Hello everyone! I am not a regular here and I am kinda worried everyone is going to hate on myself and tell me to kill myself, but I still am going to ask: What do you guys think about AGP - autogynephilia? I am not too deep into gender science and AGP but I read a little about it and I do think I may have AGP. meaning I get off the thought/fantasy and Female Pov Porn of having sex as a woman with a man. And even though it doesn't repulse me emotionally, to me it just appears as a fetish, born and induce by watching porn. Thus I see it as vile, degenerate and depraved. And I am disgusted with the part of myself that enjoys the fetish. II am not saying it's the same experience for everyone, for others it may just be self expression of their sexuality. And I am not denying that real trans women or cis women don't can't have the same or similar kind of attraction but in my case, and I can't lie to myself on a structural level - it just appears to me as me fetishizing femininity and feminine beauty. It just makes me sad that I have to accept that porn made me into this kind of freak, but I guess, it is what it is. Anyways, I just wondered how you guys saw it. Go easy on me please, I am just a clueless guys, looking for some answers :)
>>42281286At least 90% of trannies today are AGP.AGP does not always mean perverted or even sexual.There are good AGPs, bad AGPs, good HSTSes, and bad HSTSes.
>>42281309Thanks for replying!How do you differentiate between good AGP and bad AGP? And what do you mean by AGP is not always even sexual?
I get hated on by AGP believers and non believers for this take but I think it's a paraphilia caused by trauma from gender roles. All the original research on AGP predates the internet and none of those 1970s or 1980s people had the ability to have a porn addiction even if they wanted to. The kind of porn addiction you're describing only started being possible towards the mid/late 2000s and onward. I believe that in a world with less rigid gender roles, not raising young boys to view girls as a mysterious different species, society not sexualizing female bodies and clothing so much in marketing and media etc would basically eliminate AGP. I still think there would be trans people in that hypothetical and I don't think trans women are living out a 24/7 sex act whether they developed that paraphilia or not.
>>42281594that’s bs, agp is a fetish like any other, you wouldn’t say someone has a foot fetish bc they saw too many feet in marketing, it’s just a strange aberration of male heterosexuality
>>42281286>>42281383Don’t get swept up into disproven frauds like blanchard’s topology (who is equivocally laughed at by the rest of the researching community on trans studies).If you have genuine questions about learning more on gender identity and legitimacy of being trans then go through these sources and take your time to become well informed:>>42272111>>42272127>>42272155>>42272182>>42272214>>42272236>>42272255
>>42281946>blanchard’s topologygay bottoms and husstusses are homeomorphic
>>42281976>pic rel
>>42281880>you wouldn’t say someone has a foot fetish bc they saw too many feet in marketingYou chose the most anatomy based vanilla fetish to make your point. People develop interracial cuckold fetish due to centuries of racism.
>>42282056no interracial fetishes are due to physical differences of certain races. Don’t see much Asian dom porn out there
>>42282071>blatantly ignores how a history of racism could translate to a taboo fetish due to said discrimination and not the physical differences themselves
>>42281976they have different fundamental groups, do they not?
>>42281286I watched make more porn then you, i didn't make me want to take on a female role as a male, it made me want to make another make take on the female role so i can fuck them.
>>42282174How do you feel about?Are you okay with it? Or does it bug you?
>>42281946Thanks for the links!I will look into it. :)
>>42282216I don't mind, i still like women so its not like i've limited myself, the opposite really. I view it mostly as a bidexual domination fetish, because to me the prospect of getting fucked in the ass is degrading. But i know that's just my monkey brain talking, there is nothing inherently wrong with being a bottom. I think its good we are all different, that way we can both do our thing and still get off on it.
