Post gear, discuss gearThe Mehler Vario Extremity Protection Edition.RIP Armorus Maximus, the first Armor Autist.Old: >>65529455
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, Philly Trash Sniper decided he wanted some RF1 PE plates. Anon got fucked on some Safelife FRAS. A war was fought on two fronts for entirely different reasons about NIJ rules effortposting. RMA sux.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.178CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat:/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)Budget: Hesco L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HWElite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept EmperorElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 / Hesco-Protech 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (7N37?)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
okay, someone tell me why i shouldn't buy a hypershell exo
UNRIVALED Sof esapi anon, just got the new adept flip up mandible. The nvg mount is ass and the circlet is annoying to mount but overall for sure an improvement over the old mandible. Next I'm getting the lobster tail as a counter weight
>>65566259Fucking love SOF ESAPIs, I'm jealous. You cannot argue with 10-hit BZ API at 1" if you're up close.Speaking of kewl plates, Gilliam just put a video out saying they have ceramic for just two more 8002s, the IV++ Swiss P AP rated tile array. 8.5lb / 1.25" thick 10.3x12.3, $628 a set if anyone wants any. It will be discontinued in favor of a TBA monolithic RF3+ plate.I'd buy but I'm happy with the 2230s and I don't like single curve.
>>65566259chat is this real
>>65566395confirmed real. He is one of the three chads with SOF ESAPIs.In armor news, Jinwudun just released a new iteration of IIIA visor. This time there's a silicone seal that covers the helmet-visor gap for adverse environments. Me gusta.https://jinwudun.com/products/nij-iiia-level-bulletproof-face-shield-with-waterproof-silicone-layer-universal-tactical-equipment-bulletproof-face-shieldI see however they walked back the 12 gauge slug rating. No me gusta.
New stuff alert. Buffman got the new RMA 1155 GEN2 in. I was right, they did make the 9.5x12.5" SAPI Ms smaller. It's now 9.25x12.20". I know this sounds tiny but it's a ~5% difference, which means if we size correct to true SAPI M, the 7.485lb 1155 GEN2 is actually 7.88lb, about same weight as a Hesco 4403 in that size.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ojkwpA3zRY
>>65565549Armored boss might be too rich for trash sniper. I think it’s the lightest cheapest maybe thinnest plate in its class. Important note is that this does not include the backer so this is my next move. Getting something better is tempting but being able to throw these plates around and tank Tula from an arp is mighty fine
>>65566855Then it sounds like the Helion or GARMS 1 is the play, depending on whether you want SA or ICW
>>65566887I don’t think they have the Helion available anymore. This is just from cursory glance though. Not sure the specs (weight/thickness) between the two
>>65566887>>65566910Scratch that - found it. They have strange product info then actual product pages
>>65566914Since Militech is out for the count value-wise, that's the best value you're gonna get for RF1. Just be aware it's a thick fucker at 1.15"Armored Boss claims to be using "Super UHMWPE", a more dense version, hence why their shit is thinner. Just about every time a company claims to have a secret sauce, it turned out bullshit at worst and marginal at best. If there is a secret, every other company will want to get their hands on it. Ceradyne never told anybody they had doped boron carbide in certain plates.
>>65566958I love the idea of super plastic. It sounds like some prime bullshit though. What’s generally thinner? Dedicated or icw? Also, is rf1/2/3 a new standard as compared to generic levels (3,3:5,4,etc) or is levels just a base catch all? I think these rf1 will be the lightest budget wise, but maybe not throw them under a jacket thin
>>65566965>What’s generally thinner? Dedicated or icw?The plate itself is thinner ICW by a substantial amount. However, if you count soft armor then ICW + Soft will equal the standalone or actually exceed it, because separate unconnected layers are not as efficient. Depends on the soft armor panel.>Also, is rf1/2/3 a new standard as compared to generic levels (3,3:5,4,etc)Yeah, RF1-3 is NIJ 0101.07. Levels are NIJ 0101.06 and prior. RF1 is Level III but with multi hit down to 3x instead of 6x, but with 7.62x39mm MSC and 5.56 M193 also added as threats. RF2 adds M855. RF3 is single strike M2AP, same as IV.>I think these rf1 will be the lightest budget wise, but maybe not throw them under a jacket thinPrimo solution will be the Hesco 3801LV, but that's expensive. Thinner and lighter.
Kitty with C2A1 filter in tin
>>65566550lol buff is deleting comments
>>65567035Yeah I just saw this one got hosed. See pic rel. He doesn't normally do that, so this is odd.
>>65566969Gotcha, many-thanks. Trying to become more familiar with terminology/standards here. Time for more reading. We need 5” thick polyethylene rf3. Not that ceramic will not survive shipping, but can you frisby ceramic?
