So has everybody on this board just read Fagles' Iliad translation? I know we're all actively avoiding Wilson's translation, and I never see Lattimore mentioned, so I assume for everybody on here the go-to is just Fagles.
>>24942777I'm so intimidated I can't stop laughing.
>>24942800I'm with this anon. Seems like Green found the perfect mix of readability and translation accuracy by being close to the original meter but dropping it.
>>24949370>La colera o diosa barf
>>24949557His approach is very similar to Lattimore's, both use a mostly 6 beat line to imitate the 6 feet in Homeric meter. Lattimore is slightly looser, allowing himself to occassionally use 5 or 7 beat lines, which means he can get a better natural rhythm when it suits, and in a way it emulates the differing lengths of Homeric lines (a long syllable was equivalent to two short ones, so you could have between 12 and 17 total per line).Lattimore>and its devastation, which puts pains thousandfold upon the Achaians,>hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades strong souls>of heroes, but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting>of dogs, of all birds, and the will of Zeus was accomplishedGreen>calamitous wrath, which hit the Achaians with countless ills—>many the valiant souls it saw off down to Hādēs,>souls of heroes, their selves left as carrion for dogs>and all birds of prey, and the plan of Zeus was fulfilled
>>24951013>a long syllable was equivalent to two short ones
Thoughts on Pyrrhonism?
>>24950720It's hilarious that, in the 4th century BC, you could found your own "school of philosophy" by traveling to India with Alexander the Great and learning from the gymnosophist grand ascetics that "different people believe different things."We live in hell.
>>24950733People today have access to so many different views that any intelligent person who explores them will be considerably less at ease with any one perspective. Being exposed to India didn't just bring exposure to Buddhist ideas, it also showed first-hand how very diverse views could be and how they all took themselves as dogma.Juan Donoso Cortés actually feared this, in his essay on Catholicism, Liberalism and Socialism, he says that the great cacophony of views and dogmas will just drive society to nihilism, and that, he argues, is justification for enforcing Catholicism and stamping out opposing viewpoints
>>24950720Anything is better than reading the usual platostotle slop.
>>24951215Not a great plan
>>24951215Why are Catholics so dumb?
Apologize.
>>24950957well, i contributed more to the discussion than you, and for all the noncaring you still replied you fucking faggot
>>24951064Your diarrhea mouth is not a meaningful contributing to the discussion. You should become a tripfag so it will be easier to ignore you in the future.-Doctor Sax
>>24951106no, i will continue posting anonymus so you will be forced to come across my commentson the other hand, you still havend said anything of substance, could it be that you are a beatnik and are offended at every critiscm hurled at them
On the Road really reveals two different types of people: Those who finish the book, take the ending as especially important, and are disillusioned. The others take the bulk of the book and are electrified by its energy, wit and exuberance. Me, I'm the latter.
>>24951127tldr
In a world where 90% of the internet traffic is online video streaming, to detriment of the environment and our minds, why aren't you rejecting modernity and going to the library? The library is literally free and fun for all ages. It is the most environmentally and civic minded thing you can do. Instead of being in a haze of pleasure, living in a digital cocoon of reels and streams, why aren't you forging the future of humanity? The weight of the world is on your shoulders and only you can make a better world.
>>24945338>And I can't hang out in a nice library like Toronto's reference library, because I was born in Suburban Hell.This is my regular spot and its every bit as magical as you'd imagine. cute girls too
>>24943966>All your actions will be judged one day by a super intelligence and they will pinpoint the exact moment your marginal notes in a book had convinced the world's next global Napoleon to create a political system that will solve all the existential crises of the world: climate change, war, poverty, disease, political collapse, and the nuclear holocaust!>The library is the mind of society and shall dictate where our future world consciousness may tread. You begin as a humble bookworm, but your actions will echo throughout the centuries, and your ideas will forge the next explorers of the universe!
>>24943918I love the library, the service keeps getting better here.
>>24943994>However it's filled to the brim with eastern Europeans somehow.Do you by any chance live in eastern europe.
>>24943918If your library sucks, you're most likely poor
>can't win over blacks>can't win over poorfags>outright enemies of blue collar workers>not taken seriously/ seen as useful idiots by their intellectually inferior middle class liberal pragmatic allies >can't/won't win over the armed forces>can't/won't win over the intelligence agencies>can't/won't win over the politicians>decent success rate with middle class children (dropped by junior yr), academics, homosexuals and trannys.Is there a book which explains how this leads to revolutionary success or should i just see all the le-science-of-hisory 2-more-weeksism from the past 200 years?
Communists used to have a lot of success with the working class. Usually in very backward countries that were more feudal than industrial.
>>24951056The bug eating is being pressed by neoliberal internationalist commercial imperialism. The same people who have obscured the origins of the revolutionary age and turned you into a mere consumer slave and an proud autist of the anti-immigrant party>>24951140>World Economic Forum is marginally about global capitalUhh
>>24951157No. Their means are capitalist, their structure and ends are communist. Read the Trotskyists.
