Are gay flamers "born that way" in terms of having a fagcent and sounding different in their voice and their mannerisms, or is it something they deliberately put on to be obnoxious and attention-seeking due to narcissism?
born that way
a mix of things you colossal retard. there will be a baseline level of feminity from the womb & no fucking shit nurture will play a role too. fucking idiot
>>36943541they're born in a way that makes them predisposed to start mimicking others with their combination of masc/fem traits as they learn their own mannerisms, just like everyone else but attuned to a different demographic, so flamers 6000 years ago probably acted very differently but in ways that would have been culturally recognizable immediately as in-between or contrasting
>>36944135I don't think it's a mix, I think it is purely nature.
>>36943541Yeah they’re born that way Flamers are actually females trapped in male bodies that’s why they can never convincingly sound like a straight male even with practice
>>36944194I think they are feminine men but for whatever reason people cannot accept the idea of a man who is naturally feminine, but in a way that still leads him to be closer to male than female.
>>36944159Nature is a key factor, but nurture/environment will influence to what extent certain behaviours are developed.>>36944194that's retarded too and you're just projecting your sicko tranny bullshit
>>36943541When where the girls exclusively in childhood you learn to pick up their mannerisms. Case closed
>>36944216that take is almost as retarded and pigheaded as you
>>36944215>but nurture/environment will influence to what extent certain behaviours are developed.nopeyou either have the genetics to produce a fagcent or you don't
>>36944194 some of us transition because we never get any kudos for presenting as male
>>36944228That doesn't contradict what I said tard.
>>36944207>>36944215Flamers are male in body only. They are literally women everyone who interacts with one knows this. The reason they sometime do male things is because they were forced to from male socialization. If they were born with female bodies they would be 100% female in both body and spirit.
>if afab women were raised around men they would still sound like women>but somehow if flamers were raised around men they would sound male, and if raised around females, they sound faggy
>>36944225You can criticize all you want but it's the truth. Some of us never really have developed a male ego
>>36944244No you're just a retard tranny projecting retard tranny bullshit. You don't even converse in an effeminate manner
>>36944237Flamers are feminine men.
>>36944237You're right, at the same time you're wrong. Some of us never do anything male. We still persist on being feminine
>>36944262AGP stop pretending to be a flamer
>>36944249>effeminate mannerBecause I'm naturally feminine
>>36944207>for whatever reason people cannot accept the idea of a man who is naturally feminine,Because it's gross. Even men who behave half masculine and half feminine are disgusting.
>>36944270No at first I thought you were a regular bloke. Still do.
>>36944271Maybe you learned to feel that it is gross from others but the fagcent itself is built in.
>>36944265You're jealous of flamers? I came out gay when I was 13 years old and have never really been anything else other than gay since the beginning. I'm more gay than I'm transgenderYou are jealous of anyone not like you. Even gay flamer!
>>36944274I'm a regular feminine gay male
>>36943541Regardless of the voice I had femme mannerisms as a very young child.
>>36944299they go together
>>36944299I use my voice and if people can't see me they always call me ma'am or Miss. Can be annoying at times
>>36944288tbqh i just have a headache and i felt like being bitchy
>>36944316It's frustrating for me when everybody is heterosexual crossdresser etiology.
My mtf girlfriend had a fagcent when we met, and she was homophobic at the time.
>>36944328do those two traits go together particularly often?
>>36944337I dunno, but it shows that she wasn't mimicking it deliberately. Her friends don't sound that way either. It's possible her voice is like that because her father died at the onset of puberty so she learned to speak like her mom.
>>36944374Well, if she was a real homosexual flamer, she would not want to transition, unless she was homophobic. Otherwise, why would she want to transition?
It's not a put-on btw, it's a woman's affect with the resonance of a man, which is what you would expect from a homo given that they're basically women.
>>36944394True, true. It's why gay men are trying so hard to use tranny rhetoric to justify why they're not naturally feminine, when we all know we are as children. It doesn't make us want to be women because what's the point in being a woman, if you're not attracted to them?
>>36944417>It doesn't make us want to be women because what's the point in being a woman, if you're not attracted to them?You're being facetious, but the top shortage for one, the fact that other homos give me the ick, and that being normal beats living in the gay ghetto, whether you're literally in a gayborhood or just perceptually stuck in the gay-zone in cishet people's heads.
>>36944391True, I would never call her a flamer, but she has a pretty severe fagcent that she wasn't in control of. I can't answer the question for flamers but for mtf she exists as an example of it not being a choice.
