Cynic edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>23256805NOTE: replace ' dot ' with an actual dot to access the links below>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANEhttps://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRgFeel free to write your thoughts/stories/etc... in your target language.>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoYou are very welcome to suggest additions/changes/etc... especially for other classical languages
Continuing the pronunciation discussion, what pronunciation do other CC anons use? Personally I mostly use Mandarin but I've considered switching to Cantonese (because it seems like the best compromise between preserved distinctions and amount of audio material) or Japanese (because it's the only modern East Asian vernacular I have any fluency in).
>>23288581Mandarin because I already know Mandarinand 90%+ of resources use Mandarin readingsI don't think it's important at all, because CC is a written language not a spoken language
>>23288637I think there's something to be said for meter (and rhyme) just like in Greek and Latin. But hardly anyone uses reconstructed pronunciation except as a philological exercise.
>>23288574>nothing in Latin at my skill level is interestingCaesar is so boring, bros. Is there anything better that I'm overlooking?
>>23288637Isn't written Chinese read with Cantonese reflexes by Cantonese speakers?
>>23288662There's the Historia Augusta, a collection of 30 biographies from Hadrian to the end of the Crisis of the Third Century, written in relatively easy latin, I began to read it before I started Caesar and it seemed pretty easy thenhttps://www.thelatinlibrary.com/sha.html
>>23288581Mando or Japanese depending on how I'm feeling, except for poetry which I always take care to read in Mando. Most of my physical CC books are sinophone with at least some Modern Written Chinese annotation and so I default to Mando.
>>23288574Salvete amici!Pronuntiatio classica optima est.
>>23288680How did you learn to do kundoku?
>>23288817Basatus
>>23288929I didn't, not really. I just learned regular kanbun once.
>>23289001Eh? So how do you read it exactly?
>>23289051Now I read it with an ungodly mix of intentionally kambun-ing it, kunyomi, and lapsing into Mando for quotations from texts I've read in Mando. My brain is a cacophony.
>>23289084That honestly sounds interesting in its own way.
How many words do we know exclusively from Virgil? Reading portions of the Aeneid is fucking me up entirely due to vocab I've never encountered before, the grammar is pretty manageable.
Adiuvāte mē, sodālēs. Magnō in perīculō mē habeō.Quādam nocte placidē dormiēbam in lectulō. Subitō autem lūx viridis, quae mē terruit, per fenestram intrāvit mēque inlūmināvit.Nesciō quid tunc acciderit; at iam nōn domī, sed in mēnsā iacēbam inter multās mīrābilēsque māchinās: nōn dubium erat quīn ab aliēnigenīs abductus essem.Ecce mōnstrum īnfandum stāns prope mē vīdī. Erat homunculus tenuis, cute cinereō, capite magnō rotundōque, magnīs oculīs, et nūllīs capillīs. Aliēnigena iste parvā vōce tunc mihi dīxit:"Rōōōōma in Itāāāāāliā est".Equidem vix spīrāre ob timōrem poteram. Nihil magis meminisse possum. Māne experrēctus sum in lectulō meō, nūdus, et litterīs cruentīs super pectus mihi scrīptum erat "The Ranieri-Hill abduction method®".Ō dī bonī, quid faciam? Timeō nē dēnuō aliēnigena ille mē abdūcat.Adiuvāte mē, sodālēs.
>>23288817optume!
>>23289193kæk
>>23289193What do you get out of this? If you go to the trouble of learning Latin why not apply that towards something substantial?
>>23289193>un post sull'uomo calvo>non si ha usata la parola "calvus"pessimo>parla in una lingua classical'italiano è il latino moderno, non ne sai, chud?
>>23289238i in malam crucem furcifer.
>>23289238Esne tu homunculus calvus ille?
>>23289320Noli deridere meum magistrum virosum. Etsi calvus, nullus capillus revelat quantopere magnum suum cerebrum est. Oditor.
>>23289514Post scriptum: hic "virosus" est>"vir" + "osus"non>"virus" + "osus"
ποῦ ἄρξω ἀρχαίαν ἑλληνικὴν μανθάνειν;>ποῦ ἄρξω ἀρχαίαν ἑλληνικὴν μανθάνειν;
>>23289518Discipulus mī, vocābulum melius "virīlis" sit.
>>23289551Te amo, magister!
>>23289555Egō quoque tē amō, mī discipule. (Meus prior postis non grammaticē rēctus erat, hahahahae!)
>>23289193>>23289551>>23289603desiste
https://kemono.su/patreon/user/8849202
>>23289204>ille eße Sallustium putat
>>23289522ἐγῶ μᾶλλον ἂν ἒγραψα>πῶς ἂρχωμαι ἂν τοῦ ἀρχαίαν ἑλληνικὴν μανθάνειν;
>>23290376>ἐγῶ*ἐγώγε, μεταμέλει μοι
I didn't know where else to ask this, so I'll ask it here.I'm wanting to get into Plato's Dialougues, and I'm looking at translations, and I see that the most prolific translator of Plato's works into English is by a guy named Jowett. The accusation was made that Jowett modified the material to remove or tone down any themes he thought would disturb his Victorian readers, like mentions of homosexuality.Is this true? Does Jowett change the material for an Anglican audience? If so, is there a good translation by somebody more accurate? Or is it blown out of proportion? Any help would be appreciated.
>>23290884My experiences with Jowett is that he does take quite a few liberties as a translator. It wouldn't surprise me if sometimes he translated according to the mores of his time. In any case, this old thread has a comparison between several translators on a passage of the Apology, including Jowett's.https://warosu.org/lit/thread/21535298
>>23290899This is very helpful, thank you very much.
>>23290884reading Plato translated into English is like reading Shakespeare translated into ebonics
>>23291156You could say the same thing about any Greek translation.
>>23291156Is there a Classical Greek to English dictionary you would recommend? I also want to get the Loeb Classics versions of Plutarch, and I want to read along in both English and Greek.
>>23291211Middle LSJ is the best.
>>23291234What about the Cambridge? If somebody's talking about sucking cocks I don't want to get cheated out of that.
>>23291253Idk I don't have it. Better for erotic poetry and Aristophanes, as you say, but middle LSJ is probably better for most reading since don't want to be dictionary flipping too much and the Cambridge one looks pretty big. Also, most of the time you can figure out when LSJ is downplaying/censoring something, and then you could just look it up online. Still, maybe another anon who's used it could speak more about this.
