Post gear, discuss gear.High Speed, Low Drag edition.Old: >>65373115
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, we repeatedly punched eachother in the balls. A2 said words. A tactical team asked for input on plates. Something about cloaks. and I got a new nickname!>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.176CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat:/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)Budget: Hesco L211 or T212Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HWElite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept EmperorElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
Also the Adept Emperor should be coming out this month, supposedly. If everything is as was said, it will be the lightest commercially available no-strings-attached Level IV plate by a whopping 0.3lb. Pic rel is the test report.
>>65381289>Budget: Protech 2120-5Do these actually stop M855A1?
>>65381509They do. Top of pic rel is from a Safariland spec sheet and lists M855A1 as one of its special threats.It's 5.8lb 10x12 and is comparable layup wise to the now discontinued RMA XRT, except it has more multi-hit at the expense of strike face strength. Six M80 versus just three. It is not rated to stop BZ API, M80A1, or 7.62x54R B-32 API.
Anyone have experience with the Bear customs Anymag?
>>65381557>Bear customs Anymag>$55 eachahhhhhhhhhhh
>>65381567$15 cheaper than SPUDs, and if you get two or more there's bundle deals. Two of the multicam blems are $73, the same basic price as a single SPUD
>>65381269>Old: >>65373115 #>101 new replies>since luckFu you whiney bitches.
>>65381580A Chinese SPUD is $17 a piece and can be found lower if you catch a deal.That's more an indictment of how overpriced a real SPUD is.
Each Protech XCAL LP is a promise. It is two hours at a dead end warehouse job. It is probably less money than you have in your wallet. It is probably the amount of money you can borrow from a friend and he'll forget all about it. A Protech X-CAL LP, much like a diamond ring to an honest woman, is a promise that your life is life and your eventual withering away into meaningless existence becomes less certain. To delay the inevitable, sudden or otherwise, is the most efficient use of your time in this fleeting mortal coil.To purchase a Protech XCAL LP is to fulfill your very function as a human. To purchase a Protech XCAL LP is to potentially get pussy, because a dead man in this violent world gets no pussy. Each Protech XCAL LP gives you the opportunity to spread your seed. A Protech XCAL LP delays the inevitable and prolongs the opportunity to smack that ass, to use your bone as the weapon. Love can indeed bloom on the battlefield, but only if you save your life before getting it on.Each Protech XCAL LP is a promise to your future unborn children. Think of the promise of days saved by the most affordable plates in the world. Think of the women you have yet to meet. Think of the pussy. Think of the Protech X-CAL LP.It's only $30 a plate man on gunjoker.
>>65381614what boolets can it stop?
>>65381632By itself it is rated for nothing. If backed by very specific soft armor packages from Safariland, which are better than bare minimum IIIA spec, it'll do a single shot of 7.62x51mm M80, 7.62x39 BZ API, 5.56 M855, or M193. If backed by a smaller variety of better panels it'll do 7.62x54R LPS.The guy on gunbroker is selling over 200 of these at blowout prices because they're situational 0.4" thick, 5.6lb lo-pro plates. Using these as general purpose plates or with insufficient soft armor is very risky.
>>65381653Thank you
And remember anons, chinamaxxing is based.
>>65381660Yeah no problem. As expressed in the copypasta, it is best looked at as an absolute last ditch option similar to the expired / recalled Hesco 4400s for $100/set Botach had months ago for anons with no money whatsoever.I think we had an anon last thread in an abusive marriage situation who would need to resort to such measures.
I had this weird vegetato pattern p83 5 years ago, it was so fucking kino and I miss it dearly and can't find one for sale anywhere, don't even remember the brand but I regret selling it.I love vegetato but there's so support at all for the pattern so I sold what I did have, anons got any leads on a vegetato p83?
>>65381663Taobao infographic is in progress, will be focused primarily on nylon gear since there're not a lot of armor options on there.
>>65381689Idk about vege specifically, but MFH made them in a bunch of camos like UCP and fleck; so probably them.
>>65381706Excellent! I've got a "Tai O Mall Ninja" infographic in the works, and did some work on the United Shield infographic. Gotta be honest, USI's lineup is very unimpressive. Definitely third fiddle among cop shop brands, behind Point Blank and Safariland, that's for sure. Their helmets and shields however are more level.Unrelated, I'm told Point Blank has a substantial secret armor lineup above plates like the 9900X. Will do some digging.
>>65381663I just bought a streamlight knockoff off ali gonna put it on a auto-shotty and see how fast I can kill it, gonna probably have to loctite it into position since the little positioning arm reportedly has shit/no threading but $50 instead of $400 is pretty decentwe'll see how it goes
>>65381663I will make my own.
>>65381834Make it 3a
>>65381761>Streamlight knockoffBuddy, I got my 88071 for like $140 two years ago. Just doing a quick check, they still cost about that. So what are you even doing?
>>65381834>>65381984Make it IIIB
>>65381663>paying $1000 for Chink platesJust buy some HESCOs at that point, what is even the point of this infographic?
>>65382671What Hescos are you getting for $1k/pair which weigh 5.1lb and stop M2AP or stop .50 BMG threats at all?
>>65382672You're not going to be going up against .50 BMG Timmy.
Taobao guide wip
>>65382675Then you misunderstand the point of such plates. The purpose of 12.7x108 B-32 API protection, much like .30-06 M2AP at a much lower level, is not that you'll actually encounter that round, it's that you are covered against anything BELOW that round.This .50 cal AP plate provides damn near absolute protection CONUS, and at 8.8lb, lighter than basic steel plates which lose to M193!>>65382680Very nice!
>>65382767Still need to add in more categories. More pouches, NVGs/Thermals, Optics, earpro, Plate carrier upgrades....Any suggestions for the guide?
>>65382825Try and hunt down climatic amortization panels (CAPs), cheap soft armor people can use as backers, shields, and then reserve the rest for your categories so you don't blow the 4MB limit.People sleep on CAPs / trauma pads a lot, but at the end of the day less backface deformation is better, especially when you deal in .50 cal stuff.Also if they have any very high powered lasers people can use as dazzlers that would be useful.
Speaking of, this fuddlore is making the rounds again.>I've asked EMS and retired 68W's about getting hit in the plate. And they said that the least they saw of people getting hit in their plate was massive internal bruising. And other things they saw was broken ribs, collapsed lungs, and internal bleeding.>So if you don't have a surgeon with you. Then you'll either suffocate or bleed to death, or even something worse. You will suffer and die very slowly essentially.
>>65381614How much is the backer? I still have my eye on the Protech 2120-5 from last thread. The trash sniper dreams of light special threat plates. I’ve got a bolt gun build in the works, so plates are purely funded by casino dollars
>>65383107>How much is the backer?For the X-CAL LPs? It's a list of various usually credential-blocked Safariland panels, like their Matrix lineup and others. You'll need to either get them second hand, in which case price is variable, or overkill using overstrength IIIA+ from guys like Omniprotex, in case you're looking at $550 for the pair of panels.There are cheapo IIIA backers on ebay but they are VERY SKETCHY on whether they'll make the X-Cal LPs make rating, especially the Chinese ones from Shanghai H Win.>I still have my eye on the Protech 2120-5 from last thread. Those are solid but are a touch heavy for M80 + M855A1.>so plates are purely funded by casino dollarsbased Philly Xcalmaxxer
>>65381984>>65382657Goning IIIc with a sewn in super sekrit map pocket and dagger sheath.
>>65382825NVG30s are g2g. I rocked them for quite a while before upgrading and had no complaints
>>65383140No... go with IVA, the rarest special pistol threat rating of them all!
>>65383147Did you go straight to analog or go with an updated digital like Nvg3rd or GNG2K first?
>>65383123I’ll probably end up with a set regardless but yeah the backer price is a bitch. Cost wise steers towards the 2120-5’s despite the weight but not sure can do much better given the price point.
>>65383221Yeah, the X-CAL LPs were meant for law enforcement who already had the requisite soft armor out the ass via department BVP-grant super 60% discount purchases. If you aren't a police department it's difficult to get them working to spec, not to mention they're strict do not drop and who knows how they've been handled in the past few years.>Cost wise steers towards the 2120-5’s despite the weight but not sure can do much better given the price point.You have more options if you're able and willing to hit up Asia.
>>65383230Yeah, we’ve talked about the infamous mailman special for similar plates before. Put out the milk n cookies for the mailman and all that.>More optionsHit me. I just got back from Asia. Jetlag his been a pain. Mainly looking to get something thin/lightish for sub $500. It’s a good delusion.
>>65383249Easy, Militech RF2 SiC for $400/pair plus $50 annoying fee. 4.34lb / 1.04" thick. Rated for M80 and M855A1, same deal as the Protech 2120-5, it's much lighter however because it uses Silicon Carbide and UHMWPE versus Aluminum Oxide and Fiberglass.>thinThen consult Gilliam's GARMS 2, 2+, or GARMS 3 SRT lineup. You will lose drop protection with these and they're alumina so won't be able to really match Militech on weight-performance.
Are Aim Sports optics any good? Hard to knock a 4x scope for $40 but I see some people saying they aren't even worth that.
>>65383354Man I had a SNIPER brand sniper scope with those rings and the fuckin' screws came stripped.
>>65383354>should I wipe my ass with $40 and burn the money?
>>65383354I'm not a snob but stuff like that is junk
>>65383509Cuh that's a Protech X-CAL LP and then most of the shipping fee
>>65383594Not counting the backers cuh. I’m back to considering UHMWPE options. M855? Guess I’ll just die.
>>65383648Cuh, how about a pair of Hesco 3611Cs from OmegaMars or another surp outfit for dirt cheap? 3.9lb a plate, M855 and M80!
>>65383724Not bad, not bad. Cheaper than m210’s even
>>65383818The 3611Cs are down bad versus M855A1 however and are thicker, no free lunch, but have a multi-hit advantage versus the M210 against garden variety threats and are much better versus 7.62x51mm M80.The distinction is that the 3611C is more PE backer, thinner ceramic. M210 is thicker ceramic strike face, thinner backer.I guess one could experiment with IIIA soft behind the 3611Cs to try and shore it up against A1 but that's a crapshoot.
