Is there such a thing as intellectual or even literary smut?Most people enjoy a bit of smut, but it occurs to me how much people around me just read absolute trash. There's the general trend now where "book girls" are basically reading porn all day between "yound adult" novels that are written like grating teenage girls, bad fantasy settings, and then of course there's fanfiction/AO3, God help us. But there has to be better shit out there, and it's hilariously buried under tens of thousands of books from the last ten years with awful covers, and it's not like that's a new trend.All I can think of is Venus in Furs (Ostensibly), some of the letters by Joyce (Also ostensibly), and something like A Feast Unknown that actually has interesting plot and point to it while being very over the top and intentionally horny. It's a surprise to me it's not a more well-categorized or popular genre/idea.
>>23359928What is AO3?
I recall maybe twenty years ago walking through waterstones and casually grabbing a book off the table I was passing flicking it open and reading a paragraph that turned out to be a very detailed description of a blowjob told from a femmale perspective.Wasn't entirely sure what to make of it at the time.
>>23359928I know of de Sade's Justine and Bataille's Story of the Eye. Haven't read either of them though.
>>23359928OK, Coomer
>>23359928ASKING THIS QUESTION, DENOTES, IN ITSELF, THAT ONE IS NOT A «READER».
>>23359944>JustineI can't believe I forgot that as an example, that's true. Less to my taste bur fair point. Wasn't de Sade a serial killer or something, or was that rumors of his enemies and/or me mixing up weird Frenchmen?>Story of the EyeInteresting. Sounds odd but very interesting, will give it a read. Oddly, the synopsis reminds me a lot of a movie I saw with Robert Pattinson, kek.It is interesting to me how most of the examples I can think of involve sadomasochism strongly. I wonder why that's what more literary authors trend towards when discussing sex. I suppose power dynamics are more interesting to write and there's often an element of self-loathing, but it's interesting.>>23359945Sure, fair enough, but like in a tasteful way. It kills me how much poorly written smut there is just dominating the best sellers lists for the past decade or so. Not that that should indicate much, but shit it's awful.>>23359968AND WHAT WOULD BE YOUR SUGGESTION OF SOMETHING TO READ, THEN? WHAT BELIES THAT TO YOU?>>23359936Archive of our own, surprised you hadn't heard of it>>23359938That's actually a hilarious fucking story anon, kek. But that's the thing, it's out there and not all Fabio books. I wouldn't know what to make of that in passing either.
>>23359928There's this, which gets posted once every so often, but the most I've gotten from archive hunting is someone posted this here and then promptly fucked off. Anons said the author suicided but I haven't found any proof.
>>23360386Funnily enough, that's what made me start thinking of this. I saw that in a thread a few days ago or a week, and it struck me as beautiful prose while being comfortably erotic. It was unusual. And that came a few weeks after reading A Feast Unknown, which was much more about hilariously serious ridiculous murderboners and borderline pulp-parody-love-letter, but the sex in that too was interesting in the context of an actual well-written story that wasn't just about a rich guy and a wallflower. Those two specifically have made me wonder. There's nothing new under the sun.
>>23359928Susurrus on Mars has some poetic descriptions and a heavy Joyce influence.
>>23360359>Wasn't de Sade a serial killer or something, or was that rumors of his enemies and/or me mixing up weird Frenchmen?That would be rumors and your confusion. He did commit sex crimes, but they were not nearly as degenerate or intense as one might imagine having read his work. >Yes, I am a libertine, I admit it: I have imagined everything of that kind which can be imagined, but I certainly have not done all that I have imagined, and I certainly never shall. I am a libertine, but I am neither a criminal nor a murderer.>>23359928Going back to the OP, I would argue that all of his work falls under "literary smut", especially "Philosophy in the Boudoir", which is an incestuous orgy interspersed with political sperging. I've definitely expanded my viewpoints while reading his works and he is much maligned - the effects of 200+ year old propaganda, perhaps. His work isn't earth-shattering, but he's certainly underrated and undercredited, having laid the way for many greats who came after him.