Might have to get it for myself, THOUGH. Been reading some of the Anthologia Graeca recently and there's no way some of these poems aren't calling women "slut", "bitch" etc. despite LSJ just saying they're being called "lustful" and "irritate"
Hey fellas, I’m just looking for what you would say is the greatest translation of Ovid’s Metamorphoses for me to suggest to a friend. I can only read simple Latin and have no vocabulary, but I’ve compared the Loeb with Lombardo a little and think the Loeb’s more accurate and poetic. Recommendations? Anything equal to the Loeb that isn’t as expensive?
>>23291171yup
>>23289153idk about Virgil exclusively but that's poetry for you broadly, rarer poetic words are going to challenge your basic prose lexicon, but through Virgil itself you should gain a broad new lexical base for other poetry too
>>23289522ἀλλ' ὤ φίλε τύνη νυν Ἑλληνιστὶ 'γραψαςchecked the FAQ?
>>23283580>Old Norse and especially Old English are not classical languages.A classical language is a language during its classical period, which is highly relative to each individual language. Old Norse has a classical period (medieval), which stands in stark contrast to its primitive period (Viking age), and all in all, "Old Norse" spans roughly 800 years of language development.
>>23292776
Is Hackett's Plato: Complete Works a decent collection? Is there anything left out or missing?
>>23289193Cachinnāvī
>>23293911>Is there anything left out or missing?No, it contains almost everything that has been put in Plato's name. I found the translations, however, pretty dry, often unfaithful and anachronistic. It's only really useful if you have access to the texts in Greek.
>>23294585Is there any you would recommend?
>imagine using accents and breathing marks while writing in Greek
>>23294674I'm not a native English speaker so my experience is limited but I would look for translations made by scholars who have studied that specific dialogue (e.g. Bloom's Republic).
Anyone know a decent PDF hosting site these days? Trying to post a progress update on my Sanskrit reader.
I'm starting with learning Homeric Greek by reading a Loeb edition and just transcribing the nouns and epithets, is that an ok first start? I'm just practicing my reading fluency. What should my next step be?
>>23294970you mean you are starting Greek overall by going through Homer with an english parallel? if you like Homeric works then I guess it's ok to practice the letters if it gets you going but to go further you probably want something more structured, there's a book suggested in the FAQ that does start from Homeric Greek as opposed to the usual Attic but personally idk about this approach, there was another anon I think reading it(it's Pharr's); otherwise the usual Attic route is probably the safe bet
>>23293359ma gee key moy...
>>23292776>mow-toos int-air do-ossquid hoc sibi vult?
>>23294970that won't take you very far. try pharr's homeric greek
God fucking damn itI just solved two words I had been having issues with for 2 days The first was because there was a space missing and so 2 words were conjoined The second was because the shitty OCR software had read a h as a bI have completely lost my faith in the source I'm getting these texts from now
>>23295952what's your source?
>>23295990heimskringla.no
>>23296139Most of those translations are incorrect
>>23294961I have no idea but I do want to say that I'd like to harvest your reader, as I am approaching the end of Ruppel's reader right now and I would prefer to have a stockpile of these to prevent dictionary lookup-based Weltschmerz from arising.
>>23296467I add an average of six lines per day which means I'll probably be done with the marriage of Nala and Damayanti in about a month. I want to convert all of Lanman's reader though.
>Quid tibi vis, mulier nigris dignissima barris?Wtf, Horace...
Ðð and Þþ are the same; prove me wrong (you can't).
>>23293359Wasn't this actually a textbook of some pidgin that evolved from Japanese, not actual Japanese?
>>23297677https://www.reddit.com/r/ArchivePorn/comments/66qnyu/1870s_book_with_the_purpose_of_humour_and/>Some twenty years ago, this writer referred to Exercises in the Yokohama Dialect in Yokohama in the Meiji Era. As Frank Daniels (1948) states, “for all its fooling (humorous 'English' spellings of Japanese words, mock-serious grammatical notes, etc.), ” the pamphlet shows its author to have been “an acute and accurate observer.” The review of the pamphlet in The Japan Gazette (Nov. 1, 1879), reprinted from The New Quarterly Magazine, indicates the author of the pamphlet was Hoffman Atkinson, though his name does not appear on any of the copies this writer has seen. Hoffman Atkinson was a resident of Yokohama for several years and later became secretary of the American Legation in St. Petersburg. No copy of the first edition has been found, but its review is found in The Japan Weekly Mail (Nov. 22, 1873). A copy of the second edition (1874), as well as some copies of the revised and enlarged edition, has been kept in the Yokohama Archives of History. The edition, revised and enlarged by “the Bishop of Homoco, ” was published in 1879, and has been reprinted many times, though the date of reprint is not always included. Some facts about F. A. Cope, whose pseudonym was “the Bishop of Homoco, ” and about John Grigor and Ng Choy, to whom, in addition to Max Muller, the pamphlet was dedicated, have been ascertained.
>>23296344That's why I posted it.
>>23290079God bless. Fuck baldman.
>>23297305They're not. They were interchangeable in Old English since the voicing was allophonic.>>23296038Which text and edition had an issue?
>>23298692https://heimskringla.no/wiki/Fj%C3%B6rut%C3%ADu_%C3%8Dslendinga_%C3%BE%C3%A6ttir:_%C3%9E%C3%B3rsteins_%C3%BE%C3%A1ttr_stangarh%C3%B6ggsI tried seeing if I could find the original texts as scans but I couldn'tI compared it to this which is in Icelandic but for example you have oklíklegt but og líklegt in the icelandic texthttps://www.snerpa.is/net/isl/stangar.htmThere is also best instead of hest at á móti best
>>23298704Btw in retrospect it probably seems obvious but as a beginner it is terrifying encountering this
How is this supposed to prevent him from following their footsteps.
>>23299035He'll follow them backwards, since the tracks are backwards
>>23288574Does anyone know where these audibooks have gone? All the links are dead to me:https://subsidia.vivariumnovum.it/risorse-didattiche/per-la-propria-formazione/audiolibriSome guy (https://www.youtube.com/@OnlineLatina/videos) uploaded a few of the recordings to YouTube, but other than that I find nothing.They are full recordings. The pronunciation is ecclesiastical but given how rare it is to find Latin audiobooks it doesn't bother me, and the reader has a good Spanish accent and intonation, so it's not monotonous.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PZ18Wjqt1w
>>23299088That doesn’t make any sense.
>>23299035Heracles can tell the direction in which the tracks are pointing, so he's never gonna follow backwards since he wants to reach them not backtrack their steps
>>23296506In any case, I hope I'll notice when you do post it, seeing as I don't haunt this thread very frequently.
