>inb4 w-well they're grifters
...well no shit why wouldnt you try to stop someone from falling down the same self harm and destruction that they did? make it make sense

>>37775681
>why wouldnt you try to stop someone from falling down the same self harm and destruction that they did?
because for 99% of trannies it's not "self harm and destruction," it's necessary medical treatment
i should NOT be taking the fall because you can't take responsibility for your own actions and their consequences

>>37775697
spbp

>>37775669
They hate us because we are correct

>>37775697
agreed, hrt saved my life and they make me as a regular non activist trans person look like a villain for existing in public.
im not responsible for their or anyone's choices, im not brain washing or grooming anyone by living my life, and yet they're used as a bat to beat me with, their poor personal problems sewing doubt into the minds of everyone who knows im trans.
>what if my son isnt my daughter and is actually ruining their life?
ID KILL MYSELF WITH OUT THIS MEDICATION

>>37775697
this
nobody gives detranners who mind their own business shit except people intending to capitalize on them or people who were gonna be transphobic to them anyway

-they appropriate real trans people
-they get hrt and shit before a lot of us
-they make everything about them, their stupidity, and bring us already mentally ill people down, because of their own stupid separate mental illness
-they're privileged enough to access this shit, are so determined to use up resources made for trans people AND THEN FUCKING COMPLAIN ABOUT WHAT THEY DID TO THEMSELVES it's so fucking stupid

idk bro I took weed and didn't like it but I don't advocate for banning weed as a grift

>>37775961
ganja is objectively cool even if you got anxiety off a bad strain. shits perfectly natural and nothing at all like self harm and surgery

>>37775928
their argument however is that they have a lot of similar mood and body dysmorphic disorders to the rest of the troons. meaning morally they are obligated somewhat to at least warning you before you make your choice.

seeing as they can potentially help you before you make your 'informed consent' mistake i dont think most detrooners are flawed

>>37775697
>it's necessary medical treatment
...but it isnt. if you hate your own body this much you're willing to threaten suicide to get the drugs you dont physiologically need, thats your own body image problem anon. i promise you'll just do fine without the estrogen and roids.

>you can't take responsibility for your own actions and their consequences
theyre not saying they didnt make the choice at the end, if they bitch at all its because they protest they werent aware of the (irreversible) consequences and failure to transition as you get older. arguably anyone would get mad at a stoner phase for example if you had to stay stuck as a stereotype of a retarded stoner, or rocker, or whatever your whole life. they made a dumb decision when they were wrong that was based off the decisions of body dysmorphic schizos and groomers and wasnt feasible possible in the end.

hell the NHS is phasing youth transition entirely and just referring them to community mental health. its probably a good thing seeing as they made the claim most detroon PRE-PUBERTY. if they ever release that data itll probably kill off the youth transition movement for good, at least in europe

>>37775973
>meaning morally they are obligated somewhat to at least warning you before you make your choice.
this is a doctor's job. i don't know about other doctors, but mine explicitly told me the risks of hrt and made absolutely sure i knew all of the effects before even giving me hormones. it took a while before i actually got on them as a result.
if they take DIY then... should've used google first i guess?
also this still doesn't address the fact they're actively trying to get MY treatment, someone who's actually trans, taken away from me because of THEIR bad choice

>>37775988
>if you hate your own body this much you're willing to threaten suicide to get the drugs you dont physiologically need, thats your own body image problem anon.
i have a mental illness. maybe YOU don't, maybe detrooners don't, and that's the problem. for me, the treatment is transition
>groomers
oh wait nevermind i can immediately discard anything you said in this post
quit sealioning and just go back to where you came from already

>>37775669
I don't hate detransitioners and in my experience neither do most other trans people. If transitioning didn't work out for them and it's legitimately their choice to detrans then that's fine by me, all good.

What we hate is how certain political groups weaponize detransitioners to try and make it illegal for trans people to exist.
It's not the detrans people that are the issue, it's the conservative assholes shouting "Look, here's one person who detransitioned, guess that means we have no choice but to ban all transitional care for literally everyone!"

>>37775669
I hate them because I’m a repressor, we’re natural enemies.

>>37776042
Why shouldn't u be allies since u both insist on agab

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>>37775988
>if you hate your own body this much you're willing to threaten suicide to get the drugs you dont physiologically need, thats your own body image problem anon.
GD has been shown to have a genetic basis, the argument that it's always solely a "body image problem" is invalid from a medical standpoint. Your personal opinions aren't facts, retard.

>>37775697
>because for 99% of trannies it's not "self harm and destruction," it's necessary medical treatment
it fucking isn't
you're doing it because you can and because you enjoy it
just fucking own it
this is why everyone hates trannies

>>37776360
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia at wikipedia dot org
>Gender dysphoria (GD) is the distress a person experiences due to a mismatch between their gender identity—their personal sense of their own gender—and their sex assigned at birth.
we were born with a disorder that makes us hate the sex of our own bodies. unless you can prove conversion therapy works, then i'll keep using the medicine, sorry chuddy

>>37776395
>muh trannypedia appeal
this quote is obviously nonsense
trannies want to transition because they can and for no other reason

>>37776395
even if this were true (i dont think it is, i think you're the faggot from another day telling me that higher estrogen levels shown through genetic research somehow means trooning is valid) that still doesnt substantiate gender transition as treatment

if such disorder exists and crossdressing gives you euphoria and your natural gender gives you dysphoria its still ethically and logically better to just get over it. idgaf about conversion therapy but entertaining mental illness is as useful as entertaining anorexia and bigorexia, theres no point, just get used to your natural sex and stop hurting urself instead of creating more problems

>>37776443
>trannies want to transition because they can and for no other reason
okay. let's, for one second, assume that mine and millions of other transgender people's feelings are fake (they aren't), that the dsm-5 is fake (it isn't), and that your opinion is fact (it isn't). now, explain the actual problem with this if it is true

>>37776484
>millions of other transgender people's feelings are fake (they aren't), that the dsm-5 is fake (it isn't), and that your opinion is fact (it isn't)

psychiatry isn't science and your feelings are whatever will get you the tranny hormones

>explain the actual problem with this if it is true
there isn't one, it's fine if you want to do tranny body modifications just stop fucking lying about dropping dead if you go off them

>>37776480
>i think you're the faggot from another day telling me that higher estrogen levels shown through genetic research somehow means trooning is valid
i have no relation to said faggot, but the faggot is right. genetics do have an influence on the brain, an influence that could induce gender dysphoria.
>its still ethically and logically better to just get over it.
it's ethical to have millions of people suffer from their mental disorder instead of treating it?
>hurting urself
where does this strange idea that taking cross-sex hormones is "harm" come from? genuinely curious.

