I was surfing on terf tumblr for. reasons.. and the main rhetoric that they try and push out there is that gender is just a bunch of stereotypes attributed to the biological sex, that's why so many of them (terfs) are "gender abolitionists."This is why so many people experience with Gender Dysphoria, as their entire gender identity that was assigned to them at birth, is solely a load of stereotypes and assumptions that they would grow up to not align with. I would like to know your guys thoughts on this
>>40966983YesAnd stereotypes are often stereotypes for a reasonNext question
gender dysphoria is a misnomer for sex dysphoria and I'm really a transsexual
>>40967023how can you be transsexual. Sex is impossible to change, there's nothing to be transformed
>>40967064no it's notestrogen changes my body to be like a female body, and srs will change my genitalsso I'm a transsexual unless you think the physical differences between men and women are just stereotypes too
>>40966983Socially constructed categories (of which sex is one) will always have accompanying symbols, which are effectively stereotypes. If you think this is a problem in of itself then you're out of luck, because human beings inherently think symbolically.IMO this is a big failure of feminism, the existence of women as a social category has been treated as synonymous with the existence of women's oppression. It would be like treating the existing of ethnic groups as the same thing as ethnic prejudice, rather one being applied to the other.
>>40967064Sex change operations change your primary sex organ. Hormones, voice training, and other surgeries change your secondary sex characteristics (body hair, facial hair, fat distribution, facial proportions, gait, voice, nipple size, body odor). It’s weird how you didn’t know any of that but still offered an opinion on the subject.
>>40967092What about your chromosomes?
>>40967161Who cares?
>>40967161lol what about my chromosomes?my chromosomes have absolutely zero impact on my life and nobody will ever see them
>>40966983This is a larp because terf tumbr was spammed to the brim with pro trans rhetoric
>gender is just a bunch of stereotypesAnd money is just some paper. All this kind of rhetoric does is reveal the sheer childishness and inability to understand the world that surrounds it of the person that spouts it.>bro da social constructs bro yes? and? That social constructs aren't "natural" doesn't mean it is either possible OR desirable to get rid of them, even of the ones that seem at face value unpleasant.And I am tired of this retarded feminist talking point, which is EVIDENTLY false. There has been NOT A SINGLE CULTURE ON EARTH which had no gender. If gender was as made up as they insist then for certain there should have been at least one, and yet all of them have genders. It's almost as if this is deeply fundamental to how human beings function qua human beings and will be regardless of how much worthless feminist academics insist otherwise from their ivory tower. You know what, I am fucking tired of the deleterious influence feminism had in academia and specifically the humanities. They get to hog grant money while doing a grand total of 0 real scientific research on an eternal circlejerk of citing each other. This is why I support defunding the humanities, if Jaynice Raymond and her coven of hags managed to be "successful academics" despite the obviously flawed agenda driven natuee of their """research""" then their field doesn't deserve public money.
this >>40967023i think there is such a thing as gender dysphoria but as a sex-dysphoria-only-haver it frustrates me a little that people think that the only reason trans people transition is because of arbitrary gender stereotypes (which afaik are not even really the reason gender-dysphoric tranners transition)
>>40967064* sigh * >>40960019>>40967161If you wanna spend the money and wait a couple weeks then sure you can clock my karyotype.While you're in there could you run SNPs for AIS? I've got a medical theory about myself.I didn't troon so people wouldn't make fun of me for wearing pink. I trooned because I needed my body to be female shaped and I needed to interact with the world as a maximally female adjacent human.
>>40966983Basically yes. That's why transitioning is so stupid.
>>40967136You can change you physical body with extreme surgeries but not your sex.
>>40967371Nobody caresWhat is a relevant objection?
>>40967064There's layers but our cultures (and the evolution of reproduction itself) generally care about gonadal sex. It's the "productive" definition.Males make little gametes and females make big ones. You use both to make more organisms.And these gametes are activated and developed as the chromosomal sex (hopefully) then defines the gonadal sex, and then we are assigned a sex within our culture, hopefully by someone with medical knowledge to help "sort" intersex cases into an assigned sex by proximity and what data we have based on how well that intersex condition matches with a functional sex.That's three layers.Trannies added "ostensible" sex or "gender" or "sex presentation". Through epigenetics, the case they make is that hormone replacement will change an ostensible, which they assert is the most important.I personally can't buy into that because sex exists for reproduction. You can call all the other window-dressing something else but your sex should be based on gamete production (at any point you made them). Assigned sex is useful because it helps fold in intersex cases, matches up nearly 1:1 with gonadal sex and basically defines what sexist socialization you'll receive.
