Brb going to go establish residency in South Dakota rn
AOWs? Time to put foregrips on all my pistols.
>>65419833AOWs aren’t covered.
>>65419474>Maryland on the free states listThe fuck? Didn't they do a magazine ban recently, yet they have zero state laws on suppressors? I mean that's similar to how it is elsewhere in the world but like, wtf?
I can't. I live in NC. Fuck democrats
>>65419474>tfw OhioBuy an extra suppressor in my spirit, fellas. Maybe one day we'll be able to join you
>>65419474Be careful. State laws may still need to be updated. Arizona is on their "free" list, but the way Arizona law is worded, suppressors are illegal unless they are Federally registered. Also, doesn't this only apply in the 5th Circuit?
>>65419528We're full.jk please move here.
>>65419848It seems you are retarded, cannot read and/or lack reading comprehension.
>>65419474>>65419833>>65420659>AOW good to go for GOA members Holy shit buying my Super Shorty now
>>65420646>Also, doesn't this only apply in the 5th Circuit?Holy shit, we've gone over this a thousand times over the past week.All you have to do for coverage is be associated with the plaintiffs, which simply means getting a GOA or FPC membership, or buying something from PSA or Silencer Shop.
It's a shame the ruling doesn't affect machine guns. Looking forward to that change in the future, assuming this momentum is maintained.
still need to 4473 a suppressor so what's the point?
>>65420640 asking here too I guess Stuck in NC and I desperately want a new can (without having to do paperwork)
>>65420725Attorney fag here. I've not looked over all the details of the case, but states are often able to create legislation in the absence of federal law OR a state can draft laws more stringent than what federal law has (as long as it doesn't violate constitutional law, as that is a restriction placed on state and federal govs).
>>65420680It won't. MGs will never be released. Society is far to sick.
>>65420696Fucking retard
>>65420669Crazy to imagine you went over something a thousand times and still ended up being wrong about it in two different ways.
>>65419474So do you need a form 4 to convert a pistol into an sbr? Do you need to do that with a PSA lower or was that just horseshit from today’s PSA video?
>>65420811you need absolutely nothing to convert a pistol into an sbr besides not having it being against your state laws
>applies to minnesota, but not wisconsin
>>65420740We were saying this a about sbrs and suppressors a couple of years ago
>>65419990the demoshit menace has been awful for my beloved state. i'm starting to doubt it'll ever recover.
>>65420811You can technically do it (but are not entirely free from the possibility of legal consequences as it can still possibly be challenged in which you'd have to defend yourself based on the previous ruling) IF you are a GOA member, live in a state where wording of the law does not specifically require a form 4 registration AND you buy (or have bought) the firearm from PSA.
>>65419474>PA still needs a form 4Eh, kinda lame. I don't really care much though since a form 4 takes about 24 hours.
>>65420829Stop spreading disinformation and saying the gun has to be from PSA. Fuck that retarded inbred bubba, nowhere in the court documents does it say it only applies to lowers bought from PSA
>>65420826I don't understand how we even got here. Cooper fucking sucked dick but yeah lets get another dem to replace him. Surely things will change.
So can I put a foregrip on my stribog now?
>>65420817ERM TECHNICALLY you also need to be a plaintiff in the lawsuit. But if you're worried the ATF is going to check you can just give the GOA 25 dollars to become a member.
>>65419474My question is what FFL is going to go along with this?Like lets say I buy from Silencer Shop, get the thing shipped to a local FFL in a free state, and then that FFL is just going to let me go with just a 4473? Won't the FFL thing its putting a target on their back or some glowop to get their license taken away?
>>65420884They'll likely say you need to do a form 4 until we get a mpre definitive statement. The good news is the current administration has given positive statements in the past (Bondi allowing FRTs), so hopefully Blanche says something to the effect of "NFA is for machine guns and DDs now, not SBR/SBS/AOW and suppressors".
>>65420860I understand that you're very emotional about this, that should signal to you that this is the perfect time to interface with an incredibly convoluted ruling and start posting your new illegal SBR everywhere.>>65420884They absolutely will, the amount of people that will be willing to tread uneasy legal ground are going to be slim to none.
>>65420895suck start a 1911 you retarded illiterate redditor. go point to me in the court documents where it says where you have to be a GOA member AND the gun has to be bought from PSA in order for the form 1 $0 tax being unconstitutional
>>65420913See my previous post if you're looking for a response
>>65420921get a life and do something beyond concern trollposting on /k/
>>65420788that's the way of /k/ we'll cook down to the correct answer eventually.
So can someone confirm my tl;dr?>state allows everything>be GOA member >this allows me to forgo Form 1 and forgo Form 4 for SBS, SBR, SupressorsIs AOW allowed in the Form 4 section or does it still follow MG and DD guidelines.
>>65419474>Alaska is a restricted stateHuh?
>>65420925Enjoy your post-meltdown stress nap. Keep us updated about that SBR.
>>65420895psa implied in their video you need to be a customer, you don't. goa, fpc, etc. member alone grants you an injunction against those portions of the nfa, unless you're a member one of the groups associated with the merged jensen case, then no aows.
>>65420884Silencer Central is posting on socials to come grab your can in store today. Seems they are doing it.>>65420921How does that work for B&T who is also an included plaintiff. Do I need to be GOA and buy from PSA to reap the benefits toward B&T sales even though they are included in the case?
>>65420930Form 4 is still required if you buy an SBR or SBS directly from your LGS for the time being because the 1968 GCA requires the transfer of those items to be approved by the Attorney General. The Form 4 was used to fulfill this requirement, but that could change if the Attorney General decides that Form 4473 can be used instead.
>>65420884I’m not even at the ffl part, a lot of suppressor sellers (ie rainier arms) won’t send it to an ffl for a form 4473 until they get atf clarification. This freedom will drip out not be a deluge
>>65420933Like some people said, it could be an artifact of how the law is written. If the law states ownership is allowed but it has to be registered, then skipping the registration process means the item is not allowed anymore under the law.
>>65420945I would imagine that if B&T is included in the lawsuit that would mean that B&T is included in the lawsuit.>>65420943Are we sure about that?
>>65420945Silencer Shop is located in Texas where I am so I guess if I was REALLY hellbent I could drive all the way to their shop near Austin.
>>65420821
>>65420976Please note silencer shop and silencer central are different places. Silencer Central is a suppressor store in South Dakota yet they are jumping on board. Best case for those wondering if you can go out and grab a can with a 4473 today is to just call the place you have in mind.
>>65420954I'd give this a good long wait to settle out. If the DOJ doesn't gird itself up to fight this, which it's looking like it may not, the atf may just say they aren't enforcing those sections on anyone, because doing so is untenable.
>>65420884So just a fair warning to anyone who wants to buy a can today, DO NOT BUY ONLINE FROM SILENCER SHOP! Buying online from them will require them to transfer your silencer to your LGS on Form 3, which can take like a month for ATF approval; possibly more at this point with how busy they’re going to be. Instead what you want to do is go directly to your LGS with a Silencer Shop kiosk and buy it directly from their inventory on Form 4473 if they have the can you want in stock.
>>65420947What if you’re a goa member and convert your pistol to an sbr?
>>65420680Machine gun owners will never permit this, as their investments will crater in value
>>65420990You can just do it. No Form 1 required. PSA was lying when they said you had to originally buy the gun from them to qualify (even if you did, they sell other guns besides their own PSA-branded ones so it’s not like anyone would know).
>>65420987The best thing to do now is to wait, absolutely. I'm happy to let PSA do their little in-store 4473 thing to set the precedent.
>>65420989Form 3s take like 24 hours at most, retard.
>>65420933Alaska if actually full of minorities and is becoming a libtard state. The only reason they're gun friendly is because like half the population hunts.
>>65420664>>65419848>>65419833AOWs are good to go unless you are mark subu
>>65421025Last time I bought a silencer direct from SS the Form 3 took a month and the Form 4 took like a day or two. This was after e-forms because before that, Form 3 took a couple of days while Form 4 took 6 months to a year.
So does this apply to ALL suppressors? Even ones we make ourselves?
