>the right is correct in socioeconomic thought and policies but only leftoids will take you in what do we do troonsisters
>it's a good idea to have 95% of all wealth controlled by 10 families and for the average adult to have a child's understanding of how reality is arranged>also we should shit up the biosphere right away as fast as possible because it's possible some future people might invent portable antimatter reactors or something and also iron man on bird app will take me and my family into space with him when the earth blows up because I am a temporarily embarrassed millionaire and we're not so different he and I>also even though I supposedly support free markets and competition, I actually don't support those things when it interferes with the hoarding of wealth or the free movement of labor between companies or labor markets>also ensuring a large % of the people are desperately impoverished and in living in constant fear and have a shitload of communicable diseases is absolutely necessary because otherwise nobody would be motivated to workYeah those all sound like great policies, sounds like we should put you in charge
>>35549724Embrace Classical Liberalism
capitalism needs socialism the same way that a car needs breaks and a gearshift. socialism needs capitalism the way the bulls needed Michael Jordan
>>35549832>capitalism needs socialism the same way that a car needs breaks and a gearshift. socialism needs capitalism the way the bulls needed Michael JordanThe proletariat needs socialism the same way that a car needs breaks and a gearshift. The bourgeoisie needs capitalism the way the bulls needed Michael Jordan.Except for rich people no one needs capitalism, capitalism isn't the only way to produce goods.
>>35549797>communismle happy fairytale ideology has arrivedI remember being 14 too anon
>>35549861You randroids have been saying I'm going to turn into a righoid when I get old and have a high paid job and own property. Well I'm old, and have a high paid job, and own property, and I'm still a commie. Rightism is a disease.
>>35549724>shes still following the garbage two party system>she doesn’t want to replicate the Roman Empire and bring back crucifixions & floggings faketrans
>>35549860Capitalism, can allow members of the proletariat to become bourgeoisie
I'm just a very racist socialist.
>>35549824Mises thought the state made people gay (based)
>>35549861you know not everything's as black and white as rightoids and commies? you fell for the culture war bullshit huh anon
>>35549879>a-and then everyone was heckin equal and society was perfect! and there was no more greed and nobody was ever power hungry again and human nature totally changed!!! and then the state just heckin withered away and we all lived happily ever after in our stateless perfect society just like in my dreams!!!!sureeeee
>>35549860shut the fuck up bunkertard.>>35549832Can people stop using the fucking word capitalism like it is some form of ideology or mode of governance? It simply isn't. And it never will be no matter how many delusional people that heard of marx once try to reason about bullcrap like this. To make any claims of capitalism being "needed" or worse, to "oppose" it is about as retarded as making the same claims about thermodynamics. Capitalism is simply the dynamics that arise when human (ir)rational actors produce and distribute finite resources. Capitalism as a mechanic transcends even the existence of capital. All it needs is the finiteness of a human lifespan.
>>35549904the cat in their photo is literally reading the communist manifesto you mongoloid
>>35549906Yeah, having not throwing librarians in prison and funding health care through taxes is EXACTLY like "changing human nature", another brilliant rightist take
>>35549904I mean it kind of is in america, if you don't believe in hanging black people as a public spectacle when they glance at a white woman it makes you literally the same as karl marx.
>>35549879Seems you're not paying your FAIR SHARE.>>35549907Great definition of capitalism, the only issue that arises is that lefties and righties define capitalism differently.
>>35549925have you actually read the communist manifesto? I suspect not based on this comment because if you think everyone is just going to be heckin equal and nobody will ever want more than someone else then you are a literal retard who doesn't understand human nature
>>35549939I hope the walton family sees this bro
>>35549941Nice rightoid word salad, can you throw in something vaguely racist about "the bartender" having a $100 dress and that's champagne socialism and maybe equate school lunches to the Reign of Terror?
