thing.

>>65084373
I don't get the shield market, honestly.
US-made rifle-rated shields are like $3000 - 10000+
China-made rifle-rated shields are like $300-1000
I get wanting "made in the USA" and all, but surely you'd have to be RETARDED to buy a $10k shield from AR500 when a Chink shield mogs it at 1/10th the price.

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>>65084375
Actually I'm like 95% sure Gilliam does lurk and sometimes post here, see pic rel from a few breads ago. He actually seems to get better reception on plebbit aside from beefing with Buffman but that was months ago.
I do like Herald better than *checks notes because I forgot the fucking number* 1635. Dude's using Ceradyne naming systems. Random number generator. 96034, 92547, 96448... 101314... 2572575... VI-10... VI-11... D275... 5001... 6001... 8002... 9969... 1969... 8001...
>WHAT DO THE NUMBERS MEAN?
>>65084380
Cost of materials is the typical argument, but that's bogus because the $7,500 Echo shield is using mystery UHMWPE and it's 20x34. 22lb and it will lose to M855 like a bitch. Hell I don't even see a claim for 7.62x39 MSC. Meanwhile Jinwudun's PE Level III shield is 24.5x36.6, 25.8lb, and only $1,100.
Also, their Silicon Carbide-PE III+ shield is good for M80, M193, M855, 7.62x39 MSC, 32lb and 20x35.5", and only $1,200.

>>65083709
belt kit is so fucking based
the plce is cool but crossfire dz rig + cf3 + slick carrier is God tier

>>65084441
>cf3
$520 for the real deal or $248 for CHINA version on Aliexpress. Hmm...

Hey /gq/ what's good for a sling these days? My rifle setup is a heavy AR10, and I want something comfy. I have no problem shelling out $$$ if the best options are more expensive than the stuff available on Amazon.

>>65084463
surplus M60 sling
>https://www.ebay.com/itm/295797744119

>>65084463
Above all else don't get a ZOHAN sling. Mine had zinc pot metal hardware and blew out on the range it was very sad and I lost all my aura.

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>>65084463
I have owned a ton of slings but at this point I just resort to buying a Magpul MS1/2/3, RLS, or an Edgar Sherman if it's a lightweight gun. Vickers slings usually run 10-20% more than a Magpul and they're no better, just a meme at this point.

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>>65084489
Is there a particular reason you're not recommending the MS4? I think it looks comfy, desu

>>65084506
The MS3 gives you an HK clip, you can use it with a QD mount plugged into the gun 24/7 and unclip it if needed to attach it to a paracord or other area. It's more versatile than the MS4. Splitting hairs on my part, really.

>>65084289
it was a couple threads that never got traction, you didnt miss anything

>>65084463
vickers padded sling

https://surplus.botach.com/rip-ram-breaching-forcible-entry-device-police-trade/
Botach still has a 50lb battering ram with hook for $400. Shipping is about $40-60.

>>65084522
Ah, so like /alig/ aliexpress general, which was an early conquest for /gq/ formerly /bag/ formerly /gq/.

>>65084549
lol nobody wants it

>>65084571
Yeah it's been there for a year, no joke.
Do you think if I offer $200 shipped they'll deal?
Anyone with a girlfriend ain't gonna have a girlfriend after the fedex man whips out this bad boy and you inevitably lean it against the wall in the living room.

>>65083689
did they cum?

>>65084489
Extra padding is nice.

Recommend a large (40+l) durable 'sack/pack in the 200$ range that either isnt or doesnt look like tacticringe.

@Grok

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>>65084661
eberlestock terminator
very low pro

>>65084659
You should see the M240 sling. /gq/ may be too /pf/ for that.

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>>65084661

>>65084661
ALICE

>>65084700
Have considered getting one.
Whats the experience like with the frame? Is it hard on your back?

>>65084075
I have an old Gorka4 that I bought from a store in St Petersburg in 2014. Compared to modern techwear stuff that gets issued to the military now, its pretty average.

It is however a perfectly good wind breaker and light jumper which is good for walking my dog in winter, especially if there is light rain.

I like the kangaroo pocket at the front, but that is useless if you're using armour or a chest rig.

The cotton tent fabric gets a nice patina on it after just a few washes so it looks nice and worn in, which is a look I prefer over brand new stuff.