>>65419944I think Maryland's retardation is only relatively recent. like they didn't go full retard until the 80s or 90s and NFA items didn't become common until recently so they just relied on the NFA
a year from now silencers will be half the pricethey are very easy to make and there's no reason for them to cost 2 PSA AR15s except that they were NFA items so only enthusiasts willing to pay that much were bothering with the paperwork>hopefully by then NC will get their shit sorted
>>65420680The boomers will never allow this as long as theyre alive
>>65421076tic toc
>>65421036Did you buy it in 2010? Did you submit your paperwork by carrier pigeon?
>>65420658There is you and 12 other people in the state.
>>65420664It took 1.5 hours to buy a membership last night, refreshing hard on a gaming PC.
>>65420928fuckin nothin is wrong when you're on crack, amateur. There's just no laws, how could you understand them? You're on crack after all.
>>65421075Well they sold for $20 last night, can I get a six pack?
>anyone implying you need to be GOA or buy from PSAThat's not how the fucking law works.
>>65421148Yes it is.-t. GOA
>>65420995They're not the courts. They can piss and shit about it all they want.
>tfw you live in WIGuess I'll still collect $0 stamps for now. Hopefully, the stupid CLEO wait time goes away soon.
>>65421155>they're not the courtsJudges are primarily boomers.
>>65421148>>65421150the injunction applies to GOA et albut if DOJ doesn't file an appeal in the next 53 days then the ruling stands nation wideDOJ has signaled they are not appealingand there's no way DOJ will bring a case against anyone else in the next 60 days when they haven't appealed this rulingso do whatever the fuck you want just don't post that shit online for 2 months
>>65420945>>65420985>>65419474Just got off the phone with silencer central. I'm in a free state and they still are requiring the normal process they've always done. Photo, fingerprints, forms, etc.
>NFA StatesDoes that mean the NFA process still exists but it's only needed for these states? I heard from my LGS that if the NFA went away then these things would be banned because the federal law would no longer exist to override our state law.
>>65421261the NFA tax stamp process will continue because it's needed for machine guns and destructive devices, they will be happy to take your information if your state requires it
Problem?
>>65421266Better than being outright banned I suppose. It's all smiles today.
ahemSO CAN I PUT A FOREGRIP ON MY STRIBOG OR NOT
>tfw CaliforniaAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>65421292You can do whatever you want fren
>>65420696>reeeee why are you happy about gun laws getting revokedKill yourself nigger. 5 years ago you had a $200 tax and a 12-18 month wait time. 2 ago the wait time got cut to days to weeks. This year the tax got removed. Yesterday we got form 1s removed. What happens in a year or two you dumb niggerfaggot?
>>65421292are you a goa member? do you live in a state without aow restrictions? do you trust your anal virginity to anonymous retards?
>>65420895>and start posting your new illegal SBR everywhere.it’s not illegal. But I will tonight
>north dakota>north carolina>still backing NFA legislature the south IS rising again
>>65421292Yes.
>>65420995>>65421076They don’t matter. I don’t know why you retards keep parroting this. MG owners are such a small number compared to the number of gun owners with FRTs and that would want Hughes repealed. Courts don’t care about protecting their investments. The truly rich guys have such little of their wealth in MGs they wouldn’t even notice. The number of boomers who legitimately bought MGs as investments are literally in the hundreds. If that many. They don’t matter and they have no power.
>>65420884Valid concern. If the FFL is a silencershop dealer AND plays ball, all they have to do when running a regular 4473, is in the Section B (the part they fill out) is check their box 16 for OTHER FIREARM and put SUPRESSOR down and then do not check box 20.
>>65421363Its definitely going to take time for shops to consult lawyers, get processes written up for what to do on the paperwork, and then officially train employees on that.Until that time, nobody is going to risk it.
>>65419474So for any armchair lawyers here, how does this work? Does it only apply to silencers and AOWs sold by them? Only to people involved in the lawsuit? If so why?
>>65420658100000 jeets on the way saar
>>65420696Isn't that the same form you fill out for any gun?
>>65421411the feather indians would demolish dot indians
>>65419474So say I live in one of the “NFA states”How does this work with SBR and SBS’s? Would I have to fill out a form to the ATF or something?
>>65421238>FingerprintsWhat gay fucking state are you in? Lmao
>>65421190Not in Missouri, our lawmakers are buying silencers from shops and posting that shit online. We are the real free state.
>>65421190Not it literally means "also Al", my buddy. Allan Farningham from high school.
>>65421430form 4's always required fingerprints regardless of your state, anon....
>>65421422For now, yes. Things might change
>>65421422Business as usual, for now. Some are murky (e.g. PA simply says you have to comply wirh the NFA, but if the NFA doesn't require filling out the form anymore...). Others are clear cut and demand a check.
>>65421422Yes. Same form 1 process that already exists. The eForm site is cancer but it works. And it’s free.
>>65421366fucking doomers I swear
>>65421075eeehhhh, maybe. I bet it will be longer than a year. For one, the demand will be greater than the supply can handle for a little while. Also, most of the current manufacturers will attempt to preserve their margins. They know exactly what people have been willing to pay for the last decade. Its very possible you see cheaper prices but also cheaper quality. Over the long term though, I would agree with you.
>>65421408Nobody knows, because everyone is waiting on the ATF and their lawyers for guidance before taking the plunge.
>>65421408gonna have to get a copy paste for all of you, it's still being argued by actual lawyers, but the best info so far is: if it's legal in your state and you're a member of one of the pro gun organizations you can make supressors, sbses, sbrs and aows* (if your group is one of the silencershop ones not the nra ones.) being a "customer" doesn't count unless you are buying the nfa item in question from them or one of their downstream distributors. if those thing are true you can also buy suppressors and aows once the people who have them work out exactly that's going to happen, but not sbses or sbrs because those are still regulated under the gca.
>>65421422maybe not, wording is different state to state, they may prohibit cans but not sbrs without nfa registration.
>>65421132But Anon-kun, Silencer Shop’s own website claims Form 3 can take up to 20 days and Form 4 can take up to 43 or 44 days. It’s better to just buy from your local store’s inventory so you can at least skip the Form 3.
if you can get a unregistered suppressor, does that make it legal to do a private sale with somebody else in the same free state without dealing with the NFA or a FFL?
>>65421597probably
>>65421597Private sale of firearms legal there?
>>65421435Bro please post evidence, I have got to see Josh Hawley buying a can on a 4473
>>65421435based Missourians blowing the fuck out all other states. We are the most free
>>65421326you could've just not complied from the very beginning and kept your dignity.
THE INJUNCTION ONLY APPLIES TO INDIVIDUALS IF YOU ARE BUYING AN NFA ITEM FROM ONE OF THE COMMERCIAL PLAINTIFFS. IT DOES NOT BLANKET COVER GOA MEMBERS. IF YOU ARE MAKING YOUR OWN NFA TIEMS OR BUYING A SUPRESSOR FROM A RANDOM FFL ON A 4473 ALONE YOU ARE WALKING INTO A LEGAL TRAP.>..the injunction must reach the commercial plaintiffs’ customers—both current and future—to provide the commercial plaintiffs with complete, “forward-looking” relief.Silencer Shop et al v. ATF No. 6:25-CV-056-H at 61 (2026)>But to be clear, the Court’s injunction does not extend to the above-noted customers in all circumstances. Because the injunction remedies the injuries to the plaintiffs, it only covers current and future customers’ transactions with the plaintiffs and their commercial members.Id. at 61>Therefore, the Court’s injunction does not allow a commercial plaintiff’s customer (or the customer of an associational plaintiff’s commercial member) to avoid the challenged NFA provisions “for all NFA firearms they possess, transfer, sell, make, and manufacture.”Id. at 61-62>Here, the associational plaintiffs in Silencer Shop give zero indication of what makes someone a “supporter,” and “it is not this Court’s role to operate on inferences or to impose an arbitrary scope on who those supporters might be.” … The Court thus declines to extend its injunction to any associational plaintiff’s “supporters.”Id. at 62-63
>>65421632what you quoted just pertains to commercial plaintiffs, i don't think your interpretation is correct.
>>65421663This.>does not allow a commercial plaintiff’s customer (or the customer of an associational plaintiff’s commercial member) to avoid the challenged NFA provisionsGOA is not a commercial plaintiff I would think.
>>65421663>Here, the associational plaintiffs in Silencer Shop give zero indication of what makes someone a “supporter,” and “it is not this Court’s role to operate on inferences or to impose an arbitrary scope on who those supporters might be.” … The Court thus declines to extend its injunction to any associational plaintiff’s “supporters.”GOA fucked up and didn't make a record of what a "supporter" actually was.
