>shatters your slave moralityIs there a more based collection of works than what Nietzsche brought to the table?
>>23540544Never
>>23540544I know I need to read Stoic works and the writings of Marx to fully get his critiques. Anything else I should read and contemplate beforehand so Nietzsche makes sense to me?
>>23540544He couldn't even shatter his own timidity and incelism, his philosophy is worthless edgelordism
>>23540544Hehehe probably not, almost everyone after has still been grappling with him. A sizeable number of those have mostly sought to put a spring on the hammer or use a dead-blow hammer or perhaps a rubber mallet instead.
>>23540588That's the best thing about it. It only diminishes the adherent. Everyone else goes on usual.
>>23540544Wagner shattered Nietzsche's so-called master morality. On hearing Parsifal for the first time, Nietzsche admitted in a letter to his sister that he doubted his own philosophy, and was tempted to the Christian answer of life. Why do you think Nietzsche hid from Wagner? Nietzsche was not strong enough to resist his influence.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s88hmJ_osjY>Great genius destroys minor talents.t. Wagner
>>23541059Blessed post, Wagneranon.
>>23540544All he did was coin some buzzphrase that midwits parrot but can't prove while they live in slavery to sin.
>>23540588>timidityWhat timidity?>incelismNietzsche was a volcel who either ignored women or exclusively pursued the most difficult to obtain types.
Oh let me call the discord homies and pretend that I won
Spengler surpassed Nietzscel
>>23540544I'm a big fan of Schopenhauer's brand of misogyny but otherwise he doesn't go far enough in his understanding of the will
>>23541059>was tempted to the Christian answer of lifeNietzsche liked Wagner, but no need to make shit up
>>23541059Wagner really does mog Nietzsche in every respect.
>>23540544Spengler dabbed all over him tho
1. Morality is a cope for the weak to feel imaginary power.2. The world is a well of delight for Chad, but for Chud all wells are poisoned.3. Suicide isn't even a way out. Like 4chan, you're here forever.
honestly whenever i read genealogy of morals i'm like how is this not banned?
>>23543381It's weird that leftists still try to claim it
>>23543376Retard.
>>23543017I just can't share Wagner's and (especially young) Nietzsche's extreme passion for art. Maybe the ironic detachment on the internet rotted my brain, but while I enjoy art Wagner's worship of art just seems naive to me.
>>23543511Then it's just a matter of you lacking the sensitivity/education to appreciate art. The younger you are the easier it is to develop it. Just see Nietzsche's reaction to art, the extreme absorption he describes in TBoT was characteristic of him his entire life, whether or not he subscribed to the Romantic view of art. Before you can judge art you must have that heightened appreciation of it.>What Hegel asserted concerning art-that it had lost its power to be the definite fashioner and preserver of the absolute-Nietzsche recognized to be the case with the "highest values," religion, morality, and philosophy: the lack of creative force and cohesion in grounding man's historical existence upon beings as a whole. Whereas for Hegel it was art-in contrast to religion, morality, and philosophy-that fell victim to nihilism and became a thing of the past, something nonactual, for Nietzsche art is to be pursued as the countermovement. In spite of Nietzsche's essential departure from Wagner, we see in this an outgrowth of the Wagnerian will to the "collective artwork." Whereas for Hegel art as a thing of the past became an object of the highest speculative knowledge, so that Hegel's aesthetics assumed the shape of a metaphysics of spirit, Nietzsche's meditation on art becomes a "physiology of art."- Heidegger
>>23541059Nihilism outlived the shallow spectacle of live orchestra.
>>23543685The Wagnerian orchestra will outlive nihilism.
>>23543702>youtube views for wagner crap: 100k tops>youtube views for nietzsche clickbait: millions
>>23543704The taste of the masses is of no concern to the elites.>All in the long run is done with; even Voltaire’s Tragedie could not hold on, and the thing capsized. What has Science not pinned its faith to, and not so very long ago, that to-day lies on the dust-heap? The contrary with works of Art; alter, transform your views and sciences as ye will – there still stands Shakespeare, there Goethe’s Faust, there the Beethoven Symphony, with undiminished power!
>>23543713>The taste of the masses is of no concern to th - ACK
>>23543719>appealing to the taste of the masses>appealing to the fear of deathNot exactly master morality is it.
>>23543719You don't understand, the power to kill you isn't *real* power.