>>65567069>but can you frisby ceramic?Depends! NIJ 0101.06 requires only the plate do its job after falling four feet onto concrete twice with a 10lb weight on the back. Armor before that? No drop!>>65567052this is a shit look for matt
>>65567069>Not that ceramic will not survive shippingAlso, if packaged improperly, yes armor can be ruined by rough shipping. A guy or two got 4SAS4s back in '24 which failed tap and torque out of the box. Those are 0101.04 no-drop plates.
>>65567052I'm pretty sure having a link in your comment is what got it deleted. Happened to me as well when I was talking with buffman and cited a source with a link, and the comment got insta deleted, but was fine after I removed it.
>>65567151I tried posting afterwards without it, no dice.
>>65567159oof that sucks then, buffman is probably the only guy on yt that tests armor semi-seriously
>>65567164I'll try again later sans link. If he's got me blocked then I'm gonna laugh my ass off.>buffman is probably the only guy on yt that tests armor semi-seriouslyYeah but he's really in bed with RMA. See how he spins the RMA 1192 situation and just says stuff that isn't true. >>65567052
>>65567164Just posted sans link entirely and it's fine. I looked it up and it's apparently a channel setting, he has to approve comments with links manually, so kinda crappy still if he isn't doing that.Ah well
>>65567346Prob been linked to sketchy stuff one too many times for him to turn on that setting + ignore the flag for the manual comment review
>>65567374Right. Waiting to see what he says about the 1155 GEN1 test fail and the 1192 issue, because what he's saying about +/-0.5lb tolerance being an industry norm just isn't true. It's also not allowed by NIJ either for CPL'd plates. RMA doesn't even show it in their test reports for non-CPL'd plates! Three 1165s with a ~0.016lb difference and he got 1192s 10oz heavier than advertised, and 0.25lb heavier still than the final B4C-SiC version? Nah, something was fishy about that.Also, if he concedes the ~0.25lb difference on the 1192s stinks, well, his old 1155s were 0.225lb heavier than advertised. Calls into question that test too, because a "variance" goes both ways it's really a manufacturing tolerance. Good news is that his 1155 GEN2s DO actually math out areal density wise versus the actually 9.5x12.5" ones in the Element Materials reports, so they aren't ringers. The spread on those was 0.058lb, by the way.>>65566550So to actually address the results, the SAPI M 1155 G2 is basically a Hesco 4403 which lacks 0101.06 or 0101.07 cert, it's about the same price, and the 10x12 is way undersize. Even if it weren't an RMA, pass. It offers nothing on the 4403 and it gets its ass kicked on paper by the Gilliam 1635 otherwise in the non-certified arena.
>>65565921I love magpul gloves soo much because the dexterity is insane isekai cheat magician level but mine are destroyed. What gloves to get if not more magpul
>>65567616mechanix, original or the m-pacts depending on how much you tear them up
>>65567618NTA but mechanix makes me feel like I have retarded sausage fingers. Speaking of, how do I protect my hands from boolit?All this talk about rma is giving me migrane. Gloves.
>>65567625>>65567618Yes this mechanix is good for the money but not tactile enough
If I already have a 3 mag placard with MOLLE on the front would you guys recommend getting a whole new placard that can hold 6 or just attaching another 3 to the front?
>>65567737That's just personal preference. At the end of the day, it does the same thing. Getting a new placard, plus inserts will probably be more money, but it will look better than just slapping something on the front; but at the end of the day, you'll still just have a placard with 6 mags.
>>65567756Does it not matter when youre running around? Or for durability?Assuming the cummerbund attaches to the placard
>>65567759Well, yeah. The more attachment points you have, the more chance of failure. Having all 6 in a placard is usually a bit more snug. That being said, you're probably not going to be running around in your plate carrier enough for them to ever fail.
>>65567776Probably not noThat said, do you have any recommendations for a placard that fits 6? Or a decent 3 mag pouch?
>>65567778I run the shaw concepts v4 with the ram inserts, and spectr insert in front. It's nice because if I don't want to run 6 mags, the spectr insert sits flat.
>>65567785Ive been heavily considering the ARC v4, the issue is finding it, let alone in a decent pattern.
>>65567789Yeah, buying anything shaw is a huge pain in the ass. Most of my carrier is shaw, and it took me nearly 2 years to get everything I wanted. I had to follow them on twitter and check very frequently for when they announced restock. Plus their shit is expensive as well. Unfortunately, I can't recommend anything else, because it's the only thing I've actually used.
>>65567792Good to knowJust trying my luck, but is Esstac any good? If Im thinking about NIR
>>65565921This seems like a good place to ask, so what's some good backpacks for everyday use that aren't tacticool "gray man" tier? Something around 28L that has sufficient compartments and could work for conceal carry would be ideal.