>>42282275I see yeah, that makes sense :)Well. for me personally, I would probably never consider being intimate with a guy. I was born with a male body and I personally live by biological reality. And I never really enjoy homosexual adult content and the thought of kissing or having sex as a man with another man is very uncomfortable and distressing to me. So I don't really see myself as a bottom. I also don't consider transition. I have never even cross-dressed. I wouldn't mind being a girl in my next life, but in this one, I am a guy, and I will give my best shot at it :)
>>42281286I think it's a real fetish I just don't think people actually transition because of it. People like this are the real agps and they are just kind of harmless as long as they do it in privatehttps://1819news.com/news/item/the-secret-life-of-smiths-station-mayor-and-baptist-pastor-f.l.-bubba-copeland-as-a-transgender-curvy-girl-its-a-hobby-i-do-to-relieve-stressThey're not on estrogen, they aren't living as women, they just crossdress on the weekend and jerk off. But a lot of hostility comes from the fact that they are obviously interested in actual trans people and come around into our spaces and can be disruptive.
>>42282361I think that maybe trans people just don't want to be labeled as men with a fetish by others that have ill-will against them.. Which is completely understandable. And that they reject to idea/concept of AGP to not even let it come up. I guess, it's a topic that's difficult to navigate and reconcile. Also, I don't know, that mayor story doesn't really resonate with me. I would never be able to have "such a hobby" it would just be to disgraceful and heartbreaking to me to indulge such a "hobby" for me it's more like a curse I need to resist, not something I should indulge...
>>42282361Also what do you mean by interested? Sexually interested? Or just curious about differences?
>>42282427I think there is a little bit of that, it's just transitioning is not an easy thing at all, it's not sexy as a process. Like there are castration fetishists who want their balls squished who actually go through with that, but it happens in an instant while they are horny. It's just ridiculous to imagine someone fulfilling their fetish by actually doing this over years? decades?>I would never be able to have "such a hobby"Why not? It unironically seems the most healthy approach over shaming and loathing yourself. If you fetishize transitioning, becoming a woman, turning feminine, than what's more exciting than getting to do that every weekend? and then going back to work as a guy so you can do it all again the next weekend? (Course trans women would be very distressed by this idea as they want to get the transition process over and live through the non-weekend parts as a regular woman)>Also what do you mean by interested?sometimes sexually interested, or they are interested in the physical process of transition, or they are larping as us as part of their fetish like that mayor guy was
>>42282615I don't really fetishize the idea of transitioning or "becoming a woman" My brain just thinks having sex as a woman with a man is highly erotic. but its rooted in porn. and the "desire" didn't exist before I got into porn and regularly watched it. Would I want to be a biological woman? Maybe, I guess. But I know that the desire itself is rooted in porn warping my miind, so I reject it. I am not going to indulge an illusion born by my degeneration and depravity. And I am not going to dishonor the concepts of femininity and female beauty by running around as a horny man in a dress. I have no desire to run around as a guy pretending to be a woman :)
>>42281286Take estrogen OP it will fix you. AGP is just your male T fueled brain trying to cope with dysphoria in the only way it knows how, disassociating into sexually objectified women.Once you get on E you can start to develop your actual sexuality and express yourself and your sexuality authentically.
>>42282702Having sex is sexy in general... I'm confused isn't that a pretty standard thought? Do you think it is more sexy then other sex? why? Are you attracted to men?>And I am not going to dishonor the concepts of femininity and female beauty I think it is probably not helpful to your mental worries to put such things on a pedestal. Women are just people and there is nothing special about femininity. As a big hater of the "button test" I think it's also unhelpful to ask yourself if you would want to be a biological woman, as that's not realistically on the table.
>>42281286
>>42281383>How do you differentiate between good AGP and bad AGP? It's not about different types of AGP but about people who have AGP and are good people vs. people who have AGP and are bad people.>And what do you mean by AGP is not always even sexual?Dressing up as the opposite sex to relax or for emotional comfort is AGP. Feeling dysphoria over having a male body is AGP.
>>42282744Thank you for the advice, but I don't have dysphoria though. My body doesn't feel alien to me and I don't hate it and I don't hate being my man. I want to give it my best shot at one :)
>>42282768?