>>65421451>e.g. PA simply says you have to comply wirh the NFA, but if the NFA doesn't require filling out the form anymore...just looked into NC, says the same thingso as soon as the NFA wording is changed to fit this ruling NC is good without having to rely on the local government
>>65421686>didn't make a record of what a "supporter" actually was.anon, can you tell me what a "well regulated militia" is?
Why is anyone celebrating this? You have to still fill out the form 4 and form 1 for every single transfer since the appeal window is still open. Everyone who buys a suppressor on a 4473 is going to end up in jail with their dogs shot if they don’t have a grandfather clause. Not to mention the moment the next election rolls around democrats will make the tax $5000 or whatever they please. The NFA is the best protection for gun owners but you all just have to rock the boat. I’ve been donating $200 to the ATF for each tax stamp I’ve filled out too since the big beautiful bill isn’t even constitutional anyways with the tax being $0.Fucking retards.
>>65421698>The NFA is the best protection for gun owners but you all just have to rock the boat.ok boomer, how's your "machinegun investissment" going now that FRT are a thing ?
>>65421686>Remedy-wise, the plaintiffs in both cases are entitled to a permanent injunctionbarring enforcement of the challenged NFA provisions against them, their members, andtheir customers. But that is as far as it goes.it's crystal clear what a member of the goa is, you went too deep into the weeds of the judge specifying what a customer was.
>>65421698
>>65421709Your FRT is going to land you in prison next election sonny, and I have a right to my machine guns and the financial investment behind them. Maybe next time stop ordering avocado toast and start appreciating what you have
>>65421688I hope you're right about NC :(
>>65421722https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-288.8.html
>>65421711"member" refers to the commercial association plaintiff members, not individuals. The court distinguished this in the judgment. Read it.
Some mad stores out there already selling silencershop stuff on 4473 only, cleared and walked w a bunch of cans since fuck it.
>>65421722DESU, while he may be a grabber, I don’t know if our illustrious Governor actually cares enough to veto a bill that would change that statute. So we should probably push the lawmakers to do so.Damn you Mark Robinson. Why’d you have to be such a weirdo!
>>65421749>commercial association plaintiff membersdoes not appear in the memorandum opinion and order, you may be conflating things, i think your reading comprehension is at fault for your mistaken conclusion. > It is true>that courts have suggested as part of a standing >analysis that associational plaintiffs may>bring suit on behalf of their “supporters,” but only >when they possess sufficient “‘indicia of>membership.’”>Id. Three associations—>Gun Owners of America, Inc., Firearms >Regulatory Accountability Coalition, Inc., and>Gun Owners Foundation—sue on behalf of their >members: gun owners and firearms>manufacturers, retailers, and importers.
>>65421775why did NC GOP choose a black nazi to run?just run a boring old white dude, its a proven strategy
Here is this video which everyone should watch and download for educational purposes.https://archive.org/details/improvised-suppressors_202009
>>65421775The inner workings of the GOP is an enigma. Didn't they do the same thing in VA? Ran some retard minority and lost to a white woman
>>65421422I guess on the bright side processing times will really improve
>>65421810Probably because they knew that retards like me would still vote for him.Granted, I did it because I thought it would be fucking hilarious if he won, but still.
>>65419474y'all need a kitchen gunhttps://youtu.be/6-7NDP8V-6A?si=BaL1h9aEPE3-ZqxO
>>65420811Form 4 is for when you buy a silencer or SBR from a dealer. Form 1 is for when you create an SBR from a rifle, pistol, or receiver.
>>65421132I miss that site that popped up to track Form 1 and Form 4 times. The ATF run site lies so fucking bad or averages so fucking poorly; everyone is getting like 80-day Form 1s for the past two or three months at least. The site I mentioned that no longer exists was spot on at all times. A shame it lasted maybe a year.
Never got the point of suppressors but have fun
>>65422158you can go look at the nfa approval thread on r/nfamy last form 1 took about 80 daysform 4 a week
>>65422161hurts your ears less and makes you look cool. one of the few pieces of safety equipment that adds some aura.
>>65422161Gets rid of muzzle flash while using nvg's.
>yeah! take down the flock cameras! i wont be a part of your tracking systems!>did you .... did you just buy a suppressor without giving the government your fingerprints?>AHHH IM GOING INSANE
>>65421632So all I have to do is to buy any upper from one of the largest online retailers in PSA and I'm fine to put it on a psa lower I previously had?
>>65422269That guy is mistaken, but if you are a member of one of the plaintiff organizations and live in a state without sbr laws linked to the nfa the atf is enjoined from arresting you for makind sbrs or aows.
>>65420893>>65420884I called my LGS today and asked them this directly. They said they're waiting on a DOJ ruling on it but if it goes the right way then they'll be able to sell suppressors with just a 4473, but until then they don't want to risk their business or their customers getting in trouble.
>>65419474when will this make suppressors not needlessly fucking expensive
>>65422343It won't, only the NFA being declared unconstitutional in the Supreme Court will do that, and even then it will have expense since states will try to ban it anyway
>>65422343how much does a good can cost in europe?
>>65422189Could do that too; I just miss how it was done state by state and even included which person processed your form. Could also filter with various date ranges and by type of NFA item. And unrelated, but reddit now requires you to sign in for old.reddit which is exceedingly gay.
>>65422393between 250 and 500 euros
>>65422343Otter Creek Labs alone sold about 52,000 suppressors in 2025.What do you think?
>>65420680We might just, one day!
>>65422161There's certain benefits.>1. Looks cool sometimes, and there's some historical and collectible stuff which can be more easily authentic with less restricted silencers.>2. Can be nicer for hunting in some places or/and at some times without annoying people with loud BANGs a lot (you don't want to be rude and wake people when night hunting).>3. Can also be more courteous for some shooting ranges for similar reasons.>4. If you hunt with a dog, it'll be much gentler on their ears.>5. Stealth advantage for hunting or pest control at times.>6. Certain home defense appeal, in that guns are even harsher on your ears indoors, so dampening the BANG helps you retain situational awareness better if something really bad happens, and limits lasting hearing damage down the line.Do any of these points matter to you? You be judge, but these are reasons common to people.
Okay, so now that everything except SBR/SBS is btfo (lets be honest, we already have full auto thanks to FRTs), what consumer designs are going to become more common/just better?I guess my real question is what gun is Keltek looking to develop RIGHT NOW?
>>65419474cant I just make one myself???
>>65422402Everytime a Euro anon tries to present proof of a cheap can of this range they produce some slop with a sub 5000 round lifespan they can't even use outside of super inconvenient hoops and then cope about Switzerland.>>65422343Nigger they're cheap enough as is, if some urban ape can afford the $700 for a can, so can you.
>>65420997In PSAs gay video, the dude says "if you buy from us AND are a goa member," which is misleading. He should've said "OR" instead. Probably just trying to rake in business. I'm not a lawyer.
>>65423338Man I genuinely cannot afford to spend 700 bucks all at once
>>65423341Yeah silencer shop was a helluva lot more thorough with their wording
>>65423341>Probably just trying to rake in business. 100% this but it has set a horrible precedent because the ATF might still try to prosecute against people who are found to not have purchased from PSA based on that video alone, no one else is rushing to claim they have immunity on SBR's besides the GOA, they will def try to drag people down like when the binary triggers first came out and only Franklin Armory and the Echo triggers were deemed as safe since they went after everyone else due to the case only specifying them as parties.
>>65422343about a yeara mediocre suppressor can be DIY'd for nothing, the market will adjust to this
So if I'm a GOA member I can turn my rifle short and skip Form 1?I dont care about cans, form 4, or 4473.
>>65423399depending on your state, yeah
>>65421597That's how it works in Texas, at least as far as firearms go. Would depend on your local laws.
>>65423337maybe?https://youtu.be/3PR5j5TEBek?t=476
>>65421176Name 1 judge that owns a machinegunNoguns boomers dgaf about what hasguns boomers want
>>65423390The market will adjust by lowering quality. Titanium, inconel, GOOD welding and machining, etc didnt go down in cost. In fact, the supply of these things will get some pressure because of all of this and thus increase in cost. Up until now, manufacturers had good margins on quality products because of the artificial demand environment. Now they WILL lower quality to preserve their margins. What youll see is slightly more durable oil filters come onto the market and everyone will say theyre just-as-good but they wont be.