>>65383876So the issue with M855A1 and the 3611C is BFD, not pass-throughs?
>>65383912lol no, the thinking is that the soft armor backer might catch the small steel penetrator that gets through the plate, which is what the other guy said: a crapshoot.
>>65383876Interesting to know. Im torn on stopping a1 when it comes to a list of needs vs wants. Perfect world? Absolutely. Conus? Ehhh it helps sleep at night. Even as far as bare bones UHMWPE I lean towards it being more than enough. The m855 argument could be made, but I think 62gr bonded and various flavors of 77gr are far more common. That being said I have seen people who exclusively buy muh green tip, so the chance of being unwillingly penetrated is never 0.
>>65383952Green tip is everywhere.M855A1, eh. It was rare in 2018, but everybody was saying that it would get more and more common. People expected it would be something like M855 in 2026. But they were wrong. It's rarer than ever and costs 5-10x more than M855!
>>65381269So what the fuck happened exactly last thread?
>>65383964It was fun, I guess. Schizo drive-by, lol.
>>65383963It is available but given the choice I see far more people stocking up on m193. Same cuz it’s cheaper economies apply. There are outliers sure. The a1 gravy train was doomed from the start. >>65383964Seething Velcro enthusiast upset by lack of Velcro discussion. There was some legit heavy angry breathing behind that keyboard
>>65383983available but quite rare is how I'd put it> Seething Velcro enthusiast upset by lack of Velcro discussionThere's really only so much you can say about Velcro. Especially now that designs are stagnant and the Chinks have caught up. It's kind of becoming homogeneous.
>>65383999Agree much>velcroWake me when we get kydex plate carriers held together with silicon cummerbunds meant to hold flexible plates. In the meantime, let the armor autism flow.
>>65383912No, the strike face is too thin. You need a thicker strike face to handle stronger penetrators. You need a thicker backer to catch fragments and catch more energetic, defeated rounds. The M210 has a stronger strike face than the 3611C, hence why it can defeat M855A1, but the backer is too thin for it to handle basic .308 reliably. As other anon said, if you do run enough backer you can catch M855A1 but exactly how much is a total unknown.>>65383950It would be more efficient to experiment with adding robust IIIA behind an M210, since Hesco's SRTs are fundamentally just IVs with thinned to hell backers. >>65383952DocGKR's suggestion is that M80 + M855 + M193 is your minimum, if near a military base raise to M855A1 + M80A1. It makes sense to have more than one pair of plates. Ideally three.1. Less than overt.2. Overt generalist.3. Contingency high-threat protection.Per DocGKR, who is a heavily credentialed dude, if you're doing high threat you want modern AP protection. Tungsten. Generally easier for cops and feds to get those plates than regular joes though.>>65383963Green tip is everywhere, but in urban situations you'll probably only need to face it out of an ARP.
How bad did I fuck up? I bought a couple of side plates the other day without doing as much research as I probably should have. They're the LTC 26227-8 and I bought them thinking that 2.6lb per plate aint that bad when paired with my LTC 19513 plates but when looking at other plate weights I realized they're really heavy. I just wanted something that could stop m855a1 without spending a lot. I guess I can cope and just say they're for when I'm stationary and I'll only use my front and back plates when I'm running around.
>>65384037Not terrible. Bit of an awkward setup since your sides are Level IV but your front and back are III plus M855A1, but they're LTC and do work. Same plate mfg as USSOCOM. Their civilian lineup is stuck in 2006 but it is more than workable.Better call would have been surplus MSAPs unless the fact those are 5.5x6" and not 6x6 bothers you. I got a pair of B-32 API quasi-IV MSAPs for probably about what you paid for those and they're a pound lighter.
>>65383999>Velcro enthusiastWould it be weird if I wanted my gf to wear loop underware while I wore hook underwear so that when I was pounding her it went >SCHWECK!, SCHWECK!, SCHWECK!I hope someone can help, because I don't want to be weird.
>>65384057Yeah the side plates being higher is funny. I can cancel the order for a 20% fee so i might do that if I find something I like enough to cancel it for. The other option that fits is the Highcom 3S9 Level 3++ but I've been told highcom isnt to be trusted. Where did you get the B-32 API quasi-IV MSAPs at if they cover m855a1 and are light I might just get those
>>65384032Two threads ago I was playing around with the idea of layering an old AR500 IIIA steel plate on top of one of those Italian III PE ones. I think the consensus was that it was effectively a very thick/heavy III+/RF2, but that it would work against M855 due to the steel strike face.
>>65384070Don't do the 3S9s. The 3S9 and 3S9M are noob traps and if you check them on areal density, because Highcom plays games with sizing like a motherfucker, the Hesco 4601 and 4101 are plainly superior in just about every single way.>Where did you get the B-32 API quasi-IV MSAPEbay! You can also find em on tacswap, gunbroker, facebook marketplace, the works. Mine are the tan "Tactical" version Buff tested. There are three flavors. BZ API, tac. standalone B-32 API, and cool guy black MSAPs rated for BZ API and tungsten core 5.56 M995.> if they cover m855a1BZ API and M855A1 are sidegrades, so the only MSAPs which will cover A1 are the B-32 API ones from LTC, BAE, or Ceradyne, and the black M995 rated ones mfg'd by Ceradyne.Mine are about 1.6lb a pop which is much better than your 2.6lb.I would rather you not piss the 20% cancellation fee. Just get these LTCs and upgrade to MSAPs or something else down the road when a really good pair shows up. There are more MSAP flavors than the ones I mentioned.
>>65384075Yeah I remember that convo. The theory is sound especially since AR500 did just about that with the discontinued A3 plate, which IIRC was 4.5mm steel in front of mystery meat UHMWPE. They played some games with sizing on that one but it was probably their best product, which says nothing because AR500 is a bunch of scumbags. Also it cost entirely too much and weighed too much for a lack of A1 protection. Buff caught some shit actually for trying to rizz people on that plate.
>>65384093>because Highcom plays games with sizing like a motherfuckerHehehe, how's that working out for them? Time to check on my investments.Highcoom... Noooooo!!!
>>65384120Okay well one of their dealers just caught some rape charges cut them some slack.
The Highcom 3S22M RF2 and 4S20M "Lightweight IV" better be outstanding ass plates or that company is cooked.Without Apex's goons up the ass on reddit there isn't much selling them over Hesco except the six times Hesco had NIJ suspensions, yes, six times.1. 44002. 46003. 34104. 36105. 3K10 (Mexico only licensed model)6. 4K10 (Mexico only licensed model)
>>65384032THREE PL8 and here I’m torn on 1 set. I find DocGKR’s takes to be weird at times, but do agree on the base 3. Like bafr minimum im more concerned about 62gr bonded and otm than a1 or even 855 itself. I still think he bungled his take on 5.7, but admittedly biased.>>65384061You’d need a backer to prevent chafing.>>65384115No input here but can we do that with those xcals?
>>65384139>4S20M "Lightweight IV"The only results for this online are /gq/ lmaooooThey're very secretive about it. It's probably gonna suck. Time to short Highcoom's $0.08 stock.
>>65384171Kind of like how Hesco was (is) about their SC3812 and 4520, aka SECRET FLAGSHIP PLATES YO.>>65384169>THREE PL8 and here I’m torn on 1 setAnother perk to going Chinese, easier to buy multiple sets on a budget.>I find DocGKR’s takes to be weird at times, but do agree on the base 3Oh I agree. He recommended a steel-PE plate called the AMI TAC3S like he owed it rent money.He was a major 6.8 SPC salesman but that cartridge did have merit in a time when it seemed like plates were going to surpass 5.56 entirely. We know that's not the case now, but he didn't in 2008.>I still think he bungled his take on 5.7, but admittedly biased.Depends on the loading.>No input here but can we do that with those xcalsWouldn't be a very good solution at all, but yes.
>>65384169Well, the Italian III PEs are a legit old-spec level III, no steel resistance (not even 7.62x39 MSC) but will fully stop multiple M80 ball hits. I see no reason why that setup wouldn't work in theory, although the weight/thickness will be ridiculous.
>>65384203Oh it'd work for sure. the X-CAL LPs need very good IIIA to work, and the ballistic gap between even the best IIIA+ and a basic Level III plate is big enough to drive a semi through.
>>65384206Sounds good. Now the problem is where to source good-condition Italian III PEs, SG sold out long ago so it's getting scarce. I scored a bunch but am semi out of the armor scene for now, and even if I was still buying I don't trust the copsurp X-CALs to not have been dropped by a rookie armorer at some point.
>>65384212>copsurp X-CALs to not have been dropped by a rookie armorer at some point.Oh they probably were, lol. A lot of them are from 2017-2019. If people were getting brand new Highcom 4SAS4s in the mail, freshly fucked up, then the X-CALs are def a gamble.But in the words of the NIJ, less effective armor is better than none at all.
>>65384214Honestly I think you'd be better off with the AR500 IIIA on top of the Italian III PE. At least that's possibly got some multi-hit capability.
>>65382656I meant surefire my badI have a hlx on my rifle it's solid
>>65384257In which the X-CAL LP does indeed sidegrade steel! A true mark of... a dud.I dunno what Protech was thinking with that one honestly, given the 9812, DT306C-HW, and 2230 / 2240 show they do know what they're doing.
>>65384275Think it was more of a bean-counter business decision than a technical one? Like they had the soft armor already and realized they could make a cheap ceramic strike face to go on top of it, no matter how weak of an SRT it was?
>>65384282I dunno, it's definitely a cheap plate. Alumina face and a very weak fiberglass backer if anything. However, it's not NIJ cert and therefore cannot be bought for 50% off using BVP grants, ergo cops had to pay sticker with maybe 10-15% off LE / bulk discount, so it probably didn't sell well and that's why there is a shitload of surplus LPs from Accurate Law Enforcement, Venture, Catalyst, et al.Come to think of it the 2230 didn't sell well either.