>>23543726Justin please, get off 4chan, the food prices
>>23543376posting a lust provoking image on an almost exclusively male site = attempting to make men horny = you're a faggot
>>23543713Why did you post Wagner? He was an artist of the masses. This was why Nietzsche broke off from him. He noticed at Wagner's rehearsals that a large number of redneck retards were attending them.
>>23543376>chud>confusing idealogy with moralityLow iq.
>>23541059did Wagner posted here?wast Wagner berndt?und vith handsome selfie?oh my.
>>23540572Schopenhauer and Kant
>>23540544Average TRF of devout Catholic women?>4.5Average TFR of atheist women?>1.2Average Socialization of devout Catholic children?>0.8Average socialization of Atheist families?>0.5The future will be overwhelmingly religious
>>23543376
>>23546458Thanks bro
>>23544413Ironic, considering their fanbases nowdays.
>>23544455there are no well-turned-out chuds
>>23541270He couldn't even fuck a woman who was the biggest whore around.
>>23544413Kek, this was not the reason Nietzsche broke from Wagner. At the end of his life Nietzsche said both he and Wagner were above the understanding of the masses.
>>23546502Atheists multiply when Catholics put their kids in front of the TV/ipad. I saw it with my own eyes, religious generations that would give up any and all career advancements (commie Yugoslavia) so they can still go to church, and the next generation that is overwhelmingly progressive and atheist. And they're all progressive and atheist in the same way, that's the strange part.
>>23548562Generation Alpha, at least in my country, seems to be experiencing this in both directions at once. One half is getting to be really religious and conservative and the other is getting to be almost Stalinist. I can't help but see a civil war happening in the next 10-15 years with the young men of that generation kicking it off and that terrifies me
>>23541270Nietzsche died after contacting syphilis from sucking off a horse. He had no bitches, sired no champions, a complete evolutionary dead end.
>>23550452100% post source on that one. Too big of a claim not to
>>23548651Exactly, now that the right wing got direct access to kids brains there's now a bunch of nazis on the internet and woman haters. The Catholic and Orthodox church seemingly has presence on YouTube now, which is what I assume is feeding the hyper-religious online discourse.
>>23541059>On hearing Parsifal for the first time, Nietzsche admitted in a letter to his sister that he doubted his own philosophy, and was tempted to the Christian answer of lifeYou Christcucks just can't stop lying
>>23543012>>23551606And I quote:>I cannot think of it without feeling violently shaken, so elevated was I by it, so deeply moved. It was as if someone were speaking to me again, after many years, about the problems that disturb me — naturally not supplying the answers I would give, but the Christian answer, which after all has been the answer of stronger souls than the last two centuries of our era have produced. When listening to this music one lays Protestantism aside as a misunderstanding — and also, I will not deny it, other really good music, which I have at other times heard and loved, seems, as against this, a misunderstanding!
>>23544413You are a fucking moron, and probably take it up the ass on the dl
>>23547443The only girls he flirted with on record were Lou, who wasn't a whore but a very sought-after woman at the time, and Louise, who was married with kids when he met her.
>>23547636>>23552091Nietzsche wrote in a letter that he was appalled by the attendees at the Bayreuth festival. This was at the breaking point of their relationship.
>>23552096The attendees at the Bayreuth festival were from every royal family in Europe. Wagner wanted a cultural event, freed from commercial culture, but instead it just became the biggest commercial event in Europe for the upper classes. Nietzsche was disgusted by this, and he wrongly assumed that Wagner was happy with it. Wagner contented himself with the fact that at least the festival allowed him to perform his works to as close to perfection as was possible.
>>23552133There's a reason why Wagner attracted those people: his work carried with it the stench of the masses.
>>23552092>who wasn't a whore but a very sought-after woman at the time
Yawmeh is dead
>>23540572Heraclitus, Plato and potentially Wagner and Hegelthe Bible wouldn't go amiss>>23540588t. hasn't read him and is also a tranny>>23541059>>23552068Wagner and Parsifal are hardly "Christian" so Nietzsche's emotional reaction is completely meaningless.>>23541187nice strawman but sin isn't real and Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist or pro-atheism. low IQ take
>>23554205>Wagner and Parsifal are hardly "Christian"Parsifal was Christian to the core, I don't get how that's not painfully obvious. Wagner always had extremely Christian leanings even in his early days, since Tanhauser at least. Maybe not "Christian" in the Nietzschean sense, but Nietzsche's conception of Christianity is stupid.
