Any other books destroying the modern emphasis on Eastern spiritualties? I feel like their influence has been growing lately in many forms - obvious new-age amazon boxes, Guenon shilling, all religions are the same, Jesus Christ was just a teacher, etc.
>>23557604Fr. Seraphim Rose predicted that "aliens" (actually demons) would be the excuse that the globalists use to create a New World Order.The 2016 film Arrival was exactly what Fr. Seraphim Rose was warning about: "Benevolent" aliens with a message of "unity"
>>23557604>Guenonleave us alone.Learn to be a good christian and grow closer to God before starting little retard crusade against respected authors who led lots of people to orthodoxy and monasticism (Seraphim rose being one of them)
>>23557650>respected authorsIt doesn't matter how "respected" someone is when he promoted demonic ideas. He had some truths critical of modernity and it's good that those writings opened the minds of people to seek truth further, but his views on Christianity themselves are false and demonic.
>GuénonInto the trash it goes.
>>23557604I guess the classic is mcmindfulness although i havent even skimmed itMy boss in finance was an avid meditator She’s probably seething right now that i quit and she surely must have realised she wasted her entire life by now with palestine and all happeningYea so basically mindfulness at the top where money and power is is really only at the lowest about lowering stress so more work can be done and at the highest it’s about forgiving the evils of a system or rationalising or blinding yourself to it spiritually so that you can continue to partake in the system for lifestyle spoils Also financial system is no better than aristocrats closer to a goldmine taking higher cut. Here’s the cheatcode of our century i refused to use: the closer to the top in central banking, the lower your interest rate, meaning license to do anything in the world. Also dangerous levels of e coli on your tongue correlates with how low your interest rate is.
>>23557658Guenon was right about everything
>>23557604McMindfulness, but only the article because the book repeats itself for 300 pages.Also need a book critiquing “religion studies”/comparative religion. It simultaneously legitimizes non-Christian religions and brings Christianity down to the level of purely human myth.
>>23557658>his views on Christianity themselves are false and demonic.he literrally approved orthodoxy against papism and protestantism and said there is initiation in hesychasm. You just hate all other relions and pre-christian wisdom and are into a protestant blind-faith mindset (apparently like most american converts who are from protestantism).ydy but he is actually respected by church people and elder in orthodxy for defending wisdom and tradition, even if they don't agree. You cannot say " everyone that isn't me is demonic". It's oversimplistic and unhealthy. I don't think even Seraphim rose criticize himoenly in his book (or compilation of writings by some people)
Ironic that Orthodogs are talking about other things being “satanic”. First cast out the beam out of thine own eye.
>>23557604If you take as your initial premise that the point of life is to avoid suffering, and that this is rational, and that there is no God, and (in western Buddhism at least) no real punishment for misdoing, it's very easy to convince yourself that it's okay to do shitty things because everything is relative and "this relieves my suffering" and "there is no wrongdoing only ignorance." Source: father was an alcoholic meditation teacher. You had all these idiots thinking he was a guru and I wanted to blow it all up so bad, "no he's just charismatic and knows how to say the right things, all he does in his personal time is drink his head off and yell at everyone. He's a shit father and a shit human being, he doesn't even really meditate." I rebelled against him by returning to the religion he had rebelled against. Still these dumb wealthy white people think he was some sort of semi-guru to this day. Don't have it in me to break their bubble or dishonor the famirry, plus the commandments and such.Buddhist ethics becomes "just be compassionate, be nice." But being compassionate becomes "feel a certain way" (which is worthless) and being nice becomes "be agreeable and likable" (also next to worthless from a moral perspective).
>>23557731>said there is initiation in hesychasm.He thought it had "initiation" into his demonic perennialist system where all religions somehow share the same "esoteric" core, but it's the opposite if you actually read the Church Fathers. Nobody but Guenon believes it's all part of the same religion. In Orthodoxy there is no real distinction between esoteric/exoteric, there is no hidden knowledge closed to some members of the Church.>actually respected by church people and elder in orthodxy for defending wisdom and traditionPlease post some Orthodox bishops and saints defending Guenon's views of Christianity. Also I'm not even close to being American, not that it matters. American saints also know exactly what Guenon's "all religions are the same bro advaita is just like Orthodox monasticism at its core bro!" teachings are all about. His teachings are demonic and anathema to the Church, it has nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing with them.
>>23557604Do you think these people actually practice mindfulness/meditation? I’ve met a bunch of women who claimed they did but it seemed awfully superficial. I got the impression they were trying to project an “aesthetic” more than anything else
>>23557749>In Orthodoxy there is no real distinction between esoteric/exotericCatholic here, there is to a degree. The eucharist itself is esoteric and open only to the baptized, it used to be the catechists would spend a couple of years and not be able to fully participate in the mass, would actually have to leave before the consecration etc, and teachings about the Trinity and the mysteries were kept away until the end. Yeah we all baptize babies now, I'm just saying.Agree that saying all religions are the same is a heresy. This is why if you join the masons you're automatically excommunicated.
>>23557766>there is to a degreeOnly between those outside the Church and those inside the Church. It's not like in Guenonianism where even inside the religion there is "esoteric" knowledge you need to get initiated into and the "rituals" are just forms where everyone "in the know" is larping.
Why are (some) Christians like this? I mean, paranoid and vengeful against alternative or possibly wider worldviews.I mean, it’s a silly rhetorical question, as I sort of understand it. I actually had this phase once, too. I was big on some of the more fundamentalist American Christian conspiracy theorists who spoke a lot on various government misdeeds, coverups, and crimes, but also fused it with fears of the occult and Satanism (which might indeed sometimes be valid) (figures like Fritz Springmeier and Bill Cooper), but it extended to fears about groups like Theosophy or Eastern spiritual teachings. It comes from a strong and very effective form of social conditioning that also gives one a very easy way of dividing the world into “good” and “evil”, “light” and “darkness”. Interestingly, it was this phase of serious interest in certain conspiracy theorists talking about the occult as it relates to a “New World Order” or “Illuminati” conspiracy, some Luciferian cult behind politics, finance, media, etc., that itself got me interested in the occult and alternative spiritual teachings. Which broadened my worldview considerably. (Although I still retain my instinctive distrust of some occult current possibly behind Western political and financial power.)At worst, some of the “New Agers” of the West are shallow, cliched, stereotypical and themselves can be just as small-minded as those they think they’re more open-minded than. But it’s hard to call them “evil.” More like misguided and clueless. Hamas slaughtering Israeli civilians in a surprise attack is evil. Dropping countless bombs on Gazan civilians is something evil. Offensive research into biological warfare is something evil. Some schmuck interested in Zen is not really so “evil” compared to that.In my view, various yogis and monks of the East are essentially just that culture’s own version of their sages, just like we had sages among the Ancient Greeks whom even some early Church fathers like St. Justin of Martyr regarded as “virtuous pagans” inspired by the Logos without having explicitly known of Christ or Christian teachings then. St. Augustine also claims that “the Christian teaching has always existed and never did not exist”, even before it was in the form and name of his day or Christ’s day. It’s just different people trying to make sense of what God, transcendence, or a flourishing and virtuous life could be.To me, it’d be stranger if God DIDN’T inspire different people of different cultures and particularly and exclusively only vested His revelations in one specific peoples or concentrated it in a specifically circumscribed geographical and temporal area for its origins.