>>65567837I hear vertx packs are pretty good and don't scream tacticool
>>65567837LL Bean Super Deluxe Book Pack 41LIt will last you for years and fits in at school, the airport, the office, or wherever.
>>65567852>>65567854Thanks, I'll check them out.
>>65567879My first LL Bean from middle school is still being used. That should say something.
>>65567625Unironically 6x6" soft armor panel mittens. DIY.
>>65567616Try out the Viktos Operatus gloves.
>>65567909damn cuh ll bean like nokiaI see homeless people with ll bean. They know the consequences of gear failure better than most. Vagabonds have urban knowledge.
>>65566197How do you plan on recharging it in the field?
>>65567879been using my vertex regularly for 6 years and it's held up great
>>65566259hit the helmet with some chrome spray paint and let me know of it looksthx
>>65566197dunno about your body, but my limiting factor is my knees not my muscles, that wouldn't help me at all
>>65567837I like tnf bags a lot. I got a generic camelbak bag and it’s held up great too. Rei brand bags are “okay.” Osprey seems to get a lot of takers, but I personally haven’t really like them all that much.
>>65567374Talked with Buff. He admits the sizing is a big problem. Apparently Highcom told him he was making a "mountain out of a molehill."A plate being sold as 10x12 but is really 9x11 with bottom corner cuts is a small problem? Ya shitting me highcom? You're selling people mediums but giving them smalls.Is there a gun-adjacent industry with more shenanigans than armor? I honestly don't think there is!
Guy on Ebay has 5x7" Armor Express SAPs for sale. They're basically just blunt trauma reduction. $14 a pop.https://www.ebay.com/itm/1779336687547x10" also available here for $16 a pop but higher shipping.https://www.ebay.com/itm/178003596522I think they were intended as a soft, modern version of the old steel trauma plates from the 1990s and are meant to be worn with IIIA soft to take the steam out of a 12 gauge slug or similar. Could be useful for DIY. Slap em behind homebrew extremity armor in accordance with the ARMORUS MAXIMUS spirit.
>$70 BA3A>$65 genuine Ops Core arc rails new open box>$40 genuine 3M Peltor arc rail mounts new open box>$20 Impact Sports used excellent condition>$30 for rubber seal and epoxy I just ordered to do high cut mod to BA3A>$225 all inMade it out of here not too bad for a poorfag. Just had to check facebook/ebay listings once or twice a night for a couple weeks. Still looking for a good discount on a used shroud/nvg (Prowl 2, NVG 30/50, GNG2K, yes I know digital poop but it works till I save up for PVS-14) then the poorfag special is really complete.
>>65569160If you're getting digital mono then the GNG2K is still the top play. I would not go below NVG-30. You can usually get a 30 off an airsoft kid for $100 once he realizes other people can see him blasting the illuminator to high hell. 50 is awkward and because of the design doesn't sit at the right height for some people.I have a 30 with the aftermarket wide view lens. It's... okay. You'll have an edge over people with just flashlights but you're strictly outclassed by all decent analog.I kinda liken digital NV to steel plates. Lot of people think they're getting The Free Lunch(tm) with both. You don't. Better than nothing but a hell of a lot worse than The Real Deal(tm).
>>65569317Thanks for the info>Better than nothing but a hell of a lot worse than The Real Deal(tm).Yeah for sure, I figure I'll get a quality shroud/mount then snipe a deal for a digital then when I can buy analog I can recoup 80% of the cost reselling the digital later they seem to hold value.
>>65569352They sorta hold value because the later gen versions are extremely incremental improvements, so there's no reason to upgrade from NVG30 to Nvg3rd to GNG2K. People either go to the highball $1k and up digital units (SVG-5, NVG-90) or they go to analog. The Goodnitegear SVG-5 is supposed to be promising, but GNG is the RMA of night vision, so give em a grain of salt.Speaking of RMA. Congratulations to "Cheese" for doing what Matt Landfair at P&S could not - beating RMA in a plate debate.
>>65569352Two guys have NVG-50s for under $400 a pop, accepting offers. If you're feeling slick, maybe try and do a little "he's offering me this" bluffing and get some lowballs.https://www.ebay.com/itm/189038421887https://www.ebay.com/itm/257782113098Also please do the needful and listen to this god awful youtube auto-dub of a Russian plate test. Dude sounds like he's busting while passing a gallstone.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx_1Umb1-20
>>65566550>gets fucked by 855a1 and m2apLMAOthe highcom 3++ did better than this unironically.
>>65569352why do poor faggots waste money on digital NV always amazes me. Unironically get a flashlight poor beggar. Save up for months, years if needed, then buy a 3-4k legit PVS14. GET THESE BEGGERS OUT OF HERE.