>>37776484
im not that anon but is there any dialogue besides 'ethical' that explains why allowing gender transition is better than allowing anorexics, cutters, other deluded self destructive people etc from harming themselves

its just "treatment" that 100% isnt needed and cant be fixed even with the best cosmetic surgery. the best attempt at treating gender dysphoria is just cognitive therapy, same as with most other chronic illnesses, and hoping it goes away after occupational therapy and adjusting to your post puberty body

i dont blame gender dysphorics i just think poons in particular are fucking stupid and hate their own body for no reason instead of just trying to understand and process their own emotions through evolutionary biology, psychology etc
>>37776510
look up behaviouralism and nature vs nurture and genuinely just read. can we even prove that allowing most to transition in childhood will ensure them a long life as an old tranny? probably not hence there wouldnt be so many detrooners and so few old trannies. the west has adapted to obviously failed attempts at treating gender dysphoria, which is why the uk is starting to ban youth gd "treatments"

im not that anon but people do self harm and hate themselves for stupid reasons. girls who read yaoi and think they wanna be a cute shota? feminine or hurt people who cut themselves? do you think they wouldnt resort to dumb shit like crossdressing if they WERE their 'brains sex'? being predisposed to higher hormone levels associated with the opposite sex may have a bearing on bisexuality, which is valid...it doesnt substantiate actually changing sex lmao
>>37776510
much more millions globally suffer from mental problems such as adhd and depression, not to mention autism, which can be chronic. treating lifelong issues doesnt mean essentially lobomotising or scarring people because theyre not satisfied with their body minds temporarily is good. cbt and even increasing their birth sex hormones is a better idea

>>37776505
>psychiatry isn't science
psychiatry is able to diagnose people with an illness and then prescribe them medicine in order to relieve their illness. it's close enough
>your feelings are whatever will get you the tranny hormones
my feelings existed before i knew that "tranny hormones" were a thing. for as long as i can remember. how do you explain this?
>it's fine if you want to do tranny body modifications just stop fucking lying about dropping dead if you go off them
okay. back in reality, gender dysphoria can cause depression, which can lead to suicidal ideation. are you going to go up to a severely clinically depressed person, take their antidepressants, and when they try to stop you say, "just stop fucking lying about dropping dead if you go off them"?

>>37776537
>psychiatry is able to diagnose people with an illness and then prescribe them medicine in order to relieve their illness. it's close enough
so are priests with demonic possessions and exorcisms

>my feelings existed before i knew that "tranny hormones" were a thing. for as long as i can remember. how do you explain this?
AGP

> are you going to go up to a severely clinically depressed person, take their antidepressants, and when they try to stop you say, "just stop fucking lying about dropping dead if you go off them"?
have you ever been diagnosed with depression? they don't even care about why you're depressed.

>>37776510
>where does this strange idea that taking cross-sex hormones is "harm" come from

arguably taking street steroids (elevated, often injected amounts of introduced blood levels of testosterone) as a male is harm. bigorexia is on the rise and this is seen through epidemics such as the one in south korea and arguably a global incel pandemic. the effects are clear, arguably no one should IDEALLY live with smaller balls, rage and higher levels of cancer because they made a stupid, uneducated, unsubstantiated mistake.

im not even gonna touch on cross sex SURGERY, because we damn well know that irreversible cutting up of the body such as circumcision is fucking stupid and avoidable. doing this shit on people under 25 who are otherwise mentally sound OR in mental extremes just screams unethical
>>37776537
this is funny because a) I dont dislike antidepressants but just because doctors urge patients to take them and show them studies showing a correlation it doesnt mean theyre guaranteed to work b) transgenderism isnt even rooted in reality which is why theres no physical guarantee you thinking your brain has a different sex is even correct, which is principally transition fails so many times
>>37776557
yeah im not against taking antidepressants just the idea that theyre anything more than a temporary panacea and not a cure all. other lifestyle changes arguably help more. cognitive therapy and acceptance could do the same for troons

>why do you hate detransitioners so much?
>>37775681
>>37775988
>>37776360
>>37776443
>>37776480
>>37776505
>>37776535
>YOUR CONDITION IS FAKE BECAUSE I DONT HAVE IT RETARD! MY PERSONAL FEELINGS OVER FACTS! YOURE ALLLL LYING!

>>37776535
>is there any dialogue besides 'ethical' that explains why allowing gender transition is better than allowing anorexics, cutters, other deluded self destructive people etc from harming themselves
because gender transition is not harm.
>cognitive therapy
yeah, because this and nothing else works for every other mental illness right? get real.
>i dont blame gender dysphorics i just think poons in particular are fucking stupid and hate their own body for no reason instead of just trying to understand and process their own emotions through evolutionary biology, psychology etc
at least you understand that you are biased and prejudiced.
>probably not hence there wouldnt be so many detrooners and so few old trannies.
detransitioners are a minority of a minority. old transgender people do exist, you are just willfully ignoring their existence to prove a point. haven't you heard of john, 50?
>the west has adapted to obviously failed attempts at treating gender dysphoria, which is why the uk is starting to ban youth gd "treatments"
"obviously failed" when the vast majority of transgender people are extremely thankful for their treatment, and most of the complaints from them are that they wished they started earlier. huh
>cbt and even increasing their birth sex hormones is a better idea
you are at best incredibly naive and at worst actively malicious if you think that. you're essentially saying "these people have gender dysphoria, so we should purposefully make it more intense to cure them of it."
>>37776557
>so are priests with demonic possessions and exorcisms
the difference being of course, that demons aren't real.
>AGP
oh that's nice, we're getting to the blanchardism now. he never said that this made transition an invalid option, just so you know.
>>37776557
>have you ever been diagnosed with depression?
yes, actually.

>>37776571
also
>legal adults cant consent to medical treatments
like holy shit you guys are you kidding me?

>>37776589
lots of conditions are fake and made up and that should be the null
most diseases and medicine throughout history have been made up nonsense
the burden of proof is on those who claim that their disease isn't fake

>>37776589
i mean screaming GIVE ME ESTROGEN/ROIDS OR ILL SLIT MYSELF doesnt exactly yell a constructive reasoning for why anything gender dysphoria/notion of wanting to transition SHOULDNT be considered a mental disease such as schizophrenia and treated approximately the same
detransitioners themselves prove the existence of trannydom is a meme that shouldnt be accommodated for with anything but strict cognitive therapy

>>37776601
wow, i dont know how you have the paitence for this bs but i think youre awesome anon

>>37776601
>the difference being of course, that demons aren't real.

can you prove demons aren't real but gender identities are real?

>>37776607
I don't see why any of this should be considered any kind of disease
you want to look like a girl, okay, here are the hormones and surgeries you need for that
there's no reason to think there's anything wrong with you and there's zero need for any diagnosis at any point here
it's just another desire for cosmetic treatment

>>37776601
>because this and nothing else works for every other mental illness right
cognitive therapy has been whats proven best through modern research/training, yes. not doubting that there are positive correlations with antidepressants and antipsychotics, but what would suit (esp. youth) transitioners the best is just not allowing themselves the ability to irreversibly harm themselves anymore, and preferably giving them a mental outlet.
>at least you understand that you are biased and prejudiced.
this bias is based on material research and ideas and not enabling trannies to hurt themselves because i care for them. but feel free to think we are bullies because we oppose scarring and irreversible harm after seeing research and detransitioner testimonies proving u wrong
>haven't you heard of john, 50?
thank u for making my argument even easier, you have to rely on cherrypicking data and admitting that old trans people ARE a rarity, because in reality they are few in existence because most end up killing themselves anyway or detransitoning. if it takes you 50 fucking odd years to realise you are trans THEN IT IS OBVIOUSLY BULLSHIT
>most of the complaints from them are that they wished they started earlier. huh
doesnt prove that it isnt a fad, i really wish the NHS would hurry the fuck up with their 'research' showing that most detransition before puberty
>these people have gender dysphoria, so we should purposefully make it more intense to cure them of it
i mildly suggest increasing test levels in homosexual males only if they voluntarily consent that it will help treat their same sex attraction. it could theoretically work better than transitioning because it sounds like life long, 95% chance of failing hell
>demons aren't real
they are, theyre called jews and they invented this bullshit in the weimar republic