>>23557731Yep, thanks for putting it more concisely for me.
>>23557812Yeah that's wrong. My post was kind of a quibble anyway probly shouldn't have even made it.
>>23557813>It comes from a strong and very effective form of social conditioning that also gives one a very easy way of dividing the world into “good” and “evil”, “light” and “darkness”.Have you read the New Testament? "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." Many such verses.
>>23557813Because we love Truth. It may come off as paranoid but we just want everyone to know that you can't mix falsehood with truth as everyone in modernity is doing.>In my view, various yogis and monks of the East are essentially just that culture’s own version of their sages,This relativism is what you inevitably fall into when you refuse to actually study the differences more deeply and want to larp like it's all speaking about the same thing. We believe Christian teaching is the fulfillment of the revelation to Adam and has existed in some way since the beginning of the world. We also believe that humans are created in God's image and can learn some things about God and the world by reasoning. But are those saints you mentioned saying "hindus are the same bro"? Also don't forget the harrowing of Hades where certain pagans that didn't worship idols could have been saved by hearing Christ's preaching when He descended into hell, those virtuous pagans are very different from demon-worshipping so-called sages you see today in India.>To meYou and I are limited beings, so our best choice is to try and believe in what God did and revealed instead of imposing our own idea of there having to be the same level of revelation in all religions.
>>23557604if you're so paranoid about elite corruption of ideologies why would you assume buddhism is inherently elite-corrupt but not extend this same assumption to organized christlarping?
>>23557731>he literrally approved orthodoxyHe also admitted not knowing much about it if I recall correctly. Unironically sounds like a larper that approved of it because it sounded more cool, exotic and ancient compared to the heretical forms of Christianity he was directly familiar with. Either way, his approval doesn't mean we have to approve of his views about it. It's sad that he chose to pursue Sufism instead of dropping his presuppositions and learning more about Orthodoxy.>>23557823>My post was kind of a quibble anyway probly shouldn't have even made it.I think it still has value in showing the difference between real esoterism of joining the Church in baptism and the fake Guenonian version.
>>23557846Because the elites are obviously opposed to Christianity. Both outrightly (sex ed classes telling kids to masturbate, doctors telling parents their kids have to become trans or they'll LITERALLY KILL THEMSELVES, giving aid to foreign countries only if they support gay rights, destroying the family with contraception, etc) and also implicitly (protestants who think the point of Christianity is to support capitalism and above all Israel).But they don't seem to have any problem with mindfulness/Buddhism, in fact they rather favor it. Hmmmmm....
>>23557846Because the elites hate Christ and Orthodoxy as it goes against everything else and asserts itself as the absolute and only truth. Buddhism is useful to them, other religions too because of their relaxed views on truth. Basically they win if they make you worship even one false religion, they just need to trick you somehow, doesn't matter exactly how. So it makes sense to use everything they can, push quantum physics and science as the new religion for atheists, push Hinduism for new-agers, push Buddhism for those sympathetic to both, etc.
>>23557766>Yeah we all baptize babies now, I'm just saying.Christians don't though, see Acts 8:37 for what's required before baptism. The verse is even in your Catholic Douay-Rheims version ("she" in Genesis 3:15).>Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Also note how Acts 8:37 contains a declaration of faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (and calling him "Christ" isn't a surname, it's a title), Jesus Christ being the Son of God was something Alexandrians didn't like, and with it gone in many modern "bibles" translating from the heretical texts from Alexandria, Egypt rather than the real bible out of Antioch where they were first called Christians, people can justify baptizing babies; but it just makes a wet baby, it doesn't do anything without the profession of faith. And it's baptism of the Holy Ghost that is required to join the church, not water baptism, and only the Lord Jesus Christ can do that.>Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.The heretical Alexandrian priest cults baptize babies. I mean, they lied to you and you trusted them, it's who you put your trust in: God and His words, or priests/bishops/popes and man's words; I'm just saying.>>23557813>Why are (some) Christians like this? I mean, paranoid and vengeful against alternative or possibly wider worldviews.I wouldn't use those adjectives, but when you know the way and the truth and the life, and that there's no salvation in any other, you're going to warn people.>that also gives one a very easy way of dividing the world into “good” and “evil”, “light” and “darkness”. Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.As for the "NWO", that's in prophecy, it's the beast system where ultimately you won't be able to buy or sell unless you have the mark of the beast. I also wouldn't typically use a term like "NWO" though, but there is a specific Bible which "they" hate above all the rest and which they've been trying to replace for centuries.>But it’s hard to call them “evil.” I disagree.Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;And Christ referred to his audience as "evil" in Matthew 7:11 during the sermon on the mount. He also said, There's none good but one, that is God.>At worst, some of the “New Agers” of the West are shallow, cliched, stereotypicalThey may think it's all innocent fun, but that's extremely naive. Like those who do Yoga not knowing it's pagan deity worship.>is not really so “evil” compared to that.The standard for good is God, not man.
>>23557731>supporting Orthodoxy over Catholicism because it's more le mysticalTop fucking kek. Yeah the orthos are all super sekrit sages living in caves and the Catholics are so damn boring with their housewives and hospitals and charities and such. You could fill a large library with the works of Catholic mystics.
>>23557749it just is you dsliking everything pre-christian andeeming it demonic. But from saint justin martyr, until recently saint seraphim sarov (quotedin the first page of thr book "Christ the eternal Tao") some christians have appreciated and heavily relied on the logoi spermatikoi (seeds of the holy spirit). They didn't just deemed it all demonic. Saint paul too appreciated andlouded the religiosity of greeks when he went to them. He didn't just go "demons ! demons !!! demons !!!! AAAHHH !!!!"Also the liturgy was called a "mystery" so it was indeed esoteric. And now, not all people receive the blessing to say the Jesus prayer and have the guidance of a spiritually experienced elder (which is what initiation is about in Guenon's explanation). The spiritual maturity one gains from the guidance, blessing and prayer of his elder permits him to penetrate more deeply into the "mystery" of the holy cup... It's nt sect within christianity (though it has been called like that by Barlaam) but it is simply a traditional scheme of spiritual deepening and initiation byexperienced people for those who seek for it and have more religious zeal
>>23557857>>23557859"Elite" ideology competes with Christianity but that doesn't make Christianity correct, or Buddhism wrong, or their reading of Buddhist concepts correct.