transgenderism is just adhering to stereotypes
>>40967817this
Gender isn't gender roles
>>40966983the more I learn the more nothing is ever 'just' anythingchange the language and you get new concepts, new concepts lead to a new reality, a new reality leads to new causal extrapolations, worked for galileo and descartes tbqhI think one of the funniest parts of 'the second sex' is where beauvoir basically calls western feminists of the time stupid for thinking they can just rationalize themselves out of being women by ignoring material reality and lived experiencewe're almost a century further and both philosophy and neuroscience have advanced significantly, so it makes more sense to talk about how the sentient organism constantly renegotiates and co-constitutes its existence with its environment as an active collaborative processmeanwhile common political discourse is still coming to terms with lived experience and material ethics
>>40966983I'm a gender abolitionist tranny. I just also believe in sex abolitionism as well.There should be no categories like "male" or "female", just people and you can like who or whatever you want and dislike who or whatever you want. And you can do whatever you want with your life and your body and no one will interfere with it, but actively support it to the extent that people have a responsibility for your well-being (parents, state).My praxis for actually accomplishing it is reduction to absurdity. Add more and more sexes and genders, especially contradictory and overlapping ones, until it's semantically meaningless.
>>40967358Based answer. Maximally adjacent is preferable. I think to what level is a personal preference, but only that bit.
>>40969407you wouldn't take hrt if you actually believe in gender abolitionism, since hrt is an act of pro-conformity (i.e. looking male but acting female is wrong and must be aligned chemically)
>>40966983If you try to understand the gender debate in terms of gender, it doesn't really make sense.If you understand it in terms of: some women want to shoot T and ge their tits cut off and some men want to shoot E and get boobs implanted, that they want this for personal, sexual and mental health reasons and TERF/Conservatives want to ban that because they fear their own FOMO about not transitioning and are worried that the entire human race will mass sterilize itself, the whole thing makes more sense.All anti trans conservatives believe that all cis people are reppers, or at least can be incepted with the sexual fetish of being trans, because most of them are struggling with that themselves. Just look at Glinner.
>>40969976all trans are conservatives
>>40969905I took HRT because I wanted boobs. That's not even related to gender shit. I just wanted boobs.My behaviour and mannerisms are unrelated to my appearance. I play military simulation games, goon a shitton, and don't even voice train. I'm 100% about changing the aspects of my life and my body that I want to change, and keeping the aspects I actually liked.In fact, I'm only gendered "female" because all my peers when I started this process were like, "yep, these changes make you a transgender woman!" If I were starting over today I might have gone the HRT femboy route instead. But the life I've built up right now is already full of people who affirm me as a transgender woman, so whatevs.
>>40970038you want boobs because you see females as being treated better than malesand you want to enforce that system with you on the good side of it
>>40970048Nope, I grew up in an era that absolutely treated men better than women. I remember how the best and brightest girls in my classes were encouraged to take non-STEM classes instead.I saw how my own sister, no less genetically gifted than me, received less parental support for her choice of education and careers.I see how my success in my own career is tied to how I can embody non-feminine personality traits, like assertiveness and taking control of a meeting or team. I see how I can easily navigate situations and conversations with vendors, simply by not mentioning I'm a woman because this random doesn't need to know that. I've literally been on calls and listened to them mansplaining the women in a way they'd never dare try with me.I want to TRULY abolish sex and gender, because as long as they exist there will be one side or another vying for dominance. There is no "separate, but equal." The failure of feminism thus far has been because it does not truly want to abolish sex and gender, but fight for "a more fair and balanced segregation."
>>40970086women have always been treated better than men
>>40970095Keep repeating the lies that make you feel comfortable, I guess!I'm not the one telling an AGP tranny that they "want boobs because of female privilege." Fucking ridiculous! I wanted boobs and HRT because I wanted to goon 7 times in one hour >>40965227
>>40970119you do want female privilege, though
>>40970145If "female privilege" exists, then anyone should be able to self-ID as "female" to claim it.If "male privilege" exists, then anyone should be able to self-ID as "male" to claim it.It will be great for advancing the cause of gender and sex abolition, by having so many capricious people taking advantage of the systemic inequalities that the system buckles under the stress.You're just angry that people expect you to perform a gender role or make radical body modifications to accomplish it. I am also angry about that! Let's work together :3
>>40970219they only give it to men who are seen as intentionally making themselves less threatening
>>40966983TERFs are mad because women are taught that womanhood is something magical and special and those women have nothing else going on. They'd be nothing if they weren't a woman. They hate trannies because they feel like trannies are usurping them. You ever notice how women get mad when trannies act like women but no man has ever gotten upset because FtMs want to grill or ride dirt bikes?Nobody cared what TERFs thought until trannies gave them relevance. A lesson trannies sorely need to (but won't) learn from.