>>37776571
>arguably taking street steroids (elevated, often injected amounts of introduced blood levels of testosterone) as a male is harm.
this is VERY different from trans people undergoing hrt to maintain the hormone levels of their cis counterparts and you know it.
>doing this shit on people under 25 who are otherwise mentally sound OR in mental extremes just screams unethical
i would say 18 or perhaps 21, but yes, we certainly shouldn't be doing cross-sex surgeries on minors (we don't, and haven't ever). if they are "otherwise mentally sound," but still have gender dysphoria, doesn't that make them an even more valid candidate for surgery however?
>I dont dislike antidepressants but just because doctors urge patients to take them and show them studies showing a correlation it doesnt mean theyre guaranteed to work
no one said that hormone replacement therapy was guaranteed to work either, but it works for the vast majority of people
>transgenderism isnt even rooted in reality
neither is depression by your logic. it's all just in the brain, right? just get over it!
>cognitive therapy and acceptance could do the same for troons
sure, you could do this, and live a reasonably okay life as a repper. but why should i repress if i don't have to?

>>37776603
i didnt state that

i dont give a fuck what you want to do if youre an adult if you wanna chop your dick off thats fine, youre just ill and i shouldnt fund or enable your sickness. the NHS is stopping all youth 'transitioning' care anyway which is good because it will be followed in other countries and will show even more research showing ur wrong.

circumcision is wrong, cutting off your fucking tits is wrong, and making a lifelong decision to give you the wrong genitals (look up people wanting to reverse phalloplasty its fucking gruesome) under 25 is inarguably fucking unethical
>>37776623
i wouldnt disagree if there were a chance that having the brain of the opposite sex existed and transition actually worked

>>37776643
>i wouldnt disagree if there were a chance that having the brain of the opposite sex existed
it does and it's called being gay

>and transition actually worked
you can look like the opposite sex well enough
transition works fine, trannies wouldn't pursue it if it didn't

>>37776607
estrogen has made me stop hating myself, it has slowly been making my mind stop rejecting the appearence of my body as my secondary sex characteristics develop, can you tell me why any other treatment should be considered when this worked on addressing the distress i was feeling? genuinely? or is it that because my treatment makes you personally uncomfortable or because you personally dont understand it i should be put through conversion therapy?
>>37776623
oh my god guess what i dont want to be a girl why would anyone choose to be a girl, being a girl sucks, being a trans girl sucks even more. holy shit if i didnt feel the things i did i wouldve stayed cis forever. just because detransitioners thought they knew what gender dysphoria felt like doesnt mean that gender dysphoria isnt real and crippling to the people that actually have it.

>>37776650
victim mentality, sad
stop pretending you aren't responsible for your own desires
gender dysphoria isn't real, it's the script western trannies and collaborating doctors have come up with to get them cosmetic hormones through the existing medical system

>>37776636
>this is VERY different from trans people undergoing hrt
how? genuinely curious. hormone blockers at 10 and taking shady testosterone as a 14 year old girl, especially when you dont work out and dont know the side effects, is...good?
>(we don't, and haven't ever)
they absolutely take them to thailand. the issue is >95% with the GD disorder have mental comorbidities and its difficult to justify transitioning in the long term
>no one said that hormone replacement therapy was guaranteed to work either, but it works for the vast majority of people
then ill wait for the research showing this, but it seems like such a large chunk of people detransition that it doesnt even seem viable entirely

depression is usually a response reacting to life (or more arguably roadblocks in it) that stop you from achieving things you want or seeking pleasure. it cognitively shuts you down and stops you from properly processing emotions. its common alongside gender dysphoria, doesnt mean its less valid

i dont really care what you do with your genitals desu i just think most of you are very ill and arent making a proper informed medical decision. youll probably regret it later which is why im warning you and advising alternate forms of therapy instead of irreversible often fucked up changes that dont seem to physically work

this kind of reminds me of how a bunch of afabs during covid genuinely thought they were autistic and became caricatures of people with autism. imagine if they all waged war against the autism world saying it wasnt real because they werent autistic? i wonder what brand of retardism these people have...

>>37776633
>but what would suit (esp. youth) transitioners the best is just not allowing themselves the ability to irreversibly harm themselves anymore, and preferably giving them a mental outlet.
most physical changes from hormones are reversible. i bet you wouldn't call going through puberty "irreversible harm," but for transgender people that's what it is. detransitioners only experience a fraction of that suffering.
>but feel free to think we are bullies because we oppose scarring and irreversible harm after seeing research and detransitioner testimonies proving u wrong
you don't care for me, you're trying to get my care taken away. that "research" and those "testimonies" are drops of water in a sea of research and testimonies showing that transition works for the majority of those who undergo it. sorry that it didn't work out for some people, but it did for us.
>you have to rely on cherrypicking data and admitting that old trans people ARE a rarity
john, 50 has become a legend because there are many like him, not because he is an outlier.
>if it takes you 50 fucking odd years to realise you are trans THEN IT IS OBVIOUSLY BULLSHIT
many realize, but never get the opportunity to express it or get help for their illness. you can't read people's minds, anon. unless...?
>i really wish the NHS would hurry the fuck up with their 'research' showing that most detransition before puberty
it will be cherrypicked and paid for by grifters just like your precious cass review, and you will eat it up
>i mildly suggest increasing test levels in homosexual males only if they voluntarily consent that it will help treat their same sex attraction.
yo we got anon advocating for conversion therapy before gta6
>they are, theyre called jews and they invented this bullshit in the weimar republic
lmao i love you, can we be dating actually? oh, but i'm staying on hormones even if we do

>>37776672
you have a new biggest fan anon stg

>>37776670
>this kind of reminds me of how a bunch of afabs during covid genuinely thought they were autistic and became caricatures of people with autism. imagine if they all waged war against the autism world saying it wasnt real because they werent autistic?
it's because autistic people aren't a wedge issue, so there's no monetary incentive for the grift.
>>37776667
>hormone blockers at 10 and taking shady testosterone as a 14 year old girl, especially when you dont work out and dont know the side effects, is...good?
love the word "shady" here, you have to consciously try to paint this in as bad a light as possible. also "informed consent" means that the patient is keyword: INFORMED of the side effects of the treatment should they wish to undergo it. they will know the side effects.
>the issue is >95% with the GD disorder have mental comorbidities
caused either by the GD or the intense bullying and ostracization that they experience as a result of being a gender dysphoric child, yes.
>such a large chunk of people detransition
it's about 3% of all trans people. most of which detransition because of social pressure, not out of a genuine desire to be their birth sex.
>i just think most of you are very ill and arent making a proper informed medical decision. youll probably regret it later which is why im warning you and advising alternate forms of therapy instead of irreversible often fucked up changes that dont seem to physically work
well i am ill, and i am informed, but if i ever do detransition i'll be sure to come back to you and tell you that you were right. maybe i'll even get paid some sweet sweet griftbucks if i renounce "transgenderism" entirely