What's the /clg/ equivalent of dekinai? ἀδύνατος?
>>23299658You follow tracks in the direction they’re in, so if you have backwards tracks Hercules will go the wrong way
>>23299731>>23299974>cows missing from field>tracks lead to field but nowhere from it>even though I didn't lead them that way>oh well must be an unsolved mystery
>>23300054well if you are stealing cows you better at least try not making it too obvious where they were lead to, and lifting them over your shoulders isn't practicable
Any sanskritists know what the fuck is up with the Clay library? Why do they not only use ugly romanizations but weird variant texts that differ from the received ones in India?Are there any nicer printed editions?
>>23299890please don't bring /jp/faggotry to /clg/
>>23294698qrd?
>>23298704>I tried seeing if I could find the original texts as scans but I couldn'tAs in Þórleifur Jónsson's edition, which is the one on heimskringla that you linked? Yeah, me neither.As in just the text in any edition? There's lots, and I mean lots, of manuscript scans with variations of this particular þáttr that you can read.As in the most original one there is? The only thing I could find was this fragment. Knock yourself out:https://handrit.is/manuscript/view/is/AM02-0162C/36?iabr=on#page/7r/mode/2upI absolutely wouldn't go on knocking heimskringla.no for this. That's rather absurd. That's like knocking Wikipedia itself for what someone writes in an article. Heimskringla.no publishes digitized >editions<, as published by philologists, free for everyone to view. I think that's kneelworthy.
>>23301031Didn't that meme date back to /djt/'s /a/ days?
>>23301064I assumed they did the digitisation themselves, that was my problem
>>23301127Well, obviously, but "completely losing faith in the source" for a slight error in a low profile text, that you got digital access to for free, is a bit ?????. Heimskringla.no is a great treasure.
Is saying I am John versus John I am the same as if you said ego sum John versus John ego sum to the Romans? Both are fine in English but John I am is more poetical and would be weird in everyday speech.
>>23301323kinda, in terms more of drawing attention to the first word though, even though both are perfectly fine, although ego used like that would normally only appear as a form of intensive pronoun, i.e "ego sum John" = "I myself am John(and not that other guy)", vs "John ego sum" = "I am John(and not Jack)" idk if I get the pointwheras normally you could omit the ego altogether
It's coming along
Finished almost all of LLPSI, then spent a good two months doing not a single good thing with my life. Getting back into Latin now, and my ability has suffered greatly because of this big gap, so I thought to go through the first twenty chapters of LLPSI again, but my fucking god is it boring. I will do it, yes, but I will rightly bitch and whine every single chapter along the way. Then I'll ditch this shit and go read GALLIA EST OMNIS DIVISA IN PARTES TRES to my heart's content.
>>23301569Latest page
>>23301571I enjoyed the first 5 chapters of Roma Aeterna, nice Oerberg prose at authenic/near authentic difficulty. I would suggest them, and the difficulty "spike" isn't that much, especially if you're reading LLPSI again
>>23301583By all of LLPSI I meant Familia Romana specifically, while I haven't checked it out yet and thus can't say much about it Roma Aeterna would probably rape me.
It's so beautiful, this blessing
>>23301569Which edition is that?
I started learning Classic Maya and Middle Egyptian at the same time today. Interesting languages. They both have their own quirky shortcuts in their glyphs and write in blocks. But the Mayan glyphs are more beautiful in my opinion, and it has a cool syllabary system that's like the Japanese kana. Egyptian glyphs are definitely easier to understand and and write so far. Doing single-syllable glyph quizzes.
>>23302453Also the first word in the Maya lexicon section, in the book I'm going through, is the word penis (aat), and the glyph is a penis.
How do I learn Classical Chinese? Does anyone have any resources to recommend? My background is about 10 years of Chinese lessons, some of which I've forgotten but I should be able to pick it back up quickly.
>>23302509An anon here made an image showing the different books he suggestsIIRC it was >Classical Chinese for Everyone>An Introduction to Literary Chinese>Chinese Through Poetry
>>23302161My own
>>23301571I stopped reading LLPSI at chapter 25 and went onto the vulgate then Caesar but I think I'm lacking the skills to read it properly despite the fact I've read an entire book and a half of De Bello Gallico. I've basically learnt half of my Latin via osmosis which is the very lazy (and incorrect) way of reading LLPSI, I think I need to just go over it all again and refresh myself and properly learn and remember grammar other than just knowing it because of how much I've seen it.
>>23302775Shame, you've done a great job! Something like that would be truly wonderful for developing some fluency in reading.
>>23302832You should finish LLPSI. Just don't move on to RA.
>>23302958I'll release it as a free PDF when done in about a month
>>23303119That's great, thank you so much then
>>23300854I haven't actually checked any of them, but Ruppel suggests these on her website (cambridge-sanskrit dot org).
>>23302509Fuller - an introduction to literary ChineseUse it
Weren't the Loeb books in the mega at some point? I've downloaded several books some time ago, but I don't remember if it was from there or somewhere else.
>>23304372It was a mega on /lit/, long since lost to time. Lit has the best megas.
>>23304372http://www.edonnelly.com/loebs.html
I want to be able to SPEAK Latin and think in it. Hopefully duolingo will be of help
>>23304674>duolingo
>>23304674living in a latino ghetto would bring you closer to speaking latin more than fucking duolingo
>>23304876>>23304923It helps with gaining intuition and forming phrases fast
>>23302453What pronunciations are you learning them in respectively?
>>23302509Brandt's Introduction to Literary Chinese is old-fashioned but still good, and it gives the equivalents in Mandarin of the first however many passages, which should be helpful for those who are already familiar with it.
>>23305088no
>ὣς φάτο· Τηλέμαχος δὲ φίλωι ἐπεπείθετο ατρί>ατρίfound another little error in the Teubner of the Odysseybtw, it seems to this day it's not entirely clear how to precisely interpret the description of the palace of Odyssey and certain things like the ὀρσοθύρη , it got me confused too but looking it up and even checking the comments on Buckley's translation apparently it's not known exactly either, there's varied interpretationsI found things like pic but it doesn't help too much, it's supposedly a high hatch door or something
>>23306141also found this
>>23305088just read the Vulgate retard
>"Talis," inquiens, " mihi videtur, rex, vita hominum praesens in terris, ad comparationem eius quod nobis incertum est temporis, quale cum te residente ad coenam cum dueibus ac ministris tuis tempore brumali, accenso quidem foco in medio et calido effecto coenaculo, furentibus autem foris per omnia turbinibus hiemalium pluviarum vel nivium, adveniensque unus passerum domum citissime pervolaverit qui cum per unum ostium ingrediens, mox per aliud exierit. Ipso quidem tempore quo intus est, hiemis tempestate non tangitur, sed tamen parvissimo spatio serenitatis ad momentum excurso, mox de hieme in hiememregrediens, tuis oculis elabitur. Ita haec vita homi-num ad modicum apparet; quid autem sequatur, quidve praecesserit, prorsus ignoramus.