>>36944238boyish (in the bad way) tomboys are a thing, anon
>>36944469tomboys are not accused of having male voices lol
>>36944485That's because it's impossible for females to sound like males, retard. Even with male inflection, you'll sound like a pre pubescent boy at best which on an adult just sounds like a woman. FTM voice training is shit pre-T unless you're a generic anomaly with a deep voice.
>>36944444Idk, it sounds like she has a homophobic reaction, or he's a heterosexual male who plays mind games? Why would a feminine homosexual want to ruin their sex drive and destroy their body by taking estrogen?
>>36944391>Otherwise, why would she want to transition?gender dysphoria
>>36944506>or is it something they deliberately put on to be obnoxious and attention-seeking due to narcissism?As a boring hoodie and jeans and football hat guy approaching 30 I'm not terribly offended if other people do not conform to the very narrow box of acceptable male behavior, I'm just glad I naturally fit within the box and have an easier time blending in with straight people.
>>36944506yup, hence why women are often accused of being squeakers in games
>>36944508You are basing your opinion on her over a short post about 1 quality of her on 4chan. It's amusing that this is the conclusion you jump to from it.
>>36944514The word does not mean what you think it means. It's not like a covid virus one catches. Gay men only have gender dysphoria as children. Once their bodies developed, they become sexually attracted to their bodies. They want to be masculine looking as possible
>>36944536We all see things through our own personal colored lens. I see everything through a gay male lens. I'm perplexed and amused by transgender thinking because it's so opposite of being gay.
>>36944538whereas hsts become attracted to children?
>>36944279>Maybe you learned to feel that it is gross from others but the fagcent itself is built in.No no no. I assure you it's innately disgusting to some level. Homophobia and disgust towards effeminate men and butch women is natural.
>>36946438nah i think it's learned via brainwashing
>>36944545>opposite of being gayIn what sense?
>>36943541Bro... the amount of tops I meet on grindr with gay voice, it irritates mdhwrhe
>>36943541born, homosexuals are estrogenized in the womb and tend to imitate the behaviors and mannerisms of women instead of other men because they are attracted to masculinity
>>36947221>and tend to imitate the behaviors and mannerisms of womenif they were raised somehow only around men, would they not have a fagcent?
>>36943541nobody has an all-encompassing vocal range anon
>>36946313There's no such thing as hsts because if they were truly homosexual they wouldn't transition because they'd be the opposite of their sexual interest. Everyone wants to look handsome to themselves you cannot do that and have a body with large sacks of fat hanging off your chest, a huge fat ass and no dick
>>36943541i love gay flamers <3
>>36947648they transition because their object of interest is masculine straight men and most gay men no matter how masculine they attempt to present as, can never live up to that.
>>36947648im too stoned for this
>>36947790This is your creative imagination working overtime. Most of us are more than content with other gay men. The idea that some men are attracted to the idea of being with heterosexual men is founded in men that are just coming out gay. Once they have gone beyond that coming out stage we always go with other men who are gay because its common senseFollowing the strain of your thinking I come to conclusion that most trannies are failed gay men who don't come out properly. The only way they can get off on minutes by thinking that they are women because they have so much homophobia
>>36947920fags really are women, they're so fucking dumb holy shit
>>36943541mentioned this before but I know tons of actual linguistics research that pretty much all affirms it's socially learned. But also, I watched literal babies learn to talk in the south while working at a bible daycamp and there were kids 1 and 2 years old learning to speak with the fagcent and mannerisms with wildly unsupportive families and who never would be able to pick it up from christian media. So I have no idea. Definitely not calling the research wrong but it doesn't explain those kids.
>>36947959or that nobody understands the precise genetic basis of speech differences yet
>>36947920massive cope, gay men are attracted to masculinity and straight men are the most masculine men. the most common fantasy in gay porn is straight men going gay, most fags demand their partners be "straight-acting", if a gay man could get a straight guy interested he absolutely would pick him over other homosexuals. hsts just take this attraction one step beyond
>>36947959>>36947968lot of people don't really want to acknowledge that there would be innate 'indicators' of homosexuality that are visible from a young age, even if they accept the born-this-way etiology, because it has uncomfortable implications. not just fagccent but also digit ratio and "gayface"
>>36948120It means we are essentially physically and psychologically more feminine in any straight man who is AGP
>>36948120>because it has uncomfortable implicationssuch as?