>>65569593Ah, right, now that Buff tested the 1155 GEN2 we can finally do a head to head showdown between the three budget Made-in-America Level IVs. I'll give the RMA credit, it did better than the 4S17M. Considering the 4S17M is 8.6lb SAPI M, the Hesco is 7.9lb, and the RMA is about 7.9lb if it's actually fucking SAPI M, that's humiliating. Where is the extra 0.7lb going? That's more than the difference between an ESAPI or XSAPI. Hell, it's the difference between a Hesco 4601 or actually 10x12 Adept Colossus.>the highcom 3++ did better than this unironicallyThe 3S9M? That's a $1k/set plate with a thick-ass PE backer. You're comparing it to a fiberglass budget IV. Of course it's going to put on a better multi-hit show.By the way, has anyone noticed how much of a ripoff the 3S9M is, given it only has an Alumina strike face but is in Silicon Carbide price territory?>>65569596It appears my analogy that digital NV is akin to steel plates is... decisively on the money.
My search for a plastic frisby plate continues. If we dropped down to hg2, how thin could we get here? Slick territory or is soft armor the better route?
>>65569639The gap between HG2 / IIIA and RF1 / III is a canyon ten miles wide. You sure you want to do that? Basic rifle threats will penetrate HG2 five times over, easily.If you're firm on this, the Hesco P210 is a pound for legit 10x12 and only 0.27" thick, $300 a set. Be warned it's actually a "special pistol threat" plate, not even IIIA, and is only good for 3x multi-hit on listed threats, not the NIJ IIIA mandated 6x minimum. However, it'll do non-AP 5.7x28mm and 7.62x25mm. That's beyond the scope of IIIA.Be warned that if you're in Chinatown they probably have the steel-core 7.62x25 from Norinco which will pop this shit easy. You need very special, beefy, thick soft armor for that, or, you know, rifle plates.https://sierratac.com/product/hesco-200-series-armor-level-iiia-stand-alone-plate-p210/https://sierratac.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/sierratac-hesco-P210-tech-sheet.pdf>Slick territory or is soft armor the better route?This is gonna sound goofy but quality soft armor is actually way more expensive. Highcom SA2910 is comparable to the P210 on special threats but is over $1k/set for BALCS front + back medium. Cheaper soft is available from Gilliam and Militech.
>>65569639And this is unofficial, since there is no official IIIA+ or IIIB rating under any NIJ spec, but here is Pinnacle Armor's chart from about 2006. It shows a good pecking order for various oddball pistol threats. As you can see, 7.62x25 steel core is in league with much tougher stuff in the IIIB category, including KTW metal-piercing ammo. This is all stuff beyond the rating of the Hesco P210, too, since it is explicitly only rated for generic "non-AP" 5.7 or 7.62x25. KTWs have been out of production for many years but there's still some hanging around. It was the infamous "teflon coated bullet" the media went on a frenzy about decades ago. Thus, it is an "ambient threat" if you will, kinda like M2AP.And yeah, some literature on the P210 says 0.24" thick, other documents say 0.27", I always assume the uglier number is the true one given the spotty issue of "variance."
>>65569596>>65569615Nerfanon here. While analog NV is far superior to active-IR digitals in almost every technical way, after exhaustive and fun experimentation I found that digitals do have some practical use cases in non-combat situations and/or against non-peer threats, such as wildlife observation/hunting, property surveillance (checking out bumps in the night), and avoiding criminals/homeless in urban areas. Deer, homeless addicts, and your average Crip don't have NV and never will; against them you are the one-eyed man in the land of the blind. The cheapness of digitals and their near-complete immunity to bright light damage are also pluses, especially for trainers/loaners. If your stupid "friend" or 10-year old cousin stares directly into a blindingly bright LED street light for half an hour straight, or drops them onto concrete from the third story balcony, would you rather them do it to your legit PVS-14 or a $35 Chinesium digital mono? Also, don't forget that the best NVDs are technically digitals, because last I checked there's no feasible analog thermals. LARPing as the Predator with a $400 Infiray is absolutely fucking awesome, which leads me to the last rule of NV: all NVs, even digitals, are fucking FUN. My first NVD was a Nerf Modulus Day/Night Scope, rigged with an old TV remote for additional/better IR illumination. Shit objectively sucks but hell, it's a blast playing with it even today, and the local raccoons still don't realize I can see them sneaking around on the fence in total darkness with the shittiest $20 NVD in existence. Sometimes I also use my Nightfox Cape to see when I walk to my car after work, because I want to avoid any hobos sleeping in dark corners of the street and it's always fun to operate operationally, even with cheap-ass digitals.tl;dr: Digitals have some small advantages and uses, in some cases even better than analog, and they are always FUN.
Range wknd
>>65569863ATACs camos are so good, shame nobody uses them other than ziggers