Actually, more on that, that IS one Doc Roberts-ism that didn't age well. Contrary to him calling IV stupid, there really isn't a market for tungsten IV+ protection, or IV+ in general even, other than IVs which also meet Level III. Gilliam can't sell the 8002s for shit, PRIME's 0949 is damn rare, and there's like... ten... people who run the Adept Colossus with no law enforcement customers despite the fact it does deliver apparently quite reliable 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP protection. The LTC 28601 is also a footnote despite a standing DocGKR recommendation. XSAPIs in general remain unpopular and ESAPIs more than sufficient. In fact the military's ratings have generally trended down over time, with the new LSAPI being a 3.5lb BZ API plate.
>>65384291Well, it wouldn't be the first time an MBA-holding "executive" made an absolutely retarded business decision because they had no idea of anything outside their corner office. I mean look at all the failed tech companies over the last 20 years, nearly always taken down by some new CEO or C-suite type with nothing but a shiny MBA running them into the ground because they have no clue what the market/customers want or what their company actually does.
>>65384334Non-MBA’s are always jealous of our grift. The point of the degree isn’t to know things. It’s to convince others that we do and hang onto payroll just long enough to bankroll more fake certifications until we can find a better paying gig to repeat the process. Obligatory circle-back, kpi, wheelhouse, sop, EOD, EOB, EOW.
>>65384334Hesco does interestingly not have that problem despite having a revolving door of CEOs. They've got a bad track record of NIJ suspensions, but they make things right when they goof and they're banging out LE / fed contracts and have for years. The 4800 and U210 are FBI plates. 4600 / 4600LVC, likely now 4601LV with the DEA. SC3812 / FXR-Bravo some go fast contract. It's the armor guys who "know" the industry who struggle to make sales. Stealth Armor, Adept, Gilliam. All niche. Bain at Stealth in particular has been in the game since 1993 and he ain't got shit to show for it.As for Protech, the 2230 was a weird plate at the time (who the hell is shooting M2AP over 3,510ft/s at cops? Gangbangers got .30-378?) but it has aged very well given modern hypervelocity ammo concerns. Still, more expensive than the 4600 and 1.5lb heavier wasn't great.
>>65384275Looking at the IIIA requirements, it really feels like protech reps were expected to shill these to LE by saying "outfit the entire department with our soft armor and we can give you a package of these relatively cheap, thin and lightweight plates that stop shots from AKs and ARs you can wear with it"
>>65384361Would make sense. Sell the soft armor on a thin contract margin and throw the plates in as extra. It really is the Highcom 4SAS4 but SRT edition, which is a bad omen for anyone actually running these.Definitely a very last ditch option. I don't know what would be even more of a last resort, other than bottom dollar steel like Highcom AR500 or TacScorp's equivalent, or homemade / homebrew combo solutions like discussed earlier, or maybe mix and matching 20 year old copsurps off Botach Surplus.They have a CPC TC4C on there for a benjamin which is tempting, because that model reportedly had some capability against Swiss P AP by virtue of using a doped Alumina ceramic.
Here's that CPC TC4C if anyone wants it. It was made in May 2006 (bruh) and is therefore pre-0101.06 and likely has no drop protection. Triple curve, 8lb flat for a 10x12. Also found the original sales page and had the old Paraclete one saved from back when we were digging up details on the SOF ESAPIs again.https://surplus.botach.com/protective-products-ppi-tc4c-2092-level-iv-single-body-armor-plate-10x12-police-trade/https://web.archive.org/web/20081203164937/http://www.cerpro.com/html/ap_standalone.htmAs for the Swiss P AP claim, it has the sketchy "at 0 meters" language a lot of IVs did back in the day. No velocity given so I dunno what to make of that other than it's a crapshoot.
Pic rel here is the TC4C's spec from back in 2002. It inexplicably gained 1.5lb from 2002 to 2006, along with becoming the "2092", so they're different plates. The weight increase does add some credibility to the Swiss P AP claim, especially since 8lb is actually pretty heavy for a no-drop 0101.04 Alumina-Aramid plate. PPI acquired CPC in the mid-late 00s so the branding is a non-issue.We should put it in front of an Italian Level III PE plate.
>>65384037>>65384057>>65384070>>65384093Update, the guy said I can swap it out for another plate set no charge. My options are LTC 23707 for $750 which doesnt have m855a1 protection or shell out 1.2k for LTC 26300
>>65384490>Update, the guy said I can swap it out for another plate set no charge.Apex or Hoplite? Just curious because it sounds like he's trying to get you to double dip.>My options are LTC 23707 for $750To replace the 19513s or your sides? Another anon was literally had by the 23707s last thread. It's not a bad plate but is way overpriced for an inferior Hesco 3611C / 3612 / 3810 competitor.>or shell out 1.2k for LTC 26300Not even the LTC 26310? Curious how long these have been sitting on the shelf since it's an older model now.If sides, not bad, but if front + back this is strictly inferior to the Hesco 4800.Unrelated, United Shield infographic. I'll come back to this one later and flesh it out with other stuff.
>>65384508Its apex, if he tries anything funny i would just do a chargeback but i bought my ltc 19513's (front and back) through him and i was happy with that. All those plates i was talking about were side plates.
>>65383354You'd get more bang for your buck buying repro eotechs on alibaba
>>65384508Also what do you mean by>had by the 23707ssounds like he got shot kek
>>65384394Is that a fucking shoeprint on it? If so hard pass lmao.
>>65384514Ah, great, your armor dealer just bailed outta jail again a few days ago, so he can fulfill your order!1. The 23707 is fine but it's basically an outdated Hesco 3810 counterpart. I'd go with these if you can rule out A1.>Rule of thumb: LTC is basically two companies in a trenchcoat. Civilian / LE division is half ass and like Highcom is on cruise control with a dated lineup. Military / fed division is badass but not quite par with BAE / top shelf Integris and cannot approach golden age Ceradyne's wizard shit.2. The 26300 is boron carbide and interestingly will much more likely lose to M995 versus your current IVs if that is a concern, but probably not. Much lighter though. They are IV, which means if you eventually upgrade to gucci plates like 4800s you'll match. My MSAPs also concede M995 because they use a boron carbide strike face too. >>65384524Nah, he just got ripped off by Hoplite and way overpaid for a pair of plates that get mogged by 3611Cs.
>>65384557Try and talk them down to thirty dollars or something they've been trying to sell this one single plate for like half a year.
>>65382680I added this to the emporium and split the Chinese infographics off into their own section since there's now five
>>65385471I don't think anyone uses these anon.
>>65385501>3,972 viewshuh
Reposting from last thread since it's a good list:>CheapestProtech 2150-5s are 200$ a pair from Hudson gunner coming in at 5.8lbs 10x12>Want lighter plates?Hesco 3611Cs (expired warranty) and L211 are around 400$ on tacswap right now.>Want level 4?Paraclete 9900x are 5ish lbs and are going for 400-500 on tacswap. You can also luck out on a pair of ESAPIs that fell of a truck for around the same price.>cheap IVYou can get Paraclete 10079s from Botach for $200 if you need cheap IV too. Superior to the 2014Gs Hudsongunner has.https://surplus.botach.com/point-blank-paraclete-100079-level-iv-triple-curve-torso-armor-plate-10-x-12-shooter-s-cut-police-trade/
>>65385528>Protech 2150-5what’s the downside? I’m seeing a free lunch.
>>65385805It's 5.8lb for M80 + M855A1, which is relatively heavy for the protection level.
>>65385903Ouch maybe it’s back to Xcal, epoxy, and dreams.
Is rem oil a decent cleaner? I’ve never used a spray before, but I got some for free from a friend moving out. I used it a few times on some of my pistols and rifles. It was pretty convenient but I’ve heard conflicting opinions on rem oil in particular.
>>65385938To be fair, barely more than the Hesco 3411, but that's stronger and can do 7.62x39 BZ API, and about 0.6lb more than the LTC 19513.
>>65385944Yeah I use it all the time
Botach has more ballistic shields in stock. $250-300 for decent Protech IIIA.https://surplus.botach.com/protech-intruder-hs-tactical-shield-with-viewport-police-trade/https://surplus.botach.com/protech-intruder-tactical-shield-with-viewport-dual-light-system-police-trade/
>>65385944Is “okay” i prefer ballistol tho>>65385951>look at this pl8>it weighs 100lbs and gets owned by a1 and costs $800Every single time. I dream of a free lunch.
>>65386137Sorry, the "no free lunch in armor" rule is absolute. There are no exceptions. Closest anyone got to a free lunch are the Blackbeard TSA plates for $200 a few years ago, which actually compare to the $2k a set LTC 28595, the Paraclete 9900X's, and the Protech 2230s. Even then there are compromises and gambles.
So the copsurp 2230 supply is about exhausted, in the next year or so copsurp "expired" Protech 2240s should start showing up so keep the eyes peeled for those. It's an improved model but they are super secretive about it, which is a very strong sign it's an excellent plate.My guess is that they replaced the aramid backer with UHMWPE, so it's probably same performance, 7lb or below.
>>65386146>Blackbeard TSA plates for $200 a few years agoThose were so based. Blackbeard plates in a $60 eBay LBX carrier were THE BEST bang for your buck of all time. This was /gq/ in 2020 or 2021 IIRC
>>65386316An excellent deal I missed out on. tHe story goes they were a failed Point Blank bid for the GEN-5B SOCOM TSA-Swimmer contract, but lost because they were heavier than the 28570 / VelSys TSA. Bitch ass LTC dealers were trying to run interference on it and said it was BZ API only.
>>65386146>>65386316>>65386406Interestingly enough Blackbeard still has an online store but it's mostly unfinished ceramic blanks and the odd square batch test plate (backed with fiberglass for that 1970s/RMA feel!). Basically it's a way to clear out factory detritus from whatever .gov/.mil contract armor they're currently making, and make a buck at the same time. The square batch testing plates are really interesting since they're super thick/heavy at like almost an inch and over 8 pounds for both III+ and IV, but they're stupidly cheap at about a hundred bucks.
>>65386418>over 8 pounds for both III+ and IV, but they're stupidly cheap at about a hundred bucks.Not bad for a cheapo option, especially if they're both III and IV because cheap IVs often fail III.
>>65385944Cleaning nah, safariland clp is king. General wipe downs and oiling I love it. It's very viscous, so a little goes a long way.