>>35549907>Capitalism is simply the dynamics that arise when human (ir)rational actors produce and distribute finite resourcesGenuinely shut the fuck up you retard, what's the point in using your fingers to type if you're going to type the usual dumb shit ? Capitalism is a model, economists have always and will alway analyze it under that lense but because some bumfuck ass nigga from 4chan with a bob ass haircut said it was human nature then ... fuck'em i guess ? Your mother should've beat your head even harder when you were a toddler at least you'd have just been a full retard instead of a halfwit.
>>35549970>the """socialist""" has never read the communist manifesto and has no idea what it or socialism or communism actually means or entails and calls my accurate description of it a "word salad"thanks lol I’m shocked maybe read a book retard I’m not even right wing lmao I’m just not an autistic socialist because it’s such a blatantly retarded ideology if you actually read it, which you clearly have not since you don’t even understand what I’m saying
>>35549724Do what is right. Be good citizens and engage with other people.To a lot of conversative people being trans is the same as being the latex dog pride piss parade people. Instead they need to know that you or I can switch sexes so you are already have and they can't do anything about it except guarantee third party votes.
>>35549724Not be retarded lol. Vote as left as possible at wvery opurtunity. Do everything possible to shift the broader poltics of the nation left. I think the future goal should be to create somekind of vanguard party/force. I think we’re going to pass the point of a purely political solution. We’re sliding backwards into a dogma of violence and greed. Democracy is on its last legs imo. I would just try to position ones self in a place where they can weather what comes.
>>35549986Maybe try not sounding like an 80 year old reactionary facebook boomer from flyover land if. you want to have a real conversation. Call enough reasonable people "commies" and we start taking it as a compliment. You're incapable of rational thought. Good luck fighting off those "squatters" news corp told you about.
>>35549939>he only issue that arises is that lefties and righties define capitalism differentlyrightoids simply don't. They "I know it when I see it" everything anyway since anything beyond appeal to intuition is fundamentally incompatible with rightoid rhetoric. It's why people like peterson can keep up their ratoinalist larp only until they actually try to make any rightoid talking points that aren't nicely abstracted away or academic nitpicking of statistics (things like his reasoning on why gender parity in occupations is statistically unreasonable even if mean inclinations are only weakly gender dependent are mathematically sound). The moment they actually have to justify their own ilk's logic beyond that they turn into babbling methheads.As for leftoids, most of them flat out lack the cognition or will to view economics through a lens that is not ideological. It is simply not an easy win and would require to actually build a verifiable model of the world rather than just spitball nice sounding ideas.>>35549976>Capitalism is a model, economists have always and will alway analyze it under that lenseSo is classical mechanics, shit for brains. We only ever have models. Your rhetoric reeks of the leftoid equivalent of "evolution is just a theory!!".
>>35550008>”you’re incapable of rational though!” he says while calling anyone who challenges socialism a rightoid reactionary boomer despite never having even read the communist manifestothe memes about socialists having no idea what they’re advocating for literally write themselves lol
>>35550039Le enlightened centrist has arrived>>35550056Poo poo pee pee
>>35550039Fair, a lot of righties fall for the sane issues in basic econ leftoids do, like thinking tariffs can possibly work in a modern economy. How they got tricked so easily boggles my mind.
>>35550071Centrist are just little men. Little Nazis in waiting. They will stand back and let who ever wins stomp their nuts flat lol.
>>35550039>So is classical mechanics, shit for brains. We only ever have models. Your rhetoric reeks of the leftoid equivalent of "evolution is just a theory!!".Oh my god this is beyond brain rot, yes we can only observe genius, we have models of phenomenons (mechanics and evolution) and SYSTEMS (capitalism). But because you're so dumb in your little mind you've essentialized capitalism to be a fucking natural event when it is a sociological construct that started at some point in history which is a thing 99% of active economists agree on. Genuinely, go read a book.
>>35550071I never said I was a centrist. I am a left leaning. I am nonetheless disgusted by the average californian bunkertroon and their crabs in a bucket "with us or against us" bullshit.