>>37776650
i dont mind ur existence its just that what works for you doesnt justify allowing mass amounts of minors to elect the same thing when theyre purposely uninformed of the side effects tbqh hon
>>37776670
this is so fucking funny because a lot of pooners are just females that dont understand women can have it too. shit even dogs have it and covid convinced them all they should troon because they went insane during isolation
>>37776672
puberty is a process of many physiological changes happening at adolescence that the body is adapted to, its arguably the biggest and most important change of your body since infancy during a human lifespan and shouldnt be tampered with or equivocated to 'gender transition'
just because youre uncomfortable with the idea of masculinity/femininity and being confident in your own skin doesnt mean that the idea your brain belongs to the opposite sex is right
>you don't care for me, you're trying to get my care taken away. that "research" and those "testimonies" are drops of water in a sea of research and testimonies showing that transition works for the majority of those who undergo it. sorry that it didn't work out for some people, but it did for us.
i do somewhat care about your mental state of being even if your hormones get taken away if it makes you safer in the long term. if the trans movement is so right can they stop blocking the fucking research showing occasions where they are wrong
>many realize, but never get the opportunity to express it or get help for their illness. you can't read people's minds, anon. unless...?
if greg, the IT manager from the office takes 56 odd years to realise hes actually a 'quirky trans lesbian', then he is probably fucking wrong and weird
christian associated conversion therapy and methods otherwise are potentially what caused generational trauma spurring transgenderism (along with jew brainwashing)
i dont advocate for it but there are russian studies showing it can curb SS attraction

>>37776710
>it's about 3% of all trans people.
there are no reliable statistics showing this
obviously counting how many come back to the clinic is dumb because most just stop and never come back

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>>37776680
you sure...? i don't think enjoying arguing with people online is an admirable trait, but thanks anyway

>>37776710
>you have to consciously try to paint this in as bad a light as possible
i would even prefer the teenage pooners to take it legally instead of taking possibly laced shit off the street
>informed consent
lets be honest it isnt informed, they just sign whatever waiver comes their way and let the reddit trannies do the thinking for them
otherwise the detrooners probably wouldnt be bitching otherwise (if they actually knew testosterone can make you bloated, sick and bald)
>caused either by the GD or the intense bullying and ostracization that they experience as a result of being a gender dysphoric child, yes.
we live in arguably the most trans accepting society in the west btw. not saying that societal pressure doesnt make a part, its just 'changing sex' doesnt oft make as much as a change as people hope it does, otherwise the detransers would prove you right
they changed the suicide statistic from 41 to 51% btw, it doesnt mean its other peoples fault and not a dire mental illness that needs non transitioning specific help

>>37776623
nta, but any kind of cosmetic treatment shouldn't be a thing either. No breast enlargements, no filler shit, no veneers and so on. This all must go, people are beautiful how they are.

>>37776715
>just because youre uncomfortable with the idea of masculinity/femininity and being confident in your own skin doesnt mean that the idea your brain belongs to the opposite sex is right
no one educated is saying that trans brains are like their opposite sexed counterparts. but they are markedly different from cis people's.
>if the trans movement is so right can they stop blocking the fucking research showing occasions where they are wrong
i didn't do that, sorry about that though. i'd be interested to see the research when it actually gets done
>if greg, the IT manager from the office takes 56 odd years to realise hes actually a 'quirky trans lesbian', then he is probably fucking wrong and weird
bro you just straight up didn't read the thing i quoted. i specifically said that these people DON'T realize in old age. they realize very young, they just repress
>>37776716
okay, here's a survey saying 8%. check page 108 https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf
and guess what, only 5% of these people detransitioned out of a genuine desire to do so, which means *unzips calculator* it's only about HALF A PERCENT of all people who transition. the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you anon

>>37776736
>i would even prefer the teenage pooners to take it legally instead of taking possibly laced shit off the street
you and me both...?
>lets be honest it isnt informed, they just sign whatever waiver comes their way and let the reddit trannies do the thinking for them
and this is the fault of hrt and doctors how? if they choose to be willfully ignorant, that is, once again, their choice. i didn't sign the form for them
>we live in arguably the most trans accepting society in the west btw.
hahahahahahahaha, tell that to 14 year old me, she'd love to hear it
>they changed the suicide statistic from 41 to 51% btw, it doesnt mean its other peoples fault
it is though considering they hate us, harass us, and are actively working to either take what few rights we have away or kill us.

>>37776753
alright fair enough. i dont think the john 50s are valid because if they spend that long to realise theyre trans then its probably bs. but kudos for actually keeping up somewhat of an argument.

there are loads of varied studies on these topics, the survey you listed is from 2015, i dont doubt you but all we can do is wait for more honest research to come out

>>37776670
Some kind of Munchausen Syndrome and inability to comprehend that other people aren't them. The second thing is surprisingly common in general, a lot of people don't believe in mental issues because they don't have them themselves, but it's a big problem if it is combined with a temporary belief that you had the issue and got cured of it spontaneously.

>>37776753
>okay, here's a survey saying 8%
not a legitimate way of finding out either
unless you're tracking people who went to clinics over the long term and following up nobody has a clue what the detrans rate is

>>37776767
>this is the fault of hrt and doctors how?
not their fault i just dont think transition should be encouraged by random transbians on reddit. people especially children should know the full risks i think we all agree, i just dont think transition even rarely helps.

and nowadays we're getting more accustomed to the trans pandemic, politicisation aside, because theres a whole medical industry built around accommodating this bullshit (just like there was with lobotomy and circumcision)

im sorry people mistreat the transgenders even though they often repeat lies and enable bullshit

>>37776768
>all we can do is wait for more honest research to come out
i will agree with that as well. trans visibility at the scale we have now is still relatively recent, so presumably many more studies will be done in the coming years. i'll be looking forward to seeing which one of us is "right" (not that it matters lol)

>>37776343
People who talk about how things "have been shown" while appealing to scientific authority without citing sources have been shown to be full of shit.
Source: The Medical Community

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>>37775669
Women who are intact and unmutilated without extreme hair or balding but the ftm tranny voice from T are extremely extremely hot

>>37776656
through all my early puberty my body development made me uncomfortable. i tried to force my parents to buy me a swim shirt to cover my chest (they laughed at me), i almost never wore shorts once my leg hair started coming in, and i could never look at myself in the mirror without thinking about how my proportions were all wrong. this started at age 11 and i was uncomfortable showing my chest since i was first taken to a pool.
i do consider myself a victim tho. after being bullied for my insecurities around masculinity i cut my long hair off and started researching how to be a man, by 13 i had fallen down the alt right alpha male ben shapiro anti trans pipeline. there was no welcome for who i really was so i went completely in the other direction. i couldnt understand why i was so depressed, why i still couldnt look at myself in the mirror without feeling sick. i almost did kill myself. until i met a gay girl who helped me deconstruct my life, helped me understand gender and my sense of self. i was able to piece together things in my life that always told me i was different, finally shaving my legs for the first time gave me a relief like ive never felt. still it took three years for me to understand i was transgender, and another year and a half to start hormones. my parents who were both catholic progressive conservatives werent even surprised. they went through all the things in my youth that lined up with what i was telling them. i wish i couldve understood sooner, i wish i wouldve been able to express myself during all the chances that i had, all the chances that were shut down. I wish I wouldve known trans people were a thing before learning about them from the alt right after i had rejected myself. maybe i wouldve seen myself and understood what was wrong sooner. now i feel mutilated and deformed by my natal puberty, and id do anything to change what my body went through. I had gender dysphoria my whole life. does my experience count?