>>23306641placuit mihi
how did classic niggas like milton learn greek and latin?
>>23307547Latin got beaten into their heads at grammar school, and Greek got beaten into their heads at university
>>23307547>>23307576Back in Milton's days Latin was still also a spoken language in universities
how's Plutarch in difficulty compared to say Xenophon vs Thycidides?
Sanskrit Nalopakhyanam Chapters 1-2 annotated. Would appreciate critiques/corrections. Going to be away for the next week and not working on this.https://mega.nz/file/zocDnTLC#WtgAY4sWR2ureD-DskPCN2D8eqVQ76V1fn4dEooKXQ4
Anyone know a better place than z-lib to get "Chinese through Poetry" by Barnes? The one there is all fucked up
>>23308430If you're in North America you can find used copies around the $10 mark. Well worth it. Failing that we ought to put a Chinese mega together.
>>23308261More than Xenophon but nowhere near Thucydides. His Greek however is really quite different from normal Attic so you'll need to resort to a dictionary quite often
reddit got me confused they say there are no mental benefits to latin and the science is fallacious. but they say that doing the grammar would be the same thing as mathematics which does have benefits what do you say
>>23309276I say go back to plebbit, fag
>>23309280im going back sorry
>>23309276I learn languages because I want to use them
>>23309276Feeling passion and enjoyment are the only worthwhile benefits.
>>23308344I downloaded it. Might be a while before I get to it, though.
>>23307547>>23307621I was reading a Luther biography and apparently from the time they were like 5 or 6 they started going to school, which was exclusively for Latin, and only in Latin. Every time they got caught speaking German, they got beat with a stick. The worst student each day was selected, and he had to wear an ass cap and was called an "asinus". He then had to spy on the other students, because if he caught one speaking German or making mistakes, then that student would swap places with him.They were serious back then, and it got results.
>>23309676I would keep praying to not be a stupid self hating German until killed myself if I kept ending up with the hat.
>>23309676interesting tools of conditioning. but are they used to enlighten, or to occult? got the name of the Luther biography?>https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-dunce-cap-wasnt-always-so-stupid>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergonha>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not
>>23309986It's called Here I Stand. There are probably better ones but I got it for free so w.e
>>23309676I was reading John Muir's "the story of my boyhood and youth" and he talks about how the teacher would randomly call on students and force them to recite latin grammar rules, or a verb synopsis, or explain a concept, or whatever, and if they got it wrong then they were hit with the paddle. >We had to get three lessons every day in Latin, three in French, and as many in English, besides spelling, history, arithmetic, and geography. Word lessons in particular, the wouldst-couldst-shouldst-have-loved kind, were kept up, with much warlike thrashing, until I had committed the whole of the French, Latin, and English grammars to memory, and in connection with reading-lessons we were called on to recite parts of them with the rules over and over again, as if all the regular and irregular incomprehensible verb stuff was poetry... I can’t conceive of anything that would now enable me to concentrate my attention more fully than when I was a mere stripling boy, and it was all done by whipping,–thrashing in general.>Old-fashioned Scotch teachers spent no time in seeking short roads to knowledge, or in trying any of the new-fangled psychological methods so much in vogue nowadays. There was nothing said about making the seats easy or the lessons easy. We were simply driven pointblank against our books like soldiers against the enemy, and sternly ordered, “Up and at’em. Commit your lessons to memory!” If we failed in any part, however slight, we were whipped; for the grand, simple, all-sufficing Scotch discovery had been made that there was a close connection between the skin and the memory, and that irritating the skin excited the memory to any required degree.
>>23308430The author used to host free downloads of the book on his website, but removed them after the book was published on Amazon, and the archived links to the downloads are dead unfortunately.
>>23309276Ignore reddit, if you want to learn Latin then learn it because you want to do so.
Am I ever going to use this sort of sentences?
>>23311121
>>23311121I don't even remember the last time I read paterfamilias itself tbqh, maybe I'm reading the wrong stuff
>>23311121>>23311126The point of duolingo is to teach you an intuitive understanding of the grammar and a very basic vocabulary. It's not there to teach you "phrases you're going to use".
>>23309676>Every time they got caught speaking German, they got beat with a stick. The worst student each day was selected, and he had to wear an ass cap and was called an "asinus". He then had to spy on the other students, because if he caught one speaking German or making mistakes, then that student would swap places with him.This is how the English killed the Welsh language. If a teacher heard a student speaking Welsh they would be given a stick. Whoever was holding the stick at the end of the day got beat with it. So kids would eavesdrop on anyone whispering in Welsh and snitch on each other and try to get rid of it like a hot potato.
>>23309276Learning any language has cognitive benefits, Latin isn't known to be particularly special in that regard.
perlegitne vestrum aliquis Ovidii Metamorphoses? placueruntne vobis? Sallusti Crispi cum legam quae extant omnia iam mihi censeo tempus adesse Ovidii verba scrutare
>>23312896One of the greatest books ever written, absolutely you should read it. It has most likely had a greater influence on literature than everything except the Bible and maybe Homer
>>23312896Legens Sallustii nunc, sed non intelligo quod dicant multi esse difficile, putare esse facile, Ciceroni facilissumum. Petronius et quoque bonus discendo, et iocabundus maxime!
>>23312920unreadablewhat are you even trying to say
>>23312930Mea culpa, necesse legere magis
>>23312970conjugate
>>23312970>Mea culpa, necesse legere magisnah you're fine.
>Spaniards got "yo onions" from "ego sum"
>>23312976>>23313008Who’e jewing who here?
>>23312916esto hercle, pergam iam quaestum Teubnerianam apud ora piratica interretialia>>23312920meamet sententia quoque non dicerem Sallustium nimis difficile lectu esse, sane difficilius e.g Caesare, Nepote, etc... tamen a nonnullis accepi sententiam Sallustium bonum scriptorem esse quibus in animo esset Taciti scripta facilius penetrare quae constat saepe difficillima tironibus habitaverum ut dicam tamen orationem Lepidi cos. legens aliquot mihi nonnulla fuere aspera lectu
>>23303119Can you release the template?