>>23557748Anything that rejects karma and rebirth is not buddhist
>>23557830Of course. I frequently think of rereading it, so thanks for reminding me. I know that quote it and it’s in fact in a very applicable one. I am not an anti-Christian in the sense of being fervently against Christ’s teachings or those of wise Christians, from the New Testament to today.>>23557861> They may think it's all innocent fun, but that's extremely naive. Like those who do Yoga not knowing it's pagan deity worship.It’s interesting to hear your views and thank you for explaining it more thoroughly, but I still don’t completely buy this. Sure, there may be perverted or corrupt Indians and yogis who fall into something like demon-worship; like some of the antinomian Kali cults or the Thuggees. But there are also Indian sages, yogis, and gurus who essentially live lives very much like some Christian monk or ascetic as can be found in the Christian traditions. They’re devoted to God and seek to do good and minimize the evil they do and any suffering they cause to others. (Real, good, saintly Indian gurus or yogis, besides those of other cultures or their equivalents of “monks”, “saints”, “yogis”). I do also see the parallels to Christian prophecy, yes, and just used “NWO” as an easy short-hand. Bilderbergers, globalists, the power elite, the cryptocracy, maybe even Talmudic Zionism or something Sabbatian Frankism fused with the idea of “illuminism” is also behind it. Anyway, it was good and interesting talking, but I think it’s useless to talk further, as we’re both on different wavelengths and will not budge each other in this conversation. As firm and settled as you presently are in your present beliefs and whatever years or time of studies, is about as settled as I am on certain of these things.I view good true Christians as brothers and sisters and a potential great bulwark against some of the evil, corruption, and degeneracy of the West. So you may have a good point that adjectives like “paranoid and vengeful” were too harsh (although sometimes I think they really do apply). But otherwise that’s what I’m leaving it at, I doubt either of us will have a “conversion” experience from such a conversation. Basically, what you feel towards Christianity, I also find this potential in other cultures, that there can even be “saints” of other cultures, simply in an outwardly different cultural framework. But we probably won’t agree on this.
>>23557837You only think God is an authority because of your own judgement
>faggot OP doesn't understand what he's talking aboutthe things you're talking about were made up during the 14th-19th centuries by western elites and then verified by other western elites as "authentic" and then weaponized (their original purpose) by later western elite agents to promote atheism, amorality, irreligion, etc. (this part is obvious, well known, and undeniable) and generally undermine christianity (actually the very concept of religion, which just happened to be christianity, which the same elites had invented a bit earlier for this purpose)dumb goyim will believe anything
>>23557847>He also admitted not knowing much about it if I recall correctlyaccordingto his own criteria of erudition. So he knew a lot about christianityand at least red lossky (mystical theology...) and louded it. He had real reasons to disaviw papism which joins orthodoxy and explained reasons to believe there where a soiritual transmission in orthodoxy "hesychasm (as strict of an initiation as ther can be) as well as it's theology. He just ended up in Egypt but didn't "pursue sufism", became muslim or anything, he rejects this idea.initiation is not arcade secrets, but spiritual education nly more zealous pursue with experienced elders, because not everyonhas an elder, obedience, can become monk, practice pure prayer,... Guenon didn't believe esotericism had yo be a secret sect within christianism
>>23557941Actual Orthodox people don't agree with Guenon's perrennialist views at all.They agree with some of Guenon's critiques of modernity and secularism, but that's as far as it goes really.
>>23557877>"Elite" ideology competes with Christianity but that doesn't make Christianity correct,Who said that it did?>>23557896He didn't reject karma/rebirth but it all just turned to mush in his brain (probably all the booze). He felt like worst case scenario you get reborn as an earthworm or something. Anyway I'm not claiming he was actually Buddhist, he obviously wasn't. Real Buddhist ethics is virtually identical with Christian ethics. I'm just pointing out how those ideas get distorted in real life. I've seen plenty of jackass stoners with little Buddha statues on their desk, never a crucifix. Wonder why?
>>23557994>Real Buddhist ethics is virtually identical with Christian ethics>The ten commandments LITERALLY are a Buddhist handbook to destroying your identity.I don't know why people still say this.
>>23557999I didn't say that, I just mean the fundamental ideas of right and wrong action, who's living a good life versus a bad one, are virtually the same. That's an orthodox point of view in Catholicism, ever hear of natural law?
less than 30% of earths population is christian. what happened, god?
>>23558006I don't know how those who deny the most important part of ethics, i.e. following Christ can be virtually the same. It sound like part of the propaganda of all religions being the same and that everyone can be saved if they're just a "good person" even though only Christ is Good and you can't be truly good without Him.
more than 80% have smartphones.
>>23558023No, it's orthodoxy. "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them." Romans 2:14-15. Saying that even someone who has never heard of Christ, or has heard of him but rejected him, still knows right from wrong and can (at least to that extent) be a good person is an orthodox position. It is also simply common sense if you have any experience with non-Christian people. The Church Fathers had no problem saying that pagan philosophers were virtuous people, for example, something that you can hardly deny if you read their works. You're being overly defensive. This is not the same thing as religious relativism.
>>23557908>Sure, there may be perverted or corrupt Indians and yogis who fall into something like demon-worshipNo, that's literally what the poses represent. One of them represents one of their false gods placing someone's severed head on a pike (IIRC). People do this thinking it's just some stretching pose. Aside from Yoga, the negative effects of mainstream meditation have also been covered by ex-new agers, like Steven Bancarz who used to be very heavily into new age stuff, and he shows all the data and figures in the video he made on it.>But there are also Indian sages, yogis, and gurus who essentially live lives very much like some Christian monk or ascetic as can be found in the Christian traditions. They’re devoted to God and seek to do good and minimize the evil they do and any suffering they cause to others.Completely different and completely different God and gods. Just doing good and not doing evil as much won't save either since we're already guilty, works-based religions like that are just self-righteousness.If a bank robber is caught, it doesn't matter how much he donates or does good or never robs again, the judge holds him accountable for the crime. Well the true living God is more holy, more righteous, and more severe than that; even just one lie makes us worthy of death, it doesn't matter what "good" we do in our life, it's irrelevant to the case. The Bible says all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags to God, even the best "good" we can do is just a filthy rag to a Holy God. We're all guilty, we've all sinned, we've all broken the one true living God's moral law, and the only way to be saved is through the blood atonement of the only begotten Son of the living God, there's no other way to enter in, anyone who would try to enter by another way is called a robber and thief by Jesus. The Christ proved who he claimed to be and his sayings by the deeds he did and by the resurrection. God's not some hippie who says "come as you are", he's a holy and righteous God who will judge the world in righteousness, and if we're judged for our works, we'll all perish, the only way to be saved is by God's grace. The blood atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ is not automatically applied to everyone, you have to repent and believe the gospel. There are many "Christians" who reject this too, they want to work their way into heaven like Muslims or Catholics, their own self-righteousness rather than the righteousness of Christ. And while God expects good works, those are a fruit of a living faith, it comes naturally from an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.>that there can even be “saints” of other cultures, simply in an outwardly different cultural framework. But we probably won’t agree on this.I wouldn't be surprised if this had already been done or was in the works by Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth. Very ecumenical and worldly.
>>23558046I think claiming that the religion's ethics are very similar or virtually the same is a far cry from acknowledging that everyone has a conscience and knows right from wrong deep in their heart, even when most don't follow it because we are fallen. In one case you're talking about their values as a religion (which are evil), and in the other case you are noticing how in spite of this evil they can still somewhat follow the Good because it's written in their hearts.
>>23558067>>23557908>simply in an outwardly different cultural frameworkNobody actually believed this before modernity, even the most hardcore followers of their religions still don't believe this. It's a washed down McDonalds tier understanding of religion.