>>42282702>I am not going to indulge an illusion born by my degeneration and depravity. And I am not going to dishonor the concepts of femininity and female beauty by running around as a horny man in a dress. I have no desire to run around as a guy pretending to be a woman :)This is literally you fetishising women and femininity OP. You should look up what fetishisation actually is and not the pop culture sexuality stuff.You elevate it in your mind to be something special and deserving of respect because it’s meaningful to you.
>>42282764Well. I am not attracted to men in my everyday life. The thought of doing anything homosexual - as man with other man is very uncomfortable to me. But yeah, in porn, or in sexual fantasies being the woman having a sexual engage with a man is much more erotic to my brain compared to being a man with a woman. And I am not attracted to women when I have sexual fantasies about being a woman. And you are right, the "button test" is somewhat far fetched :)
is it AGP if you never had a porn problem and only ever self inserted in solo videos havent even watched it in years and now just imagine similar scenarios sometimes with other women
>>42282801I wonder. I don't think I fetishize it, honestly. Same Is I appreciate masculine qualities, I want to properly respect feminine ones and not use it as sexual fuel for some weird kink porn got me into.
>>42282835>The thought of doing anything homosexual - as man with other man is very uncomfortable to me>in sexual fantasies being the woman having a sexual engage with a man is much more erotic to my brainAGP.Good luck repping. You might be light enough to be able to make it.I didn't even try tho because I had nothing to lose.
>>42282779Neither did I. I actually kinda liked being a guy. I thought pretty highly of my body and considered myself lucky and privileged etc.Transition would be a “waste” and I “didn’t need it”. Maybe in the next life etc.The feelings you have will never leave no matter how deep you bury them or how much you intellectualise and rationalise. Dysphoria can be pretty minor when you’re younger especially if you have a good family upbringing etc. the only “signs” I ever had was like, being kinda nerdy, not too into masculine hobbies or “boyish” behaviour just neutral. Kinda neutral sexuality I had romantic feelings for women but no strong desire to pursue them sexually. I don’t know if I’m a woman or trans or whatever I don’t think it matters too much. But my brain/sexuality makes so much more sense on E and having boobs is life changing.Like I never had “dysphoria” in any discernible way until I started working out and developed more masculine features because of it. Then I started to hate the way my body developed I always just wanted to be like androgynous or like just, didn’t care, but in retrospect there was definitely some level of disassociation or repression happening there.I dunno you do you OP but don’t hide or run from your feelings they will catch you eventually.
>>42282361that’s basically me except I take hrt
>>42282868What exactly do you think I am repressing?
>>42282868Haha yeah the idea of gay sex was nauseating to me and now I love getting destroyed by my bf lol
>>42282887Thanks for sharing your story, I appreciate it :)Well I chose to live and die as a man while still giving my best to love life. I honor the body I was born with, no matter what. I don't think I am running from feelings, but feelings don't rule over me or my reality. I don't even want a happy life. Just a meaningful life. And I can also have that as man. I do not hate being a man.:)
>>42282835no like what is erotic?? you're a woman having sex with a man. what are you fantasizing is happening? you're not attracted to his body... what is sexy?
>>42282941>no like what is erotic?? you're a woman having sex with a man. what are you fantasizing is happening? you're not attracted to his body... what is sexy?Well having sex with a man is erotic when I am a woman, absolutely not when I am biologically also a man, I guess? :) What I am fantasizing about? Anything a woman would do with a guy, kissing, penetration, oral, hugging each other afterwards etc..
>>42282986Interpersonal AGP / meta-attraction. That's the majority of straight trans women these days.
>>42282933That’s ok OP just putting it out there.Why does it matter if you are a man or a woman? Why can’t you just be a person, yourself, who or whatever you actually want to be?Everyone needs to figure out their own journey anon but you’re a bit in denial of certain things the way you’re talking in this reply imo.Like what do you mean “honour the body you’re born with”? Do you like, deny all medical treatment? Never cut your hair to keep it “natural” etc?We’re just a brain in a meat suit. What is a “man” or a “woman” even? What is “meaning” outside of the one you choose or make yourself?You present a very naturalistic or essentialist perspective here. I get it, I was kinda similar. I didn’t like medication etc when I was younger I wanted to “preserve” myself to be more so the way I was naturally etc. I was very confident that I was comfortable and happy with things the way they were etc.But you can do what you want. You only get one go at life, live it for you not anybody else.
