Just wondering when the concept of hero got subsumed by the concept of moral acts. Cause it seems well into the early modern period, Hero had the primary meaning of one who does daring world changing deeds. Like Acheles who would slaughter innocents and would't overlook slights to his honor. Or a viking of the same mold. It seems even in Arthurian literature, where piety could be a strong source of might, an obviously antagonistic knight who stole someone's beloved and broke his oaths could still be referred to as a hero, because despite his evils, he was regardless a man of action, and that was the operative nature of heroics.So where along the lines did heroism change from "One who does great deeds" to "One who does great Moral deeds"?
>>23556646you really are retarded huh? lmao
>>23556646>When did "Hero" become "Good guy"?That's always been the case. It's morality that changes from era to era.
>>23556646The plague called Christianity along with capeshit were the mainly responsible for the destruction of heroes and manly figures.
>>23556646He's always been the 'good guy'. Just at the etymology of the word. What you should be asking is when our idea of 'good' changed, which then occasioned a change in the hero. You sound like you probably just want to read Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morality.
>>23556657>>23556670"good guy" =/= protagonist, I am well aware that these are POV characters because of some merit or another that makes them notable enough to be protagonists.By "good guy" im refering to the convention that this person is implied to be "good" because he is somehow more utilitarian or egalitarian or universally minded than another.In these more ancient stories slavery or bloodshed arent considered an intrinsic good or bad. Achilles' bloodsheed is lauded because of his heroics, but if he was captured, that would be a shame. And even in the more modern stories with more focus on universals, Lancelot's enemy, Meleagant is still a hero despite being thoroughly presented as despicable.While im referring to a "good guy" thats been much narrowed in scope to "one who does unto others what he wants done unto himself". So that a hero is no longer someone of note, but someone of note who followed a certain prerogative. You can still believe in a prerogative (like lancelot), while still admiting someone is notable (like Meleagant) who doesnt follow that same perogative, and thats what I mean by hero being depreciated into "good guy".
>>23556766Once again, just read Nietzsche's Genealogy, you'll find the ideas you're looking for in there. The etymology of the Greek word is a defender or protector, he is 'good' for the community he belongs to, from their perspective. In a larger sense, Hercules assumed the role of 'heros' of all humanity. He was universally good for man.
>>23556812what about Achilles' whole thing of not fighting cause the king breached his honor by apropriating a slave of his? and thus causing the greeks to be in a stale mate for a long time and die much more?thats hardly gaurdian or protector like. unless of his own honor.And I also recall Hercules not being particularly motivated by protecting humanity. most of his big quest was in repentance for killing his family in illusion enduced fury.And Saga heros are very often vagabonds of no particular defence either, but persuers of glory and gain.
kys
>>23556646Since Superman
>>23556646When Saul of Tarsus had a mental breakdown on the road to Damascus.
>>23556829>what about Achilles' whole thing of not fighting cause the king breached his honor by apropriating a slave of his? and thus causing the greeks to be in a stale mate for a long time and die much more?I really fail to see how this contradicts his essential role as a defender. He's an honourable fighter for the Greeks and his own Myrmidons, that's what he is. He is seen as an honourable representative of the Greeks. In a sense, his safeguarding his own honour, by living his life honourably, is safeguarding the honour of the Greeks.>And I also recall Hercules not being particularly motivated by protecting humanity. most of his big quest was in repentance for killing his family in illusion enduced fury.There is an extended Hercules mythos found in the Greek plays, in which he is a deified embodiment or protector of humanity.
>>23556646Jews first created Christianity and turning the other cheek became good morals, then Jews created capeshit and killing your enemy became immoral.
>>23556766youre actually a dumb faggot with reading comprehension issues. two anons before you said it's the concept of morality changing and your response is to strawman them and says "WELL AKSHULLY GOOD GUY DOES NOT EQUAL PROTOGONIST".you're literally dumb and gay.
>>23556871I agree a large part of it is honor, and I can see how the semantic connotations of "defender" could then transpose into one more focused around honor, personal and tribe wise.>>23557124No cause I gave an example of how a shift in morality doesnt necissarily mean the abandonment of a semantic meaning itself. I literally gave an example of someone pretty explicitly called "bad" in Lancelot's Meleagent, but who was still considered a hero.I said up to early modern because you can literally find this sense of the term firmly after the moral paradigm was separated from that of the hero. A 18th century british dandy would still refer to Atilla the hun as a "hero", but he probably wouldn't find him morally respectable. You dense. Mother. fucker.
>>23557158>You dense. Mother. fucker.oh he's a redditor. Guess this thread makes sense now.
>>23557165>I give examples>You give buzzwords
>>23556646>had the primary meaning of one who does daring world changing deedsSo "hero" became more realistic?
>>23556646>In English the meaning "man who exhibits great bravery" in any course of action is from 1660s. The sense of "chief male character in a play, story, etc." is recorded by 1690s. Hero-worship is from 1713 in reference to ancient cults and mysteries; of living men by 1830s.
>>23556646Possibly when questing knights and therefore chivalry became popular.
>>23556646Probably in the early 1900s when jews started influencing culture and public opinion in the USA.From cape shit super heroes, Hollywood to emasculation of men by feminine upbringing.
>>23556646For Europe, medieval times I would say
Fucking read Plato
The Jungian hero archetype is a powerful symbol of human potential, representing courage, strength, and triumph. It inspires individuals to strive for greatness, overcome challenges, and achieve their goals, making it a fundamental aspect of human psychology.
>>23557276yes, this is what I mean, even well into the early midern period gero was considered more to do with bravery or centrality rather than righteousness.>>23557308>>23557590please refer to above.
>>23556646Leaders would rather the rabble idolize pacified sissies that are obedient to the status quo.
>>23557659I don't read pagans.
>>23556646Right around when Christian Slave Morality hits.
A heroic figure is one who embodies the ideals of a given culture. The ideals of cultures would obviously include morality.
Watch Megamind.
>>23556662>>23556878>>23558704>>23558712>le Nietzschetranny buzzword argumentAnd people wonder why atheistgolem are called fools by God's Word in the Psalms, and why people still call them "fedoras" for repeating the same retarded nonsense "arguments" years later.>>23558509You cowards live in fear of being "cancelled" that you won't even oppose sodomite pedos pushing LGBT filth on kids out of fear of being fired.You can cry "slave morality" all you want, you guys are the slaves.
>>23556662glad you're blaming the "christians" - the old testament fucking LOVED slaughter.
>>23558752>LOOK AT MUH EPIC JPEGS AND MUH EPIC STRAWMEN!!1!Talk about predictable.Just go back to your /lgbt/ home board, pedo atheist freak.EUSSR sodomite coward, your countries are turning Muslim.
>>23558764I saw your other posts around the board, at this point I know you are someone baiting and trying to make me and others have more contempt for e-christians. I mean, no one can be so stupid and obnoxious on purpose.
>>23558753Old Testament is a great recollection of how pathetic Jews are, beings full of insecurity and malevolent thinking. Pure impotent frustration. No wonder they created the small dick energy god from a mycelany of based Sumerian gods.
>>23558752>Muttmerican>>23558773>y-you're a troll!!11!Get b& already, EUSSR pedophile.
>>235587894/10 bait.
>>23556662>>23558712>>23556812>>23556878>>23557429>>23557742>>23558509>>23558704>>23558712>>23558752>>23558785
>>23556646Moral good used to be kicking and and being awesomeThen we gave power to women and now moral good is collectivism, self sacrifice and putting up with bullshit.The heros of our stories reflect our age.