>>65386439Nearly-perfect loaner/backup plate, really. Another downside is the rectangular 10x12" profile all of the test plates share since you don't need shooter's cut for something you strap into a test rig and shoot, so shouldering a rifle is a bit more difficult. Like the TSA bid plates, it's an odd duck but very workable and cheap to boot.
>>65386484Yeah I don't see anything "wrong" with it. The used 2014Gs and Paraclete 10079s are weak in the multi-hit department, this isn't, and the only bad news is that it isn't hip to be square.As said before the Hesco 4403 needs an upgrade, it's simultaneously under attack as the "default budget Level IV" from better, lighter Chinese plates and cheaper used copsurps and these.
Can Gilliam's ICW plates be backed with any panels that meet IIIA standards, or is it like the funny protech plates where you need backers so expensive it negates the cost savings
>>65386770NO FREE LUNCH
>>65386879No shit nigga the cost is backing it with IIIA armor. Well, that and not stopping M80A1.
>>65386770 #I re-reviewed the table and it appears the following is the case.1. GARMS 1 only needs the soft armor for BFD reduction purposes, so it goes below 44mm against all threats.2. GARMS 2 needs soft armor for M80 and M855. 3. GARMS 2+ is useless standalone and needs soft armor.4. He can't decide if GARMS 3 is standalone or ICW today. Check back tomorrow he might change the specs again.As for the soft armor needed, it just seems to be the cheapo white meat UHMWPE panels he sells so you can proxy with any good IIIA or HG2 that meets basic specs if you don't wanna use his.>>65386899 #M80A1 is an awkward threat, you'd need an old school 7.62x51mm M61 AP rated plate like GEN-II BALCS Ceradynes, or B-32 API rated plates like the LTC 28595.There aren't really many plates dedicated to M855A1 + M80A1, so you have to go overboard with M61, B-32, or all the way with M2AP
Interesting thing from Gilliam. In custom project plates, they can offer a carbon fiber composite "trauma reducer plate" component which reduces BFD by 30% or more.https://www.gilliamarms.com/pages/trauma-reducer-technologyThis is the same principle as the Russian "TAP" panels except integrated into the plate. Could help for a .50 BMG custom plate or something.
Also, NEW SHIT ALERT:Adept Armor has launched three new products this month, exactly as anticipated, but with a twist! The titanium Mantis is now... good?1. The Bulletfoam trauma pad / Level II, 0.54lb a plate.2. The Adept Mantis has been updated with a better forged titanium strike face. It is now 5.2lb and gains M855A1 capability, which is great actually, plus the following:>Mantis has demonstrated survivability against .50 BMG M33 Ball in a severe-impact test. This is not a conventional protection rating — BFD under this threat exceeds the 44 mm standard limit and the test should be understood as a structural toughness demonstration, not a wearer-survivability claim.Bad news is that the M855A1 test report is "on request" for now. It's now about $1,600 a set which is fuckin' pricey BUT is only 0.7" thick and immune to drops.3. And of course, the 4.55lb $1,480 a plate... Level IV... ADEPT... EMPEROR.https://www.ade.pt/product/mantis-titanium-armor-plate/
>>65387111Could the TRP then be used to remove the need for soft armor if used with a ICW plate?
>>65387247Depends on the plate. Yes for the GARMS 1, no for the rest since they need the backer to actually catch fragments and not just reduce BFD.Russian Project LEAF TAP plates, per Rusanon, are 1lb carbon fiber plates which reduce NIJ BFD limit (44mm) plates from China, used by Russians due to shortages, to sub-17mm BFD as required by GOST. The principle is sound, but they offer no ballistic enhancement. Just BFD reduction.The Gilliam TRP is built into the plate, you have to ask for it special. Would be interesting to see if he can add them to some 8002s for extreme protection.
>>65381269Im looking for a scout type mount that will extend streamlight protac a bit forward past the handguard that uses a female picatinny rail to attach to the handguard and a male picatinny rail to attach the flashlight.Does such a product exist?
>>65387190Adept Mantis + CAP = Serban killer at much reduced thickness/weight? I don't think it's the next EDUN IV+++ but maybe it'll top the Serban's M33 stopping.
>>65387307They do advertise you can back the Mantis with the new Bulletfoam panel to significantly reduce BFD, but I dunno how bad the actual BFD number is for the Mantis vs M33.Also, they ARE working on a Level IV titanium-PE plate. This is a prelude to that plate, and that'll be the serban killer me thinks.
>>65381269Is anyone buying these weird, super niche plates?
>>65387340Which ones do you define as super niche? If you mean the old Mantis, probably not since it was 5.45lb and struggles with M855.
>>65381269In terms of molle rows/columns, what are the dimensions of these pouches? I want to try to fit it on something that has two separate molle sections. one on top and one on bottom.
>>65387428surp filb pouch
Need a pouch for a rangefinder. About 4.5"x3"x1.25". Looking for molle, don't care too much about color but green or coyote is preferable.
>>65388016You don't need a range finder. But did you know Protech has a sale on shields right now? What plates are you using?
>>65388016Idogear GP square pouch? 6x6x2.4https://www.idogear.com/products/idogear-airsoft-molle-pouch-bag-tooling-storage-pack-square-accessory-pouch-35105>>65388049>imitation crab
>>65387304Have you already looked at everything Arisaka has?>Does such a product exist?Impossible to prove a negative so yes. Paging a2...
>>>65388253>Have you already looked at everything Arisaka has?I have! The closest thing I found was the Mossie Midnight 1913 FSB Mount but it attaches to an A2 FSB. have an mlok rail with built in pic rails at 12, 3, 6, and 9.My barrel is 16in with a 13.5 rail to expose the rifle gas controls knobI make a mock up of what Im talking about. The female pic rail would be on the opposite side
>>65387190And here is the page for the Adept Emperor, right on schedule.It's about $200 a set more expensive than Hesco 4800s on sale (you have to shop around a little) and I'm not seeing anything about multi-hit, while the 4800 does 3x BZ API, M80, or M855A1 with NIJ spacing, so it's a sidegrade.Drop protection however checks out. Well, lightest Level IV on the market AND the Diamond Age N1 finally releasing after half a decade.https://www.ade.pt/product/emperor/
>>65388275Ah shit this is like a math problem. You could do a normal picatinny flashlight mount plus a rail extender / riser but it'll wing out from the rifle.
>>65388275TDi - R-EX Picatinny Extension Rail
>>65388309NTA but nice clutch
>>65388309>TDi - R-EX Picatinny Extension RailThat's EXACTLY what Ive been looking for!Thanks!
>>65388332/gq/ saves the day! huzzah!This general IS big enough for armor and everything else.>also the google results for "Adept Emperor" are literally just /gq/ threads, they uh might wanna hire some SEO guys on that.
>>65388588>everything elseNEW LED LIGHTS! WOOHOO! Motion sensing on/off, daisy chainable, USB or battery pack powered. These make for great undercounter tactical lighting.
>>65388775Also, I take big shits. Feels good, man.
>>65388780>I take big shitsOn the same day we bear witness to the Adept Emperor, we bear witness also to the Anal Emperor! Ave Shitsar!>>65388775Very nice.>more armorSo I've come to the conclusion Adept's lineup is still rather schizophrenic and seems to "argue with itself."The Mantis G2's entire sell is that it is immune to drops. Okay, well it's the same weight as the now 5.2lb Archon (not gonna ask how that just lost half a pound, my guess is they made the nominal 10x12 more nominal) and lacks Level IV / M995 defeat entirely.The Archon is also considerably cheaper than the Mantis. The Emperor argues with the Colossus, because the Colossus says Level IV is obsolete and the Emperor is Level IV... so it's obsolete.Also there's a disconnect with the new nova titanium being rated for fuck all above basic 9x19mm but the plates being rated for exotic threats like AP4 / DVC-12 / 7N39. They need updated ceramic appliques ASAP.
Also just an FYI, the Emperor's secret to how it's lighter than the 4800 (4.55lb vs 4.9lb 10x12) is that it uses a Ti+TiN doped boron carbide face rather than straight B4C. It's actually not a super new plate, it's apparently been out a few years but has been credential-blocked until today. Adept also advised they are working on a new Al+AlN doped B4C version which should provide "an Emperor-class plate" with the same tungsten 5.56 / 5.45 / 5.8 defeat as the Archon. In other words, they are working on a MUCH more impressive 2.0 version and if you're not willing to spend 3k now, then 3k later on plates then I'd advise just waiting for the Super Emperor down the road, or maybe whatever Hesco and Integris have brewing, especially since the 4800 is 11 years old and overdue for a backer update.
>>65388849>They need updated ceramic appliques ASAP.Yeah and also ones that fit the ACH. Cheap ACH+applique setups would basically MOG all other helmets, if you think about it
>>65388780Okay, those are cool
>>65388899Agreed. Offer three appliques that work with ACHs or most "IIIA" helmets with fine print that they actually meet 0101.06's velocity numbers but helmet form.1. Updated Amorphoid-PE applique good for M80 + M855. This should be about 0.9lb given their current SiC applique is a pound flat.2. TiB2-SiC applique good for A1 and M995 / 7N39 / DVC-12, mimicking the Archon but sans Level IV and higher energy threats, 1.5lb.3. B4C-Ti+TiN Emperor Applique which provides Level IV but helmet edition. Probably 2lb with sufficient ivoryguard trauma padding so the M2AP doesn't steal your chromosomes.Then offer all appliques SLAAP style and also full Tencate style overhelmet style so you have full coverage.Actually, shit, full cut the Adept Nova Titanium and raise to "IIIB" 7.62x25 Tok steel core, select 5.7, and 12 gauge 3" slug protection so it's the same as the Warmag NP550. Much better for modern war. Then it will work with the appliques!
>65388944>also the SiC applique they do currently have is M855 and MSC only so you'd probably wanna throw some carbon fiber into the Amorphoid applique or something as a BFD reducer vs M80, raise to 1.3lb on further review.
>>65388902You could put a set in your trunk, under your hood, bathroom for tactical night shitting, screen the face with red mylar for silent running. These take AA batts for wireless (shown) and come with a usb wall adapter. The remote battery pack will support hurricane mode off-the-grid ops and turn on with contactless wave of the hand.