>>65420878ATF isn't allowed to ask for member lists. They courts told them they couldn't with the brace ban and that if they fuck up and got someone covered by the suit they'd be open to damages
>>65423399State dependant. If you're in IL you'd still need to hold a C&R
>>65422161WHAT DID YOU SAY??
>>65423425>>65423815>short rifles do not count as a controlled weaponI think I'm in the clear? I'll see you guys on the other side.
>Um you retards are just blackpilling, you cucks are addicted to losing! Did you even read the lawlsuit?lol, lmao
How close are we to in-store walmart suppressors now? My 22lr shitrods don't need anything fancy and I bet all these suppressor manufacturers are inflating prices right now with the hype.
>>65424015Okay so they're being ambiguous fags and trying to rope in a monopoly on the suppressor market as being The Only Suppressor Store™, what is the legality of manufacturing a suppressor? This post says SBRs require form 4 still, but that's only buying a completed SBR rifle and buying separate receivers (from certain companies) and putting them together is completely different a legal in "free" states with no local SBR laws.
I don't like this law because I paid for a sbr stamp and blood will run in the streets now!
>>65424023It's time to give up on this line of mental gymnastics and just accept the truth of the matter.
EVERYONE CRASH THE FUCK OUT AND JOIN BOTH THE GOA AND THE FPC AND AS SUCH BECOME A PLAINTIFF IN BOTH THE JENSEN V. AND SILENCERSHOP FOUNDATION V. BATFE CASES AND IN AS MUCH RECEIVE INJUNCTIVE RELIEF LEGALLY BARRING THE BATFE FROM ENFORCING USC 5822 FORM 1 REGISTRATION AND APPROVAL REQUIREMENTS AS WELL AS USC 5842 (B) AND 5861 MARKING/ENGRAVING PUNITIVE REQUIREMENTS ON YOUR PERSONAL PRIVATE NON-COMMERCIAL MANUFACTURING OR CONFIGURING OF AN SBR, SBS, AOW, OR SUPPRESSOR....YES YOU MUST FOLLOW STATE AND LOCAL LAWS. NO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A PSA FUCKING LOWER OR UPPER YOU COULD DO IT WITH A BLOCK OF ALUMINUM IF YOU WANTED. I'M NOT A LAWYER BUT I CAN READ, AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO AS WELL. AND NO THE GCA OF 1968 DOESN'T MAKE ANY LAWS PERTAINING TO INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE MANUFACTURING/CONFIGURING. https://www.wiley.law/assets/htmldocuments/Silencer%20Shop%20Found.%20v.%20Bureau%20of%20Alcohol%20Tobacco%20Firearms%20and%20Explosives%20Memorandum%20Opinion%20and%20Order.pdf
>>65423737I'm ok with thatif PSA can pump out a functional AR15 for $400 then they can pump out a functional steel suppressor for $75
>>65424032state law says I have to follow NFAso I'll just wait for them to change the wording in the NFA to be consistent with the courts
>>65424052>i will just hold my breath
>>65424031what? you think a corporate tweet is legally definitive? it's still being worked out what exactly is permissible, the latest news is that the atf has told all ffls to treat it as business as usual for the time being. people are suspicious that they are just going to slow roll it, if an ffl won't sell you a can they've effectively backdoor stayed the injunction. i think it's reasonable to need a little time to figure out how to handle a sea change though, and the current atf leadership is probably the best we've had in our lifetimes for a positive outcome.
>>65424064I think that the people directly involved in the lawsuit probably have a better overhead understanding of the lawsuit yeah. Much more so than a bunch of coping seething migaturds who are going to get their order reversed and have 3-4 people made an example of. Of which will be used to justify reversing such an order.
>>65419474Does It also cover SBRs? Can we start putting stocks and foregrips onto "pistols"?
>>65424063if the DOJ does not appeal do you believe they have a choice? the injunction is only a temporary stop gap for the defendants, they dont get to have more rights than the rest of the country in perpetuity
>>65424080also if an appeal comes in the next 2 months and the decision is overturned, all those suppressors bought now by GOA members would likely need to be registered after the fact to remain legal
>>65420664GOA sends me emails and was sending me physical letters because I bought a hat. I guess that counts as being a member? Not like it matters, I still cannot buy a suppressor because gay state.
>>65424076It covers configuring (taking a rifle lower and a sub 16 upper) if you are a GOA member only (25 bucks to join BTW), but does not cover straight purchases of one as it is part of another law. So if you are a GOA member then you can get a PSA lower and a upper without a form 1
>>65424076that list is for suppressors, states have different laws surrounding sbrs and sbses so double check your local laws.
>>65420933Several "free" states have laws like that. My good-faith assumption was that they put "NFA items are legal" it on the books as a political statement or to make it harder to ban them later, but they needed to include the Form 4 caveat which now it turns out was really dumb.
>>65424073>migaturdscouldn't help yourself, huh redditor?
>>65424210Based polite anon.
>>65419474I live in California. Am I just fucked?
>>65424302you know you don't have to ask.
>>65421489>not sbses or sbrs because those are still regulated under the gcaI'm not asking you, this is rhetorical: how can they justify Form 4s for those when now it's literally just a registry which isn't legal?
>>65424516I know you're not but I can't help but answer, as part of the GCA the Attorney General must be notified and the form 4 is the way that's done currently.
>>65424527which does sound like a registry.
>>65424047>functional
>>65424527The Attorney General could change that at any time by simply saying he will accept Form 4473 instead of Form 4 for his approval.
>>65424569The issue has only existed for two days, I'm sure people are working on it.
>>65424089Bro idk I was supposed to be a lifetime member years ago with a one time donation. They sent me member ship cards for 3 years and then completely stopped. There site doesn't remember any of my information either.
So, if it still takes a form 4 to buy a short barrel rifle, but form 1 no longer is needed to make a short barrel rifle, then whats stopping someone from take an already existing "pistol" like pic related and putting a stock on it?Are there resources, like Silencer Shop's suppressor legality map, for SBRs?
>>65424650a membership in goa, farc, etc and living in a state that its legal to do. >Are there resources, like Silencer Shop's suppressor legality map, for SBRs?not that I know of.
>>6542403225 dollars a year to join GOA? Sure. I'm not subscribing to a 10 dollar a month payment to join the FPC.
>>65424842FPC are annoying faggots. Don’t join them.
>>65424842in answer to your imagethen you have childrenyour life is given purposewhen they are killedthat purpose is vengeance
>>65420954>Are we sure about that?The PSA guy was probably reading what their lawyer prepared verbatim and the "this [legal advice] is only valid if you buy from us" part is ass-covering on their part in case someone gets fucked buying from someone else.
>Niggers in here acting like a fucking membership supercedes the Second Amendment>Niggers in here pretending the ATF can interpret and set the lawGet fucked fedboy faggots.
>>65425260sadly the Second Amendment won't prevent them from killing you in your bed.
>>65420954being a PSA customer was another group in the lawsuit. You don't have to be a GOA member and a PSA customer to be covered, you only need to be one of the two (or any of the other plaintiffs).
>>65420680There is zero political willpower to fuck with machine guns. Also, FRTs are a thing, so they've really in practice already made them legal.I mean my SP5 with a drop in is literally just as fast as a transferable, what more do you want? I also own a transferable Mac-10 , its cool and all, but at the end of the day its a $10,000+ bullet hose with zero useable purpose other than investment/range day gun. I do wish transferables were much cheaper, but we have FRTs for so many guns now, if you cant scratch your full auto itch with a 1500 RPM TX22 then idk what to tell you.
Colorado requires a form 4 to buy a suppressor, but do they require a form 1 to 3D print one? Can I squirt one out now?