>>37776772
funny thing is i didnt think you were talking about the detransitioners at first.
>>37776783
already know im right for at least 95% of everyone who mildly suspects they have gender dysphoria but theres no magic wand to ensure only the people who 'validly and legitimately' have it will receive 'transition'

>>37776395
It's so irritating how you retards use "medicine" like it's a magic word.

>>37776788
youre just describing tomboys, silver you didnt have to come back from the future to say that

>>37776779
>counting how many come back to the clinic is dumb
>okay, here's data collected from a survey instead
>UHH BUT SELF REPORTING IS ALSO DUMB
you will never be satisfied
>>37776781
>theres a whole medical industry built around accommodating this bullshit
a lot of the people taking hrt are still postmenopausal cis women...
>im sorry people mistreat the transgenders even though they often repeat lies and enable bullshit
at least you still have compassion.
i will concede somewhat and agree that the process of diagnosing GD should be more rigorous than it is now, so we can hopefully prevent detransition from occuring. detransitioners and i both know the pain of going through bodily changes you don't desire, let's eliminate the pain for both of us, shall we?

>>37776767
>I have a mental disorder
> Conversion therapy can't solve this, I NEED drugs to do it
>However, I'll fucking kill myself due to alterable external factors
>By society changing those factors, I will no longer have a negative self-image and won't want to kill myself anymore
>Therapy for my GD? THAT DOESN'T WORK I HAVE A MENTAL DISORDER

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>>37776795
>It's so irritating how you retards use "medicine" like it's a magic word.
>uhhh durr me have no argument but me no like that word
okay grug, i'll say "hormones" or "hrt" from now on. is that better? does that make grug happy?
>>37776788
>that image
don't jack off anon.

>>37776824
>you will never be satisfied
it's called doing a proper longitudinal study you absolute dumbass and it's absolutely possible to do, just the clinics don't want to show the results because it would make them look bad

convenience sampling from a survey of self-ID trans isn't valid and neither is excluding people who dropped out and never came back to the clinics

>>37776830
>By society changing those factors, I will no longer have a negative self-image and won't want to kill myself anymore
which of these is more realistic: me changing myself, or the WHOLE OF SOCIETY changing? you can do this anon, you're a big boy.

>>37776839
>it would make them look bad
that didn't stop the cass review lol, just do it then? i'll concede once i actually get the study in my hands that says detransitioners are a massive portion of those who undergo hormone replacement therapy. i expect it on my desk by tomorrow

>>37776856
the cass review showed tranny "medicine" is based on sketchy or nonexistent evidence

the burden of proof is on those claiming tranny hormones are a good idea, as with any treatment, in the absence of evidence on detransition, you should be out there closing down the gender clinics.

>>37776845
Which is more realistic: Poisoning and sterilizing yourself with this season's lysenkoism to solve the problems that you'll still have a coin flip's chance of killing yourself over, or actually accepting yourself on a fundamental level so you don't feel compelled to do things that actively sabotage your own health in order to feel better?

>>37776836
Just stop maliciously referring to something that sterilizes you and destroys your bone density and doesn't even actually prevent you from wanting to did as medicine solving a problem.

>>37776792
Your experience is literally just that of spending years following one group of identity extremists to meeting somebody who inculcated you to another shallow political identity. You became trans at the same time being trans is increasingly popular, AND you are so prone to groupthink you openly regard yourself as having been indoctrinated, i.e. "fallen down a pipeline"???
Yeah, you don't make enough decisions for me to believe jack shit about your identity. Your experience is proof of your own hatred of autonomy.

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>>37776864
>the burden of proof is on those claiming tranny hormones are a good idea
you mean those hundreds upon hundreds of currently existing studies and testimonials aren't proof? certainly the cass review didn't think so, since they only accepted TWO studies out of a hundred of them. gee, sorry then. what do you want?
ohh no, i get it. the only "proof" you'll accept is the proof that reaffirms your worldview and disparages mine. unfortunately those are few and far between. i wonder why...?
>>37776869
>Which is more realistic: Poisoning and sterilizing yourself with this season's lysenkoism to solve the problems that you'll still have a coin flip's chance of killing yourself over, or actually accepting yourself on a fundamental level so you don't feel compelled to do things that actively sabotage your own health in order to feel better?
but i do accept myself anon. i accept that i am transgender, i accept that i have a disorder called gender dysphoria, it is others who do not accept me.
>>37776877
>Just stop maliciously referring to something that sterilizes you and destroys your bone density and doesn't even actually prevent you from wanting to did as medicine solving a problem.
so it can't be called medicine because it... has side effects? i mean, okay anon, but you have to accept that would rule out most other medicines from being called medicine too.
also
>sterilizes you
sperm bank
>destroys bone density
only puberty blockers do this, because having NO sex hormones in your body can cause issues. this would actually mean you think people should get on hrt immediately instead of taking half-measures with blockers
>doesn't even actually prevent you from wanting to did
this isn't because of hormones, this is because of how society treats us after the hormones

>>37776945
Gender dysphoria is definitionally not accepting yourself, retard. Internalizing self hatred with a medical label doesn't change what it is.

>>37776945
>you mean those hundreds upon hundreds of currently existing studies and testimonials aren't proof?
there are "testimonials" for all sorts of nonsense
there's no good quality RCTs which is what you actually need to accept a treatment

>>37776945
No, it can't be medicine because it doesn't treat you. If 51% of people are killing themselves, HRT isn't fixing them. Society be damned. Black people don't kill themselves at your rate, didn't during slavery, didn't during the worst periods of imperialism- Unless you want to go out on the limb that being trans is more traumatizing than living in a society where you get your hands chopped off for failing to meet rubber quotas, putting your suicide entirely on society won't fly.

>>37776824
not a detransitioner but hopefully at least those considering hrt at least are trutrans and not cringelords who will be better off trying to rep

>>37776836
dont bring silver into this shit...cringier than 06

>>37776864
>the cass review (showed tranny "medicine") is based on sketchy or nonexistent evidence

>>37776956
>Gender dysphoria is definitionally not accepting yourself
not accepting myself as my birth sex, sure. but unless you can prove something other than transition can resolve that, then i'm going to keep transitioning.
>>37776959
>there are "testimonials" for all sorts of nonsense
i mentioned both studies and testimonials because the "success" of treatment for gender dysphoria, being a mental illness, should be based on the mental well-being and satisfaction of those who undergo it, which can be measured through both self-reporting and conducting studies
>there's no good quality RCTs
that's because people generally believe that giving people with gender dysphoria placebo hrt is unethical, but i'd love to see one done if it will shut you up

>>37776945
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190708131152.htm

Your internalized your own refusal to accept yourself as an immutable characteristic on the basis of pseudoscientific criteria for understanding problems. Science has become a shield for your delusions, and what you call medicine is killing you while it exacerbates your trauma.