I've hardly used the pants

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>>65084656
yeah

>>65082130
FWIW, if you don't care about brand/look, I used to use some Gorilla Grip gloves I found at a heavy discount. Same thing with the fingertip wear; I think I should use the "pringles can" of Plastidip tool handle goo in the future to refresh the fingertips as I wear away the rubber. Craftsman, ironically now sold at Lowes, those work well as thin work gloves but are thicker. Same with the mint green Harbor Freight. Only ever tried the Gorilla Grip brand ones for shooting and I love them, the yellow label. I find most gloves wear out fast, are too bulky and baggy, or some combination of the two. The HF ones might be too thick for shooting (and they're mint green lol). There's this David Malawey guy on YT I follow just for the random ideas and autistic level research the guy does on random subjects. Not always perfect but his latest post was about gloves with actual safety ratings/certifications today. HyFlex was in there and they look good for shooting if they don't cost a ton. Never seen a long term review on them. I just buy whatever's cheap and comfortable for the range; saves my hands so they're not black at the end of the day.

>>65082205
I have a jacket I got cheap secondhand. Never used it; mine needs a major redye as it's grey. The little leaf tabs will rip off; mine are a felt material so they pull and stretch. They get caught on brush and thorns and hold burrs. Still want to try it but every time I want to ghillie a hat or something I give up. Looks so easy but I just can't get the knack; it's definitely a skill. For context, my use is for hunting so I'm often in the woods.

>>65082528
>it's an airsoft brand
Speaking of, that KickingMustang guy blows my mind. He's definitely using quite a lot of his own products but his ability to camouflage clothes is nuts. I don't have any interest in airsoft, really, but his videos came up when I was looking into camouflaging hats, jackets, and rifles.

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>>65084682
>$140
Actually not that bad. There are some slings sold for $200. If there are dudes out there paying $5k to gamble on a set of plates, there are dudes who will pay $300 for a sling.

>>65083656
>print, laminate then brush with sand paper so it is waterproofed and can be written on with pencil and then erased.
Now those are the ideas I'm after. Cant say I need a waterproof writing surface right now but who knows where you might need it?

>>65084463
I use an MS1 and an MS4 for hunting FWIW. No padding, one gun has QDs and the other slots and old style swivels. Both rifles are in the 7-7.5 Lb range. I take them out at least 60 days a year I'd estimate. Some very short days, others 4+ hours if I'm exploring and hunting a new spot or just need a good walk that day.

>>65084735
NTA but I've hunted with one. Gets in the way of shouldering a rifle a little but all will. Wish it had canteen or drink holders on the side (tube frame makes this an easy mod). With the waist belt, it makes heavy shit feel like nothing. Can get caught when ducking under low brush but that's all packs. Rivets are replaceable and repairable with little more than a harbor freight pop rivet kit (bought a fucked frame cheap). Make sure yours doesn't have two left or two right straps; they used to "demil" them by cutting one of the straps or pads clean through. This then cause a huge shortage of that side's strap replacement kits that all went to surplus resellers repairing their packs (90s/00s?). Don't ask me what crack-smoking logic the army/DRMO had for doing that but it was a thing and can plague some frames yet. Rothco probably made $$$ making repro straps.

>>65084822
If I were to buy one Id probably attach it to an old Kelty frame with modern hip belt/straps . Theres no reason to use the original steel IMO other than the shorter height. Ive also considered more recent rucksacks but Ive personally seen pieces of the plastic frames snap.
My main concern is the weight distribution when fully loaded since its a fatter pack (most packs are a bit taller these days). Only asked about the frame because Im still considering it. Would you use one?

>>65084837
*Still use one, for LARPing purposes

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>>65084060
Wait hang on here, I think there's two Mark Greenes at the NIJ. This is the real guy.

>>65084858
same guy, contacts

>>65084858
faceblind is a sign of autism

>>65084799
>not that bad.
Materials include nomex, steel cable, padded carry strap, all fire retardant for hot bbls. I got a used one, all broken in, but would rec new. Ultra durable.

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>>65084868
Did he age ten years in a day and become Italian?

>>65084873
Nta, I have trouble with names, what's my problem?

>>65084873
The twenty five infographics on body armor didn't tell you that already? Good god man!

>>65084881
>too many jelly beans
I warned you guys. You'll need bigger shirts!

