>>36642648
No but you should find a hot gayden bf instead anyway

yeah

>>36642678
thats the thing i have an insane fixation on cock. and if i date another ftm then he'll always feel lesser. i know genital preference isnt wrong, i dont blame people for not wanting to date me because i have a pussy, but i at least want them to see me as men outside of dating shit

why do poons pretend they can suffer

>>36642648
Yes. Please don't have you pretty boobies removed, pleaaaase

same fucking boat pooner bro

Why don't FtMs realize that society doesn't even see men who are attracted to men as actual men? Is that why you guys wear makeup and paint your nails and then act baffled when people treat you like a disgusting hairy rapist psuedogirl? Because that's what happens to cis men, too

>>36642738
i might just be celibate for life. id have ftm only friends if i could so that i wouldnt feel like "the woman" of a man friend group

>>36642747
i dont do that stuff we're not a hivemind

>>36642747
A real man wears his disgusting hairy rapist badge with pride.

>>36642648
Just accept that the only men willing to date you are bisexual

>>36642747
>Why don't FtMs realize that society doesn't even see men who are attracted to men as actual men?
you're being willfully loose with your words. even people who hate gay people would acknowledge, if pressed, that gay guys are technically biological males/real men. but in terms of their character, they are far from the ideal. with FtMs, they're far from the ideal, but for women, because they are biological females.

>>36642881
GNC cis males are biologically male but are not treated as such and that's pretty much all that matters day to day or in terms of upbringing

>>36642898
theyre not treated with the same privilege but are aknowledged as men by everyone. which is a pooners dream

>>36642648
Grow a beard retard

>>36642946
i only get pooner pubes on my chin

>>36642898
I do not mean to be rude, but again, I think you're not accurately describing things. sure gnc cis men are often treated differently from the average guy, but the people who are treating them that way still think they're men; and they don't treat them the same as gnc cis women. how gnc cis males are treated compared to pooners is not comparable when you get to the specifics.

>>36642938
>>36642987
They're only acknowledged as "men" in so far that they're assumed to have a penis inbetween their legs. They're not treated the way "a real man" is. It's not equivalent to how cis women are treated either, it's much worse. Manhood has a very, very narrow window of what is allowed or you don't have a manhood at all

>>36643114
its astounding how many trans men dont get this, and dont realise that while they think they ae presenting as a "feminine male" everyone sees them as a woman

>>36643181
okay but i dont. i know ill look even more like a girl if i stop trying to pass so hard all the time

>>36643114
>They're only acknowledged as "men" in so far that they're assumed to have a penis inbetween their legs
you're leaving out that they're criticized in a particular manner. a gnc guy is not going to be reproached how a gnc woman is, and how they're advised to conduct themselves is different. pooners aren't going to be told "be a real man" but rather "be a real woman". the problem OP has is that she's worried she's not gonna be treated as a real man - whether ideal or not. gnc men aren't always treated as ideal men, but they're still treated like *some* sort of man with the potential to be more ideal. so
>Why don't FtMs realize that society doesn't even see men who are attracted to men as actual men?
is not an appropriate rebuttal or consolation.

>>36642648
This shit is all about vibes, if you act more masc than them they won't question it however 9/10 FtMs can't help but still act like annoying women.

>>36643471
tell that to the 5'6 and below pooners with shitty facial hair and a distinctly raspy voice, i.e. most of them

>>36643569
i.e OP

>>36643569
Physical appearance has little impact to whether you'll be seen as one of the boys. My cis best friend for many years looks exactly like that however he's still one of the manliest guys I know.

>>36643848
>one of the maliest guys I know
not necessarily the best metric to go by when making more general claims about pooner's potential passibility in wider society. also
>looks exactly like that
I'm skeptical whether they look and sound like most pooners, but even if they do, that's one person against the rest of society. when they get direct evidence of them not passing, it'll make it hit that much harder if they have a false sense of how people perceive them. you're really not doing these people any favors by exaggerating how easy it is for them to pass.

>>36643987
It is a good metric, simply act manly. If you can't do that you're forced to forever be a gayden even if you pass physically. Also yes, he's shorter than his gf and has basically peach fuzz for facial hair despite being well into his 20s. Not a deep voice either so if he can do it so can everyone else.

Certainly better than coddling them, aka treating them like women which is what you've been doing this entire time.

>>36644334
>It is a good metric, simply act manly
if your sense of manly conforms with society, yes. but obviously plenty of lgbtq people have a lack of understanding in that regard, even a distorted sense. I had a pooner in my college department who wore makeup and cosplayed (typical fujo) and thought she was so masculine.
>Also yes, he's shorter than his gf and has basically peach fuzz for facial hair despite being well into his 20s
okay but there are still other common facial feature differences between males and females that "vibes" aren't going to erase - not to mention other features of our figures. and we're quite keen on subtle facial features as humans, generally speaking. even AI programs can clock these things.
>Not a deep voice either so if he can do it so can everyone else
you don't have to have a deep voice as long as it has a realistic tone and pitch. it's pretty easy to tell when trans people fake their voice by trying to talk deeper or higher. and if they talk normal with their hormone-altered voice, even that tends to be noticeable. some cases are better than others, but you often get either a not-quite-feminine-not-quite-masculine voice or a straight up alien voice.
>Certainly better than coddling them, aka treating them like women which is what you've been doing this entire time
>pooner: will I ever pass?
>me: probably not
>(you): it's just vibes!
yeah, *I'm* the one coddling them

>>36644529
Work on that then, observe and implement how men act into your person. If you're a retard out of touch with reality that's entirely your own fault.

Yes, he's also chubby especially in the face. Do you have any actual point or just excuses? HRT takes care of voice for you, be glad you didn't get the short end of the stick MtFs do. You can always claim chain-smoking as the culprit.

No you troglodyte, I've said they can easily pass given proper work put into the personality aspect. Unlike with trans women who are fucked if they didn't luck out with genetics men don't have to look a certain way to be seen as a man. We are invisible by default, if you just conform to that instead of being an attention seeking faggot it's as easy as pie.

>>36644842
>HRT takes care of voice for you
most trans people on hormones do not have a passing voice. for some it can more easily go unnoticed, but with minimal concentration you can most often tell there's something off. and, again, sometimes they're really off and hardly sound human. HRT is hardly a panacea in that regard or any other.
>claim chain-smoking
yeah just lie about a key aspect of your (past) behavior, especially with something that is not uncommonly looked down upon.
>I've said they can easily pass given proper work put into the personality aspect
which is a gross exaggeration
>men don't have to look a certain way to be seen as a man. We are invisible by default
the average man isn't well-regarded for his looks, but that doesn't mean we don't notice general physical differences within them.
>Unlike with trans women who are fucked if they didn't luck out with genetics
dude, the reality of sexual dimorphism can't be crucial for trans women if it's not also crucial for trans men - in theory or in practice. if males need luck in order to more easily fit female appearances, then that necessarily implies that the same is true for females.

I'm not sure we're gonna make much ground past this point, as we both seem quite set in our ways. so you can have the last word, if you like.

>>36645071
I'm getting sick of this conversation, go doomer somewhere else you lazy bitch. Men don't wear form-fitting clothes so you can easily pass yet again even if your biology doesn't match. Entire worth of women is derived from their looks, with men hardly anyone cares which means it's much easier to pass, again passing =/= being good looking. You need lucky genetics to pass as Chad, not as a run of the mill Joe. Accept these basic facts or fuck off, ideally both.