>>23557971I heard elders praising his explanation of symbolism (unlike a simple metaphor), his call for a return to tradition and his explanation of it as a spiritual transmmission and his preictions about the future of the modern world. Nuns also praising him for bringing so much people to orthodoxy. Perennialist people will simply keep it to themselves and not try to fight christian exclusivismI already
>>23558169I already mentionned to you the quote of saint seraphim sarov which approved taoism.
>>23558067> another way is called a robber and thief by Jesus. The Christ proved who he claimed to be and his sayings by the deeds he did and by the resurrectionWe have no way of knowing if that’s true or not
>>23557871Guenon preciselyconcider him a mystic, and not an initiated (while considering hesychasm an initiation)
>>23558169>I heard eldersWhich elders? What you described is just his critique of modernity, nobody Orthodox would ever agree with anything Guenon had to say about Christianity. He never brought anyone to Orthodoxy because he didn't preach it, at best he was providentially used by God to make people think about things that would eventually lead them to Orthodoxy, I myself was like this.>>23558178>saint seraphim sarov which approved taoismPost the quote. Approving Taoism is impossible for a Christian, you can only approve of some aspects and notice how they might be the result of someone genuinely searching for truth, but not more than that.
>>23557908>They’re devoted to GodWhich God? There is no God but the Holy Trinity and they reject Christ as the Logos and Son of God.
>>23557908>simply in an outwardly different cultural frameworkBut who is judging what is in the same framework and what is not? How do you decide besides complete subjectivism and relativism that these Indian "gurus" are good, and those are demon worshippers?
>>23558163As explicitly mentioned in a post before, St. Justin Martyr (c.AD 100 – c.AD 165), a Church Father for both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, a philosopher, theologian, and apologist for Christianity, explicitly did claim a version of this in his own defense of Ancient Greek sages and philosophers, from Heraclitus to Aristotle, whom he regarded as “virtuous pagans” inspired by the Logos or the “logoi spermatikoi”, (as referenced in >>23557873), seeds of the Holy Spirit or Logos inspiring or (metaphorically “inseminating”) them. Sounds gay, but it’s true.https://www.britannica.com/biography/Saint-Justin-MartyrAnd it’s a known fact much of both Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox theology, philosophy, and mysticism was openly inspired by and interacted deeply with Greek philosophy from its early origins.
>>23558199How is the recognition that other people discovered bits of truth the same as saying it's all the same, just in different "cultural frameworks"? You're equating disparate things. Also those pagans lived before Christ and could right now be saved for all we know, if they listened to Christ's preaching in Hades. It's not the same as currently living demon-worshippers in India.>openly inspired by and interacted deeply with Greek philosophyAgain you're confusing use of language with the content being the same. Orthodox philosophy rejects Platonism, etc. and always has.
>>23557994>Who said that it did?It's very obviously implied by posters ITT; surely you are not attracted to something because you believe it is false.
>>23558211The original poster asked how we know that Christianity is not elite-compromised, and anons answered why they think that. It doesn't directly have to do with its truth.
>>23558184>Ji Ming’s teaching concerning Te is in keeping with that of other Chinese commentators on the Tao Te Ching. The 13th century writer, Wu Cheng, commenting on chapter 51 of the Tao Te Cheng, asserts that Te is divine and uncreated, as is the Tao, itself. The Tao and Te are mentioned at the beginning of the chapter. He wrote, “But only the Tao is mentioned later. This is because Te is also the Tao.”>Classical scholar, Yen Ling Fung writes, “Te is the manifestation of the Way. The Tao is what Te contains.” In the Orthodox Christian tradition, we say the same thing about the grace or uncreated energy of God. “Uncreated energy,” writes the Orthodox theologian, Vladimir Lasky, “is the manifestation of the essence of God, in which everything that exists partakes, thus making God known. This energy is inseparable from God’s essence, in which He goes forth from Himself, manifests, communicates and gives Himself. As for the manifestation, itself, it is eternal, for it is the glory of God.”>So both the essence and the energy of God are God. There is no separation in God, it is just, as Vladimir Lasky says elsewhere in his book, Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church, “The energy of God is the mode of existence of God, in which he communicates Himself.” Again, this is the same as the Chinese conception of Te.>As St. Seraphim of Sarov affirms, “God’s seekers who lived before Christ knew what is meant to cultivate grace or divine energy in themselves. “They had,” he says, “a clear and rational comprehension of how our Lord, God, the Holy Spirit, acts in man, and by means of what inner and outer feelings one can be sure that this is really the action of the Lord, God, the Holy Spirit, and not a delusion of the enemy.” Here he is speaking about people before the coming of Christ, and we see this is in Lao Tzu.>This understanding of the cultivation of grace is found in several places of the Tao Te Ching. Here, according to the Tao Te Ching, we have translated Te as grace. Lao Tzu wrote, “Cultivate grace in your own person, and grace becomes real. He who follows the Way is at one with the Way. He who cultivates grace is at one with grace. When you become the valley of the world, eternal grace will never depart. Such is the return to the babe.”hieromok damascene, spiritual child of seraphim rose, who wrote theaccount of the life of seraphim rose and the book "Christ the eternal Tao" he his here talking about.(I saw lots of moks in Vatopedi in the mount athos reading it openly from the common library (I guess the elder knows what there is in it))
>>23558229>“God’s seekers who lived before Christ knew what is meant to cultivate grace or divine energy in themselves. They had a clear and rational comprehension of how our Lord, God, the Holy Spirit, acts in man, and by means of what inner and outer feelings one can be sure that this is really the action of the Lord, God, the Holy Spirit, and not a delusion of the enemy.”>approved taoism???
>>23558207>Orthodox philosophy rejects Platonismkek. Stop using thegreek creedof Nicea-constantinople then or stop reading the gospel of John, and give up the study of church fathers quoting all parts of plotinus,... sop using th words"logos" or "hypostases"No one ask you to believe anyother religion or philosophy, but have some respect, at least for what church fathers respected themselves. Religion can only be a matter of a personal relationship with God so it should go with freedom and tolerance
>>23558233According to the same author (father damascene), he talks aboyt taoism and also in thelonger quote he talk about the oythie of delohesand virgins of Rome if I remember correctly
>>23558253>using words redefined in an Orthodox way = accepting Platonism wholesaleThis is pretty low tier, anon.>church fathers respected themselves. The Church Fathers respected philosophers/people for finding truth in this world despite their condition, not literally everything ever said and done by their cultures/religions. The Church Fathers never teach that everything is the same, just in different cultural frameworks.
>>23558260>he talks aboyt [some good things existing in practitioners of] taoism>approved taoism???