>>65389021I like it, man. > screen the face with red mylar for silent running.Pretty good idea. > These take AA batts for wireless (shown) and come with a usb wall adapter. You could probably hook them up to one of these in picrel if you really want to stay off the grid
>>65389021You see, even though I am armor autistic, I must consneed your autism is preparing for everyday situations, while my 'tism is about things that will probably never happen.
>>65389039>hook them up to one of theseDon't get me started.
>>65389040>consneed your autism is preparing for everyday situationsWe all face our challenges to our best abilities.
>>65389095I face mine by accepting the inevitability of $2,000/set 6.6lb titanium-PE IVs that do the same thing as a $900/set Hesco 4601 but can be thrown out of a plane and still work.
>>65389229okay I'm thinking based. >>65389040one of the greatest /gq/ moments of the past 6 years was when somebody posted a long list of shit for prepping innawoods and it turned into a huge fight over doxycycline. (IIRC some "medic" started seething and shrieking that you NEED a prescription!) But does anybody still have that list? If not I can try to find it.
>>65389315>based titaniumAdept needs to come down on price for this new titanium shit. $800 a pop is too much money.>first aidI was there, lol, it was when I was making the first aid infographic and people were throwing balls at walls. Will find it in desuarchive.
>>65389315>shrieking that you NEED a prescription!)Every good prepper knons you can buy antibiotics in the pet store without a 'script. The point is HAVING them bedore you need them. And then they just expire. Diabetics are deadmen walking. They are already expired, they just won't admit it.
>be me>glasses wearer >inb4 ngmiAre Rothco OTG goggles worth it or should I save up for ESS goggles and modify them so they fit over my glasses?>rothcoThey claim to be ANSI rated and Copper Jacket TV did a test where he shot it with birdshot and it held up.>linkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU6alF65NugIm concerned that shrapnel has a higher velocity so his test isn't really representative of the if theose goggles can protect again faster moving bits of lead.>Prescription inserts I want to ability to remove and don the goggles as I need them. I dont want to have to mess around with stowing and putting my glasses one everytime I need goggles.
>>65389472> And then they just expireMake sure they're in blister packaging, keep them in a vacuum-sealed bag in the dark, and make sure they don't get too hot. They will literally last forever.
>>65389545I think there's something wrong with Lames' elbow, bro
>>65389315Okay desuarchive is on the $5.99 dial up plan for seniors or their webhost got blown up by a Ukrainian drone or something. In any case, if you search excedrin or peptic ulcers it should come up.
>>65389545>should I save up for ESS goggles and modify themMod your eyes. Just get the Lasik, it's a literal miracle.
>>65389653Make sure the doc isn't a fuckup though, there are horror stories
>>65389653>LASIKHad several eye doctors tell me not a good candidate for it so that is unfortunately not an option. I agree with >>65389663Not sure I would even if I could. Heard about a cop who killed himself because the headaches were so bad.
>>65389653Never ask a woman her age, a man his salary, or an optometrist about the suicide rate for Lasik patients
>>65389663>>65389653>>65389675Hears the storyhttps://www.today.com/health/news/police-officer-suicide-lasik-complications-rcna208790
>>65389679^Here's
>>65389667Damn, that sucks.
Anyone want a disaster? Promag now has a $90 120 round AR drum.https://themagshack.com/shop/rifle-magazines/ar-15-magazines/promag-ar-15-223-5-56-120-round-drum-magazine/
>>65389667>Had several eye doctors tell me not a good candidate for it so that is unfortunately not an option.I would trust thier medical expertise. I was blind and know I am Diogenese.>>65389679>meanwhile, that one guy...People don't need lasik to be losers.
>>65390042This man lives dangerously. This man lifts cannonballs. He robs peter to pay paul. He's a venetian trader. He puts sugar in his wine. He buys mags from Promag and goes into debt for $3,000 plates from Adept. He gives his family X-CAL LPs. He's a one if you know what I mean.
>meanwhile for their 100 round drum>>65390036>I have to hit the>I have to hit the mag release button on my psa ar15 to insert the mag and the bolt carrier does not catch the bullet properly and jam. It in between the mag and the bolt carrier. It has not cycled one round properly.UNEQUAL
I'm looking for pant recs. I need camo and water resistant for waterfowl hunting maybe less than $200.I look at brands like Kuiu, skre and first lite and I don't get what makes their shit 5x more valuable than $100 amazon randoms.
>>65390048>skips the diogenes reference I could live in a lvl4 ceramic jar, for instance. I could wander the land naked with I2 tubes looking for a wise man, for instance.
>>65390048Sounds unfathomably based, ngl
>>65390058>what makes their shit 5x more valuable than $100 amazon randoms.Return policy. Amazon only has a 100% no questions asked, free shipping (usually) return policy. Kuiu has a return policy, so... NM. I s t ill like Kuiu, but check Bowning or LL Bean.
>>65390066plate philosopher>>65390068MARTIAL AESTHETIC
I want to make an ar22 sbr like this one. This one I found on some maryland gun-owners forum, and the guy said the company that made some of the parts isnt in business anymore. I have a silencer already, now I need the gun. Any suggestions for parts?
>>65390087THAT'S IT, I'M GONNA, START, USING, TOO, MANY, COMMAS!
>>65390218ADEPT'S NEW, UNEQUAL, UNPRECEDENTED, EMPEROR, THE PLATE.
>>65390224Legit.
is it shit?
>>65390319>school ready sale on a platecarrierreal aliexpress fedposting hours
>>65390351china is clowning on us
>>65390319Probably comparable to a YAKEDA. Good enough for Antifa story time enforcers, will probably blow out at a really inconvenient time.>>65390367Jawnwudun
Alright, so adept is saying you can use the Bulletfoam ballistic trauma pad behind any plate. It is 0.52" thick. If you run it behind their Colossus you're at 1.72", who has platebags that deep? https://www.ade.pt/product/bulletfoam-plate/
>>65390402Eh, I use trauma pads from AR500 when I bought my first plate carrier back in 2019. I don't think they're too much thinner than that and I've never had an issue with getting both my plates and trauma pad to fit.
what is the best manufacturer/retailer for reproduction M81 Woodland BDUs?
>>65390466m65 or do you want crye clones?
>>65390468M65, please.
>>65390367That's some Son Sue/Bruce Ree shit right there.
>>65390378>probably blow out at a really inconvenient time.Lol, he doesn't carry duck tape and a white hanky..
>>65390466Propper thru Venture.
>>65390512best is probably some boutique be warned that they're chiniseum but helikon-tex makes decent m65s I bought a pair for my boomer dad who does a ton of work in the woods and he absolutely loves them, wears them all the time and they have survived so far which is pretty impressive because he is hacking trails and cutting down trees
>>65390319Yes.If you're gonna buy chinkshit, get the good stuff.>>65382680
>>65390444Those are 0.25" except for the newer Darkmatter ones. I have a pair and keep them for drop pro purposes.
>>65390571>>65390573Thank you for your guidance. I appreciate it greatly.
Thoughts on Nitecore batteries?
>>65390599>the newer Darkmatter ones.I saw those. They literally weigh a pound, don't they? That's crazy, pure insanity. They don't even stop bullets. It's like Gen-1 D3O that was ultra-heavy.
>>65391149Very overpriced Vapcell N40 counterpart.>>65391160AR500's dark matter pads are 0.25" and 0.55lb, Dark Matter branded pads are 1lb and 0.35" thick. Max BFD reduction on the Dark Matter branded pads is 32% which is nice (reduces 40mm BFD to 27.2mm) but a good CAP, TAP, or integrated TRP will best it... not to mention IIIA soft backers often weigh less and also provide ballistic assistance.
Adept's new GEN2 Mantis is also bumming a test report from the 5.65lb GEN1 Mantis in 2020, showing 3x 7.62x51mm M80 stopped.First hit BFD is 41.2mm, second 39.5mm, third 37.8mm on a fresh unconditioned plate. That's poor, given NIJ failure point is 44mm or above. The same plate also does 40mm BFD first hit against 5.56 M855 in a separate, side plate report, which is trash given a lighter, similar price LTC 19513 does 3x M855A1 with about 20mm or below.I'm not liking you have to ask for the new A1 report on the new, actually A1 rated Mantis. This tells me the numbers aren't super.
>>65391149>ThoughtsBrando.https://18650battery.com/
>>65391357>Very overpricedAmpace JP30s are dirt cheap on Taobao
>>65391383Nice! But do they have a 4Ah version?
>>65391357Right isn't two pounds a HELL of a high price to pay for a 32% BFD reduction?
>>65391388Yeah. Although idk how well these ones will fare.
>>65391431You don't get good returns with trauma pads in terms of weight-to-BFD-reduction until you step up to the Russian-style CAPs or TAPs. Project LEAF's carbon fiber, 0.22" thick, 1.1lb TAP claims to reduce 7.62x54R B-32 API BFS to literally three millimeters when used with a chinesium SiC-PE plate. It brutally mogs this dark matter pad but is unobtanium outside Russia. The point is that you can take any NIJ plate and bring it down to GOST sub-17mm BFD, which dramatically reduces behind armor blunt trauma. Gilliam's TRP is fundamentally the same technique but integrated into the plate and not quite as extreme.I don't know why Adept made the Bulletfoam a conventional trauma pad instead of a CAP that affixes to the back of a platebag with a DIY retrofit kit if yours doesn't already have velcro. This would improve ventilation and general performance. An Ivoryguard ballistic CAP would be outstanding.>>65391440If you can keep the discharge rate low then probably not a bad option. Vapcell's N40 and N41 fall apart too in a high discharge application.
Also lol'ing at this blurb on the Emperor's page:>M2 AP defeated at 2914 ft/s (above the 2880 ft/s required velocity) with 22.83 mm backface deformation against clay backing — roughly half the 44 mm NIJ limit.The NIJ required velocity is 2,910ft/s (2,880ft/s+-30), not 2,880 straight. IIRC going off Buffman's 4403 test the far cheaper, badly outdated 4403 scored around 30mm for in-spec M2AP but shit the bed against M2AP just 30-50ft/s above spec.Also this blurb from the titanium Mantis' page:>It is the RF2+ specialist in the Adept lineup — a rifle plate built for users who worry about non-standard, harsh, or unusually punishing impact profiles, and who want a plate that does not become a paperweight after a single bad drop.In which Adept concedes their ceramic plates all become a paperweight after a single bad drop? Even the Colossus?I ain't paying three big ones for plates with poor drop pro no sirree.