>>37776894
when did i say that? i spent until 13 just trying to be myself and the alt right grabbed me when i was vulnerable and couldnt understand what it meant to be a man. the only thing she did for me was deconstruct the things that had been instilled in me and opened the door to lgbtq understanding. obviously as i got older the worse it got? thats how puberty works? i was uncomfortable with my masculinization at 11 and it made me want to kill myself at 16 how does that not check out? my transness isnt ideological either. i dont participate in anything pride related. i transition quietly to address the distress around my male development, i get gendered as a woman in public because of how ive worked on my voice, how i style my clothes and do my hair and guess what? i dont feel anything, i just feel comfortable. this is a very personal and medical issue im addressing, one that was present all my life. i was taught about trans people in a non judgemental way and was able to realize the condition i had been suffering from for so long. and i think thats great. i hope other people like me can have that same experience :)

>>37777030
Transitioning doesn't resolve that. The root of your issue is self-hatred. You won't solve it with drugs or muscles or clothes or money. Plenty before you have tried.
Self-reflection, a willingness to adopt different modalities of thought, and a genuine interest in personal growth will take you farther. Gnosticism, buddhism, hermeticism, even ayauasca rituals if you're a retard who insists on mechanistic hacks for internal dilemma- Find ANY system of ideas which REQUIRES adopting different mindsets to proceed and you'll debug yourself of this horseshit where you behave as if it's irrevocably intrinsic to what you are.
Spiritualist shit might drive you crazy, but you're already batshit, so what have you got to lose you fucking meat automaton?

>>37777038
Yeah yeah, you're just here talking about it and seeking validation for your experience. Just how you were "grabbed" by the altright at 13.
You are the last person I'd ask about your own internal experiences, because you are a box that projects what's poured into it.

>>37777065
>>37777080
you are unironically braindead. do you think trannies dont want to be normal cis people. i would rather be a cishetguy than to have to suffer the trannies thoughts

Idk man i dont see a problem shooting up estrogen gives me tits im gonna keep doing that hehe

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>>37775669
I don't hate detransitioners. They don't scald literal babies like Huang Yue (黄悦) of Hangzhou did a few weeks ago in Australia. This is him.

>>37777105
who the fuck is him?

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>>37776999
nice digits. still gonna post silver THOUGH
>>37776982
>If 51% of people are killing themselves, HRT isn't fixing them.
that's the percentage of suicide ATTEMPTS, numbnuts, not deaths
>Society be damned.
https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/09/25/nx-s1-5127347/more-trans-teens-attempted-suicide-after-states-passed-anti-trans-laws-a-study-shows
unfortunately, it's not that easy when they're trying to legislate us out of existence
>didn't during slavery, didn't during the worst periods of imperialism
source please
>putting your suicide entirely on society won't fly.
okay sure, we can say that. the other suicide attempts are likely a result of the gender dysphoria, that results in severe depression, that results in suicidal ideation. happy?
>>37777032
>Your internalized your own refusal to accept yourself as an immutable characteristic on the basis of pseudoscientific criteria for understanding problems.
i don't care to debate how real psychiatry is. my emotions, the ones which i am experiencing inside my head, are real to me. i am taking hormones because there is an abundance of research saying that they may help relieve the specific emotions i am experiencing
>>37777065
>Spiritualist shit might drive you crazy, but you're already batshit, so what have you got to lose you fucking meat automaton?
>meat automaton
that's not nice... i have a soul you know :(
i've self-reflected long enough to know this is defiinitely what's wrong with me, i've doubted myself on this for the better part of a decade and keep arriving at the same conclusion: that i need to transition before it's too late. don't get me wrong, i'd sure LIKE to not have gender dysphoria. it's just that it's not possible for me

>>37777093
Most people prefer intense physical and social suffering to serious self-scrutiny. In this trannies are just like the vast majority of people. The problem is that your problems are not as easily hidden or socially accepted as other people's.
But the truth is, I think you do choose to be trans and accept all of the pain that comes with it. I don't care about normal, and I wouldn't recommend it. But I know that ingesting poison does you no favors.

>>37777133
Yeah I don't believe you for a second. You've at best debated a dichotomy between self-repression and enduring external hatred and decided ultimately you owed it yourself to endure the hatred rather than hold yourself down. That's all you've spent a decade reflecting on.

>>37777133
You need a source saying that half of an entire nation of people never attempted to murder themselves under foreign occupation?

>>37777133
You're taking them because they feed a delusion and satiate the desire to destroy the parts of you that you hate. You don't care to debate psychiatry's success in diagnosing patients because if it turns out the system and treatment of psychological problems is fundamentally flawed, you'd be forced to acknowledge the simple truth that even if no medical research suggested it aided at all, you would STILL want to feminize your body with drugs and cosmetic procedures.

>>37777150
>You've at best debated a dichotomy between self-repression and enduring external hatred and decided ultimately you owed it yourself to endure the hatred rather than hold yourself down.
does it need to be more complicated than this?
>>37777163
>You need a source saying that half of an entire nation of people never attempted to murder themselves under foreign occupation?
well it'd be nice considering you're the one doing the comparing. but i get it, it's ridiculous to expect you to have that.

>>37777193
>You're taking them because they feed a delusion and satiate the desire to destroy the parts of you that you hate.
nuh uh
>you'd be forced to acknowledge the simple truth that even if no medical research suggested it aided at all, you would STILL want to feminize your body with drugs and cosmetic procedures.
yeah and guess what, it's MY body and i get too choose what happens to it. i don't need a piece of paper saying "gender dysphoria exists" for me to experience it. the paper doesn't make it exist, my brain sure does though. stop telling me what to do DAD!!!

>>37777196
>does it need to be more complicated than this?
nta, but have you tried to think of underlying reasons why you wanted to do this? Trauma, autism, poor social skills, homosexuality, getting compared to the opposite sex too often pre transition (which could brainwash you into thinking that you must be it)? Did you think whether these things apply to you and could explain your dysphoria?

>>37777196
Yeah, devising a single narrative for your existence and spending an entire decade pingponging between two polar ideas that frame it is NOT serious self reflection. Nor does it represent a serious effort to overcome or resolve self-hatred. What good is the time you've spent when it was used so poorly?

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>>37777109
This guy
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13831499/Baby-Luka-coffee-hanlon-park-counter-surveillance.html
Source of his name:
https://archive.is/y4xC0

The National Socialist Network (NSN) held a protest outside the Chinese consulate in Melbourne because of this.

>>37777211
There you go. It's not about it simply being the best method to treat you according to doctors at all. Medical necessity is a pretense for a society that wouldn't accept or offer it otherwise.
It's just getting what you want.

>>37777196
The source is that I'm not an idiot, so I don't need to look up the black suicide rate in america to know that half of them aren't trying to kill themselves. But since you need me to wipe your ass:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide,_infanticide,_and_self-mutilation_by_slaves_in_the_United_States

People simply do not wish to kill themselves when they have self-regard. Not even when the entire world wants to crush them. Sometimes they do it to escape literal physical torture in the moment the torture is happening. But the torture trannies are trying to escape from is internal.