There are erotic short stories I've read that I thought had something interesting to say and were written by someone with some reasonable level of respect for craft.I've tried to write some. Some of them are a little too avant garde and some of them are a little too goofy. Here's one that I think is fun:https://www.literotica.com/s/regrets-re-wonder-womanProse poem
>>23360742Kek, that was actually sort of interesting anon. A lot more like what I'm thinking of than not, something that's not just about "what if these two characters graphically fucked" like most fanfiction. It has entertaining implications to it.>>23360428Good to know, looks very interesting, will put it on my reading list.>>23360565Good points, thanks for the clarification. I figured as much and actually recall that quote now, somehow K think I always combine him in my head with Bluebeard, but there's only so many Frenchman with truly historically lascivious reputations that rate. It definitely opens a door to a vector of thought and sexuality in those contexts that's probably underrated, I may give his work another pass despite some of my distaste for certain subjects.
>>23360359Oh, that, I know of the site but not the acronym.
>>23361294Well there's Gilles de Rais, the medieval pedo serial killer nobleman about whom Bataille also wrote.
>>23359928>fanfiction/AO3I'll have you know that my smut in AO3 is very well written, faggot.
>>23361485>Gilles de RaisThat was literally it. That's what I meant by Bluebeard, which is apparently contested looking it up, but lived in my memory for a while that way. French sex pests are numerous and combinative in my mind, which isn't correct but I don't exactly read about them a lot, kek.>>23361939Prove it, I was taken aback and quite enjoyed the other guy's Literotica bits suggested above, so if there's anything in that website worth a shit, spill.
>>23361485Interesting, I only knew about Huysmans and his La-Bas. Had no idea Bataille wrote about Gilles too. Might read them back-to-back to see how they complement each other.It's fucked how he fought side by side with Jeanne d'Arc. >>23362027>in my memoryNot just yours, it's a commonly held belief. Even wikipedia mentions it.
>>23359928Masturbation is for monkeys at the zoo.
Although non-fiction, "Confession sexuelle d'un anonyme russe", the diary from which Nabokov drew inspiration from Lolita. I'm not sure if English translation of it exists, though, but there is a Ukrainian one (incidentally, author was from Kyiv).
>>23360386>>23360420This is supposedly by the same guy, but weirdly the journal from the cover hasn't turned up in any searches I've done. It makes me wonder if this has just been an elaborate shill campaign.https://imgur.com/a/zELh6M0I've made an extra archive of it here:https://mega.nz/folder/PkFmzIpI#vAkPWfnVBEQuzwY25p2rlA
>>23359928Are you really so lazy you couldn't even bother to google that before askingHenry Miller Jean Genet Georges BattaileAnais Nin Octave Mirbeaujust off the top of my headPeter Sotos, if you're a menace to society Idk what's your standard for being smut, but there are plenty of ancient stories too, Ovid, Apuleius, etc
>>23362166>Huysmans and his La-BasJust added to my TBR, thank you.I'll throw out some of the writings of le Comte de Mirabeau as deserving of this thread
>>23359928The Story of OFanny Hill
>>23361294Glad to hear you liked it.https://www.literotica.com/authors/TatasForNow/works/storiesAt the risk of pushing my luck, now you can check out Something of a God or Let's All Go to the Diorama Arcade next. I feel like Dome Desert Castle is the weakest one.And I have some other stuff I'm working on, although I have been busy such that I don't feel like I can devote time to my side projects. Although it hasn't stopped me from posting in this thread apparently.