>>35550109
>>35550096Tariffs can sometimes "work", it depends on your definition of "work". The chicago school likes to cite import substitution in latin america as a supposedly obvious example of why free trade is the only way but brazil now has one of the world's best aerospace companies thanks to tariffs, meanwhile free trade USA USA is watching its aerospace industry crash and burn, in fact the reason leftist policies had such a mixed record in latam is that the CIA went on a murder rampage down there for like 30 years straight>>35550109No you're not, you're just a screeching reactionary moron shit for brains who gets riled up at the sight of a cat reading a book
>>35550107>a sociological construct that started at some point in history which is a thing 99% of active economists agree on.That is simply because capitalism is usually treated as an economic system and thought of in terms of capital. If you had read my original post and not just barged into a conversation to be a smug redditor about how you are enlightened by your own intelligence and I am a dum dum, you might have caught on that I said this is, simply put, missing a central point of the mechanics from which capitalism arises. To give a concrete example, having people in an office environment depending on each other's work and negotiating time in a day they dedicate to each other's needs is a fundamentally capitalist framework and rule system, it's a social game. The commodity in this case is human lifetime, or man hours, that are being exchanged for goods and services.>>35550124Go be fat somewhere else, larper.>>35550138>who gets riled up at the sight of a cat reading a bookThat wasn't me, maybe stick to twitter if you don't know how to read a thread and keep track of who's who.
>>35550124>>35550138Way to repel someone who might be a fencesitter
>>35550221Yeah I used to support human rights and then someone called me a mean name on 4chan and now I support genocide
>>35549724retard spotted
>>35550138aren't US aerospace companies reliant on government contracts? But generally, tariffs are not good for an economy. Though i will admit that taking the sort of economist take is not perfect. Like add any other reason, like national sovereignty and a tariff is a lot easier to justify. But they can not help an economy as a whole.
>>35550221They don't want to convince people, anon. They want to be right. It's the reason why edgelords these days aren't necessarily left leaning. >>35550232given both of these "supports" boil down to impotent shitposting and identity play, yes, that is pretty much how the average 20something 4channer engaging in political "discourse" operates. It's all the same to a contrarian. (You) don't support jack shit. You talk. It's all you do.
>>35550200What i'm arguing is that this "Capitalism is simply the dynamics that arise when human (ir)rational actors produce and distribute finite resources" you've opened with is simply factually wrong and can be easily disproven not even by studying economy but simply history of history of economies. I read your post, it was simply false and advancing an uneducated opinion as a hard fact. Furthermore > That is simply because capitalism is usually treated as an economic systemAnd why do you think economists analyze capitalism as a system ? Because it's one genius. When speaking of the example you give it only accoutns for a part of capitalism which is the rationalization of production, an extremely new event that is not the only way of production and that is not fateful. > it's a social gameYeah ... a system.
>>35550237All aerospace companies of any significance are heavily reliant on government contracts. The point is that unless you are specific about what "success" means when evaluating a policy (any policy, it doesn't have to be economic), it's very easy to just say it was a big embarrassing failure because it's easy to pick something superficially related that seems like people would have wanted a different outcome, and claim that the policy was why this "unintended consequence" happened (you'll notice if you follow the rightoid economic ideologues, they're all about this 'unintended consequences' thing as if the world being a multivariable equation means we should just hand everything over to the oligarchs).Prior to import substitution brazil was basically just farmland and mines. Thanks to tariffs they're somewhat of a real country, you can say oh they have crime they have inequality and whatever but if they hadn't done what they did they would just be a giant namibia at this point.
>I don’t have the critical thinking skills or knowledge to actually have a discussion so I’ll just call everyone who disagrees with me a braindead rightoidUnironically why are leftists like this?
>>35550296The issue of variables is just an issue of economics in general. You can compare A B and C and have to deal with X Y and Z all the time. There is no easy fix due to the complexity of modern economies. Trying to simulate it takes far more than any modern computer can calculate.