>>42282997Yeah but it's just when I am sexually aroused. Not all the time. I would never actually be intimate with a man and would feel distressed by gay action.
>>42283028Thank you, I appreciate it.All the best to you :)
>>42282986okay but why is that more erotic then being a man doing all that with a woman? (presumably the other thing you fantasize about)
>>42281286autogynephilia is a paraphellia but imo the relationship trannies have towards it is different than cis menthere really are cis men who legitimately arent dysphoric but simply enjoy on a conceptual level at least the idea of appropriating the female form for expressly sexual purposesfor trannies agp i think develops more as a coping mechanism for dealing with dysphoria by funneling it through an erotic lenstrannies still at least start out as a men and have to cope with the desire to be a woman while dealing with a very male socialized perspective on what a woman is, and thats unfortunately a sexual object to most men/boys on some levelalso you are clearly dealing with aspects of shame regarding an innate attraction to men on some level given your comments on finding the idea of sex with men erotic as a woman but certified HARAM as a man so you should probably consider to what extent what you believe is just an extension of whats hammered into you by your social environment
>>42283072I think what makes it so erotic is that I feel sexually desired, a little vulnerable, a little proud that the guy in the fantasy "can't help himself but want me." I am not really sure if that s the whole reason, but I assume it's part of it.
agp is pseudoscience
>>42283106Thank you for your comment, it's very insightful. Honestly I am surprised I am meeting so many nice people here. I thought everyone would just hate on me and ridicule me.Maybe you are right. But I also kinda think, humans fantasize about things they wouldn't want in real life in general no?
>>42283141>humans fantasize about things they wouldn't want in real life in general no?reasons for sexualizing things vary dramatically, frankly i dont think it matters so much why it is you enjoy autogynephilic fantasies unless youre actually dealing with dysphoria yourself, in which case you should work to deal with that, but otherwise i would let yourself enjoy your fantasiesits truly not harmful to turned on by weird shit, no matter how much people try to convey to you that its representative of some flawed internal morals or whatever garbage, just enjoy yourselfif you have attraction to men on some level you might want to explore that, though it can be difficult to overcome aspects of rather deep seated shame regarding thatits kind of funny given that what youre describing is a relatively common pathway for trannies to discover their own attraction to men, realizing that they actually do like men genuinely but were too caught up in the shame of it being a homosexual (and therefore gross in accordance with heteronormative views) thing, only to transition and eschew that shame enough to accept that aspect of themselves
>>42281286Regardless of how you deal with it, hating yourself/a part of you is not gonna do anything productive for you and will only keep you stuck in a neurotic thought loop. The more you hate it, the more powerful it becomes in your mind. At the end of the day, humans are all weird in their own ways. And you're not fucking corpses or lusting after children or whatever. Being AGP is much farther down on the hierarchy of fucked up kinks than you think it is. The extreme shame you're subjecting yourself to is uncalled for and does nothing but hurt you. I'm not telling you that you need to troon out or repress, I'm just saying that as long as you're spending all this energy hating this part of you, you're not gonna gain any insight into why you feel this way, what emotional/psychological need it springs from and what the best course of action is for you. It really doesn't matter what people think of you or this part of you. What matters is figuring out what's best for you and doing it. Some people realize their AGP is actually their latent dysphoria manifesting through their sexuality and it may or may not resolve after transitioning. Some people just have it as a kink and feel no need to identify differently or transition. Others realize the AGP feelings are the manifestation of some other psychological thing they have going on and resolve it or coexist with it in some way. No one can tell you who or what you are or what is right for you. You have to dig deep and figure it out for yourself. But this starts with letting go of the shame and self hatred and just looking these feelings in the eye so you can actually understand them instead of turning away out of fear of what you might find at their roots.