>>37777235
>trauma
had a good childhood
>autism
don't have this
>poor social skills
only after i came out as trans and got bullied into being 10x more reserved
>homosexuality
i'm bisexual but with a mostly heterosexual lean
>getting compared to the opposite sex too often pre transition
happened to me like thrice, i was very happy but never "believed i was a girl" or any cliche bullshit like that you see on TV
i just have a problem. don't know where it came from, but research, therapists, and doctors are telling me how to fix it. more than (You) have done
>>37777239
i did make a genuine effort to overcome self hatred by "just beeing myself" really hard and focusing on getting normal friends, academics, and theater. the dysphoria came back the minute i stopped distracting myself. i legitimately don't know how to solve this any other way
>>37777247
>It's not about it simply being the best method to treat you according to doctors at all.
all the doctors are doing is identifying and treating the feelings that are in my head, i'm saying they would still persist without any quack to diagnose me. so no, it's not just "getting what i want." does a rare disease not exist simply because doctors haven't identified it yet?

>>37775697
fucking real as shit, i am infinitely happier out publicly as a man and on testosterone than i was in the closet. i tried to kill myself and nearly succeeded while closeted, haven't since

>>37777293
Yeah, that's not self-reflection either. That's what you call "avoidance behaviors" and it's what a large number of people do with their inner problems so they just walk around repressing it until an aberration forms.

Examining the fundamental elements of who you are, why you think what you think, and how to think differently are different than 'being yourself'. Your identity and your mode of consciousness are fused together, but shouldn't be.

Try being something other than yourself. Try being a brazilian chinese-supremacist. Try being a rock outside your window. Try being your disappointed father. Don't be yourself. Escape your own bullshit.

>>37777283
lol i didn't think you'd really do it but thanks.
>But the torture trannies are trying to escape from is internal.
well unless (You) have something better, let us have the hormones that experts (yes i hate this word too) say stops the torture

I'm not reading all this shit, I just want to say I hate them because they're afabs

>>37777293
No, you said you'd want HRT even if there was no medical evidence to suggest it helped GD. So from this we surmise that your entire framework that this is a medical issue that HRT will resolve as medicine is extraneous to your desire for HRT in the first place. You don't want to transition because doctors say it will make you better. You want to respond to your GD by transitioning regardless of what medical research says on the matter. You want to transition even if it makes all of your problems worse. You want to transition even if it hurts you.

>>37775988
i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just don't know the science behind being transgender so i am going to link this video ( https://youtu.be/8QScpDGqwsQ?si=eHskR5Fst8t6Zcr_ ) about the neuroscience behind being trans for you to watch to show that you're wrong. there is a neurological basis behind being trans that goes beyond just being body image issues

>>37777080
you hate me because what made you hate yourself brought me peace from my life of suffering discomfort and distress. mwah<3

>>37776505
>psychiatry isn't science
ok i'll just stop taking my meds for my bipolar disorder and see how that goes thanks for enlightening me about how a branch of science with a long history isn't real because you said so

>>37777030
>the "success" of treatment for gender dysphoria, being a mental illness, should be based on the mental well-being and satisfaction of those who undergo it
no it shouldn't
all kinds of bullshit fake medicine makes people happier who take it
placebo, regression to the mean, the power of ritual, medical authority, suggestibility are very real phenomena
none of those are the same as a disease being real and a treatment for it being real
this is why it's so easy to fool yourself and why blinded RCTs are the gold standard of evidence

>>37776604
Even if it is a fake/non real disease, theres no real reason why people who want to transition shouldnt be able to transition, especially considering it makes the majority far happier

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>>37777332
>Examining the fundamental elements of who you are, why you think what you think, and how to think differently are different than 'being yourself'. Your identity and your mode of consciousness are fused together, but shouldn't be.
i'll admit it: i don't really know "who i am." that's why just being myself worked out so horribly, turns out i was just molding myself to others' expectations of me. one of those expectations is that i'd be a normal man and wouldn't troon out, and i didn't like that one. other than that, i guess i don't have any real identity...
>Don't be yourself.
in a way, is this not exactly what i'm doing with transition? lol
i get what you mean though. i don't know if i truly buy into what you're saying but i definitely am lacking in the self-knowledge department, that's something i'd hoped to resolve through transition

>>37777293
>i just have a problem. don't know where it came from, but research, therapists, and doctors are telling me how to fix it. more than (You) have done
Thanks for answering the questions. I didn't mean to sound hostile, sorry if it came off that way, I'm just struggling with figuring out why i have similar issue and was thinking that maybe your experience will help me. I'm not pretending that I have a solution, because let's be honest, if it was caused by autism it wouldn't matter because you can't give rid of autism either, lol.

>>37777387
can you prove that bipolar disorder is real in the first place?
was it diagnosed from a brain scan? can you show the brain scan?

>>37777334
Let you? I'm not stopping you by telling you the experts are retarded and the HRT won't solve your underlying problems. I am desperately warning you that this is the spirit-child of phrenology, eugenics, lysenkoism, and every prior bastard superstition that modern scientific research pretends it hasn't let slip as truth to the detriment of untold millions. I'm telling you not to destroy yourself simply because it's popular to be destroyed. I'm telling you that your problem is even harder to fix than you think it is but actually doing the work of understanding yourself beyond egoistic ideals is the difference between 51% and 49%, and no I don't care that it's attempted because attempting to DESTROY YOURSELF is suicide in that it is still the utter rejection of existence.

>>37777386
I don't hate you. I think you've let yourself grow into an object.

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>>37777399
was my brain scanned to get the diagnosis? no, but here's a brain scan about how the matter that makes up the brain is fundamentally different between people with and without bipolar disorder

>>37777359
blah blah blah i surmise that you're a big dummy
if a large number of doctors came out and said that transitioning is total bogus and doesn't help GD at all, then guess what? i would stop transitioning. the main thing i'm concerned with solving is the GD, doesn't matter how i do it. it's just that we've only identified one widely-accepted way to do it so far
>>37777391
>all kinds of bullshit fake medicine makes people happier who take it
but the thing is hormones change your body. there are tangible effects and it's pretty easy to tell whether you like them or not

>>37777406
Physiognomy is legit and AI has to the chagrin of retards proven it, and eugenic breeding has never been a bad thing except in the minds of dirty blooded Ashkenazi.

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>>37777397
>I didn't mean to sound hostile, sorry if it came off that way, I'm just struggling with figuring out why i have similar issue and was thinking that maybe your experience will help me.
well in that case i hope my answers were somewhat insightful anon :)

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>>37776982
That's without parental acceptance, when parents are supportive, the suicide attempt rate is equal to that of the general population

>>37777406
>Let you? I'm not stopping you
cool, thank you. that's nice of you because some people would like to do so.
>I am desperately warning you that this is the spirit-child of phrenology, eugenics, lysenkoism, and every prior bastard superstition that modern scientific research pretends it hasn't let slip as truth to the detriment of untold millions.
many people have asked me why i think i'm transgender in this thread. this time, i want to ask you: why do you think this? what is your basis for believing nearly all the infomation we have now is bogus?