>>24950519>>24950644>>24950906>>24950919Great posts. I declare this the official political economy and history thread.
>>24951160>their structure and ends areTHE EXACT SAME AS ANY IMPERIALISM. The bugaboo about the NWO and One World Government is real. The liberal capitalist elites have always wanted this, and the socialists, communists and anarchists found them out from the earliest days. Their alternative is to keep localized controls. Marxism is a stupid fantasy that was well funded and encouraged by capitalists only to create a Fabian like villain to obscure the actual revolutionary goal of All Power to the People (not their stupid political parties)Their structure is not specifically Marxist-Leninist, but whatever authoritarian system works, they will use it.The goal of the commune is in the fucking name and the origin of the word. Trotsky killed true socialists in the Black Army after they helped rid Ukraine of the White tzarists. He was a reactionary traitor.>>24951156They only have temporary success because all they have is the baffle with bullshit tactic
>december 2025>novel still unfinished
>>24948774I was just thinking about getting back into writing since the holiday season is upon us. But at least you started something. What I am going to try is just do short works. Rather than trying to do a magnum opus which will never happen until far in the future. I also always sputter off around 50k words anyway.
>published a short story collection last october>hung up on a fanfic I haven't finished in 3 yearsI am God's silliest punchline.
>>24949403The last 10% is the most difficult and longest part, anon.
>>24948774Hey man dont fret, Rome wasn't built in a day:^)
>>24950537The strongest motivation ive had after a real bad rut was listening to Robert Rodriguez's recent appearance on Rogan. His outlook on life is fascinating, and infectious. Got more writing done than I have in a long while after listening to that.https://youtu.be/KxGtxPV1xoc?si=17WdXC5wyld5tDRv
This book changed my life for the better
>>24951147U mad, Tristan?
>>24950598>i don't think it's a "vast majority"It's the vast majority.
how to please womenstep 1: do not be eager to please women
>>24946749I am circumcised and therefore not physically capable of pleasuring a woman, so unfortunately I will have to pass on this one
>>24948751who's gonna tell him
Two Weeks Left Edition>Old:>>24936611>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs):https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/4rAmSZxb>Archive:https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg>Goodreads:https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg
>>24951209>Proper NOVELS are rare in Japanese publishing.Pretty grim.
>>24951209>and illustrations.interestingly it's a way of making money for artists beyond just covers
>>24951190>>24951181>>24951195>>24951209thank you for enlighting me
>>24951216it's not better or worse, just a different market. it should be noted novels that get translated to japanese don't transform into light novels so it's just native works.
>>24951216Just a sign of where the money is. Japan had a big novel-publishing industry in the 20th century, but it's mostly shifted gears toward light novels and web novels since that's what people are reading.
Do Tolkiendrones realize that fantasy existed before Lord of the Rings and that it suffered greatly from Big Fat Fantasy and other sloppy derivatives that grew like viruses from Tolkien's wen? https://voca.ro/1Rwc7lMX0hfT
>>24948235*Techno-fascism or the industrial age. He's kind of like uncle Ted like this.
>>24951130Ted was a nutter, a primativist. Tolkien was merely nostalgic for a slightly earlier era of civilization, before rapacious expansion and greed caused it to fall completely out of balance with nature. Ted would've turned his dissatisfaction with society toward Tolkien's ilk after the industrialists were all dead. I'd argue Tolkien was not even anti-progress, he simply did not like the way industry had become an all-devouring engine that demolished the world around it. Thoughtless, heedless progress was something he wrote against. Comes up again and again.
>>24951176Ted wasn't crazy. His influence of course was Ellul. Not sure what Tolkien may have thought of him, but his thoughts seem to me to be inspired by some socialist thoughts of his youth, notably from William Morris' News From Nowhere. Which has a rather Shire like description of London in the early 21st century IF a revolution had happened a hundred years before.Why I said "like uncle Ted"
>he wrote an epic in an elevated style>he's not inclusive>he promotes hierarchies and aristocracy>he believes in objective truth and natural rights>he wrote that fantasy isn't just escapism>THAT IS A REVOLTING IDEAI laughed so hard. Seethe harder.
>>24951232>Quotes found in my own turds!>Very reliable! kys
I just finished reading Journey to the West for a book report. holy shit Chinese books are awesome. Does anyone have the china /lit/ recommendations?
>>24948810Give it a rest man. This "poetry can't be translated" thing has been a dead end non-point for centuries. Just read some. Read this, for example.
>>24947522YOU UYGURYOU HAN HATE FIERCEWHY YOU ARWAYS FUCKING RATE
>>24948830I didn't say it's impossible, but it's a lot harder and more subjective.
>>24947522Yu Hua's To Live is one of the best chinese books ever, it has been in top 10 monthly bestsellers in china for like last 30 years and it is great for learning chinese. It's been nicknamed 'Chinese Forrest Gump', but it is much better and does not rely on 'epic reference' basedjak writing.Red Sorghum by Mo Yen is another modern classic, but it is far more experimental in it's non-linear narrative that is like some kind of collective flow of mind.The two books also cover similar time period - sino-japanese war and early communist times (To Live starts earlier and goes further).Start with these - they are basically an equivalent of starting american literature with Hemingway, Steinbeck and Firzgerald (which most do) - classics but not ancient. Like when you want to get into british literature you do not start with Beowulf or Canterbury Tales.Sure knowing Confucius and Lao Tse will make those two books (especially To Live) better, but they are good even without it.