>>23313346There is really nothing to release. 12pt font on top, horizontal bar in the middle, 10pt font in two columns below. I am sure there's a better way to do this but I'm not savvy enough to bother.
>>23313025lmao
>>23312896>MetamorphosesI tried, but gave up after struggling through a few hundred lines. It will be a long fucking time before I can appreciate poetry.
>>23313504tried with Virgil first? that's probably the way in for most, it was for me at least
For anons who are learning 文言 these may be valuable tools:https://zi.toolshttps://downloads.freemdict.com/uploads/manjushri/分流/王力全集%28全25卷%29/王力全集25.王力古汉语字典.pdf
>>23314051I haven't put serious effort into it yet, but the Aeneid doesn't seem any easier to me.
>>23314349I remember the beginning being tough too but it gets better, first book took a while to scan line by line and read(and most importantly understand), then it slowly got easier, by the fourth book I already knew the meter by heart and was reading much faster
>>23314776This may be a dumb question, but what was your process like? With prose, I can just read straight through, look up unfamiliar words, and occasionally stop to analyze some tricky grammar. With poetry, I can look up every word and still have no idea what the line means.
>>23314786first I would scan the meter while trying to broadly get the sense of the phrase: I think the meter is important to appreciate the poetry and not get discouraged, as if reading some abstruse alchemical tractatus to decipherthen, try to divide it into morsels, the punctuation certainly is there to help you, then at the end of the day you gotta grind for meaning, sometimes when I got truly stuck I would check some modern translation to unlock at least some partgenerally I also divided each book in sections of how many lines I felt confident with, initially maybe 100-200 lines per day max, then slowly more and more, then I'd re-read that section the next day, then after the whole book was done, I would re-read it again as a whole before going to the next, that I think helps cement certain repetitive elements of the author too
>>23314802>I think the meter is important to appreciate the poetry and not get discouraged, as if reading some abstruse alchemical tractatus to decipherI can apply the rules and identify longs and shorts and figure out dactyls and spondees. But this does not help me understand or appreciate much of anything. It all feels very abstract and discouraging.
>>23315045Meter determines the rhythm and occasionally helps with discerning ablatives and such.It sounds like you're trying to do too much at once. Scan the meter, try to read aloud or in your head, then go through and read for comprehension. At first it will be slow. Take it only a few lines at a time.Ovid's word order takes some getting used to and he uses a lot of unfamiliar vocabulary. Do not let yourself be discouraged. Take it slow and steady. It is important to keep at it and not give up. it will get cmoother.pic related, try this method for studying.
>>23313025Strictly speaking, it's only the "so" part that comes from "sum".
>>23315286You should note that the method prescribed only works for very high IQ students.
>>23315286I do this and it works very well for Plato since it's typically only a few words/OCT page that I don't know, or the occasional idiom. Good to keep a separate sheet of paper for general vocab too, just things you need to memorize.
wtf this seems pretty big https://www.heritagedaily.com/2024/04/carbonised-herculaneum-papyrus-reveals-burial-place-of-plato/151747
/lit/, please continue this sentence.Ἄργος ἄειδε, ϑεά, πολυδίψιον, ἔνϑεν ἄνακτες ...
>>23317462διψῶντες ἀλλήλων...
>>23317432>Plato was a slaveuhh...Platonistbros? how we feeling about this?
>>23317770That was already something said about him before, via Diogenes Laërtius. What's more surprising is that, apparently, Philodemus is claiming it to have happened either earlier, or Plato was enslaved twice, but until they publish the text, it's hard to tell why they're pinning it down to either 404 or 399.
>23289193Kek. Bonus. Bonus est.
For potential homeric bards, I have come to share that an aspired vowel count as both consonant + vowel. For a while I was stuck trying to determine why the third foot of this line would be valid. Turns out I made the connection from the rule including "rho" as a double consonant, similar to Ψ (psei), Ζ (zdeta) and Ξ (khsei). The rules provided from the materials I have are not specific about single aspired vowel at all.
>>23317906mmh, that could be the case if it were to happen regularly I guess, but in this specific case wouldn't metric licence suffice? in particular, the omicron in -νον counted as long, this kind of stuff does happen
>>23317906Isn't it just that the -on is before the caesura?
>>23317940>metric licenceI can't say with confidence if Homer would do that, I have yet to sufficiently read him, I have been scanning the first 20 lines of the fifth chapter of the Odyssey and the meter has been consistent, up until the 19th line that is which is where the screenshot comes from. As for the omicron in -νον, or its syllable followed by the aspired vowel, does not have some kind of scan flexibility, only a syllable with a short vowel followed by a mute (κ, π, τ, χ, φ, θ) with a liquid (λ, μ, ν, ρ) can have this special treatment, the first syllable of "τέκνον" may be counted either long or short. >>23317972the rules do not mention anything about the caesura having an effect on the length of a syllable as far as I am aware of
>>23318067It is because of the caesura. Or simply, there is a pause after -on, you even have it indicated by punctuation.Check https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/monro/short-syllables-ending-consonant
>>23318067well I've read all of Homer and Hesiod and although I don't remember all cases it is something that happens, though in this case I actually think >>23317972 is right and it's more about caesura heresome that come to mind are ἀθανάτοισιν and ἀπονέεσθαι where the first α gets lenghtened as well as ἔδεισεν where the first ε is counted as long>Ὣς ἔφατ’, ἔδεισεν δ’ ὁ γέρων καὶ ἐπείθετο μύθῳ>Ὣς ἔφατ’, ἔδεισεν δ’ Ἑλένη Διὸς ἐκγεγαυῖα
>>23318124>>23318134what a pain, why can't people include everything in one material ? Relying on third party source again and people wonder why we pirate textbooks
>>23318124>>23318134anyway, thank you for your time
αἱ κτήσεις τῆς ἀρετῆς μόναι βέβαιαί εἰσιν.possessiōnēs virtūtis sōlæ certæ sunt. the only things we certainly possess are those of virtue
>>23318298omnia mea mecum sunt
>>23317462Τρωσὶ μαχέσσασθαι μέλλον Πριάμοιό τε παισίν...
bump
>>23317906I don't get what's confusing about the third line. The rule is that the first syllable of the foot is always long.
>>23320037following the standard rules of prosody without accounting for things like the caesura one would have to divide the syllables into ν ο - ν ὁ, hence the first syllable not fitting the pattern, but accounting for the caesura, one considers νον as a long and starts again with short ὁ
>*basiat vos*
>>23321366Baseadus
damn I'm almost finished with the Odyssey and with that Homer and Hesiod, I will take a break from poetry and read some Plutarch but then what should be next in line as far as quintessential Greek poetry? I mean I will probably read the Homeric hymns too but that's a pretty short read
>>23322190Pindar
>>23322190Greek Anthology and lyric fragments
>>23322190Alcaeus and Sappho are pretty good places to start with lyric poetry. Definitely do not jump straight into Pindar. Also read Bacchae.