>>35550348Aww poor babby got kicked out of the grownups table when they didn't want to listen to his ayn rand drivel
>>35550348> Unironically why are leftists like this?Oh shut up faggot, as if that's not 99% of arguments online regardless of political agenda.
>>35550354Because you're trying to evaluate economics as though you alone know all the answers. Economics is just a language that can hopefully be used by different people with different (and perhaps conflicting) priorities to arrive at something like a stalemate or consensus on what kinds of policies most people can pretty much live with. I think you're hung up on the idea of there being a "best policy" but that just isn't how it works. No matter what you do (even if you do nothing), you're "picking winners and losers", the rightoids just like to go after policies where they don't like the choices and call that "picking winners and losers" meanwhile there is another choice - still a choice mind you - that could just as accurately be called picking winners and losers, but THEY call it "the natural outcome of rational market participants" or some such thing to make it sound like it's not just the same game arranged in a way that favors them.
>>35550285>is simply factually wrong and can be easily disproven not even by studying economy but simply history of history of economies. I have yet to address the elephant in the room that economists don't actually usually talk about "capitalism" at all, and that the term has no canonical definition to begin with. Worse, again, nowhere does the distribution of finite resources even imply economics. >When speaking of the example you give it only accoutns for a part of capitalism which is the rationalization of productionyou don't even understand the example then. I could easily modify the example to not include any notion of work or production of any kind. I could spend the next 12+ hours slowly leading you along like the disabled child you act like but that's a lost cause. I am not giving you any more of the precious commodity that is my time in exchange for your drivel. Human patience by the way would be an excellent example of an emotional response following the same mechanics I talked about in my original post. But you will dismiss that.>Yeah ... a system.of course there could be many interesting things said about your conflation of the two, but honestly, you are just the average coastie subhuman to busy with being right to actually entertain foreign ideas and trying to make them work for you. Your understanding is limited, and you have no interest in entertaining foreign thought, too busy showcasing your undergrad economics dunning kruger powers.
>>35550444>I have yet to address the elephant in the room that economists don't actually usually talk about "capitalism" at all. Yo ucan find dozens of pages of research papers talking about it right now on google scholars in 5 minutes, more if you have access to any platform of publishing. Don't even need to adress the books, genuinely wtf are you yapping about. This is insane. > of course there could be many interesting things said about your conflation of the twoA social game implies a system which is it's core if you can't understand that you don't udnerstand what a game is.Your point made no sense whatsoever learn write and structure an argument, go to college or read about it idk.All the rest is pointless yapping, i can't believe you tried to call me a redittor > I am not giving you any more of the precious commodity that is my time in exchange for your drivelSure nerd, read a book, being a nerd and dumb is super lame, you've got the worst of both worlds.
>>35550260>>35550221I dont want “fencesitters” lol. Other anon is semi on target. Im just here to make fun of people. I don’t really think its possible to change peoples minds on this stuff via 4chan. I am le tankie, but in person I am more serious/optics concious. It takes a lot for someone to have a change of heart on politics. I think most people have to work through it on their own to an extent.>>35550200Oh c’mon have some fun.
>>35550528> more if you have access to any platformsci-hub.>Yo ucan find dozens of pages of research papers talking about it right now And you clearly have read none of them, since even a brief look at a random sample of a dozen should show you that they usually talk about "capitalist XYZ" without ever really defining it as a rigorous concept. And I said canonical. There is a reason wikipedia says what it says on the subject. >>35550539>Oh c’mon have some fun.You know, you are more entertaining than the faggot above.
>>35550594Thx anon :3 have another ak pic
Communism is doing literally anything to try to make things less shitty. This is why whenever someone calls you a commie you should just agree.
>>35550756The meme is actually of a climate activist saying that capitalism is the problem with the climate IIRC (paraphrasing here).
>>35550858Well capitalism is the largest factor in the inability of my govt to pass meaningful climate legislation. Really any legislation at all.