>>23558067>One of them represents one of their false gods placing someone's severed head on a pike (IIRC).And Christian iconography and symbolism literally is centered around a person being brutally crucified, tortured to death in extreme pain on a cross.I’m not even anti-Christian, in the sense of hating Christ or finding no meaning in His words; I just think this is indicative of a certain shallowness and bigotry towards other cultures.I don’t want to be overly combative or critical against another man’s faith, as a part of my conscience tells me that’s where people get their deepest source of meaning from, heavily influencing their own life and psyche. However, if you go around more or less publicly or semi-publicly (like on an anonymous imageboard) proselytizing it, and subtly psychologically trying to force/coerce it on others with “fear vs. reward”-based conditioning (the carrot and stick, fear of hell/damnation/punishment and thirst for salvation/reward/heaven), along with casting aspersions against other cultures and religious or spiritual teachings — calling them blasphemous, demonic, evil, heretical, or whatnot — you shouldn’t be surprised if there’s at least SOME pushback.I think you’re programmed and conditioned in a way that’s not entirely correct or healthy. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the original, authentic Christ indeed had a far broader, more open-minded perspective than this. However, I can’t totally blame or fault you, as, again, I myself had a fundamentalist Christian phase where I viewed other teachings of religion/mysticism/spirituality warily and with paranoia.Essentially, it’s something comforting and vindicating to hold onto. It makes things simple, in a broad way (even while, in other ways, it may add “complications” to one’s own life, as in the ethical precepts to conform to, or having a worldview set apart from the modern scientific materialist one).I simply think there is greater spiritual meaning than whatever is SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY found in the Scriptures. And you seem to have a caricatured view of what, say, some Indian yogi or guru, or Chinese Taoist sage, is teaching, thinking, saying, doing, such that you think it’s “demonic”. When some of them may very well be as saintly as any Christian saint. I just think it’s slanderous to call them all demonic. There are people of other cultures and teachings, from Sufis to Indian sages, gurus, and yogis, who can and indeed DO take a broader view that Christ was indeed divine, had great wisdom, and his ethical and spiritual precepts do apply. But conversely, there are many Christians who (it seems) can’t really apply this broadmindedness the other way. For me, the universal view makes more sense, seems more just, rational, and all-embracing. Certain Hindus can put it this way: “Christ was an Avatar, He was God in human flesh, He did give divine spiritual and ethical teachings.”
>>23558266>they had grace from God, knew howto cultivate it and distingish it from demonic energies. That's taoist teaching in their book>"Nooo ! They have to be demoooooonnns !!!">insert basedjack crying
>>23558264>The Church Fathers never teach that everything is the same,Neither do I, nor did Guenon (which wrote great articles against syncretism).I remember know another priest giving a book of Guenon against spiritism to a girl which fell into whitchcraft and such things It's very much omnipresent.The church fathers used the very platonic and neoplatonic notion. It was itself the explanation of th orthodox faith. >accepting Platonism wholesaleyou deny the did accept it all, but your point before was>Orthodox philosophy rejects Platonism, etc. and always has.You moved your point because you cannot maintain your first position
>>23558274(Continued)There are Sufis who also have said, when asked about their attitude or relation towards Christianity, that, “We ARE Christians; we attempt to follow Christ’s teachings and we revere Him, so we are Christians inasmuch as we are Sufis, and we regard Christ as also having been a Sufi.”Even Buddhists have revered Christ and His teachings. Here is one example, speaking of the Lama Kazi Dawa-Samdup in the third-person from the perspective of Western scholar and traveler W.Y. Evan-Wentz (even while it admittedly criticizes the average exoteric beliefs on Christianity): >As the late Läma Kazi Dawa-Samdup contended, Christian theology is open to criticism for its insistence upon the paramount importance of miracles in the life of Jesus, whom the Lama regarded as being a Great Yogi and Bodhisattva. Partly because of this insistence, modern sages of the Orient say that Christianity, as interpreted by Church Councils, is representative of a purely exoteric religion. In this connexion they refer to its animistic teachings concerning the soul, its range of vision limited to the Sangsara (i.e. to Earth, Heaven, and Hell), and its lack of any doctrine (such as Gnostic Christianity, which it has decreed to be heretical, did hold) concerning transcendence over this purely sangsaric eschatology comparable with the Brahmanical Moksha or the Buddhist Nirvana. And in their view, the performance of miracles as Jesus Himself implied by saying that His followers would do greater things than He had done is no proof, as it is vulgarly assumed to be, of spiritual greatness; it is merely the sangsaric exercise of powers of magic, which is quite as capable of evil as of good**. It is this miraculous aspect of Christianity which converted St. Augustine and proved to be the chief attraction for the emotional and irrational slave converts throughout the spiritually decadent Christian empire.(“The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation; The Method of Realizing Nirvana Through Knowing the Mind”, 2000 edition, originally published 1954, pp. 26-27, by W.Y. Evans-Wentz)**[my own, anon’s, note]: “it is merely the sangsaric exercise of powers of magic, which is quite as capable of evil as of good” — “sangsaric” is simply an older-fashioned transliteration of the Buddhist/Pali “samsaric”, meaning, “of the world conceived of as lower, or unenlightened, or of the ordinary unenlightened world of sin, suffering, and the wheel of karmic consequences.”Anyway, in Christian scriptures and teachings themselves, a parallel can be found even to this claim (that “magic” or “miracles” themselves may not be entirely indicative of divinity, transcendence, or goodness, but just as well could be turned towards evil) in the fight between Moses and the Egyptian magicians.
>>23557748Your father was a fraud. Buddhist teaching involves spiritual development, this includes mental disciple and physical discipline. Karma is essential. The fact that you said "meditation teacher" rather than Buddhist shows that he's one of the McMindfulness teachers who only focus on meditation as a way to make money and feel good.
>>23558380(Continued and finis)Moses’ magic does indeed turn out to be greater than those magicians who serve the Pharoah, but it’s also claimed in Exodus that the Pharoah’s magicians indeed are also able to perform “magic” or “miracles” like turning a staff into a snake.__ So, anyway, I myself no longer have some deeply engrained bias or prejudice in myself that makes me believe others of other religions, traditions, or cultures can’t come towards some authentically faithful understanding and appreciation of Christ Himself, or of what genuine Christian teachings are, or, to put it even more broadly, what ultimate spiritual, religious, transcendental, or ethical truth is, even if it seems to be wrapped in a different cultural veil or guise.The more universal and accommodating perspective makes more sense to me, and it even makes more sense in the light of Christ’s teachings themselves, since (as you likely very well know) He Himself taught a rigorous, demanding teaching of total love and forgiveness towards all mankind and love of one’s (symbolic) brothers and sisters, whatever cross-section of mankind they were, whatever seeming social status, whether “low” or “high” in the hierarchy of power, wealth and fame, and regardless of whether they were different categories from “male or female, Greek or Jew.”Galatians 3:28:>There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.Just makes more sense to me, mate. It’s not that I support ISIS, or Indians shitting in the street. Every culture has its own crap to criticize, even their own evil or barbarity they perpetrate, and this even includes the Western ones, for better or worse. It’s not like I’m some totally naive idealistic hippie who wants to open the floodgates and borders of the West towards millions and millions of Indians, Africans, Middle Eastern Arabs, third world citizens and the like. But where these people have a truly high watermark their culture reached, or are touched by God, or by transcendental truth, or what you will, I’m as if forced to respect and give credit for that.