>>23322190read Nonnos' Dionysiaca so I have someone to talk about it with. No one has ever read it.
>>23323910>20,426 lineswew lad
>>23323910read his Metabole of John. I've been reading it and it's way too fucking obscure.
>>23294698>CeltesI see he wanted Celtic orthography for the Greek.
4 years of HS latin and a fair amount of independent study and i still cant read...the readers all feel way too easy, but whenever i jump into a latin text im immediately filtered even with a dictionary. do you just accept that some sentences you wont know the syntax or grammar of and try to infer whats being spoken? the vulgate is better, but it uses many words i have to look up. wtf do i do? learn grammar, more words, read more?
>>23324853Maybe try a famous work (Bible works for this ofc) that has lots of commentary/notes to explain weird grammar, idioms and conventions?
>>23324853what have you (tried to) read so far? even Caesar initially felt like a mountain, it's just how it is, you need to grind and then very importantly re-read, new words don't stick as easily if you just read their meaning in a dictionary once and isolated from context and then move on, seeing the word again in context and while reading fluently helps, break down your work into morsels if push comes to shove
>>23324864this is a good idea, thanks. im realizing maybe a book on morphology or grammar would be a little more helpful than i previously thought
>>23324872ive tried to read de bello gallico, vergil, the vulgate, and quite a few 'easier' texts with immemorable authors. tried to read vitruvius too but got bored of the text itself. i never reread though. i probably only got ~20 pages into caesar since i read so slowly and thus abandoned it. rereading sounds promising though.
>>23324914well I suggest the morsel approach, wikisource has Caesar divided into these little bits, I remember years ago when I started I tried to do around 5-10 of these per day(depending on the difficulty, speeches generally are a bit harder), but you could go even lower, you try to read it or even translate phrase by phrase, then once you are done with each chapter, you re-read it a few times until it sounds natural, then move on, then after you reach a certain threshold e.g 10-20-whatever, or maybe the whole book, you re-read it again before moving to the nextif you get stuck, don't be afraid to look up a translation in parallel, as long as you don't get lazy and overdo it
>>23324853This is just the reality of learning any language honestlyAlso you can become comfortable with the style and vocabulary of one author but you can be made to feel like you barely know the language anymore when you decide to read another author The key is to make your dictionary look ups as fast as possibleIf you use a digital dictionary your look ups can take 1-2 secondsIf you use a physical dictionary your look ups can take 5+ secondsThat might not seem like much but when you're doing 10000 look ups it can add up
>>23325101Btw don't sweat it if you encounter things that you don't understandThe most important thing is to get as much input as possibleSometimes looking at a translation can give us clues
>>23325101Really true imo. Speaking of, are there equivalents to Perseus/ctext for other classical languages (or even just other languages in general)? Tools like that are the only thing that cancel out my laziness enough for me to make any progress at all.
>>23325032I’ve read Caesar so many times, that opening paragraph makes perfect sense to me and I feel almost fluent. I’ve still got a notebook somewhere where I hand wrote every line and annotated everything.But it’s just memory and I remain a sub-literate troglodyte when reading anyone else. ‘I can understand this text because I already understand it’ is unsatisfying.
>>23324853Honestly maybe read some Plautus. There are some differences from classical, but it's usually quite easy to read and, perhaps most importantly, it's usually quite funny.
>scio hoc a te factum estI know this was done by you >scio hoc a te factum esse I know THAT this was done by you
>>23326622uhm pretty sure the first is grammatically wrong
>>23326622First one is wrong. Indirect speech takes infinitives.
>Άρχισα να μαθαίνω τα νέα ελληνικά προτού να αρχίσω τα αρχαία ελληνικά, και τώρα πρέπει να κάνω τα δύο
>>23288574What books do you recommend to learn Middle English? I eventually want to read Arthurian legends
>>23327182I don't get the "start with Modern Greek" meme. Literally none of the great Greek scholars of the past knew modern Greek.
The more modern Greek I read the more it becomes clear that MG is just ebonicsνα = finnaπου ειναι = where beκ.τ.λ
>>23327739> I don't get the "start with Modern Greek" memeAnd the only benefit would be to talk to modern Greeks, a detestable activity to be avoided at all costs
>>23327782I think Greeks are welcoming and pleasant to talk to, actually. They always greet you with a smile, are talkative, and the women look healthier and more beautiful than in my native France.I stayed there for a couple months, and once I was done visiting all the ruins I could, I went to each of the Cycladic Islands by ferry, and it was probably the best vacation of my life. Greeks being so friendly certainly contributed.
>>23326648>>23327124Why is it wrong I don't see why it's wrong
>>23327900What's your IQ? Do you genuinely think like this? Do you genuinely think "Greeks" are genetically nice and pleasant because you came across a few nice ones out of millions? This is your brain on nationalism and racial stereotyping. It's 2024, time to move on.
>>23328420Of course I don't, but how can you fault me for using my personal experience as a counterargument to yours?
>>23328414scio needs an infinitive phrase, or at best maybe in piggy Latin you add a quod=that but that ain't proper idiomatic classical
>>23328427factum esse is the perfect passive infinitive which changes the second one into indirect speech...is this different from an "infinitive phrase"?
>>23328444no the second with factum esse is indeed correct, it's the first which is wrong due to the indicative mood
>>23328457Plz spell out why >scio hoc a te factum estIs wrong. Am retard.
>>23328464>hoc a te factum estthis is in the indicative, by itself it means "this has been done by you" but with verbs like scio expressing knowledge or opinion you need to transform this phrase in the infinite, this means the subject goes in the accusative and the verb goes in the infinite; the subject is hoc so it stays the same, but you need factum est in the appropriate infinite, which indeed is factum esseIulius: Marcus dixit "lupus vidi in vallibus"Gaius: scio Marcum lupum in vallibus vidisse
>>23328478ah shit *lupum vidi in vallibus
>>23328478Huh, so you're saying it's *necessary* for that class of verbs to be used as indirect speech? With a verb like scio, you can't "know" Marcus saw a wolf, you *have* to "know THAT" Marcus saw a wolf??I thought it was optional and you could use them like any other verb. >>23326622The first example uses it normally without "THAT", the second example uses it in indirect speech, indicated by the addition of English "THAT" You're saying that because scio is in this special class of verbs, the first example is something that can't or shouldn't be done?