>>40970247womanhood is magical
>>40970267so is manhood, i may be a tranny but i don't want the man in me to ever die
>>40970292men are rape machines, that's a cursed existence I don't envy
>>40970298I like being feminine by default, but when I am around my old friends and my dad I don't care much how I look and I am always down to crack open a beer and shoot shit like I'm not some kind of giant faggot.
>>40970306>drinking beer is something women can't do
>>40970267>>40970292There is nothing magical about either of them. Manhood and womanhood are ideals to aspire to. Being born with a pussy doesn't make you some feminine ideal or magical. The people who argue for that do so because they are insecure in their womanhood or in their character.
>>40970333giving birth is a magical act men cannot do, it's the only way our civilization leaps into the future
>>40970340It's not magical. People pretend it's magical because it's horribly graphic and usually results in women shitting themselves. It's a cope.
>>40967064epigenetics are a thinggene expression patterns are a thingdumb post
>>40970048>you see females as being treated better than malesPeople are nicer to women but men think sexual assault is being nice.Don't troon for social benefits. It's not worth it.
>>40966983>Isn't Gender just a bunch of stereotypes attributed to the Biological Sex?yesdont try debating with these retards
Boo niggers stop responding to retarded baitTumblr terfs are underdicked screeching roasties their opinion is as valuable as the tubby fingets theyre writing it with
>>40970364If it's not magical then why can't a trans woman ever do it?
>>40966983Gender is a stupid concept. Woman behaving in a masculine way does not maker her any less of a woman (female)I agree with terfs here
>>40970583so you don't agree with non binaries?
>>40967092It does not work that way, you don't have a female skeleton, instestine size, reproductive organs, chromosomes. You cannot be a female. You are a feminized male.
>>40966983i dont know man angloids are retarded for even being so preoccupied with the entire concept of gender. what i do know is that gender dysphoria is real, and that it is SEX dysphoria about physical characteristics as well as it is about social things. so either way, trannies should transition even in a world where gender WAS abolished and terfs can go suck the end of a shotgun
>>40970490Why can't cis women CUM from their PENIS?>>40970583>Gender is a stupid concept.>Female sex behaving in man gender way does not make her less female sexYou literally just described why gender isn't a stupid concept.
>>40970605I mean cis women orgasm from their clit. >You literally just described why gender isn't a stupid concept.intersex women are socially scrutinized by both male and female normative expectations - but it doesn't mean people perceive them as men, they perceive them as birth sex dominant intersex people
>>40970597Not really
>>40970605Why would a woman want to cum from penis. Penis looks like a turd in a diaper
>>40970653women have clits which functionally are just smaller penises, they orgasm in much the same manner as a man does
>>40970623>>40970600I lived most of my life on the edge of barely qualifying as male. 8 months of hormones and my boymode was maliciously misgendered by some lady working at a Qdoba. Like she sighed and called me ma'am.Gendered female, still in boymode, checking into a hotel with an ID with a male name and a literal bearded dude on the photo.8 months was all it took after 20+ years of testosterone exposure. I didn't look good but I couldn't pass as male.Sex is complicated.>>40970604This. I didn't exactly transition into a fully gender conforming woman either.For fuck's sake I'm posting here aren't I?
>>40970700people have learned to call you what you want to be called
>>40970704Yep! That's exactly why complete strangers started doing it even when I was making no effort. They could just sense the energy.You are really bad at psyops.
>>40970779What are customs? Also I don't get this routine of telling strangers online that you are soooo happy and everyone genders you female. Since we can't see you, there's no way to know if you are serious or realistic, it's just you kinda tooting your own horn.
>>40970490>shitting yourself to own the trannies
>>40970700You are a male. You are not a female. Sex cannot be changed. Have a good gender today!
>>40970789>people always guess other people dressed like men headed to the office are actually women>tooting your own hornAnd not even on a tripcode! Crazy right?What do you want a picture? Then you'll just say passing is 3D. And you'd be right. But it's not like we're ever gonna meet.