>>37777420
hey! women arent objects... :(

>>37777433
>transitioning is placebo!
>detrans because of the physical effects

>>37777396
Yeah, except fucking up your emotions and body with poison and throwing yourself into a social struggle and getting hammered with external hatred that makes you want to die is a recipe for getting trapped in your own bullshit- The same bullshit that has come to define the entire relationship between your body and identity.
Here's something you can try. Try looking at everything around you as sacred. Try to REALLY BELIEVE that every single person you speak with, every flavor you experience, every sight you see, every object you touch, every word you read, is literally divine and worth your utmost interest.
Then, some other day, some other hour, some other time you feel centered- Look at everything like it's garbage. None of it matters, none of it is special, all of it can be taken for granted. Especially the same objects you saw as sacred.
Get a feel for actively changing your perspective on the world as a choice. Learn to take an interest, and to become disinterested as a matter of decision rather than impulse. A healthy person's emotions serve them, not the other way around.
When you control your perspective, you can start getting some on yourself.

>>37777474
stealing this image for the next time i have to argue with people online, thanks anon
>>37777440
woah, cool it with the antisemitic remarks
>>37777493
i think you're agreeing with me so thanks?

>>37777497
>Here's something you can try. Try looking at everything around you as sacred. Try to REALLY BELIEVE that every single person you speak with, every flavor you experience, every sight you see, every object you touch, every word you read, is literally divine and worth your utmost interest. Then, some other day, some other hour, some other time you feel centered- Look at everything like it's garbage. None of it matters, none of it is special, all of it can be taken for granted. Especially the same objects you saw as sacred. Get a feel for actively changing your perspective on the world as a choice. Learn to take an interest, and to become disinterested as a matter of decision rather than impulse. A healthy person's emotions serve them, not the other way around.
nta, but this is interesting. I think I tried part of it at some point, but not fully intentionally. I guess I should try again. Thanks for this!

>>37777497
>poison
no need to be so dramatic, it's just estrogen. women have this stuff inside them all the time and turn out fine
>throwing yourself into a social struggle and getting hammered with external hatred that makes you want to die is a recipe for getting trapped in your own bullshit
except i didn't ask to be in the social struggle or for the hatred, that just came about from me existing. it's sort of hard to willfully ignore the world around me like it doesn't affect me
>Here's something you can try.
i will genuinely try this though

>>37777453
Well... I guess my insight is now again stuck at "it is what it is" about dysphoria. I was hoping to figure out the "why" behind "what", but I guess it's above my expertise lol

>>37777478
It hasn't produced results and the more effort that goes into it, the worse the outcomes get. There is a persistent lack of consensus, yet the issue rises in social popularity with a favorite answer. This is the obvious callsign of pseudoscience.
Moreover, the logic behind the premises are faulty. The idea that a person suffering from intense self-hatred will solve their problems by changing physically is an ancient folly.
Moreover, this is subject is regarding a social phenomena. Mass hysterias are well documented, and entire nations have starved themselves to death following spurious social phenomena. Does a person suffering from the dancing plague truly intrinsically believe they must dance? Who cares. They're nuts and indulging them led to people dying. It stopped being about proving any individual case and started being about curbing the growth of a dangerous meme a long time ago.

>>37777563
>I was hoping to figure out the "why" behind "what"
trust me, there are many people trying to figure out this very same thing. some say it's genetic, some say it's caused by hormones in the womb, some say it's brain structure. among all those people, they will tell you "yeah we're pretty lost as well, but this could be it"

>>37777575
we all have our struggles and honestly it seems like it can’t be fun being you…
i was able to find my peace by addressing my gender dysphoria and transitioning, i really do hope someday you’re able to find your peace too <3

>>37777575
>It hasn't produced results
all those trannies who experienced better quality of life post-transition would disagree, but alright
>There is a persistent lack of consensus
i.e. there's a few studies and journals (likely paid to push a narrative by those who have something to gain out of the detrans grift, let's be real) that say it might not be as effective as we thought
>Moreover, the logic behind the premises are faulty. The idea that a person suffering from intense self-hatred will solve their problems by changing physically is an ancient folly.
fair. gender dysphoria is more than your everyday self hatred though. you can't just "love yourself!" when you're irreconcilably different to what you'd like to be
>Moreover, this is subject is regarding a social phenomena. Mass hysterias are well documented, and entire nations have starved themselves to death following spurious social phenomena.
a social phenomena lasting hundreds if not thousands of years. yeah, it'll stop any day now... any day...

>>37777546
It damages your body and sterilizes you. It's poison. Women are full of water, but water poisoning exists.

You said yourself that you debated stepping out of the closet or staying in. I'm not saying that you should've stayed in, but you DID choose this path, it wasn't thrust upon you. Even viewing it as a box you must enter or leave to begin with was a choice on your part.

Before we had mental illness, we had possession. Lycanthropy(the belief thst one is a wolf) used to be relatively common, and now it is relatively rare. The brain navigates the world according to the systems the brain itself devises. Homer describes the sea in the illiad as 'wine-dark', because when the Odyssey was written, the Greeks had no color for 'blue'.

Ask yourself- If you had never seen a woman in your entire life, what would you be? How could you be? If you could not define a man or woman as ideas, but you still felt dysphoria, how could it be gender dysphoria? How could it be intrinsic? The self-hatred is real. The context for that hatred is malleable.

>>37777659
People being trans has existed for thousands of years. The modern gender transition social phenomena is only decades old.

>>37777664
you’d probably know something was wrong with you but it wouldn’t effect you as much is my guess. but we live in a society, not a vacuum, so this hypothetical is kinda useless

>>37777652
So happy you need to aggressively signal how happy you are completely unprompted. That's not very convincing.

>>37777710
It's use is in demonstrating that fundamental suppositions about what makes up the identity and our feelings were built by human consciousness in the first place. Because that's true, we can change those things by understanding the world and ourselves differently.

>>37777659
Even studies that are pro-medical transition haven't achieved consensus regarding conclusions or reasons for effective treatment. The results between studies vary wildly, and there is no replicability.

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98 KB JPG

>>37775669
i only hate them if they try to say every tranny is wrong just because they were wrong about themselves

>>37777777
Seven 7s!

>>37777777
> 37777777
waow…

>>37777777
wow. alright guys thread's over. we can pack it up now

>>37777544
The ultimate goal is to be satisfied exactly where you are. This exercise is a tool to help on one hand to make the world interesting, and the other to mitigate attachment and bias. One will make you delusional, the other will make you depressed. Mastering both and choosing wisely will allow you to choose to smile at reality.

>>37777878
Yeah, I got the point. Thank you for sharing this.

>>37777905
No problem. Good luck.

>>37777777
septuplets of truth

>>37777793
hi stacker

>>37777777
holy fucking septa septa
kindred is based

>>37777777
holy shit thats alot of 7s

>>37777777
jesus fucking christ what are the chances of getting seven sevens

>>37778485
1/7777777 chance

>>37777426
Let's see your brain scan then.
> the matter that makes up the brain is fundamentally different between people with and without bipolar disorder
so what? so is learning to play the piano.

>>37777777
witnessed

>>37777777
TRUE

tttt GETs....

>>37777777
Witnessed!!

>>37777777
holy shit
and yeah you got it

>>37775681
> because 1% of people made a mistake it's "self-harm"
thanks for making the first reply exemplify exactly why we can't stand these people who become grifters and anti-trans

>>37777777
Nice GET

>>37777777
coolest GET we'll have in months