>>23558399Both Jesus & Muhammad represent two terrible facets in mankind: one is geared towards a kind of oversocialized hubric universal humanism with Jews at the center ('salvation comes by way of the Jews' John 4:29) whereas the other is a warlord savage. As someone who has encountered and interacted with "love everything, man" hippies, there's a sense of insincerity and unreality in what they have to say, especially as they dabble in New Age feel-good nonsense with whatever ulterior purposes they possess. The Muhammadan, himself, is easier to understand in his lack of pretense and direct, immediate barbarity. The Buddha, on the other hand, was a truly genuinely honorable man. Not once did Jewsus or M*hummad said "think for yourself, be your own judge, free inquiry" such as the Pali canon's Kalama Sutta. Jewsus and M*hummad demand blind obedience, and Jewsus was a massive hypocrite and racist towards the Canaanites in a way that would make even Stormtards blush (literally called one of their women dogs Matthew 15:21-28). Muhammad, himself, was also a sick bastard, beheading people in Banu Qurayza. Of course, Jewdaism is also a garbage tradition without a single beautiful thing in the entirety of its wretched tradition, Moses most likely neither existing or just being your typical subversive figure.There is absolutely no such thing as a truly good Christtard or Mudslime. Both are blind and force obedience onto others; moreover, both are responsible for the destruction of the natural world and ethnic cohesion, the vilification and destruction of tree worshiping cults that were ubiquitous in the ancient world and the demonization of the preference of one's ethnic company. No other tradition but the Abrahamic ones gloats about destroying trees, calling them "idols", or emphasizes the the special chosen status of various ethnicities. It is odd that Abrahamism is simultaneously both universalistic and pro-Semites at the same time. Not once did Buddha say, "Enlightenment comes by way of people of Indian descent." Buddhism coexisted with paganism and indigenous cultures of the East for a reason -- their scripts didn't change, they didn't see a foreign "holy land", and so on.Historically speaking, Buddhists of pretty much all races existed, and Buddhists have had a lot of variation in beliefs. The form of Buddhism that was large among Nordic/Finnic-like people (Yuezhi) and Iranian peoples was Sarvastivadin Buddhism. There's no excuse in choosing an Abrahamic path over either the Dharma or pagan ones anymore.I curse the Holy Spirit every day, I curse Christ & Moses & Ali every day, I place superior idols before Alllah and rip Allah into shredds, and so on. Icchantika who still prefer their Abrahamic delusions will suffer for endless kalpas.Trees possess Buddhanature, your dumb Jew on a stick or Bedouin savage is the opposite of Buddhanature -- it is narakanature and forms a black vortex that sucks up all meaning in the immanent world.
>>23558473
>>23558473agreed, but what about the desert fathers
>>23558213>It doesn't directly have to do with its truth.Well they've moved on. It's more efficient to promise an earthly egalitarian stasis than a heavenly one which involves dying first and your oppressors getting their just desserts in a hellish afterlife. The equality promised by Christianity is still too bigoted, it does exclude non-believers and homosexuals and whoever else. It isn't as useful to control as it was in the past>>23558390This is an important point—the Buddhism peddled by secular elite or managerial types is an impoverished and deracinated version of the religion reduced to therapeutic exercises, which by themselves are not "Buddhist." Counting your breath because you are stressed out by living in a cubicle is not Buddhism, it's just an anti-unionizing thing
>>23558180Classic anti-intellectual talking point, it's so boring. Why search for the truth for yourself when you can just sit on a fence and remain ignorant? Wouldn't want to offend anyone, would we?>>23558274>And Christian iconography and symbolism literally is centered around a person being brutally crucified, tortured to death in extreme pain on a cross.Jesus is real, those pagan gods aren't and celebrating the Lamb of God is different than celebrating war gods that pillaged and murdered. Jesus never cut anyone's head off and put it on a pike. That you conflate the two is absurd and shows you're insane.>I just think this is indicative of a certain shallowness and bigotry towards other cultures.Lol, okay, SJW.>you shouldn’t be surprised if there’s at least SOME pushback.When did I ever say I didn't expect it? Between us, if push came to shove, you'd probably kill me. Millions of my brothers and sisters were killed by people who think and talk just like you. You're just upset that someone comes along and definitively states "this is the truth and everyone else is wrong" because it's not worldly, it's not ecumenical, it doesn't get along with a sinful and evil world and their lies, but shines light on them and exposes them as lies. James 4:4>I think you’re programmed and conditioned in a way that’s not entirely correct or healthy. Projection, lol. Go cry about "bigotry" now and claim you're not programmed, lmao.>When some of them may very well be as saintly as any Christian saint.Not even close. Righteousness only comes from Christ.>>23558380>Sufis who also have said, ..., “We ARE Christians; we attempt to follow Christ’s teachings>Even Buddhists have revered Christ and His teachings. Not a sustainable position.Like the apostates and atheists who will say "I like Christ's teachings" but they ignore he claimed to be God and would rise from the dead (and did) and that he plainly said he's the only way to the Father (and that's not a pope/patriarch/priest/etc, it's God). >>23558399>So, anyway, I myself no longer have some deeply engrained bias or prejudice in myself that makes me believe others of other religions, traditions, or cultures can’t come towards some authentically faithful understanding and appreciation of Christ Himself, or of what genuine Christian teachings areYeah... but you just change it entirely and remove/ignore many of Christ's teachings so he's a false and different christ which you can get along with. A worldly false christ that gets along with the world.Oh yeah, you guys always ignore all the preaching Jesus did on sin, judgment, and hell as well. Just as you ignored it in all of your posts, or that people must repent and believe the gospel; and you don't even have the gospel in any of your posts. >>23558473Buddha is dead, he can't do anything for all that hate in your heart. Clearly there's no reason to believe as you do if it produces very corrupt fruit.
The schizo protestant and the icchantika retard are a match made in Hell.
>>23558614I'm not a retard. All Abrahamists are icchantika because they point to salvation as being external from the mind. I point to the potential of liberation as being within much like Bodhidharma did.
based icchantika poster
The fedora-tipping Cathodox coward should just not post, he has nothing to add.
>>23557604>>23557622Obviously if you want to study 'New Age' from historical perspective I would suggest you to start with Guénon's two books:>Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion>The Spiritist FallacyAnd also Lee Penn's book:>False Dawn: The United Religions Initiative, Globalism, and the Quest for a One-World Religion There is also this documentary:The Age of Aquarius - The Age of Evilhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LEM4ZY0wfwObviously this documentary is from a Christian, almost "satanic panic" type of perspective, but it is quite spot on and introductory in regards to many 'New Age' topics and is good introduction to Blavatsky, Theosophical Society and how it evolved to the 'New Age' type of thinking.Theosophical Society is interesting study because they adopted/borrowed lots of 'Eastern' concepts from hinduism such as:>Karma>MahatmaAnd totally 'westernized' these concepts adding strange materialistic and evolutionist character to them. For some reason Blavatsky and the bunch were pro-Buddhists, but they had this extremely strange combination of Hindu terms with Buddhists and came up with tales of The Maha Chohan and combining Hindu and Buddhist terms together. The Theosophical 'Maitreya' is a name of Buddha, but it seems to be a syncretist combination of Christian eschatology and 'Doomsday Jesus' in a Buddhist exoteric shell. The leaders of T.S. like Blavatsky advocated for veganism etc. while devouring meat themselves etc.
>>23557674He was wrong about Gurdjieff.
>>23559152He never totally wrote Gurdjieff off but at first he advised others to be highly cautious of Gurdjieff and to stay away from him, due to the various elements in his teaching that resembled various spiritist and new-age frauds but then later in life he subsequently admitted that it was a real possibility that there was some valid spiritual teaching in Gurdjieff that was in line with Traditionalist metaphysics. Some Traditionalist wrote a book “Gurdjieff in light of Tradition” that explores how on a superficial surface level there are things that seem Blavatsky-like but on a deeper level there are valid teachings.