>>23328464Languages are arbitrary, anon. Latin main clauses have one or several verbs that depend on the nominative subject and are conjugated, and indirect statements in subordinate clauses are in accusativus cum infinitivo. Some simple examples from Bello Gallico:>At Cotta, qui cogitasset haec posse in itinere accidere [...] (5.33)At [nom. subj.], qui [main verb] [acc. subj.] [inf. verb 1] in itinere [inf. verb 2]>Totius Galliae sese potiri posse sperant. (1.3)[gen. obj.] [acc. subj.] [inf. verb 1] [inf. verb 2] [main verb] (nom. subj. implied)
>>23328508yes, for verbs like scio, censeo, puto, reor, etc... and many others the thing that is known, thought, etc... must go in the accusative, that means an entire phrase too, you'll find in actual literature even very long passages all in the infinitive form because some verb like those introduced it way back>Scio fuisse et honestius moriendi tempus et utilius; Cicerothings change in the case of indirect questions, i.e nescio(= non scio) quid sit
>>23328531How about the title from Wheelock here saying verbs that MAY introduce? So in certain situations it isn't necessary for them to take an infinitive?
>>23328554https://dcc.dickinson.edu/grammar/latin/subordinate-clauses-indirect-discourseThis explains it pretty well.
>>23328554because they may take a simple object, the indirect statement is needed if the object they take is an entire phrase that would normally go in the indicativescribam tibi multa(no infinitive), quibus docebo te artem illam(no infinitive), quam plerique aiunt mortalibus a dis emolumento donatam(infinitive phrase)
>>23328420>current yearfag
>>23328554There is one archaic exception to this. In old Latin (I know for sure in Plautus), sometimes the construction is replaced with a subjunctive. You will not see this in classical authors though.
Ἐπαμεινώνδας ἄτεκνος ἀποφνήσκωνἔλεγε τοῖς φίλοις, "Δύο θυγατέρας ἀπέλιπον, τήν τε περὶ Λεύκτραννίκην καὶ περὶ Μαντίνειαν." Epaimeinōndas sine fīliīs moriēnsdīcēbat amīcīs, "duās fīliāsrelīquī, eam Leuctrīsvictōriam et alteram Mantinēae."Epameinondas, as he was dying childless,said to his friends, "Two daughtershave I left behind, the victory in Leuctraand the other in Mantinea."
此帖已矣。無人寫論。
Do you like reading the vulgate? Does it have spiritual relevance to you?
>>23330427>Do you like reading the vulgate? Yes. It's good practice, usually interesting reading, and lets me feel like I actually understand Latin.>Does it have spiritual relevance to you?No, I'm not religious.
I'm sure some will think this is sort of a stupid question, but how were Greek dictionaries made? How did these 18th and 19th century scholars figure out what all these random Homeric, Sapphic, etc. hapax legomena meant? How did they accurately catalogue all the different shades of a word's meaning? I've just been thinking about how Greek knowledge (at least until you get REALLY good) is kind of circular: a word means X because the ditionary said it means X. And maybe they based a definition off a scholia, but how did they come to read that scholia in the first place? Only with a dictionary. Same for any dead language really.
>>23330612scholars in Byzantium had been working on that for hundreds of years before the Renaissance started in western Europe (specifically Italy in the 1400s; took everyone else a century to catch up)
>>23330612Modern dictionaries are essentially the fruit of incredibly long and tedious labour by men of unimagninable erudition by today's standards like the Estiennes. Before they existed or were widely available you simply had to go on a quest to find the word you were looking for somewhere else, hopefully with a gloss explaining its meaning. During and after the Renaissance however people also read more and more eclectically than us, including authors we generally ignore like the Bizantines who, after about the 10th century, had made using rare and difficult words somewhat of a fashion. For authors such as Homer you could also rely on Bizantine commentaries like that by Eustace of Thessalonica.
>>23327739The intended logic is probably that knowing a related language helps and it's easier to acquire spoken fluency in Modern Greek than Ancient.
>>23328420NTA but is culture not a thing?
According to studies learning both Esperanto and French was faster than learning only French, would Esperanto make learning Latin faster?
>>23331106If you want to learn Latin, learn Latin. Don't overcomplicate things.
>>23330747It's interesting that texts used to be published with scholia and commentaries. I think this practice should definitely come back.
>>23331106Learning Latin makes everything faster because you'll understand grammar. Learn Esperanto if you want to learn Esperanto, but don't try to metagame language learning processes that are gonna take you multiple years realistically as it is. You risk burnout. Some rare exceptions exist, like learning Icelandic before learning other Scandinavian languages I guess. But in general I'd say just learn Latin. I bet you the boost people got from going from Esperanto to French is that it has simplified abstractified grammar and syntax, and thus they were forced to learn to "see" these, and then took that to French and no longer saw it as a mushy pile of vague shit, which is how most people learn a modern living language. But in Latin, you are going to be learning the structures from day one, and in the long run you'll be able to do the same as the Esperanto learners but 10x more powerfully by taking that knowledge to other languages subsequently.
>>23331106Yes, so said Reginald Foster, famous Esperanto speaker.
>>23331111But it looks promising. Students who studied Esperanto for 2 years eventually overcame the students who didn't in learning another language even though the other students had 2 years head start. Plus Esperanto's lexicon shares 80% of Latin's root, so it should be even better for it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paderborn_method
>>23331128Just learn Greek alongside Latin, like they used to do. Even French, Italian, Spanish instead lmfao. Why the fuck would you learn Esperanto?
>>23331132And if you think Greek is too hard, just learn New Testament Greek and ignore Attic. It's about as hard as Spanish.
I studied Brazilian favela Portuguese for 10 years then opened Cicero and I could read him fluently.
>>23331139What does Cicero say about the right amount of bunda?
>>23331106Probably, but learn the language you actually want to learn. If you want to learn Esperanto, learn Esperanto. If you want to learn Latin, learn Latin. (Also a lot of that is just the effects of already knowing a second language and knowing how to learn one, which Esperanto is an especially good choice for because it's so easy to learn; if you already know a second language, a lot of the advantage most likely disappears.)
>>23331132There are good reasons to learn Esperanto (literature, community, a network of speakers who are willing to host other speakers when they travel) but if you want to learn Latin you should just learn Latin.