>>65426043doesn't matter how you got it, possession is the crime without it being licensed or registered. >18-12-102. Possessing a dangerous or illegal weapon - affirmative defense ->definition>(1) As used in this section, the term “dangerous weapon” means a firearm silencer, machine gun,>short shotgun, short rifle, or ballistic knife.>(2) As used in this section, the term “illegal weapon” means a blackjack, a gas gun, or metallic>knuckles.>(3) A person who knowingly possesses a dangerous weapon commits a class 5 felony. Each>subsequent violation of this subsection (3) by the same person shall be a class 4 felony.>(4) A person who knowingly possesses an illegal weapon commits a class 1 misdemeanor.>(5) It shall be an affirmative defense to the charge of possessing a dangerous weapon, or to the>charge of possessing an illegal weapon, that the person so accused was a peace officer or member of>the armed forces of the United States or Colorado National Guard acting in the lawful discharge of his>duties, or that said person has a valid permit and license for possession of such weapon.
>>65424650So if I have a rifle, and I have a shorter barrel for it, I can then attach the short barrel to it without filing a form 1 so long as I am a GOA member and live in an appropriate state?
ATF give any updates yet?
>>65426117double check your state laws in case the sbr laws differ form the suppressor ones if your going by the silencer shop list>>65426123as of yesterday it's "keep doing what you've always done" there is an incredible legal tangle of paperwork structure and identifying the plaintiff class it applies to is nearly impossible. even if they bag it and say they won't enforce it against anyone they'll still need restructure how ffls deal with it, and i imagine they are holding out in the hope that they will win in court as they have throughout history and not have to do a ton of work.
>>65426144Texas
>>65426154goa lobbyists got this law passed Senate Bill 1596. it's a good law. >S.B. No. 1596 amends the Texas Penal Code to prohibit the possession, manufacture, transportation, repair, or sale of short-barrel firearms. The bill specifically removes the classification of short-barrel firearms from the list of items that are illegal to possess unless registered with the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. The language that previously included short-barrel firearms in the list of prohibited items has been deleted, and the affirmative defense for dealing with short-barrel firearms as antiques or curios has also been removed.>Additionally, the bill repeals Section 46.01(10) of the Penal Code, which likely defined short-barrel firearms. The changes made by this Act will only apply to offenses committed on or after its effective date of September 1, 2025, meaning that any offenses occurring before this date will be governed by the previous law.
>>65420862It's all about demographics at this point. People vote the way they do not because of logic but because you don't want the boomers, chuds, zoomers, blacks, mexicans, commies, rich, pedophiles, men, or white people (and to a lesser extent republicans or democrats) to win.
>>65426117This is all a confusing nightmare, some say yes, PSA says yes if you bought the lower from them, but there is also technically an approval that you need from the AG via the 1968 gun control act that is separate. The ATF is rumored to be putting out guidance on the 17th or 18th I would just wait for that.
>>65421631>hi mister silencer shop, yes, i am NOT COMPLYING and i am KEEPING MY DIGNITY. please hand over the silenceri think i'll make you a slave
>>65426183The 1968 GCA requires the Attorney General’s approval if you buy an SBR or SBS. Right now the only way to get that approval is Form 4. That could change if the AG says he’ll accept Form 4473 instead of Form 4. Form 4 is not required if you “manufacture” an SBR yourself at home on a receiver you already own.
>>65420696I wondered this too but all the bots replying to you seem to want us to think you're having an episode of WRONGTHINK
>>65426565the needle is moving in the right direction for once, either your a involuntary contrarian, opposed to gun rights, or so depressed you have trouble caring about anything. in many states you can probably legally manufacture your own suppressor if your a goa member, and in some put stocks or vertical foregrips on your pistols. one of the most onerous gun laws just got heavily degraded you can be happy about it even if you still can't have cans in your blue state.
>>65426602It's just symbolic though, if you're still asking for permission from mommy the fundamental situation hasn't changedAnd actually I'm a muslim commie trannie indian chinese black jew though so you were wrong
>>65426611But you can just make your own without any permission besides a goa membership? With a much lower risk of your dog being shot.
>>65426633Looks like the marking requirements are still in effect, which may include notification of some governmental body.
>>65426113Genuine thanks for your response, friend.
>>65427383just trying to keep all the doggos alive
>>65419474I'm pretty sure they're illegal on the state level here.
>>65429208Well, look on the bright side, there'll be one less barrier to tear down later. Every chip helps.
>>65419474If I'm in a covered state and customer of PSA...CAN I MANUFACTURE A SILENCER LEGALLY? I don't need a check to manufacture a firearm, and the only regulatory overhead is a FFL transfer for the silencer, right? No more federal forms? Can I buy an oil filter kit on amazon and declare it a legal silencer?
>>65429882not exactly, being a psa customer probably isn't enough, you should also also have a goa or fpc or frac membership. the marking requirements might still be in effect so an fpc membership would be best as there plaintiff group under the jensen case does have some form of injunction against serialization. all that being saidhttps://youtu.be/3PR5j5TEBek?t=476
>>65419474Delaware fag here. I’ll have to watch you all enjoy your suppressors from a distance.
>>65429911>being a psa customer probably isn't enoughWhy not? They are a covered organization and customer set. My understanding its PSA and/or GOA, not a strict "and."The FPC membership does make sense. With the DOJ declining to appeal this I highly doubt they are going to be performing enforcement. Or you can just shoot ATF agents in minecraft and become a celebrity. After watching that video it sounds like your only requirement is a serial number, if you make one. No requirement to federally register it.>become GOA+FPC membet>buy amazon solvent trap>scrawl "NIGGER DICKS696969420" on it with an engraving tool>ATF can get fucked
>>65429966consensus amongst guntuber lawyers is that "customer" only applies when buying the nfa items themselves, the legal basis for them as a class is to prevent the harm done to psa by discouraging potential customers with an onerous nfa process.
>>65430016The argument doesnt matter. Per >>65429911 The receip, transfer, and manufacture sections are halted for all covered people. Being a GOA member clears you. All you have to do is comply with NFA serial number requirements and not move it between states. >manufacturer name>manufacture city/state>serial:JEWSRAPEKIDS666
>>65430042Wait I need to engrave any suppressors I buy or sbrs I make?
>>65430425SBRs already have the manufacturer serial number on the lower. Silencers you make require compliance with NFA serial regulations, but without a form 1 requirement you dont actually report it to anyone. I believe pre manufactured silencers have a factory serial.
>>65430425yeah, to exact specifications
>>65430428*you need to add your name and city/state to a lower you convert to a SBR
>buy bag of washers>engrave them to ATF standards>law gets put back in place>your bag of silencers are grandfathered
>>65420862it's all the transplants over the last decade voting blue.
>>65430452You actually don’t anymore. ATF amended the engraving rule so the original factory engravings are ok and you don’t have to ruin collectible firearms just to SBR them.
>>65430457>how lightning links and a shit load of DIAS were made
naw fuck thatFUCK THATHow do I make my rifle LOUDERI want someone to know I'm shooting at them, and exactly from where.
>>65419474>nevada still requires a form 4I hate aaron ford so much it's unreal
I don't see any laws regulating engraving font either. Cursive time.
>>65430042>All you have to do is comply with NFA serial number requirements>>65430425>Wait I need to engrave any suppressors I buy or sbrs I makeUnless you're a member of TSRA or one of the other plaintiffs in the Jensen case that was rolled into the Silencer Shop case. The Jensen plaintiffs got a separate injunction preventing Justice & ATF from charging them with violations of 26 U.S.C. § 5842(b) (engraving/serialization when making) and 26 U.S.C. § 5861(i) (possession of an improperly engraved firearm). These two sections were only contested by the Jensen plaintiffs not the Silencer Shop plaintiffs, so only the Jensen plaintiffs got relief. The GOA was a silencer shop plaintiff *not* a Jensen plaintiff.>>65430527That rule change is still in the proposal stage. Don't be surprised if the ATF yanks that proposal due to this Texas decision.
So, I'm a GOA member, I bought a pistol AR lower years ago from PSA, and I live in a state with no sbr/sbs restrictions or added rules.I assume there's no problems with slapping an actual stock on it now, since theres no form 1?
>>65430976what about the attachment for shooting down police helicopters?
>>65434104There's still the engraving/serialization statutes. The case the GOA was a plaintiff to didn't mention those statues. The Jensen case (that was rolled into the Silencer Shop case) did mention those statutes, and because of that the injunction prohibiting the Justice Dept and ATF from prosecuting those statutes only covers the Jensen plaintiffs (TSRA, CCRKBA, and a few others).