>>65391381Or https://liionwholesale.com
>>65390199The only part in that build that comes from a single supplier is the bolt, and CMMG is very much still in business
>>65392172NTA but 5 payments of #37.99 with SEZZLE seems damn good ngl
>>65392248And twelve payments of $250 for a pair of Emperors. Sooner or later we're gonna have repo companies for gear.
Just bought some paraclete 9900s, should I add some IIIA backers? I know they're stand alone but the intricacies of armor escape me
>>65392405Are they 9900ICs, 9900SAs, or 9900Xs? The ICs need good IIIA and the other two are standalone, just double checking which version you have.> I know they're stand alone but the intricacies of armor escape meThe soft armor serves as additional backer for standalone plates, which reduces backface deformation and also raises safety margin a bit, so your ass might not be grass if the M2AP is 50ft/s too hot, for instance, or you're up against something weird.
>do modest hike with plate carrier>wake up 3 days later feeling like my sternum got folded in halfThis happened before, and its happened again, what is going on here? Does this go away?
>>65392538Do some back exercises or switch to lighter plates
>>65392538Your plate carrier was probably too tight, which can make it "feel" lighter, but can stress out and strain your diaphragm. Don't over-tighten your carrier.
>>65392680so its better to let it bang around a little bit? or more padding?>>65392615Noted
>>65392689More padding wouldn't hurt, just keep it light. The important thing is that it shouldn't restrict your breathing in any way. Put your carrier on, take a DEEP breath and expand your chest as far as it'll go. If your carrier is pushing back on you, loosen it until it doesn't. Because when you're hiking, you'll be breathing deep.
Hey local reddit guy your reddit post about RMA's 10x12 really being 9x11 fell on deaf ears bro.
Are Nalgene still the go to for hand held hydration? Already have a camelbak but would like a bottle as well.
>>65392718damn we got homelander over here
>>65392718My baby is 15 months now but i got another one coming so looking forward to the whole bottle dance again.
>>65392729cuh needs baby platecarrier
>>65392718nalgenes are good cause you can put boiling water in it and warm up your sleeping bag
>>65392731https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu9cpRYQmTc
The dude at Gilliam Arms dropped the price on the 2.2lb all-PE GARMS 1 plate to $109 a plate, offers open. It's good for M193 and lead core 5.56 standalone, needs IIIA (theirs or better) for 7.62x39 MSC or 7.62x51 M80, and is no go against M855.https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/garms-1-icw-rf1
>>65392746Babby needs a Protech X-CAL LP
>>65392729Just line your nursery in cheap plates 2x thick. NO MORE DRIVE BY FRETS N STRESS.
>>65392926TWO HUNDRED X-CAL LPs CUHTIE EM TOGETHERPLATES ON A ROPE
Does anyone operate a mesh network instead of radios? I am fooling around with some cheapo radios and a friend of mine just runs meshtastic. Am I fucked up?
>>65393177>mesh network instead of radioDifferent use cases. Mesh radios are great if you need a complex, self healing, data network to quickly disseminate information and keep up in a dynamic environment. They're really cool with what they can do, but they have some drawbacks, namely range and emissions footprint. Basically you're limited to LOS which limits your range unless you have a node up high, and due to the emissions footprint are very easy to triangulate or jam by virtue of being a continously transmitted signal. >cheapo radiosTraditional radios lack native encryption or data streaming, but it's hard to beat the range, reliability, and simplicity of an analog radio for simple voice comms. It really depends on your needs and capabilities. Brushbeater has a ton of material on how to get the most out of a Baofeng UV5R, worth a read if that's all you can get>Am I fucked up?Depends; what are you using it for, and what do you need?
>>65392854is the baby an approved backer for it though?
>>65393392Anon Jr isn't special threat tested IIIA. Backface deformation gonna cause a 4th trimester abortion.I recommend bro buys the last remaining Protech 2230 on Gunbroker. Lowball that guy for $120 and that way baby is protected by an UNEQUAL built in trauma pad.
>>65393429Someone send AJ over to Buffman, I wanna see what he can throw at it
>>65393579Damn cuh I didn't know Epstein ran an armor company. That babby is nominally sized.
>>65393392>approvedNo they couldn't pass testing.
>>65393707They took Steinaland AJ-IIIA up to Epstein Labs and he was too deformed after the drop, submersion, and tumbling tests to proceed with six .44 magAnon will need to find a better backer
Apparently shit might be going down with Midwest Armor. Unrelated, John Sun at Apex Armor crashed his porsche and a pepper ball grenade he had with him went off in his face. Fire dept had to flush his eyes out. He tried to blame the crash on some sprinklers.The list of reputable armor vendors thins...
>>65394391>Unrelated, John Sun at Apex Armor crashed his porsche and a pepper ball grenade he had with him went off in his faceAgain? You're joking.> Apparently shit might be going down with Midwest ArmorWeren't they one of those "place your order and wait 10 months" drop-shippers?
>his baby has cheat ringslmao
>>65394395Nah, same crash as before. Green porsche flipped. The news about the pepper ball grenade just broke, so this is the second time one of his grenades has affected the Sun family.Wait, can we buy these grenades? Is bro crashing his car with store inventory? Those plates ain't drop tested for that...>Weren't they one of those "place your order and wait 10 months" drop-shippers?Dude there are people on reddit who have been waiting since 2024 for helmets. Last post just got deleted.Nothing concrete yet, but there are rumors of bankruptcy. Wouldn't be surprising, they've been robbing peter to pay paul on order fulfillment for ages and their operation is a fraction of the size it was. Remember their old exclusive Tencates like the FM4?
>>65394432RMA baby
Speaking of RMA, their new revolutionary GEN2 not-actually-10x12 1165s are on deep discount, $400 a pair either SAPI or shooters if you select the We the People covered versions.https://rmadefense.com/store/body-armor/level-iv-body-armor/lightweight-level-4-plates-model-1165/These are light, but the 10x12 is not actually the stated size and really is comparable to a SAPI Small, coverage-wise, which a lot of redditors and arfcom boomers seem to be missing. This is also the older gen version and has no drop protection. The SAPI M is the stated size (9.5x12.5) however, with variance, and at 6.1lb you'd be better served with Paraclete 9900Xs off Tacswap for 5.5lb a pop, about $500/set. That's a boron carbide plate and can legitimately get those weights, while RMA's have to cheat and cut corners because they're using alumina. The funny bit is that the 1165s are only about $50/set more than the much heavier fiberglass-backed 1155s, which tells me they're sitting on dead inventory.Running strict no-drop plates is risky given undetectable potential shipping damage. Running no drop plates that are undersized is double risky.
How are official drop tests performed? I'm assuming its just a straight drop from X". Is that on its face, edge or corner? Are no drop plates that fragile you have to baby them while using them? If you take a tumble out of a stopped vehicle and fall flat on your back would that compromise the plate? Or a dolphin dive forwards to cover landing on your stomach? Does gear or the carrier add a layer of protection for the plates structure?
>>65394657Also curious about this. I'd assume that the carrier provides a bit more protection but probably not that much.
>>65394657>How are official drop tests performed?Four foot drop twice, on the face, onto concrete with 10lb P-BFS clay on the back, plate is secured by belt or strap. If ICW then the plate is drop tested with the requisite soft armor behind it.>Is that on its face, edge or corner?Always on the face.>Are no drop plates that fragile you have to baby them while using them?It depends on plate construction. Sometimes no drop plates have enough of a crack arrestor that they can withstand light falls and hard bumps. Buffman was not allowed to subject the old no-drop RMA 1165 to any drop testing whatsoever and the new version now has drop foam, so one must assume, for safety purposes, the old version is strict DO NOT drop.>If you take a tumble out of a stopped vehicle and fall flat on your back would that compromise the plate?You would have to x-ray to guarantee condition afterwards. Otherwise depends on plate construction and I can't give you an all-cases answer because of that. If a plate just barely passes requirements when factory fresh and you drop it, all bets are off. The 1165 is super light for an Alumina-PE IV at 6.1lb SAPI M, and it should be assumed it is a minimum-margin design. This is NOT exclusive to RMA. The Hesco 4800LV (ICW IIIA version) is the same way and a far more expensive plate, and I suspect the Adept Emperor as well. Even top shelf Ceradynes are do-not-drop, like the SAEC, MH3s, and SOF ESAPIs.>Or a dolphin dive forwards to cover landing on your stomach?Same as above.>Does gear or the carrier add a layer of protection for the plates structure?Of course. It is RMA's official position that you can add basic drop pro to the 1165 by putting their trauma pad IN FRONT of the plate rather than behind. The carrier, mags, etc can also help.>>65394678Really the drop test isn't that hard. A 5-10mm foam trauma pad or cut up yoga mat will suffice if you need drop pro. The frontal foam layer on my 2230s is actually pretty thin.
>>65394593>not-actually-10x12What's the actual size of these? Website says 9.5x11.5, but I'm having a hard time believing that. Are they like 9.3x11.3?
>>65394723It's 9.5x11.5 nominal with bottom corner cuts, same exact trick as Highcom's not-10x12, with a given variance of +-0.125" or 0.125lb. Variances often work against the buyer, especially with RMA given the 1192 boondoggle, so the plates can be as small as 9.375x11.375 and still be in spec. Again, keep in mind the bottom corner cuts. You're basically taking the same reduction from a rectangular full cut to a normal shooters and then doing it again on the bottom. Can make a huge difference.Ultimately, given the bottom corner cutouts, you get less coverage than SAPI Small, and Highcom's charts even admit their 10x12s are lighter than Smalls (RMA doesn't offer SAPI S much these days, probably because it would raise eyebrows since a small is 8.75x11.75 and a 10x12 would somehow be lighter).