>>36948113Think whatever you want but I've been gay over 10 years out as gay and I'll tell you one thing only Young gay boys under 25 fantasize about being gay and those ones usually haven't come out more than a year. Most mature self-accepting gay men don't even think about straight men.
>>36948156there's a ton of gay porn targeted as being straight menflamboyant men are nearly invisible in most porn except dedicated "twink" and "femboy" porn
>>36948212You're talking about porn not real life. Have you ever been to a gay bar I practically was raised in gay bars I came out gay when I was 13 started going to bars when I was 17. I know everything there is to know about being gay. And being a tranny is definitely not desirable
>>36948225real life men are watching that porn and enjoy it or they would have different sorts of men in the porn
>>36948156you and other "mature" gay may not consciously think about straight men, but you still want the gay men you are attracted to, to be complete mirrors of them.
>>36943541its nurture since gays here in europe dont have it
>>36944159Fagcent is natural for some and learned for others. This has been explained countless times. Why are the same threads constantly recreated?
>>36944159If you think that you're low IQ or you have some stupid agenda, either way it's probably pointless to make you accept the obvious truth that it isn't 100% nature
>>36948310What would the implications be if it were natural for all?
>>36948212the most popular gay pornstars are usually gay for pay as well
>>36948351that homosexuality is a condition that manifests itself across multiple levels? there was even an ai that could tell apart gays and lesbians from straights just from their features
>>36948390Are people ever told to repress or hide or downplay their fagcentedness?
>>36943541i don't really act like a flamer but I wear women's clothes and skirts sometimes. do you think everyone thinks I'm gay
>>36948152the idea that a gay man isn't just "a dude who happens to like dudes", indistinguishable from a straight male except for what gets his dick hard, but is instead akin to having a neurological intersex conditionhomosexuality (especially between males) is still disapproved of, if not outright illegal in much of the world, but at least in those places you can stay in the closet and keep out of trouble because enforcement depends on catching gays in the act or primitive measures like anal examinations (not joking, this is a thing in several countries). but imagine if there was a highly efficient homo-detecting AI like >>36948390 mentions
>>36948449>homo recognition cameras fined you gayface in public again
>>36948401lmao yes, having a fagcent as a kid is one of the easiest ways to get bullied. and even as an adult other gay men will reject you if you are not masc enough in other areas to compensate,
>>36948299Of course and gay men are attracted to masculinity and usually are more interested in bodybuilding and becoming a sex object in any straight guy ever thought about. Straight men are dull and boring to most gay men who are successfully integrated with having a gay identity
>>36948390>there was even an ai that could tell apart gays and lesbians from straights just from their featuresBullshit marketing ploy, bet there's a significant failure rate
>>36948474Looks image must be masculine. Gay men are a little more forgiving about personality and a gay man with a feminine voice is not as ridiculed as you imagine. As long as he's got a well-developed body and masculine presentation
>>36948467I mean it is ridiculous but that's 100% what some conservatives dream of and would implement if given free reignthey'll start looking for "indicators" and do eugenics/forced reeducation on mere suspicion of being zesty
>>36948486https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/deep-neural-networks-are-more-accurate-humans-detecting-sexual>Given a single facial image, a classifier could correctly distinguish between gay and heterosexual men in 81% of cases, and in 74% of cases for women. Human judges achieved much lower accuracy: 61% for men and 54% for women. The accuracy of the algorithm increased to 91% and 83%, respectively, given five facial images per person.
>>36948536This was based on the AI detecting superficial differences like propensity to shave, wear glasses, or use eyeshadow. https://medium.com/@blaisea/do-algorithms-reveal-sexual-orientation-or-just-expose-our-stereotypes-d998fafdf477
>>36948526What if they knew exactly which genetic sequence caused gayness?
>>36948560cope
>>36948449>the idea that a gay man isn't just "a dude who happens to like dudes", indistinguishable from a straight male except for what gets his dick hard, but is instead akin to having a neurological intersex conditionisn't that the case? gay men share certain brain patterns with straight women and lesbians with straight men.
>>36948642It may be, but it's a bit of a politically incorrect idea, especially among assimilationist gay men or those who are insecure in their masculinity
>>36948626You know reasserting your argument doesn't dispel the refutation I posted, right?
>>36948626https://www.science.org/content/article/talk-hand-scientists-try-debunk-idea-finger-length-can-reveal-personality-and-healthno you
>>36948669>especially among assimilationist gay menthat's most of them, especially here
>>36944159it's a mix.>natureinborn attraction to other men>nurturesaid attraction causes them to emulate and have women as role models since they want the masculine man and not to be him like regular straight boys would
>>36948839If it were purely nature, would that bother you?