Op, I've got just the thing
>>23362290Titled 'Confessions of Victor X' in English
>>23359928Nabokov had some choice words on the matter:>While it is true that in ancient Europe, and well into the eighteenth century (obvious examples come from France), deliberate lewdness was not inconsistent with flashes of comedy, or vigorous satire, or even the verve of a fine poet in a wanton mood, it is also true that in modern times the term “pornography” connotes mediocrity, commercialism, and certain strict rules of narration. Obscenity must be mated with banality because every kind of aesthetic enjoyment has to be entirely replaced by simple sexual stimulation which demands the traditional word for direct action upon the patient. Old rigid rules must be followed by the pornographer in order to have his patient feel the same security of satisfaction as, for example, fans of detective stories feel—stories where, if you do not watch out, the real murderer may turn out to be, to the fan’s disgust, artistic originality (who for instance would want a detective story without a single dialogue in it?). Thus, in pornographic novels, action has to be limited to the copulation of clichés. Style, structure, imagery should never distract the reader from his tepid lust. The novel must consist of an alternation of sexual scenes. The passages in between must be reduced to sutures of sense, logical bridges of the simplest design, brief expositions and explanations, which the reader will probably skip but must know they exist in order not to feel cheated (a mentality stemming from the routine of “true” fairy tales in childhood). Moreover, the sexual scenes in the book must follow a crescendo line, with new variations, new combinations, new sexes, and a steady increase in the number of participants (in a Sade play they call the gardener in), and therefore the end of the book must be more replete with lewd lore than the first chapters.
>>23361294I came for it being high level SF and stayed for the tastefully poetic smut. Not an easy read but not an impossible one, mostly lighthearted wordplay and dense Scots cant and patter. His other books are plain fun.
smut is the opposite of intellectual.
>>23364294Oh, being clear anon, I already read all of it before you posted that. I wasn't 100% sure if it was just a rec or you wrote it, so I didn't say anything. I'd agree with those assessments; I did get a chuckle out of DDC and appreciated the implications/building of the dream world, but it was very simple and obviously comical. Something of a God was very interesting in buildup and possibly the most overtly fetishy; I could almost see it being apart of the same Wonder Woman story, somehow. I did like Diorama Arcade the most; it's the least erotic of the bunch, but it very much had an "old sci-fi story" feel to it, I liked the concepts of it and the questions in what was left unsaid about the world. You present a setting very well very quickly, so I appreciated that a lot.I know how it is to have creative pursuits dashed by life, but keep on. You've got another fan now, whatever that's worth, I'd like to read more when it exists.>>23364212Good suggestions. Read the Story of O years ago at the suggestion of a borderline friend, kek. But that's along the lines.>>23364392True; did find that looking around on the subject and started to read it. It's interesting, and its place in history is too, but it's not particularly explicit and entirely hinges on cuckoldry, so not necessarily my thing. Solid response, though.>>23362290>>23364453Very interesting for this thread but also in a literary sense, thanks anons.On the subject of Nabokov,>>23364496Very interesting read, thank you, anon. Not to just go "yeah, this", but yeah, that covers the frustration, and why I even made the thread. It seems odd to me that it's such a stagnant yet wide genre, and figured older material may break that mold and have much more interesting content by actually being fucking written somehow. Interesting he put that at such length, but he's right, especially on the structure notes.>>23365645Good to know, I like high-level SF and it sounds perfect. I'm not afraid of a hard read anyways, would be more interesting to work for it in a sense, kek. I'm not familiar with his other work but will look into it, thanks for the input.
>>23366624Well if you want to read my next short story you're going to have to create a literotica account and follow me on there, because it won't be possible for me to contact you to let you know when I finish it.
>>23366960>>23366624I'll also say that there's a famous story on literotica (long, not a short story) called The Preacher Man by hammingbyrd7 or something like that which is good.It's sort of more genre fiction than literary fiction, but it also feels like it has a point to it beyond pure entertainment.It's a sci-fi dystopia. The characteristics of the dystopia are rather original. It starts off not very sexual. There are power fantasy elements to it, as is common in online erotica. I like the arc of it.
>>23366975Also I skimmed through part of the beginning. But I still recommend it.