>>23559267Don't know what it's worth, but Aleister Crowley visited Gurdjieff and this account is given in the Confessions of Crowley: he does not put much weight to his visit to Gurdijeff. He writes something along the lines that Gurdjieff was ok, not brilliant, but a man who definitely had something going on. Crowley however describes Gurdijeff as being an "advanced adept" >"There is a persistent legend to the effect that they once met and engaged in some kind of magical contest or some sort of hostile confrontation, but this is almost certainly apocryphal. What is certain is, that during the 1920s, Crowley paid an unsolicited visit to Gurdjieff's school at Fountainbleu on Avon, but Gurdijeff was either not there or politely refused to see him, and Crowley was shown around by Major Pindar. Of this visit, Crowley wrote in his Magical Record:>'Gurdjieff, their prophet, seems a tip-top man. Heard more sense and insight than I've done for years. Pindar dines at 7.30. Oracle for my visit was "There are few men: there are enough". Later, a really wonderful evening with Pindar. Gurdjieff clearly a very advanced adept. My chief quarrels are over sex (I doubt whether Pindar understands Gurdijeff's true position) and their punishments, e.g. depriving the offender of a meal or making him stand half an hour with his arms out. Childish and morally valueless'.
>>23557604seraphim rose was a homosexual and would be another ortholarper posting on /lit/ had he been born a bit laterstop larping. we both know you don't believe in this nonsense
>>23557604It's extremely funny how jews are upset by buddhism
>>23557837>Because we love Truth. It may come off as paranoid but we just want everyone to know that you can't mix falsehood with truth as everyone in modernity is doing.if cared about truth you would not listen to a jew
>>23557604Buddhism is pretty much the opposite of "control">>23559373Buddhism is the most converted-to religion on the part of Jews.
>>23559410Bro, jews are the ultimate arbiters of truth, that’s why Jesus came to fulfil jewish prophecy.
>>23559414So you are saying it’s the opposite of being a Jew?
>>23558380>Even Buddhists have revered Christ and His teachings. Here is one example, speaking of the Lama Kazi Dawa-Samdup in the third-person from the perspective of Western scholar and traveler W.Y. Evan-Wentz (even while it admittedly criticizes the average exoteric beliefs on Christianity):tibetans have never been buddhist.And buddhists dont need nor care about abrahmism
>>23559417no, I'm saying it resonates so heavily with what Judaism is about that it is the religion Jews most often choose other than Judaism.
>>23559444So when Christians become Atheists is that because it resonates heavily with Christianity?
>>23559454do christians most often convert to atheism?
>>23558380>Many Christians have become Buddhists; not a single Buddhist becomes Christian.>A Christian missionary went with his Bible to see a Zen master. He started reading the Sermon on the Mount. Of course, that is the best part. In fact that’s all that Christianity is about.>He had read only one or two sentences when the Zen monk said, “Stop. Whoever the guy was, he was a bodhisattva.” – bodhisattva means in some future life he will become a buddha – “Be finished! These sentences are proof enough that in some future life this guy is going to become a buddha. But don’t be bothered with him, he is not a buddha right now – only a bodhisattva.”>Bodhisattva means essentially a buddha, but everybody is a bodhisattva essentially. You may take lives to make your essence actual; that depends on you, but you are a buddha. Not only you, the trees, the birds, even the dogs are essentially bodhisattvas. They may take a little longer, or maybe some intelligent dog rushes ahead and leaves you behind.>So that Zen master was not saying much, but the missionary was overjoyed. The story was being told all over in Christian churches that a Zen master had accepted Jesus; but the missionary did not understand the meaning of bodhisattva.>Bodhisattva does not mean buddha. Sattva means essence, potentially; but potentiality may always remain a potentiality – there is no necessity for a seed to become a tree. A seed may remain just a seed forever. There are types of seed; some seed may choose to sit upon a rock. You can go on meditating sitting on a rock, but you are not going to become a buddha. On a rock a seed will remain a seed.>So it was nothing much; that Zen master really joked with the missionary. He said, “Stop, enough! Those two lines are enough. Whosoever said it…” He did not even bother to ask who had said it. He said, “Whosoever has said it is a bodhisattva. Close the book – now talk business.”
>>23559474I think being a bodhisattva is preferable to pursuing becoming a Buddha.
>>23559300>Crowley arrived for a whole weekend and spent the time like any other visitor to the Prieuré; being shown the grounds and the activities in progress, listening to Gurdjieff’s music and his oracular conversation. Apart from some circumspection, Gurdjieff treated him like any other guest until the evening of his departure. After dinner on Sunday night, Gurdjieff led the way out of the dining room with Crowley, followed by the body of pupils who had also been at the meal. Crowley made his way toward the door and turned to take his leave of Gurdjieff, who by this time was some way up the stairs to the second floor. “Mister, you go?” Gurdjieff inquired. Crowley assented. “You have been guest?” —a fact which the visitor could hardly deny. “Now you go, you are no longer guest?” Crowley—no doubt wondering whether his host had lost his grip on reality and was wandering in a semantic wilderness—humored his mood by indicating that he was on his way back to Paris. But Gurdjieff, having made the point that he was not violating the canons of hospitality, changed on the instant into the embodiment of righteous anger. “You filthy,” he stormed, “you dirty inside! Never again you set foot in my house!” From his vantage point on the stairs, he worked himself up into a rage which quite transfixed his watching pupils. Crowley was stigmatized as the sewer of creation was taken apart and trodden into the mire. Finally, he was banished in the style of East Lynne by a Gurdjieff in fine histrionic form. Whitefaced and shaking, the Great Beast crept back to Paris with his tail between his legs.
>>23559463More specifically it's western liberalism and communism because that aligns more closely with jesus's teachings, atheism is just a part of it.
>>23559477Well, you're not in a position to evaluate either.
>>23559518I take it back. I think being a bodhisattva is precisely what being a Buddha is. Being a buddha in the abstract sense of a being who exists within pure enlightenment is not possible unless one ceases to exist. And ceasing to exist is impossible for sentient beings. Therefore, being a bodhisattva is being a buddha.
>>23559516Buddhism probably aligns the most heavily with Jesus's teachings. Western liberalism and communism are materially-based antidotes for reality, and do not confront the core nature of reality. They ignore it and try to impose an illusion over it. Jesus did not do this.