>>65084881
are the pictures a day apart?
mostly he just got some sun

>>65084898
Left side 7/31/19, right side 10/31/19.

>>65084881
what plates tho? very lo vis.

>>65084917
>40#s over weight
>shaped like alfred hitchcock
No plates, my guess.

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>>65084917
If it's lo-vis and NIJ compliant then it's going to have to be steel. I'm sorry.
>>65084927
>>65084892
>Could have published NIJ 0101.07 if I hadn't had a zoom call with Safariland!
>Don't fuck with this Director!
>The Chinese certified plates will be purged from the CPL and the Americans will thrive — free to be purchased with DOJ BVP grants as they see fit. They’ll make Armor great again!
>Drop foam, son. It compresses in response to physical trauma!
>Making the mother of all CPLs here, Hesco, Can't fret over every suspension!

>>65084735
The frame seems scary since its metal, but if you're wearing it right its not even touching its back. The hip belt and the straps are what do the work. In the Marines ALICE frames were popular even though they were heavier than the plastic curved frames for the ILBE, because they'd break easier. I think an ALICE pack modernized a bit like with buckles and zippers sewn in to replace the straps that close the bag itself is really hard to beat.

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Fixed it

>>65081772
>A2 LIVES
That sucks

>>65084957
He's just recovering from surgery,. You know, where they trip the hedge and clip the fence post...

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>>65084951

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>>65084963
I think he gave Oxide the diiih in his aaaah and when he buuuh'd he got the ass worms so he had to break into a vet's office to get Ivermectin and then had to do battle to the tune of Lady Gaga - Judas, like Leon Kennedy and Hunk, with RFK Jr. who was hoarding the last supply of the Ivermectin for the coming battle between God and Satan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bIYzavalQ

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>>65084992
Yeah the other AI model does aliexpress rizz cloaks better. I mean look at this absolute drip.
https://youtu.be/_u1WlEMCDis?list=RD_u1WlEMCDis&t=34

>>65084995
Keep your gas station housewife fanfic to yourself desu. I'm out for real.

Goodbye!

>>65085030
the raped returns

>>65085059
That ain't him. not his trip code.
A2Grape must have lost the battle at the vet's office. Told him he should have bought a dick flap. RFK Jr. whipped out a Honshu Naginata from BudK and twirled like a ballerina and ran that blade right between his Arcteryx pants. The shock of losing $300 pants and his A2Peen resulted in INSTANT DEATH.

>>65085070
exceptional post

>>65084837
>Theres no reason to use the original steel IMO
Aluminum, actually. Comes in black, a muddy tannish green IIRC, and rarely green.
>My main concern is the weight distribution when fully loaded since its a fatter pack (most packs are a bit taller these days). Only asked about the frame because Im still considering it. Would you use one [for LARPing]?
The frame isn't bad all considered and if you snag one or piece one together cheap I'd consider it a no-brainer. They're out there at yardsales and stuff for $15-25. Highly moddable and there's a surplus shelf available that fits ALICE frames IIRC. Mostly used for things like ammo cans. Any product that comes with a tube clamp can go right on. At reasonable weights I think it'd be comfortable. Never weighed my pack but I've had it loaded up in the past with game cams, batteries, water, a heavy jacket, and other junk. You will give out before the frame does. IIRC trappers even use them with just the pack or a bucket attached. Traps, chain, wire, baits in glass jars, drag weights, 3-5 gallon buckets of waxed dirt, heavy shit like that. ALICE packs are probably be fine for LARP purposes; I use mine on and off for various innawoods shit, often for packing various gear into or out of the woods, lots of which is heavy and/or bulky. The tensioned pad across your lower back can get sweaty depending on clothing and the season. Much better than a normal pack, though, as the rest of your back gets to breathe. The packs (not the frame) come in multiple sizes, too, BTW. Small, medium, large.

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>>65085207
>The packs (not the frame) come in multiple sizes, too, BTW. Small, medium, large.
Yup.

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>>65085517

>>65084963
But how will he function with no test?