>>65434540So just become a Goa member and FPC member and your bag of washers is now 1000 legal non serialized silencers? :^)
>>65434540>serializationIt already has a serial number, since its literally just a normal AR lower with a pistol brace.Does that count or no?
>>65434573specifically fpc action, standard fpc isn't covered.https://secure.fpcactionfoundation.org/membership
>>65419474Sadly I'm in Oregon, so at best nothing has changed for me and at worst I might be more fucked because OR law only allows NFA stuff if it's got a tax stamp so if the ATF stops issuing them it'll be impossible to get anything, and the OR legislature will never pass anything to fix that issue so the only chance will be another court case that'll probably take years.
>>65434719it's still being debated if nfa makings are required or not if you are a member of one of the Jensen group plaintiffs, but better safe than sorry for something relatively easy to do>>65432354nfa markings are currently different from what the gun came with, there is a proposed atf rule to just use the guns original serial, but that isn't in effect yet.
>everyone is waiting for ATF release to tell them whats upDo they have to unless ordered by a higher power?Couldn't they just leave it vague to discourage people from participating?
>>65434739Technically the only additional marking you need is your name and city/state if you are going to make your rifle a NFA item and haven't donated to FPC/FPC action.>>65434747The ATF is probably seething its tits off and refuses to announce what is and isnt legal. Its ran by traitor terrorists who enjoy killing american citizens.It seems pretty clear. If you are a qualified person, silencers are now normal firearms in 27 states. If you are quaulified person you can manufacture them for personal use. If you do sell your silencer (non commercially) then it follows normal private party transfer rules.If everyone's in shock about what it means, the most basic interpretation (this post) should be assumed.
>>65434719Not for the NFA, no. The NFA says it must be marked with the maker (you) and a unique serial number. The Jensen case contested those requirements as well as the form 4 requirements, and won on all counts except for AOW weapons (they weren't able to show actual harm for AOWs). >>65434739The Jensen plaintiffs got the same injunctive relief from the marking statutes that the suppressor guys got from the form 4 requirements. That is not up for debate. It may be fun to say "ooooh the ATF will get pissy about the marking statutes and disobey those injunctions but are totes ok with the injunctions over the form 4 statutes" but absent actual evidence of this happening you're just making an ass of yourself.The Final Judgement made it absolutely clear that neither the Justice Department nor ATF may prosecute the Jensen plaintiffs (Jensen, TSRA, CCRKBA, and one or two others) for failing to engrave and serialize their SBS or SBR at the time it was made, nor may they prosecute the Jensen plaintiffs for possession of an SBS or SBR that is not engraved with those markings.
>>65435441https://shared.nrapvf.org/sharedmedia/1512215/2026-jensen-137-final-judgment.pdfPage 2/2Pic related
>>65435450>(i) to receive or possess a firearm which is not identified by a serial number as required by this chapter; or>(b) Firearms without serial number.--Any person who possesses a firearm, other than a destructive device, which does not bear the serial number and other information required by subsection (a) of this section shall identify the firearm with a serial number assigned by the Secretary and any other information the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.neither of those reference the marking requirements at making, your summary is incorrect and your citations are misleading. we can argue it here so no one has to argue it in court if you want, but at the current time it's best practice to properly engrave.
>>65435481You should take it up with the judge then. Those are indeed the marking requirements in the NFA. You are possibly confusing the NFA law with the ATF's regulations. The ATF rules about what size and how deep and exactly what information has to appear are based on those clauses of the NFA. Pic related is from the judge's opinion.
>>65436555The marking requirements at making are 26 U.S.C. § 5842(a)>(a) Identification of firearms other than destructive devices>Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.(a) is not enjoined, while it seems like (b) should cover it, it's technically a different violation of federal law. It may or may not ever come up, it's a small chink in the armor of the injunction that lawyers have identified, and in my eyes a good enough reason to dremel anything relevant you might make. But this isn't legal advice and I'm not anyone's dad so whatever, have fun.
>>65436697>>65436555>>65435481>>65435441>>65434948>>65434739Okay, so what was it like before this ruling?If I had a rifle I wanted to make short-barreled, or if I wanted to put a stock on my pistol, what were the requirements? I understand you needed a form 1, but did this mean you'd have to serialize your already serialized gun?
>>65436758Yes.That's because if you turn a normal AR lower into an SBR you are remanufacturing it into an NFA firearm and it needs to be remarked as though it were being manufacturd ex nihilo.
>>65420821>wisconsin>in charge of actually passing relevant conservative legislationwe had red leverage and the state go no freer
>>65436791I'm a bit lost on all this. Form 1 and form 4 are no longer needed for GOA members and PSA customers regarding suppressors, but the SBR/SBS ruling is not covered by them, right? Then what organization do I need to join to be covered by the SBR/SBS ruling and what do I need to do to make my current gun a legal SBR?Also, what are your thoughts on the following video posted by PSA:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfSzfoo4hg0Just want some clarification here since I like being not a felon.
>>65436816Fuck it bro. If youre in a free state no one is gonna bat an eye anymore. Dont worry about any of it. ATF isnt gonna give us instructions, they ate gonna be vague and not helpful. Id say, if you want to be safe, just be a goa member, and fuck the rest of this shit.
>>65427292>which may include notification of some governmental body."Mail" a notice to your CLEO, if usps "loses" it, its not your problem. You're only required to attempt to notify.
>>65436816>Just want some clarification here since I like being not a felon.That's what all the ffls are waiting for from the ATF, we're on the theoretical bleeding edge here, and it's not advisable to treat any of this correct. We're trying to hash out what's best in the /k/rucible. If you want to make a go of this read and understand all the related laws and injunction (gun lawyers don't) and decide if you want to wait a bit for clear guidance. If you really want to do it right now a $25 goa membership and a $10 fpc action foundation(not vanilla fpc) would provide maximum injunctive relief, you'd have to be sure that sbrs were not prohibited by your state laws (the suppressor map won't necessarily count) and probably do the nfa marking for a little extra security, and there still may be something we missed.As to the video, they are saying you must have bought from psa for simplicity and commercial purpose, their lawyers probably told them two layer protection would be achieved being both a plaintiff group member and customer would be best, they heard that as goa and psa. Theoretically being just a member or even just a customer of any plaintiff could be enough. There was a firearm lawyer on youtube who just said the goa/psa plaintiff group wouldn't be covered for making your own, but I haven't looked up if he's right because he isn't here to argue with.
>>65436894This. I take this situation as pretty obvious and straightforward. Trump wanted this ruling on purpose.>join the GOA, AFPC, FPC, TRPA(?), buy from PSA>SBRs and Silencers can be made with no serial number requirement in 27 StatesThe lawyer ladies said it simple. This ruling is the opposite if what they have said forever>you cannot make silencers, they must be serialized, you have to ask for permission, register them, can't transfer them within the stateIs all out the window if you do the above. Also like anons said, if there's no state laws against these then state police won't do anything about it. Having an unserialized silencer or SBR is no longer probable cause for anything, because they can be lawfully possessed by most people or these plaintiff groups.
I'm also declaring my box of washers a box of legal unserialized silencers, so even if the law gets put back in place, mine will be grandfathered. Its California magazine freedom week but for silencers.
>>65436697Confirmed by the attorneys in the case at around the 3 minute mark, sorry I can't do better, I'm on my phone because the power is out.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpso5p0QvY&pp=ugUEEgJlbg%3D%3D
So, if you have both a GOA and a FPC Action Foundation membership, you're covered for both SBR/SRS with no form 1 or engraving requirements and also supressor form 4s?
>>65439636Yes go crazy. Buy a big box of washers and declare them unserialized silencers. Are feds going to throw you in prison for 500,000 years for having a box of 1000 unserialized washer silencers? As long as you dont sell them for a profit it's all legal and will likely be grandfathered *if* this gets struck back down. Its out of jurisdiction for cities/counties, 27 states dont care, and feds at the ATF currently have a pole shoved up their ass. Just dont move them between states because thats still in effect.
>>65439636no you still have to mark it when you make it>>65436697>>65438725
>>65439798>>65437370The fuck are you talking about "Declaring" ? There is no process for that or way for anyone to know if you made it before, during or after anything happens with this law.If they find you with 1000 unregistered suppressors in a future where they are illegal, there is no defense in "I declare I made them during the injunction!" This is such a retarded mindset.
>>65440050Okay, so who can I pay to have something engraved on my gun?