>>23554233Wagner is merely a deist and every branch of Christianity would consider him heretical. Any attempt to claim him as anything other than "Gottgläubig" is grossly disingenuous and you know that you're lying. Wagner himself said "I do not believe in God; but I believe in godliness" and even Scruton As for Parsifal, employing simulacra of Christianity and elements of Buddhism isn't a promotion of Catholicism or anything that you're pretending it is. All the symbology of Christianity is abstracted, while the roots of the story itself are from the Germanic grail legend. Exploration of redemption is not exclusive to Christianity.
>>23540544Ralph Waldo Emerson, Gustave Flaubert, Henry David Thoreau.
>>23554396Wagner’s more of a Gnostic than a Deist from what I read about him stating this World may as well not be real in comparison of the outer-world or heaven. But I guess the German idealists are quasi-Gnostics.
>>23554741>Wagner’s more of a Gnostic than a Deistthe pedantry is pretty irrelevant, he obviously wasn't Catholic as the person above tried to pretend
>>23554766I never said that Wagner was Catholic, nor did I try to pretend he was. I've read what he's said about the Church, and Tanhauser itself snubs the pope. What I did say was that he had Christian leanings, even if the man himself was never a formal Christian. Simply calling him a deist is enormously reductive. The works (and his own writings) speak for themselves, and what they demonstrate is a profoundly Christian sense of the world, of life, though they may do away with the finer points of church dogma.
>>23555138he wasn't Christian in "any" sense, the idea of redemption and sacrifice wasn't invented by squabbling Jews and doesn't imply "Christian leanings" at all. You are backtracking because your ridiculous lie has been pointed out. You tried to imply that >>23541059 somehow, non-Christian Nietzsche was tempted to Christianity by non-Christian Wagner and non-Christian Parsifal, with shitty leading questions."Simply calling him a deist is enormously reductive" - nah, you're just coping now. he fits ever definition of Gottgläubig and even Roger Scruton thinks he is a deist of sorts. >The works (and his own writings) speak for themselvesyes, they do.>and what they demonstrate is a profoundly Christian sense of the worldno. it isn't.unless you're about to make the low IQ argument that subhuman Jews invented everything ranging from beauty, to the sublime, art and redemption. anyone attempting to argue what you are is a disingenuous Christian liar trying to claim more authentic, blatantly European Gesamtkunstwerk for a Jewish religion. it's transparent and pathetic.Der Ring des Nibelungen is blatantly Christian, it even incorporates common Christian elements like the Nibelungenlied and the Götterdämmerung. you're so right.
>>23540544I will never cease to be amused at how /lit/ Buddhists praise Nietzsche while subscribing to the same slave morality that he attacks
>>23555181lol. It's always the Nietzsche fans who are the first to break down and start raging. Really makes you think.
>>23555281>no argument, just bulverismit's always liars who have no argument. really makes you think. you belong on twitter
>>23555397>it is simply not possible to argue along moral lines and that one's only response can be a shocked silence.
Wish I haven't found this thread, I was really getting into Nietzsche's works and found myself enraptured with his vitalism and bold rejection of petty moralities of modern era that inhibit one's self-realization - I never bothered to read much about the man himself and some of the claims made ITT sounded slanderous at best but it made it look up his life and it does appear he died a virgin and was humiliated multiple times by his oneitis rejecting his advances..I cannot reconcile Nietzsche the writer so splendidly describing an unbothered winner and conqueror standing a giant amidst crowds of bugmen - with Nietzsche the man, whom I now imagine groveling at the feet of some socialite strumpet for a crumb of pussy and being waved off. I'm at a loss brehs, the ideals still resonate with me but they are now undercut by an intrusive thought that I'm buying into some loser nerd's power fantasy...
>>23555944Come to Wagner, anon. The true ubermensch and father figure for Nietzsche.
>>23555961I like Wagner, I lift to Wagner (got that from Brooks Kubik) but did he write anything other than music and essays about musics? I need books to tell me how to live a good life because I'm midly autistic and/or possibly a little retarded.
>>23555978Not quite. He wrote extensively on a variety of subjects, mostly to do with culture and art, but never anything prescriptive for life, at least not within a single piece. Really, it's good to listen to him and if you ever get curious about the deeper meanings within his works it's worthwhile to read the man's own reflections on the purpose of art.