Update on the Gilliam 1635. It's named after the OTHER John Gilliam.
>The "1635" mark etched into the strike face of every Model 1635 plate commemorates the arrival of John Gillam and Thomas Gillam aboard the ship George in 1635, from Gravesend, England. This date marks the beginning of nearly four centuries of documented American heritage for the Gilliam family in colonial Virginia. The eagle design embodies the American spirit of those early settlers who crossed the Atlantic to build new lives in the colonies that would become the United States. The shield represents protection and the star signifies excellence — values that have guided the Gilliam family through almost 400 years of American service ranging from the tobacco fields of colonial Virginia to modern ballistic protection systems.

Now has test reports and a webpage. So going off test reports it's 6.5-6.6lb ish and 0.98" thick without drop foam, 6.8lb and 1.15" thick with.
https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/model-1635-rf3-multi-curve-armor-plate

>>65086045
>400 years of American service ranging from the tobacco fields of colonial Virginia
SLAVE OWNERS!! BOYCOTT HUMAN TRAFFICKERS!!

>>65086092
>OH I WISH I WAS BORN IN THE LAND OF DROP FOAM
>OLD SHITPLATES THERE ARE NOT FORGOTTEN
>LOOK AWAY, LOOK AWAY, LOOK AWAY
Those RMA yankees don't have drop foam and darn ungood dishonest sizing!

Also the Gilliam Hellion 2lb RF1 plate from two weeks ago is now 2.5lb. 2lb version is out of stock.
https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/helion-rf1-multi-curve-ultra-lightweight-armor-plate

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Just an FYI, Adept Armor decided to test a crossbow and an ACH lost badly to both field tip and broadhead bolts at 400ft/s.
https://www.ade.pt/crossbow-bolts-vs-modern-armor-a-super-spike-threat-that-standards-dont-address/
It's been known for a while that IIIA soft armor is not rated to defeat stab threats (wrong standard, you need 0115.00 compliant armor for stabs), but it's interesting to see an ACH totally shit the bed like that. Crossbows and bows are essentially stab-threats-but-on-crack.

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>>65086315
Chain mail wins th day again.

Got the girl to stitch on a velcroW name on my M81 shooting jacket.tape. Fuck /pg/.

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>>65086393
Steel helmet chads also win again. Of course, the whole article is a puff piece for their Novasteel helmet (pic rel), so the usual stipulations apply. Armor does historically tend to underperform when it's tested by competitors, although the numbers do check out here and the science is solid.
I'd like to see the test redone but with an ECH. If the crossbow goes through that then shit's fucked and a case could genuinely be made for steel helmets with ceramic appliques.

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>>65086398
And file size...

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>>65086407
>puff piece for their Novasteel helmet
So soft armor over this would be a good anti spall trap?

>>65086432
Not quite for two reasons.
1. If the soft armor is loose in front of the breastplate, the spall will just "ride up" to your neck or other areas parallel to the armor face. The layers need to be adhered.
2. The novasteel breastplate does not have a PE layer on the backside, so "back spall" can occur and steel can detach from the rear and do the needful on the bullet's behalf. This is why steel plates have spall liner on the strike AND wear side.

The solution is using their RF1 applique plates that attach directly to the breastplate.
https://www.ade.pt/product/breastplate-up-armor/
This won't solve the backspall issue but does provide a PE layer in front, so ideally (emphasis on that) the steel should only be doing the BFD reduction work and not actually handling the round.

>>65086407
>a case could genuinely be made for steel helmets with ceramic appliques.
because of all the crossbow threats?
if someone wants to pen soft armor they would just use a rifle, there's no need to make handgun rated armor be crossbow rated
>exception might be police in no gun euro countries

>>65086432
you want a good padded gambison beneath your plate armor with a collar that covers your neck

>>65086462
>This won't solve the backspall issue but does provide a PE layer in front
the pe plate goes on the inside of the novasteal

>>65086471
>because of all the crossbow threats?
You can buy the crossbows necessary to replicate this feat for like $200-300, no FFL required (duh). They make less noise than a rifle and will easily clear IIIA soft armor if they can manhandle an ACH like that.
I know I'm reversing a position I had last thread, but this threat is far more likely than being engaged by .30-06 M2AP out of a .300 winmag, or 7.62x54R B-32 API, or M80A1, or M61. If we're rolling Level IV plates to stop those threats, why are we rolling helmets that lose hard to shit a 17 year old can buy at Cabela's right now?