>>65440050>>65440218Pretty sure you dont if you are a FPCA member.>>65440063Seethe harder glownigger. Post ex facto applies. There is no retroactive "making silencers illegal again" if it was acquired legally. Trump is telling the ATF to shove their bullshit laws up their ass. In a couple months if the laws get put back, cops are going to be finding thousands of unserialized silencers forever, everyone will say they are legal & grandfathered, and they can't do shit. Just like California's freedom week for high capacity magazines.
>>65440063Its THEIR job to prove it was acquired illegally. Unless silencers are made regulated again, and someone announces their intention to break the law, cops cant do shit, especially if someone is a GOA/FPCA member (which there is no method to verify and owning a probably legal silencer is not probable cause to check.)
>>65419474>ohio still cuckedwhy
>>65440416>Pretty sure you dont if you are a FPCA member.you are wrong. the lawyers who won the injunction say 26 U.S.C. § 5842(a) still applies, even if you're right engraving isn't onerous and saves a potential felony.>>65440218your local gunsmith usually has a laser engraver and will do it pretty cheaply, if you want to do it yourself with a dremel that's an option too. here are the requirementshttps://www.silencercentral.com/blog/every-nfa-engraving-requirement-you-need-to-know-about/
>>65440218git gud nigga
>>65440457red states passed laws tying nfa items directly to the nfa to make it easier for people to get them, they never expected the nfa would ever cease in any fashion.
>>65440472https://www.wiley.law/alert-NFA-Court-Ruling-Reshapes-Compliance-Following-Wileys-Successful-Constitutional-Challenge
So like will I be able to buy an old VZ 61 with the stock still on without a hitch?
>>65440500In 27 legal states yes. SBR, SBS, and Silencers are all considered normal firearms. RIP AOW weirdos. FFL and private party transfer rules apply normally. Both the seller and buyer should join the GOA and FPC + FPCA to make sure you are fully covered from relaxed NFA requirements and serial requirements. God I love purchasing my rights. Money is the god of jews, is it not?
>>65440500>>65440517No, actually. It doesn't get rid of a form-4 to purchase an SBR or SBS (though it does cover AOW as well as suppressor). It just eliminates the need to form-1 a SBR or SBS. So you can buy a pistol VZ 61, then add a stock to it yourself.The Jensen v. ATF case eliminates the need for requirements of registration of NFA $0 taxed items, as long as you're a plantiff (FPC member or NRA member).This is just me trying to understand it the way I'm looking at it, speaking as someone in one of the free states (Texas). If anyone else can chime in and tell me I'm retarded and wrong, please do so.
>>65440517you are variously mistaken, the gun control act still covers sbrs and sbses, they are not considered normal. aows are able to be made by the silencer shop/goa group of plaintiffs. ffl rules and private party transfers don't work like title one firearms. the gun control act functions under the "commerce" power where everything is commerce rather than the nfa which exists under a tax power. >18 USC 922(a)(4):>It shall be unlawful—for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity;>27 CFR 478.11 also defines "commerce" broadly as including even "travel."you cannot transfer an sbs or sbr without the permission of the attorney general. please do not offer your incorrect opinions as fact to others.
With form 1 no longer existing for a lot of gun owners, doesn't the engraving requirement become moot?If things keep up the way they are, what are the odds it either stops getting enforced or removed from the books all together?
>>65441431See>>65436697It's possible that it will go unenforced, there is an incredible tangle of laws and the ATF is currently deciding how they're gonna handle it. Which they hate doing, they like the ambiguity dissuading people from doing anything and following a "we know it when we see it" model because when people know right where the laws is they can rules lawyer it and make a product that violates the intent of the law without violating the letter of it. But thats how law works, and all gun control is unconstitutional. Another lawsuit taking a second pass could clean up that and a few other issues. For the time being it's best to mark at making, and still pretty bold to be making on the word of anon and guntubers.
>>65441116Please don't encourage compliance like a coward. Getting as many people as humanly possible to accumulate gray area semi-formerly NFA items is the absolute best thing we can do to push this forward. >foreign commerce See I'm no lawyer but it sounds like if you keep and sell it within the state there's no problem. Especially if it's private sale. >a bloo bloo bloo crying about muh feds gonna be you at the buyI guarantee I can find 10 "pistols" with the stock lying 2 inches away listed right now on my state's private sale website. And at least one with the stock attached. Been that way for years. Bubba who doesn't know the law is doing whatever he wants without issue, while your autistic adherence to retarded laws has you encouraging people online to cuck as hard as you do.
>>65441851people can make their own decisions based on correct information, it is immoral of you to lie to them in the hopes enough law breaking that it becomes normalized. that did work for weed but nfa violations are a different situation, the penalties are vastly harsher and the appeal isn't nearly as broad. plaintiff group members can make their own form 1 items, but there's a needle to thread, if people want to do that with as little risk as possible they need the correct information to do that.
>>65441943>it is immoral of you to lie to them in the hopes enough law breaking that it becomes normalized. I don't fucking care. We have an opportunity to have the first major shift in NFA law in 92 years. >that did work for weed but nfa violations are a different situation, the penalties are vastly harsher and the appeal isn't nearly as broad. Gee, good thing we have the first non-shitbag head of the ATF in a generation who has openly said current NFA lass are stupid and very clearly intentionally didn't file an appeal within the week deadline. They wanted to lose that case based on their behavior. >plaintiff group members can make their own form 1 items, but there's a needle to thread, if people want to do that with as little risk as possible they need the correct information to do that.Do you know how many times I've been asked to show my stamps in my life? Zero. Do you know how many ATF agents I've encountered at the range? Zero.The founding fathers would've spit on you, the 2nd amendment was not intended for people with your level of patriotic spirit, because you'd never do anything with it in a million years.
>>65441431If you are a protected person in the Jensen case (FPC FPCA member) then serial requirements for self manufactured silencers and SBRs dont apply. >>65441851This. The majority of the hassle of these bullshit laws was repealed by a judge for silencers and SBRs. I'm not waiting for the ATF to lie and discourage me exercising their rights. Reminder the ATF kills american citizens for fun.Local, county, and state police won't do shit because there are no laws in 27 states. Enforcement is out of their jurisdiction. If the ATF wants to go around raiding people with silenced SBRs that are legal, I think they know what happens next when everyone learns that is how they treat law abiding people.>>65441943Feds! Feds! Im protected by the Jensen case and am also a Goa member! Feds! I'm turning a pallet of washers into a pallet of 10,000 unserialized silencers!!! I am manufacturing them for personal use and non-sale, but might give them away if grandfathering is on the horizon.See? They can't do shit. It's legal behavior. Is the ATF going to try to put me in jail for 100,000 years for legal behavior? Will a jury convict me for "manufacturing" silencers by possessing a box of washers and jail me for the rest of my life? Of course not.
>>65442210>If you are a protected person in the Jensen case (FPC FPCA member) then serial requirements for self manufactured silencers and SBRs dont apply.You are mistaken. Would you rather hear it dumbed down?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHf5P2gVEmg
>>65442385>ur wrong>i won't explain why>if you say youre dumb I'll tell youFuck off. Buying another box of washers.
>>65442385The founding fathers still would've spit on you, fucking coward. You do not deserve to own a gun.
>>65442210>I'm not waiting for the ATF to lie and discourage me exercising their rights. And look how many people are waiting for exactly that. The average gun owner knows more about the law than the average ATF agent and cucks to it as much as humanly possible holy fuck it pisses me off so much. Never forget the forum boomers ensuring their M1014/WASR is 922r compliant, y'know, cuz that's a law tons of people get sent to the slammer for. >Local, county, and state police won't do shit because there are no laws in 27 states. Enforcement is out of their jurisdiction.Cops I know can't even interpret the law so they just aren't touching anything (not that they were before but now they're not even wondering if it's legal or not, they're just assuming everything is)>If the ATF wants to go around raiding people with silenced SBRs that are legal, I think they know what happens next when everyone learns that is how they treat law abiding people.Thank you for actually saying this, I've been kind of impressed by how big of a population of retarded redditors is on here. They unironically believe if the ATF suspects you have an illegal NFA item it's literally Waco 2.0 as opposed to a couple dorks showing up at your door begging for you to give it to them so they can take it to look good today for their boss. No one gets shot, there is no SWAT team, idk if I've ever even heard of an arrest for buying Chyna cans or whatever.