>>42283109Hmm I think wanting to be sexually desired in that way isn't that crazy of a thing to fantasize about. I'm not sure how to help with that because you sound a little insecure and maybe a little lonely and those aren't exactly easy things to fix. And that sort of black and white sexual hunger/lust that men often get towards women is easy to comprehend while they way women are attracted back towards men is maybe more complicated? I also agree with the other anon that you have some sexual interest in men. Would you say you are more submissive?
>>42282361I'm an agp like this. It's a lot of fun. I come to /lgbt/ cuz I'm bi, but if there were a /cd/ board on 4chan I'd likely spend more time there.
>>42281286autogynephilia is stupid as a concept.>guhh you like dresses you're an evil jerkoff tranny for wanting to be pretty stop being a vile fetishist hrrrgrri mean, you can argue that some people do jerk off to being feminine or whatever but still.sissy_brad_64xx != annie the boymoder
>>42282104Yes, because anti-Asian discrimination also exists/ed.
>>42283319>Would you say you are more submissive?Hm... I don't think so? Not as a man, no. In AGP-fantasies? Probably yeah. But not in any "please spank me daddy" way. I have never been into degrading stuff, or "sissy"-stuff.I am not sure it's even submissive in the sense most people mean, it's more like wanting to embrace the guy in the fantasies and wanting to soothe him. Kinda similar to how you would keep petting a cat that has bitten you to reduce it's anxiety, I think? I am not sure if that's what people would call submissive.
>>42281286I have been AGP long before viewing porn. It is probably my primary sexuality. I used to dress up in a toilet paper bra in the bathroom when I was 8, and I discovered masturbation when I tried to remove my penis around that time. I would crossdress frequently, and felt sexually dysfunctional in every relationship I've ever been in. If I do view porn, feminization content/self inserting as the girl is the only way I can enjoy it. But irl I manmode and present as cis with a masc personality. I started hrt a few months ago, and I am contemplating a full transition
>>42283279Thank you for your thoughtful response, I appreciate you :) I honestly don't constantly think about this. It's just phases and I do my best to focus on good and beautiful things in life. But yeah, I do sometimes look at this part of "myself" with disgust. That doesn't mean I hate myself as a whole person. I just see it as a burden I need to bear, I guess. I have already decided long ago that I want to live life as a man. I love masculinity so I am not afraid to embrace my own masculinity. I think there is something sacred about being a strong man that wants to uplift the world around him and build things, and is strong for others and can bear negative emotions and pain without complaint. I want to live up to that ideal. :) So, personally even if I was sure it meant something deeper - which I doubt - I would still choose to live as a man without regrets. Though to be fair, I do play MMOs with a female video game character and I do project/self-insert there. But I honestly think this is just my porn conditioned brain sexualizing that.
>>42281880People do often say foot fetishes happen because something weird related to feet happened to them as a kid.
>>42285847Thanks for sharing. Well, if you had those feelings and desires prior to born, then personally I don't see it as twisted or depraved by porn. I don't think the desire itself is disgusting, but my case I think for me it's disgusting because I see it tainted and rooted in porn, if that makes sense. I do think, that there are pure and "innocent" version of what you describe. But mine artificial and depraved and it wouldn't exist without porn. At least, that's how it feels to me.
>>42282768
>>42285914Sorry, I don't really get why you mean with that picture.
>>42285937idk i thought it would be funnysorry it's off topic
>>42285948Oh that's fine :)I just just curious. I didn't know the picture prior to this thread.
>>42281286I dunno if it's real. I think I have it. But every time I talk about AGP people tell me that isn't what it means. I never understood the whole meta-attraction thing. Not sure if it's a valid reason to troon but I think you might be brainworming yourself too much.
>>42286006>Not sure if it's a valid reason to troon but I think you might be brainworming yourself too much.Maybe yeah. To be honest, I think, in a few days, I will stop thinking about it and keep living my life as usual. I don't constantly obsess over this. Life is busy enough with social stuff and work. So most of the time I just live life and go with the flow. But I guess, I was just curious about what you all on here thought about the concept of AGP :)