>>65086408
disney made starwars cringe, even referencing the original trilogy feels dirty

>>65086480
>the pe plate goes on the inside of the novasteal
That would solve that problem then, thanks for the info.

So I'm thinking a proper "future" helmet would be titanium-PE hybrid. Titanium up front with PE behind. If you use Dyneema HB212 or 6000-series Spectra, blow that budget, then the weight increase versus a typical PE helmet should only be moderate and you'll get huge rewards in BFD reduction versus all-PE.

Helmets and shields, the two areas where steel and titanium still have a purpose for personal protection.

>>65086482
>but this threat is far more likely than being engaged by .30-06 M2AP out of a .300 winmag, or 7.62x54R B-32 API, or M80A1, or M61.
yes but ACH isnt rated for any of that
ACH and soft armor will lose to any 5.56 and most hunting rounds which are way more common than crossbows

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>>65086506
>yes but ACH isnt rated for any of that
Correct. You aren't getting any helmets rated for those unless you find the unicorns of unicorns - Ceradyne IMP/ACT helmets good for 7.62x51mm AP or Tencate overhelms good up to Level IV, and those are heavy as fuck (~9lb) so their drawbacks are excessive.
>ACH and soft armor will lose to any 5.56 and most hunting rounds
Indeed. However, it is VERY easy for an adversary to get a crossbow and they're cheap, which means they are "out there in the field" so to speak and still present a problem. Again, this is something you can buy from Cabela's for $300. If you can do it, everybody else can do it.
>which are way more common than crossbows
This is regional. 10-to-1 odds you're right in the city, since ARPs with M855 are dominant there, but it's going to be more mixed out in the sticks. A skilled hunter with a crossbow and thermal optic could be a dangerous threat in the right environment, for example.

Either way, this is another nail in the coffin for exclusively relying on IIIA soft. Pinnacle Armor was right about one thing, we need a higher soft armor rating in-between IIIA and III.

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Now this is interesting. MKU, hailing from Kampur India (great...) has unveiled a new rifle-rated helmet called the Doma 360 Ultra. It's rated for 5x 7.62x39 MSC, spread across the front, back, top, and sides. It is also rated for 7.62x51mm M80. The frontal applique available for it, which I think is boron carbide, is good for 7.62x39mm BZ API - which is a notably difficult threat for a helmet. Adept's applique sold by HHV is only good for M855.
Helmet is 3.74lb for a medium. Of course, buyer beware.
https://www.mku.com/en-gb/kavro-doma-360

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nova steel is so close to a rifle shield
they just need to extend this connector to hold a second shield on the otherside

I have no idea why they would advertise it with a pistol, maybe because the shields are not rifle rated

>>65086585
>lol it'd be a cock and balls with an AR and two shield nuts.
>I have no idea why they would advertise it with a pistol, maybe because the shields are not rifle rated
Could be that. I've been saying for ages Adept should make gunshields and actual proper shields. Their SiC-TiB2 could enable a reasonable weight M993 shield that could be hand-carried rather than on a trolley like the Tencate equivalents.

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>>65086492
>referencing the original trilogy
>red 5 standing by
Nope, I'm good with it.

>>65086672
Lando poster, I see the ORIGINAL RIZZ CLOAK is down to about sixty bucks not shipped.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809701716351.html
It can be used for uh... uh... blocking your thermal signature?

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>>65086701
>sixty bucks
Getting sooo close. Picrel @a yard sale today, $20 down from $30. Retail:~$150 https://www.spirithoods.com/collections/rave-festival-hood-hat-shawl/products/dire-wolf-faux-fur-grey-shawl

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>>65086818
Chicks dig it.

>>65086818
Dude just leave it in your cart for a week, adaptive coomer pricing will kick in and it'll be like $55.

Okay, so C-list China shop Hudi's Tactical now has a knockoff of HHV's helmets.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276998398221

Anon they're baaaaack OwO
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1523054056/tactical-ears-helmet-mecha-kawaii-tech?

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>>65086827
>>65086818
Excellent for a Roman Empire larp.

>>65087420
Horus Herussy at the Dollar Store
>>65087393
$19 for cat ears? Homes just make your own with duct tape and paper.

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>>65087420
Is that his dope pipe? Party on, dude!

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>>65086701
This is you when you buy one of those.

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Okay so where the fuq is a2? is he having a 216 hour goonathon?