>>23554205>Wagner and Parsifal are hardly "Christian"In Nietzsche's sense they 100% are and Nietzsche explicitly identified them as such, and Wagner himself agreed. The Christian ideals of pity, forgiveness and self-sacrifice are all glorified in a manner consistent with Christian tradition. Even if he wouldn't be considered Christian theologically, he is 100% aligned with the spirit of Christianity. You can say redemption is not unique to Christianity, but Wagner very explicitly is portraying redemption from the Christian perspective, tied up with ideas of original sin, guilt, faith exemplified in the original mythos of Christ's life. The effect of the crucifixion is not comparable to the effect of anything in Buddhism or Hinduism, and it is integral to the world of Parsifal.
>>23540544>shatters your slave moralityAnon, Nietzsche never said any one morality is good or bad. He never said "you should not have slave morality". He said different moralities will be appropriate for different groups. A lion will have lion morality because he is a lion. What Nietzsche criticized is Christianity, where according to him morality had turned into a weird mixture between master morality and slave morality.
>>23543685Nietzsche never propagated nihilism, but warned against it.
>>23555978In most of his prose, even when ostensibly only about art, he is always explicating the ideal relation between art and life. How a Beethoven symphony can, for example, motivate a certain conception of and action in the world. Siegfried is the greatest depiction of youth, athleticism and selbstbildung in all art. And at each time Wagner is creating a drama, his outlook is dominated by it, so all of his prose works are the intellectual expression of that outlook. The equivalent prose works for Siegfried would be Art and Revolution, The Artwork of the Future, etc., in which we find statements like the following, where the emphasis is on art as the product of a lived experience:>Art is the highest expression of activity of a race that has developed its physical beauty in unison with itself and Nature; and man must reap the highest joy from the world of sense, before he can mould therefrom the implements of his art; for from the world of sense alone, can he derive so much as the impulse to artistic creation.>That which a man loves, that deems he beautiful; that which strong, free Men—who in community are all that of their essence they can be—that which they love in common, that is in very surety beautiful. No other natural standard exists for true, not inculcated, Beauty.And at a later date, while writing Meistersinger, we find something of the opposite view, a justification of aesthetic-culture, a celebration of traditional art as an escape from life, an essentially conservative outlook. Seen in this way, we can conceive of a Tannhauser period, a Ring period, a Tristan period, a Parsifal period, etc. But there is never any contradiction. They all express differing aspects of life, and differing aspects of his own personality, as any dramatist must. Whichever drama interests you, read his prose works from around that time. Personally I find his Beethoven essay the most inspiring, and it may give you guidance in life.
>>23540544
>>23554205>calls others low IQ>his argument is just claiming a strawmen (but not proving it) and personal attacksAll you guys do is post "herp derp slave morality" the tip your fedoras while you live in fear of other man and slaves to your sins. You won't even speak the truth out of fear of being "cancelled" or fired. You'll probably cry about me calling you a fedora for acting like one with your "debate" "skills".
>>23540544How do you kiss with a mustache like that?
>>23555557>I got caught lying and decided not to respondyou lost. fuck off faggot>>23556025word salad. Christianity invented none of these things and it's pagan in spirit.>>23557046nice, another ad hominem from a jew worshipping faggot>You won't even speak the truth out of fear of being "cancelled" or firedthis isn't the argument you think it is, buddy
>>23558625>Christianity invented none of these thingsThere is a definite Christian version of these things. That's what Nietzsche believed. It's a fundamental aspect of Nietzsche's critique of Christianity, since he sees Christianity (very obviously) in much of Western culture. If you disagree with Nietzsche on this point just say so instead of beating around the bush.
>>23558625Take your meds schizo fedora faggot. Why are you atheists so mentally unstable?>>You won't even speak the truth out of fear of being "cancelled" or fired>this isn't the argument you think it is, buddyBig man on the internet, live like a coward in the real world.
>>23558673>There is a definite Christian version of these thingsdidn't invent any and doesn't change the fact that parsifal is a demonstration that these values can exist separate from christianity>>23558755no argument, just "you are le atheist"meanwhile you're a brown mutt dork who worships a jew>get your livelihood destroyed in real life because jew worship and jews have dominated societysmartest christian faggot
>>23558826>these values can exist separate from christianityNot for Nietzsche. And not for Wagner either. They both explicitly described Christianity as bringing something new to Europe and believed that new 'something' was embodied in Parsifal. You have to disagree with both Nietzsche's and Wagner's assessment to make these claims.
>>23557270you dont
>>23543588Brilliant Heidegger
>>23540544itt lets imagine a timeline nietzsche married a girl and fathered some children? what would change? would he still go insane or would he stray to a normie path later in life
>>23559679He wouldn't have written anything of note but he still would have ended up with a brain tumor that killed him just like his father.