>>40970656Clits are tiny, cute, more sensitive and they don't shoot out that smelly stuff. It exists only to bring joy to a female.
>>40970820male gender roles are so strict that what you call a male look probably isn't if they are calling you female you've got some other stuff going on, but again, we never see these magical fits where you are dressed like a normal male but of course everyone genders you female cuz estrogen is magic and that's your inner essence etc. >Then you'll just say passing is 3Dtrannies could ATTEMPT to make honest videos where they show themselves rotating in slow motion but they will always do anglefuckery or lighting tricks or other stuff, they aren't trying to be honest, they just want you to agree that they look female
>>40970819* sigh * >>40967358Do you ever get tired of this?
>>40970819me when i hear the same braindead response for the 100th time :o
>>40970839>>40970842in this thread:people who look three dimensionally postal worker, and will never, ever, ever prove otherwise (with honesty)
>>40970838I dressed like my mom dressed me, which was how my silent generation dad dressed. My style was "fuck it I give up I'm at walmart and these are clothes."I think I actually do have a photo somewhere. If you're nice to me maybe I'll post an unsee.Men's clothes never fit right though. Women's sizes are fuckery but for tops now I'm usually S or XS and for shorts/pants/skirts S or 4. I'm so short I buy petites when they sell them.
>>40970857faggot who has a fetish trying to bring other people into this fetish and failing miserably while seething
>>40970878I'm totally unclear if you are trying to prove you pass as female in normal mens clothes or in old timey 1920s clothes.
>>40970857wdtem
>>40970986I get all my old timey 1920s men's clothes from walmart. Don't you?You know like the standard business casual uniform? Black slacks and a button down shirt in one of like two approved solid colors or a checkered pattern?And like whatever the fuck picrel shoes were.I passed as female in that.
>>40971028so do you feel validated if internet people agree that you look female irl?
>>40971073I'm just here to tell you you're wrong. I get my validation in the real world, which is the only place it matters.I'm here to defend advanced biology against people who never finished the 4th grade
>>40971087So it's important to you to believe that you know better than other people?
>>40971093What's the point of you telling me my life is impossible? Like what's your goal? Am I supposed to cry and detroon about it?There's been like 20 threads about this today. Why do you do this?
>>40971108I mean its just silly to insist you look female in a place where nobody can see you.
>>40971117It's equally silly to post stuff like this over and over and over again >>40970600 >>40960044What response are you hoping for?
>>40971161trannies don't really make much of an effort to release honest videos to show they pass
>>40971171Ah, so you want a really boring video where I rotate like I'm trapped in a character builder with flat lighting so you can judge my body for yourself.Should I talk too? Voice is crucial in real life.What should I wear? Clothes distort your perception too. Would tight but not compressive athleisure work?Do you have a color preference? Even color changes how someone works. Like black is slimming for example.
>>40971194you have to rotate slowly and for full accuracy I suppose the camera would have to show multiple perspectives i.e. looking from above and below - and really and truly there's have to be a rotating cis woman next to you, but I don't get why trans people couldn't do this if they are so adamantly sure they pass>What should I wear? shorts and a t-shirt>Do you have a color preference?I don't think that matters as much as not hiding angles or lighting that would expose your male features
>>40971117I mean being an approximation of female is always nice, I assume you don't like being a fat idiot who looks like shit either. Being a tranny is just that feeling of wanting to look nice but for some reason that innate instinct drives you to do it as though you are the opposing gender.
>>40971205The best I can do is a size reference. I am definitely not going to my cis friends and saying "Hey will you come to my basement studio so we can both rotate in front of a camera at multiple angles? I'm gonna post it on 4chan to prove passoids are real."Honestly I think just not anglefagging should give you most of what you want. It's pretty obvious when people are doing it. Like I've seen all the weird shoulder poses and they look unnatural. Dead on standing up straight facing straight at the camera feels like an equally unflattering playing field.Basically passport photo setup except you want the whole body.
>>40971222im saying like ANY trannies could do this irl to show the world some trans women look female and they never bother, or the videos are super staged and anglefrauded, it really makes you thinkalso, better to do it outside
>>40967817Transgenderism is definitionally opposing stereotypes.
>>40971250Probably because the exercise is contrived in its own way.In real life women call the cops if you approach them and start panning up and down and examining every inch of them in comparison with the friends they're with.Could you imagine?>better to do it outsideI can actually produce more honest and consistent lighting indoors, but probably most people can't.