>>24947877in other words, no understanding at all?
thoughts on this guy?
>>24949859he's ehhh rather poekay
>>24949859Incredibly underrated. In American literature there is Melville and Poe and no third fiddle.
>>24950104Emerson.
>>24950104Clark Ashton Smith
>>24951192I think by "American Literature" he meant something other than this quick decent into dime store schlock of the ages>Herman Melville, Edgar Allan Poe, Clarke Ashton Smith, William Moulton Marston, Chuck Tingle.More the greats of an age.>Melville, Darwin, NietzscheBut of course a region as well>Meleville, Emerson, Whitman.
Would anyone be interested in participating? Seems like a nice alternative to Wikipedia reading
Desperately reconcile with your irredeemable faith, sheep.
>>24951057Because thats what atheists do. Most are social progressives afraid of being called racist.
>>24951083This level of bad faith armchair psychology around atheism is a cope for how absurd it is to believe that the creator of everything is your friend that you can talk to at all times and thinks you're his special boy. Saying that atheists aren't critical of Islam is also just insanely retarded, same goes for your statement about religion not being an important issue.
>>24948329Why are anglos so fucking despicable bros?
>>24951165You tell me Achmed
>>24951164>And if you say it isn't we will kill youYou forgot to post the gigachad bro
Apparently there’s a phenomenon in American high schools right now of not assigning full novels to students, but only having them read excerpts. I graduated a decade ago, and I distinctly remember us reading Gatsby and Slaughterhouse Five. What novels, if any, were you made to read in high school?
>>24951097Slaughterhouse Five, Great Gatsby, Tale of Two Cities, a few Shakespeare plays, a few really awful contemporary lit novels, As I Lay Dying, Moby Dick, a number of other ones I can't remember. Senior year was pretty much all poetry and for that we did read from anthologies instead of published poetry books. Freshman year was the only year they focused on essays over novels but we always read complete works as opposed to excerpts.
>>24951097The Scarlet Letter, The Great Gatsby, Huckleberry Finn, The Outsiders, Animal Farm, To Kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice & Men, The Grapes of Wrath, Old Man and the Sea, Catcher in the Rye, Fahrenheit 451, Ethan Frome, The Call of the Wild... That's what I remember, but I might be mixing middle and high school together. Of all those, Hawthorne and Steinbeck are far and away the best.>Where Hawthorne is known, he seems to be deemed a pleasant writer, with a pleasant style,--a sequestered, harmless man, from whom any deep and weighty thing would hardly be anticipated:--a man who means no meanings. But there is no man, in whom humor and love, like mountain peaks, soar to such a rapt height, as to receive the irradiations of the upper skies;--there is no man in whom humor and love are developed in that high form called genius; no such man can exist without also possessing, as the indispensable complement of these, a great, deep intellect, which drops down into the universe like a plummet. Or, love and humor are only the eyes, through which such an intellect views this world. The great beauty in such a mind is but the product of its strength.>In treating of Hawthorne, or rather of Hawthorne in his writings (for I never saw the man; and in the chances of a quiet plantation life, remote from his haunts, perhaps never shall) in treating of his works, I say, I have thus far omitted all mention of his "Twice Told Tales," and "Scarlet Letter." Both are excellent, but full of such manifold, strange and diffusive beauties, that time would all but fail me, to point the half of them out. But there are things in those two books, which, had they been written in England a century ago, Nathaniel Hawthorne had utterly displaced many of the bright names we now revere on authority. But I content to leave Hawthorne to himself, and to the infallible finding of posterity; and however great may be the praise I have bestowed upon him, I feel, that in so doing, I have more served and honored myself, than him. For at bottom, great excellence is praise enough to itself; but the feeling of a sincere and appreciative love and admiration towards it, this is relieved by utterance; and warm, honest praise ever leaves a pleasant flavor in the mouth; and it is an honorable thing to confess to what is honorable in others.
>>24951097This is what I remember reading. I'm sure there were a few others.>To Kill a Mockingbird>Lord of the Flies>Frankenstein>The Adventures of Tom Sawyer>1984>The Jungle, Sinclair>The Great Gatsby>The Trial>My Antonia, Cathar>Out Stealing Horses, Petterson>Harrison BergeronComment too long. Click here to view the full text.
>What makes you think you're good enough to write a book?
>>24949843The publishing industry is probably one of the best examples of this too.
I like the smell of my own arts
>>24949126So kind of you to grace us with your presence, your Majesty.
>>24948669SIR! I got a 5 on the AP language and literature exams. SIR!
>>24948669Typical heathead thing to say.Anyone can write a book. Is it good enough to be read is the decision others can make for themselves.