>>36948799Kind of ironic that the tranny board attracts gay men with such a high degree of derangement about trannies. It's mostly a quirk of modern Western countries that you end up with a class of gays like that. When you look at sociological research you see that in non-western countries that tolerate homosexuality, exclusively androphilic men exist as a kind of third gender (especially in older studies before the widespread available of medical transition allowed a distinction between the ones who just crossdress for fun and the ones who want actual female characteristics), with a lot of other men being bisexuals who occasionally seek them out for sex but otherwise start families with women.
>>36949005third gender is not tolerance it's isolation and othering
>>36949005>in non-western countries that tolerate homosexuality, exclusively androphilic men exist as a kind of third genderThose are umbrella categories, occupied by all kinds of people anywhere from the equivalents of gay men to transsexuals.
>>36949005it clocks them and they hate it, a certain kind of gay men wants to see himself as indistinguishable from a straight one and hates anything that reminds him that's not the case.
>>36948113Holy shit Blanchard is such a retard
>>36949100And the western model of 'tolerance' is mostly built on polite fiction and benign ignorance
>>36949266the weird part is not that it clocks you, its that people pretend they don't clock you when they do, and won't say it out loud unless you do first
>>36948390Wait, what do lesbian faces look like? I understand gayface, but idk about lesboface
>>36944140third post best post, and as usual for lgbt the simple correct answer that would offend no one is ignored in favor of 10 people who ask think they are "just pretending to be retarded" and posting "epic larp bait".
>>36949349from one random study>Lesbian women had noses that were more turned up (also more turned up in heterosexual men), mouths that were more puckered, smaller foreheads, and marginally more masculine face shapes (also in heterosexual men) than heterosexual women.in general the relationship between these kinds of things and sexuality is weaker for lesbians though
>>36949370Take ur meds samefag
>>36949283No, exclusively homosexual men prefer masculinity in their partners, even if one would go for a twink they'd choose a boyish twunk type. men into femboys are usually bi
>>36949456Some gay men prefer feminine men,
>>36949456>Source: my assblasted anus
>>36949473>>36949516Some do sure, but the majority prefers masculine men.https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091030125044.htm https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23700957/
>>36949344Yeah many people are just polite because open homophobia is a faux pas now. Straight guys still generally think something has to "make" you gay, usually absent father/overbearing mom or bad touch.
>>36949100does it really matter if people are called third gender or cis/trans as long as there is need to differentiate them there will be a word for it. which will be always
>>36949620its not polite its the opposite to pretend you don't notice flamers are flamers>Straight guys still generally think something has to "make" you gay,whywhat are the implications if nothing could make someone gay?
>>36948979Nope, I think gay men's affinity for feminine behaviors over masculine ones is nature, but fagcent just seems like a learned behavior to me
>>36949671ehh,the fact that people are pretty much born that way
>>36949671If you can't "make" someone gay then it follows that attempts to make someone not-gay would be futile. I'm old enough to remember when the debate was about the "gay lifestyle" and the idea that conversion therapy worked was still taken seriously in the media.
>>36948225The straight man fantasy is a global constant as well, even gay japanese porn markets it's men as straight and has them fuck women in their sites
>>36947959my family are intensely homophobic and conservativefor as long as i can remember my mother sits there reading the news complaining about lgbt people and my dad watches tv and complains about minoritiesgrowing up i absorbed their beliefs and i held some terrible awful thoughts which were totally incongruent with who i truly am and i'm proud to say i've grown beyondi was utterly closed off to my own sexuality and didn't even have crushes or watch porn i only even really started masturbating when i somehow stumbled into erotic literatureso i think i had a pretty unsupportive upbringing and yet i still had faggerismsi used to sing and skip around, i would spend ages grooming myself, and people would mock my voice to the point where i voice trained to make it deeper>>36947968i think a big part of it is the fundamental disposition you take with the worldbroadly women and i would say myself try to be fawning and submissive using soft speech and hedging to appear unthreatening and friendly whereas masculine attitudes are domineering, imposing, and bellicosei know that on the rare occasion i get mad enough to use my angry voice that it hurts after and guys shouting and cursing are going to reshape their voicethese attitudes are subconscious but inform all our interactionsall that said there is obviously an extent to which environment plays a role in the same sense that it does for developing any accent: being surrounded by fagcents will make you pick it up more than if you weren't