>>23559492This account by Webb was published in 1980, and cites no sources. Stanley Nott, who unlike Webb was a direct student of Gurdjieff’s and was present during Crowley’s visit, makes no mention of such an outburst from Gurdjieff. Lawrence Sutin (biographer of Crowley ) questions whether such an event took place: At any rate Webb at the time of writing his book was dealing with an encounter that took place over fifty years before; one wonders who his source was.There is one earlier account of Crowley and Gurdijeff meeting: which also is probably false. This was released in 1971:>Many years ago, Aleister Crowley, who had made a name for himself in England as “magician” and who boasted, among other things, of having hung his pregnant wife by the thumbs in the attempt to give birth to a monstrous being, presented himself at Fontainebleau without being invited. Crowley was clearly convinced that Gurdjieff was a “black magician” and the evident purpose of his visit was to challenge him to a sort of duel of magic. The meeting turned out to be a disappointment since Gurdjieff, although he did not deny knowledge of certain powers that could be called “magical”, refused to make any such demonstration. At his turn, Mr. Crowley also refused to “reveal” his powers; therefore, to the great disappointment of those present, they were not able to witness a supernatural feat. What’s more, Mr. Crowley went away with the impression that Gurdjieff was a charlatan or a mediocre sorcerer. (Gurdjieff Remembered, Samuel Weiser, 1971).Also the notion that Crowley thought Gurdjieff a “charlatan” is completely refuted by Crowley’s own words from his diary, referring to Gurdjieff as an “advanced adept”.For all things considered, it seems Gurdijeff and Crowley met: respected each other, but lost interest quick and went on their own ways.Conidering Crowley was a man to hold grudges over small matters he would not have praised Gurdijeff in his private diaries if they would have had some sort of "psychic battle" or whatever stories people come up with.
>>23559552Kek, keep coping, you don't know what either of those words mean in reality.
>>23559559Crowley is what happens when one is wise enough to confront meaninglessness but chooses hatred of reality as a response. He himself said that his ideas were formed when his father, whom he loved dearly, was taken from him at an early age. His death is when he first began to hate God and the world God made, in his own words.
>>23559562I know what the words mean, if you're implying that I do not embody them, true, I do not. That takes practice.
>>23559558Lol, what a joke, all Christianity does is provide comforting "solutions" to the ugly nature of reality, it tries to compensate for it by promising a better future just like those political ideologies.
>>23559565Crowley's philosophy-religious system of Thelema has nothing to do with "hating the god" or the "world he made". This sort of accusation is also made against Gnostics who are falsely believed for some “anti-cosmic world rejection” that has often been mistaken for mere dualism. Even Crowley's text confirm his stance on this matter, the Demiurge is not 'God' in an Absolute sense:>Tetragrammaton, the manifest creator, Jehovah.>He is called the Second in relation to that which is above the Abyss, comprehended under the title of the First.>But the vulgarians conceive of nothing beyond the creator, and therefore call him The First. He is really the Fourth, being in Chesed, and of course his nature is fourfold. This Four is conceived of as the Dyad multiplied by the Dyad; falsehood confirming falsehood.>Now at last he appears in the Gloom. He is a mighty King (This is the Jehovah-god of the Aeon of Osiris, on whose existence (as an offended and vengeful deity) the whole theory of Atonement depends.), with crown and orb and sceptre, and his robes are of purple and gold. And he casts down the orb and sceptre to the earth, and he tears off his crown, and throws it on the ground, and tramples it. And he tears out his hair, that is of ruddy gold tinged with silver, and he plucks at his beard, and cries with as terrible voice:>Woe unto me that am cast down from my place by the might of the new Aeon. For the ten palaces are broken, and the ten kings are carried away into bondage, and they are set to fight as the gladiators in the circus of him that hath laid his hand upon eleven.
This thread started with christcucks hating on buddhists and now they are trying to portray jesus as a buddha. Christcucks are pathetic.
>>23559559>muh sourcesWhy ruin a good story?>>23559559>For all things considered, it seems Gurdijeff and Crowley met: respected each other, but lost interest quick and went on their own ways.Cope.
>>23559571>is provide comforting "solutions" to the ugly nature of reality, it tries to compensate for it by promising a better future just like those political ideologies.Those political ideologies try to provide illusions, Jesus provided a way to maximize within reality; no illusions. What does your way of thinking provide?
>>23559684maximize well-being*
>>23559684Are you serious? Heaven is an illusion, Hell is an illusion. Jesus coming back is maximum cope.
>>23557604Because "Western spirituality" never was used as control, right?Christianity is literally a jewish psyop.
>>23557604Read Stoicism and Bhagavad-Gita. Fuck the bible, fuck the Quran for subhumans and fuck the useless Talmoud for inferior disgusting kikes who live in a delusional žid utopia in their minds.
>>23559693The cope is thinking nothing happens when you die. But all you can do is spout buzzwords and new age faggotry. Not like you have anything to say worth reading.
>>23559729>The cope is thinking nothing happens when you die.It's irrelevant if anything happens or not according to you since "jesus provided a way to maximize within reality" so why are christians isolating themselves and waiting for the end of the world?
>>23559748>>23559761You guys are schizophrenic retards who can't even form coherent thoughts relevant to what you're replying to.
>>23559762We broke him. Can't cope with reality?
>>23557604This exact OP has been posted several times over the last few years.
>>23559693Heaven and Hell are states of being. Jesus said as much. The Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Heaven, is within you. Those who sin, are cast into the lake of fire. Do not blame the misunderstandings of people, on Jesus. Understand what he was saying, instead.
>>23559828You are doing the same, creating your own interpretations from an obviously incomplete teaching.
>>23559592>nothing to do with "hating the god" or the "world he made">He is a mighty King (This is the Jehovah-god of the Aeon of Osiris, on whose existence (as an offended and vengeful deity) the whole theory of Atonement depends.), with crown and orb and sceptre, and his robes are of purple and gold. And he casts down the orb and sceptre to the earth, and he tears off his crown, and throws it on the ground, and tramples it. And he tears out his hair, that is of ruddy gold tinged with silver, and he plucks at his beard, and cries with as terrible voice:>Woe unto me that am cast down from my place by the might of the new Aeon.kfurther reading: >"I hated Jehovah and his temple, and all the hypocritical swine who profaned it." - Crowley, recalling his feelings following his father's death
>>23559846explain where it is incomplete
>>23559857No other religion has needed so many theologians to add so much to make up for the incompleteness.
>>23559765>What is a non-sequitur?See >>23559762
>>23557674He was right that the West is evil but it's because of its apostasy from Christ.
>>23559881It doesn't need theologians, God's word is so plain a 5 year old can understand it and be saved. The theologians are usually just there to defend false heretical Alexandrian priest cult heresies or their counterfeit texts or other false doctrines, and they'll spend more time theorizing and debating than actually living the faith. You're just naive, ignorant, and gullible; and that you judged God's Word for the ramblings of some "progressive" apostate proves it; which is just retarded and foolish to judge God's Word for man's word, it's not even logical; but you antichrist fools usually think nothing made everything and life came from nonlife and fish can become monkeys and monkeys can become man and boys can become women, so it's not like you're known for logic. Not that you even boldly and plainly stated your beliefs which you imply are complete, I'm sure you'll be eager to say what you don't believe in, but ashamed of your beliefs that you won't plainly state them out of fear of mockery as you mock others so ignorantly. Hell, most of you guys won't even speak ill of the "woke" agenda, or truth against their lies, in mixed company because someone might get offended or you might get fired. You're like the Muslim cowards who point to there being many bible versions and ignoring that point is already addressed by people who believe the traditional text bible.
>>23560359>Hell, most of you guys won't even speak ill of the "woke" agenda, or truth against their lies, in mixed company because someone might get offended or you might get fired.Autistic retard detected, no random person you work with cares that you hate trannies