>>65440218My brother in retardation, you can buy a chinkshit pencil engraver kit for like $15 or just get literally anything made of metal with a fine point harder than the metal you're engraving and hammer it in by hand.
>>65443037Would not even meet the minimum requirements.
>>65443042>Would not even meet the minimum requirements.lmao fucking what. Using an engraver or a dot peener to legally mark imported and exported and/or home-built guns has been the gold standard forever. Please explain to me how DIY engravings don't meet the same legal standards for permanency and durability when importers, exporters and firearms manufacturers have been using them for 80+ years now. I fucking dare you to go look at the barely visible chicken scratch on any AK imported before laser engravers became a thing and then tell me again that a chinkshit pencil engraver isn't good enough.
>>65443037I tried they are shit and only scuff the surface, even with "diamond" abrasive. You need a stamp kit and engineering hammer. .003" minimum depth. Or get a corded dremel
>>65442874it's been explained multiple times in the thread>>65436697part (a) has not been enjoined, that is the marking requirement at making. it is explained at length in small words in the link you didn't watch, buy all the washers you want and good luck.>>65442908lying to people to trick them into non-compliance to further your political goals is not the way to go about this. it's easy to do the marking requirements with a harbor freight dremel, people in a majority of states can legally make suppressors and sbrs with a $10 fpcaf membership, you don't need to try to get them to join the cool guy club with you having illegal weapons (which you haven't posted) over minutia.
>>65443105>$10 fpcaf membershipThat's monthly, $120 a year is a bit much imo
>>65443105The marking requirement is lifted if you are protected by the Jensen case.
>>65443141>That's monthlyWut.https://www.fpcactionfoundation.org/news/fpc-action-foundation-statement-on-nfa-victory>FPC Action Foundation is proud that its membership includes all active recurring donors, as well as everyone who contributes $10 or more to FPCAF each year.
Where do I sign up yearly?
>>65443144post a link to someone saying that. here is a link to the lawyers who argued the jensen case saying that you do in fact need to mark at the time of making. https://www.wiley.law/alert-NFA-Court-Ruling-Reshapes-Compliance-Following-Wileys-Successful-Constitutional-Challenge>>65443141>>65443161not fpc, their sister org which was the one in the lawsuit.https://secure.fpcactionfoundation.org/membership
>>65443193>open your link>THE JENSEN PLAINTIFFS ARE RELIEVED FROM MARKING REQUIREMENTS AND SERIAL NUMBER PENALTIESthanks for confirming my box of washers is legal unserialized silencers, because I declared it so.
>>65443226i'm sorry you don't read good>26 U.S.C. § 5842 (a) Identification of firearms other than destructive devices.>--Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.
>>65443259>ignoring the sentence right afterIs this all you glowniggers have?
>>65443418>(b) Firearms without serial number.>--Any person who possesses a firearm, other than a destructive device, which does not bear the serial number and other information required by subsection (a) of this section shall identify the firearm with a serial number assigned by the Secretary and any other information the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.you can roll the legal dice, but you can't claim you legally made it but the legally required markings disappeared and now they can't make you put new ones on.
>>65443433well you could tell them they can't make you put new ones on but they could jam you up over their non-existence.
>>65443433>a: you are required to have a serial>b: if you dont have a serial you must put one assigned by the secretaryB is suspended. You can't be punished for not having a serial* (in this specific self manufaxture of a SBR or silencer.)
>>65443433Also serial numbers aren't legally required for homemade firearms, and since the NFA serial requirement is suspended for Jensen people, I stand correct.You can manufacture a silencer(unserialized) and keep it unserialized if you are a protected person under multiple cases. If I have a normal lower and SBR upper I can assemble it without marking my name and city.
>>65443460maybe they wouldn't charge it, and hopefully when it shakes out the marking requirements are entirely removed, you do what you think is best. is your big box of washers going to baffles or endcaps?
>>65443105>lying to people to trick them into non-compliance to further your political goals is not the way to go about this.Why? Are they gonna get arrested along with the tens of thousands of people who have bought 4473 cans in the last few days? The ones the ATF hasn't said anything about being sold over the counter? The ones they could've gotten a guaranteed injunction for and didn't? The ones that've been being sold for a week now without a peep out of the ATF? No you're totally right dude, the ATF is gonna swoop in with their 100,000 strong SWAT teams and arrest and charge all these people after they let them buy this stuff unimpeded. Then they're going to charge them in a court of law with...buying/building something that no longer requires a stamp. I guess they're going to try to convince a jury they all need prison for not putting additional markings on something that isn't registered with the government? Good luck with those convictions.Now, I'll ask a 3rd time, do you think the founding fathers would've respected you? Do you think they would've cared if you could own a gun? The answer is very much no, they would've seen you in the exact same light as colonists who sided with the British because it was the safe option for cowards. I genuinely mean it when I say you don't deserve the 2nd amendment, and if I was as much of a coward as you I'd kill myself. I could not live with myself if my solution to any risk whatsoever was to bend over. Pic related, the founding fathers would've called me based and redpilled and invited me to go bag redcoats to create the greatest country on earth. You would've likely been burned in your home for being a yellowbelly.
>>65443895>I guess they're going to try to convince a jury they all need prison for not putting additional markings on something that isn't registered with the government? Good luck with those convictions.like they did with Patrick Adamiak, or maybe like how ATF Agent Tyler Cowart shot Bryan Malinowski in the head last year before they had a chance to lie about him in court? they don't arrest everyone, they are capricious and select "accused" seemingly at random. you can do whatever you want, and good on you for living by your convictions, but people deserve to make their own choices without you lying to them and claiming something is legal when it is not. probably nothing will come of it, for you or anyone else, but if it does i'll kick in for your legal fees.
>>65444031>they are capricious and select "accused" seemingly at randomThis again ignores all the other logistical problems if that were to happen. Does everyone need to turn them in or register now? Why wouldn't you just announce that without raiding people? Do you think any agency of the government will willingly do that much additional paperwork all at once? Every agency on earth would beg for grandfathering just to avoid that. >AdamiakMaybe the poor bastard was railroaded by the justice system, but that case always made me extremely suspicious. It's supposedly been brought up to the current admin before and nothing happened. I suspect he directly told an ATFaggot he'd bend a MAC flat for them or something. >MalinowskiI don't know much about him but google says he was boomer genius #857 who found out he could buy a hundred guns then sell them at a gun show to people who didn't want to have a background check. Then shot at the ATF when they showed up to arrest him, resulting in him being shot and killed. Am I being given some goyfeed fabrication? That all sounds entirely normal and even dare I say reasonable. If you shoot at cops they'll kill you. Buying 150 guns on 4473s yourself then selling every single one private sale at a gunshow to anyone with cash will likely result in the ATF figuring out you are a straw purchaser. >but if it does i'll kick in for your legal fees.Here's my own olive branch, lighten up and join the rest of us, ATF basically confirmed it's all good. https://www.ammoland.com/2026/08/ffls-pass-atf-inspections-after-transferring-suppressors-on-form-4473/
>>65444065>boomer genius #857 who found out he could buy a hundred guns then sell them at a gun show to people who didn't want to have a background check. Then shot at the ATF when they showed up to arrest him, resulting in him being shot and killed.Lmao based and he didn't break any laws unless he intentionally sold to felons.
>>65445342I think the issue was he broke the law when he started shooting at the ATF agents who were coming for him.
>>65444065>>65445342guns that Malinowski sold were (allegedly) being recovered from crime scenes. They no-knocked his house at 5AM, he probably thought one of his customers was coming to rob him. Malinowski had a designated parking spot at the airport, ATF could have snatched him there without any issue, but chose the worst option.
>>65445492I don't feel bad when pigs die trying to terrorize citizens instead of handling it like adults within the bounds of the law. The point is legally authorized terrorism and execution of american citizens without due process. The pigs should be charged for their fellow pig's death, same as when someone dies robbing a shoe store. Even if guns are recovered at crime scenes that is not probable cause he sold them to felons and doesnt justify a raid. Once its out of his hands he has no responsibility. >ATF knocks on his door>I sold them at a gun show to someone who wasnt a felon. I'm not required to provide any records because I don't have any. ByeEnd of story.