>>23331141Soli Romani bundam recte fruuntur, quia barbari septentrionales omnino non fruuntur et meridionales barbari nimium fruuntur. Aristoteles vocavit hunc medium aureum
>>23331128why not just learn another romance language? Assuming they speak English, learning French along with Latin would probably be the best course.Esperanto seems like a total meme language, while one like French has a plethora of resources to draw from.
Διογένης ὁ φιλόσοφος ἰδων μειράκιον περισσῶς καλλωπιζόμενον, εἶπεν, "Εἰμὲν πρὸς ἄνδρας, ἀτυχεῖς δὲ προς γυναῖκας, ἀδικεῖς."Diogenēs philosophus vidēns juvenculumnimis ornātum, dīxit, "Sīequidem marītīs, scelestus; sī vērōuxōribus, injustus." Diogenes the philosopher, upon seeing a young manexcessively dressed, said to him, "if you are dressed this wayfor the husbands, you are accursed; if for their wives, unjust."
>>23331515ἆρ' ἀυτὸς γέγραφας τάδε; ἔγωγε μᾶλλον γράψαιμ' ἄν ὡδί· «Εἰ μὲν ἀνδρῶν ἕνεκα, ἀτυχεῖς, γυναικῶν δέ, ἀδικεῖς»
>>23331900ἀληθῆ λέγεις, ὦ βάτραχε λόγιε· ἐγὼ γὰρ κακῶς ἔγραψα τὴν χρείαν.
Anyone have any information on how specifically people studied the classics in the 1700s and 1800s? At places like Eton.
>>23331106That sounds like Esperanto propaganda, which is usually bullshit.Esperantists are truly desperate to make people learn their cultureless speech. Don't fall for it anon.
>>23331515Doesn't equidem mean "I"?>Sī equidem marītīs, scelestusI understood it as "if I were... etc."
>>23332008fuck up, get beat
>>23331118They still are. SeeOxford RedsCambridge Classical Texts and CommentariesCambridge Greek and Latin Classics Bristol Classical PressDickinson College ComentariesBryn Mawr CommentariesHarvard has a ton as well though not sure if they are in a particular line.There are several other unis that offer various commentated editions. University of Oklahoma Norman for example.I have three different commentaries of Catullus, Oxford, Harvard and Macmillan.interesting to compare them.
>>23332429I would prefer to learn Tocharian B than Esperanto by a lot. That's a people that I could learn about, and understand just a little more of their ways.
>>23332637But then you would miss out on speaking garbled pidgin with troons and weirdos who already speak other languages better
>>23332437more like "in truth" or "indeed", and gets coupled with vero to create a contrast in truth...but....>Quippe cum hi, ut equidem dico, veri nihil dixerint; a me vero vos vera omnia audituri sitis
>>23332531I mean scholia in the manuscripts written by the ancients themselves, not modern commentary
>>23331121>Some rare exceptions exist, like learning Icelandic before learning other Scandinavian languages I guess.?
>>23333979NTA but as I understand it Icelandic is effectively fossilized Old Norse. Icelanders have a very easy time learning any of the other Nordic languages, which is not always the case for the other Nordic nationalities any which way.
>>23333982>Icelandic is effectively fossilized Old Norseabsolutely not>Icelanders have a very easy time learning any of the other Nordic languages, which is not always the case for the other Nordic nationalities any which way.?
>Many verbs compounded with ad, ante, con, in, inter, ob, post, prae, prō, sub, super, and some with circum, use the Dative of the Indirect Object.Ok, but why? What led the Roman mind to associate verbs compounded with prepositions that don't govern the dative with the dative?
>>23334172>absolutely notHe's right, the quirks are minor.
>>23334761>He's rightnot at all
>>23334172>absolutely notIcelandic is mutually intelligible with Old Norse and has undergone far less morphological and phonological change since it was just Old Norse, so while it's incorrect to say that Icelandic is "fossilized" Old Norse, you are still incorrect.
>>23334834>Icelandic is mutually intelligible with Old Norseno>far less morphological and phonological change since it was just Old Norse?????Icelandic phonology is FUBAR. What are you even on about?
>>23334748never noticed this tbqh
>>23333982Icelanders today can read Old Norse texts with modernised spellings with a bit of effort but no Icelandic person today is going to talk or write in that wayIcelandic is pronounced in an extremely different way and there are also a lot of changes in the writing system For example, 'at' is written as að and the nominative masculine singular ending, r is written as ur like hesturFurthermore when I was searching words up on the internet I noticed that a lot of words changed their meanings between Old Norse and IcelandicSome would gain meanings, some would restrict meaningsThe idiom has changed a lot as wellBtw there was a period of time when Icelanders decided to make their language more archaic, I think in the early modern period
>>23335418Oh yeahI haven't looked into it too much but I'm pretty sure verb declension has changed a bit in terms of the endings
>>23335398Obsequor is a pretty common example.
>>23288581Already speak and read high-intermediate Mando, but I’m now re-learning all the characters in Middle Chinese pronunciation to read Tang poetry and general CC prose too. It’s not a huge payoff for most so I don’t encourage it but I like the process. Wiktionary has the major reconstructions for almost any character you may encounter.
>>23334748The praepositione means you will relate two things. So most of those verbs can take an accusative besides the dative:>praeponere aliquid alicui
>>23333616The ancients for the most part did not write scholia, medievals did.Modern commentators constantly reference old scholia, you would know if you read them.If you want say Servius' commentary on the Aeneid it is easily found with a few mouse clicks. You can even find editions with his commentary as footnotes to the text.
>>23334748See Woodcock's New Latin Syntax section 62, in fact the whole chapter on the Dative is illuminating. Essentially the dative implies the person/thing for whom the action occurs.
>>23331106Learning any language will make learning further ones easierOf course it's just quicker to learn your target language than go do some dumb memeshit. You don't learn Italian to start learning Latin. You just learn Latin, like everyone for the past 1000 years has been doing
>>23336162Very interesting, thanks.
>>23292716No, the term "Classical languages" by default refers primarily to Latin and Greek in the West. Just because a dead language has stages that can be categorised as "classical" in relation to its other stages does not make said language a Classical language.
>feeling pretty confident in my grammar and vocab>try to read Suetonius>immediately feel like an idiotAm I retarded or is he genuinely a very difficult writer? I can get through Ovid with some trouble but this is way harder.
>>23336814>SuetoniusHe's really difficult
*sips energy drink*, yup, it's Plutarchin' time
>>23337422Please link to that bilingual edition bro
>>23337618https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k28223h.r=.langFRhttps://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k28224v.r=.langFR
NOVVM>>23337834>>23337834>>23337834
>>23336830ok good, I was really nervous there