>>65394714If a plate passes the 4ft weighted drop twice what is the expectation to do another drop or even several more? I'm sure it matters heavily on the construction and material but are there any plates that would just shrug the test off continuously? Or are all plates expected to fail the test if done enough times? >steel need not apply
>>65394771>If a plate passes the 4ft weighted drop twice what is the expectation to do another drop or even several more?There is no general expectation. Some companies have higher internal testing but most are by the book and either go strictly by NIJ and not a hair more, like Hesco, or game "independently testing to NIJ" like RMA.LTC has a 10 drop internal protocol according to Apex but he's been caught blowing smoke on a lot of shit, from exaggerating plate ratings like B-32 API on the 3S9M or calling the LTC 28590 Level IV to, most egregiously, calling the LTC 28601 both standalone (it isn't) and rated for any AP threats below .50 BMG when it's really an FBI contract XSAPI from 2008 which needs IIIA soft and is rated for nothing tougher than M993 at 3,100ft/s, max. His credibility is plainly shot to shit.>I'm sure it matters heavily on the construction and material but are there any plates that would just shrug the test off continuously?That's the exact selling point behind the titanium-PE Adept Mantis. The weight of an LTC 19513, and the same exact M80 + M855A1 rating, but the durability of steel. $1,600 for a pair however is rough and the BFD on the Mantis line is always pretty high.For a different example, my Protech 2230s are "high headroom" IVs rated for M2AP over 3,510ft/s when fresh, so you would likely have to drop them numerous times to compromise them to fail against M2AP at 2,910ft/s, because of both their drop foam and their 600ft/s+ safety margin.>Or are all plates expected to fail the test if done enough times?Steel-PE and titanium-PE plates are effectively drop-immune within reason, all ceramics however will eventually shit the bed if dropped indefinitely due to microfracturing.
A couple of rules of thumb for drop protection:1. PE, steel, and titanium plates are drop immune. Layered steel-PE and titanium-PE can still suffer from adhesive failure / delamination and PE in general can fail from excessive heat depending on the specific blend, so they are not immune to environmental effects and still must be stored properly.2. NIJ 0101.06 adopted in 2008 is the first NIJ iteration with an actual drop protocol. All pre-2008 plates should be assumed no-drop until proven otherwise. If pre-2005 you may also have to check for Zylon backers, especially with very high performance plates.3. LTC and other guys like Highcom have considerable 0101.04 holdout lineups. For LTC, plates like the 26148 and many others sold by Bulletproofme, Hoplite, and Apex. For Highcom, the 4SAS7, 4S16, 4SSS2, etc.4. All of Hesco's LV plates omit drop protection.5. if a Level IV is 0.75" or below, drop protection is automatically suspect or there's another underlying issue, like zero multi hit by way of not including a crack arresting layer.6. If a Level III ceramic or an M80-capable SRT like the VelSys PBZSA is under 0.65" or so, drop protection is suspect.7. SRTs are outside NIJ's domain and are not guaranteed to be drop proofed due to their focus on low profile.8. Appearance on the 0101.06 or 0101.07 compliant product lists is the only guarantee plates are truly drop-proofed. Even then, NIJ is not a ballbusting test. It is really a bare minimum kinda standard.9. Testing reports omit drop tests all the time.
>>65394933Are the contract overrun esapis on bulletproofme rev g or newer?
>>65395046Negative, they're old model and only do one M2AP and then a second 60% of the time. They are not rated for G's 3x M2AP requirements and have no 5.56 M995 req at all.He also sells the cheaper Alumina or SiC "heavy" ESAPIs which meet same requirements but are cheaper / heavier. These appeared in military service, about fifteen to twenty years ago, with a blue cover instead of green or black. Not subject to WC-Core induced B4C amorphization failure, so they'll probably do better versus M995, but are still badly outperformed by G-onward's SiC-B4C hybrid face.Rule of thumb - pure boron carbide (B4C) plates generally suck against tungsten threats. Bulletproofme is a longstanding LTC dealer though and can special order newer gen / better plates if you ask nicely and LTC is willing to deal.
>>65394933What's the proper amount of caution to take with DND plates? Kind of a continuation of >>65386770, I already have copsurp IIIA panels for something "low profile" so an SRT plate that stops M855A1 and M80 at under 0.4 inches (plus backer) for $400/set is an attractive proposition, but that "under .4 inches" is sans drop protection padding (padded version is more like 0.6"). It's not even about cost, they're listed at the same price, it's purely chasing thickness
>>65395113>What's the proper amount of caution to take with DND platesDepends on plate construction and whether there's a crack arrestor. If no (the usual tell is that the plate is advertised specifically as single strike, hello X-CAL LP / AP!) then absolutely do not drop onto a hard surface. Buff dropped the LPs and they put on an awful performance even with decent soft armor.If there is a crack arrestor, and Gilliam loves his crack... arrestors, they can handle bumps and basic administrative handling but a four foot drop onto concrete or another hard surface may compromise them.>so an SRT plate that stops M855A1 and M80 at under 0.4 inches (plus backer) for $400/set is an attractive propositionThe problem here is that DND plates can be damaged by the mail if improperly packaged and/or said package gets turbomurdered by an angry postal worker, and that happens as seen with anons getting bad 4SAS4s back during that shitshow. Part of that however is that Highcom was shitting out 4SAS4s with no QC, as seen also with plates failing tap , so the adhesive was also bad, and water damaged labels on brand new plates.I don't know how Gilliam packages his plates, but it's a chinesium component garage operation more or less, so it's up to you whether you wanna play the risks with the DND thinned version. Tap and torque do not always work. The only way to truly guarantee plate condition is radiology like how the military does it.
>>65395138>only way to truly guarantee plate condition is radiologyDo you schedule your plate an appointment at a local lab?
>>65395138GSA Auctions regularly has security X-ray machines up for bidding. There's one with a current $25 bid up.
>>65395159That's how some people do it, lol. The military has specialized machines for this but they also do tap + torque for field tests, and ESAPIs are built very well so this isn't a huge problem unless they're clearly roached. X-raying or CT scanning a plate is gonna be expensive, so it doesn't make sense to do it on a pair of $30 X-CAL LPs. Whoever bought the $5,000 pair of Ceradyne SAECs probably should, though.Usually if a plate has been grossly mishandled there will be visible signs of damage, and a GOOD plate with adequate safety margin should be able to still do its job even if the face has microfractures undetectable by torque.
And a side bar, you can have a do-no-drop 0101.04 and/or DND plate with safety margin, but the expectation remains it will only meet full reqs if in mint condition.For example, Ceradyne made an extremely expensive Level IV+ plate called the AA4 UP around 2002. It weighed 7.4lb for a 10x12 and was rated for six hits of M2AP at over 4,000ft/s on the same plate, or single hit .50 BMG ball. NIJ spec now is 2,910ft/s, so it had an absolutely absurd 1,000ft/s+ margin, plus multi hit. Downside was doped boron carbide face, so it was stupidly expensive, and a suspected Zylon or Z-SHIELD (zylon laminate) backer, so the plate despite being a beast fresh would automatically bomb the 0101.06 conditioning protocol. The protocol is specifically tailored to detect and fail fragile Zylon-like materials.It could likely have stopped M2AP at or above NIJ spec if conditioning were limited to just the double drop, however, and the plate was otherwise magically somehow factory fresh.Second example, Hesco makes a plate called the 4601LV which is just an ICW IIIA version of the 4601 with the drop pro removed. The 4601 per Buff's test has roughly 100ft/s margin over NIJ spec, so the 4601LV can be roughed up somewhat (moreso than the no-margin 4800LV or 4403LV) and still function, but it is still technically do not drop.
Adept's page for the Mantis just 404'd. Same for the Emperor. Goddamn, discontinued after three days? That's faster than Gilliam even.https://www.ade.pt/product/mantis-titanium-armor-plate/https://www.ade.pt/product/emperor/(hopefully pulled just for website reworking)
>>65395318> (hopefully pulled just for website reworking)Seems that way>>65394723> Second example, Hesco makes a plate called the 4601LV which is just an ICW IIIA version of the 4601 with the drop pro removed. The 4601 per Buff's test has roughly 100ft/s margin over NIJ spec, so the 4601LV can be roughed up somewhat (moreso than the no-margin 4800LV or 4403LV) and still function, but it is still technically do not drop.Do you think that Hesco are going to certify the 4600 to .07?>>65395171Okay, that's a pretty based thing to have in your garage.
>>65395361> garageSpeaking of which, is it still possible to build a $30 ballistic plate with fiberglass and ceramic tile from Home Depot? RF2, baby.Pic unrelated
>>65395361>4600Not that one, it was permanently removed from 0101.06 for unresolved safety concerns. If you mean the 4601, odds are likely yes since they had the 4403 recertified as the RF3-400 day 1 of the NIJ 0101.07 CPL releasing. It'll probably be called the RF3-600. On the other hand, since RF1 drops the 7.62x51mm M80 multi hit requirement from 6x to 3x, they could thin out the dual III + IV 4601 and save some weight.The NIJ's plan is apparently to run both standards, with 0101.06 considered closed & legacy but FIT follow up tests ongoing, until 2031 or so and then drop 0101.06 entirely once everybody is on board with 0101.07. The NIJ moves EXTREMELY slow and while new certs are ongoing the 0101.07 CPL is still tiny.I do have a prediction that .50 BMG M2AP-rated plates will be relatively normalized in the next five years and that'll become at least de facto RF4. The purpose isn't that you'll actually get blasted by a .50 like an ISIS execution video, but that you will have almost absolute protection against smaller calibers.
>>65395363Maybe on a good day? I remember LIBAAnon was making homebrew ceramic pellet plates which stopped M993 most of the time but that was years ago
>>65393177I do want to get into that. I'm envisioning a solar-powered fallback internet on the meshnet which operates outside THE SYSTEM, NEO.
>>65389315It was this thread brah, desuarchive finally paid their hosting bill or some shit.https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/63602279/
>>65395586Good find archivebro.
>>65395598No problem. Now tell me you're not taking EXCEDRIN OR ADVIL DUAL ACTION YOU FUCK.
>>65395600Calm down, I have a 'script.
I’m seriously looking into getting night vision. Probably gonna go with Gen 2.1- Can I use my scoped rifle with it?2- What’s the best and cheapest setup (without getting into crap territory) to actually hold it on my head?
>>653965581. Technically yes, you just have to focus your nods to the scope. Light transmission would suck.2. FMA bump, Argus G24. Sotac g24s suck.
>>65396204BUT IT'S NOT FOR THE RIGHT PAIN CONDITION and MAY EXPIRE, causing PEPTIC ULCERS!
>>65391357>Vapcell N40Speaking of...N41s and N40s are also, dirt cheap on Taobao.
>>65397143Forgot pic
>>65397152https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2It6MlC9vyY
>>65395318Just checked, both are still down.Gotta be honest the new Mantis is probably a blunder. You can't charge $1,600 a pair for a plate which is much heavier than and probably performs worse unconditioned versus a $400 pair of M855A1-rated 4.3lb Militech RF2 SiCs, and the Mantis' only saving grace is that you can drop it dozens of times. That isn't worth 2.4lb extra a pair and 4x the price.As for the Emperor, if it's truly single strike then the 4800 is IMO still a better plate. Annoying how an eleven year old no safety margin Hesco is still the best commercially available lightweight IV.
>>65397159Yeah.Good reviews and specs check out. There's always the chance of counterfeits of course, but the vendor's pretty legit.
>>65397271Yeah I dunno... no free lunch and all.If a golden rule with batteries is to not buy lithium ion off aliexpress, which is fairly well charted at this point and taobao is still the wild west but east...Anyone got a good rec for a fireproof battery container? Preferably UL standard compliant.
>>65397397After a bit of searching, Vapcell has an official store on Taobao.N41s are 2$F66s are 5$
>>65397506Alright that's pretty good. Should stock up and build some battery packs.
$7,500 all-PE shield from Armored Republic. 20x34 and 22lb, Level III.https://www.ar500armor.com/products/echo-shield/Is this a deal? Absolutely not.
>>65396602Based. Thanks anon. About how much can I expect to spend on some Gen 2’s?Just skimming around, the prices don’t seem to be nearly as bad as Gen 3.
Buffman's at it again. >Steel core body armor is known for it's robustness over some composite armor systems. It's main detraction has been an issue with bullet velocity, specifically 55gr FMJ, M193 in 5.56 NATO. AR500 Armor (Armored Republic) has introduced a special blend of steel and Titanium in the A4 model to combat not only M193, but a slew of other threats including M80A1 in 7.62 NATO. This demo/evaluation aims to test the limits of the A4 design.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjOrolkrni4AR500 A4 steel-titanium hybrid plate test. The plate is advertised 8.75lb with the fraglock coating at $250 a plate, Buff's came in at 9.4lb coated going off the table. Light coated is advertised 8lb flat, Buff's 8.4lb so there is some funny business with the advertised weights. Even then, shit the bed bad on M855A1. Either the advertised weights are lowballs or Buff got sent ringers. Thicknesses and performance suggest the former.Anyway, 9.4lb for a $250 steel plate that amazingly... handles M80A1 is hilariously... shit. 1.7lb heavier than a Hesco 4403 which stops M2AP or multi-hit M855A1 and is cheaper. 1.9lb heavier than a Protech 2230 which stops M2AP at 3,510ft/s and can be found $300/set copsurp on a good day.Same price as a pair of sub-6lb Paraclete 9900Xs on Tacswap which match the 4403. This plate sucks.He really strains his credibility when he affiliates up with these Armored Republic jokers.
>>65398057uhh am I missing something or does it look like there's no titanium there at all? It's just a steel plate?
>>65398148It's a steel-titanium alloy... allegedly... maybe. It isn't a bi-layer design where it would be titanium front or steel back.It is possible AR500, now Armored Republic, is totally bullshitting and it's just a higher-quality steel plate. Tamiami or another one of the old import-export plate shops got caught doing something similar in the mid-00s but this has been scrubbed.Apparently AR500 is in bad shape financially.>AR500 Armor was sold towards the end of 2021. It was sold to their current CEO David Reece. David leveraged the hell out of it and over paid tremendously for this business. The debt load is killing this business and it has downsized dramatically from their 24000 SF facility to about 8000 SF. He has his kid Logan running the marketing and members of his church congregation filling most of the other positions.
>>65398026NTA but if you shop $1-1.5k gets you a mono
>>65398026Homeboy, new Gen 2s will cost you the same if not more than good surplus gen 3s. OMNI 6s, 7s, and 8s are normally seen for $1,800-2,200 for a PVS-14, and you can get poverty duals for between $3,500-4,800 with those same tubes.The *only* downside to buying used is unknown hours/wear on the unit. >But whuh about the white phosphorus?It's white phosphor you dolt, and the white/green doesn't matter if you have duals. Frens don't let frens buy chinese tubes.
>>65398281>Frens don't let frens buy chinese tubes.Is this merited or is this the last stand of the no china gang?
>>65398302Gen 2 magnifiers by their inherent construction will never perform as well as gen 3 tubes. If >>65398026 is not a canada-cuck, as can get gen 3 tubes, then he should. For the same price or even less by buying surplus OMNI tubes, there is zero argument for chinese gen 2 tubes.
>>65398310Interesting. Could you make an infographic on this? It appears you know the market well.
>>65396602Does anything Sotac sell work? It looks like pot metal across the board.
I have autism
>>65398594Ailunce HD2 is good. You've got a good set of ESBIs?
>>65398799>You've got a good set of ESBIs?Sometimes the asians at gun shows don't know what they have. Got a pair of smalls for $100
>>65398197Based. I found a few on eBay used that seemed good around that price.>>65398281>Frens don't let frens buy Chinese tubesThanks fren.So in terms of something like pic rel, what am I looking at here? From what I’ve seen Gen 3 is pretty expensive. I could see myself doing like 3 grand for duals minus the helmet rig, but I don’t wanna really go much over that if possible.
>>65398953Tacswap will be your friend, stay away from eBay as any seller who has sold expensive items before knows that eBay takes 15-20% of all sales, so their prices are inflated.So, OMNI refers to the US militaries standards for night vision. 'Omni 6' 'Omni 7' 'Omni 8' are all progressive generations of *minimum* standards for military acceptance of tubes. All three generations are on the Gen 3 hardware, with progressively better minimums per generation. I have seen OMNI 5's as Gen 3 before, but all OMNI 4's and older, *I think*, are gen 2 so not worth it no matter how cheap.As an aside, you basically will not find blemish free dual tubes with gen 3 intensifiers for under $3,800. Those days have gone. Four thousand to five thousand is the ball park for entry level, gen 3 duals. By searching "omni" on Tacswap right now will find you six results for PVS-14's under 2k, and six different sets of duals from $3,850 to $4,300
>>65397113Bro, pills are pills. Just take what ever, it's ll fine man.
>>65397185>Annoying how an eleven year old no safety margin Hesco is still the best commercially available lightweight IV.I may have to getm8ne out of the closet and check what they are. I mean beside a panic buy, useless waste of money, like my radios, Sept2 helmets and camo wizard hat. I literally hate you fuuckers worse than cannibals. But you are still better than Ruskies.
>>65399210Explain from a pharmacodynamics perspective, precisely what happens “faster” when you take both Paracetamol and Ibuprofen. You can’t, because it doesn’t. The two drugs just work on different pathways and you should take them for different ailments.I hope you end up on dialysis
>>65399005I had no idea about all that and the Omni thing. Thank you a lot anon. You are indeed a true fren.I think I’ll start off by ordering one- which btw I had no idea about that site either. Someone has an Omni 7 for 1,900.
>>65399275Not a bad start. While not the most Jewish way to do it, you can easily get two OMNI 7 PVS-14s as money allows, then as money allows later you can go to a custom night vision builder to have them install the image intensifiers into a dual tube housing at basically just the cost of the housing and labor. The steps could be as follows;>Step 1Buy Helmet, PVS-14, Dovetail mount and dovetail J-arm for PVS-14. All in for about $3,000 or less>Step 2Buy another PVS-14 that looks to be of similar quality, from the same OMNI series or better, and then a dual PVS-14 bridge. Bridges cost between $200-300, depending on used or new, what model etc. About $5,800 now>Step 3Take the two PVS-14's you have, send them to a company like Custom Night Vision or Steele Industries, pay for a housing upgrade and service, which could be as low as $1,000 to as high as $3,000 depending on which housing you want. About $6,800-8,800 now for dual Gen 3's, that you are already familiar with and in a housing of your choice for less than financing a $6,000 set new from some company.>Option Step 4Sell off the PVS-14 housings, J-Arm, and Dual 14 bridge for about $1,000 total
>>65399484>3k>Jumps to 5.8kI can't the math, it was supposed to be 5.3k, which makes step three range from 6.3 to 8.3k
>>65398448The 60$ G24 clones they have are pot metal and ass. Some of their pricier stuff looks better. Their cadex mount clones are allegedly pretty good.
>>65399218The blue pills are for your boner bro. The yellow pills are for her boner.
>>65397113Taking ibuprofen/paracetamol combination tablets for mild pain is like emptying an entire gallon jug of water into a cup every time you're thirsty.
>>65399993Peptic. Ulcers.>>65399217Well as long as you didn't buy that stuffwith payment plans from Affirm, ShopPay, Credova, or another debtmaxx provider you're good.There's a lot of people who robbed Peter to pay Paul on LTC 28595s or Hesco 4800s back during COVID who should have been paying their bills. When things came due they sold their plates at a loss since they were, to your point, just sitting in closets.
>>65400008The Sept2 helms were ~$40/ea from CTD and all I need. Last youtube I saw, 9mm sails right thru, so a "feel good" intimidation accessory, at best. At least now I have a place to hot glue a bundled horse tail. Warning, I larp for keeps.
WHO IS GONNA COOK?
>>65400216Spend $75 instead on a BA3A IIIA helm from Botach. This deal makes all other poverty helms irrelevant.https://surplus.botach.com/3m-ceradyne-ba3a-ballistic-helmet-pasgt-cut-nij-level-iiia-police-trade/?If you can swing $230 then a Warmag NP550 IIIA+ steel helm is very attractive given it handles cheap ass crossbows, super stab threats, 7.62x25 tokarev, 12 gauge slug, and a lot of other business that an ACH cannot and it does it with minimal BFD to boot. Downside is it's 4lb.
NEW: >>65400387NEW: >>65400387NEW: >>65400387NEW: >>65400387NEW: >>65400387
